I'm a Brazilian of Rio de Janeiro and seeing Rickson Spar it's like see a God doing his work he's soo skilled the Master Rickson are the pure essence of Brazilian jiu jitsu.
Perfect example my friend! I agree that Roger Gracie used what some would consider old school fundamental Jiu Jiitsu and absolutely dominated the BJJ tournament competition circuit.
@@semperfortisjiujitsuRoger has talked in the past about rolling with Rickson during his first couple championship runs and getting mauled. Probably in his mid 40s when he was doing that? Quality technique beats quantity of techniques 100% of the time.
@@rstlr01 I agree and very well said. Roger Gracie's style of attack is very similar to Rickson's and Roger absolutely dominated the Jiu jitsu tournament circuit including his superfight with Buchecha a few years ago when so many people were saying that Roger wouldn't have a chance.
Rickson said recently that modern BJJ guys are generally athletes and not necessarily martial artists. They are competition focused and not self defence.
I live in SoCal in a very heavy BJJ area with big names and train at 2 schools. I do this because my original school only trains 3 days a week and I wanted more days to work on my art. So I found a school to fill in for the missing training days. The first school would be directly related to Helio, so close that he feels like family, and the second school you would consider a well known top level competition school. Now, first I will say, I respect them both tremendously and acknowledge that they have both played a part in my current skill level, I love them both. In my opinion, the old school BJJ camp has less techniques to learn but they hone those down to an effectiveness that is harder to overcome. The newer BJJ on the other hand has far more techniques, is light, fast, and less strength based. They are both great but the old school BJJ will be my pick if I am doing this for self defense 100% of the time. They just focus more on the the things you need to win a street fight and they do Judo to help with the takedowns. Surprisingly, they both do very well in competitions. So, IMO Rickson would kill most newer BJJ style guys out there if he were in his 20s.
I really enjoy both traditional old school Jiu Jitsu and modern tournament Jiu Jitsu techniques. I think it is really hard to compare different generations in almost any sport. What really bothered me was the guy saying they would be tough purple belt level by today's standards and to me that was just disrespectful. Thanks for your insights and best wishes in your training.
I get your point but I think if they don’t know how to counter new guards , they wouldn’t get thier offense going . But yah once they can defend new techniques . Old school is king
@chaystafari3228 for someone to say they would be purple belt level was really over the top for me. Jiu Jiitsu has not changed that much. Thanks for watching.
I'm an old, small blue belt. (63 yrs, 130lbs). I trained to blue belt at a Rickson lineage school with one of the "dirty dozen". Due to various circumstances I now train at a different school. I don't know as many different techniques, but the Rickson "hidden jiu-jitsu" focused on the fundamental principles of base and connection are what continue to enable my training and improvement. I am often told I feel a lot stronger and heavier than I look. I'm not that strong, I don't lift at all, but OG BJJ I started with taught me how to feel that way. I can't use a lot of explosive movements without tiring myself out, so I try to be as efficient as possible and conservative in my movement, trying to use only as much movement and effort as is necessary. I consider that the heart and soul of the "art" of BJJ. This is what I was taught. From another commenter: "the old school BJJ camp has less techniques to learn but they hone those down to an effectiveness that is harder to overcome". Yes, I was given the goal of learning and perfecting techniques so well that even when my partner knows exactly what I'm doing they still can't stop me. I often fail, and don't achieve this much, but when I do it feels like magic.
Thanks for sharing your journey and insights. I am 56 years old and know the challenges of Father Time, but I am always inspired to hear the success of people older than me that are still training and enjoying the art.
One would be making a huge mistake to think that Helio Gracie’s > Jujitsu is at a purple belt level in today’s Jujitsu . < Don’t make me laugh > I’ve seen Rickson go through 20 high-level black belts, one right after another . Roger Gracie generally defeats everyone with white/ Blue belt moves .
As a black belt who has been training since 1994 I have to say you are spot on. In a BJJ tournament the legends would have a very hard time surviving today's game. However, when actually fighting the larger, stronger opponents in a self defense situation those same legends would have a much better showing than modern day black belts. It takes a lot of your defense away when you are inverting, using both hands to grab ankles and lapels etc.
My Rickson Gracie experience: My training experience, aikido, shotokan karate, and standing style jujitsu. Out of curiosity, I trained with Rickson when he first came on the scene in the early 90's/early UFC days while, he consulted members of then SEAL Team 6, we went one on one after his seminar, it didn't go well because he countered my ippon-seoi-nage in such a way that it ended with me receiving a spiral fracture on my right ankle because he squatted and took me down from the side, the force of the counter went vertical my ankle rolled out, I still have the X-ray.
I heard that Miyamoto Musashi was only about a green belt with two purple stripes level and that he could never compete with any modern Kendo competitor.
Great discussion but some things were missed. GJJ is about mindset, distance management and exhausting your opponent. GJJ is a different martial art than BJJ. We practice elbow strikes , oblique kicks, palm strikes, punch blocks take downs etc. We work with 5 ounce gloves in our street fighting classes etc. Keenans comments were based on his ego and not really knowing what GJJ all is about. GJJ is for real fighting BJJ is for points and tournaments and there is nothing wrong with that just understand that. In BJJ you want maintain distance in a clinch so you can operate, in GJJ we want to remain close to dimmish the effectiveness of incoming punches. Jujitsu was developed to defend yourself during war not for points. Additionally many sport world champions walk in and train at our school and cannot believe what is taught In GJJ and are mad they never leaned it. They didn't know this stuff existed.
I agree. I’ve been at Valente Bros in Miami for 1.5 years. Valente Bros got their black belts from Helio. We ONLY do self defense. Preparing for being surprise attacked on the street. Distance management, Striking, throwing, and finally ground fighting. On the ground we ALWAYS incorporate the element of strikes and slams. We don’t even know what the rules are for the sport nor what counts as points etc. The professors respectfully tell anyone interested in the sport that there are other schools to train at for that but that our school is not the one for them. Self defense is what Helio had in mind when he developed the art. Rickson and the Valente brothers have continued and expanded on that tradition. It’s what I will continue to practice until I die.
@@carlosleon9581 I train at Gracie University under Ryron and Rener, Helio's Grandsons. We only train self defense period. If you enter a tournament nobody cares, it's not discouraged, but nobody cares how well you did.
Bill "Superfoot" Wallace. Three kicks and four punches. Fastest kicker in the sport. I watched him make Olympic TKD competitors look like novices. The bascis used at the highest levels work. Personally, I like to learn from everyone that I encounter and not ridicule or minimize anyone.
