Fun Fact: (If the Auburn V12 Engine had been 8L it probably would’ve caught Cadillac’s attention intern they would’ve replaced the 175 HP V16 Engine with the 200 HP V12 Engine) P.S: (Auburn 8L V12 Engine 200 HP & 540 NM Of Torque)
@@MobyTheMerpup1852 In Australia? Sorry about that. I thought you were one of these Techies in this country trying to be politically correct. Yes, the Auburn V12 had the edge in power and torque, but to Cadillac, putting somebody else's engine in their car would have been "horrifying" almost akin to the end of the world!
@@ftffighter all usa/Canada spec dodge/Chrysler/FCA eagle/3d/4th gen-V8's ( not up on Europe's or Asian v8's in general unless it's a copy*/modified* of the USA marketing/sales ) have that( to my knowledge as the modern version's need it to pass EPA, mine is for reliability's and more power/MPG or at least feel-good's/looks'* ) as well as a opinion( k-casting pre-1967~car's ( some were not drilled/tap'd or plugged off for dealership's-delivery ( or later owner's cap'd it-off probably to save $$ or harder time finding replacement valve-covers-ect, some 1966 car ended up with 1970's heads for this reason and or car-crashes unfortunately happens ect ) car's boats have to have it for coast-guard ect requirements, same way's for 1st-generation hemi's but my knowledge is mostly around 2g and 440's/383-B's or Chevy's-v8's/SBC* or Germany/japan-rotary's* ) have it and D-8's need extra work but metal is in the correct placement's, for example ~1970~street's don't have anything for it ( dodge was considering it for EPA or moving into the doomsday-head's( 4-valve pre-cylinder ) or ball-stud( ford's/Chevy's-BBC-1970~ copy*ish designed ) types to pass for 1977~ or us to turbine+better transmission( + better fuel-systems that was computerised, but that also was considered for the rest of the power-train lines but the 1957~ car's soured that ideas as those-vin's got recalled-ect ) like lock-up and 6-speed ultimately a mistake as much as i like high-end-trim's v8's as 1960~up turbine is the king and longer term better ROI ( id have kept the SBM/1st/poly-V8 and deleted flat-6 and slant-6 and AMC-6 ect as casting ect SBM can do entry-trimming to mid~trimming and mid-halo-trimming is (hemi/buying-packer's-V8-packaging/licensed-manufacturing/final-assembled if the plant isn't ready yet for mass production ) turbine aimed at 200-1200hp ) and more possible power/reliability's-ect ) but possible to weld/mod but $$/and-or-pain so not done on them ect ) on pre-1972~ hemi's and 440's generally there industrial-spec or marine or racing-spec my D8( repop'd-aka not original pre-1980 and or modified 383-parts-ect, 12in-deck big-block 4.3X4.5in-stroke ) is being setup to running modern EFI and twin-plugs and DI-injections pan/bed-plate-reinforcements look's like a 1968~SS(8in bread-pan ) but act's as a dry-sump
@spaceace1006you mean all 56 of them ;) though the fouling caused by the high amount of lead in the 145 octane fuel meant you were constantly changing them regardless. Which means all 336 of them in the B-36 for example
To add: Although they started to fade away in the 1980s, you couldn't stand in the countryside at night for long without hearing the distinctive sound of a Detroit 71-series jake braking. Often from several miles away.
@@somerandomgoogleuser3374 Greyhound, Trailways, TNM&O add most of the Intercity Transit buses for a few decades. The Detroit 71 series is the background noise of America in the last half of the 20th century.
I noticed that, too. was aware of flathead V8 conversions, I suppose this would be the next logical step... if you happen to have a spare Lincoln V12 in your barn.😁
@@JamesDierken I agree. They were designed to be light weight tractors. I don't think that got to sketchy until they were forced to handle about 30hp. My brother saw this video and dropped me a note he had seen and talked to a guy that owned a Lincoln converted N. He said it ran so smooth you could stand a cigarette on the block and rev it up and never topple the cig.
Have you ever heard a Deltic Diesel? I think you guys had one in New York in a fire pump, Brits put them on trains, and everyone else put them in MTBs. The power/noise level is glorious 😀
In addition to the Falconer, there is another 90 degree V12 based on "LS" series GM small-block components and architecture, but while the base engine is American the V12 is from an Australian company: Race Cast.
1:31 Aka 25 HP and also I have a big fan of your work. I just wanted to come here and say thank you for making that awesome video about the VR8 an engine that powered the most infamous card to ever hit cinema in 1961. I mean, sure it wasn’t about thee VR8, but I still loved it and I still do to this day.
V-series detroits also came with a V-6 version. 6V71 and 6V92. and the V-12 wasnt the only one referred to as a "screaming jimmy", all the 2 stroke detroits screamed like crazy. had to drive them like you were pissed off at them so they would build crazy power, the reason they made so much noise. fun fact, they were built so they could be bolted together so you could make any number of cylinders you wanted, also were built so rotation could be reversed. made dual and quad engine boats more balanced with each side being counter rotating from the other.
