Hey all. To answer some of the common questions: 1) These OE tyres are only currently available in the G80 sizes, so 275/35 R19 front and 285/30 R20 rear. 2) If you have a really old OE tyre, it's likely a new non-OE tyre is better, see this video for reference ruclips.net/video/-JLvNj3z3oY/видео.html 3) These can be bought in the usual channels just like any other OE tyre, there's usually a few % more expensive. There's also a shortage of these tyres currently. I think that's it. Don't forget to review your own tyres over at www.tyrereviews.com too 😁
Forgot to ask sir, the star in the name to spot the original, only in Michelin? How do you spot an original or aftermarket for example in Hankook, Pirelli or Continental. ( I have bought theese tyres and equiped my cars by your recomandation and i was satisfied by every one )
@@footballtiktoks7886 * is bmw specific certification, when it comes to ordinary, non m bmw models, you can see plenty of choice of * certified tires from various tire manufacturers. Every car manufacturer have their own label for tires, for example mercedes puts mo on certified tires.
I know they're not meant for it, but I'd be interested to see how these compare to the aftermarket 4S on a front wheel drive platform (such as the Golf/GTI)
Absolutely brilliant level of information, thank you for the continued incredible detail and knowledge sharing. I found that fascinating, and I'm sure I'm not the only one!
Lots of eyes have now been opened. I never knew that OE tyres were any different to their retail equivalent! And I had lots of cars over the last 20 years. I wonder how many people actually know the work behind the scenes for years in order to achieve what the carmaker reckons is the best match for the car. Keeping it to only a handful of people makes it a very undersold/underrated competitive advantage for both carmaker and tyre manufacturer. At the same time, isn't it false advertising? How many people will even know that there's a STAR to look for on the tyre apart from everything else? 🤔
@@stevenswann3254 I like this guy. He is so pragmatic and analytic - and really appears to have a good butt for the drive feel. I have had a little try on tyre testing and I can tell the subjective tests are really demanding. You really need to be a talented driver to feel the difference between two good tyres. You can easily feel a difference of a lousy and a good tyre but to be exact and repeatable between almost equal tyres is really demanding. And you need to be able to change the driving style - you need to be good at straight braking as well as in trailing. You need to be able to shift between early and late apexes and find repeatedly minute differencies. This guy seems to have all this. One of the best, perhaps the best independent tyre test CREW is the Testworld from Finland. It was originally some car journos of a tech mag who set the company. Since then they have created huge test facilities in Ivalo in Lapland. Of course their hyperexpertize is in the winter tyre segment but they also do a lot of testing for tyre and car companies around the world. And there has also been some freelance spin offs from Testworld e.g. Micke Bergman Engineering Ltd. Micke works for many companies. And if you ever go to the Ring you will find an army of testers there for almost all the car and tyre makes. Some of them are for one brand some are like hired guns, mercenaries of the trade.
just brillant ! For all the BMW XDrive Owner: The reduction of variance of the side wall for OE Tire is very important to avoid costly damages on your xdrive system. With cheap tire with high variance the XDrive System thinks there is a permanent slip and is managing the whole time the power between the axle (that's what meant in the video with the sensitivity). Such AWD System are actually not designed for permanent slip.
When i have bought my first set of Michelin for my city fun shopping basket, i was shocked completely. The car just simply turned into something very different, i can spin it around on edges, i can put it everywhere even with a mm away from the previous line, i can feel every move the car makes, i know immediately when it starts slide across/broadside and i can limit it by the speed, and i have full trust in my tyres. After this video i am completely convinced that they KNOW everything ABOUT TIRES AND they can make everyhing out of rubber whatever they want. i am not a fan of Michelin, neither of any other tiremaker, but where the innovation comes from there is self-confident knowledge and you might be sure that you get more than you expected.
It would be really interesting to do the same test with porsche specific and non Porsche marked tires. There is always a bunch of discussion on this topic in porsche circles. :)
Porsche uses tires that are a little more than half tread so they wear out faster. Factory motorcycle tires do the same thing. Perelli is famous for that.
This is one of your most informative videos. Always wondered this. Thank you. FWIW, everyone that knows me (that isn't a racing friend) thinks that I am the tire expert and always consult me for tire recommendations. Little do they know, I'm only tire smart because of this channel...
This single video turned my decade+ long car-enthusiast level knowledge of tires upside-down. I have to throw away most of I thought I knew (and others around me thought they knew) and rethink my choices of tires. It also makes me sad that such information (what kind of compounds, exactly, are used, where they are used etc) is extremely hard to find when buying tires and instead we get marketing... Amazing video.
I would love to see a video going for a comparison of the same brand comparing the different classes of tires and how they perform to help decide how much of a trade off on performance we are sacrificing for the sake of comfort and treadware (i.e. PS4S vs PS AS4 vs CrossClimate vs Primacy vs etc.).
I agree! I had the Michelin Primacy HP as the standard tyre on my Toyota 86 and they are borderline dangerous in everything but dry roads. Swapped out for some Pilot Sport 4 and they’ve taken away some of the fun of the car
Using the car especially when it rains ( with good weather I use the motorbike) , I'm very interested in the wet behaviour too, and I agree with you! Don't think I would trade a better wet behaviour for a better dry performance...
@@petermoygannon698 the point is that most tyres are capable in the dry, some are stickier with shorter mileage available, but the main difference is wet weather performance, even if you’re driving slowly on your bike or car in the wet you will need on occasions to suddenly corner and brake and you’ll need grip. You wouldn’t want to do that with slicks on. You can drive perfectly well on road tyres in the dry that are below the legal limit and have dry grip. Wet weather performance on road tyres is more important than dry performance otherwise road tyres would all be slicks and pretty much just be differentiated by varying compounds.
Wow, that’s a lot more differences than I thought. Different compounds, different constructions, and even different tread patterns - they are basically different tyres.
I'd actually love to see both your entire interview with the development engineer from Michelin and raw footage from the driver's point of view of each of your fastest laps. Would it be possible to supply this sort of content in the future? Absoluely loving your videos! Great work, keep it up!
I am a former owner of a performance tire shop with 15+ years experience and certified technical specialist for Bridgestone, Continental, Michelin, Goodyear and more. I disagree with the overall statement of the video. Yes, on an M Car for someone who wants to drive on a track, the OE tire will offer benefits, but it assumes you like the designed handling of the car on the tire and will drive it frequently in those conditions..which almost no one does. I have also seen non N-Spec tires cause vibrations at extreme speeds when installed on some 911s (220 kph+). That being said the vast majority of OE tires on on most vehicle supply a compromise on many levels delivering a tire that is not significantly good or bad anywhere. It must also work for every road type and surface type in all areas of a continent. Most significantly, OE tires are most often chosen for rolling resistance to lower a manufacturer's CAFE requirement. In 98% percent of cases, customers can enhance the things they like about a car by changing from an OE spec to something better suited to their driving preference, area where they live and type of driving. My 2 cents
Especially old asian people 🤣🤣 me mum in law has her car tyre going bald and the next tyre she chose was a 2nd hand tyre, saying "it's just tyres if it can run on my car it's okay"
For most people, that is exactly what it is. Most people do not need tires like this. Nor do they want to waste so much money on something that they will not get use out of.