I trained with Rickson the mid-1990s, a great time to be alive. I know for a fact that he tapped some world champions that were near the top of their game in late 1990s and the early 2000s - I could name a couple but I won't - Rickson also submitted ever black belt he faced in competition. But I also know he struggled with a few in training as he got older. His skills today would allow him to destroy 80% of black belts out there. Where he would need to be trained is mostly in modern berimbolo type movements, guard passing against modern guards, and leg locks. There has been an explosion to techniques and strategies and he would need a few years to catch up for the competition arena. Also, people have become much more athletic with high level wrestlers getting into it so that would be an issue as Rickson is not a big guy. I watched Kron Gracie submit a whole room of brown and black belts over 10 years ago. I suspect Rickson would do it much more efficiently. Is he going to toy with muscled world champion heavyweights like Galvao? Of course not. But Rickson would be highly competitive given a new body, youth, and a few years to catch up with the modern game.
The fun thing about this topic is we’ll never get an answer, and in the meantime it gives people lots of excuses to be unkind to one another. While we can’t totally know, jiu jitsu is about jiu jitsu, moving the goal posts and saying “they did it for MMA” reframes the topic. Would keenan and craig jones get killed in MMA? Yes, but that wasn’t the question. Leg entanglements are so integral to the game, and jiu jitsu has evolved so much. If you time machined those guys into current competition, even some of the early EBI’s, they would run incredible risk of leaving with no ACL’s because of how quickly those have evolved. The stakes are as high as they ever have been. The Eddie Bravo vs Royler matches are useful reference points for this discussion as well. Now, if you gave them a year of training, that changes things completely, and they would probably be killing everybody again. It’s just like Dan Gable. Wrestlers love these questions too. If you took 1970 Dan Gable, and dropped him onto a college wrestling mat today, he’d get killed. Technique has moved beyond what was around at the time. If you gave him a year, he’d be #1 in the country again, because he was that hard of a worker but more importantly that dedicated a student of the game.
You make some excellent points that we will never know the outcome because we cannot time travel. There has been a lot of new techniques added to BJJ over the years and it is constantly growing and evolving. At the end of the day I think we should honor Helio Gracie, Rickson Gracie and Dan Gable for their contributions and accomplishments and not insult them by saying they would be low level competitors today. The same way we honor Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, or the Wright brothers even though their fields of expertise have greatly evolved since their passing.
@@semperfortisjiujitsu That is so very well said. Couldn't agree more. They were each fierce competitors, but far more importantly, pioneers, flag-bearers and ambassadors. There is no way of estimating the size of the positive impact on lives all over the world. Laying the foundation for an activity which improves lives and builds community is far more important than any belt.
@@drewgatewood1864 I agree and sincerely appreciate your insights. If you are ever in San Antonio, Texas I would be honored if you would stop in and train with me at my school.
I think many of us agree that people like Gordon Ryan, Marcelo Garcia, Roger Gracie, Lucas Lupri, Andre Galvao etc are some of the best grapplers to be alive, today. Not saying this to discount grapplers from other systems like Judo, Wrestling, Sambo etc, we can give equal praise to legends from those, also- Im a big fan of them (and too many others to name them all, here) and am grateful to them for what theyre doing to evolve the art. And yet the jj of guys like Ryan Hall, Gary Tonon, Bryan Ortega or Kron Gracie, DESPITE THEIR LOSSES is categorically deserving of higher respect because of the context it is used in and developed for. Maybe we dont agree lol but I put EVERY SINGLE bjj athlete who is competing in MMA in a bracket of higher esteem than those doing "pure" grappling. Which isnt to say that Bryan Ortega (for example) is "better" at JJ than Gordon, or more important to jj than Gordon, ust that what theyre doing is different and not really an apples to apples comparison - but if you do want to compare them then we have to put them each in the others arena and see how they do.
@@semperfortisjiujitsu absolutely. And I'll say this, also- one of the most exciting things about BJJ today is that its dipping its toes in so many different waters. Gi, no gi, sub only, "combat" jj (whatever you might think of it lol) ADCC and hopefully the CJI isnt a one-off - the art and sport is putting itself in so many different contexts that its having like an explosion in terms of all the ways its evolving. Not to leave out guys like Tim Kennedy or Jocko Willinc - those guys are looking at it in a very different way than someone from "pure" grappling/sport like Marcelo or even from MMA like Oliveira. And with the growth of BJJ its also bringing in people from other systems (especially wrestling and Judo) and kind of "rising waters lifts all boats" effect. Its a great time for BJJ and grappling, jn general.
like links in a chain, its just all knowledge passed from one generation to the next, a passing a receiving of knowledge , more so than teaching and learning OSS / OSSU. respect and push through ... Circle of Iron is a great movie to understand this analogy
@@richardatkin4615 Yeah, butt scooting should be banned in MMA. No one( causal Saturday night fans) wants to see it and it will get you killed…. It can stay in BJJ sports world, which is okay..
Butt scooting should absolutely be allowed in MMA but so should soccer kicks. If people want to butt scoot then let them but let the other guy kick them in the face. Thats how you find what is valid.
You've summed it up perfectly. I love Formula 1 racing and i can tell you now the drivers of today probably poo their pants having to take the risks of the 70s. Driver deaths much more common place. Basically don't see point of comparing from different eras
I like your points. Just punching alone, being aware of when it can happen, is something that is really far from the mind of a modern bjj practitioner. I like bjj but imo there are several legitimate but different paths in jiu jitsu. At least 3. They are like a venn diagram, they overlap but are not all covering the same things. competition bjj, old school "gracie" jiu jitsu, modern mma jiu jitsu. hobbyist bjj also. To me the most dangerous thing is to focus on competition bjj without any awareness of punches. There is another issue, that over time any martial art or any sport changes, and old (but valid) techniques are forgotten about and new techniques come into vogue. Nogi jiu jitsu is really going in different directions now, it is almost legitimately becoming a different sport from gi jiu jitsu. Rickson could do things that other people do not recognize although they work, the "invisible" jiu jitsu. Also there are many old school techniques that are just forgotten about. Roger won with what Keenan might consider base level techniques. Rickson was an expert at base level techniques. There are techniques that are physical but really are invisible to a person watching. It is possible to be extremely good at jiu jitsu without doing flashy black belt berimbolos. Separate issue that jiu jitsu is not taught the right way.
