That wheelchair space, that's why I hate the Voyagers. On other trains I'm allowed to have friends! 80x trains the wheelchair space is in a table set so I can sit with friends and family instead of crammed in a corner by myself.
Pity about the 180’s. I used one from Moreton in Marsh to Reading way back in 2014. It was the most comfortable train we rode on during our 3 month UK holiday. We did 141 trains in that time, and the Voyagers were the worst, especially when travelling through the Midlands when they were often overloaded.
I used to place Voyager's at the top of my shit list, but then realised most of the issue is the atrocious XCountry service with their horrific capacity problems...the Shitatchi are so utterly abysmal with the seat base problem and shaking that they have taken the crown now.
gwr ones arent great but they're fine, do the job and a fairly pleasent experience. avanti and lumo's 80x trains are really goos, but that's because the TOC was willing to spend more money on them
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
Very good video Mate. I love Voyagers. Shame that they are really hated though. They are way better compared to the Adalentes in terms of reliabillity. And it's good that Grand Central have a few.
Never travelled with Grand Central before but I’ve been on several Cross Country services and never had any issues with the Voyager trains. They’ve always been very comfortable, a little noisy but less noisy than the Azuma’s and a damn site more pleasant interior too. Do these Voyagers tilt or have Arriva disconnected the mechanism? Great video. Enjoyed this very much.
@@andrewnelson4057 They were.. But I strongly agree with Camymanc- The ex Avanti/current Avanti sets are in a far superior condition compared with their Cross Country "cousins."
Not sure if it was just me, but every journey on the 180's was actually good. Not once was there a single breakdown in the 8 journeys i've taken on them.
Nice video. I love the Avanti/ex Avanti Super Voyagers. I think if the the current Cross Country ones were refurbished to be identical to the Avanti ones, retained the Shop, had the better First Class offer and had far more carriages, they wouldn't be as disliked. Yes I realise it's extremely unlikely any of that will happen.
You often mention loo paper on the floor when reviewing toilets. This is due to pax being careless and I don't see how the TOC can do anything about that except between trips.
Good video! I’ve had to endure one of the these units on a trip I did not so long ago, but I did it northbound. They seem a tad better than the voyagers that XC use, but I prefer the 180s. The one fundamental thing about them is, as you mention, they’re far too cramped. WHY? Why can’t this be noted before it’s too late? The seating needs to be more spacious. Get rid of hideous airline style seats and add more tables. For more capacity simply make them longer. Instead of five coaches make them eight or nine, or maybe even ten.
I’ve heard that Grand Central want new Bi-mode trains and to replace Class 221 Voyagers and Class 180 Adelantes. I think that they should keep the Class 180 and Class 221 that have been cascaded from Avanti West Coast.
I’d love to see these trains operating a direct service from York via Leeds Bradford and Manchester Victoria to Holyhead without having to change trains enroute, such as at Chester or Lladnuo, as there are not enough direct trains to Holyhead across the North of England at this capacity - eternally, TfW trains are always short of carriages and it’s a tight squeeze even on Avanti, as many passengers are on SailRail - there should be more dedicated SailRail services across the North of England, timed to meet Irish Ferries and Stena Check-Ins and ferry arrivals from Dublin, as the current SailRail Product offering needs a root and branch overhaul
I would say Wakefield Kirkgate is one of the most depressing stations I've been to. Plus, from what I understand, it's not a very safe station in the evening.
The main problem with Voyagers is Cross Country using 4 coach formations when 8 or 12 is needed. I much prefer a Voyager to a Hitachi IET, which are truly dreadful trains.
The street stencil at 01:15 if of 'Bradford Jesus Man' Geoffrey Brindley (he has a Wiki). It has been painted over, without explanation, many months ago, so this film has obviously been some time in the editing. The front entrance of the Interchange has reopened, but the shops and bus stops are still closed. On top of that the side ramp access has been shut. Combined with Bradford's chaotic multiple road rebuilds, that mean I, and many others, have to walk massive detours or walk in the road, if you can work out which way to go! I use Grand Central a lot. It's the only direct service from Bradford to most of the stations on route; and while LNER do serve London from Forster Square, the frequency and run-times are pathetic. That, and the low cost, means I have put up with the 180's appalling reliability. The Voyagers are better in every way, apart from the space in Standard, but seeing it's usually less than half full between BDI and DON that is less important.
Great video! The Voyagers are good trains if used on appropriate routes like London to Bradford/Sunderland. With EMR offloading their 222s Grand Central should lease 10 of them so they can do away with the 10 class 180s and the 2 Class 221s.
I'd have a Voyager over a Cl 180 every day of the week!!! The 180s were just not suitable - rattly noisy and uncomfortable. The Voyagers are better though admittedly they aren't the very best - the ride is a bit suspect. Do the refurbished Voyagers still smell of wee like the Cross Country ones used to?
