Something you sorta missed about the Law route is that on Chaos, the "survival of the fittest, might is the right to rule" mentality inevitably ends up returning to the hierarchy and order of Law as a new demon King is crowned. That's what makes chaos feel so bittersweet--its an extremely transient system that inevitably folds back in on itself into Law. Apocalypse's ending reveals why this is the case.
SMT4 was my first non Persona SMT game, and and I genuinely didn't know about the whole post apocalyptic setting, I just thought it was the game with cool samurai and some futuristic gadgets, so imagine my surprise when I went to Tokyo the first time
I remember being on vacation, 17 years old, being bored because there was not wifi, I walked to the nearest Gamestop and 2 games caught my attention, "Shin Megami Tensei 4" and "Bravely Default", bought both and it was a REALLY good decision :3
Glad you got bravely default. I still have yet to try even one SMT game even though I want to start with persona first but after hacking my 3ds and having pretty much all of Nintendo library in one console I want to try this and apocalypse out
The interesting thing about this game's story is how it was part of a grander narrative written by Kazuma Kaneko. There's a lot that goes unsaid in this game, most relevant to the story is the fact that Flynn, Jonathan and Walter are all reincarnations of Counter Demon Force members (Jonathan being a reincarnation of Kiyoharu, and Walter being a reincarnation of Kenji), which allows them to become Samurai, as the gauntlet chooses those with similarities to previous wielders. Additionally, blasted and infernal tokyo are meant to represnt what would have happened if the previous Flynn had sided with Kenji or Kiyoharu.
@@DengueBurger the game itself. when the whites show you those possible futures, is what if the original flynn didn't fuse with masakado. the whites also call flynn the fifth son through out the game, meaning he has reincarnated multiple times. also, apocalypse has a lot of lore that helps and supports what OP said.
@@kikellanosdelagarza so my theory that blasted Tokyo is the future of law ending while infernal Tokyo is Future of chaos ending is real? If yes i also have a theory that d'aat from Smt V is actually Blasted Tokyo and the entire world
I think Walter and Jonathan are interesting in that Walter ends up supporting the most classist system, one based on strength and social darwinism, with Flynn apparently rising to become king in the chaos ending. Jonathan meanwhile is from the upper crust, but the angels force equality and abolish the caste system, driving away the king.
(I posted this in a reply just now, but I figured it was important enough to make its own post, so apologies for the double post) The issue with getting the Neutral ending is largely due to math. The game tracks your alignment on a scale of -100 to +100, and whenever you make an alignment influencing dialog choice, the game will add or subtract from your alignment score (though sometimes the game will just do it without giving you a choice, such as when you have to rescue the VIPs). If your score is at or below -8, you're Chaos aligned. If your score is at or above +8, you're Law aligned. If your score falls between -8 and +8, you're Neutral. For the most part the system works fine since most alignment shifts are either +/- 1 or 5. However, there are 3 points in the game where the player has the choice between getting +10 or -10 to their alignment. One is choosing between siding with Jonathon or Walter about what to do with Lilith. One is optional, where you can speak to a woman in Ikebukuro and say you're a human (+10) or a demon (-10). Both of those are fine, and don't usually cause major issues. The last one is where the problem lies, and it's just before the alignment lock. Assuming you don't go for the White/Nihilism ending (in which case Alignment is pointless to you), you'll be asked whether you want to preserve the status quo (+10) or destroy it (-10). Do note that there is no option to get past this point without choosing one of these. *Immediately* after you answer, your alignment is locked in and you begin your alignment's endgame. You might have seen the issue. If not, here's an example. Say I wanted to specifically go for the Neutral ending. So for the entire playthrough I alternate between Law and Chaos answers. Heck, I even did such a good job at it that I get to the final alignment choice with a score of 0 (though I don't know this). I choose not to go for the White/Nihilism ending, and then choose to preserve the status quo. After the fade in, I find out I'm on the Law path. No biggie, right? I'll just load my last save and pick to destroy the status quo. After the fade in, I'm on the Chaos path. Huh? How is that possible? If we look at the math, we can see what the problem is. I start at 0 (Neutral), and then pick to preserve the status quo (+10): 0 + 10 = +10 (ie Law). If I choose to destroy the status quo (-10): 0 - 10 = -10 (Chaos). Even if my score was -1 or +1 going into this, it wouldn't change the outcome. Remember how I said that you can't progress past this without modifying your alignment score? Yeah. (tl;dr) **You can be too Neutral to get the Neutral ending in SMT4**
I followed a guide trying to get see all available endings on first play-trough followed with a ng+ and I still got stuck with a chaos without the option to change it with the final question, which means I was so into chaos that the ikebukuro and the status quo could not change me, so Im assuming there are a lot of undocumented choices (or at least undocumented at the time). It totally killed my interest in the continuing the game past my chaos ending.
@@AntonioCardenasT you did something wrong or maybe the guide was flawed as shit, I have used the guide that nam speak about in the video a year ago and I got the neutral aligment lock, dont give up yet and try again but always checking what you are doing. The coment of adoochi is useful but he forgets to say that you can choose not to speak with that lady which eliminate the +/-10 from the aligment score, in fact the guide itself says we should always avoid that interaction like the plague. Also we have to watch out for the side quests since some of them add to the aligment score. Is very annoying to rely so much on a guide to get this ending in particular but the thing is that this is the most complete experience that the game offers so getting it is somehow worth it. Sorry for the rant.😅
The reveal of SMT4's setting is so goddamn brilliant. It's nothing particularly new for an SMT game, but the way that it's presented absolutely blew me away. Amazing game.
I mean all SMT games are pretty much soft remakes of Megami Tensei II (except if wich is a soft remake of Megami Tensei 1) so they all are pretty similar in plot (also Majin Tensei 1 and 2 now that I think about it).
@Fanjanhong * i love both the dungeons and combat. The dungeons only get frustrating in sector E onwards. Although I would prefer the press turn system, I like demon co-op.
@Fanjanhong * SMT 1 was perfect for it's time. Obviously it is more primitive than the modern games, but it is perfectly serviceable, you are just not into classic WRPGs
That moment when you beat the Minotaur and Medusa and see that you're actually in modern Tokyo blew my fucking mind. It was my first SMT game and I didn't know what to expect, so I went in completely blind and not really expecting much. That, the Tokyo overworld music and the moments where you go to the alternate Tokyos will stay in my mind forever. I kinda wish SMT5 had so many memorable moments as 4. I feel like SMT4 in the gameplay style of 5 would be the best Megami Tensei game ever.
This is my personal favorite mainline game, I adore it so much. Everything about it is just perfection; the story, gameplay, characters, themes, and music. It may be a perfect starting point, but it will never get old or become worse with more games that you play. It is timeless, and I love this game so much.
They need to remaster IV and add Apocalypse's smirk/hama/mudo rework. Maybe also make Neutral ending a bit easier to ensure you'll get if you're specifically going for it.