I agree that the rule set determines everything. If the rules in MMA were NOT no shirt/can’t grab the shorts or gloves, Jiu jitsu would dominate as it did early on. I also agree you can’t compare today’s Jiu jitsu champions with yesterday’s as they were actually fighting. Berimbolo all day long in sport, get KO’d in a real fight. That said, if you practice Jiu Jitsu with strikes you’re basically doing MMA in No Gi and street fighting in Gi (especially when you bring wooden knives, padded clubs, and rubber guns into the mix). You find out fast you’d be a bloody mess, but the other guy might not be able to walk or talk. 😂. Mad respect to the pioneers of our art, including Carlson Gracie, who had a much larger role than I realized. Drysdale has two interesting books on our history.
@ Your video is one of the best I’ve seen on this issue. Drysdale might question how much innovation was actually made from Judo, but I’m certain it has continued to develop over time (just more toward sport and athleticism lately). But what do I know, just getting ready to test for brown belt. 😜
I agree man. This arguments always remind me of the people who debate NBA basketball of today with NBA ball from the 80s and 90s. It’s the same thing. What would MJ and Bird do in today’s game. Would they dominate in an era where they claim players are more athletic than ever. Or are they? Like you said the rules changes in 2015 and before that heavily favor guards like Steph Curry and James Harden and allow offensive people to thrive. BTW, MJ already answered himself 14 years ago. Lack of Defense compared to his era. It’s the same with BJJ. Royce and Rickson trained for brutal strikes…. Both competed heavy in MMA for their time and punches to the face! Yeah, some of the straight BJJ guys that would have known more, but I also believe they could adapt.. And the straight BJJ guys got the foundations for what they do from where? Exactly the original BJJ. I hear the disrespect of people saying Royce would be a purple belt by today’s BJJ game. No Royce, trained and developed tolerance of getting punched in the face! BJJ guys today have the saying of punch to a pure BJJ guys face takes him down a belt. That saying didn’t exist in Royce or Helio and Carlos’ era in Brazil….
The fact is, the "MMA" that the Gracies were going against was very rudimentary compared to MMA known today- the real story here is that BJJ is becoming less and less of a factor in the MMA world-I would argue it is at least 3 or 4 rungs down on what the MMA athletes are training consistently
depends purely on the individual skill speed power endurance and athleticism all play in real fights some people have better instincts and talent for it than others
@semperfortisjiujitsu are you talking about NHB (no holds barred). The weight classes are different then BJJ GI Jiujitsu or even MMA. Traditionally the Kodokan (political body for Judo), free fighting was prohibited...thus jiujitsu was called Judo..... Carlson Gracie JR Jiujitsu May have a fighting base.... for NHB and MMA ...... if you look at the thrid UFC they didn't even know what type of shimwaza Royce did to the Karate expert and the announcers thought it was a juji gatame..... In Brazil NHB was happening for many years about "60," years before it was allowed in the USA.... It depends on who exactly and what type of Jiujitsu they used BJJ, GJJ, JJ are all different styles of Jiujitsu....Also tactics inside of Jiujitsu for example, Passing or guard puller....if you are asking what tactic translates into NHB more...... NHB is different than MMA..... MMA has more rules and weight classes NHB there are less rules. So what rules are set and who exactly? If these questions are not answered then I cannot even ask the other question with any type of intelligence. Who from today, fighting NHB in the past? NHB or MMA? Please more specific
when keenan was talking he was talking about sport jiu jitsu (not mma jiu jitsu) and i 100% agree as pure sport jiu jitsu techniques have grown immensely (its really unfair to compare era's like this in any sport. the fair argument is - if royce rickson etc came up in this era how would they be? its clear they'd still be monsters like roger n kron gracie n kyra gracie etc ). i started in 2005 after the adcc and its insane how much has happened in the gi but no gi sport has grown the most. BUT VERY FEW sport purple belts of today could fight n beat ken shamrock n all those dudes like royce did at his weight all in one night. then continue on in later fights. I say this as a purely sport jiu jitsu BB who's never been overly into self defense bjj
I really like competing in sport Jiu Jitsu and usually compete every year in the Pans American Championships and Master Worlds. At age 56 I do Jiu Jitsu as more of a lifestyle and my wife is also a BJJ black belt, so we just run our school here in San Antonio. I admire both the pioneers of Jiu Jitsu and the modern day sport Jiu Jitsu practitioners as well as the schools that focus primarily on self defense or even the strictly no-gi schools. I really just found it tasteless to say that Rickson and Helio Gracie's skill level was tough purple belt in modern day.
O Gracie Jiu-Jitsu não é um esporte e simum sistema de defesa pessoal avançado e eficiente, onde o poder mental e técnico são trabalhados para obter a autoconfiaça em diversas situações. O Gracie Jiu-Jitsu foi provado e comprovoado ao longo dos anos nas ruas, nos ringues, nos octogonos, nos tatames e etc. Competição nunca foi o foco e sim sobreviver e se defender da violência urbana e etc. Sò tenho a agradecer aos Mestre Carlos e Hélio pela vida dedicada a luta e ao trabalho de desenvolvimento do caráter humano.
First off Rickson , is a different breed ! Cornelius is out of his mind if just say the Rickson of 12 years ago rolled with him , Rickson would eat him alive ! Rickson's son said the last time he rolled with his Dad he said Dad lets go hard I want to see ? So Rickson made him tap about 5 times in 5 minutes . Understand his son was a very high level BJJ competitor at that time Rickson toyed with him . Put that noise to bed already !
It's just a stupid thing for people to say. No one would be doing BJJ today if it wasn't for Helio. The real question should be whether competition jui jitsu has any real worth. Personally I think it doesn't.
Stifling comparison is the thief of joy...Theodore roosevelt.... grappling is part of fighting but it is sport based primarily . .combat jj is the in betwen
@semperfortisjiujitsu yes sir, it was a great game this past Saturday night. You could tell he really has to restrain himself. But it was a nail biter , spurs had an amazing run in the 4th, was blessed to be there in person to see it. And on Jiu jitsu , I know personally I would have never pursued MMA / jiu jitsu if not for Royce. So I hold their lineage to a high respect as well.
@@RENEW-FIT Many people have said Draymond is a bully in a soft era…. 90s NBA star John Starks from the NY Knicks said what Draymond does today would not survive with guys from his era(late 80s and the 90s). Starks said Draymond is in the right era for what he’s doing now.. lol
I think this guy is beating the real answer. I have a question. Im just an American Idiot but we see no pics of count Maeda training together or a belt test. Can someone post something and not just belch words. And did he say lots of BJJ people dont transition into MMA is the exact same as what BJJ n GJJ said about Traditional Martial Arts??