@@thomascarpenter5536 Indeed, but there is a big differences in emergency between tyre from some unknown brand from China to something like Falken ZE310, which it's a budget tyre as well. The price difference is very small but the performance, for the general public, can be huge in emergency.
so the know what tyre to buy again the name sells the tire the tire sells the car in the mc industry for example, we get partly grippier oe tires with less tread depth than the aftermarket version
Wait what, so the same tyre name is actually totally different. First ive heard about this. Thats really not right. One tyre is basically fake. They should be idenentical if they're both called pilot sport 4s. I used to like pilot sport 4s's, but its put me off buying again purely for the reason that I hate companies that bulls#@t and lie to their customers.
Agreed, that much more work put into it. IT IS a different tire and everyone wins by having a different name. When listed side by side on a catalog it's not obvious why someone should buy the more expensive version.
What a great video!!! I never thought about comparing OEM tires to their base tires, and then testing them on an actual track. It's wonderful to get such a detailed analysis of the difference. Thank You so much!!!
Agreed...we're rarely get to hear this kind of detail on performance tires. It's usually just named then the journalist moves on to other numbers and details. Great geeky stuff imo.
I know video is a year old, but I just stumbled upon it and it's awesome! Thank you for breaking this down, no one ever explained the differences! OE is impressive for sure!
The same exists with the Pilot Sport Cup 2. Shelby GT350 has one compound and tread design, while the GT350R has has a different compound and tread design. Then Porche has an N-spec version and there is yet another general consumption design.
Yep, I did just this when I bought a Mitsubishi p/u back in 1987. I went back 3 times and bought wheels and tires for that truck from the dealer. $150.00 per set back then. Those 3+ originals lasted until it had over 150 thousand miles on it,Then it had 151+thousand miles on it, I traded for a Jeep Cherokee as my wife began working for the county health dept on the road,4x4 etc.
Agreed. The new UHP Bridgestone potenza sport is available in a huge range of sizes including 17", although from Tyre reviews TOYT, i got the impression it leans slightly closer to cup 2 than PS4.
@@thomasfrederiksendk Are they aftermarket? All material I have found suggest the Honda E with 17" wheels comes on the regular PS4. Apart from Evo (which is trusted, but I actually think is wrong in this instance).
@@TroyHR123 My papers say PS4S, but let me double check when my summer wheels go back on in two days. You may very well be right given the quality of the dealership documentation…
Thanks for this great video. Beside that it is good (but credible) advertisement for BMW (Freude am Fahren) and Michelin, you proove to be one of the best tyre testers on youtube.
Back in the late 80’s, I bought a set of 16” wheels with GoodYear Gator Backs and installed them on my turbo Buick. Huge improvement by any measure! That tire was the beginning of great tire tech!
Hey Michelin, Hell yeah I’ll buy it Love this channel. I love that he’s passionate about tires that translate to lots of good, useful information from a happy guy
This is very in-depth analysis of two “identical” tires, well not so much. The fact the the same tire when developed for an OEM has a ton more engineering involved to ensure the tire helps maximize the chassis, super video- thanks
This is an awesome video. I love how much you love it!! I always go for the * on my BM and the AO on my Audi. Glad to know there is a difference. Would be interesting to see the same with some of the other manufacturers. Quality work from Michelin on the invitation to you. The obviously were confident.
I wondered as if this was the same with N-rated tires. Hopefully they get the chance. As always, the internet isn't satisfied with the great info Tyrtereviews already provided ;-)
I am an avid tyre learner but I am so humbled as I had NO idea that there was a difference between a tyre offered as OE or if you bought it aftermarket. Thanks for this knowledge
I wonder how long the Michelin engineer laughed when vauxhall said, 'we'd like you to work alongside us to perfect the Mokka's driving and handling characteristics!' Great video!!!!!!
Thanks for the videos you make. You're one of the best reviewers. I have been researching which tyres to fit and navigating all the crap videos on youtube from people who think they know what they're talking about. Then I found your channel and finally, someone competent!
Love, love loved that review! I learnt so much. Please Michelin, find a way to marry that OEM tyre's steering feel and response with the PS4/4S grip - wet and dry. That would be my perfect tyre.
Great video! A few years ago I put non-N0 rated PS4S's on my 911 C2S and the sidewall felt soft and disconnected like I was driving a minivan (kind of what you describe around 5:50 in your video). They now offer a N0 rated PS4S in my sizes, so I will be giving those a shot based off this video - thanks!
How amazing and interesting this all is is very obvious just by your manner of speech. I love the data and everything, but watching someone genuinely having fun is always a great experience. Amazing video.
Yes Michelin, please make this tire for my 370Z. Thanks Jon for highlighting the same deficiencies of the PS4S in this kind of car with spirited driving in the dry as I've noticed in my Z. By the time the tread wears down on my PS4S tires perhaps Michelin will have the PS5S out. I would rather not have to go to the Cup 2s, but I will if there isn't anything better in the PS 4 or 5 series. Otherwise I might start looking closely at what Bridgestone and Yokohama have to offer.
Amazing intel that confirms what I've been feeling for years. Always go OE in my supercars: they feel faster, more responsive and more engaging with the road.
Thank you so much for this interesting test. It a pleasure to see how happy you are with the 4S*.. Actually I have made the same experience with PSS vs. PSS* on the M3 E92.
Very interesting difference between the OEM and non-OEM versions, far more than I would have expected. While these specific tires are not useful to me (as I don't own a BMW M3), I'm always interested to see how these high performance tires perform which will be helpful when it comes time to replace the Continental Super Sports on my Civic Type R. One thing I'd love to see covered are some older car tire sizes. I need to replace the tires on my 97 Honda Accord which uses a now uncommon 185/65 R15 size and while I've always used Michelin tires on it (currently Primacy AS) I'm not needing to consider other brands for that size (when I look I only see Defender and X-Ice fitments from Michelin) or switching to a wider tire size that still fits on my 6" wide wheels and doesn't interfere with the suspension.
The only thing is you will never know as a regular consumer if you are actually getting OE tires if you ask the dealer for them! I’m positive they are more expensive so I’m sure most dealers would say yeah we gave you the OE and really give you a set of standard Pilot sport 4s when you replace the tires, and keep the extra money 🤔.
Excellent video and very interesting! Awesome of Michelin to invite you out to test and explain the technology. Definitely mimic your findings with our own G80 M3, and great to uncover something we’ve long thought that the tyre is also being tuned to the cars desired performance. We noticed similar with the A90 Supra, the Super Sports on that are leagues ahead of the regular aftermarket one we used to love until the PS4S came along.
