Neurodivergency and having fine-tuned pattern recognition
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
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I am 40 years old, autistic and I have a 9 year old son who we believe is on the spectrum. He is the only person in my entire life I have ever had a real conversation with, and generally those conversations are about like dinner or pokemon and its amazing. I love deep concepts don't get me wrong, but just having like chit chat and small talk but in an spectrum way is like too dope
That is beautiful and tragic at the same time, the loneliness of hidden ideas and thoughts is a cross we have to bear, and your family time is wonderful for all.
Love this connection you have with your son
I know exactly what you mean 😊 it can be hard to find anyone to relate to.
I am currently in the process of dx for myself and my son (who is 5 and hyperlexic). I have always felt an indescribable connection to him, and I never knew why until this recent epiphany I’ve had of my own last 38 years of life.
This is so awesome!! 👏 I have a 9 year old too and he is the coolest (and I’ve always had the best conversations with him, even when he wasn’t talking yet!). I hadn’t had someone make me laugh (for real life) since him!!
This is so true! Not to mention that it’s impossible to be an autistic person without experiencing some type of trauma, because the world is so traumatic for neurodivergent and especially autistic people. What commonly results from trauma or abuse is hypervigilance: when you become really aware of people’s small actions and behaviors and use them to determine how to behave. This, combined with working extra hard to learn neurotypical standards of body language and facial expressions, means it’s really no wonder it feels like a sixth sense.
This comment ✨ 😩
Around the 8 minute mark you touched on self awareness and authenticity, and I totally agree when someone isn’t true to themselves it makes interactions disjointed. People will say stuff they don’t really mean and you have participate in their farce otherwise you are viewed as hostile. This is why I don’t like group settings because I feel people tend to flatten their personality for a wider audience leading to more games.
This video gives me so many thoughts! (...spots?)
1) On being able to "tell" about others: This is something I'm super sensitive about, because I only have Suspicions about myself, so I worry I'm being disrespectful if I think I can "tell" other people are ND- even though I never say it out loud. That being said... it's weird how often I'm right. I'll be briefly introduced to someone and later be told "oh they're autistic/adhd/etc btw" and in my mind I'm thinking "well yeah duh"😅But what if it's obvious to everyone?
2) I was glad you discussed high masking individuals because that was my immediate thought. I'm almost 100% certain my former boss was ND. We did NOT get along, but we weirdly understood each other. One day after a tense but productive conversation, she suddenly told me that she's really good at reading everyone (she's a psychologist), but she could never read me. The only thing I could say back was "I get that a lot." Maybe that meant... something idk
3) I struggle with making observational jokes ALL THE TIME. I swear I don't get how autistic people are supposedly the ones who struggle with taking everything literally, neurotypicals do too🤭 Anytime I make a joke people think I'm being overly critical or taking things literally, when I was making a joke! But then if I'm simply making an observation about a situation, THEN everyone thinks I said something SUPER funny! But I wasn't aiming for humor at all. It's very confusing, but just in a silly way lol
On point number 3 my reaction is “OMG this has been how people have described me as being funny my whole life.” I did improv in college so I’ve gotten better at understanding what is going to make people laugh but sometimes it’s not planned at all.
Some people say that I have no sense of humor. Other people tell me that I should be a stand up comedian! 😂
@@Catlily5SO TRUE OMG
I think not knowing I was autistic complicated the sixth sense, because I usually didn't realize that my observations weren't obvious to everyone else until after somebody's feelings were hurt. I started to pick up on that by my late twenties, but didn't fully understand why until being officially diagnosed in my late thirties.
The confusion of not seeing how no one else came to the same conclusions. 😩
I'm in my late thirties now... can I ask, how did you go about getting a diagnosis?
@@alexpeters7987 My therapist helped me find resources for evaluation centers in the area that worked with my insurance - I was extremely lucky to find a place that took medicaid and had a reasonably short waiting list. But it took several years before I was able to get that far, unfortunately.
Yeah I feel this first sentence especially hurting everyone’s feelings.
When you hurt someone's feelings it usually means you're on the right track 😅 (take it with a grain of salt, but most of my experiences have been this way)
I think the point you're making about high masking autistics coming across as NPC-like is so interesting. I only realised I am autistic (awaiting assessment) this past summer and I'm beginning the process of trying to unmask, embrace my neurodivergence and rediscover my true self that I've been hiding. It's so difficult, like honestly brutally difficult but also I know I need to be brave or I will end up so far away from myself and become bland and unfulfilled. It was kind of a harsh reminder, but totally needed to stop me from returning to patterns that may feel safe but ultimately don't serve me - thank you
Can i ask how you went through the process of beginning to get diagnosed? And what do you mean by "beginning the process of unmasking"? What do you do differently now than then?
@@alexpeters7987 the diagnostic process will be different depending on where you live. but I live in the UK so I contacted my GP who gave me a lot of forms to fill in and then they referred me to a triage unit to establish if I need further assessment - my wait time is like years long which sucks so I am considering going private. For your question about unmasking, i suggest reading ‘unmasking autism’ by dr Devon price - it’s really informative and gives you therapeutic exercises designed for embracing your true autistic self
I’m going through the same thing right now! I’m proud of you for being brave by unmasking and exploring who you are ❤️
@@alexpeters7987 I am in the start of the proces now. I did it by going to my psychiatrist, telling her that I resonate closely with being autistic. She sent me to get examined by a clinical psychologist (There is no autism specialist anywhere near me. My country is kinda behind on anything autism related) and after months of waiting for the examination, I got told I show aspects of Aspergers syndrome. Right now I am waiting for new years so that I can apply to get a neurological examination in a different city and in the meantime I am reading Aspergers syndrome the complete guide and watching a lot of these videos, because I relate to most of what she says.
