Nah, it's because they are too amazing to us. Imagine seeing someone who looks like a person but at the same time like a lightning bolt (that's how the Bible describes them), you'd freak out right?
@@ElCampeador99 Probably, but what intrigues me is that you can hear the leitmotif of Raidou's "Strange World" and P5's "King, Queen, and Slave" which I never heard anywhere else.
Listening to what Amemiya said about incorporating machine structure, or however he said it, into his ideas, it reminded me that pluto minions look very similar to the "skeleton" of a Furby.
This is a very great analysis and it refresh my knowledge on the Bible and give me new knowledge about the concept. In my opinion,the SMT 4 design always intrigued me. I really love Gabriel and Raphael but kinda hate Michael and Uriel. I see they could be based on biblical accurate angels despite likely it could be just chimera like.
Hey since you are talking about theological accuracy and how Kaneko studies a lot for his designs. Maybe talk about SMT 2 Satan next, how does that sound :))))))))))))))))))
I was thinking about doing one on "the adversary" (as in the entire Abrahamic archetype) but admittedly that one isn't much a priority since I haven't played SMT2 yet lol
I love this stuff! Will you explore other mythologies as well? I want to know more about Hindu and Japanese mythology specifically as I don’t know much about Eastern religions.
I have some notes for a video regarding Buddhism but I'll largely be sticking to Abrahamic religion just because that's what I have experience with. Even past me not wanting to mess up explaining something, generally how I get inspired to make notes on something is me having the background on a topic to be able to think a specific thing is interesting in the first place, if that makes sense. Like for instance I think kabbalic themes are very cool but if I didn't know anything about kabbalah even if I had a vague interest I wouldn't know what I should be looking for in whatever subject in the first place. Even for that Buddhist thing I mentioned earlier, it feels way more like taking shots in the dark looking for research material than I'm comfortable with and its a lot of "well I hope there's not some esoteric reference that I've never heard of that I could be missing here". tl;dr I'd like to but I also don't know much lol
I really enjoyed the video, Glibbb. I can definitely see now that my more positive take on the Merkabah mysticism used in SMTIV was really stretching things; at best, if this had been the influence, then it was very barebones. I suppose I do have a positive bias for Atlus Japan due to how much of an influence Friedrich Nietzsche's philosophy is as a persistent theme in their mainline games from Nocturne onward. I do have a few minor criticisms. I do think that they avoided worldbuilding issues by not using the literal Biblical descriptions of angels as a supernatural substance, because it seems to me that even the modern theologians have so many different - contradictory and even self-contradictory - views on this topic that it makes sense for them to fall back on their own Shinto criteria mixed with different mythologies in each game. They seem to have done a mostly good job in inculcating the mythology behind angel hierarchies and it makes sense that they would form a different criteria for what angels are comprised of from the Biblical canon when their series incorporates so many different deities and monsters from other religious and mythological beliefs as well. If they were to start adding a more literalist approach to the angels, what would that mean for the coherence of Gods and demons from other mythologies? Or even their angels, such as in Zoroastrianism? So, I think it makes sense that they decided instead on the explanation in IVA for coherence and worldbuilding purposes. I liked the approach of the video, but it was also a bit scatter-shot with the readings, I don't know how that could be improved though as you did a very good job in clarifying context, so perhaps it is just the common drawbacks of any lengthy video essay. Irrespective of that, I really enjoyed this and I think I learned quite a bit, so I thank you for that. I was never really keen on angel mythology and never really knew where to start reading as I always focused on the supernatural claims portion and you know how I view all that. I've found myself gravitating more towards other Semitic and Native American myths more recently, so I really appreciate a channel that helps me get a better understanding of Abrahamic myths which does its best to keep the content in appropriate context. I do wish they'd focus on deeper source materials though, like you mentioned at the end. Perhaps it is a conflict of creativity and keeping it authentic to the source material; they seemed to have wanted to try a new approach with SMTIV and it just didn't work out for fans. I would love it if they made another Devil Summoner focusing on Native American mythology and concepts again. Their usage of vision quests was really intriguing and criminally never used again after Soul Hackers. It is doubtful that they'll try to use original sources though; Mainline heavily builds itself on the Occult and Occultic ideas from Christian Kabbalah, to Chemtrail, to Theosophy, and so forth. We should expect SMTV to have some basis in conspiratorial Occultism. Kaneko once mentioned Raelism in an interview for example and it wouldn't surprise me if concepts from it showed up in future MegaTen stories. So, we should always keep in mind, the basis for the worldbuilding and conflicts will largely be influenced by Occultic themes above all.