My Dad had an old Continental. He was always convinced that the carburetion or timing was off and had several other guys look at it. I'm pretty sure it was just a dog. It wasn't made to be in a car unless you wanted your car to drive like a 1940s OTR truck. I'm pretty sure it was a marketing gimmick.
Jay Leno has a 1959 Imperial that was a "dog" and he found out during a rebuild that the distributor had been installed 1 tooth retarded at some point in the distant past.
Cadillac makes huge V8s too. Americans just ups displacement when they can't put more cylinders, for eg :- The GMC Suburban Yukon had an 8.1l V8, as ridiculous as it sounds, it has more than 1l per cyl, which means a 4cyl LJ80 with total of 0.8l engine size is smaller than a single cyl of Suburban's engine.
Which is funny because we got the Viper V10 as well, and it too is a massive unit. If we include the one from the 5th gen Vipers, it sits at 8.4 liters of displacement.
Great Storytelling of the wonderful stuff. Appreciate the content, Best Regards from Alaska! ( Yeah I admit I own one of the screaming Detroit 2 stroke diesels in a private Tracked vehicle called a Foremost Nodwell )
That's a 6-71 that you're showing for the 12V-71 in the first few shots. The later ones are 12V's. Interesting to see the Falconer V-12. It's always been a custom-built thing, but he's still making them. I met Ryan Falconer briefly at the 2000 Miami Boat Show where I was showing the Torque Engineering V-12. We had a nice conversation, engine guy to wannabe engine guy. Ryan was deep into development of his engine for the Thunder Mustang at the time and said his engine had made 50 hours of durability testing with the prop and gearbox.
Steve Morris Engines was involved in a full custom V12 build. From what I recall, there were 2 built and one was running on the dyno. Also don't forget the Ardema - Braun land speed engine but this was a one or two off. .
Always love your uploads, also this one. But i can address a little flaw(no bother at all of course!). The gm 12v71 part starts with a single four valve 671 and a dual four valve 671. Is that on purpose? Maybe an idea for a future upload? The historie of the 2 stroke diesel engines in trucks? Keep going with the so nice worked out uploads. Thumbs up from the Netherlands!
There is a GMC 702 "Twin Six" powered fire truck parked near the Oakland Park, Florida city hall. It is close to Funky Buddha brewery. I'm not sure of the owner or if they drive the truck much. I'd love to buy it!
The segrave v12 appears to be designed to have a couple turbos bolted to it . They seem to be a perfect fit. If you can't get more compression, get some boost.😮
The Continental AV1790 was used in tanks and other vehicles with tracks, so I don't consider it an automotive engine. Also, the production of the GMC V12 started in 1960. Thanks for the video.
Up until now there were 3 engines that could be readily Id'd (to the average joe)from their sound alone. The Flathead, 348/409-427, and the Scream'en Jimmy. To me there isn't an engine that will ever sound better in a Rig than a Detroit.
In the days before automatic transmissions, high-torque V12s made sense. The driver could , in many cases, take off from a standing start in high gear. This made for a smoother ride for the passenger(s).
There are many more V12 engine designs, even from North America, than V10 designs. However, the vast numbers of Ford Triton 6.8 L V10 engines built for medium-duty trucks and motorhomes over two decades means that there were probably more V10 engines than V12 engines built (at least for road vehicles) in North America. A V12 with a 60 degree bank angle is an inherently more sensible engine design than a V10, but the realities of limited space available for engine length and the economy of sharing a bank angle with a V8 design make V12's impractical in most cases.
@@curtisnoble. Pretty sure a few 3412s found their way into Trucks over the years. Heck the 3406 was a very popular engine in its day, why not two of them?
@@curtisnoble. Its not about wanting Detroit vs Cat, its the sheer size and weight of the 3400 series. A 3412 is nearly twice the displacement of a 12-71, they also weigh over 6000lbs dry. They are just kind of overkill for anything this side of some specialized super heavy haul stuff. A fun bit of overkill for trucking shows but not practical for everyday use. Much like those 16-71 swaps and stuff.
The Cheçz Republic has a V 12 that's 5.5 x5.5 full circle crank and runs on 87 octane and has 1000 HP hemi type heads all aluminum billet heads and block you built intake of your choice . This one went into a Warlock replacing twin 572's .
I was not aware of the Continental AV1790 before this video. Given how much I have seen and read about old engines lately, and how interesting this combinations of features is (a V from Continental, an air-cooled diesel, shaft and bevel gear driven overhead camshafts on a large engine, etc) that's an accomplishment. 😁 It was apparently a very common tank engine, but I'm not that interested in tanks...