As for unmasking, I am kinda lost myself, but I am experimenting. I just let my mind wonder and probably for the first time in my life, I actually let my body act on the wondering and not just shutting down. So far I feel like an idiot and the feeling of making shit up is still there, but I started to notice a couple of things I do a lot. for example I am always leaning in the window the exact same way while smoking, and I kinda analyze why it is so comfy to stand in such a weird position.
I guess you just have to be taking a different look on yourself. I have always looked at myself like I am not doing enough, and that lead into a pit. Now I at least know for a fact that yes, I am not doing enough, but in a completely opposite way. I have been always just so quiet, even in my head, I may have heard so many things, but nothing stuck around. This is actually the first time in a couple of years now that I actually feel like I remember something. That is amazing
I am such an NPC when I first meet people 😂😂😂 but interestingly enough if I meet genuine people that I resonate with I drop the mask almost immediately after a few exchanges.
Hey this kinda makes sense.
I think I'm pretty aware of things youre not supposed to say to people. But it causes me to be overly cautious. That mixed with slow processing, and being TERRIBLE at small talk, I end up saying not much at all to people.
I have a friend who I pretty much spent all my teenage and early 20s with and somehow we kinda drifted apart in our mid-20s until now. I “saw” changes in her that I guess no one saw or believed either. I rarely talked about it but when I would, it would always strike her as a surprise that I would know when she hadn’t told anyone basically. The abuse and trauma that she’s gone through that no one has noticed except for me and my sister… I made a point to talk to her about it and we both broke down crying together because for the 1st time I guess she felt “seen” and it was a very naked, new feeling for her that someone acknowledged and believed her right away. But it was a double edged sword. Because she now knew of my 6th sense, we’re not around each other much anymore because I know she’s not ready to be so transparent in front of someone who’s aware of her insecurities and can know of the deepest things she might be hiding from others and I’m okay with that. It’s not always a good feeling to be seen when you don’t have the choice to be or not to be. She’s neurotypical.
But I have some friends who are neurodivergent whose reactions are totally opposite of her. I just love having both worlds but I’m biased toward my neurodivergent friends because they make me and push me to grow.
This makes so much sense to me. I’m so good at interpreting other people and predicting their reactions. Yet I suck at getting others to understand me
I think the roadmaps concept is really interesting and fits well with how we can analyse people, but I also think it's super important to keep a healthy sense of doubt about our roadmap being accurate at all, let alone more accurate than the roadmap the person has created for themselves. The information we're using for ours is, by definition, less complete and more surface-level than theirs, and so even though they may have significant internal biases preventing them from interacting with that information the way we might, our conclusions may also just be inaccurate. In that way, personally I think the idea of using your roadmap to help you know how to show up for someone instead of just telling them what you've concluded is the way to go, not just because they may not be ready for those conclusions but because we know we might end up misjudging others in the exact same way that we get misjudged ourselves when NT people see ND behaviours and form their own conclusions without knowing what's really going on. Love this video though!
Thanks for making this. I remember getting in so much trouble for knowing stuff about people, but not facts or details about their life (like names, birthdays, favorite items, etc) but in the way that they behaved and articulated their inner worlds (their unique constellation). Thank you for the analogy of the roadmap, it's a better explanation on why nt pp would code switch their avatars. I love your observations! :)
I absolutely think my advanced pattern recognition is the one reason I'm able to get along well with NTs on a surface level, especially males bc they're more consistent
But it also gives me a bit of a crisis every time bc i genuinely don't know if I'm ever anything but a mirror of the other party in any given interaction.
Bro this is crazy and really driving home my autism. Recognizing stuff about people and blurting it out like everyone knows was such a common experience for me as a teenager. I've learned to keep my mouth shut until people tell me or ill ask insted of stating (cuz sometimes im wrong lol). Pattern matching as it relates to gaydar and neurodiversity-dar is so genius. I've always been really good at pattern matching and i enjoy it so much. It's part of the reason i chose my career path (geologist), becuase you're always pattern matching a building a story
I'm watching this video on 2x speed and your flow of consciousness / metaphors make complete sense to me. This is exactly how i process and think about things as well. When you were talking about those "grey" NPC neurodivergent people that have closed themselves off, I realized that is literally me. Only in the past 2 or so weeks have I come to understand through online resources that I'm probably autistic, and every one of your videos is exactly spot on with my experience. I'm high functioning, highly masking. I'm 22 but I feel like my whole life no one has really known the real me, and I've lost the real me along the way. It so traumatic and really sad, and at the same time I feel stupid about and I'm tired of feeling this way. Your video about analyzing social sitautions after they happen is extremely relatable and at the same time I wish I met someone like you in real life just so I could have someone to relate to. Even as I'm typing this comment I am masking and analyzing if I've used the word "I" so much and if I'm coming off as narcissistic and self centered. I'm so sick and tired of this and idk which way to turn, and knowing that there isn't an end to this just makes it worse. Before I had accepted that I was N.D I always blamed myself for failing socially but I still held on to a sliver of hope that over time I would improve my body and my mind enough until I could act like a better human and people would accept me. Now that I am learning about autism and neurodivergence, it's extremely hard for me since all hope is lost. I'm not even religious so there's nothing for me to grasp. The totality of this condition is so unbearable at times, and I really wish I was just normal so I could live a simple life and have deep meaningful connections without having to kill myself over every small interaction. It ridiculous. To anyone reading this, I'm sorry that this has taken such a negative turn but as I was writing this all the negative emotions started coming out since I'm in a bad headspace right now. If you can take anything away from this comment, I just want you to know that you are not alone. I know that probably doesn't feel good to hear from a random stranger on the internet, but still. We aren't completely alone. There's always a chance that one day you will meet a person that can make a huge impact in your life.
im 22 too and before discovering the autism and adhd topic in always asked myself why i was so different and couldnt connect/was disliked by others before i could connect. always introverted and taken as shy but i knew there was something else to it. I got depressed really early from all this stuff mobbing feeling different and getting used/laughed at when trying something. Finally i can ask myself less questions
@@sandwichaliasnotavailableit is both liberating and tragic when you find out
It is a burden! I knew it wasn’t a sixth sense but a behavioural recognition that I thought everyone had. I found out the hard way not everyone is authentic
This is the first time I have heard of this being a neurodivergent trait but it makes a lot of sense now. People were always so shocked whenever I was able to tell them a lot of information about themselves, without having talked to much to me. Luckily, I never crossed boundaries by doing so, but I thought everyone was able to do this for a long time.