Love Pilot Sport 4S, my XE S is so much more predictable in the dry and especially in the wet now. No random breakaways vs the oem tyres, nice and predictable...
I switched from the OE summer tires on my ST to Conti all-seasons. On long journeys here in the US, weather conditions can change drastically in the course of a day due to mileage or altitude. A specialty tire like the GY F1 asymmetric is fine in a narrow environment but doesn’t have the performance range needed on the highway.
And I can't even get a 4S for my car (M240i) here :( I don't get the size/type/region restriction reasoning... Excellent review, one can see the sparks in the eyes = this is a real deal :)
@@tyrereviews May try this one as well or go the "Civil" route with regular 4 (non S) just to try the more regular feel. MPSS are great, no doubt, but as soon as the temperature drops and roads get wet, they ask for trouble 😕 Will be a tough choice...
Just replaced all 4 tyres on my X6M50d with the ones the car was sold: Dunlops Sport GT Maxx RFT *. The answer from BMW was : factory tyres Yokohama but at selling point OEM tyres are fitted. Always stick with OEM tyres as aftermarkets may invalidate your insurance/MOT- please check with your insurers.
Love this stuff. It would be really interesting to see the comparison between the standard, and other manufacturer specific PS4S (as K1, K2, MO,*). Recently fitted the K1 version, and they are pretty different, too...
I have some experience with the Cup 2 in Oe, M0, K1, K2 and N1 specs. The oe is the baseline cup 2 and the one every other one will be referencing. The test car I used was an Camaro SS 1LE. And these are just based off my feeling from driving on the road, autocross and track. Starting off the M0 for AMG, the sidewall is stiffer than oe, there is a smaller than oe spacing between the groves for improved wet performance, the compound is not as soft and tacky as the oe which for heavy cars like amg and the Camaro work great, the sidewall is slightly stiffer than an oe cup 2 as well due to needing to support fat heavy cars. The K1 and K2 are both Ferrari spec. The K1 is for the 458S and the k2 for the 488Pista and the different character from those cars show up in the tires. The K2 is far far more agreesive than the K1. The K1 is similar to the M0 in tread pattern with a sticker compound than M0 and softer side wall. But the K2 is like a cheater tire. It has probably half the tread grooves as the M0 and K1 with an absolutely massive outer shoulder. It has the softest compound that I tested and it actually produces noticably more dry grip than the others. Lastly the Porsche N1, has a super advanced and soft compound like the cheater K2 Ferrari tire but more designed for longevity. The tread pattern is more standard having more grooves than the K2 but still having a widended outer shoulder. It has a semi soft firm side wall compared to the oe and k1, allowing a little bit of flex bit still supporting the load well. I know it's not 4s but it's all I've tried. Keep in mind these are not facts from Michelin rather my feeling from the drivers seat. Hope this helps I've never seen this info anywhere else.
@@memememine1 dude this is amazing data! It will probably get lost in the comments which is sad, could you put it up on the site? I can bump it to the top review so loads of people will see :) www.tyrereviews.com/submit.htm?match=Michelin-Pilot-Sport-Cup-2---Tyre-Reviews-and-Tests
I always loved cars and thought I knew how important tyres are, but watching your videos, I learned so much, and see tyres with a much bigger importance.
Michelin all the way for the car imo. Best all rounder, I use just the ps4 as I've kept 18s for driveability and weight and Love the info and very helpful they let you do this aswell
Once again a fascinating and fine review. Very curious if you would ever consider testing the OEM versus the aftermarket Tesla Pilot Sport 4S. We suspect that not only is the tread measurably wider but the tire compounding has been jiggered with both on the outside tread and the crown. Would be fascinated to hear the results of that one!
In Australia, my model 3 oem tyre was the PS4. I changed out at 45000km (totally worn out all inside treads) to the newer non oem PS5. It seems noisier and less range now, so maybe the oem range has better rolling resistance? Not sure
Had Hankook Ventus V3 285/35/20 in my Camaro SS 1LE for track days, changed them for the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 285/35/20 front and 305/35/20 rear and they are amazing for track and daily use.
Really interesting video! However I think a comparison between the OE 4S and the 5S (when released) would make more sense as if I had a brand new M3 and I needed to replace the tyres in a year or 2 that's the more likely decision I'd need to make. Whilst it's clear OE tyres are better than their counterpart, the manufacturers tyre choice is a big factor too. For example, on our E60 M5 we replaced the OE Dunlop's with Pilot Sports and the transformation was incredible! Tbh I'd pick Pilot Sports over any OE tyre, unless they also happed to be PS's like on this M3!
Wow! That’s a real eye opener. So, do I have to go to a BMW main agent to get the OE? How do I know they have been fitted? Is the * marked on the casing?
You don’t have to pay the main dealer premium to get these, just ensure wherever you are buying from stocks the BMW * marked tyre. Most websites have the option to choose the brand of car you drive.
@@leviathan1195 So I bought tires with the same name minus an asterisk which means I was ripped off. Why the fuck wouldn't they just give the tire a completely different name if it's built differently? Michelin should be sued for false advertising. I'm fucking pissed off. What a bunch of bullshit that could have easily been avoided if they just called it something different. I bet I'm not the only person who got fucked by this. I smell a lawsuit coming and Michelin deserves to lose money for this bullshit.
Just took my 718 Spyder in today for a new set of PS4S to replace the factory Dunlop Race Max 2s. I was caught in a torrential downpour (blinding rain) on the way to the tire shop and was white knuckled in the Dunlops. Caught again in several more heavy downpours on the way home with the PS4Ss and the car handled significantly better. Long story short, you made a great choice - especially if you aren't frequently tracking it.
@@sysakPL yeah, they might have something in the deal they made designing these that prevents them from just making these 1:1 but if they can get close with everything they learned like you said I’m 100% on board!
PS5/S definitely not this year, that's all I know. And there will certainly be elements of this tyre in the new PS5S but that tyre will be a totally different tyre too.
Huge kudos to your channel! This one turned me to a fan, going deep enough to get something out of the technical and follow up with practicality. Got a flat on my M5 CP (F90) and after botched self patch (the patch cut when trying to insert so I can't trust it) I need a replacement. My local tire shop does not have the * version, and BMW do not charge that much more, but realize now that swapping just one tire might be a bad idea, so I might get away with 1 new tire instead of 2 (or even 4 ...). Keep up the excellent work (profiling the topic and not yourself is such a relief instead of looking at people flexing (literally and figuratively). Have Cup2 (N1) on my 911 TS, and they are awesome (but only when it's 55F+, at 45F I have no traction), 4S (non-*) on my M3, and now my M3 feel less planted in a turn than my M5 (with *).
Would really be curious what the difference between the normal 4S vs the various N rated tires would be. I've got the normal 4S tires on my 996 and love them but it makes me wonder what a N rated version would do for the car.
🤣😂 Me too. hn version are pants in the wet but great in the dry so actually a similar formula. Really down to what one wants I guess. Also changed to ps4s's. Jonathan. Love the sexy, gorgeous, beautiful description for the * marked lol...
