I wouldn't say the NOS are "significantly" different, or even better. A blind test would have tricked many here, I'm sure. But if you got them for free, why not. It's good to know that a vintage amp has vintage components in it.
Sounds fantastic! I didn't hear that big a difference between mustard or not, so seems like its only worth while if you are maintaining the vintage look kf your vintage amp 👍🏻
It's great that you got some period-correct caps for the restoration of this amp. NOS anything when it comes to guitar is an interesting subject. People, I believe, are generally biased toward anything NOS being 'better'. But in saying that, I'd sleep better too if I had an amp of that era with the correct caps in it.
I'm going to get some of those mustards so that I can sleep in a bit longer on the weekends. I also think they sound better. Differences here from last spec besides the caps: looks like you went back to a 2.7K bias R on the bright channel cathode, and the "original" 100K Carbon film on the CF has decided to return. NFB R different part same value (nominal). The output coupling caps in this video are doubling in value, from 0.047uF to 0.1uF, but it's not like we're hearing a massive change because the added bass response and slower bias excursion recovery is apparently pretty insignificant (+0.1dB @ low E string's frequency/no clue how much that recovery time is actually changing). Going the other way though, 0.047uF to 0.022uF actually has a larger effect at guitar frequencies (-0.5dB rolloff @ low E, plus faster bias excursion recovery). All this just to say that this video proves to me that doubling the 0.047uF is not a very big change, but I know 0.022uF will make a significant difference vs 0.1uF, giving the amp a slightly more aggressive tone without removing too much bass.
I hear less difference with parts changes on RUclips than in person. At home, swaps sound more extreme. I just finished a very similar project. A replica, using vintage parts.
Fantastic that you have NOS mustards! That’s the coolest part for sure! Tone - very very cool! I’m hearing a tighter bass response with the new caps, which in turn sweetens up the tone and also more clarity, note separation, etc. Good caps make sure a big difference to great tone. Another awesome video dude!
@@HeadfirstAmps oh yeah! That’s gonna sound pretty amazing in a band! Yeah they are loud man. My 50 watt is insanely loud, hence Boss Tube Amp Expander! But that tone is to die for 😊
The mustard caps sounds more controlled, taking the "bite" a little down. Got 1000+++ NOS mustard caps on stock, maybe I get rich when I'm retiring (LOL)
Sounded pretty good with the old caps but the new caps do make it sound better. I wonder how much of that was just changing the 0.047 power valve coupling caps to 0.1 alone.
Is it possible that the change in sound could be attributed to the small variation in component values rather than the mustard caps being NOS / made of a different material? I feel I hear less fizz on the Mustard caps. Perhaps Dijon is the way to go, you could say... Thanks Jason!
I often mod my tube amp. And I can tell You that coupling caps like 1n, which can be 900pf or 1.1nF make a slightly percieved difference especially just after V1A. I often add 47pf or 100pf here or there to achive what I want. If You then sum it up with other value differences and tube selection which are even more uneven You can get two tonally different amps with "the same" components.
Sounds great and the tune green tinted sixties mind ,awesome tune :-)The mustards have a little bit more clarity, your right (as I was editing about the caps you said clarity at the same time I was writing it lol)
Caps in sounded fuller and smoother, whereas out, the amp sounder thinner and slightly harsher to my ears, it is always a perception, an individual point of view
Maybe 'mustards in' slightly richer but that could just be due to a capacitance tolerance issue (or even a wire moved in the modification process!) Maybe one could hear something when actualy in the room, or 'feel it' in the playng. How was the A/B test done? I couldn't hear any difference at all on headphones or my monitors, it just sounded like one take. For all intensive purposes, 'not worth the time, effort or expense'! After all the effort, thanks for posting as it would appear that the myth has been exterminated!! PS keep up the videos please, most useful!!!
Wow I have to admit the mustard's do sound a bit more together. I listened to the chords ringing out at the very end of each clip over and over trying to tell myself it was just placebo effect. My father was an electronics engineer would be shaking his head at me if he were still around! He used to tell me solid state was superior to tube amps and in his mathematical brain that made sense! more reliable maybe. I used to argue it was about the "feel or dynamics" of the tube he finally understood what I meant eventually but he would definitely NOT have any part of me telling him I could hear the difference in a capacitor of the same value!! but it is true I can hear and feel it!! Thanks again Jason for the awesome content!!
EE's tend to trust numbers over what they can hear. Thinkers are more in their head than involved with tactical senses most of the time IMO. They'll always dismiss the difference as being attributed to something unrelated if they hear it at all.
