19th century 38 caliber cartridges de mystified
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- Опубликовано: 12 янв 2022
- This week’s video is called “De-Mystifying 19th century .38 caliber cartridges.”
It will provide all the poop on the evolution of the .38 Colt lineage of cartridges, which led to today’s .357 Mag.
It will also explain why .38 S&W doesn’t interchange with any other cartridge, and became an evolutionary dead end.
I’ll talk about why the “.38 S&W Special” confuses people into thinking it is related to the .38 S&W, when it is actually derived directly from the .38 Long Colt.
Hopefully some folks will find it interesting, but, if I just made it more confusing, let me know in the comments.
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Thanks Mike. I've been a gun guy for 60 years and have never heard as comprehensive an explanation of these cartridges before. You're a natural teacher and I thank you.
I’m glad you liked it.
I agree as well! Very informative Mr Duelist!!! God bless and GodSpeed... 🤠🤠🤠
Rather good job of it.
I knew the .38 S&W Special was developed from the .38 LC which was developed from the 38 SC. What I didn't know that it was originally called the .38 Center Fire (long & short).
@@TheMrPeteChannel That name 'structure' was common. My thought is it differentiated those 'new' center fire type rounds from the previous and less positive rimfire rounds. Also, it manifested the advertising theory of 'new and improved'. At the same time the naming was also proprietary. The .44-40 was formally the .44 Winchester Central Fire, .38-40 was fully the .40 Winchester Central Fire and the .32-20 was similarly named.
On the proprietary nature when the .44 Magnum revolver and cartridge was introduced in 1956, the round itself was developed by Remington. It was 'officially' the .44 Remington Magnum. S&W was working with Remington, built the first revolver to use the cartridge. Much hay was made from that for S&W.
I got into this confusion when I got a Smith and Wesson lend lease WW2 pistol chambered in 38 S&W . Thanks for your video.
I knew a tunnel rat from the Vietnam era who used a 38 S&W webley. He lived to tell me about it in the 80s. It worked.
@@erlycuyler - Was he an Aussie (a "Digger")? The Australian and iirc the N.Z, military were using British weapons for many years. Aussies and some "Kiwis" served in South Vietnam as part of SEATO.
@@gusloader123 No,he was Canadian. Volunteered to go.
@@erlycuyler Hi. Thanks for the reply. There were many Canadians that came south of the Border and joined the U.S. military during the "Vietnam-era" and many served in Vietnam. {The L.A. times did a long article with photos about that in the early-mid 1980's. Something NEVER mentioned by the draft-dodgers and hippies.}
Just last week I was chatting (replying actually) on a USMC page on Facebook with a guy from Manitoba who came south and joined the Corps. 🙂
Thank you for this lesson on the history of the .36 B&C to .38 conversion. What a road.
Thank you Mike for giving us the “Whole Enchilada” explanation on the difference between these historical cartridges. You continue to be an incredible source of knowledge for us amateur historians. Keep those videos coming please.
Thanks!
Well said! The .38 family is certainly versatile, both then and now.
Mr.Foster here: 30 years ago I bought a 38 S@W victory model revolver and bought 38 Special amp to shoot it and of course the the cartridge was to long,that’s when found out that they(the gun) was manufactured for the British during WW 1 and were chambered for 38 SW because it was the same cartridge used in the standard service Webley. Lesson learned.Thanks for your presentation.
Thank you for explaining the difference between 38 colt and 38 S&W .
Great history on the development of the .38!
I love them too break revolvers too. I’ve got several Harrington & Richardson top breaks but mine are in .32 S&W and one in .32 S&W long and one Iver Johnson. I always wanted one of them Harrington & Richardson Defender 925 in .38 S&W just because it is a unique looking top break.
Thank you
Umberti makes Schofield in 38 special
Excellent! That was very interesting and since I'm interested in that type of history it's not boring at all. Thanks very much for the video have a great day and stay safe and keep your powder dry!