The Auburn/LaFrance engine's narrow bank angle (45 degrees, instead of the 60 degrees which results in equal firing intervals in a V12) is shown in the specifications, but strangely never discussed. This was presumably done to enable the use of the goofy single camshaft and direct (without pushrods) rocker valve actuation. The 75 degree bank angle of the Lincoln V12 and 80 degree bank angle of the Pierce-Arrow/Seagrave V12 are not narrow, as claimed at 5:56 and 7:26; they are wide for V12 engines. Perhaps in the Lincoln it was some sort of compromise between the familiar 90 degrees of Ford's V8 and the 60 degrees that it should have been. The larger Seagrave engine is at 45 degrees (as shown in the sign at 8:31), so clearly it is substantially different from the Pierce Arrow engine... and this time, it's narrower than ideal. The theme seems to be that North Americans - other than GM - didn't understand that a V12 should have a 60 degree bank angle.
The bank angle is often chosen due to various other reasons, such as packaging. I am sure the engineers did know the math of even firing intervals, many European vee engines were beyond ideal bank angles as well
@@VisioRacer Yes, I agree - there are reasons for each bank angle choice, and my crack about not understanding the correct bank angle was intended to be humourous (and apparently failed). But 75 and 80 degrees are not "narrow" for a V12. The Auburn/LaFrance was at 45 degrees to make the valvetrain work. The Falconer is at 90 degrees to use a V8 block design. The Cadillac was at 45 degrees because it was a cut-down V16. The rest are probably packaging compromises.
VisioRacer, I'm curious about the wide variety of V angles in these engines. I would have expected V12's to default to 60° like V6's. Perhaps you (maybe in coordination with Driving4Answers) would be able to do a video on why so many were chosen. Was it firing order, packaging, something else?
Yes... firing intervals (not order), packaging into available space, accommodation for odd valvetrain configuration, commonality with another engine (such as a 90 degree V8) for production, etc.
You forgot Falconer from Salinas California , uses off the shelf Chevy moving parts . Billet aluminum block heads intake and steel crank and cam made by Falconer . Multiple engine sizes available on request 680cid was largest and 475 was smallest . There was one cobra replica wheelbase stretched 6" to accommodate v12 .
When I was 19 I bought a 1987 Renault Alliance L five door hatchback that was ugly as hell and came with a 1.7L four cylinder with a three speed auto trans for $150. I had it up over 100 MPH many times and it wanted to go faster, I just didn't feel safe. It's sad that those large displacement V12s could only produce enough power to push those vehicles to 100 MPH, but that was really fast for those days when the Model T only made like 40 HP.
Sorry but you didn't include Detroit 12v 92 series or 12v144 series, or was it 12v 141 ,haven't seen one in a few years, mostly for generators use i believe, but thanks, i found it informative
A pushrod V8 can achieve huge displacement with forced induction you've got serious power.. the extra mechanical complexity of a V12 really makes little to no sense. But I love V12s, they're mechanical marvels and everyone should own one.
@@PistonAvatarGuy Smoother too, because the more cylinders an engine has, the smoother the power delivery and general response becomes. My favorite analogy I like to use is one in which involves hiring workers to build a house. The more people that assist and help complete the project, the sooner it's done and the less effort there is in terms of work.
@TheSilverShadow17 sure but we are already talking about 8 its not like 4 vs 8 if you are talking about 12 the difference is every 90° vs every 60° it's not a big difference
I mean is that a bad thing that we like having engines that produce more low end grunt considering what we put them through on average? Plus with how big and wide our roads are we want to save fuel without compromising torque.
@TheSilverShadow17 Not at all. I love my low end torque! I don't like waiting to wind an engine out to get horsepower. I like having my torque as quickly as possible. Also , I don't think anybody in the US cares about fuel economy. Look at all of the compensators and bro-dozers on the road...
I wish I could get a GM LS type version of the V-12 or a Ford version of the V8 quad cam engine. That would be soon cool, but I am dreaming. I love muscle cars but there is almost nowhere you can drive them to their full extent safely. If you join a car club which sometimes rents private racetrack to let their members go out an have fun without endangering the public as these IDIOTS do on freeways. At 63, I often wonder why young men are so reckless with their lives when they have so many good years left to live. Not to sound like a Puritan, I was one of those who raced anything that went fast, starting with moto-x in the 4th grade. I am paying fit it now in droves but...honestly, given the chance to go back...YES, I would do it all over again only better. Oh, sweet Testosterone 😋 It's so great to be a young man.
I can't believe how thick the cylinder walls are on that seagrave V12 holy cow.No wonder the engine weighs 2300 pounds. Reliable though. As in It will last forever..
People like to shit on american machinery for being "low-tech" "ancient" "agricultural", but at least that type of engineering requires minimal upkeep and will generally keep running.
It’s only the Americans could get such a tiny, minuscule amount of power out of an 8 litre V12. That’s what sticking with a VERY agricultural style of engineering does to a country.