I don't know of any pictures of Count Maeda training with Carlos and Helio Gracie. Back in the early 1920s pictures weren't nearly as common as they are today. I know Count Maeda trained Jiu Jitsu, Judo and Catch Wrestling which ultimately led to the development of Brazilian Jiu jitsu. Not sure if he did belt testing.
@semperfortisjiujitsu dude really they have videos and countless pics of themselves back then and multiple records. I'm just saying this community disregard thousands of other people with lack of physical evidence.
@@WakeRunSleep I have no idea what you are talking about. If you feel that no holds barred is fighting with weapons then the U.S. military wins all those fights.
When I see Keenan beat half the people Rickson beat in no holds barred fights then I will begin to listen to him about old belts not having equal value as todays bjj belts. He's worried about points a lot of people train jj to learn self defense not just compete in a tournament.
Depends what your goals are. Fundamentals are far superior in fighting as has been proven by ibjjf and Adcc competitors having 0 success in modern day UFC (Kron ik it's ironic but he uses NOTHING his elder generation taught... Takedown position submission he buttscoots so I gotta put him here. Ryan Hall, Tonon couldn't even make it to UFC, Davi Ramos etc im sure there's a few more im missing) As where ufcs top ranks were filled with guys who train combative BJJ aka Gracie JJ. Olivera, Burns, Maia, GSP, Rafael Dos anjos, BJ Penn, Frank Mir, Werdum. I could go only but there's no need it's already a blowout. Sure in pure sport grappling they would beat the guys of old but let's be honest are they "superior grapplers"??? Your average BJJ world champion these days doesn't even know a takedown. 🤣🤷♂️
The article that was sent to me was from July of this year and I had never heard the comments he made before. If he has apologized for the comment send me a link and I will take my video down.
@@semperfortisjiujitsu This was back in the Josh Hinger podcast days circa 2019. What happened was a Gracie who lives in the UK(?) threatened to kick Keenan's ass. He got scared and recorded a retraction of sorts. Keenan has since talked about it again and re-iterated that he does believe BJJ has evolved beyond the old school, so he does still stand by his statement.
Thanks for the update. One of my viewers sent me an article from BJJ Eastern Europe from July of this year with the quote and asked my thoughts. I didn't realize he said several years ago. I wish Keenan well, but think his comments about Helio and Rickson Gracie were unnecessary. Thanks for watching!
Morden American Jiu-Jitsu, New Wave (John Danaher / Gordon Ryan) & Craig Jones & B-Team, would DESTROY ANY Gracie in their prime! The Gi is DEAD! It's Submission Grappling. Keenan and the top Gi players in the World would DESTROY any Gracie in their prime! Need we discuss MMA? Kron Gracie shows the World his "Family's style of JJ" in the UFC. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is outdated, and not effective!
I train with in Gi every week how is it dead? Funny look at the lineage for the "Modern American Jiu Jitsu" athletes somewhere in there is a Gracie, how interesting. Keenan would destroy Roger?
For more information on Semper Fortis Jiu Jitsu www.texasbjj.com
I'm a Brazilian of Rio de Janeiro and seeing Rickson Spar it's like see a God doing his work he's soo skilled the Master Rickson are the pure essence of Brazilian jiu jitsu.
Thanks for sharing what you saw firsthand.
I was heard that Roger Gracie uses old school JJ . And he is still in the highest level of today.
Perfect example my friend! I agree that Roger Gracie used what some would consider old school fundamental Jiu Jiitsu and absolutely dominated the BJJ tournament competition circuit.
He's also freakishly big and tall naturally.@@semperfortisjiujitsu
@@teovu5557 indeed he was reported to only shop for clothes at the big and tall stores!
@@semperfortisjiujitsuRoger has talked in the past about rolling with Rickson during his first couple championship runs and getting mauled. Probably in his mid 40s when he was doing that? Quality technique beats quantity of techniques 100% of the time.
@@rstlr01 I agree and very well said. Roger Gracie's style of attack is very similar to Rickson's and Roger absolutely dominated the Jiu jitsu tournament circuit including his superfight with Buchecha a few years ago when so many people were saying that Roger wouldn't have a chance.
Rickson said recently that modern BJJ guys are generally athletes and not necessarily martial artists. They are competition focused and not self defence.
I think that is a fair analysis, but I truly admire many of the modern Jiu jitsu tournament competitors technique and efforts on the mats.
I live in SoCal in a very heavy BJJ area with big names and train at 2 schools. I do this because my original school only trains 3 days a week and I wanted more days to work on my art. So I found a school to fill in for the missing training days. The first school would be directly related to Helio, so close that he feels like family, and the second school you would consider a well known top level competition school. Now, first I will say, I respect them both tremendously and acknowledge that they have both played a part in my current skill level, I love them both. In my opinion, the old school BJJ camp has less techniques to learn but they hone those down to an effectiveness that is harder to overcome. The newer BJJ on the other hand has far more techniques, is light, fast, and less strength based. They are both great but the old school BJJ will be my pick if I am doing this for self defense 100% of the time. They just focus more on the the things you need to win a street fight and they do Judo to help with the takedowns. Surprisingly, they both do very well in competitions. So, IMO Rickson would kill most newer BJJ style guys out there if he were in his 20s.
I really enjoy both traditional old school Jiu Jitsu and modern tournament Jiu Jitsu techniques. I think it is really hard to compare different generations in almost any sport. What really bothered me was the guy saying they would be tough purple belt level by today's standards and to me that was just disrespectful. Thanks for your insights and best wishes in your training.
I get your point but I think if they don’t know how to counter new guards , they wouldn’t get thier offense going . But yah once they can defend new techniques . Old school is king
@chaystafari3228 for someone to say they would be purple belt level was really over the top for me. Jiu Jiitsu has not changed that much. Thanks for watching.
I'm an old, small blue belt. (63 yrs, 130lbs). I trained to blue belt at a Rickson lineage school with one of the "dirty dozen".
Due to various circumstances I now train at a different school. I don't know as many different techniques, but the Rickson "hidden jiu-jitsu" focused on the fundamental principles of base and connection are what continue to enable my training and improvement.
I am often told I feel a lot stronger and heavier than I look. I'm not that strong, I don't lift at all, but OG BJJ I started with taught me how to feel that way. I can't use a lot of explosive movements without tiring myself out, so I try to be as efficient as possible and conservative in my movement, trying to use only as much movement and effort as is necessary. I consider that the heart and soul of the "art" of BJJ. This is what I was taught.