To be clear I don't think they necessarily should've used literal depictions, what would make a SMT design good depends on the context of both its origin and use in the story imo. Also I'm not really sure what you're referring to in regards to coherence. I wouldn't think a literal take on the archangels would have anything to do with the other designs. Especially the Zoroastrian designs considering (my interpretation of them is) that they're meant to represent how alien they are from humankind. To my knowledge many ancient Zoroastrians didn't believe that their religious figures could be accurately represented artistically
@@KidCapes That seems to be a statement made by many religions though. No matter how clear the depiction is, some religious adherents want to keep holding onto theology having a mysterious force or mysterious ideas attached to it so they don't have to think about it. In terms of mythology, it leads to contradictions in coherence. When you mentioned the substance of angels and had quotes on it from old to modern theologians, it seems to me like they themselves didn't want it to be clearly understood for the same reason that many religions don't; it makes faith look ridiculous and so they prefer keeping it "mysterious"
Well even assuming that's the case it doesn't have much to do with the larger conversation at hand. Theoretically, you could even make incoherency part of the design itself. I don't think any of that has much (if any) bearing on their design philosophy, especially when you consider that Kaneko isn't around in that capacity anymore.
theosophy is pretty dope as an idea, but dear god is it confusing. there's only so much super saint Germain and pals you can understand before it gets into the solar systems
@@3kojimbles895 How is Theosophy dope? It seems very systematic to me especially if you try to understand different expressions of esoterism as a whole. And it's not that confusing if you read about it step by step. Same with getting into science. You can't pretend to understand quantums if you don't understand what is an atom.
This is just speculation but I think Metatron being robotic might be specific to his context in smt II. That is, he is a random encounter in the final dungeon, and smt I and II already make the connection with law enemy encunters being literal machines. So having Metatron be one would be sort of an extension of that I think. And, regarding the interpretation of the Jews simply fearing angels, what's the exact reason? Is it fear due to that one Exodus passage you quote or what?
"The illustration is a robot made of metal that shines silver all over because it was interpreted as an inorganic 'artificial angel' created by the will of God. This also emphasizes the cool and combative side." From Kaneko Works 2
I’m curious how Gabriel’s design changed from SMT 2 onward, considering the Canon always depicts him as a man, while the others stayed relatively unchanged.
I'm not exactly sure. From what I've seen depictions of female Gabriel are fairly common in Japan. I think it might come from like weird feminist new age or neopagan stuff that made it's way overseas, because that's a recurring theme in it. I have a video planned where I go over something similar.
@@KidCapes Gabriel's most important role was announcing the birth of Jesus to Mary so I can see how there could be feminine associations of motherhood with the character resulting in this mutation in popular media.
@@KidCapes Gabriel is depicted as an androgenous figure, and Japan loves waifus I think that they pretty much just wanted to make him as a girl because they like it more like that
I completely understand if you choose not to respond, but I would like to know what you mean by "be not afraid" being related to their appearence to be something harmful
Great video, but I do feel that the mechanical looking archangels fit with the theme of the game, especially the idea that demons cannot change themselves like Dagda from SMT4A. It also adds to the idea that YHWH is degrading, in SMT4A it lost it's godlike image and became more akin to a true demon. And I am not sure if I remember correctly, but would the church be rendered obsolete in SMT4 and it's spin-off? Either way, I had no problem with the designs, especially since I have been studying Gnosticism.