This is a game that I can always talk/listen other people talking about it, whether it be in a positive or negative way. I deeply enjoy it in every way possible. The story, characters, gameplay, SOUNDTRACK, ambience... I just can't get enough of it. That doesn't mean I ignore all the flaws you mentioned, but the other aspects overshadow the cons for me. Traditional SMT formula brought to modern times, it truly reminds me of SMT I but on steroids because now we get a more fleshed storyline with the voice acting and expanded script.
I always love the little drops of comedy you drop in your videos, since your voice is so calm and certain, those moments where you say something like "When humans take the red pill, they become so based that they turn into demons" completely throw me for a loop and make me chuckle out of surprise Keep up the great work chief
I definitely just reset when I get the wrong ally. And I'll play through if it isn't compatible with their strength. But when you get an ally with their weakness, things tend to go a lot more smoothly!
Your issue with the Demon Search was not actually an issue when it was originally created in Devil Survivor. In that game there was a search function and the classic fusion method (selecting two demons manually).
Devil Survivor fusion is also some of the best in the series imo. It has a much more controlled demon list. Not much filler or waste. Not difficult to fill the compendium at all. Though I pity anyone who tries to fill out 4's compendium just because of how much trash there is.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 the one frustrating thing about the megaten series as a whole is that you often see mechanics in one game that you wish were a franchise standard.
@@Fermin-hw5pd now think about how the press turn system was replaced by the demon co-op system. Although I like it, its so limiting in the aligment aspect.
@@denkerbosu3551 It can be a bit broken though, but it's hard to get the whole team to be the same alignment sometimes, at least the press turn returned later
Thank you for the video. SMT IV was my first mainline game and my favorite game in general. Initially, I thought this game would entirely play out in a fantasy setting. I remember my mind being blown when Flynn and co. went deeper in Naraku and discovered Tokyo underneath.
I did a replay of IV recently after playing the nocturne remaster (first replay of nocturne in a decade+) and have come to the conclusion that IV is kinda a better game overall. Or at least it's much more fun to replay and more engaging. I was eager to keep playing all night vs sitting there with nocturne going "ugh I remember this dungeon it's a slog" Still both excellent games
Definitely a contentious opinion. I think both just had very different attitudes going into their production. 4A for example is beloved for how much it improved upon stat spreads and skill choice, but is the first SMT story I genuinely hated. 3 stuck by a lot of the basics when it came to dungeon crawling even with the switch to 3D graphics, along with Strange Journey being painfully nostalgic in that area. 4 was an excellent revival of the series with not as much thought going into how combat would work while still having it be enjoyable and seemed to want to focus more on the story and your involvement in it. Aside from smarter dungeon design, it really does feel more akin to 1 & 2 in how your decisions influence the story slightly, but not hugely.
i definetly prefer nocturne dungeons compared to pretty much going in a straight line in smt 4.I cant remember any place Ive been trough in smt 4 because all of them feel exactly the same.
I can't put down IV. It was the same when it played V, and all of the Persona games lol. I have Nocturne HD on the way but I'm disappointed it's not as good
I got the neutral ending in my first playthrough, and I played according to my beliefs, so I don't know how hard it is to get if you're actually going for it
The issue with getting the Neutral ending is largely due to math. The game tracks your alignment on a scale of -100 to +100, and whenever you make an alignment influencing dialog choice, the game will add or subtract from your alignment score (though sometimes the game will just do it without giving you a choice, such as when you have to rescue the VIPs). If your score is at or below -8, you're Chaos aligned. If your score is at or above +8, you're Law aligned. If your score falls between -8 and +8, you're Neutral. For the most part the system works fine since most alignment shifts are either +/- 1 or 5. However, there are 3 points in the game where the player has the choice between getting +10 or -10 to their alignment. One is choosing between siding with Jonathon or Walter about what to do with Lilith. One is optional, where you can speak to a woman in Ikebukuro and say you're a human (+10) or a demon (-10). Both of those are fine, and don't usually cause major issues. The last one is where the problem lies, and it's just before the alignment lock. Assuming you don't go for the White/Nihilism ending (in which case Alignment is pointless to you), you'll be asked whether you want to preserve the status quo (+10) or destroy it (-10). Do note that there is no option to get past this point without choosing one of these. *Immediately* after you answer, your alignment is locked in and you begin your alignment's endgame. You might have seen the issue. If not, here's an example. Say I wanted to specifically go for the Neutral ending. So for the entire playthrough I alternate between Law and Chaos answers. Heck, I even did such a good job at it that I get to the final alignment choice with a score of 0 (though I don't know this). I choose not to go for the White/Nihilism ending, and then choose to preserve the status quo. After the fade in, I find out I'm on the Law path. No biggie, right? I'll just load my last save and pick to destroy the status quo. After the fade in, I'm on the Chaos path. Huh? How is that possible? If we look at the math, we can see what the problem is. I start at 0 (Neutral), and then pick to preserve the status quo (+10): 0 + 10 = +10 (ie Law). If I choose to destroy the status quo (-10): 0 - 10 = -10 (Chaos). Even if my score was -1 or +1 going into this, it wouldn't change the outcome. Remember how I said that you can't progress past this without modifying your alignment score? Yeah. (tl;dr) **You can be too Neutral to get the Neutral ending in SMT4**
My problem is after you activate the reactor the first time you basically get a sh"t ton of law points and have no opportunity to get more chaos points.
@@Adoochi I forgot about that! That's truly a dick move on the games part, but I think I aligned with Walter before, and did almost all of the side quests that also grant you points for those things, or so I suppose, because I remember the white told me I wanted one thing but went for another, and sent me with Stephen. But yeah, I see it now, but in the end that's how it went, so I guess I am a neutral kind of guy
Most of those hours being spent restarting because you talked to the woman in ikebukuro and fucked up getting the neutral ending and only realised it when you see Jonathan in the white forest
I definitely want to talk about those games in the future! It just comes down to where I fit it into my upload schedule. Both are on the review list though
What is really cool about the minotaur fight is that it is a reference to the first megami tensei game all the way back on the Famicom(NES). It was the first boss in the game, and after defeating it, you then realized the game is bigger than you first thought
This is the game I started with and it's still my favorite in the series. This game's soundtrack never gets old. Glad that SMTV seems to be continuing with the same style. Great video as always
SMT IV was my fourth SMT and I think it is one of the best. It has a much better story than SMT 1 and SMT Nocturne and the fact that you can choose what skills your character and demons have put it above Strange Journey. Strange Journey still had a better story.
Strange Journey is stressful but had, subjectively, a better story and definitely better music. Now I wonder if it was because of the legendary music why the story felt so impactful.
@@cirkleobserver3217 I’m playing 4 twice now and I honestly didn’t realize it had soundtracks. Sounds like just ambience for the sake of it. Unless by “4” you meant Persona 4.
I *really* like the White ending. It's a lot more somber, and the fact that there is no final boss in favour of just beating an inanimate object until it explodes really hit different. It gave such a unique feeling compared to the rest of the game that I can't help but love it.