My sixth sense is so finely attuned that I can accurately predict things that will happen up to a year in advance just based on behavioral patterns, either seen or described. Other people HATE that about me.
A dear friend has told me about deja vu moments where it seems she anticipated certain experiences as if she had already lived through them in her mind before they occurred. One in particular was a recurring dream she used to have. The scenery and appearance of the characters may have varied, but the concept was the same -- evading a predator creature and trying to warn or help a victim creature avoid attack in a nighttime or otherwise dark setting, the victim would end up wounded, laying motionless in a "dark puddle." She felt as though the predator creature represented her father in a dark, unstable state of mind, and that the victim creature was her brother in danger, ending up bleeding from being attacked by her father, and she was not "there" in time to save him.
As I've gotten to know her better, i realize she's neurodivegent. (and awesome... like me 😉) It seems that her observant and analytical mind picked up the pattern that would eventually lead to what actually happened.
(Turn away now if you do not wish to hear the somewhat shocking outcome.) She was not there the day her father was mentally blinded by a severe fight-flight episode, and her brother got between the intended target and the knife. Their father's mind suddenly snapped back into reality when he saw his son bleeding. Her brother could have died that day, had it not been for the skilled team in the emergency room.
😓🥺❤️🩹🥹
This is something I’ve definitely struggled with. Often I know people better than they seem to know themselves, but I’ve had trouble keeping that to myself. I was parentified growing up and often take on the role of fixer so I’m learning to recognize when people aren’t ready to confront things that I have learned about them
I'm with you here😭 super glad to see I'm not alone in this.
your abstract explanations of how you’re thinking about it make complete sense. I actually find them more easy to follow since you’re walking me through how/why you’re thinking about it as more context
Same!
The title and topic of this video is so wild to me, because I *swear* every time you upload a video, it’s about something I’ve had on my mind that week. 😂
I'm on the spectrum, 46 years old, diagnosed in the past year...or lets say more, confirmed my suspicions. What you said about the NT folks not wanting to learn about others. I told my mom my recent diagnosis. I thought she would be understanding. But it was more thrown in my face as if it was a joke. "Autistic??? Were they grasping"...I didn't even know how to take that...but then, they start getting real defensive and act as if I didn't have feelings, or wasn't there. It really saddens me. My parents have basically disowned me, and even alienated. Excluding me from family events.
7:55 regarding your point on having a roadmap for someone but having to consciously interact with them through the lens of THEIR own roadmap - that is something I experience on a daily basis. It's why I intentionally mirror people a lot because it's less distressing for them.
As an example, my friend said she wanted to go into childcare, which is roughly the 10th 'future career' aspiration she's had in the past few years. I said to her, 'oh you're good with kids'. She is good with kids, and I know that that is her self-perception too, so I mirror her self-perception back to her.
But from my understanding of her, the reasons she likes kids is 1) she wants to fix her own past trauma through influencing children, almost as if reparenting these kids will absolve the bad parenting she herself has experienced and 2) she likes being able to control people and situations and being around kids offers that.
If she keeps going down this path I know she will run into issues she hasn't perceived yet, like having to grapple with their parents (who have significantly more power/control than the kids), and the fact that you can't really 'fix' anyone per se.
But I'd never say any of this to her because I wouldn't want to highlight any part of her self she is uncomfortable with, before she is ready to hear it.
Rescripting conversations from what I know about a person/situation, to what THEY want to hear - it is a continuous process that takes so much energy, and is part of why I feel so tired after conversations.
But whenever I don't do that, and unintentionally tell people things I know about them that they aren't ready to face yet - the reaction is never good. They aren't aggressive but they tell me that 'what you say is all correct, but it feels uncomfortable to have a microscope put up against it'.
I've also come to realise that parts of my roadmap about them aren't always correct either. After all, reality is subjective. And who am I to interfere in their journey to self-knowledge?
Anyway, this video is the first time I've ever heard anyone else describe this specific part of my daily experience with such fidelity. Thank you!
Really glad you talked about this because this is probably the biggest source of social struggle in my life. I never really know how to go about interacting with people who I see things in that shouldn't be talked about. It sucks because I really want to talk to them on that level and I have to pretend like it's not even a thing. It's really frustrating and cool to know you struggle with it too I guess lol.
Yeah I do too😅
I definitely believe we have this "6th sense". I even think it's beyond pattern recognition. Mainly because of two instances in my life, where I saw (did not interact) with two different people at different times in my life. There was an overwhelmingly comfortable vibe. Authenticity. They seemed more clear than any other people, ever.
I have thought about if it could possibly be based on sense of smell. This sounds strange, I know, but smell is the most rational conclusion, otherwise it has to be some kind of unexplained brain connection. These instances were a few seconds, with no consequences, but I can't forget them.
Also, it wasn't about attraction at all, one was a maybe 8 year old when I was 14, the other was a 40 year old woman when I was 23. In both instances, they seemed to notice it too. The girl and I took turns to just peak at each other, while waiting for a green light. The older woman even circled back and seemed to want to approach me, but I was working and I think she realized that saying something would be really weird.
Video suggestion: maybe a video on how you've navigated the trials and tribulations of young adult life as a neurodivergent individual and tips for others?