I'd actually agree they fit the themes of the game itself, they definitely represent how demons are subject to the whims of human thought. My issue is that there wasn't much effort in trying to make them match the source material, which is really an issue I've had with ATLUS since Kaneko stopped illustrating for them. (SMT4/4A SPOILERS) I can see where you're coming from with them fitting with YHVH's form in 4A but I don't really think it makes sense considering the things done in 4A to get Him to that point hadn't taken place. Not to mention I'm skeptical of that plot point having been even thought of during the development of 4 (tho its arguable if that even matters). Also I'd say in 4's law ending, the church is invalidated but I don't know if you could say that for 4A since it would occur in the middle of 4's neutral route. also gnosticism is cool i really like reading about early church history :) I'd like to do a video on that too on some point but it takes forever for me to not only research but then write, record, and edit. One day though.
Demons in general have always been compared to computer programs due to being unable to change themselves throughout all of SMT. It is pretty much the basis of the demon summoning program. The redesign to be more mechanical is redundant.
I wouldn't really call it redundant that implies it's negative. They're trying to find more ways to weave the themes into more parts of the games even beyond the writing and I think it helps make the work more cohesive and adds depth.
I enjoyed this video, but I do have to say I wish more focus was directed towards the game, and its portrayal of the angels as a whole. The bits referencing the designs were my favorite parts of the video and I would personally like to see that direction more, but, of course, it is up to you.
You referenced the passage in Judges but it should be noted whenever scripture says "THE angel of the Lord" it is understood to be referring to God the Son.
Se-pul-kur is the correct pronunciation of sepulchre as I always understood it right? It’s kinda jarring because va guy takes his sweet ass time with it. Just a nitpick.
I'm not that fond of the main four archangels from SMT2 other than Gabriel or Uriel honestly but I still prefer them to them as a whole to the ones from SMT4. Also SMT2 has some really cool angels like Remiel, Raguel, or Aniel. That said, the SMT2 ones are moreso based on like classical interpretations of angels than literal biblical ones.
Biblically accurate angels likely needed to say “be not afraid” cuz they were legitimately terrifying monsters and many of them weren’t even close to humanoid.
My grandmother taught me that the guardian angels scream 'be not afraid' because they appear in moments of great urge to calm the spirit of men.
Nah, it's because they are too amazing to us. Imagine seeing someone who looks like a person but at the same time like a lightning bolt (that's how the Bible describes them), you'd freak out right?
@@chicoti3 that's not amazing. That's a freaking abomination.
@@Darth_Bateman freaking abomination, amazing beings... No difference. Thing is they'd amaze us.
@@chicoti3 so, Amazing Spiderman 2's Electro?
@@denkerbosu3551 that one is just a lost member of the blue man group
THANK YOU for literally doing the LORD's work here!
Oh hey I know you from tumblr thanks for making those art scans on your blog!
@@DamienStarry0w0 I remember you, Maverick! No problem, I was happy to do it!
@Eirikr aye man shouts out for making that blog post on how to optimize yoshitsune in Smt 4 🤟 it’s hella helpful.
@@zombieslayermf I don't even remember that one, but glad it was useful!
Megatendies as a nickname earned my respect.
This video really makes you sound like an actually very smart and well-behaved person
I like it
Wait Peta?! What are you doing here! Oh wait, right it's an SMT video. Sup dude?
Bible narrator is top tier. Also I would love if you talked about Etrian Odyssey in some capacity. No one really talks about the series
EO is one of my favorite series but I don't really think I would have much interesting to say about it tbh
whoa what is that background music all of it is a bop ngl
SMT III Large Map Theme
@@ElCampeador99 Double checking, the bgm isn't quite the same Large Map Theme. An unreleased version then?
@@EnvyMizuhashi it’s probably edited to loop the initial part.
@@ElCampeador99 Probably, but what intrigues me is that you can hear the leitmotif of Raidou's "Strange World" and P5's "King, Queen, and Slave" which I never heard anywhere else.
@@EnvyMizuhashi you can also hear the shop theme from SMT4
Listening to what Amemiya said about incorporating machine structure, or however he said it, into his ideas, it reminded me that pluto minions look very similar to the "skeleton" of a Furby.
I really loved that the BGM switched to "Hideout of the Chickens" when you were describing their history of fearing angels... like, being chicken
This is probably the closest I'm getting to going to church lol
Oh dear...
Devil summoner and Nocturnes large map themes go strangely well together.