Loved this. I always wondered about OE spec tires and I'm also glad to know I'm not the only one to notice the fiddly little differences in tire behavior. Cheers!
@@tyrereviews checked it out. Nice video too 👍🏼 however one thing remains unclear to me in all so called tire tests: how car-dependent are the results? For example, might a particular set of tires possibly perform better than another when mounted to a certain vehicle, but when mounted to a different vehicle the outcome might be the opposite? Yes, I’ve written „so called tire tests“, because usually the „test“ does not technically qualify as a tire test. It would be a system test of vehicle and tire, if the testing environment would be normalised. Which it isn’t because of the uncontrollable environment... yet I believe the results still yield a lot of truth. Only there are too many uncontrolled parameters and variables to ever know.
@@Gemini_0815 When everything is very very close, which it can be, a different vehicle could slightly change the order, but generally a good tyre is a good tyre
@@tyrereviews thank you, you’re really resourceful and thorough! Looking forward to the next review. I need to buy a car with worn tires, so I can buy a new set again 😅
That's all well and good for M-cars and Porsches, but plenty of "every-day" cars come with OE tires that are substantially worse than aftermarket and very quickly become outdated.
Fantastic video as always! I think it would be interesting for future videos to test how much age and wear affect tyre performance. I haven't found much data about it Ps: I got the Goodyear egp2 on your recommendation and I'm loving them
This comparison is brilliant. I'd love to try this spec of the 4S out. An absolutely on point spec of an already brilliant tyre from your thorough comparison. It's also really telling seeing such enthusiasm from you, "this is sexy" (lol). Say's a lot for what BMW and Michelin have achieved. Now, Michelin, let the rest of us experience Jonathans joy!
![The NEW Michelin Pilot Sport S 5 [MO1] vs Cup 2 R!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/S800muYblKI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Michelin Pilot Sport 4S VS Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 - Compared on Track [*]](/img/1.gif)
Hey all. To answer some of the common questions:
1) These OE tyres are only currently available in the G80 sizes, so 275/35 R19 front and 285/30 R20 rear.
2) If you have a really old OE tyre, it's likely a new non-OE tyre is better, see this video for reference ruclips.net/video/-JLvNj3z3oY/видео.html
3) These can be bought in the usual channels just like any other OE tyre, there's usually a few % more expensive. There's also a shortage of these tyres currently.
I think that's it. Don't forget to review your own tyres over at www.tyrereviews.com too 😁
Forgot to ask sir, the star in the name to spot the original, only in Michelin? How do you spot an original or aftermarket for example in Hankook, Pirelli or Continental. ( I have bought theese tyres and equiped my cars by your recomandation and i was satisfied by every one )
@@footballtiktoks7886 * is bmw specific certification, when it comes to ordinary, non m bmw models, you can see plenty of choice of * certified tires from various tire manufacturers. Every car manufacturer have their own label for tires, for example mercedes puts mo on certified tires.
@@footballtiktoks7886 the above comment is correct :) There's a list of some of the common OE markings in the video description too
Thanks for clarification, much appreciated.
I know they're not meant for it, but I'd be interested to see how these compare to the aftermarket 4S on a front wheel drive platform (such as the Golf/GTI)
Geek out lvl: Tyre Reviews
We still need that track rematch #neverforget
@@tyrereviews don't embarass yourself again, man...
I've got a car you should do a comparison with ;-)
@@yumyumracing Nobels are sweeeeeeeeet
@@tyrereviews this one has a few things up its sleeve over a standard one too. Thanks for saying though, appreciate that.
Absolutely brilliant level of information, thank you for the continued incredible detail and knowledge sharing. I found that fascinating, and I'm sure I'm not the only one!
Sup Shmee :)
Thank you for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
I agree, BUT.............
What if you actually prefer how the non OE tyre performs on your car overall. Which tyre is 'better' then?
@@gottliebdee263 like * marked runflat tyres that makes the car crap? BMW just suck
Its amazing how us plebs take tires for granted! " whats the cheapest as long as their not remolds"
The most underrated channel on RUclips. Yes I’ll say it again!
Yep, agree. I used to pour all over the Evo mag's tyre tests, but Jonathon's reviews leave Evo for dead.
Yup. This content is on a different level. Given the importance of tyres to performance, it deserves way more attention.
agreed, such valuable information. All my tyre choices have been because of these vids. Cannot apricate it enough.
Lots of eyes have now been opened. I never knew that OE tyres were any different to their retail equivalent! And I had lots of cars over the last 20 years. I wonder how many people actually know the work behind the scenes for years in order to achieve what the carmaker reckons is the best match for the car. Keeping it to only a handful of people makes it a very undersold/underrated competitive advantage for both carmaker and tyre manufacturer. At the same time, isn't it false advertising? How many people will even know that there's a STAR to look for on the tyre apart from everything else? 🤔
@@stevenswann3254 I like this guy. He is so pragmatic and analytic - and really appears to have a good butt for the drive feel. I have had a little try on tyre testing and I can tell the subjective tests are really demanding. You really need to be a talented driver to feel the difference between two good tyres. You can easily feel a difference of a lousy and a good tyre but to be exact and repeatable between almost equal tyres is really demanding. And you need to be able to change the driving style - you need to be good at straight braking as well as in trailing. You need to be able to shift between early and late apexes and find repeatedly minute differencies. This guy seems to have all this.
One of the best, perhaps the best independent tyre test CREW is the Testworld from Finland. It was originally some car journos of a tech mag who set the company. Since then they have created huge test facilities in Ivalo in Lapland. Of course their hyperexpertize is in the winter tyre segment but they also do a lot of testing for tyre and car companies around the world. And there has also been some freelance spin offs from Testworld e.g. Micke Bergman Engineering Ltd. Micke works for many companies.
And if you ever go to the Ring you will find an army of testers there for almost all the car and tyre makes. Some of them are for one brand some are like hired guns, mercenaries of the trade.
just brillant !
For all the BMW XDrive Owner: The reduction of variance of the side wall for OE Tire is very important to avoid costly damages on your xdrive system. With cheap tire with high variance the XDrive System thinks there is a permanent slip and is managing the whole time the power between the axle (that's what meant in the video with the sensitivity). Such AWD System are actually not designed for permanent slip.
Mate you're the hero we didn't know we needed. Please never stop reviewing tyres!
Why thank you :)
I would totally buy the Tyre Reviews Edition PS4S.
Sign me tf up!
When i have bought my first set of Michelin for my city fun shopping basket, i was shocked completely. The car just simply turned into something very different, i can spin it around on edges, i can put it everywhere even with a mm away from the previous line, i can feel every move the car makes, i know immediately when it starts slide across/broadside and i can limit it by the speed, and i have full trust in my tyres. After this video i am completely convinced that they KNOW everything ABOUT TIRES AND they can make everyhing out of rubber whatever they want. i am not a fan of Michelin, neither of any other tiremaker, but where the innovation comes from there is self-confident knowledge and you might be sure that you get more than you expected.