Once I get a data point, I _can't help_ but apply it. My brain is constantly analyzing things, collecting data, and building patterns. It does this all the time, and whenever I have "spare cycles" so to speak, I get anxious and agitated. I need to stay within a certain range of data input. I think I use this to compensate for not having any idea how social cues work.
Fun fact: apparently Neurotypical fear and stress hormones (released via sweat) make us calm, and their calm hormones make us anxious. We can smell your fear, NTs! 🤪
Hrm maybe thats why they go into mom-mode when others are freaking out , (or maybe its a trauma response from anticipating other ppls emotions )
Does it work vice versa as well?
People say im an empath and a people pleaser
but its all trauma and pattern recognition and hypervigilance
I know someone I told them they might be autistic I was wrong but he went for a diagnosis and he has quiet bpd
I have a habit of making jokes about myself, and then realizing that nobody (neurotypical) around me knew I was making fun of my shortcomings, and probably thought I was just being a huge jerk
Your videos have been super interesting and enlightening. I helped my fiancé get his daughter her ASD diagnosis (age 9) and now will most likely get ADHD as well. My fiancé I think is undiagnosed ND and truthfully I don’t know if I am. I work with ND children and children with other disabilities, so I’ve gained so much knowledge that past 20+ years in my career so far.
I watched your videos Irene and others on ND because it helps me with my work and to also guide me in how to best raise my step daughter with my partner.
I think what I struggle the most with my partner and other adult NDs is the ability to have a conversation outside of their interests. I can talk about anything with my other friends but I find the topic selection limited with my partner and my ND friends. My partner sees me speak to my other friends and sister and it does bother him that we can’t have the same kind of dialogue sometimes. We can easily talk about what he wants to but when I bring up something I want to talk about (it doesn’t interest him) it generally ends very quickly. He recognizes that and so we both understand that is something I will sometimes have to get fulfilled with my friends or sister if the topic doesn’t interest him.
This is so accurate and true! I've always been extremely good at picking up on people's personalities because of my autism and pattern recognition.
Hey coming from someone who’s adhd, autistic and has chronic pain. I know u have endometriosis so wanted to ask if you have ever heard of ehlers-danlos syndrome it’s a wind spectrum but it’s a genetic condition that affects your body’s ability to produce collagen that supports your connective tissue which leads into so many different types and can make u have multiple disorders, body issue and neurological things. 😊
I know this question wasnt for me but this describes my life 😂
@@leotardbanshee them there u go 😅
@@leotardbansheeI probably have Ehlers Danlos as well. It is more common in people who have autism.
At social events I most certainly survey the crowd and evaluate who I may have the most successful conversation with. I choose the person who I perceive to be the most socially relaxed, appear to not be “fake” in both appearance and personality. There are at least 3 identifiable commonalities or traits that correspond with rehearsed, planned and comfortable conversational items with an awareness of a weighted positive outcome (determined through years of social failures)
Once conversation has been initiated, there is awareness that pertinent information forward, clear removal of non-important information to ensure clear communication. Opinions are easily shared but based on fact and supported with trusted evidence. Both parties ask open ended questions and none closed. Both are able to disagree when opinion based but will accept fault when shared information is factually proven incorrect.
These conversations, these friends, are the BEST!!!
I made my comment before I got to 21 min! I am a nurse and one of the most fulfilling parts of my job is to figure out the most difficult, most complex, most non conventional patients so that I can get to know their true selves and hopefully make some sort of positive impact in their lives. I will volunteer for the challenge. Not to win, but to connect and learn.
The conversations have so much depth and can go on for hours!!! I love it when I bond with another ND
Hoi hoi!
Self-diagnosed AuDHDer here. (Saving up for a formal diagnosis, those things are expensive 😅)
Kevin sounds like a gem, I love it!
To add on to your point of what NDs and NTs look for in groups, it reminds me of something my brother said a while back.
"People seldom look for a differing opinion, they're usually looking for reinforcement of a view they already believe in."
It's interesting cause I'm the exact opposite. Living in an echo chamber terrifies me, since I believe I would never be able to grow as a person without those differences in opinions and beliefs. There's so much to learn out there that it's terrifying and beautiful all the same.
Thanks for the video! It's always nice to know that we're not alone in these trains of thoughts~.
I also hope your fair use claim goes through!
I completely feel that. Way before I got diagnosed with autism and adhd I knew I wasn't good at talking to strangers and making friends, except with a few kind of people I could sense were compatible to me and the conversation just flows. I now know that kind of people were neurodivergent people 🤭
Also I laughed so hard at Kevin's comment😂 I love to talk to people about important and deep stuff (funny unimportant absurd stuff too). Wether in a serious or dark comic tone, I love conversations where two people are completely open and vulnerable ❤ BUT if I'm having a lot on my plate at that moment, then I don't wanna hear about it because it's too much emotional weight. The more unbalanced I feel, the more I carry the weight of the world on my shoulders. And it's too painful and draining.
I absolutely love your videos and perspective on things. I relate too much to your way of thinking. Thank you for existing and doing what you do 🙏💜
One thing I've noticed looking back on my past and current friendships now that I know I am ND is that I was unknowingly creating a little safe haven of all neurodiverse friendships haha. We definitely have a sixth sense even if we don't realize we are using it.
This is very true, I learned it can also lead to people getting a bit obsessed with you because they feel seen or you make them feel safe. This usually happens with people that are a bit on the unstable side, either leading to friendships with folks people find scary or intimidating or leading to a stalker like situation. I tend to make fun of humanity and society and how odd humans are and how we as a species don't really seem to belong here. The riffing thing is also awesome its so wonderful to find someone who could chat with you and understand. I tried to explain it to my therapist as the interconnectedness of all things or like a spider webs. The need to be useful is also a major thing with my autism, not necessarily a people pleaser just wanting to make things work.