Thank you for describing the history and evolution of the 38 Colt family of cartridges. Also, while I’ve known for about 40 years that the 38 S&W is it’s own critter, I didn’t know why. Thanks for that history.
Mike - There is so much history associated with firearms development. Thanks for the clear explanation of this part. 👍
As usual, superbly well done! I have Colts and Smith’s in the mentioned calibers. I have gotten used to reloading all the variants - I found that the .38 Short Colt to be a “wife” friendly round for her to practice with her light weight .38 Special Ruger LCR.
Well if you can find .38 short colt for cheap in your area I don't see why not but if you wanted extra light recoiling rounds it might be cheaper and easier to find .38 special wadcutterd
I never really knew the difference between these cartridges! Thanks for clearing it up for me !
A great video as always, Mike, thank you. I thought I "knew" a couple of things that turn out to be wrong.
Thank you very much for clarifying this very annoying issue. I have encountered RUclipsrs who think and believe the 38 Short Colt and 38 S&W are the same cartridge. Some even refer to the 38 S&W as the "38 Short."
And of course are willing to argue to their last breath about it.
Very annoying.
.38 S&W is very close to 9mm Parabellum though, practically the same length and like a .06 difference in base diameter. I don't about ballisticly, but case dimension wise, they are very similar.
Excellent unraveling of the historic string. Thank you. My Colt police positive further confuses the issue with the barrel stamp of 38 Colt. Just manufacturer stubbornness of not accepting 38 SW for barrel stamp. These pistols in the 1930's were available in 38 Special and 38 SW.
Hello Mike, I am 64 years old and still learning something from your great videos. Keep them coming!
The .357 Magnum is my absolute favourite cartridge of all time. It's a firecracker in a handgun with fine trajectory, and it's a beautiful thing in a lever gun. Can it do everything? Nah, but it is absolutely plenty. It's also probably one of the best cartridges for reloaders. It's equal parts practical and phenomenal.
Well Mike once again you have managed to unconfuse the hell out of me, no small feat! Thank you!
Great job as always. Thank you for your devotion to firearm history.
Excellent subject. I have a Webly in .38 S&W. Shoots nice, low enough power for early shooters. Again Excellent video.
Thank you for this, I love the .38 catridge. Hope all is well
This content is valuable. I hope you protect it by uploading on multiple platforms.
Thanks a lot Mike. Dad once had a S&W Victory model originally chambered for 38 S&W. After WW2 it came back from the UK and rather than changing the cylinder to fire 38 Special, they just punched the chambers out to 38 Special. So, the chambers were long enough to accommodate the 38 Special, but were too wide for that cartridge. So, often we'd have split or sticky cases. Dad eventually sold it rather than replace the cylinder. Thanks for the explanation between these cartridges, it helps to explain our experiances. God bless, Rob
Found that really interesting, Mike. Thanks for making it !!!!!
Hypnotic as always, Mike. Thanks for all your hard work.
Thank you so much for the information and all the work that you do ,I have learned so much from you over the years
This was a real informative video. I happened to see a gun that accepted the 38 smith and Wesson Cartridge and at that time wondered why it was called that. Now I know.
Wonderful video Sir! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Keep up the great work!
Great job Mike, thank you for the explanation and sharing your knowledge!
Thank you! This was hugely informative and cleared up so much confusion for me.
Mike, a great video as usual. I really liked to pic of the first trigger guarded revolver, and the Iver Johnson revolver.
Great video Mike! thank you for this very useful and historical insight.
Well done. I had a very old S&W revolver in 38 S&W. It was a super sooth hand gun with a great trigger, Of all things I used it as a practice gun using Speer plastic bullets and CCI mag primers. It was perfect for target shooting in my basement. A card board box full of rags was the backstop. A fun way to spend a rainy day.
Thanks.