Im surprised. i can hear a difference .my initial thought was that , especially on a phone , there'd be no difference. Im building a 68 plexi soon, and I'll be using some mustard pulls that I've accumulated. I dont have any .68 currently, and ive wondered about using .47 or 1 uf in their place.. to save a bit of cash...
I think the low end sounds a bit tighter,less messy with the NOS Mustards…also more note definition and clarity…it’s subtle,but it’s there…I am sure in the room it’s less subtle….sounds great though..
I’m with Diego, the mustards have less fuzz and seem to ring a bit sharper to my ear. Full band listen would be interesting, I suspect the mustards will produce a better cut through.
Leave that 0.1uF CCs in at the PI, these old JMPs benefit from them drastically. With 0.022uF you need to max the amp out full to get the thickness you expect from an old JMP...
The new caps seem to be to bring more "edge" to the sound and they are a little bit less flubby/fuzzy on the basses... I can be the black sheep here but I perhaps prefer the sound before :P
Mustard's sounded less metalic, and sweeter in the highs. Less strident. The bass seemed a bit tighter. It looks like you alredy had a Mullard cathode cap starting off, so that would make for a more similar sound than if you didn't. Mullard (Phillups,/Bianchi) Mustards, chicklets, and tropical fish have a similar smooth sound to my ears.
Great test. Its easy to trick your mind with the urge to want the mustards to sound better, and I initially did, because I'm reading 'Mustards In'! But if you shut your eyes its really splitting hairs, maybe, just maybe very slightly less harsh? I listened over a few times on my monitors and there's hardly any difference and I doubt many would actually be able to tell in a blind test. However, A '69 with crappy tropical fish or holy grail mustards? Hell yeah Mustards!! They may also take a bit of time to settle in?
Mustard caps are WAY WAY overrated!!! Polyester or polystyrene caps ( ex. shiny brown caps ) sound excellent....just slight tonal difference usually among them. I know because I have A/B'd them in many JMP Superleads of mine. Love your channel ❤! I sleep fine with my Marshalls modded lol! Focus on the tone knob and volume knob on your guitar for real difference!!! Also different guitars, speakers, and power tubes are bigger in tone change by a long shot!
The Mustards sound significantly better. More brighter and biting, which you would want out of a guitar amp as it's a lead instrument. You didn't mention the type of OUT caps! It matters also.
@@HeadfirstAmps I like the Mustards and Polyester...The Mustards are brighter and more growl. The polyesters are rounded and more "sizzle". Polyproplyene are more earthy and raw, but the Orange Drops, I HATE and are sterile and have no character. I like the WIMA PP when going after a more raw open sound, though they are made with the same material. Also, the PP's, like the WIMAs are good for 200,000hrs (last a lifetime), where the polyesters, like Cornell Dubilier are only good for 2,000hr! So, in a nutshell...depends what your going after and final "tone" you're looking for and design! Mustards are cool thou! Oh, and the Vishay 1813s are great, polyester characteristics and 300,000hr!...but again, you have to be targeting that tone, else another variant may be more applicable, In the words of Dave Friedman..."it all depends!" lol But contrary to what Joey says...the tone is significant enough, I can hear the difference, soo....it matters! My $0.02
Hi. I definitely hear more articulation, clarity, the overall tone is warmer, rounder, less harshness. I like it more. A question, what value were the previous phase inverter caps, 100n or 22n?
@@HeadfirstAmps ok. It would’ve been better to compare the amp sound with all values the same as before but I don’t think a .1 would sound too different to a .047 on a guitar amp on that position. Again way better with the mustards. They are way clearer and get rid of kind of high frequency trash. At least that’s how I hear it. Nice work!!
did you measure the mustards to see how on spec they were when compared to the originals you had in there? I 'd be curious how close the synergy and SoZo's are too. What a rabbit hole!! But those mustards really do sound.... er.... Mustard!
I mentioned this on another one of your videos.....have you tried doing the zener clipping ( off the cathode follower) on a standard 1959 or 1987 circuit.....does it have to have an extra gain stage and a normal master volume? What about a 1959 circuit that has a ppimv and a switchable tube buffered effects loop with send and return levels? Would it work in this case....it might be interesting to try....or would it?
Sounds great , Im sure the tone will only improve as the mustards settle in , how does the amp feel with the mustards? Its always great to see / restore these amps to their original condition, She sounds like a keeper
Hi Jay, certainly is a keeper. Funny you ask about the settling in because I could have sworn today it sounded even better, having left it running and playing for hours and hours post this clip.