Neutral path is super easy to get. One. Don't do any side quests until you are in the alignment lock. First choice at the top is to be selected when "choice" appears on the screen. When you are about to meet Yuriko, go left on all three choices in that corridor. Side with Jonathon when your team splits so go kill Lilith. After that, continue to pick the top choice until the White ask if you are gonna peserve the status quo or destroy it. Choose destroy the order of things. Boom. You're locked in neutral route. Then you can do all the side quests without worrying about getting alignment points that will throw you off. I tested this method twice. Both times I wound up in the Neutral endgame. Good video.
@@komi-samabeliever7319 yes. For the love of god, don't talk to her. She gives you ten points either way which throws you off big time. Ignore that c*nt.
@@NamsCompendium I did every single challenge quest as it appeared (unless I was too weak at the time) since I'm a completionist which resulted in me needing to use a guide for a lot of them just to figure out where to go. I think one solution to this (apart from a better map like you said) would be to allow for the overworld flight ability to be unlocked a lot earlier though, since by the time you do most of the quests might already be completed.
True story: I have crippling ocd and anxiety and my play time for this game was well over 200 hours. According to the end game stats, most of that time was spent in the fusion menu. That's not even counting the times I reloaded saves to redo demon fusions. I have a problem
Let me tell you, I was obsessed with JRPG in my teens, and when I discovered SMT, I got insane over it. It was just the traditional turn based system that I liked, so I was in love. I played nocturne first (after Persona 3), and the game being so dark and lonely made me curious. I've never seen anything like that before, it was the opposite of the franchise I played before (FF). So after Nocturne, I began to play all the games, from the 1st. I played all of them in order, and I had no expectations on IV, but I was surprised. In general I think I'm absolutely impartial about the franchise because of how much I was in love in my teens, but the IV has a lot in common with SMT I and II. Apocalypse is practically to IV what SMT II is to I. I was amazed, even the final boss is "the same". I love IV because of how much it takes from the older releases and mix it up awesomely. And the funny thing about it is that SMTV, that I'm playing right now, is really like nocturne. Is almost like they are rereleasing all the games, strangely.
I remember hearing the neutral was pretty though to get, so imagine my shock when I tried to do chaos and accidently fell ass backwards into neutral instead. On one hand I'm annoyed because I wanted neutral to be my last playthrough, but on the other hand not gonna lie being so law aligned that me actively trying to be chaotic lead to me being neutral was really funny.
My first SMT game, and one of the best in my opinion. It's a bit jank with its combat, and the DLC is.....wanting at time, but it has an excellent story, fun demons to mess around with, and massive replayability between it's main routes (though getting the Neutral Ending is simultaneously difficult yet brilliantly designed without a guide). All in a great game!
Nah, getting the neutral ending is terrible design to be honest because rather than having a conviction for neutral, you constantly have to flip-flop between law and chaos and therefore Flynn looks more indecisive than anything else (and stumbles into the route by sheer luck). The one neutral choice you get at the very beginning gets you openly mocked by everyone else, your own AI included, and after that the game doesn't even give you the choice to maintain neutrality. Locking you out of the NPC that gauges alignment for a long stretch before the alignment lock only makes the problem worse.
@@segafreak2000 Fair enough criticism, mate! I just thought it brilliant in that it actually requires a person to be fairly neutral overall in their decisions (storywise, they're free to powergame and do exploits all they like), rather than go down a strictly defined and determined Neutral Route like with Chaos and Law. Still, if the old way of doing it was not broke, why DID they decide to fix it, and JUST it?
i finished the game 2 days ago and i got the neutral ending completely by accident and i do think its picking what you feel is right is the best way to go.i just found it funny that in every smt game ive played i endend up on the neutral ending by accident. All in all i loved the game so much and ill definetly give nocutrne a try. Im also very impressed at how naturally im getting better at these games the more i play them.
In 2024, i still find myseld going back to SMT IV and IVA over V. The presentation of SMT IV make it like a Visual Novel type of Game mixed with a Reverse Iseki of exploring Tokyo mixed with Pokemon, Voice Acting, and Dark themes. This games setting and features welcomes to yo explore it and talk with all the Npcs to get a lore of the story.
SMT4, I feel, has one of the best identities for it's world. The game has such a unique feel to it as you play. The atmosphere is absolutely rich and it's easily my favorite aesthetical look for an atlus game. Unrelated, I think the grinding DLC is both good and bad. I think it'd bad that it's being charged for, but the concept is a good idea. Sometimes the worst parts of RPGs is grinding. And being able to have a way to quickly get around that is a good idea. Can it be abused? Absolutely. And I feel like that's absolutely fine because at the end of the day people will want to play games in different ways. But it should just be stock-standard in the games if they want to implement it. Like how SMT 5 has stated that it's going to have grinding dungeons planned as DLC. I feel like at this point it should just be implemented into the game proper and not charged, akin to how TMSdx handled it.
I agree, I think the added aspect of the rng adds to how tense the battles are. It really shakes up the combat with how much it can turn the tide of a battle.
I thought some unfair bull crap that leaves you feeling like SMT bent you over and had it's way with you was an integral part of the game. In all seriousness, the feeling like at any time you could be blindsided by some crap and killed adds to the tension of the game.
@@ressljs agreed. any random encounter in a new locale really can wipe your team if you're not careful. i definitely started saving compulsively because of that.
This was one of the first SMT games I played. I really loved it, and now I feel like playing it again. Thanks for covering this game. I hope people try it out before going into SMTV if they have a 3DS.
How would it compare to 3? I got 3 on the switch and am interested in playing Iv. I love Nocturne so far (I just got to the ritual fusion section in Ginza).
Soo my current plan is to catch up with Persona 3 and then start playing SMT but i wondered with wich to start. First I wanted to start with Nocturne but imma take your Word with this one
nocturne and 4 are both good places. just be sure if you know what ending you want, and make sure if you want a specific ending, know from the start. especially if you want neutral
Good call man i started with strange journey but not only was too much for me at the time and for some reasons i couldn't finish it, some time later i picked smt iv and im still hooked i even played a relatively good amount of the series
No disrespect to the guys above me but try to play as blind as possible. You'll have a much more authentic experience then trying to get from point A to B which might dull your experience.
@@eliasmanrique368 exact same happened to me. started with strange journey, dropped it, picked up IV a few months later, got hooked and played the other games. recently i came back to strange journey and im really enjoying it, might be one of my favorites. i feel strange journey is a game you shouldn't really play unless you have some smt experience under your belt
@@trashhCD My experience was the complete opposite. I've known about SMT for a while, but couldn't play due the lack of any console until recently. When i got my PS4 i bought P5R (Technically my "first" smt game) and when i bought a secondhand 3ds i went directy for Strange Journey. That game was kinda hard but mostly fair, it wasn't until the Gris that i found the mapping tedious, but aside of that i had a blast. SMT IV instead (I started playing it after finishing Strange Journey), felt WAY too hard or almost impossible when you're first starting, but after a couple floors the game went around and became somewhat easy, even the Minotaur wasn't that bad compared to the very beggining... SMT IV is great, but i do feel that the balance is a mess in some places. Gameplay-wise i felt that Strange Journey had more interesting battles and better dificulty spikes.