Excellent video. Best explanation I ever heard. The .38 RF and .38 CF / SC I never hear of. People get confused when their revolver notes .38 S&W, so the owner goes and picks up a box of. 38 SPL. I find it now becoming hard in Canada to find .38 S&W ammo. The market is almost gone. Too bad about that.
Thank you, I own 2 .38 S&W one Scott/Webly, and one S&W brought back from England after the War. Thanks
Neat!
So informative as usual. That being said my mind want a different direction, and that is bullet versatility. By the previous videos subject content gave me bullet dementions that sounds as though it would make a great target choice for the cap n ball revolvers themselves. Looks like with information it would work.
Now that being said I have put together some bullet designs with my idol mind of what would call the 4 calibers of percussion revolvers. .31,.36, .44 and .45(ruger old army, possibly dragoon/Walker bullets). I have come up with several designs in each to try. Currently I am roughly 3 weeks away from receiving my first custom mold according to my machinist time line. The first mold is dedicated to 4 different bullets for the .31 caliber. I chose.31 first as this as you know has the least currently available options. The mold is of 3 different designs, and should be at 70, 75, 80,90 grains. My attempt for these designs is to function in the 1863 Remington pocket loading port. This because eras gone baby dragoon, and the knock off there of brass mold doesn't fit. These bullets have more a modern design. This comes from my background of the early 1980s of using gascheck design Keith bullets in my remington as my grizzly country sidearm as I was to young to own modern handguns.
Now for the question... would you be interested in taking a look at the first 4 attempts of.31 caliber bullets after mold some? When this mold is recieved I will order a. 36 caliber, so on so on as budget allows.
sure
Thanks Mike for a great video. In Elmer Keith's book "Hell I was There" he says that when he was growing up there were a lot of old civil war veterans living in his area. According to them the .36 cal revolvers were just as good at stopping as the .44s were.
A complicated history made understandable and interesting. Thanks for posting.
Thank you Mike. Very informative. I appreciate you and your channel. Thank you.
Thank you, a particularly interesting and informative presentation.
Thanks for the detailed and clear explanation. Another gem.
Mike, I love your channel. I think you’re a stand up guy, and time and time again I find myself finding my way back to your channel. You’re extremely knowledgeable and do a straightforward, easily digestible, fantastic presentation. I’m sorry about all your recent issues with duelists den, and sincerely wish you the best. It’s amazing how I could watch your channel for nearly a decade and then turn around and find so many old videos that I’ve never seen. Thanks for all the fantastic content!
Excellent topic Mike. Enjoy your program. History is my favorite subject, especially Firearms history.
Thank you for adding color and detail.
I recently inherited a 1939 Enfield No2 Mk1* chambered in 38 S&W and have taken it to the range along with a modern Colt Cobra Target chambered in 357 / 38 special.
I find the juxtaposition simply amazing.
Liked, shared and subscribed.
ThankX for the great concise run through of the “.357” - .36 ball to .38 metallic cartridge history.
With all the new “plastic” handguns; I just like reloading and plinking with mild .38spl.s
Hoping, wishing and praying for reloading components to be available - loved your run through!!!
Thanks Mike. Very informative as always.
Another excellent presentation. Thank you Mike.
Awesome video. This explains things very well. I recently bought an 1898 Colt which just reads 38. I struggled to find the right ammo components. What I ended up making to shoot was just affirmed by your video. Thank you.
You brought back a memory. When I first got a cartridge handgun 18 years ago it was a Colt Official Police from 1944 (proofhouse). I knew next to nothing about handgun ammo. I went to a Houston gunstore one day and ask for .38 Special ammo. They gave me a box of one brand like Winchester .38 Spl and another called Remington .38 S&W (yeah) and told me both will shoot in my gun. Imagine my surprise when I got home and examined these shorter .38 S&W rounds...but then realized they would not fit into my chambers. I took them back the next day, the store owner apologized and said his employee made a mistake and those rounds are a completely different round from the .38 spl family. LOL
Thanks for the great video I’ve never got around to getting a 38 special but I do have a 38s&w forhand revolver always just assumed the 38special came from that family cool video!