I us the Doncaster to London route lots but only been on Grand Central once as I mainly travel with one of the others. I am not a fan of the Voyagers so that was I catch the others
Anyone who is old enough recall the days of British Rail will confirm there are no bad modern trains. Unless you are nostalgic for sitting on badly stained seats while last weeks plastic cups rolled around the floor. While the intercity 127 buffet service only opened for the last half hour of a 6 hour journey. However you did get exercise walk up and down the train looking for that one toilet that was working. Also you always got a seat as the trains were timetabled to run at a time no one wanted to travel
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
We invented the railways yet are decades behind other countries..... That 1st class looks awful and shoddy...... Take a look at Japanese and Chinese railways they are miles ahead seen from 1st hand experience
those unites ant new they gust bean repainted in to new livery and used buy different line and compony they are good units gust that they very noisy they have toilets which smell to hi heaven
I don't like QR codes as not a smartphone owner, they should put some staff on for those like myself. What's a flat crossing, think you meant level crossing, please use English, you've spent too long abroad and forgotten your native tongue or is it?
Level crossing is a road/rail crossing. A flat crossing is 2 rail lines crossing. You can see the Newark flat crossing on Google Earth to get a better idea. These are rare in the UK
@@bfapple Especially as it arose from his lack of knowledge of the technical term, which had been used correctly in the video. As they say, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
That wheelchair space, that's why I hate the Voyagers. On other trains I'm allowed to have friends! 80x trains the wheelchair space is in a table set so I can sit with friends and family instead of crammed in a corner by myself.
"I work a FULL-TIME" job
why didnt they paint the entire train they only did the driving carriages and call it a day
Like seriously they had 1 job that they CAN'T Do right.
@@STTMTheTrainGuy lol
I think because they're only being leased temporarily I want to say
I think it's because they're a temporary fix. I believe they're going to XC, but I'm not 100% sure.
@@johnUB4478the GC 221s are not intended for XC. Nothing confirmed in the public as yet anyway.
Pity about the 180’s. I used one from Moreton in Marsh to Reading way back in 2014. It was the most comfortable train we rode on during our 3 month UK holiday. We did 141 trains in that time, and the Voyagers were the worst, especially when travelling through the Midlands when they were often overloaded.
I'm a fan of the 180's too. Most people seem to dislike them.
They were nice, when they worked.
I think you'll find the UK's most hated trains are the gwr shithatchi 800's
I used to place Voyager's at the top of my shit list, but then realised most of the issue is the atrocious XCountry service with their horrific capacity problems...the Shitatchi are so utterly abysmal with the seat base problem and shaking that they have taken the crown now.
gwr ones arent great but they're fine, do the job and a fairly pleasent experience. avanti and lumo's 80x trains are really goos, but that's because the TOC was willing to spend more money on them
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
Too right! I had to endure one of them all the way from Port Talbot to Paddington! I couldn’t wait to get off it on arrival in Paddington!
OH GROW UP!!!! You’re only bitter cos they ain’t a bloody STEAM TRAIN OR BRITISH MADE !!! 🙄🙄🙄
Very good video Mate. I love Voyagers. Shame that they are really hated though. They are way better compared to the Adalentes in terms of reliabillity. And it's good that Grand Central have a few.
Never travelled with Grand Central before but I’ve been on several Cross Country services and never had any issues with the Voyager trains. They’ve always been very comfortable, a little noisy but less noisy than the Azuma’s and a damn site more pleasant interior too.
Do these Voyagers tilt or have Arriva disconnected the mechanism?
Great video. Enjoyed this very much.
The virgin voyagers seem to a lot better maintained than the cross country
Virgin and cross country were the same company.
@@andrewnelson4057 They were.. But I strongly agree with Camymanc- The ex Avanti/current Avanti sets are in a far superior condition compared with their Cross Country "cousins."
Not sure if it was just me, but every journey on the 180's was actually good. Not once was there a single breakdown in the 8 journeys i've taken on them.
exactly. ive talen a total of 0 journeys on them and out of all of thise journeys, the train never broke down
Nice video. I love the Avanti/ex Avanti Super Voyagers. I think if the the current Cross Country ones were refurbished to be identical to the Avanti ones, retained the Shop, had the better First Class offer and had far more carriages, they wouldn't be as disliked. Yes I realise it's extremely unlikely any of that will happen.
You often mention loo paper on the floor when reviewing toilets. This is due to pax being careless and I don't see how the TOC can do anything about that except between trips.
Good video! I’ve had to endure one of the these units on a trip I did not so long ago, but I did it northbound.
They seem a tad better than the voyagers that XC use, but I prefer the 180s. The one fundamental thing about them is, as you mention, they’re far too cramped. WHY? Why can’t this be noted before it’s too late? The seating needs to be more spacious. Get rid of hideous airline style seats and add more tables. For more capacity simply make them longer. Instead of five coaches make them eight or nine, or maybe even ten.
I've seen one before weeks aog because i see grand Central trains and northern rail but the class 221 and 220 are my favourite trains
Interesting route from Bradford to Doncaster.
I’ve heard that Grand Central want new Bi-mode trains and to replace Class 221 Voyagers and Class 180 Adelantes. I think that they should keep the Class 180 and Class 221 that have been cascaded from Avanti West Coast.
Subject to track access being extended.