From another commenter: "the old school BJJ camp has less techniques to learn but they hone those down to an effectiveness that is harder to overcome". Yes, I was given the goal of learning and perfecting techniques so well that even when my partner knows exactly what I'm doing they still can't stop me. I often fail, and don't achieve this much, but when I do it feels like magic.
Thanks for sharing your journey and insights. I am 56 years old and know the challenges of Father Time, but I am always inspired to hear the success of people older than me that are still training and enjoying the art.
which of the dozen?
@@gavinschneider7420 David Kama
@@gavinschneider7420blubeltson "el fanfarrão" grazie
@@gavinschneider7420 David Kama
One would be making a huge mistake to think that Helio Gracie’s > Jujitsu is at a purple belt level in today’s Jujitsu . < Don’t make me laugh >
I’ve seen Rickson go through 20 high-level black belts, one right after another . Roger Gracie generally defeats everyone with white/ Blue belt moves .
I agree! The entire idea that they would be purple belt level by today's standards is ridiculous.
@@semperfortisjiujitsu I agree, 100%
As a black belt who has been training since 1994 I have to say you are spot on. In a BJJ tournament the legends would have a very hard time surviving today's game. However, when actually fighting the larger, stronger opponents in a self defense situation those same legends would have a much better showing than modern day black belts. It takes a lot of your defense away when you are inverting, using both hands to grab ankles and lapels etc.
I agree! Thank you for watching and sharing your insights. Have a great weekend!
My Rickson Gracie experience: My training experience, aikido, shotokan karate, and standing style jujitsu. Out of curiosity, I trained with Rickson when he first came on the scene in the early 90's/early UFC days while, he consulted members of then SEAL Team 6, we went one on one after his seminar, it didn't go well because he countered my ippon-seoi-nage in such a way that it ended with me receiving a spiral fracture on my right ankle because he squatted and took me down from the side, the force of the counter went vertical my ankle rolled out, I still have the X-ray.
Thanks for sharing your experience with Rickson Gracie. Hope you have a Happy New Year!
I heard that Miyamoto Musashi was only about a green belt with two purple stripes level and that he could never compete with any modern Kendo competitor.
I almost spit out my coffee reading your post. My favorite post so far on this video and a great analogy. Thanks for the humor and insights.
Great discussion but some things were missed. GJJ is about mindset, distance management and exhausting your opponent. GJJ is a different martial art than BJJ. We practice elbow strikes , oblique kicks, palm strikes, punch blocks take downs etc. We work with 5 ounce gloves in our street fighting classes etc. Keenans comments were based on his ego and not really knowing what GJJ all is about. GJJ is for real fighting BJJ is for points and tournaments and there is nothing wrong with that just understand that. In BJJ you want maintain distance in a clinch so you can operate, in GJJ we want to remain close to dimmish the effectiveness of incoming punches. Jujitsu was developed to defend yourself during war not for points. Additionally many sport world champions walk in and train at our school and cannot believe what is taught In GJJ and are mad they never leaned it. They didn't know this stuff existed.
You make some excellent points. Thanks for watching.
I agree. I’ve been at Valente Bros in Miami for 1.5 years. Valente Bros got their black belts from Helio. We ONLY do self defense. Preparing for being surprise attacked on the street. Distance management, Striking,
throwing, and finally ground fighting. On the ground we ALWAYS incorporate the element of strikes and slams. We don’t even know what the rules are for the sport nor what counts as points etc. The professors respectfully tell anyone interested in the sport that there are other schools to train at for that but that our school is not the one for them. Self defense is what Helio had in mind when he developed the art. Rickson and the Valente brothers have continued and expanded on that tradition. It’s what I will continue to practice until I die.
@@carlosleon9581 You are training at a great place. The Valente brothers are true studetns of Helio Gracie's teachings. Thanks for your insights.
@@carlosleon9581 I train at Gracie University under Ryron and Rener, Helio's
Grandsons. We only train self defense period. If you enter a tournament nobody cares, it's not discouraged, but nobody cares how well you did.
Thank you Sir. Glad the algorithm brought me to your page. Subscribed!
Bill "Superfoot" Wallace. Three kicks and four punches. Fastest kicker in the sport. I watched him make Olympic TKD competitors look like novices. The bascis used at the highest levels work. Personally, I like to learn from everyone that I encounter and not ridicule or minimize anyone.
Superfoot Wallace was amazing and I agree that there is nothing good in trying to minimize anyone. Thanks for watching.
I trained with Rickson the mid-1990s, a great time to be alive. I know for a fact that he tapped some world champions that were near the top of their game in late 1990s and the early 2000s - I could name a couple but I won't - Rickson also submitted ever black belt he faced in competition. But I also know he struggled with a few in training as he got older. His skills today would allow him to destroy 80% of black belts out there. Where he would need to be trained is mostly in modern berimbolo type movements, guard passing against modern guards, and leg locks. There has been an explosion to techniques and strategies and he would need a few years to catch up for the competition arena. Also, people have become much more athletic with high level wrestlers getting into it so that would be an issue as Rickson is not a big guy. I watched Kron Gracie submit a whole room of brown and black belts over 10 years ago. I suspect Rickson would do it much more efficiently. Is he going to toy with muscled world champion heavyweights like Galvao? Of course not. But Rickson would be highly competitive given a new body, youth, and a few years to catch up with the modern game.
I agree! Thanks for sharing your experience and insights. Hope you have a Happy New Year!
Hélio Gracie Jiu Jiitsu forever!
I agree! Thank you for watching.
Well said. Thanks for sharing 😊
Thanks for watching and I appreciate the feedback.
@semperfortisjiujitsu You're welcome!
The fun thing about this topic is we’ll never get an answer, and in the meantime it gives people lots of excuses to be unkind to one another.
While we can’t totally know, jiu jitsu is about jiu jitsu, moving the goal posts and saying “they did it for MMA” reframes the topic. Would keenan and craig jones get killed in MMA? Yes, but that wasn’t the question.
Leg entanglements are so integral to the game, and jiu jitsu has evolved so much. If you time machined those guys into current competition, even some of the early EBI’s, they would run incredible risk of leaving with no ACL’s because of how quickly those have evolved.
The stakes are as high as they ever have been.
The Eddie Bravo vs Royler matches are useful reference points for this discussion as well.
Now, if you gave them a year of training, that changes things completely, and they would probably be killing everybody again.
It’s just like Dan Gable. Wrestlers
love these questions too. If you took 1970 Dan Gable, and dropped him onto a college wrestling mat today, he’d get killed. Technique has moved beyond what was around at the time.