Nah, the europeans could do it too. Notice how most of these engines were intended for heavy duty truck usage, and the rest were 1930s Luxury cars running 5:1 compression ratios. Let me list a few highly advanced and efficient european V12s from the same period that make sooo much more power: Horch 670 (german), 120hp from 6.0L Maybach DS7 (german), 150hp from 7.0L Maybach DS8, 200hp from 8.0L Hispano Suiza J12 (spanish?swiss?french?), 220hp from 9.4L or 250hp from 11.3L Rolls-Royce Phantom III (england), ~180hp from a 7.4L As you can see the european equivalents of those american engines really made no more power from similarly massive displacements.
Power means nothing without the torque figures, first. Second, most large displacement high cylinder count engines are high torque and low revving, meant for high torque low revving applications
Nothing like a foreigner covering American v-12s. Do you know why Ferraris have v-12s? Because Enzo fell in love with his buddy's v-12 Packard! V-12s are a luxury. And who's the richest country on earth?
There's also a Cadillac V12 derived from the first iteration of the Cadillac V16, it was produced from 1930 to 1937.
My uncle used to own a Cadillac V12 many years ago. He graduated from the Naval Academy in 1940,
Fun Fact: (If the Auburn V12 Engine had been 8L it probably would’ve caught Cadillac’s attention intern they would’ve replaced the 175 HP V16 Engine with the 200 HP V12 Engine)
P.S: (Auburn 8L V12 Engine 200 HP & 540 NM Of Torque)
@@MobyTheMerpup1852 We measure torque in FT. LBS., not NM.
@@jamesbosworth4191 400 foot pounds of torque then.
Give or take a bit of rounding up also Australia is getting too hot for my comfort.
@@MobyTheMerpup1852 In Australia? Sorry about that. I thought you were one of these Techies in this country trying to be politically correct. Yes, the Auburn V12 had the edge in power and torque, but to Cadillac, putting somebody else's engine in their car would have been "horrifying" almost akin to the end of the world!
Twenty-four spark plugs! To the mechanic: "I think i have a misfire . . . ."
my hemi has 16 spark plugs
@@warringwarthog What year? My 2005 AMG M113 has 16 as well
replace them all at the same time or you may end up chasing misfires (you'll fix one and then another goes bad because of wear)
@@ftffighter all usa/Canada spec dodge/Chrysler/FCA eagle/3d/4th gen-V8's ( not up on Europe's or Asian v8's in general unless it's a copy*/modified* of the USA marketing/sales ) have that( to my knowledge as the modern version's need it to pass EPA, mine is for reliability's and more power/MPG or at least feel-good's/looks'* ) as well as a opinion( k-casting pre-1967~car's ( some were not drilled/tap'd or plugged off for dealership's-delivery ( or later owner's cap'd it-off probably to save $$ or harder time finding replacement valve-covers-ect, some 1966 car ended up with 1970's heads for this reason and or car-crashes unfortunately happens ect ) car's boats have to have it for coast-guard ect requirements, same way's for 1st-generation hemi's but my knowledge is mostly around 2g and 440's/383-B's or Chevy's-v8's/SBC* or Germany/japan-rotary's* ) have it and D-8's need extra work but metal is in the correct placement's, for example ~1970~street's don't have anything for it ( dodge was considering it for EPA or moving into the doomsday-head's( 4-valve pre-cylinder ) or ball-stud( ford's/Chevy's-BBC-1970~ copy*ish designed ) types to pass for 1977~ or us to turbine+better transmission( + better fuel-systems that was computerised, but that also was considered for the rest of the power-train lines but the 1957~ car's soured that ideas as those-vin's got recalled-ect ) like lock-up and 6-speed ultimately a mistake as much as i like high-end-trim's v8's as 1960~up turbine is the king and longer term better ROI ( id have kept the SBM/1st/poly-V8 and deleted flat-6 and slant-6 and AMC-6 ect as casting ect SBM can do entry-trimming to mid~trimming and mid-halo-trimming is (hemi/buying-packer's-V8-packaging/licensed-manufacturing/final-assembled if the plant isn't ready yet for mass production ) turbine aimed at 200-1200hp ) and more possible power/reliability's-ect ) but possible to weld/mod but $$/and-or-pain so not done on them ect ) on pre-1972~ hemi's and 440's generally there industrial-spec or marine or racing-spec
my D8( repop'd-aka not original pre-1980 and or modified 383-parts-ect, 12in-deck big-block 4.3X4.5in-stroke ) is being setup to running modern EFI and twin-plugs and DI-injections pan/bed-plate-reinforcements look's like a 1968~SS(8in bread-pan ) but act's as a dry-sump
@spaceace1006you mean all 56 of them ;) though the fouling caused by the high amount of lead in the 145 octane fuel meant you were constantly changing them regardless. Which means all 336 of them in the B-36 for example
Best channel to learn about obscure engine tech
Agreed. A lot of impressive research in these uploads...
Deep State is everywhare !
Visioracer would find his way to find the most obscure engine and vehicle. I love it
Screaming JIMMY was more the name for all of the 2 stroke Detroits. The V12's typically were called Buzzin' Dozen or Rocky Mountain Hummingbird
To add: Although they started to fade away in the 1980s, you couldn't stand in the countryside at night for long without hearing the distinctive sound of a Detroit 71-series jake braking. Often from several miles away.