This was my first megaten game--I went in completely blind. The twist when the tower led to post apocalyptic Tokyo? Blew my mind out of the water. My love of this game's story has led me to the rest of an amazing series, so I look back on it with a lot of love. My only real grudge with the game is that it really sucks at telling you exactly where to go and found myself going in circles for hours trying to find how to make the story progress. Don't be afraid to use a guide when needed, if you plan to play this!
I remember when I was younger and just got my 3ds for the first time. I saw SMT IV and with no real context for what the game was like I got it. I remember being so confused. The story doesn’t pan out at all like a traditional RPG story, but that made it kinda exciting to me. Things that felt like they’d be more important weren’t, the game felt so esoteric. But I think being weird was what made it stick with me for so long
Hey dude, the video is really good but please don't overwork yourself. At the end you say that you stayed up until 4am putting the final touches, but please get some sleep the next time. I have no issue waiting a few days extra
Jonathan's position is more that "Even if what they're doing is awful, the alternative is worse" and his entire stance is fundamentally just calling out Walter's position. If torturing a child would ensure peace and prosperity for the realm, but allowing the child to go free would surely bring the realm to ruin, what would you do? Jonathan would begrudgingly torture the child. Walter would let the child go free, saying that a realm that exists on the torture of a child is not worth defending
I actually played SMT 4 without a guide and with the Choices i would make and i got the neutral route. Once i knew how small the window for that is i changed the sd card of my 3DS to have more space so i can play SMT4A but my perfect one in a thousand playthrough is still stored somewhere one a lone sd card.
I really enjoy this kind of videos not only for how much dedication they take, but also because they give me a new perspective on something that i either like or dislike. Btw if you haven't played it already i strongly recommend devil survivor (overcloked specifically) wich is in my opinion one of the smt game so far
One thing I noticed throughout the Law Route is that Law!Flynn/the Angels are laying the pressure on thick. We see Jonathan grab some Asura-Kai goon by the collar and openly claim that if they had their fellow, the Asura-Kai goon would have been killed for some callous remark. Jonathan's sudden extremism seems to me like the pressure is getting to him, and so he's falling back on his beliefs, something the angels pick up on and use to manipulate him, and that is something you can be in on as well.
the way i saw it was that jonathan could be having a severe reaction to the harvesting he witnessed at tayama's facilities which probably solidified the idea for him that the people of tokyo were 'filth' and like you said the pressure considering that you were supposed to be on a simple mission to kill one black samurai
Even though Apocalypse was my first Megaten game, I still liked playing SMT 4. Shit was amazing, aside from the mandatory side quests. The ost is fantastic along with how the press turn was utilized in this compared to Nocturne.
SMTIV's somehow "simplistic" plot is one of its greatest strength, and also why I am very skeptical about SMTV. SMTV, at least from the trailers we've seen thus far have introduced a story that potentially could become quite convoluted, which is the exact opposite of what I personally find very appealing in SMTIV. IV's story, different endings are told in a straightforward, but very polished way which is a great thing for a mainline game. I adore the overall plotline of the game so much it became literally one of my favourite stories in video games despite being fairly simple.
I loved the combat system of this game (Smirk included, it never really hurt my play experience.) Running a Dex build made this game so much more fun than if I went magic. But, there is just a variety of things that made me drop it. The main 2 being: 1. F"ck navigating Tokyo. I need to pull up a map on my computer just to navigate it and at multiple points I just could not progress the story because I didn't know how to get to a new area. 2. The alignment lock. I was en-route to be Neutral but I felt like I sided a bit more on the chaos side so I did a couple of fights in the arena and spared the combatants. And then I used both my saves before the first time you reach the reactor thinking that was alignment lock because people online would just say "you know when you reach it." ONLY TO FIND OUT YOU FORCEFULLY GET LIKE 20 LAW POINTS BETWEEN THEN AND ALIGNMENT LOCK! And then I was locked into Law route, the one that least matched my choices and I utterly despise YHVH/Yaweh. I just dropped the game when I got to alignment lock. I didn't want to restart just so I could get a good ending. It is a fun game but I just will never get the craving to replay it unless I closely follow a guide and just blast through bosses under-leveled to decrease my playtime.
I actually got smt 4 for Christmas maybe last year and i got to say, i really enjoyed it! However i dropped the game early through, this video motivates me to get back into it! Thank you.
I’m surprised you never touched upon the more, frustrating part when it comes to 100%ing the compendium: The Fiends Currently, IV has a 1/256 chance for the fiends to appear, meaning that it could take you 20 replays of the same game, and you _still_ haven’t gotten, at least, Pale Rider to appear, or at most, one of the more weaker additions to IV, Chemtrail I remember leaving the game as is when I finished my 6th run of it, with my items carried over and such, and the only fiend that ever appeared, was David, and that was because the game threw you a bone with him, since it was teaching you about the existence of such, or rather, slightly stronger demons. You have a quest that introduces the 4 riders at once, yes, but it’s completely rare, and time consuming to encounter them alone, just so you could have the permission to summon it using Mido, I remember my 14 year old self getting frustrated when I looked up the fiends’ appearance spots, and none of them granting me any appearances, in none of the 4 runs the game had, plus the additional 2 I did, just because I hold the game dear to my heart
This is one of the best games I've played. Final Fantasy 6/7/9, Chrono Trigger, The Legend of Dragoon, Persona 4, and Grandia are up there, but this one stands out. It was my introduction to actually having to use buffs and de-buffs. The start was slow for me, but the boss-battle music hooked me in and wow, the music when you reach Tokyo. The track almost brought a tear to my eye. (Edited, since I had some grammatical mistakes)
I played the game years ago without any guide and got neutral ending even though I wasn't expecting to get that route first in my first playthrough, same with SMT SJ REDUX, got the new neutral ending there and I love that ending tbh..
Same and with 4, bought SJR but didn't do it. I think I'll keep it to have some new SMT experience after doing apocalypse and V. I already posted a comment about that but geting neutral without a guide is such a great feeling but guessing what to do after the forest was nearly impossible for me.
While this game encourages you to fuse new demons frequently for whisper skills, I'd often fuse demons redundantly with the same skillsets to get those +1s. So fusing with whisper in mind ends up getting repetitive. Also, allowing you to completely overwrite a demon's innate skills in fusion makes the results feel samey. For example, if you already get all your favorite physical damage skills, fusing up a tier to your next demon? You'll end up with a mostly identical demon with a different JPEG. Often in SMT, powerful demons come with lots of innate skills, maybe as a balance factor. But here it doesn't matter. This game is LONG and it does very little to encourage longterm team variation.
Not to mention that if you're fusing demons with whispers in mind, you're most likely focusing more on powering *you* up instead of creating a balanced team that covers all weaknesses. This can screw over your team's builds when you have to reserve 1-2, maybe more slots to get those +1s when you could have dedicated them to the skills that harmonise better with the demon's stats. Also yeah, Cathedral of Shadows should have stayed as a location on the map because making it this easy to access only encourages mindless fusing more. Really, SMTIV is just a huge mess in terms of how it's designed.
@@Skallva My biggest gripe is the lack of defensive stats, and how the demons seem to only have about 4 different stat distributions. It's hard to explain why, but it results in less fun battle math.