It would be really interesting to do the same test with porsche specific and non Porsche marked tires.
There is always a bunch of discussion on this topic in porsche circles. :)
Yes, me too. And not only that but Porsche specific tyres for old Porsches. The tyres didn't even exist back when Porsche released the cars....
and later the test with Porsche tires on BMW :)
Especially when Michelin can’t deliver to the market N (Porsche) tires for 911 (225/40/18) since many months!
I would like to know too
Porsche uses tires that are a little more than half tread so they wear out faster. Factory motorcycle tires do the same thing. Perelli is famous for that.
The energy in his review is perfect to start a day. Keep up the good energetic reviews.
Thank you :)
I love seeing the sparkle in your eyes when you're enjoying the handling.
Who knew how much I would enjoy a 16minute video on tyres?! Good job 👏🏼👏🏼👊🏼
Thank you!
This is one of your most informative videos. Always wondered this. Thank you.
FWIW, everyone that knows me (that isn't a racing friend) thinks that I am the tire expert and always consult me for tire recommendations. Little do they know, I'm only tire smart because of this channel...
Haha, sorry for all the tyre questions you get from your friends!
This single video turned my decade+ long car-enthusiast level knowledge of tires upside-down. I have to throw away most of I thought I knew (and others around me thought they knew) and rethink my choices of tires. It also makes me sad that such information (what kind of compounds, exactly, are used, where they are used etc) is extremely hard to find when buying tires and instead we get marketing...
Amazing video.
Thanks :)
I would love to see a video going for a comparison of the same brand comparing the different classes of tires and how they perform to help decide how much of a trade off on performance we are sacrificing for the sake of comfort and treadware (i.e. PS4S vs PS AS4 vs CrossClimate vs Primacy vs etc.).
I agree!
I had the Michelin Primacy HP as the standard tyre on my Toyota 86 and they are borderline dangerous in everything but dry roads. Swapped out for some Pilot Sport 4 and they’ve taken away some of the fun of the car
good idea
Just too broad a survey across differently engineered tires. Only the 4S* is engineered particularly for G80/82.
I'd love to do that too :)
This would be a dream come true.
"This is sexy" - when cars guys say something only other car guys understand
You mean like exhaust bearings or blinker fluid??
What r u gay?
"This is sexy" -> cuts to a shot of the front of the car
You shure your eyesight is good enough to be driving on a race track? 😂
I’d rather have excellent grip in the wet, most tyres are very capable in the dry. Track driving is a different ball game 😎
Using the car especially when it rains ( with good weather I use the motorbike) , I'm very interested in the wet behaviour too, and I agree with you!
Don't think I would trade a better wet behaviour for a better dry performance...
@@mark340d8 you’ve got it cracked, dry for motorbike, wet for car, perfect! 👍
I understand that preference which is why it's great we have data and options :)
I got bike and car . in wet I just drive slow .have fun in dry. id rather grip in dry . who drives fast in wet unless your racing.
@@petermoygannon698 the point is that most tyres are capable in the dry, some are stickier with shorter mileage available, but the main difference is wet weather performance, even if you’re driving slowly on your bike or car in the wet you will need on occasions to suddenly corner and brake and you’ll need grip. You wouldn’t want to do that with slicks on. You can drive perfectly well on road tyres in the dry that are below the legal limit and have dry grip. Wet weather performance on road tyres is more important than dry performance otherwise road tyres would all be slicks and pretty much just be differentiated by varying compounds.
Truly the best tire evaluation. The granularity and depth is impressive.
Thank you :)
I don't understand how you bring so much good content on tyres alone! Love what you do - keep it up. This was an eye opener for me!
I appreciate that!
Wow, that’s a lot more differences than I thought. Different compounds, different constructions, and even different tread patterns - they are basically different tyres.
but maybe it is worse in wet and often we have wet!
I'd actually love to see both your entire interview with the development engineer from Michelin and raw footage from the driver's point of view of each of your fastest laps. Would it be possible to supply this sort of content in the future?
Absoluely loving your videos! Great work, keep it up!
Was asking the same
Yes, maybe the Michelin engineer could explain why they had to recall 6 million tires.
I am a former owner of a performance tire shop with 15+ years experience and certified technical specialist for Bridgestone, Continental, Michelin, Goodyear and more. I disagree with the overall statement of the video. Yes, on an M Car for someone who wants to drive on a track, the OE tire will offer benefits, but it assumes you like the designed handling of the car on the tire and will drive it frequently in those conditions..which almost no one does. I have also seen non N-Spec tires cause vibrations at extreme speeds when installed on some 911s (220 kph+). That being said the vast majority of OE tires on on most vehicle supply a compromise on many levels delivering a tire that is not significantly good or bad anywhere. It must also work for every road type and surface type in all areas of a continent. Most significantly, OE tires are most often chosen for rolling resistance to lower a manufacturer's CAFE requirement. In 98% percent of cases, customers can enhance the things they like about a car by changing from an OE spec to something better suited to their driving preference, area where they live and type of driving. My 2 cents
And people still thinks it's just a "black rubber thing" and buy the cheapest tyre they can :-(. Thanks for another excelet video.
Especially old asian people 🤣🤣 me mum in law has her car tyre going bald and the next tyre she chose was a 2nd hand tyre, saying "it's just tyres if it can run on my car it's okay"
For most people, that is exactly what it is. Most people do not need tires like this. Nor do they want to waste so much money on something that they will not get use out of.
@@thomascarpenter5536 Indeed, but there is a big differences in emergency between tyre from some unknown brand from China to something like Falken ZE310, which it's a budget tyre as well. The price difference is very small but the performance, for the general public, can be huge in emergency.
@@thomascarpenter5536 you have a lot riding on your tires.
The sheer enjoyment was using the OE tyres told us everything we needed to know. Another excellent video.👍
Thanks 👍
OE tyres make the tyre market really confusing. If its a completely different tyre why brand it a PS4S.
so the know what tyre to buy again
the name sells the tire
the tire sells the car
in the mc industry for example, we get partly grippier oe tires with less tread depth than the aftermarket version
I agree. Call it the PSM3 or something.
Wait what, so the same tyre name is actually totally different. First ive heard about this. Thats really not right. One tyre is basically fake. They should be idenentical if they're both called pilot sport 4s. I used to like pilot sport 4s's, but its put me off buying again purely for the reason that I hate companies that bulls#@t and lie to their customers.
Some do have specific model codes for specific makes and models.
Agreed, that much more work put into it. IT IS a different tire and everyone wins by having a different name. When listed side by side on a catalog it's not obvious why someone should buy the more expensive version.
What a great video!!! I never thought about comparing OEM tires to their base tires, and then testing them on an actual track. It's wonderful to get such a detailed analysis of the difference. Thank You so much!!!