Oh yeah. This is me. 6th sense i *usually* keep to myself because most ppl don't like hearing about the things they're pretty sure no one knows. It's all about patterns.
very relatable. I feel like this makes it so hard to ask questions when talking to people I just met at times... 'meaningless small talk' is so hard for me and my questions would probably go too deep so I'm having a hard time asking any questions at all because before asking I go through all the ways my question could be misinterpreted.
Thought I'd share this maybe somebody can relate.
Not too abstract, I totally get it. And it is hard to navigate interpersonal social dynamics when you’re trying to connect on a deep authentic level with people who have never even connected deeply and authentically with themselves.
When I was a kid I actually believed that everyone was telepathic, but politely pretending not to be able to read each others minds. It wasn’t until I was about 17 that I began to consider the possibility that that wasn’t the case, and that others were not feigning ignorance. And I began to suspect that when I noticed the arguments that my peers were getting into with their partners: I saw that they sometimes couldn’t understand each other, even when they were talking/arguing.
And I call people who are completely shut down and functioning on autopilot “greys.” Often, I’ve noticed, that those sort of people even wear a lot of grey or black and blue clothes. So his all made a lot of sense to me!
I personally don't think that I can, I find it hard just to recognize how people act yet somehow like 95% of my friends are Neurodivergent.
Pattern recognition is something I have noticed about myself going back to my youth, I spent so many years mimicking others that seeing patterns was how I survived through high school. Body language is something I notice right away, even if I don’t understand what it means right away I can see something is different, the way they walk, dress or where their eyes go… especially the eyes.
This is why autistics are great psychiatrists and psychologists. Bc if you make that map and then compare it with your own map, finding similar aspects and knowing the solution and steps to fuguring out the solution you can literally guide the person to this solution with right questions making them get to the answer themselves, so it stucks with them. Maybe thats just me, but before i was diagnosed, i called it "the third eye" just for fun and because people told me it feels like i look through them. Even through i always knew for some reason this was just me analyzing people to the extent of automatisation of the process. But sometimes it feels like a superpower anyway. I can help almost anyone i meet if i want to. And im trying my best to do that, if its not hearting me, because i can help
I identify with so much of what you say here. It's like you're describing how my brain works around interacting with others, especially the stuff about building roadmaps and then acting accordingly/appropriately. Thank you
I dont know if its because my brain is just as jumbled as yours as far as a thought process is, but I am able to pick up EVERYTHING you said 😅 Thank you for these videos, you have helped me find out more about myself, I have been struggling with fighting to try to get someone to diagnose me so I can understand why I have struggled and been the way I have been for over 30 years, but unfortunately my insurance wont allow it and I cant afford to pay out of pocket at the moment. Your videos helped me find my voice and a way of explaining to the ones closest to me how I am and why. They truly help me become more comfortable with myself and feel like I can overcome more things that I normally would stress about or shutdown from. Thank you so so much, truly. 💕
We see the unconscious concretely when others don't or refuse to acknowledge it. It's ironic too as we make emotions plain as day, yet experience those emotions in most if not all their different forms. We emotionalize and intellectualize equally. We also analyze emotions and emotionalize thoughts. We want to get to the root of meaning, not just accept things all the time. We challenge people, not to be the devil's advocate, but to understand why they think or act the way they do. We read between the lines while others just read the lines.
I spotted an old acquaintance’s daughter’s autism by seeing 2 consecutive photos of her due to her finger posture. I was weary on even bringing it up as I hadn’t spoken to her in over a decade, but come to find out they had been trying to get her dx for years 🤯
I’m glad that I’m not the only autistic person that is observant in this manner. I used to get in a lot of trouble when I was a child for boldly asking questions about things I’d observed about people and their behaviour. I would fixate on facial expressions, clothes, body language, tone of voice, smells, size, etc. I’d ask people directly why anything I observed was happening and try to figure it out to the point they’d get uncomfortable.
As I got older, I realised quickly what type of questions were and weren’t acceptable and learned to keep most of what I observe to myself because it always got strong reactions. I have developed a shyness and fear of staring/looking for too long at people as I eventually began to internalise the discomfort it brought other people. Even when I was a baby, people would point out how observant and attentive my eyes were. Many have said they felt exposed when I’ve made eye contact for too long.
This has all gotten much easier to process and cope with since my diagnosis.
the joke was funny af
hahaha it made me lol
I would love to have a friend that is like me. One of my complains in life is that I never had someone that I can analyze life or situations. People don’t like that about me. I get too deep but being in my 40’s I just don’t want to have friends anymore. I am pretty content with how I am and learning about this is just helping me so much and in so many ways. Thank you 🙏🏼
That was so excellent Irene. I really get what you mean. I think my own observational analytical stance has been one of the things that has caused me to feel like an outsider just looking in. I have more I could say but my iPad keyboard is playing up.
Yess!! I know this exact feeling
I’m so glad I’m not the only one with this.
As a former “gray” who has started the slow and painstaking process of unmasking, this was very interesting to watch. A lot of what you said about “high-masking” autistics (assuming I’m correct in my self-diagnosis; I’m getting a real test soon) is very true, and I have used almost those exact words to describe myself when trying to connect with someone on a deeper level. This is something I’ve struggled with for much of my life, but I learned early on it’s not okay to express it. I once describes it as “running something like a virtual machine of other people in my mind”, referring to how I am able to relate to people and understand their motivations, but was told I was ridiculous and nobody does that, so I promptly locked it down and never spoke of it again. It’s kind of funny though; I warn my parents when people on the road want to switch lanes before they turn on their signal (if they even do) with a roughly 90% success rate lol. Where I live, drivers are quite terrible, and I don’t have the mental processing speed to deal with things in the moment, so I’ve learned to predict them before they occur
I wonder if for some it might not be a heightened pattern recognition (compared to neurotypicals) but maybe good social recognition in high functioning autistics coupled with the 'inability' to lie. I've noticed most neurotypicals are perceptive like this but
might just be better at hiding it or being coy. Autistic people aren't naturally coy; it's either authentic or a full on mask. A need to state the obvious/be literal
Also appreciate the part where you said that most neordivergents thrive in diverse company/ ways of thought. It can be very frustrating when you try to have meaningful conversations about life or anything and the conversation has so many rules and taboo things that cant be said or asked -everything has to be so filtered and can feel so bland. Being able to theorize, speculate, and question things is what makes conversations so valuable because I able to challenge my persepctive not just reinforce it. Great content.