Weren't they in the Greyhound Buses???
@@somerandomgoogleuser3374 Greyhound, Trailways, TNM&O add most of the Intercity Transit buses for a few decades. The Detroit 71 series is the background noise of America in the last half of the 20th century.
@@stanwbaker Agreed. The 2001 OSHKOSH M978 HEMTT had a 8V92TA in it. Many military vehicles still have them in them.
@@stanwbaker Thank you!
I'd love to get an in person look at that Lincoln V12 in a Ford 8N tractor.
I noticed that, too. was aware of flathead V8 conversions, I suppose this would be the next logical step... if you happen to have a spare Lincoln V12 in your barn.😁
8N's are sketchy with the stock 4 cylinder, so I'd be scared to drive one with a V12 in it.
@@JamesDierken I agree. They were designed to be light weight tractors. I don't think that got to sketchy until they were forced to handle about 30hp. My brother saw this video and dropped me a note he had seen and talked to a guy that owned a Lincoln converted N. He said it ran so smooth you could stand a cigarette on the block and rev it up and never topple the cig.
As for early v12 consider Packard Twin 6. V12s were used for smoothness and silent running and torque in early classics. Thank for the video.
American V8 and apparently also V12 Engines are the best machine known to mankind to convert fuel to noise without the side effect of power
Have you ever heard a Deltic Diesel?
I think you guys had one in New York in a fire pump, Brits put them on trains, and everyone else put them in MTBs. The power/noise level is glorious 😀
@@mor4y most of us engine nerds love the Napier Deltic. What a sound those make
We got a few in locos as well
look when they were made, fuel back then had negative octan levels.
yup, and crazy torque too
@@vladimirmihnev9702 And those compression ratios achievable by blowing gently into a bottle
The 12V71 or any of the V12 Detroit diesel engines are on my bucket list for engines to experience in person. The good ol' "Buzzin' Dozen".
In addition to the Falconer, there is another 90 degree V12 based on "LS" series GM small-block components and architecture, but while the base engine is American the V12 is from an Australian company: Race Cast.
The blue semi with the long stacks sounded amazing!
1:31 Aka 25 HP and also I have a big fan of your work.
I just wanted to come here and say thank you for making that awesome video about the VR8 an engine that powered the most infamous card to ever hit cinema in 1961.
I mean, sure it wasn’t about thee VR8, but I still loved it and I still do to this day.
I'm used to American V8s. But there's something about a small displacement multiple cylinder engine. Like a 4 or 5 liter V10 or V12
Small? That's large. 3L would be awesome
5:06
Cotter pins in the mains and rod bolts! That is cool! I never knew that about the Packard!
V-series detroits also came with a V-6 version. 6V71 and 6V92. and the V-12 wasnt the only one referred to as a "screaming jimmy", all the 2 stroke detroits screamed like crazy. had to drive them like you were pissed off at them so they would build crazy power, the reason they made so much noise. fun fact, they were built so they could be bolted together so you could make any number of cylinders you wanted, also were built so rotation could be reversed. made dual and quad engine boats more balanced with each side being counter rotating from the other.
The 2 stroke Detroit diesel engines are awesome at turning fuel into a beautiful screaming noise.
Wow a flat head V12 lol that's why I watch Visio idc what engine I just wanna learn
My Dad had an old Continental. He was always convinced that the carburetion or timing was off and had several other guys look at it. I'm pretty sure it was just a dog. It wasn't made to be in a car unless you wanted your car to drive like a 1940s OTR truck. I'm pretty sure it was a marketing gimmick.
Jay Leno has a 1959 Imperial that was a "dog" and he found out during a rebuild that the distributor had been installed 1 tooth retarded at some point in the distant past.
American car manufacturers: The V12 is unnecessarily complicated, too long, we already have our great V8s, no need for more.
Cadilac: So here's a V16.
Cadillac makes huge V8s too.
Americans just ups displacement when they can't put more cylinders, for eg :- The GMC Suburban Yukon had an 8.1l V8, as ridiculous as it sounds, it has more than 1l per cyl, which means a 4cyl LJ80 with total of 0.8l engine size is smaller than a single cyl of Suburban's engine.
@@johndavidson3424 Can get the 496ci (8.1) in an Avalanche too!
@johndavidson3424 but the 8.1 was only available in 3/4 ton Suburbans, and was pretty uncommon, most had the 6.0l
@@Texassince1836 IC, didn't know the 8.1ls were rare, I would prefer the huge 3/4ton Suburban with the 8.1l N.A gas V8 engine opt. though.
Which is funny because we got the Viper V10 as well, and it too is a massive unit. If we include the one from the 5th gen Vipers, it sits at 8.4 liters of displacement.