If you gave him a year, he’d be #1 in the country again, because he was that hard of a worker but more importantly that dedicated a student of the game.
You make some excellent points that we will never know the outcome because we cannot time travel. There has been a lot of new techniques added to BJJ over the years and it is constantly growing and evolving. At the end of the day I think we should honor Helio Gracie, Rickson Gracie and Dan Gable for their contributions and accomplishments and not insult them by saying they would be low level competitors today. The same way we honor Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, or the Wright brothers even though their fields of expertise have greatly evolved since their passing.
@@semperfortisjiujitsu That is so very well said. Couldn't agree more.
They were each fierce competitors, but far more importantly, pioneers, flag-bearers and ambassadors. There is no way of estimating the size of the positive impact on lives all over the world.
Laying the foundation for an activity which improves lives and builds community is far more important than any belt.
@@drewgatewood1864 I agree and sincerely appreciate your insights. If you are ever in San Antonio, Texas I would be honored if you would stop in and train with me at my school.
Dogg Brothers Martial Arts adds sticks and knives to their grappling and that changes the techniques that are used immensely.
Weapons absolutely change the fight. Good point.
I think many of us agree that people like Gordon Ryan, Marcelo Garcia, Roger Gracie, Lucas Lupri, Andre Galvao etc are some of the best grapplers to be alive, today. Not saying this to discount grapplers from other systems like Judo, Wrestling, Sambo etc, we can give equal praise to legends from those, also- Im a big fan of them (and too many others to name them all, here) and am grateful to them for what theyre doing to evolve the art.
And yet the jj of guys like Ryan Hall, Gary Tonon, Bryan Ortega or Kron Gracie, DESPITE THEIR LOSSES is categorically deserving of higher respect because of the context it is used in and developed for.
Maybe we dont agree lol but I put EVERY SINGLE bjj athlete who is competing in MMA in a bracket of higher esteem than those doing "pure" grappling. Which isnt to say that Bryan Ortega (for example) is "better" at JJ than Gordon, or more important to jj than Gordon, ust that what theyre doing is different and not really an apples to apples comparison - but if you do want to compare them then we have to put them each in the others arena and see how they do.
You make a very good point! Thanks for watching and for your contribution to the conversation.
@@semperfortisjiujitsu absolutely. And I'll say this, also- one of the most exciting things about BJJ today is that its dipping its toes in so many different waters. Gi, no gi, sub only, "combat" jj (whatever you might think of it lol) ADCC and hopefully the CJI isnt a one-off - the art and sport is putting itself in so many different contexts that its having like an explosion in terms of all the ways its evolving. Not to leave out guys like Tim Kennedy or Jocko Willinc - those guys are looking at it in a very different way than someone from "pure" grappling/sport like Marcelo or even from MMA like Oliveira. And with the growth of BJJ its also bringing in people from other systems (especially wrestling and Judo) and kind of "rising waters lifts all boats" effect. Its a great time for BJJ and grappling, jn general.
@@MP-db9sw I agree! A lot of exciting things happening in the BJJ community and I see amazing growth.
Great response.
Thank you very much
First! Real question is how would they do at trivia at Big Pappas??
LOL! Big Papa's Pizza is the best!
Stop in to one of my shows next time you're in Pittsburgh!
@@RadicalTrivia Every Wednesday I go with a group of friends to eat pizza and trivia. Will definitely check you out next time I am in Pittsburgh.
Very well stated Professor 😊
Glad you think so and I appreciate you watching!
like links in a chain, its just all knowledge passed from one generation to the next, a passing a receiving of knowledge , more so than teaching and learning OSS / OSSU. respect and push through ... Circle of Iron is a great movie to understand this analogy
Well said! Thanks for sharing!
Funny thing is butt scooting is banned in UFC... it's hard to finish someone on the ground with strikes, that's why the ref stands them up.
Thanks for watching! Hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving!
@@richardatkin4615 Yeah, butt scooting should be banned in MMA. No one( causal Saturday night fans) wants to see it and it will get you killed…. It can stay in BJJ sports world, which is okay..
It's not banned, it's gay
Butt scooting should absolutely be allowed in MMA but so should soccer kicks. If people want to butt scoot then let them but let the other guy kick them in the face. Thats how you find what is valid.
@MP-db9sw very true! Well said!
You've summed it up perfectly.
I love Formula 1 racing and i can tell you now the drivers of today probably poo their pants having to take the risks of the 70s. Driver deaths much more common place.
Basically don't see point of comparing from different eras
I agree! Thanks for watching.
very well explained
Glad you think so! Thank you for watching.
I like your points. Just punching alone, being aware of when it can happen, is something that is really far from the mind of a modern bjj practitioner. I like bjj but imo there are several legitimate but different paths in jiu jitsu. At least 3. They are like a venn diagram, they overlap but are not all covering the same things. competition bjj, old school "gracie" jiu jitsu, modern mma jiu jitsu. hobbyist bjj also.
To me the most dangerous thing is to focus on competition bjj without any awareness of punches.
There is another issue, that over time any martial art or any sport changes, and old (but valid) techniques are forgotten about and new techniques come into vogue.
Nogi jiu jitsu is really going in different directions now, it is almost legitimately becoming a different sport from gi jiu jitsu.
Rickson could do things that other people do not recognize although they work, the "invisible" jiu jitsu. Also there are many old school techniques that are just forgotten about. Roger won with what Keenan might consider base level techniques. Rickson was an expert at base level techniques. There are techniques that are physical but really are invisible to a person watching. It is possible to be extremely good at jiu jitsu without doing flashy black belt berimbolos.
Separate issue that jiu jitsu is not taught the right way.
You make some great points. Thank you for your insights and for watching.
I agree that the rule set determines everything. If the rules in MMA were NOT no shirt/can’t grab the shorts or gloves, Jiu jitsu would dominate as it did early on. I also agree you can’t compare today’s Jiu jitsu champions with yesterday’s as they were actually fighting. Berimbolo all day long in sport, get KO’d in a real fight. That said, if you practice Jiu Jitsu with strikes you’re basically doing MMA in No Gi and street fighting in Gi (especially when you bring wooden knives, padded clubs, and rubber guns into the mix). You find out fast you’d be a bloody mess, but the other guy might not be able to walk or talk. 😂. Mad respect to the pioneers of our art, including Carlson Gracie, who had a much larger role than I realized. Drysdale has two interesting books on our history.
You make some excellent points and I agree Carlson Gracie was a ferocious fighter and rarely gets the credit he deserves for his contributions.