What a cool tire! I love seeing the breakdown between the different compounds and hearing about the technology
Agreed...we're rarely get to hear this kind of detail on performance tires. It's usually just named then the journalist moves on to other numbers and details. Great geeky stuff imo.
I know video is a year old, but I just stumbled upon it and it's awesome! Thank you for breaking this down, no one ever explained the differences! OE is impressive for sure!
I am generally supprised, that they are selling two different tyres with same name.
Yeah, that's confusing...
It's actually more than just two tires, since many different makes and models have bespoke tires
After all this design and effort, the Michelin factory might accidentally ship the wrong tires to BMW because they look identical.
The same exists with the Pilot Sport Cup 2. Shelby GT350 has one compound and tread design, while the GT350R has has a different compound and tread design. Then Porche has an N-spec version and there is yet another general consumption design.
Yep, I did just this when I bought a Mitsubishi p/u back in 1987. I went back 3 times and bought wheels and tires for that truck from the dealer. $150.00 per set back then. Those 3+ originals lasted until it had over 150 thousand miles on it,Then it had 151+thousand miles on it, I traded for a Jeep Cherokee as my wife began working for the county health dept on the road,4x4 etc.
if only they made that 4S in a 17" size... sounds like my perfect tyre! Something between a standard 4S and a cup2
Agreed. The new UHP Bridgestone potenza sport is available in a huge range of sizes including 17", although from Tyre reviews TOYT, i got the impression it leans slightly closer to cup 2 than PS4.
They do a set of 17” 4S for the Honda e.
@@thomasfrederiksendk Are they aftermarket? All material I have found suggest the Honda E with 17" wheels comes on the regular PS4. Apart from Evo (which is trusted, but I actually think is wrong in this instance).
@@TroyHR123 My papers say PS4S, but let me double check when my summer wheels go back on in two days. You may very well be right given the quality of the dealership documentation…
@@TroyHR123 You were right. The papers are wrong. It’s PS4. Par for the course for the local dealer, unfortunately.
From a non-BMW owner here, I can confirm - would buy!!
Thanks for this great video. Beside that it is good (but credible) advertisement for BMW (Freude am Fahren) and Michelin, you proove to be one of the best tyre testers on youtube.
Back in the late 80’s, I bought a set of 16” wheels with GoodYear Gator Backs and installed them on my turbo Buick.
Huge improvement by any measure!
That tire was the beginning of great tire tech!
Loved the review! Great to finally get this question answered, the extra cost does represent extra value!
Damn I never thought the difference would be that great! Definitely one of my favorite channels !!
Hey Michelin, Hell yeah I’ll buy it
Love this channel. I love that he’s passionate about tires that translate to lots of good, useful information from a happy guy
Thank you :D
This is very in-depth analysis of two “identical” tires, well not so much. The fact the the same tire when developed for an OEM has a ton more engineering involved to ensure the tire helps maximize the chassis, super video- thanks
This is an awesome video. I love how much you love it!! I always go for the * on my BM and the AO on my Audi. Glad to know there is a difference. Would be interesting to see the same with some of the other manufacturers. Quality work from Michelin on the invitation to you. The obviously were confident.
This is by far one of the most informative tire videos I've watch...going to be replaying this in my head all day hoping to grasp half of it lol
Thank you :)
This video convimced me, im going to look for oem 33 years old tires for my e30
hahaha
There is no doubt about it - Jonathan is the leading tyre geek........in the world!
Thank you!
This was a question many of us have been wondering.
I wish you had done this test with a 911.
Hopefully I can in the future :)
I wondered as if this was the same with N-rated tires. Hopefully they get the chance. As always, the internet isn't satisfied with the great info Tyrtereviews already provided ;-)
I am an avid tyre learner but I am so humbled as I had NO idea that there was a difference between a tyre offered as OE or if you bought it aftermarket. Thanks for this knowledge
I can only join a plea: "Michelin, please, make this * tyre available for aftermarket too!"
I wonder how long the Michelin engineer laughed when vauxhall said, 'we'd like you to work alongside us to perfect the Mokka's driving and handling characteristics!'
Great video!!!!!!
hahaha!
Top quality content, as always!
This is why petrol heads should subscribe to this channel. Magnificent Jonathan, so much information you have to watch at least 4 times.
:D Thank you!
If anyone from Michelin is reading the comments, please give us the P4S in a 17inch tyre size!
There are PS4's for 17 inch tires. I have 225/45 ZR17 at the front and 245/40 ZR17at the rear
@@A_Jay13 is that the ps4 or ps4s?
Damn. PS4‘s not the S. My bad
Man I thought it was just us 15" guys that were ignored by Michelin like that.
Not sure what car you've got, but I've just fitted the Cup 2 on my 17's and they're fantastic
Thanks for the videos you make. You're one of the best reviewers. I have been researching which tyres to fit and navigating all the crap videos on youtube from people who think they know what they're talking about. Then I found your channel and finally, someone competent!
Love, love loved that review! I learnt so much. Please Michelin, find a way to marry that OEM tyre's steering feel and response with the PS4/4S grip - wet and dry. That would be my perfect tyre.
I'm very excited for the 5S
Your enthusiasm is infectious. Geek out; no one minds :)
Great video! A few years ago I put non-N0 rated PS4S's on my 911 C2S and the sidewall felt soft and disconnected like I was driving a minivan (kind of what you describe around 5:50 in your video). They now offer a N0 rated PS4S in my sizes, so I will be giving those a shot based off this video - thanks!
How amazing and interesting this all is is very obvious just by your manner of speech. I love the data and everything, but watching someone genuinely having fun is always a great experience. Amazing video.
Thank you
Yes Michelin, please make this tire for my 370Z.
Thanks Jon for highlighting the same deficiencies of the PS4S in this kind of car with spirited driving in the dry as I've noticed in my Z. By the time the tread wears down on my PS4S tires perhaps Michelin will have the PS5S out. I would rather not have to go to the Cup 2s, but I will if there isn't anything better in the PS 4 or 5 series. Otherwise I might start looking closely at what Bridgestone and Yokohama have to offer.
Jim, as chance would have it. You are on the same path as myself. Have you found a better tire for the Z.
Amazing intel that confirms what I've been feeling for years. Always go OE in my supercars: they feel faster, more responsive and more engaging with the road.
I can't believe the * on a tyre made so much difference. Its incredible when its still a ps4s tyre. Hopefully the ps5s gets the same treatment
Thank you very much for this explanation !
That’s why you can buy two different tires with two different ECO label classes but it’s the same tire 💡
Thank you so much for this interesting test. It a pleasure to see how happy you are with the 4S*..
Actually I have made the same experience with PSS vs. PSS* on the M3 E92.
I've not done that comparison on my e92, big difference then?
@@tyrereviews Yes I think so, the grip feels better. As far as it's possible to test on public roads.