Your videos NEVER disappoint amd always inform
Great Storytelling of the wonderful stuff. Appreciate the content, Best Regards from Alaska! ( Yeah I admit I own one of the screaming Detroit 2 stroke diesels in a private Tracked vehicle called a Foremost Nodwell )
That's a 6-71 that you're showing for the 12V-71 in the first few shots. The later ones are 12V's.
Interesting to see the Falconer V-12. It's always been a custom-built thing, but he's still making them. I met Ryan Falconer briefly at the 2000 Miami Boat Show where I was showing the Torque Engineering V-12. We had a nice conversation, engine guy to wannabe engine guy. Ryan was deep into development of his engine for the Thunder Mustang at the time and said his engine had made 50 hours of durability testing with the prop and gearbox.
Since he was talking about the history of the series 1st I think that might be intentional.
Steve Morris Engines was involved in a full custom V12 build. From what I recall, there were 2 built and one was running on the dyno. Also don't forget the Ardema - Braun land speed engine but this was a one or two off. .
@@Kalvinjj Yes, VisioRacer doesn't make mistakes like that, and I thought it was weird.
Always love your uploads, also this one. But i can address a little flaw(no bother at all of course!). The gm 12v71 part starts with a single four valve 671 and a dual four valve 671. Is that on purpose? Maybe an idea for a future upload? The historie of the 2 stroke diesel engines in trucks? Keep going with the so nice worked out uploads. Thumbs up from the Netherlands!
The second was actually a quad arrangement. But these were explaining the initial offerings before the V engines were offered.
There is a GMC 702 "Twin Six" powered fire truck parked near the Oakland Park, Florida city hall. It is close to Funky Buddha brewery. I'm not sure of the owner or if they drive the truck much. I'd love to buy it!
A life spent making mistakes is not only more honourable but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing.
The segrave v12 appears to be designed to have a couple turbos bolted to it . They seem to be a perfect fit. If you can't get more compression, get some boost.😮
The Continental AV1790 was used in tanks and other vehicles with tracks, so I don't consider it an automotive engine. Also, the production of the GMC V12 started in 1960.
Thanks for the video.
Licoln Zephyr V12 was also a beast , super smooth power 🤌
Used to work with a guy who owned a 1939 and a 1940 Lincoln Continental.
Cadillac had a V12 😁 little brother of the V16 (?) 😊
Up until now there were 3 engines that could be readily Id'd (to the average joe)from their sound alone. The Flathead, 348/409-427, and the Scream'en Jimmy. To me there isn't an engine that will ever sound better in a Rig than a Detroit.
Great episode.
Wasn't aware we had even fiddled around with 12 cylinders. Genuinely thought we stopped at the V-10. Very interesting.
dude we even did V16s
In the days before automatic transmissions, high-torque V12s made sense. The driver could , in many cases, take off from a standing start in high gear. This made for a smoother ride for the passenger(s).
Most American v12s are just two v6s
There are many more V12 engine designs, even from North America, than V10 designs. However, the vast numbers of Ford Triton 6.8 L V10 engines built for medium-duty trucks and motorhomes over two decades means that there were probably more V10 engines than V12 engines built (at least for road vehicles) in North America.
A V12 with a 60 degree bank angle is an inherently more sensible engine design than a V10, but the realities of limited space available for engine length and the economy of sharing a bank angle with a V8 design make V12's impractical in most cases.
@@alexstromberg7696 The GMC TwinSix is the only example of that; the rest are unrelated to any V6.
What a great video. I never knew there were so many. I believe Cat also made some V12s.
As generators
And V16's
@@curtisnoble. Pretty sure a few 3412s found their way into Trucks over the years. Heck the 3406 was a very popular engine in its day, why not two of them?
@@mrspandel5737 mainly because of people wanted a V12 they would’ve went with the 12v71/92 same with the 3408. More people went with the 8v71/92
@@curtisnoble. Its not about wanting Detroit vs Cat, its the sheer size and weight of the 3400 series. A 3412 is nearly twice the displacement of a 12-71, they also weigh over 6000lbs dry. They are just kind of overkill for anything this side of some specialized super heavy haul stuff. A fun bit of overkill for trucking shows but not practical for everyday use. Much like those 16-71 swaps and stuff.
The Cheçz Republic has a V 12 that's 5.5 x5.5 full circle crank and runs on 87 octane and has 1000 HP hemi type heads all aluminum billet heads and block you built intake of your choice . This one went into a Warlock replacing twin 572's .
I just got back from the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise and I recognized some of the footage in your video as Michigan Route 1 Woodward Avenue
I was not aware of the Continental AV1790 before this video. Given how much I have seen and read about old engines lately, and how interesting this combinations of features is (a V from Continental, an air-cooled diesel, shaft and bevel gear driven overhead camshafts on a large engine, etc) that's an accomplishment. 😁
It was apparently a very common tank engine, but I'm not that interested in tanks...
Corvair 140hp air cleaner @ :50
I swear I could smell the tire smoke from that roadster 😊
Thanks again
The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but reveal to them their own.