Great Video glibbb, the editing, music and the VA makes this a top quality video.
Another absolute BANGER from the based and very tall capeskid :)
Another great vid from the glibmeister
Editing is on point, hope your channel blows up with other SMT fans
Great work, my man! Excited to see what else you wanna talk about that
This is a very great analysis and it refresh my knowledge on the Bible and give me new knowledge about the concept. In my opinion,the SMT 4 design always intrigued me. I really love Gabriel and Raphael but kinda hate Michael and Uriel. I see they could be based on biblical accurate angels despite likely it could be just chimera like.
Turned out awesome Capes, props to you and KDA!
Just discovered this channel, brilliant video.
Hey since you are talking about theological accuracy and how Kaneko studies a lot for his designs. Maybe talk about SMT 2 Satan next, how does that sound :))))))))))))))))))
I was thinking about doing one on "the adversary" (as in the entire Abrahamic archetype) but admittedly that one isn't much a priority since I haven't played SMT2 yet lol
Great video man
I love this stuff! Will you explore other mythologies as well? I want to know more about Hindu and Japanese mythology specifically as I don’t know much about Eastern religions.
I have some notes for a video regarding Buddhism but I'll largely be sticking to Abrahamic religion just because that's what I have experience with. Even past me not wanting to mess up explaining something, generally how I get inspired to make notes on something is me having the background on a topic to be able to think a specific thing is interesting in the first place, if that makes sense. Like for instance I think kabbalic themes are very cool but if I didn't know anything about kabbalah even if I had a vague interest I wouldn't know what I should be looking for in whatever subject in the first place. Even for that Buddhist thing I mentioned earlier, it feels way more like taking shots in the dark looking for research material than I'm comfortable with and its a lot of "well I hope there's not some esoteric reference that I've never heard of that I could be missing here".
tl;dr I'd like to but I also don't know much lol
@@KidCapes understandable. You do you.
Very well done sir
I really enjoyed the video, Glibbb. I can definitely see now that my more positive take on the Merkabah mysticism used in SMTIV was really stretching things; at best, if this had been the influence, then it was very barebones. I suppose I do have a positive bias for Atlus Japan due to how much of an influence Friedrich Nietzsche's philosophy is as a persistent theme in their mainline games from Nocturne onward.
I do have a few minor criticisms. I do think that they avoided worldbuilding issues by not using the literal Biblical descriptions of angels as a supernatural substance, because it seems to me that even the modern theologians have so many different - contradictory and even self-contradictory - views on this topic that it makes sense for them to fall back on their own Shinto criteria mixed with different mythologies in each game. They seem to have done a mostly good job in inculcating the mythology behind angel hierarchies and it makes sense that they would form a different criteria for what angels are comprised of from the Biblical canon when their series incorporates so many different deities and monsters from other religious and mythological beliefs as well. If they were to start adding a more literalist approach to the angels, what would that mean for the coherence of Gods and demons from other mythologies? Or even their angels, such as in Zoroastrianism? So, I think it makes sense that they decided instead on the explanation in IVA for coherence and worldbuilding purposes. I liked the approach of the video, but it was also a bit scatter-shot with the readings, I don't know how that could be improved though as you did a very good job in clarifying context, so perhaps it is just the common drawbacks of any lengthy video essay.
Irrespective of that, I really enjoyed this and I think I learned quite a bit, so I thank you for that. I was never really keen on angel mythology and never really knew where to start reading as I always focused on the supernatural claims portion and you know how I view all that. I've found myself gravitating more towards other Semitic and Native American myths more recently, so I really appreciate a channel that helps me get a better understanding of Abrahamic myths which does its best to keep the content in appropriate context. I do wish they'd focus on deeper source materials though, like you mentioned at the end. Perhaps it is a conflict of creativity and keeping it authentic to the source material; they seemed to have wanted to try a new approach with SMTIV and it just didn't work out for fans. I would love it if they made another Devil Summoner focusing on Native American mythology and concepts again. Their usage of vision quests was really intriguing and criminally never used again after Soul Hackers. It is doubtful that they'll try to use original sources though; Mainline heavily builds itself on the Occult and Occultic ideas from Christian Kabbalah, to Chemtrail, to Theosophy, and so forth. We should expect SMTV to have some basis in conspiratorial Occultism. Kaneko once mentioned Raelism in an interview for example and it wouldn't surprise me if concepts from it showed up in future MegaTen stories. So, we should always keep in mind, the basis for the worldbuilding and conflicts will largely be influenced by Occultic themes above all.