Love how passionate you are about tires
Very interesting difference between the OEM and non-OEM versions, far more than I would have expected. While these specific tires are not useful to me (as I don't own a BMW M3), I'm always interested to see how these high performance tires perform which will be helpful when it comes time to replace the Continental Super Sports on my Civic Type R. One thing I'd love to see covered are some older car tire sizes. I need to replace the tires on my 97 Honda Accord which uses a now uncommon 185/65 R15 size and while I've always used Michelin tires on it (currently Primacy AS) I'm not needing to consider other brands for that size (when I look I only see Defender and X-Ice fitments from Michelin) or switching to a wider tire size that still fits on my 6" wide wheels and doesn't interfere with the suspension.
Those older sizes are tricky, adac sometimes do a 15" test
I recommend you Dunlop BluResponse for 185/65/R15 size.
The only thing is you will never know as a regular consumer if you are actually getting OE tires if you ask the dealer for them! I’m positive they are more expensive so I’m sure most dealers would say yeah we gave you the OE and really give you a set of standard Pilot sport 4s when you replace the tires, and keep the extra money 🤔.
Excellent video and very interesting! Awesome of Michelin to invite you out to test and explain the technology.
Definitely mimic your findings with our own G80 M3, and great to uncover something we’ve long thought that the tyre is also being tuned to the cars desired performance.
We noticed similar with the A90 Supra, the Super Sports on that are leagues ahead of the regular aftermarket one we used to love until the PS4S came along.
I'm actually testing with an A90 later this year, excited to see what I can do!
Love this channel! Always looked for a UK unbiased reviewer. Found one now! All the best with the channel and business.
Thank you!
Love Pilot Sport 4S, my XE S is so much more predictable in the dry and especially in the wet now. No random breakaways vs the oem tyres, nice and predictable...
I switched from the OE summer tires on my ST to Conti all-seasons. On long journeys here in the US, weather conditions can change drastically in the course of a day due to mileage or altitude. A specialty tire like the GY F1 asymmetric is fine in a narrow environment but doesn’t have the performance range needed on the highway.
Continental has given me that connection I've been looking for, especially in the wet
And I can't even get a 4S for my car (M240i) here :( I don't get the size/type/region restriction reasoning... Excellent review, one can see the sparks in the eyes = this is a real deal :)
But you can get the F1 SuperSport which is a great tyre too
@@tyrereviews May try this one as well or go the "Civil" route with regular 4 (non S) just to try the more regular feel. MPSS are great, no doubt, but as soon as the temperature drops and roads get wet, they ask for trouble 😕 Will be a tough choice...
@@ondro727 I replaces my tyres with some ps4 as my country has shit roads and I need all the handling I can get. You will not be dissatisfied.
High Grip: OE Tires
Budget: Aftermarket Tires
Drift: OE Fronts, Aftermarket Rears
Drift+: Non Comp M3/M4, OE Fronts, Aftermarket Rears
Fantastic tyre "nerdery", love it! ❤️🙏
Good to see tyre spelt correctly 👍
I switch between both spellings for search :)
@@tyrereviews 👍
@@tyrereviews How to know OE tyre for VW?
Just replaced all 4 tyres on my X6M50d with the ones the car was sold: Dunlops Sport GT Maxx RFT *. The answer from BMW was : factory tyres Yokohama but at selling point OEM tyres are fitted. Always stick with OEM tyres as aftermarkets may invalidate your insurance/MOT- please check with your insurers.
Love this stuff. It would be really interesting to see the comparison between the standard, and other manufacturer specific PS4S (as K1, K2, MO,*). Recently fitted the K1 version, and they are pretty different, too...
I'd love to do this but the data is hard to come by :)
I have some experience with the Cup 2 in Oe, M0, K1, K2 and N1 specs. The oe is the baseline cup 2 and the one every other one will be referencing. The test car I used was an Camaro SS 1LE. And these are just based off my feeling from driving on the road, autocross and track. Starting off the M0 for AMG, the sidewall is stiffer than oe, there is a smaller than oe spacing between the groves for improved wet performance, the compound is not as soft and tacky as the oe which for heavy cars like amg and the Camaro work great, the sidewall is slightly stiffer than an oe cup 2 as well due to needing to support fat heavy cars. The K1 and K2 are both Ferrari spec. The K1 is for the 458S and the k2 for the 488Pista and the different character from those cars show up in the tires. The K2 is far far more agreesive than the K1. The K1 is similar to the M0 in tread pattern with a sticker compound than M0 and softer side wall. But the K2 is like a cheater tire. It has probably half the tread grooves as the M0 and K1 with an absolutely massive outer shoulder. It has the softest compound that I tested and it actually produces noticably more dry grip than the others. Lastly the Porsche N1, has a super advanced and soft compound like the cheater K2 Ferrari tire but more designed for longevity. The tread pattern is more standard having more grooves than the K2 but still having a widended outer shoulder. It has a semi soft firm side wall compared to the oe and k1, allowing a little bit of flex bit still supporting the load well. I know it's not 4s but it's all I've tried. Keep in mind these are not facts from Michelin rather my feeling from the drivers seat. Hope this helps I've never seen this info anywhere else.
@@memememine1 dude this is amazing data! It will probably get lost in the comments which is sad, could you put it up on the site? I can bump it to the top review so loads of people will see :) www.tyrereviews.com/submit.htm?match=Michelin-Pilot-Sport-Cup-2---Tyre-Reviews-and-Tests
@@tyrereviews Sure thing sorry for the late reply.
I always loved cars and thought I knew how important tyres are, but watching your videos, I learned so much, and see tyres with a much bigger importance.
Finally prove against people that say, no man that * mark doesn't matter 😂 YES thx!
Michelin all the way for the car imo. Best all rounder, I use just the ps4 as I've kept 18s for driveability and weight and Love the info and very helpful they let you do this aswell
I never knew this. Interesting and thanks for your research.
I agree with op. Thank you from me too
This channel is one of the best on RUclips. Solid info, entertaining, great video and audio!
Once again a fascinating and fine review. Very curious if you would ever consider testing the OEM versus the aftermarket Tesla Pilot Sport 4S. We suspect that not only is the tread measurably wider but the tire compounding has been jiggered with both on the outside tread and the crown. Would be fascinated to hear the results of that one!
In Australia, my model 3 oem tyre was the PS4. I changed out at 45000km (totally worn out all inside treads) to the newer non oem PS5. It seems noisier and less range now, so maybe the oem range has better rolling resistance? Not sure
@@kdkd693 wait, you get 45k miles out of a set of tires? I'm doing something wrong
@@The4valanche 45k KM or ~28k Miles
Had Hankook Ventus V3 285/35/20 in my Camaro SS 1LE for track days, changed them for the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 285/35/20 front and 305/35/20 rear and they are amazing for track and daily use.
Really interesting video! However I think a comparison between the OE 4S and the 5S (when released) would make more sense as if I had a brand new M3 and I needed to replace the tyres in a year or 2 that's the more likely decision I'd need to make.