How do you find this stuff? What resources could you possibly be using!?
It's only a guess, but Wikipedia and the references cited in Wikipedia, plus Old Machine Press for big and old engines, would be a good start
The universe is transformation; our life is what our thoughts make it.
Very enjoyable - though I noted the omission of the Cadillac V-12 from the 1930s.
The Auburn/LaFrance engine's narrow bank angle (45 degrees, instead of the 60 degrees which results in equal firing intervals in a V12) is shown in the specifications, but strangely never discussed. This was presumably done to enable the use of the goofy single camshaft and direct (without pushrods) rocker valve actuation.
The 75 degree bank angle of the Lincoln V12 and 80 degree bank angle of the Pierce-Arrow/Seagrave V12 are not narrow, as claimed at 5:56 and 7:26; they are wide for V12 engines. Perhaps in the Lincoln it was some sort of compromise between the familiar 90 degrees of Ford's V8 and the 60 degrees that it should have been.
The larger Seagrave engine is at 45 degrees (as shown in the sign at 8:31), so clearly it is substantially different from the Pierce Arrow engine... and this time, it's narrower than ideal.
The theme seems to be that North Americans - other than GM - didn't understand that a V12 should have a 60 degree bank angle.
The bank angle is often chosen due to various other reasons, such as packaging. I am sure the engineers did know the math of even firing intervals, many European vee engines were beyond ideal bank angles as well
@@VisioRacer Yes, I agree - there are reasons for each bank angle choice, and my crack about not understanding the correct bank angle was intended to be humourous (and apparently failed). But 75 and 80 degrees are not "narrow" for a V12.
The Auburn/LaFrance was at 45 degrees to make the valvetrain work.
The Falconer is at 90 degrees to use a V8 block design.
The Cadillac was at 45 degrees because it was a cut-down V16.
The rest are probably packaging compromises.
VisioRacer, I'm curious about the wide variety of V angles in these engines. I would have expected V12's to default to 60° like V6's. Perhaps you (maybe in coordination with Driving4Answers) would be able to do a video on why so many were chosen. Was it firing order, packaging, something else?
Yes...
firing intervals (not order), packaging into available space, accommodation for odd valvetrain configuration, commonality with another engine (such as a 90 degree V8) for production, etc.
You forgot Falconer from Salinas California , uses off the shelf Chevy moving parts . Billet aluminum block heads intake and steel crank and cam made by Falconer . Multiple engine sizes available on request 680cid was largest and 475 was smallest . There was one cobra replica wheelbase stretched 6" to accommodate v12 .
The Falconer V12 is prominently featured in the video.
Thank you for feeding my need! Pls say Oh-burn. Thank you a lot.
Nice video. Thank you.
Detroit diesel 12V71 the "buzzin dozen" converting diesel fuel to noise at a very fast rate.
I love sing songy sound of the Detroit diesel. Nothing like it
What about the caterpillar and the Cummins V12. Mercury marine also has a V12 outboard.
I love the way you say Lincoln lol
1:03 that intake is the same size as an bmw 1200 twin😂
When I was 19 I bought a 1987 Renault Alliance L five door hatchback that was ugly as hell and came with a 1.7L four cylinder with a three speed auto trans for $150. I had it up over 100 MPH many times and it wanted to go faster, I just didn't feel safe. It's sad that those large displacement V12s could only produce enough power to push those vehicles to 100 MPH, but that was really fast for those days when the Model T only made like 40 HP.
They needed the engine to be just powerful enough to move the engine.
And the Miller V12's. They should have been mentioned.
I love the engines but the church built from an old home improvement store at 13:00 is the most American thing in this video.
No Scripps Engines? I know they are marine engines, but they are also interesting
Sorry but you didn't include Detroit 12v 92 series or 12v144 series, or was it 12v 141 ,haven't seen one in a few years, mostly for generators use i believe, but thanks, i found it informative
It was the 149 and I don't think it found its way in on-road applications
It's a Hot Rod Lincoln!!!
What about the Lincoln Zephyr V12 ? They built a lot more of them too.
He did mention it in the video already
On the L. engine were those unequal length scavenger headers
What about Mercury's v12 outboard? They're mak8ng a v10 now also.
A pushrod V8 can achieve huge displacement with forced induction you've got serious power.. the extra mechanical complexity of a V12 really makes little to no sense.
But I love V12s, they're mechanical marvels and everyone should own one.
Displacement of the engine is not affected by the amount of boost. Obviously you don't have a dog in this hunt.
Lower piston speeds, higher rpm, more power. That's one of the main reasons why European V12s are so much more powerful than American V8s.
@@PistonAvatarGuy Smoother too, because the more cylinders an engine has, the smoother the power delivery and general response becomes. My favorite analogy I like to use is one in which involves hiring workers to build a house. The more people that assist and help complete the project, the sooner it's done and the less effort there is in terms of work.
@@TheSilverShadow17 They're also smoother because of their inherent balance.