@@cantrip7 That and the really low average MP. I got up till lvl 45-ish in my playthrough of SMTIV before I put it off and I was still consistently finding sub-100 MP demons. Couple that with Phys being back to costing MP and you're basically required to get Mana Walk asap so as not to make the combat a complete chore (and apps are also their own can of worms).
@@Skallva Oh yeah, physical skills costing MP sucked! I really enjoyed the dynamic of physical attackers putting strain on your healbots and pushing the attacker closer to death. Also sucks that I didn't find out until midway through the game that strength mostly contributes to normal attacks and dexterity contributes about 80% of the damage calculation for all physical skills. Like... why?
@@cantrip7 Wait, it does? I was putting most of my points in Str thinking it's the Phys-oriented stat (the build I'm going for) while Dex is mainly for guns. Whyyyyyyyyy
i love this game. also i prefer the fusion search, mainly because how it puts into account demons in the compendium when giving results, not just ones in ur current stock. This and also the fact you can fuse from the compendium, it allows players to use demons they usually wouldnt think of using. also the search lets you find the exact demons you need.
My second game of the MegaTen series after Devil Survivor Overclocked, and am now near the end of my NG+. Have to say, the music, ambiance, story and characters hold up perfectly, but the never ending assault of demons, not letting you breath the moment you step foot in naraku or tokyo, it forces you into grinding and makes everystep you want to make so much longer than it needs to be. Still a great game though.
Smt 4 Apocalypse is not a direct sequel lol. It's a alternative route/side story. It's about: "What if King Aquilla also gets reincarnated/Nanashi accepts Dagda's deal."
I managed to get the neutral ending in my first playthrough ACCIDENTALLY. As far as I know, challenge quests also affect your alignment because I was going for chaos and somehow ended up neutral
This was my first Megaten Game. I know we've all seen Tokyo at the bottom of Naraku, but on my first playthough, that blew my mind and got me hooked on this games story, lore and world. I'm writing this As I'm Playing SMT V. One think I love about IV that Nocturne and SMT V don't quite have is a heavy Cyberpunk influence. That to me just add so much charm to the world and really hammers down the post apocalyptic setting as well as being a good callback to SMT1 and 2.
Another problem with it being a 3DS exclusive is that it's a 3DS exclusive ATLUS game! Meaning second-hand prices are f@*king ridiculous!! And this isn't the only game with this problem, ESPECIALLY for the DS-era titles. There's a reason why R4 flashcards exist. Speaking of R4 flashcards, that's how I experienced my first SMT game, Strange Journey. Pretty good game, screw Sector Eridanus.
I would love an Apocalypse review, because it's a lovely game. Not sure if you'll care for the story because that seems to be everyone's gripe, but it has the best gameplay in the series in my humble opinionn.
God when I saw then black samurai and it was the demonica armor from strange journey I totally lost my mind Strange journey was the first SMT game.i played before 4 so it was such a great callback to me.
I really loved SMTIV, the game has its flaws but the soundtrack and general addictive gameplay loop of constant fusion and forward progress makes it really easy to sink a lot of time into. Apocalypse was also excellent, I really didn't mind the Anime that much, the gameplay was excellent.
Shin Megami Tensei 4 was my first SMT game. I got the Neutral route my first playthrough, played it years later forgetting most of the game and got it again. Kinda proud of that.
I never had a 3ds and totally missed out on SMT4 back in the day but am playing it for the first time now, and DAMN this game rules hard! quickly becoming a contender for one of my favorite SMT games and I daresay maybe even had the best OST out of the entire series (high praise indeed!)
25:00 Yoooo that's crazy. I got the Neutral ending first time and I wasn't even going for it. I think somewhere along the way I must of balanced out, but I was gung ho for Walter cause he was the coolest. Going through the game again and this time I'm making sure to pick the chaos options.
Great Video! This was my first Megami/Persona aligned game and I...haven't been hooked but I liked whatever I played. Currently playing Nocturne for the Switch and it's a great game!
Yknow I love how both endings in this game are genocide. In the law ending, you genocide Tokyo. In the chaos ending, you genocide mikado (albeit unintentionally, they’re just too weak). The main theme of the game is that law and chaos ultimately lead to the same outcome. A lawful society will yearn for chaos and freedom, while a chaotic one will yearn for law and order. I suppose if I had to pick an ending I’d pick chaos since at least it’s based on strength, and not some arbitrary “unclean” nonsense like the law ending.
First SMT and wow what a [strange journey] it’s been. i can’t help but feel nostalgic already even tho i only have lucifer’s palace left before I finish. there are definitely some annoyances that are inescapable , but overall not much to deter my feelings from it. looking forward to apocalypse soon :)
The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/namscompendium08211
Something you sorta missed about the Law route is that on Chaos, the "survival of the fittest, might is the right to rule" mentality inevitably ends up returning to the hierarchy and order of Law as a new demon King is crowned. That's what makes chaos feel so bittersweet--its an extremely transient system that inevitably folds back in on itself into Law. Apocalypse's ending reveals why this is the case.
SMT4 was my first non Persona SMT game, and and I genuinely didn't know about the whole post apocalyptic setting, I just thought it was the game with cool samurai and some futuristic gadgets, so imagine my surprise when I went to Tokyo the first time
Mine too!
@Mateus Miranda Pereira Sabe, eu tive um pressentimento que você estaria aqui
@Mateus Miranda Pereira Sla, só tive mesmo
Same! This game got me invested in the rest of the SMT series
Same! Tokyo was a jaw dropper
This game really turned the "seemingly defeated anime hero *smirks* to activate his super move" into a mechanic 🤣
I remember being on vacation, 17 years old, being bored because there was not wifi, I walked to the nearest Gamestop and 2 games caught my attention, "Shin Megami Tensei 4" and "Bravely Default", bought both and it was a REALLY good decision :3
That sounds so nostalgic and ya great choices for 2 games
Glad you got bravely default. I still have yet to try even one SMT game even though I want to start with persona first but after hacking my 3ds and having pretty much all of Nintendo library in one console I want to try this and apocalypse out
Two classics!
Omg I got those same two games on my 16th birthday 🤭
@@ryanadams0922 how
The interesting thing about this game's story is how it was part of a grander narrative written by Kazuma Kaneko. There's a lot that goes unsaid in this game, most relevant to the story is the fact that Flynn, Jonathan and Walter are all reincarnations of Counter Demon Force members (Jonathan being a reincarnation of Kiyoharu, and Walter being a reincarnation of Kenji), which allows them to become Samurai, as the gauntlet chooses those with similarities to previous wielders. Additionally, blasted and infernal tokyo are meant to represnt what would have happened if the previous Flynn had sided with Kenji or Kiyoharu.
Source?
@@DengueBurger the game itself. when the whites show you those possible futures, is what if the original flynn didn't fuse with masakado. the whites also call flynn the fifth son through out the game, meaning he has reincarnated multiple times. also, apocalypse has a lot of lore that helps and supports what OP said.