Whilst it's clear OE tyres are better than their counterpart, the manufacturers tyre choice is a big factor too. For example, on our E60 M5 we replaced the OE Dunlop's with Pilot Sports and the transformation was incredible! Tbh I'd pick Pilot Sports over any OE tyre, unless they also happed to be PS's like on this M3!
I can't wait to test the 5S
@@tyrereviews looking forward to it!
Really appreciate the forensic level of detail, absolutely what I’m looking for! Thanks.
Wow! That’s a real eye opener. So, do I have to go to a BMW main agent to get the OE? How do I know they have been fitted? Is the * marked on the casing?
U can buy the original tires everywhere, they are marked (star for bmw MOE for Mercedes, AO Audi Original,...)
Its also marked on the tire.
You don’t have to pay the main dealer premium to get these, just ensure wherever you are buying from stocks the BMW * marked tyre. Most websites have the option to choose the brand of car you drive.
@@leviathan1195 So I bought tires with the same name minus an asterisk which means I was ripped off. Why the fuck wouldn't they just give the tire a completely different name if it's built differently? Michelin should be sued for false advertising. I'm fucking pissed off. What a bunch of bullshit that could have easily been avoided if they just called it something different. I bet I'm not the only person who got fucked by this. I smell a lawsuit coming and Michelin deserves to lose money for this bullshit.
I specked the PS4S “summer tyres” on my 718 Spyder, so looks like that was a wise choice. Great video, superb level of detail. 👏🏻
Just took my 718 Spyder in today for a new set of PS4S to replace the factory Dunlop Race Max 2s. I was caught in a torrential downpour (blinding rain) on the way to the tire shop and was white knuckled in the Dunlops. Caught again in several more heavy downpours on the way home with the PS4Ss and the car handled significantly better. Long story short, you made a great choice - especially if you aren't frequently tracking it.
Love the nerd info! When are they hoping to release the PS5 and PS5S?
I wonder if this tire is the future ps5s. Hard to imagine Michelin would spend all this time and money for 1 vehicle
@@pigeonpoo1823 was thinking just that too. Maybe not 1 to 1 but i bet they will use the learnings from project like that.
@@sysakPL yeah, they might have something in the deal they made designing these that prevents them from just making these 1:1 but if they can get close with everything they learned like you said I’m 100% on board!
PS5/S definitely not this year, that's all I know. And there will certainly be elements of this tyre in the new PS5S but that tyre will be a totally different tyre too.
Please god call it PS5 and PSS5 this time around. Its painful clarifying comments when someone on the internet says I have "PS4s"
These OE PS4S actually brought some steering feel/feedback onto my old G80 M3C. And I’ve owned several Porsches.
Been waiting for this one for quite some time, excellent work!!! So does it make sense to put OE tyres on older models like F80 if the size can match?
I have them on my e92 M3. They work great
@@anthonypenaflor Is it OE PSS or OE PS4S?
I have a video on this on an M2, see pinned comment
@@MarkExige410 OE PS4S in 275/35/19 made in late 2020. 255/35/19 non-OE in the front
Huge kudos to your channel! This one turned me to a fan, going deep enough to get something out of the technical and follow up with practicality.
Got a flat on my M5 CP (F90) and after botched self patch (the patch cut when trying to insert so I can't trust it) I need a replacement. My local tire shop does not have the * version, and BMW do not charge that much more, but realize now that swapping just one tire might be a bad idea, so I might get away with 1 new tire instead of 2 (or even 4 ...). Keep up the excellent work (profiling the topic and not yourself is such a relief instead of looking at people flexing (literally and figuratively).
Have Cup2 (N1) on my 911 TS, and they are awesome (but only when it's 55F+, at 45F I have no traction), 4S (non-*) on my M3, and now my M3 feel less planted in a turn than my M5 (with *).
I really love the F90!
Would really be curious what the difference between the normal 4S vs the various N rated tires would be. I've got the normal 4S tires on my 996 and love them but it makes me wonder what a N rated version would do for the car.
Not sure how you ended up on my recommendations but I'm glad you did sir. The algorithm gods have indeed been kind. Subbed
The next question, what do we get with N marked tyres? ;)
Even more changes!
This is extremely helpful, thank you for doing it. It's difficult to find empirical data on tires at this level, keep doing what you're doing!
Sadly the OE branded Pirellis for my N still aren't as good as the generic 4S..
feel your pain. P zeros are kinda sad on my i30 😏
🤣😂 Me too. hn version are pants in the wet but great in the dry so actually a similar formula.
Really down to what one wants I guess.
Also changed to ps4s's.
Jonathan. Love the sexy, gorgeous, beautiful description for the * marked lol...
I agree! The P zeros for my jag are HORRIBLE. 4S all day for me
Yeah, helps a lot here that they start with a top quality base package in the form of a regular 4 S (and Cup 2 compound)
@@James-RJM We need them to be just the reverse. Great in the wet, acceptable in the dry. See my longer reply above.
Loved this. I always wondered about OE spec tires and I'm also glad to know I'm not the only one to notice the fiddly little differences in tire behavior. Cheers!
Love the content. What is the price point difference between the sets ?
I need to check, usually just a few % increase for the OE tyre
This is so much enjoyment, can’t believe it. Please do All Terrain tires on all kinds of surfaces!
Already done, check out the raptor video
@@tyrereviews checked it out. Nice video too 👍🏼 however one thing remains unclear to me in all so called tire tests: how car-dependent are the results? For example, might a particular set of tires possibly perform better than another when mounted to a certain vehicle, but when mounted to a different vehicle the outcome might be the opposite? Yes, I’ve written „so called tire tests“, because usually the „test“ does not technically qualify as a tire test. It would be a system test of vehicle and tire, if the testing environment would be normalised. Which it isn’t because of the uncontrollable environment... yet I believe the results still yield a lot of truth. Only there are too many uncontrolled parameters and variables to ever know.
@@Gemini_0815 When everything is very very close, which it can be, a different vehicle could slightly change the order, but generally a good tyre is a good tyre
@@tyrereviews thank you, you’re really resourceful and thorough! Looking forward to the next review. I need to buy a car with worn tires, so I can buy a new set again 😅
Great video! As usual 😊
That's all well and good for M-cars and Porsches, but plenty of "every-day" cars come with OE tires that are substantially worse than aftermarket and very quickly become outdated.
Tyre legend!
Now I know where you learned to side ways the cars you are showing , from your BMW’s 👌👍
:D
Fantastic video as always!
I think it would be interesting for future videos to test how much age and wear affect tyre performance. I haven't found much data about it
Ps: I got the Goodyear egp2 on your recommendation and I'm loving them
Thanks :) If you ever get the time a review on www.tyrereviews.com would be really great!
This comparison is brilliant. I'd love to try this spec of the 4S out. An absolutely on point spec of an already brilliant tyre from your thorough comparison.
It's also really telling seeing such enthusiasm from you, "this is sexy" (lol). Say's a lot for what BMW and Michelin have achieved.
Now, Michelin, let the rest of us experience Jonathans joy!
Thank you :) It was a fun test for sure