I’d love to see these trains operating a direct service from York via Leeds Bradford and Manchester Victoria to Holyhead without having to change trains enroute, such as at Chester or Lladnuo, as there are not enough direct trains to Holyhead across the North of England at this capacity - eternally, TfW trains are always short of carriages and it’s a tight squeeze even on Avanti, as many passengers are on SailRail - there should be more dedicated SailRail services across the North of England, timed to meet Irish Ferries and Stena Check-Ins and ferry arrivals from Dublin, as the current SailRail Product offering needs a root and branch overhaul
That WAS the original plan.
It was granted city status by HM The Queen, also it is Doncaster Minster not Minister! St George Minster, with designs by Sir George Gilbert Scott
GC do often serve Pontefract on Sunday.
I love the voyagers
I would say Wakefield Kirkgate is one of the most depressing stations I've been to. Plus, from what I understand, it's not a very safe station in the evening.
I count myself lucky when I travel through it on my regular trips to Leeds (if I'm on a Northern service)
Can't wait to watch this
If they extended that black livery across the whole train they'd actually look really good
as it stands though, they look a bit half assed
The main problem with Voyagers is Cross Country using 4 coach formations when 8 or 12 is needed. I much prefer a Voyager to a Hitachi IET, which are truly dreadful trains.
The problem with 12 coach formations, is you also need inter unit gangways, and no "Inter-City" stock has them anymore....
The street stencil at 01:15 if of 'Bradford Jesus Man' Geoffrey Brindley (he has a Wiki). It has been painted over, without explanation, many months ago, so this film has obviously been some time in the editing.
The front entrance of the Interchange has reopened, but the shops and bus stops are still closed. On top of that the side ramp access has been shut. Combined with Bradford's chaotic multiple road rebuilds, that mean I, and many others, have to walk massive detours or walk in the road, if you can work out which way to go!
I use Grand Central a lot. It's the only direct service from Bradford to most of the stations on route; and while LNER do serve London from Forster Square, the frequency and run-times are pathetic. That, and the low cost, means I have put up with the 180's appalling reliability. The Voyagers are better in every way, apart from the space in Standard, but seeing it's usually less than half full between BDI and DON that is less important.
Nice video! Just wondering what equipment do you use when recording videos?
good commentry from you mate
Great video, as someone who travels to west yorkshire id be intrested to know what rail card you used for this journey.
Another Great video from you! Really wish to go on rrand central on day
Great video! The Voyagers are good trains if used on appropriate routes like London to Bradford/Sunderland.
With EMR offloading their 222s Grand Central should lease 10 of them so they can do away with the 10 class 180s and the 2 Class 221s.
Won’t happen as the 180s have been fitted with ETCS.
222’s Also aren’t route cleared up to Sunderland
@@cameronyoung6170 only because they haven’t needed to be. It’s academic.
I'd have a Voyager over a Cl 180 every day of the week!!! The 180s were just not suitable - rattly noisy and uncomfortable. The Voyagers are better though admittedly they aren't the very best - the ride is a bit suspect. Do the refurbished Voyagers still smell of wee like the Cross Country ones used to?
The chunk of concrete was approx 50cm x 50cm
I have heard they have been a lot of problems with the Voyagers.
I us the Doncaster to London route lots but only been on Grand Central once as I mainly travel with one of the others. I am not a fan of the Voyagers so that was I catch the others
Anyone who is old enough recall the days of British Rail will confirm there are no bad modern trains. Unless you are nostalgic for sitting on badly stained seats while last weeks plastic cups rolled around the floor. While the intercity 127 buffet service only opened for the last half hour of a 6 hour journey. However you did get exercise walk up and down the train looking for that one toilet that was working. Also you always got a seat as the trains were timetabled to run at a time no one wanted to travel
what's the name of the song around 1:00?
@13:05 that map of the train is a Virgin Trains one
Did you see the second class passengers in the first class carriage?
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
No I've never travelled on Grand Central.
Damn,,,,almost 2025 and the 180's are STILL as unreliable as ever!
You'd have thought they wold have fixed them by now.
Wow. Of you think that stop is a depressing state come to the states
Hi
grand central owned by Arriva say no more theyre useless
Gwr has better food options
Build maglev and replace long distance rapid trains with them. Increase stopping train frequency
We invented the railways yet are decades behind other countries..... That 1st class looks awful and shoddy...... Take a look at Japanese and Chinese railways they are miles ahead seen from 1st hand experience
those unites ant new they gust bean repainted in to new livery and used buy different line and compony they are good units gust that they very noisy they have toilets which smell to hi heaven
I don't like QR codes as not a smartphone owner, they should put some staff on for those like myself. What's a flat crossing, think you meant level crossing, please use English, you've spent too long abroad and forgotten your native tongue or is it?
Flat crossing is correct
Level junction is the US term.
Level crossing is a road/rail crossing. A flat crossing is 2 rail lines crossing. You can see the Newark flat crossing on Google Earth to get a better idea. These are rare in the UK
The sarcastic comment is not necessary.
'please use english'
haha, funny, search it uo as they are two entirely sifferent things
@@bfapple Especially as it arose from his lack of knowledge of the technical term, which had been used correctly in the video. As they say, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.