7:32 I understand this completely. It’s hard for me because I am good at figuring out people’s insecurities and even the types of trauma they’ve dealt with, but those aren’t things that people always want to confront. It’s a tricky game.
You are doing a great service by saying the things in my head out loud. I can almost feel like they're real now.
I totally hear you and resonate with the description of catering to other people’s roadmaps 😢
I enjoy occasions when I can take something seriously without being serious.
I identified with this entire video and I thought I was the only one who did this.
Your abstract description of the thought and engagement process with others was actually very apt 🙂
Listening to you talk about this observations of other people you interact, I can see someone with autism be a pretty good therapist.
Please do a video about the suspicion that neurotypicals are actually the limited ones.. 😅
This is me 100%!! I remember being able to do this as a kid and I was so confused that other people couldn't see it
Your experience in the example of being able to tell a lot about people from various small details is the same as mine. The similarity is eerie. The more I learn about autistic peoples' experiences, the more it is revealed to me that I am not that unique xD
Yes and no. I think it really actually depends on the person.
I love your esoteric deep dive tho and enjoy your wholeness and humanity 🥰
As a kid I was pretty psychic in a general way, as was my mother and older brother. I quickly became aware that you couldn't bring up any of this stuff openly. It wasn't allowed. The overall message was "Don't talk about ANYTHING deep, to anyone." This was both isolating and alienating. I didn't know why there was such a big taboo against acknowledging things that were perceived psychically. Of course when it happens to me (as when my brother would pick a thought right out of my head and throw it back to me), it feels pretty invasive and uncomfortable. This problem fits into the "dislike of small talk" trait of Aspergers. It's not just the pettiness of small talk or its boringness; it is also that there's all this real stuff, important stuff that is being ignored.
19:03 the way i also laughed at kevin's joke proves your point
I felt a new video had dropped
It’s the neurodivergent 6th sense 🧠
@@Cybersyd888 woahhhhh 🧠 🤩
Rieki....mugwort tea...and Neurodivergency are pathways to abilities some consider to be un-natural.
I know I’m a bit “late” to answering your question but for me, the biggest factor in telling if someone is neurodivergent (not that I’m actively trying to tell if someone is neurodivergent but the people who react this way tend to be) is not anything to do with how they present themselves but more so how they react to me.
Allow me to explain. I would never say I’ve been good at masking because pretty early on in my life due to personal reasons I learned no matter what I did certain people just weren’t going to like me so why try to fit in with them? Since about the age of ten I’ve not masked any of my physical tells of my autism (inability to make eye contact, constant stimming, things like that) and only masked socially as a way to avoid conflict.
Despite masking socially, I am visibly not what people would consider “normal.” Thus the reactions are often varied but normally fall into certain categories. Of course, there’s the people who are rude, the people who are concerned (for all the wrong reasons, meaning that if I stop rocking them suddenly they think nothing is wrong and I’m fine because I’m acting “normal” so they treat me that way briefly and they often get frustrated when I continue doing whatever I’m doing), the people who act like nothing is wrong, and the people who notice.
There’s a fine line between the people who act like nothing is wrong and the people who simply notice but it’s there nonetheless. The people who act like nothing is wrong will often try to force eye contact at first, then ask me if I’m okay, then seem uncomfortable around me in a way they aren’t around other people. I can appreciate the effort but it’s still a noticeable difference in how they treat me vs everyone else. The people who notice are often the people who end up revealing to me along the line they’re neurodivergent. They’re people who will definitely take note of my visible differences in behavior but won’t ask questions or try to force me into being like everyone else. They’re normally more relaxed around me in contrast with the people who act like nothing is wrong and will begin opening up a lot sooner than other people in a way that would be deemed inappropriate by society at large because of how quickly they may begin to open up about very serious topics. Their body language often changes around me as well to something that seems less stiff.
It’s more often than not not going to be a result of me trying to make them more comfortable either because my social masking really does begin and end at trying not to cause conflict, not catering to others wants/needs. I don’t go out of my way to make people feel comfortable around me. Im blunt in a way people find abrasive. Im curt in a way people find rude. Im monotoned in a way people find unnerving. I don’t try to be abrasive, rude or unnerving but they’re all things that people have called me often but I’m burnt out and tired so I’m not going out of my way to make people I barley know see a version of them they would rather have. The version of me that they do have is right here and they’re going to have to deal with that because I’m not changing my entire being on a dime for their brief comfort in exchange for my long term exhaustion. Neurodivergent people seem to understand that, probably relate to that (especially seeing as I live in a very small area), and thus their reactions to me are normally different to their reactions to others but in a positive way whereas with neurotypical people it’s often negative.
My best friend in from high school through my late 20s was the only person I could be myself around. We had a falling out and didn’t talk for five years. We reconnected and both realized we are both on the spectrum. My cousin, who also found out she is on the spectrum, was the only cousin who I could stand being around growing up.
One thing my friend said to me that I'm reminded of: you are not responsible for other people's emotional responses. You are responsible for your actions and words, but you cannot control your emotional responses either. But you can control how you handle them. So I think that you should trust them with their own responses and to do what they need.