To be clear I don't think they necessarily should've used literal depictions, what would make a SMT design good depends on the context of both its origin and use in the story imo. Also I'm not really sure what you're referring to in regards to coherence. I wouldn't think a literal take on the archangels would have anything to do with the other designs. Especially the Zoroastrian designs considering (my interpretation of them is) that they're meant to represent how alien they are from humankind. To my knowledge many ancient Zoroastrians didn't believe that their religious figures could be accurately represented artistically
@@KidCapes That seems to be a statement made by many religions though. No matter how clear the depiction is, some religious adherents want to keep holding onto theology having a mysterious force or mysterious ideas attached to it so they don't have to think about it. In terms of mythology, it leads to contradictions in coherence. When you mentioned the substance of angels and had quotes on it from old to modern theologians, it seems to me like they themselves didn't want it to be clearly understood for the same reason that many religions don't; it makes faith look ridiculous and so they prefer keeping it "mysterious"
Well even assuming that's the case it doesn't have much to do with the larger conversation at hand. Theoretically, you could even make incoherency part of the design itself. I don't think any of that has much (if any) bearing on their design philosophy, especially when you consider that Kaneko isn't around in that capacity anymore.
theosophy is pretty dope as an idea, but dear god is it confusing. there's only so much super saint Germain and pals you can understand before it gets into the solar systems
@@3kojimbles895 How is Theosophy dope? It seems very systematic to me especially if you try to understand different expressions of esoterism as a whole. And it's not that confusing if you read about it step by step. Same with getting into science. You can't pretend to understand quantums if you don't understand what is an atom.
This is just speculation but I think Metatron being robotic might be specific to his context in smt II.
That is, he is a random encounter in the final dungeon, and smt I and II already make the connection with law enemy encunters being literal machines. So having Metatron be one would be sort of an extension of that I think.
And, regarding the interpretation of the Jews simply fearing angels, what's the exact reason? Is it fear due to that one Exodus passage you quote or what?
no
@@Larrue lawrue
Metatron was made like this because Kaneko thought that his name sounds like a machine's oneI think
"The illustration is a robot made of metal that shines silver all over because it was interpreted as an inorganic 'artificial angel' created by the will of God. This also emphasizes the cool and combative side."
From Kaneko Works 2
wtf you stole the name of the guy in my video
This video is basically bible study
Cool stuff bro
Lovely analysis on my allies.
Great video.
The angels honestly look like Berserk Apostles.
I never thought about it like that. Good point.
I’m curious how Gabriel’s design changed from SMT 2 onward, considering the Canon always depicts him as a man, while the others stayed relatively unchanged.
I'm not exactly sure. From what I've seen depictions of female Gabriel are fairly common in Japan. I think it might come from like weird feminist new age or neopagan stuff that made it's way overseas, because that's a recurring theme in it. I have a video planned where I go over something similar.
@@KidCapes Gabriel's most important role was announcing the birth of Jesus to Mary so I can see how there could be feminine associations of motherhood with the character resulting in this mutation in popular media.
Gabriel is also a common name in western countries. Atleast in Europe. Many women are named 'Gabriela' or 'Gabrielle'.
@@KidCapes Gabriel is depicted as an androgenous figure, and Japan loves waifus
I think that they pretty much just wanted to make him as a girl because they like it more like that
this is gold wish i can like twice
That intro killed me
MEGATENDIES
omg the guy's pronunciation of sepulchre kills me lmaooo
Amemiya's tattoo on the inside of his finger reads "culero" which in english can be translated as scumbag or asshole.