Hey man do you think carbon comp resistors are with putting in a 1959 build with the evh spec.....if so where would you put them....they would be Allen Bradley's if I use them....
If you've got 2w carbon comps then use them in your B+ line as dropping resistors. The rest of the amp should be carbon film. I had this advice directly from Dave Friedman himself.
imperceptible difference due to margin of error in the caps. these are 99.5% the same, or more. people claiming otherwise are delusional. you could come out and say the a/b was fake and I would believe you
Yeah, I listened without seeing what was what and when it was switched and can’t say I heard a difference at any point for sure. Bottom line- lots of other things would definitely make a bigger difference such as the sound difference of two identical speakers or the difference between two identical pickups etc.
The guys that gifted you those parts are champions, may good karma come their way.
I wouldn't say the NOS are "significantly" different, or even better. A blind test would have tricked many here, I'm sure.
But if you got them for free, why not. It's good to know that a vintage amp has vintage components in it.
A deaf test would trick people.
Old tube Traynors are a great source for vintage mustard caps.
Sounds fantastic! I didn't hear that big a difference between mustard or not, so seems like its only worth while if you are maintaining the vintage look kf your vintage amp 👍🏻
It's great that you got some period-correct caps for the restoration of this amp. NOS anything when it comes to guitar is an interesting subject. People, I believe, are generally biased toward anything NOS being 'better'. But in saying that, I'd sleep better too if I had an amp of that era with the correct caps in it.
Well said!
I'm going to get some of those mustards so that I can sleep in a bit longer on the weekends. I also think they sound better. Differences here from last spec besides the caps: looks like you went back to a 2.7K bias R on the bright channel cathode, and the "original" 100K Carbon film on the CF has decided to return. NFB R different part same value (nominal). The output coupling caps in this video are doubling in value, from 0.047uF to 0.1uF, but it's not like we're hearing a massive change because the added bass response and slower bias excursion recovery is apparently pretty insignificant (+0.1dB @ low E string's frequency/no clue how much that recovery time is actually changing). Going the other way though, 0.047uF to 0.022uF actually has a larger effect at guitar frequencies (-0.5dB rolloff @ low E, plus faster bias excursion recovery). All this just to say that this video proves to me that doubling the 0.047uF is not a very big change, but I know 0.022uF will make a significant difference vs 0.1uF, giving the amp a slightly more aggressive tone without removing too much bass.
Mustards sounds a bit more smooth to my ears. Nice AB test!
Sweet sounding amp! After hearing this time after part 2 the tone it gave me tears in my eyes i love that tone!
I like the rich resonant tones of mustard caps out. But the differences are slight. What you call sweetness is just more presence.
I hear less difference with parts changes on RUclips than in person. At home, swaps sound more extreme. I just finished a very similar project. A replica, using vintage parts.
Fantastic that you have NOS mustards! That’s the coolest part for sure! Tone - very very cool! I’m hearing a tighter bass response with the new caps, which in turn sweetens up the tone and also more clarity, note separation, etc. Good caps make sure a big difference to great tone. Another awesome video dude!
Thanks Jay! I can’t wait to try the amp in a band context…I think I’ll need to take the Fryette PS2 coz the amp is loud AF!!
@@HeadfirstAmps oh yeah! That’s gonna sound pretty amazing in a band! Yeah they are loud man. My 50 watt is insanely loud, hence Boss Tube Amp Expander! But that tone is to die for 😊
Sounds a bit tighter and more defined with the mustard caps but it's a really subtle change.
That was a very cool a/b test with the signal caps. I think the mustard caps were clearly richer and more dynamic. Well done, and thanks!
The mustard caps sounds more controlled, taking the "bite" a little down.
Got 1000+++ NOS mustard caps on stock, maybe I get rich when I'm retiring (LOL)
Fantastic!
i heard a slight difference, but nothing crazy. i think the more noteworthy thing to point out is that theyre period correct, which is awesome
The mustards are nice and crisp.
Sounded pretty good with the old caps but the new caps do make it sound better. I wonder how much of that was just changing the 0.047 power valve coupling caps to 0.1 alone.
Its a subtle difference, but the tone with the mustards was definitely tighter and less fizzy on top. Congrats!
Is it possible that the change in sound could be attributed to the small variation in component values rather than the mustard caps being NOS / made of a different material? I feel I hear less fizz on the Mustard caps. Perhaps Dijon is the way to go, you could say... Thanks Jason!
I often mod my tube amp. And I can tell You that coupling caps like 1n, which can be 900pf or 1.1nF make a slightly percieved difference especially just after V1A. I often add 47pf or 100pf here or there to achive what I want.