There’s also a manuscript of Koneko’s original plot you can find with some Googling
@@DengueBurger in case of Flynn he pulled out Masakado's katana and named masakado without being told or knowing anything
@@kikellanosdelagarza so my theory that blasted Tokyo is the future of law ending while infernal Tokyo is Future of chaos ending is real?
If yes i also have a theory that d'aat from Smt V is actually Blasted Tokyo and the entire world
I think Walter and Jonathan are interesting in that Walter ends up supporting the most classist system, one based on strength and social darwinism, with Flynn apparently rising to become king in the chaos ending. Jonathan meanwhile is from the upper crust, but the angels force equality and abolish the caste system, driving away the king.
And then Flynn proceeds to kill everyone in tokyo he helped before, which is what got him his law alignment.
Great music and good gameplay, the safest place to start for anyone remotely interested in the franchise.
(I posted this in a reply just now, but I figured it was important enough to make its own post, so apologies for the double post)
The issue with getting the Neutral ending is largely due to math. The game tracks your alignment on a scale of -100 to +100, and whenever you make an alignment influencing dialog choice, the game will add or subtract from your alignment score (though sometimes the game will just do it without giving you a choice, such as when you have to rescue the VIPs).
If your score is at or below -8, you're Chaos aligned.
If your score is at or above +8, you're Law aligned.
If your score falls between -8 and +8, you're Neutral.
For the most part the system works fine since most alignment shifts are either +/- 1 or 5. However, there are 3 points in the game where the player has the choice between getting +10 or -10 to their alignment. One is choosing between siding with Jonathon or Walter about what to do with Lilith. One is optional, where you can speak to a woman in Ikebukuro and say you're a human (+10) or a demon (-10).
Both of those are fine, and don't usually cause major issues. The last one is where the problem lies, and it's just before the alignment lock. Assuming you don't go for the White/Nihilism ending (in which case Alignment is pointless to you), you'll be asked whether you want to preserve the status quo (+10) or destroy it (-10). Do note that there is no option to get past this point without choosing one of these. *Immediately* after you answer, your alignment is locked in and you begin your alignment's endgame.
You might have seen the issue. If not, here's an example.
Say I wanted to specifically go for the Neutral ending. So for the entire playthrough I alternate between Law and Chaos answers. Heck, I even did such a good job at it that I get to the final alignment choice with a score of 0 (though I don't know this). I choose not to go for the White/Nihilism ending, and then choose to preserve the status quo. After the fade in, I find out I'm on the Law path. No biggie, right? I'll just load my last save and pick to destroy the status quo. After the fade in, I'm on the Chaos path. Huh? How is that possible? If we look at the math, we can see what the problem is.
I start at 0 (Neutral), and then pick to preserve the status quo (+10): 0 + 10 = +10 (ie Law). If I choose to destroy the status quo (-10): 0 - 10 = -10 (Chaos). Even if my score was -1 or +1 going into this, it wouldn't change the outcome. Remember how I said that you can't progress past this without modifying your alignment score? Yeah.
(tl;dr) **You can be too Neutral to get the Neutral ending in SMT4**
The fuck means too neutral, oh you're too good, therefore return the world to nothing.
thank you tohru adachi! very cool and helpful comment to elaborate on the details of the game, keep being rad king
I followed a guide trying to get see all available endings on first play-trough followed with a ng+ and I still got stuck with a chaos without the option to change it with the final question, which means I was so into chaos that the ikebukuro and the status quo could not change me, so Im assuming there are a lot of undocumented choices (or at least undocumented at the time). It totally killed my interest in the continuing the game past my chaos ending.
@@AntonioCardenasT you did something wrong or maybe the guide was flawed as shit, I have used the guide that nam speak about in the video a year ago and I got the neutral aligment lock, dont give up yet and try again but always checking what you are doing. The coment of adoochi is useful but he forgets to say that you can choose not to speak with that lady which eliminate the +/-10 from the aligment score, in fact the guide itself says we should always avoid that interaction like the plague. Also we have to watch out for the side quests since some of them add to the aligment score. Is very annoying to rely so much on a guide to get this ending in particular but the thing is that this is the most complete experience that the game offers so getting it is somehow worth it. Sorry for the rant.😅
Stfu adachi we all know you're the one behind the murders.
The reveal of SMT4's setting is so goddamn brilliant. It's nothing particularly new for an SMT game, but the way that it's presented absolutely blew me away. Amazing game.
This is my favourite persona spin-off!
CLEARLY Persona knows what's up. P5 came out way before SMT V!
Typing that kinda hurts actually...
Holy shit the unfunny levels have gone through the roof
Thats not fucking funny at all
Incredibly not hilarious
You got the whole squad smirking bro
For me it felt like a soft remake of SMT 1.
But seeing how old 1 is, it’s understandable.
I mean all SMT games are pretty much soft remakes of Megami Tensei II (except if wich is a soft remake of Megami Tensei 1) so they all are pretty similar in plot (also Majin Tensei 1 and 2 now that I think about it).
@Fanjanhong * i love both the dungeons and combat. The dungeons only get frustrating in sector E onwards.
Although I would prefer the press turn system, I like demon co-op.
@Fanjanhong * SMT 1 was perfect for it's time. Obviously it is more primitive than the modern games, but it is perfectly serviceable, you are just not into classic WRPGs
Flynn = The Hero/Kazuya
Jonathan = Law Hero/Yuji
Walter = Chaos Hero/Takeshi
And Tayama is basically Ozawa
A lot of people are saying that IV, IVA and V are soft remakes of I, II and Nocturne (In that order)
That moment when you beat the Minotaur and Medusa and see that you're actually in modern Tokyo blew my fucking mind. It was my first SMT game and I didn't know what to expect, so I went in completely blind and not really expecting much. That, the Tokyo overworld music and the moments where you go to the alternate Tokyos will stay in my mind forever. I kinda wish SMT5 had so many memorable moments as 4. I feel like SMT4 in the gameplay style of 5 would be the best Megami Tensei game ever.
This is my personal favorite mainline game, I adore it so much. Everything about it is just perfection; the story, gameplay, characters, themes, and music. It may be a perfect starting point, but it will never get old or become worse with more games that you play. It is timeless, and I love this game so much.
heybale
I think it's my favorite game of all time. It's just so great.
@@ayustar83 Same
They need to remaster IV and add Apocalypse's smirk/hama/mudo rework. Maybe also make Neutral ending a bit easier to ensure you'll get if you're specifically going for it.
SMTIV turned me into a masochist like everyone else that likes this series.
This is a game that I can always talk/listen other people talking about it, whether it be in a positive or negative way. I deeply enjoy it in every way possible. The story, characters, gameplay, SOUNDTRACK, ambience... I just can't get enough of it. That doesn't mean I ignore all the flaws you mentioned, but the other aspects overshadow the cons for me. Traditional SMT formula brought to modern times, it truly reminds me of SMT I but on steroids because now we get a more fleshed storyline with the voice acting and expanded script.