@ Your video is one of the best I’ve seen on this issue. Drysdale might question how much innovation was actually made from Judo, but I’m certain it has continued to develop over time (just more toward sport and athleticism lately). But what do I know, just getting ready to test for brown belt. 😜
@FR-ty5vn thanks for the kind words and watching the video. Best wishes on your brown belt.
I agree man. This arguments always remind me of the people who debate NBA basketball of today with NBA ball from the 80s and 90s. It’s the same thing. What would MJ and Bird do in today’s game. Would they dominate in an era where they claim players are more athletic than ever. Or are they? Like you said the rules changes in 2015 and before that heavily favor guards like Steph Curry and James Harden and allow offensive people to thrive. BTW, MJ already answered himself 14 years ago. Lack of Defense compared to his era.
It’s the same with BJJ. Royce and Rickson trained for brutal strikes…. Both competed heavy in MMA for their time and punches to the face! Yeah, some of the straight BJJ guys that would have known more, but I also believe they could adapt.. And the straight BJJ guys got the foundations for what they do from where? Exactly the original BJJ.
I hear the disrespect of people saying Royce would be a purple belt by today’s BJJ game. No Royce, trained and developed tolerance of getting punched in the face! BJJ guys today have the saying of punch to a pure BJJ guys face takes him down a belt. That saying didn’t exist in Royce or Helio and Carlos’ era in Brazil….
We are of like mind my friend. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and thanks for watching.
The fact is, the "MMA" that the Gracies were going against was very rudimentary compared to MMA known today- the real story here is that BJJ is becoming less and less of a factor in the MMA world-I would argue it is at least 3 or 4 rungs down on what the MMA athletes are training consistently
People totally misunderstand donkey guard. Its actually great for self defense, you just need a lighter and a regular diet of very spicy food.
Never thought of that! Thanks for the humor!
Any time, Coach. Liked and subbed. Good luck with the channel.
depends purely on the individual skill speed power endurance and athleticism all play in real fights some people have better instincts and talent for it than others
Good point.
Brilliantly articulated my friend!
Thanks my friend.
Different combat sports weight classes if......?
I am not sure that I understand your question, but Helio Gracie and Rickson Gracie were training for combat Jiu Jitsu rather than sport Jiu Jitsu.
@semperfortisjiujitsu are you talking about NHB (no holds barred). The weight classes are different then BJJ GI Jiujitsu or even MMA. Traditionally the Kodokan (political body for Judo), free fighting was prohibited...thus jiujitsu was called Judo..... Carlson Gracie JR Jiujitsu May have a fighting base.... for NHB and MMA ...... if you look at the thrid UFC they didn't even know what type of shimwaza Royce did to the Karate expert and the announcers thought it was a juji gatame..... In Brazil NHB was happening for many years about "60," years before it was allowed in the USA.... It depends on who exactly and what type of Jiujitsu they used BJJ, GJJ, JJ are all different styles of Jiujitsu....Also tactics inside of Jiujitsu for example, Passing or guard puller....if you are asking what tactic translates into NHB more...... NHB is different than MMA..... MMA has more rules and weight classes NHB there are less rules. So what rules are set and who exactly? If these questions are not answered then I cannot even ask the other question with any type of intelligence. Who from today, fighting NHB in the past? NHB or MMA? Please more specific
when keenan was talking he was talking about sport jiu jitsu (not mma jiu jitsu) and i 100% agree as pure sport jiu jitsu techniques have grown immensely (its really unfair to compare era's like this in any sport. the fair argument is - if royce rickson etc came up in this era how would they be? its clear they'd still be monsters like roger n kron gracie n kyra gracie etc ). i started in 2005 after the adcc and its insane how much has happened in the gi but no gi sport has grown the most.
BUT VERY FEW sport purple belts of today could fight n beat ken shamrock n all those dudes like royce did at his weight all in one night. then continue on in later fights. I say this as a purely sport jiu jitsu BB who's never been overly into self defense bjj
I really like competing in sport Jiu Jitsu and usually compete every year in the Pans American Championships and Master Worlds. At age 56 I do Jiu Jitsu as more of a lifestyle and my wife is also a BJJ black belt, so we just run our school here in San Antonio. I admire both the pioneers of Jiu Jitsu and the modern day sport Jiu Jitsu practitioners as well as the schools that focus primarily on self defense or even the strictly no-gi schools. I really just found it tasteless to say that Rickson and Helio Gracie's skill level was tough purple belt in modern day.
@@user-vc6 Very, very true. And there was no drug testing in those original UFCs! Ken
O Gracie Jiu-Jitsu não é um esporte e simum sistema de defesa pessoal avançado e eficiente, onde o poder mental e técnico são trabalhados para obter a autoconfiaça em diversas situações. O Gracie Jiu-Jitsu foi provado e comprovoado ao longo dos anos nas ruas, nos ringues, nos octogonos, nos tatames e etc. Competição nunca foi o foco e sim sobreviver e se defender da violência urbana e etc. Sò tenho a agradecer aos Mestre Carlos e Hélio pela vida dedicada a luta e ao trabalho de desenvolvimento do caráter humano.
I agree 100% Very well said my friend. Thank you for sharing your insights on Carlos and Helio Gracie.
I think Ruotolos would do well in any of the eras or rulesets you mentioned. However I also think they are a bit of an outlier in some sense
I agree
Their jiu jitsu is more for fighting while today is just sport
I agree.
Great perspective….
Thanks for listening
First off Rickson , is a different breed ! Cornelius is out of his mind if just say the Rickson of 12 years ago rolled with him , Rickson would eat him alive ! Rickson's son said the last time he rolled with his Dad he said Dad lets go hard I want to see ? So Rickson made him tap about 5 times in 5 minutes . Understand his son was a very high level BJJ competitor at that time Rickson toyed with him . Put that noise to bed already !
I agree with you 100%
Lol wtf. Keenan said that on his podcast like 5 years ago 😂
Keenan was wrong 5 years ago and he was wrong again when he repeated this recently according to BJJ Eastern Europe.
It's just a stupid thing for people to say. No one would be doing BJJ today if it wasn't for Helio. The real question should be whether competition jui jitsu has any real worth. Personally I think it doesn't.
I agree with you. Thank you for watching and sharing your insights.
Beautifully stated!
Thank you kindly!
i thought keenan made that statement a while ago ?
I don't follow Keenan, but according to the article from BJJ Eastern Europe which came out in July he made the statement recently.
Great point! Men were men in those days! Why would you want to compare?
I agree! Thanks for watching!