If You then sum it up with other value differences and tube selection which are even more uneven You can get two tonally different amps with "the same" components.
Sounds great and the tune green tinted sixties mind ,awesome tune :-)The mustards have a little bit more clarity, your right (as I was editing about the caps you said clarity at the same time I was writing it lol)
I played around with capacitors and preferred the newer 716p
to the old mustards and wizard amps seem to agree with me.
Caps in sounded fuller and smoother, whereas out, the amp sounder thinner and slightly harsher to my ears, it is always a perception, an individual point of view
Maybe 'mustards in' slightly richer but that could just be due to a capacitance tolerance issue (or even a wire moved in the modification process!) Maybe one could hear something when actualy in the room, or 'feel it' in the playng. How was the A/B test done? I couldn't hear any difference at all on headphones or my monitors, it just sounded like one take. For all intensive purposes, 'not worth the time, effort or expense'! After all the effort, thanks for posting as it would appear that the myth has been exterminated!!
PS keep up the videos please, most useful!!!
Awesome Jason !!!!
Wow I have to admit the mustard's do sound a bit more together. I listened to the chords ringing out at the very end of each clip over and over trying to tell myself it was just placebo effect. My father was an electronics engineer would be shaking his head at me if he were still around! He used to tell me solid state was superior to tube amps and in his mathematical brain that made sense! more reliable maybe. I used to argue it was about the "feel or dynamics" of the tube he finally understood what I meant eventually but he would definitely NOT have any part of me telling him I could hear the difference in a capacitor of the same value!! but it is true I can hear and feel it!! Thanks again Jason for the awesome content!!
Numbers don't work so well in audio engineering. The human ear loves imperfections
EE's tend to trust numbers over what they can hear. Thinkers are more in their head than involved with tactical senses most of the time IMO. They'll always dismiss the difference as being attributed to something unrelated if they hear it at all.
Im surprised. i can hear a difference .my initial thought was that , especially on a phone , there'd be no difference. Im building a 68 plexi soon, and I'll be using some mustard pulls that I've accumulated.
I dont have any .68 currently, and ive wondered about using .47 or 1 uf in their place.. to save a bit of cash...
Mustards sound way better. Love the Paul Gilbert too. You're going to have a great plexi when your done Jason!
I can't really tell with youtube compression, all the top end gets that splattery phasing. I think the bass is a bit tighter with them.
Mustards are tighter and possibly more frequency range or highlighted range.
I think the low end sounds a bit tighter,less messy with the NOS Mustards…also more note definition and clarity…it’s subtle,but it’s there…I am sure in the room it’s less subtle….sounds great though..
I’m with Diego, the mustards have less fuzz and seem to ring a bit sharper to my ear. Full band listen would be interesting, I suspect the mustards will produce a better cut through.
Leave that 0.1uF CCs in at the PI, these old JMPs benefit from them drastically. With 0.022uF you need to max the amp out full to get the thickness you expect from an old JMP...
I think I will leave them in!
The new caps seem to be to bring more "edge" to the sound and they are a little bit less flubby/fuzzy on the basses... I can be the black sheep here but I perhaps prefer the sound before :P
Mustard's sounded less metalic, and sweeter in the highs. Less strident. The bass seemed a bit tighter. It looks like you alredy had a Mullard cathode cap starting off, so that would make for a more similar sound than if you didn't. Mullard (Phillups,/Bianchi) Mustards, chicklets, and tropical fish have a similar smooth sound to my ears.
Great test. Its easy to trick your mind with the urge to want the mustards to sound better, and I initially did, because I'm reading 'Mustards In'!
But if you shut your eyes its really splitting hairs, maybe, just maybe very slightly less harsh? I listened over a few times on my monitors and there's hardly any difference and I doubt many would actually be able to tell in a blind test. However, A '69 with crappy tropical fish or holy grail mustards? Hell yeah Mustards!! They may also take a bit of time to settle in?
I think they might, hard to know. But I did think the amp was sounding even better today 😀
Mustard caps are WAY WAY overrated!!! Polyester or polystyrene caps ( ex. shiny brown caps ) sound excellent....just slight tonal difference usually among them. I know because I have A/B'd them in many JMP Superleads of mine. Love your channel ❤! I sleep fine with my Marshalls modded lol! Focus on the tone knob and volume knob on your guitar for real difference!!! Also different guitars, speakers, and power tubes are bigger in tone change by a long shot!
Less bass with mustard, it makes sounding less muddy.