Good one mike thanks for a good tutorial on the history of the .38
Rhanks for the clarification. Thank you for making it interesting to watch !
I really enjoyed your very detailed overview of this cartridge family. However, you forgot to mention the final iteration, and the "red headed step -child" of the family, the extremely short lived 357 Remington Maximum, which was a lengthened version of the 357 Magnum.
Exactly what I was looking for... Great video
Very helpful. Great video.
Good video. I think I have an old S&W M&P that says on the barrel. .38 Special and .38 Army (I think). So I always thought it was the .38 Long Colt too. I’ll have to look the next time I open the safe. I looked it up and the revolver was made in 1906. I also seem to remember reading that Pershing order .38 revolvers for his staff.
My Colt pre WW1 civilian is marked' Colt Army Special 38.
This is great info as always Mr. Bellevue! I have a 51 navy with a conversion cylender and first tried 38. Long Colts in it. They keyholed at 10 yards. I think the modern makes may not be heel based, though I have not downloaded one. Loaded up some lead wadcutters in 38 special cases and it resolved the issue. The next experiment is to load the LC cased with the wadcutters.
Love this channel! Really scratches my history gun itch! The way "tales of the gun" use to before the history channel went to crap
Oh, I'm sure the reason the US Army specified the dimensions of the .38 Long Colt cartridge for the new revolvers was so they could use any existing stocks of that cartridge as well as the new .38 Special cartridges it was chambered to use. For all the money the military infamously spends, never underestimate the power of military bean-counters to want to use up old stocks of stuff that are already on hand. BTW, the whole story was very nicely explained, thank you.
I agree. That is my thinking as well.
That's why the M1 Garand was switched from .276 Pedersen to 30-06 at the last minute.
@@TheMrPeteChannelnever even heard of that Pedersen round , I have to look that up now
You explained it well, thanks!
Fantastic and interesting video. Thanks MIKE 👍.
Thanks!
Thanks Mark!
That cleared a LOT of things up!
Alot of knowledge here. Great vid. My gpa gave me a hopkins and allen 38s&w and i learned alot here. He always said it was a 38 short. But obviously now i know its a 38s&w.
youre my favorite new smaller gun channel. keep it up.
Thanks!
thanks for all the info. didn't know about .38 S&W
Thanks for another informative video, I love hearing about old cartridge development.
I'm glad you liked it.
Always learning from your videos. Thanks for the knowledge
I'm glad you liked it.
Impressive amount of knowledge. I bet it took some time to acquire.
Beautiful presentation !
Very interesting! Thank you 👍🏼
I just started reloading for the cartridge conversion in .38 A.KA. .36 cal. And your right Mike there is some very Poor / Bad Information out there about the .38 caliber family line up. I want to thank you for helping me along the way when I first started out reloading for the conversion. Thank you Mike. You are the go to guy, Ha Ha..
I knew some of what you went through here with good sized gaps. You filled those gaps in very well with this video. Thanks.
I'm glad you liked it.
Very well put together.
Another enjoyable history lesson. Thanks for this.
Just woww , Mike you explained so perfect well 👏, I own Smith and Wesson victory revolver and till day now I was confused with 38 s&w and 38 special no know exactly the main difference . Love the way you explain with that much details .
Thank you for explaining this...its really quite fascinating.
Awesome video! Very informative.
I"m glad you liked it
A very good presentation, thank you. I'd like to see the same lineage presentation of the .32 caliber cartridges if you're so inclined.
I'll vote for that too. I remember a friend of mine had just acquired an antique pocket revolver in .320 British and, whilst visiting Albuquerque, I was able to find some suitable brass for him to hand load.
Very good explanations. Thank you.
I collect S&W handguns. (and some Colt's too!) I have a few chambered in .38 S&W. I have trimmed .38 Special cases and loaded them with as-cast 158 gr. round nose bullets that come out about .360" and light powder charges for fun shooting. They work well. Accuracy is OK, good enough for fun shooting.