@@PistonAvatarGuy Certainly
What about the Cadillac and Lincoln V12?
Cadillac? Franklin?
Seagrave sounds like a death at sea
Cadillac had a V16
Yes, bu the video is about V12's. On the other hand, the video missed the Cadillac V12 based on that V16.
Ya more cylinders doesn't mean more power displacement does so v8s are generally fine
More cylinders just makes the firing intervals shorter and happen more frequently, thus giving the engine a smooth idle.
@TheSilverShadow17 sure but we are already talking about 8 its not like 4 vs 8 if you are talking about 12 the difference is every 90° vs every 60° it's not a big difference
@@james10739 You're certainly correct on that.
The only V12 I love is the Detroit Diesel
We make our own fortunes and we call them fate.
12:58 the Church Parking Lot
13:06 is that still the Church Parking Lot ?
I need someone to donate a 12v71 to my crazy build workshop, preferably a DDEC one
After watching these technical designs I began doubting that Americans went to the moon...
W16 harry Alison Miller air craft lol
So Chevys 702ci V12 ? Haven’t watched yet but it better be
I knew he would get it wrong. Not the only V12 buddy.
Uhm, there are many.
7:13 watch what happens when i cast a spell i dont know ahh name
8L V12, 170hp ... a true american engine lol
USA's only v-12? NOPE.
1960's Monkeemobile.
Auburn is pronounced 'Ahh-Burn'
More like "aw-burn"
The triple-throated Weber's are impressive.
I'd love to see a v12 in a deuce coupe.
The US seems to be he ONLY country that makes engines with more torque than horsepower.
I mean is that a bad thing that we like having engines that produce more low end grunt considering what we put them through on average? Plus with how big and wide our roads are we want to save fuel without compromising torque.
@TheSilverShadow17 Not at all. I love my low end torque! I don't like waiting to wind an engine out to get horsepower. I like having my torque as quickly as possible.
Also , I don't think anybody in the US cares about fuel economy. Look at all of the compensators and bro-dozers on the road...
@@fuse8052 Damn right! Revving out an engine just to make horsepower is cheeky, so torque wins races any day of the week.
Because v12s sound like straight 6s and why have straight 6 sound when you can have v8 sound...
Can't beat the sound of a two stroke!
I wish I could get a GM LS type version of the V-12 or a Ford version of the V8 quad cam engine. That would be soon cool, but I am dreaming. I love muscle cars but there is almost nowhere you can drive them to their full extent safely. If you join a car club which sometimes rents private racetrack to let their members go out an have fun without endangering the public as these IDIOTS do on freeways. At 63, I often wonder why young men are so reckless with their lives when they have so many good years left to live. Not to sound like a Puritan, I was one of those who raced anything that went fast, starting with moto-x in the 4th grade. I am paying fit it now in droves but...honestly, given the chance to go back...YES, I would do it all over again only better. Oh, sweet Testosterone 😋 It's so great to be a young man.
toyota v12 was another.
The video is about American V12 engines.
I can't believe how thick the cylinder walls are on that seagrave V12 holy cow.No wonder the engine weighs 2300 pounds. Reliable though. As in It will last forever..
People like to shit on american machinery for being "low-tech" "ancient" "agricultural", but at least that type of engineering requires minimal upkeep and will generally keep running.
It’s only the Americans could get such a tiny, minuscule amount of power out of an 8 litre V12. That’s what sticking with a VERY agricultural style of engineering does to a country.
Nah, the europeans could do it too. Notice how most of these engines were intended for heavy duty truck usage, and the rest were 1930s Luxury cars running 5:1 compression ratios.
Let me list a few highly advanced and efficient european V12s from the same period that make sooo much more power:
Horch 670 (german), 120hp from 6.0L
Maybach DS7 (german), 150hp from 7.0L
Maybach DS8, 200hp from 8.0L
Hispano Suiza J12 (spanish?swiss?french?), 220hp from 9.4L or 250hp from 11.3L
Rolls-Royce Phantom III (england), ~180hp from a 7.4L
As you can see the european equivalents of those american engines really made no more power from similarly massive displacements.
@@mrspandel5737 250hp or 200hp in the 1920-1930s was mad impressive tho!
Power means nothing without the torque figures, first. Second, most large displacement high cylinder count engines are high torque and low revving, meant for high torque low revving applications
😎
Just as a flower, which seems beautiful has color but no perfume, so are the fruitless words of a man who speaks them but does them not.
You should start writing books before you come down from that stuff you're smoking. You'll make trillions
Bruh the thumbnail... V12 lawnmower engine??
The Falconer is based on a BBC, not a small biock
Nothing like a foreigner covering American v-12s. Do you know why Ferraris have v-12s? Because Enzo fell in love with his buddy's v-12 Packard! V-12s are a luxury. And who's the richest country on earth?
Cringe 😂
Al stinks
either improve your english or bring back proper captions 🙄
he is like that for 40 years