Oh my god. I had a friend in high school who I later found out was autistic. I always wondered why for the longest time why she was so NPC, so un-individual, always followed what others were doing. She was different, but she also wasn't. She didn't have any hobbies or interests she talked about or emotions even. Now I understand why and my mind has been blown. She was just trying to survive!!! I feel so horrible for realizing this now... I always wondered why she was so different yet so painfully normal.
this one really hit home. mainly especially talking about having the map of the person and catering to certain aspects but the other person not being fully aware as to why. I experienced that with my late girlfriend, however, I wasn't aware of my autism at the time. she, which I only know now, also wasn't aware that she had schizoaffective disorder. we both always knew and would tell each other things like "you just get me" when it came to some things, although obviously in some other places we'd be like "we're total opposites" but we always could tell we weren't the same as others and we could sense the familiarity in each other, even if not exactly the same. now that a lot has passed, some events have happened, it really really made me focus on all of this more. I studied countless diagnosis (idk which one is the plural form) before she was actually diagnosed, and although initially I stumbled on a few just because I hadn't studied the right ones yet, I was able to arrive at schizoaffective disorder, especially after seeing some videos of living well with schizophrenia (who has schizoaffective disorder) and seeing how very closely related some parts were, and it's not just from guessing but from personal sensitive information she shared that I knew play a role in how people can grow up if raise by people who are not the best. I had no influence whatsoever in her diagnosis, as the doctors never even contacted me, yet they arrived at the same conclusion. even talking to my therapist, when I explained everything to her with actual long, detailed details, was very impressed I came to the conclusions I did and backed it up with reasonable thoughts and knowledge. I did it just because I wanted to understand her and her experiences and emotions and thought process and it felt wrong to be praised for what felt like the bare minimum. it felt, natural. sorry. long rant. but somehow, that's where this video took me. anyway, I've been subbed to this channel for a while now cause I decided it'd definitely be best for me to really focus on my own mental health the same way I did someone else's. this channel helps so much with that. thank you for the videos you make, and sharing so much of your experience. I always relate so hard to all of the videos.
LOLL holy shit that's a book. sorry y'all but if anyone decides to actually read all that and this, I really appreciate you
Wow... I had a problem recently where I basically ruined some relationships, for the exact reason. I saw things, they were not ready to see and I was trying to help by showing them what they were missing. It just made people uncomfortable
This is actually extremely useful to me because I haven't gone through the process of hiding what I know yet, which I literally just started practicing today.... weird coincidence... perhaps the algorithm knows too much...
Holy shit man, seriously the similarities with your story and mine is really eerie
I am an Aquarius Mercury as well and I so get your abstract way of thinking!!!
I have a major pattern recognition as well as small changes because of this I was called a lier and attacked on multiple platforms with extreme gaslighting and eventually I was banned for defending myself over..... Disney dreamlight valley Of all things. All because I'm a spatial thinker.
Judging by your photo its Babylon Five.......joke
@corsai7506 I don't understand I'm serious my picture of me with a bindi cause I'm Hindu.
@corsai7506 I was called awful names told numerous times that I needed:
a doctor
a psychiatrist
meds
To lay off the drugs
To get off the internet
To unalive myself
And also was told that I am
A lier
A schizophrenic
A nut case
An incest baby
It wasn't a joke to me
The ability to communicate in similar ways is what usually what I pick up on, and like you said my sense of humor is not for every one. I don't go around dxing people, or assuming I'm accurate, but I do notice traits that people have.
I’m at 8:31 and omg this!! I could cry, both that and laugh like each time I swear it has me wanting to do that creepy laugh cry thing because it’s so me and so true like I think being smart along with the whole dismissed idea of me having adhd (as well as autism) along with something maybe a bit of dyslexia (I also get bad migraines and have hormone issues which I still need to figure out) it’s been a lot but that the whole lying to the world part like I think that (along with me trying extra hard to be as true as possible for both me, i feel like the ptsd has created a bit of a weird memory thing, but also the whole misunderstandings turn into “you lied to me” so we aren’t doing that) but what I think is actually making me feel like I’m insane is the what gaslighting I don’t know what to call it but like ok if they don’t understand (like their brain isn’t able to conceptualize it or even me being a horrible teacher like ok fine) but that whole “you’re just overthinking it” or “worrying about something that isn’t worth your energy” like yes it v well can be as it’s a consistent thing that’s causing both of us obv stress because what we argue over it ? And it’s like she’ll be like “it’s not a problem and I don’t know why you are doing that like just relax like nothing happened there’s nothing to even worry about??” And that just legit just gets me like😩🤯🤦🏼♀️which I can’t the emotions are too much and really after that point I’m done because if I am not on the verge of shutdown and like forcing it or totally crying/yelling it’s not at that point helping anyone so I need to go for a timeout which youkno then I usually just end up crying but after that breakdown we all just go carry on with life and ofc ignore that for ‘later’🙄😒🙄(and you know that day just never seems to come nor do I think it will ever really even be able to happen (at least the way it seems to be) but that is also made worse due to all 3 of us, my mom, brother 23, me 26, and it’s a struggle for each one of us lol and that’s again undiagnosed and honestly I think that it’s the high IQ thing like the way it impacts us on top of being we all have our own mental issues like again which yay genetics right like we haven’t been able to get things really figured out so yea tbh it’s just been a constant repeat of that right above lol we circle thru the “me problems lol” but hey don’t get me wrong we have been working on it and it’s been YEARS to get to that point lol so like that uh yay progress lol and we have done good and all but still I mean it’s really tough🤷🏼♀️) but I’m thankful for them because they did care/they still do so im thankful
OMG so much of this resonates with my lived experience. I do believe that intuition is higher order pattern recognition that’s specifically geared toward the more abstract aspects of emotion, perspective and experience.
The analogy that comes to mind is social/emotional/abstract HDTV vs VR gaming.