Now smt 5 will become the nocturne the director first envision
@FuckOuttaHere you got me again🤩🤩
I always love the little drops of comedy you drop in your videos, since your voice is so calm and certain, those moments where you say something like "When humans take the red pill, they become so based that they turn into demons" completely throw me for a loop and make me chuckle out of surprise
Keep up the great work chief
Same, that got me good lol
You can avoid Minotaur boss fight being hard by getting into battles to change your human allie that joins you
Fancy seeing you here
I definitely just reset when I get the wrong ally. And I'll play through if it isn't compatible with their strength. But when you get an ally with their weakness, things tend to go a lot more smoothly!
So you're saying I have a choice to deliberately avoid "ILL END IT THUS" and getting the shit kicked out of me, to a certain degree?
@@dillonmalbrue4179 Yes
it's true but it would be better if it wasn't so roundabout
I don't think the smirk system is bad though, the ally one is however
Your issue with the Demon Search was not actually an issue when it was originally created in Devil Survivor. In that game there was a search function and the classic fusion method (selecting two demons manually).
Devil Survivor fusion is also some of the best in the series imo. It has a much more controlled demon list. Not much filler or waste. Not difficult to fill the compendium at all.
Though I pity anyone who tries to fill out 4's compendium just because of how much trash there is.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 the one frustrating thing about the megaten series as a whole is that you often see mechanics in one game that you wish were a franchise standard.
@@patrickloureiro1403 True! I wish SMT IV's app system were in Strange Journey because SJ's sucks
@@Fermin-hw5pd now think about how the press turn system was replaced by the demon co-op system.
Although I like it, its so limiting in the aligment aspect.
@@denkerbosu3551 It can be a bit broken though, but it's hard to get the whole team to be the same alignment sometimes, at least the press turn returned later
My 4 favorite Megaten games:
SMT IV, Persona 5, Digital Devil Saga 1 + 2
So happy to see u enjoy this masterpiece.
Thank you for the video.
SMT IV was my first mainline game and my favorite game in general. Initially, I thought this game would entirely play out in a fantasy setting. I remember my mind being blown when Flynn and co. went deeper in Naraku and discovered Tokyo underneath.
Just one word: Burroughs!. One of the best companions in videogame history. I really missed her in SMT IV Apocalypse
I did a replay of IV recently after playing the nocturne remaster (first replay of nocturne in a decade+) and have come to the conclusion that IV is kinda a better game overall. Or at least it's much more fun to replay and more engaging.
I was eager to keep playing all night vs sitting there with nocturne going "ugh I remember this dungeon it's a slog"
Still both excellent games
Definitely a contentious opinion. I think both just had very different attitudes going into their production. 4A for example is beloved for how much it improved upon stat spreads and skill choice, but is the first SMT story I genuinely hated. 3 stuck by a lot of the basics when it came to dungeon crawling even with the switch to 3D graphics, along with Strange Journey being painfully nostalgic in that area.
4 was an excellent revival of the series with not as much thought going into how combat would work while still having it be enjoyable and seemed to want to focus more on the story and your involvement in it. Aside from smarter dungeon design, it really does feel more akin to 1 & 2 in how your decisions influence the story slightly, but not hugely.
Truly. Nocturne is overrated; I love it but I'm not afraid to admit it.
i definetly prefer nocturne dungeons compared to pretty much going in a straight line in smt 4.I cant remember any place Ive been trough in smt 4 because all of them feel exactly the same.
I can't put down IV. It was the same when it played V, and all of the Persona games lol. I have Nocturne HD on the way but I'm disappointed it's not as good
I got the neutral ending in my first playthrough, and I played according to my beliefs, so I don't know how hard it is to get if you're actually going for it
The issue with getting the Neutral ending is largely due to math. The game tracks your alignment on a scale of -100 to +100, and whenever you make an alignment influencing dialog choice, the game will add or subtract from your alignment score (though sometimes the game will just do it without giving you a choice, such as when you have to rescue the VIPs).
If your score is at or below -8, you're Chaos aligned.
If your score is at or above +8, you're Law aligned.
If your score falls between -8 and +8, you're Neutral.
For the most part the system works fine since most alignment shifts are either +/- 1 or 5. However, there are 3 points in the game where the player has the choice between getting +10 or -10 to their alignment. One is choosing between siding with Jonathon or Walter about what to do with Lilith. One is optional, where you can speak to a woman in Ikebukuro and say you're a human (+10) or a demon (-10).
Both of those are fine, and don't usually cause major issues. The last one is where the problem lies, and it's just before the alignment lock. Assuming you don't go for the White/Nihilism ending (in which case Alignment is pointless to you), you'll be asked whether you want to preserve the status quo (+10) or destroy it (-10). Do note that there is no option to get past this point without choosing one of these. *Immediately* after you answer, your alignment is locked in and you begin your alignment's endgame.
You might have seen the issue. If not, here's an example.
Say I wanted to specifically go for the Neutral ending. So for the entire playthrough I alternate between Law and Chaos answers. Heck, I even did such a good job at it that I get to the final alignment choice with a score of 0 (though I don't know this). I choose not to go for the White/Nihilism ending, and then choose to preserve the status quo. After the fade in, I find out I'm on the Law path. No biggie, right? I'll just load my last save and pick to destroy the status quo. After the fade in, I'm on the Chaos path. Huh? How is that possible? If we look at the math, we can see what the problem is.
I start at 0 (Neutral), and then pick to preserve the status quo (+10): 0 + 10 = +10 (ie Law). If I choose to destroy the status quo (-10): 0 - 10 = -10 (Chaos). Even if my score was -1 or +1 going into this, it wouldn't change the outcome. Remember how I said that you can't progress past this without modifying your alignment score? Yeah.
(tl;dr) **You can be too Neutral to get the Neutral ending in SMT4**
My problem is after you activate the reactor the first time you basically get a sh"t ton of law points and have no opportunity to get more chaos points.
@@Adoochi I forgot about that! That's truly a dick move on the games part, but I think I aligned with Walter before, and did almost all of the side quests that also grant you points for those things, or so I suppose, because I remember the white told me I wanted one thing but went for another, and sent me with Stephen. But yeah, I see it now, but in the end that's how it went, so I guess I am a neutral kind of guy
Same here.I got neutral on first run.
i also somehow played completely blind and got the neutral ending, which i’m really glad about
SMT IV is the type of game you think you won't replay and then end up putting 300 hours into.
I'm currently doing a fresh start ng+ run going for the neutral ending. I absolutely adore this game, I can't wait to start Apocalypse after.
Most of those hours being spent restarting because you talked to the woman in ikebukuro and fucked up getting the neutral ending and only realised it when you see Jonathan in the white forest
This video inspired to try to finish the game :) Hope to see SMT IV apocalypse. Also really hope to see Tokyo Mirage Sessions as well!
I definitely want to talk about those games in the future! It just comes down to where I fit it into my upload schedule. Both are on the review list though
"If a human takes the red pill they become so based they turn into a demon"
What is really cool about the minotaur fight is that it is a reference to the first megami tensei game all the way back on the Famicom(NES). It was the first boss in the game, and after defeating it, you then realized the game is bigger than you first thought
My first mainline SMT, got it on a whim, thought I might give it a go. Ended up getting all 4 endings and playing all the other SMT games since :)
This is the game I started with and it's still my favorite in the series. This game's soundtrack never gets old. Glad that SMTV seems to be continuing with the same style. Great video as always
SMT IV was my fourth SMT and I think it is one of the best. It has a much better story than SMT 1 and SMT Nocturne and the fact that you can choose what skills your character and demons have put it above Strange Journey. Strange Journey still had a better story.