Stifling comparison is the thief of joy...Theodore roosevelt.... grappling is part of fighting but it is sport based primarily . .combat jj is the in betwen
That is one of my favorite teddy Roosevelt quates next to the "Man in the Arena."
Good points!
That said, Draymond Green would have thrived in the early 90's...lol
I agree that Draymond Green would have fit right in with the Pistons or Knicks of the 90s. Excellent hard nose player!
@semperfortisjiujitsu yes sir, it was a great game this past Saturday night. You could tell he really has to restrain himself. But it was a nail biter , spurs had an amazing run in the 4th, was blessed to be there in person to see it.
And on Jiu jitsu , I know personally I would have never pursued MMA / jiu jitsu if not for Royce. So I hold their lineage to a high respect as well.
@@RENEW-FIT Many people have said Draymond is a bully in a soft era…. 90s NBA star John Starks from the NY Knicks said what Draymond does today would not survive with guys from his era(late 80s and the 90s). Starks said Draymond is in the right era for what he’s doing now.. lol
@nmr20067 I hear that. I would agree. It was on a different level then
I think this guy is beating the real answer. I have a question. Im just an American Idiot but we see no pics of count Maeda training together or a belt test. Can someone post something and not just belch words. And did he say lots of BJJ people dont transition into MMA is the exact same as what BJJ n GJJ said about Traditional Martial Arts??
I don't know of any pictures of Count Maeda training with Carlos and Helio Gracie. Back in the early 1920s pictures weren't nearly as common as they are today. I know Count Maeda trained Jiu Jitsu, Judo and Catch Wrestling which ultimately led to the development of Brazilian Jiu jitsu. Not sure if he did belt testing.
@semperfortisjiujitsu dude really they have videos and countless pics of themselves back then and multiple records. I'm just saying this community disregard thousands of other people with lack of physical evidence.
I don't know why there isn't photos of the Gracie family and Maeda together.
2:00 no holds barred is exactly what street JJ is not lol
If you look at the history of Gracie Jiu Jiitsu in Brazil the very foundation of it is no holds barred street fights.
@ hmm in all the old fights in they were all holding their opponent
In Jiu Jiitsu you can definitely hold or grapple your opponent just like in any hand to hand combat situation.
@@semperfortisjiujitsu lol so not no holds barred
@@WakeRunSleep I have no idea what you are talking about. If you feel that no holds barred is fighting with weapons then the U.S. military wins all those fights.
When I see Keenan beat half the people Rickson beat in no holds barred fights then I will begin to listen to him about old belts not having equal value as todays bjj belts. He's worried about points a lot of people train jj to learn self defense not just compete in a tournament.
I agree 100%
Another excellent video! Ends the argument. Most impressively is Saad dropping some serious knowledge of classic NBA all stars. keep it up Saad!
Appreciate that George! I always look forward to your insights and feedback. Hope you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Depends what your goals are. Fundamentals are far superior in fighting as has been proven by ibjjf and Adcc competitors having 0 success in modern day UFC (Kron ik it's ironic but he uses NOTHING his elder generation taught... Takedown position submission he buttscoots so I gotta put him here. Ryan Hall, Tonon couldn't even make it to UFC, Davi Ramos etc im sure there's a few more im missing) As where ufcs top ranks were filled with guys who train combative BJJ aka Gracie JJ. Olivera, Burns, Maia, GSP, Rafael Dos anjos, BJ Penn, Frank Mir, Werdum. I could go only but there's no need it's already a blowout. Sure in pure sport grappling they would beat the guys of old but let's be honest are they "superior grapplers"??? Your average BJJ world champion these days doesn't even know a takedown. 🤣🤷♂️
You definitely make a thought provoking argument and I appreciate your insights.
4th Dan Judo 🥋 🇯🇵
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Etc., . . .
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Thank you so much! We teach both Judo and BJJ at my school and believe they are both great martial arts.
like comparing Muhammed Ali to Tyson Fury.
Ridiculous. Both the best and stupid to compare.
I agree! I think modern day athletes can achieve great things without the need to insult the pioneers and legends of the past.
lol Keenan is a full
He's a loser
Thanks for watching!
way to bring back 2019 lol
I don't follow Keenan, but according to the article from BJJ Eastern Europe which came out in July he made the statement recently.
@ he made the comment in 2019 on the matburn podcast with josh hinger
@ bjee is notorious for digging deep into old stories to start gossip lol
Probably he doesn’t have any respect from his parents also.
I don't know him personally and don't want to insult him. I disagree with what he said, but I respect his success in competition Jiu jitsu.
Dude this story is like many years old. Recycling for sake of easy content?
The article that was sent to me was from July of this year and I had never heard the comments he made before. If he has apologized for the comment send me a link and I will take my video down.
this is so old. Pre pandemic
I don't follow Keenan so it is possible he said it a while ago or has said it multiple times. Since you follow him "has he changed his mind?"
@@semperfortisjiujitsu This was back in the Josh Hinger podcast days circa 2019. What happened was a Gracie who lives in the UK(?) threatened to kick Keenan's ass. He got scared and recorded a retraction of sorts. Keenan has since talked about it again and re-iterated that he does believe BJJ has evolved beyond the old school, so he does still stand by his statement.
Thanks for the update. One of my viewers sent me an article from BJJ Eastern Europe from July of this year with the quote and asked my thoughts. I didn't realize he said several years ago. I wish Keenan well, but think his comments about Helio and Rickson Gracie were unnecessary. Thanks for watching!
Morden American Jiu-Jitsu, New Wave (John Danaher / Gordon Ryan) & Craig Jones & B-Team, would DESTROY ANY Gracie in their prime! The Gi is DEAD! It's Submission Grappling. Keenan and the top Gi players in the World would DESTROY any Gracie in their prime! Need we discuss MMA? Kron Gracie shows the World his "Family's style of JJ" in the UFC. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is outdated, and not effective!
Absolutely disagree, but different opinions make the world go round. Thanks for watching.
I train with in Gi every week how is it dead? Funny look at the lineage for the "Modern American Jiu Jitsu" athletes somewhere in there is a Gracie, how interesting. Keenan would destroy Roger?
Royler couldnt even hang with Eddie bravo who smokes weed 24/7
😂😂😂 American Jiu Jitsu is a joke and New Wave and B Team are filled with guys who do roids. None of those would do well in MMA
@@naakaalastudio6655 These NoGi fanboys are weirdos. Nothing but butt scooters
Jiu jitsu dosent work. Fact.
You don't work. Double fact.
Thanks for your insights.
How doesn't it work please inform us??
@@t_hnsn868 Andrew Tate is that you in there? 😂