They are both awesome with individual strengths and weaknesses.
One is much more common easier to use and understand but also more limited, whereas the other is a LOT more trouble but allows for a more complete and authentic representation as well as it being more real, visceral, complete and accurate.
This is my experience exactly. It has goten me in trouble because I have redponded to hostility and meanness from people by pointing out ehy I know they behave that way. And it took me a really long time to figure out that often the person and others around aren't even aware of it. I have felt like maybe part of my life's purpose is to bring trauma that needs to he realised to the surface.
I have this as well but to such a level I had to learn to shut most of it off as a kid even. My intelligence tested out as a kid around borderline genius but on the listening portions I'd be at 30th percentile but 99th percentile on like math English, reading comprehension. But even in the subjects I did well on I wasn't doing as well as I could have or should have. Thanks for sharing. I see patterns across both numbers and systems and people. So I can pick up on even mental disorders or disabilities in like less than a second but I can't say anything but often times my intuition turned out to be exactly right even when I just recommended someone to see a doctor about something and then turned out what I thought is what the doctor said.
You said in this video things I have tried to find words to tell people to explain about myself for a very long time. I am going to be showing some close friends this video.
Well that makes a lot of sense as an analogy since neurodiverge is truly hete to work the shadow by breaking the pattern society has locked everyone in. Thank you for being autistic! Also your welcome for me also being autistic. The world is rapidly changing because of us and will only improve now that we have our foothold.
8:35 I feel like this whole stream of consciousness is easily followed by fellow Neurokin. As I’m sitting here watching, I can’t get over how much I can relate and even had the thought, I know this must confuse some people. I guess TL;DR is if you know, you know.
This topic is fascinating. I can't understand it on a personal level though. It seems like I have below average pattern recognition.
"Picking up vibes."
It's what my mind's energy field does.
"Detecting and deciphering someone's energy."
"Feeling agitated when I can sense that someone is denying reality or concealing something that is eating them from the inside."
"Noticing that someone's energy has gone from dischordant and tangled to aligned and in-tune."
"Lifting my foot from the brake pedal the moment before the traffic light turns green." -- yeah, i can even feel the energy of nonliving things.
stop i literally love ur content sm 😭😭😭😭
i tend to psychoanalyze people around me , what you talking about is at another lever, good one👍
I have seriously never thought someone described my own experience better in my entire life, I kinda want to meet you now. In a platonic way.
The way you speak is nourishing my mind. Thank you.
As a mathematician and philosopher, this ability is really cool
I gotta work up the courage to send this and your INFJ video to my friends because you are so accurately articulating my social experience. Thanks Irene. You rock, take care of yourself.
I’m in the process of seeking a formal diagnosis but I highly suspect I’m autistic. I think I can hold conflicting truths easily, except when someone is trying to argue it at me. If we’re having a conversation I’m more than happy with that, but if they treat it like a debate that they need to win and not an exchanging of ideas it’s honestly extremely frustrating and triggering, and if they don’t let me take the space I ask for (“I’m just trying to have a conversation”meanwhile they were just yelling their points at me) I will meltdown. Is this the experience for anyone else? At first I was thinking this could be a sign I’m not autistic but reading it back I feel like it’s almost the opposite. I don’t understand a debate mentality period, I don’t really understand saying something with the purpose of convincing someone else of what you are thinking. I also feel like when you have a debate mentality, you’re not being receptive to what the other person has to say, you’re just formulating your points to combat what they are saying. So I think the trigger starts there, with those feelings of confusion, I can tie a lot of my breakdowns to a trigger where I didn’t understand something. I think once they’re getting frustrated and raise their voice a bit, I’m already so overwhelmed from first, being very confused, second, having to still have this conversation despite that confusion and try to respond to your debate while also pretending I’m not struggling to have this conversation, just finally sends me because I was already so overwhelmed.
Irene, you're so insightful!
This has to do with where this too direct autistic issue comes from. If you don't pick up on this, you just say something true about someone which turns out to be sensitive and personal and then I'm like... But I picked up this information from this interaction, I wasn't spying on you or anything... Moreover, sometimes I actually don't even get completely that I'm saying real things, I may believe I'm making a joke on something relevant, but not precisely present here and now for them, since they never said it was a thing, so I assume all they say is all there is and thus my idea or joke is new and comes from me. I just hadn't realised how perceptive I was for a long time, cause I'm kinda used to being clueless in social dynamics
Totally follow your thinking, this was a beautifully expressed breakdown 🌻 thank you. Love your videos. It is interesting when you don’t give a neurotypical person the reaction you can feel they’re waiting for, because it feels scripted and more image-oriented than authentic. I experienced this with my ex who I realized was narcissistic over time. If I didn’t respond to her pings for admiration, she would then congratulate herself, and that came across as me being cold to her. But in reality, I really want to shower my partner with praise but I don’t want to be herded into that or feel that this person is already expecting constant praise sometimes at the expense of my own individuality. I don’t want to feel like a tool. She also never really made fun of herself. I obviously wasn’t perfect. I made plenty of mistakes, but I never understood operating under dishonesty. Never understood accepting love based on any lies. I loved her a lot and I still do and I learned a lot from that relationship. One of my biggest takeaways was learning to trust someone’s energy at least just as much as their words. Not less. Because like you said, sometimes people aren’t ready to address things you can see in them. Crystallized vs Fluid Intelligence is neat. Really hope none of this sounded pretentious.
Yes, thank you! This is just what I needed. 😊
One of the banes of my existence is NTs close to me denying my pattern recognition when others are showing signs of rejection.
could listen to u all day
ty for posting
i feel u on all of this 🌻
31 male self diagnosed with ASD
Knew I was different just couldn’t understand why until a bad relationship.
It’s hard for me because I’m high masking so I don’t notice much.
Trying to find myself in 2024.