I also have a Colt Official Police revolver chambered for .38 Special which will also chamber and fire .38 S&W (most of the time). My brother in law has a S&W Model 10 that will also do the same. Some .38 S&W cartridges seem to run a little small and some .38 Special chambers seem to run a little large. The difference in size is just about within the +/- manufacturing tolerances.
Thanks Mike, for this very informative video on the different .38 cartridges, including the background history of "Short Colt" and "Long Colt" designations. Having been a student of firearm development for many years, I found this clarification course on the .38 was most interesting and informative. In the early years of my law enforcement career, the .38 Special was a very popular cartridge with many agencies. The old .38 Police Load, using a 158-gr.Lead Round Nose bullet, that was loaded at standard specs, was/is a round that has survived a 100-year-plus lifespan. Cartridge development, that could, and did, change the standard .38 Police Cartridge, into a good self-defense round for law enforcement and civilian alike. This cartridge development would get off to a start during the early 1970's.My PD issued the Smith & Wesson Model 10-5 for duty carry. A blue steel, 4-inch standard barrel, .38 Special Service Revolver that was used by many agencies in 1971 when I started. You could carry your own revolver if it met the few qualifications needed for duty carry. For myself, a post-war production Colt Official Police. Same general specs as the Departments Model 10-5, and a revolver that had a "legendary" reputation as the ultimate cop's .38 Special Duty Revolver in pre-war times, going into the late 1940's before the rising cost of labor would make Colt go to a easier to manufacture service revolver. The life of any law enforcement service revolver depended upon the large contract bids that came from the police departments. In short, the Official Police was a revolver that demanded the skilled services of the Colt Master Craftsman in its development and subsequent sale. The trigger-action was "hand-honed" and "hand-fitted" by this Colt Craftsman. The fitting of the side plate to the frame was a time consuming affair and a chore "NOT" for the assembly line employee to do.Mike, sorry for straying away from your excellent .38 history lesson. Most interesting for sure. I carried the OP for the duration of my lawman's career. Grand-fathered in with it in 1992, when we converted the semi-automatic pistol. In the last years of my cop carebrmy old 4-inch Colt, really drew much attention at our yearly Qualification times from many of our youthful officers, many had never handled "real" cop's gun before, the .38 Special Revolver. Spanking their backside at Qual time was a real treat for an old six-gun cop. For qualification, I would use the old .38 Police Load to shoot because of its inherent accuracy. Sorry for the length Mike. My old Colt was "the ultimate" cop .38 duty revolver.
Thank you for this! Very illuminating!
Glad you liked it.
Well done, Sir. Thank you.
Finally, now I understand and it isn't as convoluted as i thought it might be. Thanks!
Excellent, much needed explanation.
Good video Mike, something that need clarification for quite some time.
Really interesting, thanks Mike.
I love your historical videos
Awesome, thank you for another very interesting and informative video.
Great video! Enjoyed it.
Thanks!
Confusing as the subject is, this was a very good explanation.
Thanks!
Thank you for a very informative video!
I learned more in twenty plus minutes then I have my whole life (60 years). Great video. Thanks
Interesting history! Well done as usuall.
Many were lain low by smaller caliber projectiles right up into the time of the great war today 9mm is looked at as anemic or a baseline defensive cartridge but when it was introduced it was considered pretty powerful. I believe the .38 and its offshoots were very forward developments I carry .38 +p in a modern .357 revolver a lot of the time after much deliberation I've come to the conclusion it still holds it's own.
I am a 1977 baby and I wish that I would able to acquire this information from you back in 1987, you are worth your weight in Platinum for the information and knowledge you carry I look forward to more of your videos
Good information Mike!
Thanks!
Thanks Mike 😀😊😀👍🏼
Fantastic info! Thank you.
Thanks!
Very good and very informative and interesting video. Thank you.