Low strings sounded like they had more definition to me. That's where I heard it the most.
The Mustards sound significantly better. More brighter and biting, which you would want out of a guitar amp as it's a lead instrument.
You didn't mention the type of OUT caps! It matters also.
Hey Robb, I did cover that on the previous parts. They are old Philips tropical fish.
@@HeadfirstAmps k. missed it. thanks for the confirmation, Jason.
@@HeadfirstAmps I like the Mustards and Polyester...The Mustards are brighter and more growl. The polyesters are rounded and more "sizzle". Polyproplyene are more earthy and raw, but the Orange Drops, I HATE and are sterile and have no character. I like the WIMA PP when going after a more raw open sound, though they are made with the same material. Also, the PP's, like the WIMAs are good for 200,000hrs (last a lifetime), where the polyesters, like Cornell Dubilier are only good for 2,000hr! So, in a nutshell...depends what your going after and final "tone" you're looking for and design! Mustards are cool thou! Oh, and the Vishay 1813s are great, polyester characteristics and 300,000hr!...but again, you have to be targeting that tone, else another variant may be more applicable, In the words of Dave Friedman..."it all depends!" lol But contrary to what Joey says...the tone is significant enough, I can hear the difference, soo....it matters! My $0.02
Hi. I definitely hear more articulation, clarity, the overall tone is warmer, rounder, less harshness. I like it more. A question, what value were the previous phase inverter caps, 100n or 22n?
They were 47nF
@@HeadfirstAmps ok. It would’ve been better to compare the amp sound with all values the same as before but I don’t think a .1 would sound too different to a .047 on a guitar amp on that position. Again way better with the mustards. They are way clearer and get rid of kind of high frequency trash. At least that’s how I hear it. Nice work!!
Though I heard the tone become a bit more focused and less ragged .
I think the Mustards do have a bit better clarity for sure. Is it enough to worry about? Not to me if I'm paying for them. But for free? Hell yeah.
Hell yeah
did you measure the mustards to see how on spec they were when compared to the originals you had in there? I 'd be curious how close the synergy and SoZo's are too. What a rabbit hole!! But those mustards really do sound.... er.... Mustard!
Hey Chris, I didn’t check against each original cap but I did measure each Mustard. They were all right on spec.
I mentioned this on another one of your videos.....have you tried doing the zener clipping ( off the cathode follower) on a standard 1959 or 1987 circuit.....does it have to have an extra gain stage and a normal master volume? What about a 1959 circuit that has a ppimv and a switchable tube buffered effects loop with send and return levels? Would it work in this case....it might be interesting to try....or would it?
The mustard Sound is most dynamic and open, the other is compressed. Exist variant in the values?
Would of love to here it cleaner
Haha well i cant tell any difference, but the amp sounds great! I see you have a film and electro over the 820, I do that too - mint.
330uF on the 0.68uF. Evh all the way man!
Did you know that *" Brown Sound "* is referring to James Brown EVH fame, the guy who made the 5150 how name is James Brown, look him up !
I know who James Brown is, but it's not where the term came from. Eddie first used the term in 1978, years before the 5150 was created.
I know mustards generally sound the best, but I can't justify the price. All of that goes out the window when the drums kick in anyway.
Sounds great , Im sure the tone will only improve as the mustards settle in , how does the amp feel with the mustards? Its always great to see / restore these amps to their original condition, She sounds like a keeper
Hi Jay, certainly is a keeper. Funny you ask about the settling in because I could have sworn today it sounded even better, having left it running and playing for hours and hours post this clip.
@@HeadfirstAmpsSome days these amps sound differen for sure .....a phenomenon. Sound great or crappy lol! But we know these amps are the bomb!
Hey man do you think carbon comp resistors are with putting in a 1959 build with the evh spec.....if so where would you put them....they would be Allen Bradley's if I use them....
If you've got 2w carbon comps then use them in your B+ line as dropping resistors. The rest of the amp should be carbon film. I had this advice directly from Dave Friedman himself.
Do you think 1 watt carbon comps would work in the b+?
imperceptible difference due to margin of error in the caps. these are 99.5% the same, or more. people claiming otherwise are delusional. you could come out and say the a/b was fake and I would believe you
Some hear it, some don’t. There is no right or wrong.
@@HeadfirstAmps what if there is?
No difference!! 😇
Yeah, I listened without seeing what was what and when it was switched and can’t say I heard a difference at any point for sure. Bottom line- lots of other things would definitely make a bigger difference such as the sound difference of two identical speakers or the difference between two identical pickups etc.