Cool vid but yo that mix in the background is sickkkkk dude. Where did you find it?
this video is criminally underwatched
is that a word? well it is now
i mean. wouldn't you be scared if a facet of the all powerful showed up in front of you? I'd think i was dying
I'm a simple man... I see a SMT deep lore video, I like and subscribe 🤷🏽♂️
😏
I completely understand if you choose not to respond, but I would like to know what you mean by "be not afraid" being related to their appearence to be something harmful
Its harmful in that its huge misinformation.
Great video, but I do feel that the mechanical looking archangels fit with the theme of the game, especially the idea that demons cannot change themselves like Dagda from SMT4A. It also adds to the idea that YHWH is degrading, in SMT4A it lost it's godlike image and became more akin to a true demon. And I am not sure if I remember correctly, but would the church be rendered obsolete in SMT4 and it's spin-off? Either way, I had no problem with the designs, especially since I have been studying Gnosticism.
I'd actually agree they fit the themes of the game itself, they definitely represent how demons are subject to the whims of human thought. My issue is that there wasn't much effort in trying to make them match the source material, which is really an issue I've had with ATLUS since Kaneko stopped illustrating for them.
(SMT4/4A SPOILERS)
I can see where you're coming from with them fitting with YHVH's form in 4A but I don't really think it makes sense considering the things done in 4A to get Him to that point hadn't taken place. Not to mention I'm skeptical of that plot point having been even thought of during the development of 4 (tho its arguable if that even matters). Also I'd say in 4's law ending, the church is invalidated but I don't know if you could say that for 4A since it would occur in the middle of 4's neutral route.
also gnosticism is cool i really like reading about early church history :) I'd like to do a video on that too on some point but it takes forever for me to not only research but then write, record, and edit. One day though.
Demons in general have always been compared to computer programs due to being unable to change themselves throughout all of SMT. It is pretty much the basis of the demon summoning program. The redesign to be more mechanical is redundant.
I wouldn't really call it redundant that implies it's negative. They're trying to find more ways to weave the themes into more parts of the games even beyond the writing and I think it helps make the work more cohesive and adds depth.
@@KidCapes agree they could at least have keep the wings and made robotic like metatron
Hey dope video. Was wondering what kinda mic you use for recording.
I use a blue snowball at the moment
Smt is jrpg peak change my mind
Is it bad that I just like these designs because I think they're cool lol
yes because they completely disregard the source, even fate grand order in all its artistic liberties is more accurate than this
If you saw one of his designs you've seen them all
"Culero" tattoo that's pretty funny. Does that word mean something different in other countries?
Holy shit this videos deserves at leats 1M view. Great job!
Who's reading the bersicles, I like it so much.
I need more of these lol
What's the name of the bible narrator?
I enjoyed this video, but I do have to say I wish more focus was directed towards the game, and its portrayal of the angels as a whole. The bits referencing the designs were my favorite parts of the video and I would personally like to see that direction more, but, of course, it is up to you.
You referenced the passage in Judges but it should be noted whenever scripture says "THE angel of the Lord" it is understood to be referring to God the Son.
Se-pul-kur is the correct pronunciation of sepulchre as I always understood it right? It’s kinda jarring because va guy takes his sweet ass time with it. Just a nitpick.
For the heart to be. Your eyes set you only so free. Your mind can be set free.
What do you think about the designs before 4?
I'm not that fond of the main four archangels from SMT2 other than Gabriel or Uriel honestly but I still prefer them to them as a whole to the ones from SMT4. Also SMT2 has some really cool angels like Remiel, Raguel, or Aniel. That said, the SMT2 ones are moreso based on like classical interpretations of angels than literal biblical ones.
Megatendies
Megatendies, lol.
YHVH video never
Gonna be honest I prefer the SMT IV angels
Same.
Megatendies? Lol
Black Shapiro
Peepee poopoo
The Angels take on humans form so we humans won't be afraid. We can not look upon a Divine being's the Angels are Celestials entity's.
I can't believe you went so long without talking about horrible western media good job :')
Biblically accurate angels likely needed to say “be not afraid” cuz they were legitimately terrifying monsters and many of them weren’t even close to humanoid.
Damn, Ben Shapiro spitting facts
Fairy tales inspiring fairy tales
Awesome video.
Who's reading the bersicles, I like it so much.