Strange Journey is stressful but had, subjectively, a better story and definitely better music. Now I wonder if it was because of the legendary music why the story felt so impactful.
Strange journey has like 5 good tracks mate, I like them but for me it can’t compete with the sheer breadth and rich atmosphere of 4.
@@cirkleobserver3217 I’m playing 4 twice now and I honestly didn’t realize it had soundtracks. Sounds like just ambience for the sake of it. Unless by “4” you meant Persona 4.
@@michaelwalker8250 Bro is playing Shin megoomi tengay 4 bruh.
I *really* like the White ending. It's a lot more somber, and the fact that there is no final boss in favour of just beating an inanimate object until it explodes really hit different. It gave such a unique feeling compared to the rest of the game that I can't help but love it.
Neutral path is super easy to get.
One. Don't do any side quests until you are in the alignment lock.
First choice at the top is to be selected when "choice" appears on the screen.
When you are about to meet Yuriko, go left on all three choices in that corridor.
Side with Jonathon when your team splits so go kill Lilith.
After that, continue to pick the top choice until the White ask if you are gonna peserve the status quo or destroy it. Choose destroy the order of things.
Boom. You're locked in neutral route. Then you can do all the side quests without worrying about getting alignment points that will throw you off.
I tested this method twice. Both times I wound up in the Neutral endgame.
Good video.
The hero we need, but not the one we deserve
I pretty much did the opposite of everything you said and got neutral blind
@@goodyute2178 well. That makes sense as well. Since it is all a point system anyways.
What about the woman at Ikebukuro that gives massive amounts of alignment to both sides?
Should I just ignore her?
@@komi-samabeliever7319 yes. For the love of god, don't talk to her. She gives you ten points either way which throws you off big time. Ignore that c*nt.
U get lost way to easily pain just pain
I think that the overworld map could've been better, I personally didn't have too much of an issue until I was doing all of the challenge requests.
@@NamsCompendium I did every single challenge quest as it appeared (unless I was too weak at the time) since I'm a completionist which resulted in me needing to use a guide for a lot of them just to figure out where to go. I think one solution to this (apart from a better map like you said) would be to allow for the overworld flight ability to be unlocked a lot earlier though, since by the time you do most of the quests might already be completed.
True story: I have crippling ocd and anxiety and my play time for this game was well over 200 hours. According to the end game stats, most of that time was spent in the fusion menu. That's not even counting the times I reloaded saves to redo demon fusions.
I have a problem
Let me tell you, I was obsessed with JRPG in my teens, and when I discovered SMT, I got insane over it. It was just the traditional turn based system that I liked, so I was in love. I played nocturne first (after Persona 3), and the game being so dark and lonely made me curious. I've never seen anything like that before, it was the opposite of the franchise I played before (FF).
So after Nocturne, I began to play all the games, from the 1st. I played all of them in order, and I had no expectations on IV, but I was surprised. In general I think I'm absolutely impartial about the franchise because of how much I was in love in my teens, but the IV has a lot in common with SMT I and II. Apocalypse is practically to IV what SMT II is to I. I was amazed, even the final boss is "the same".
I love IV because of how much it takes from the older releases and mix it up awesomely. And the funny thing about it is that SMTV, that I'm playing right now, is really like nocturne. Is almost like they are rereleasing all the games, strangely.
I remember hearing the neutral was pretty though to get, so imagine my shock when I tried to do chaos and accidently fell ass backwards into neutral instead. On one hand I'm annoyed because I wanted neutral to be my last playthrough, but on the other hand not gonna lie being so law aligned that me actively trying to be chaotic lead to me being neutral was really funny.
My first SMT game, and one of the best in my opinion. It's a bit jank with its combat, and the DLC is.....wanting at time, but it has an excellent story, fun demons to mess around with, and massive replayability between it's main routes (though getting the Neutral Ending is simultaneously difficult yet brilliantly designed without a guide). All in a great game!
Nah, getting the neutral ending is terrible design to be honest because rather than having a conviction for neutral, you constantly have to flip-flop between law and chaos and therefore Flynn looks more indecisive than anything else (and stumbles into the route by sheer luck). The one neutral choice you get at the very beginning gets you openly mocked by everyone else, your own AI included, and after that the game doesn't even give you the choice to maintain neutrality. Locking you out of the NPC that gauges alignment for a long stretch before the alignment lock only makes the problem worse.
@@segafreak2000 Fair enough criticism, mate! I just thought it brilliant in that it actually requires a person to be fairly neutral overall in their decisions (storywise, they're free to powergame and do exploits all they like), rather than go down a strictly defined and determined Neutral Route like with Chaos and Law. Still, if the old way of doing it was not broke, why DID they decide to fix it, and JUST it?
The combats fine…..
i finished the game 2 days ago and i got the neutral ending completely by accident and i do think its picking what you feel is right is the best way to go.i just found it funny that in every smt game ive played i endend up on the neutral ending by accident.
All in all i loved the game so much and ill definetly give nocutrne a try.
Im also very impressed at how naturally im getting better at these games the more i play them.
In 2024, i still find myseld going back to SMT IV and IVA over V. The presentation of SMT IV make it like a Visual Novel type of Game mixed with a Reverse Iseki of exploring Tokyo mixed with Pokemon, Voice Acting, and Dark themes. This games setting and features welcomes to yo explore it and talk with all the Npcs to get a lore of the story.
Great game, it did what a follow up should it improved upon Nocturnes already great battle system and had a better story with better characters
I started SMT4 a couple months ago and its already one of my favorite games of all time.
SMT4, I feel, has one of the best identities for it's world. The game has such a unique feel to it as you play. The atmosphere is absolutely rich and it's easily my favorite aesthetical look for an atlus game. Unrelated, I think the grinding DLC is both good and bad. I think it'd bad that it's being charged for, but the concept is a good idea. Sometimes the worst parts of RPGs is grinding. And being able to have a way to quickly get around that is a good idea. Can it be abused? Absolutely. And I feel like that's absolutely fine because at the end of the day people will want to play games in different ways. But it should just be stock-standard in the games if they want to implement it. Like how SMT 5 has stated that it's going to have grinding dungeons planned as DLC. I feel like at this point it should just be implemented into the game proper and not charged, akin to how TMSdx handled it.
I don't care what anyone says the smirk system was actually really good
I agree, I think the added aspect of the rng adds to how tense the battles are. It really shakes up the combat with how much it can turn the tide of a battle.
Yeah I didn't mind it either
Burroughs is awesome too
I thought some unfair bull crap that leaves you feeling like SMT bent you over and had it's way with you was an integral part of the game. In all seriousness, the feeling like at any time you could be blindsided by some crap and killed adds to the tension of the game.
@@ressljs agreed. any random encounter in a new locale really can wipe your team if you're not careful. i definitely started saving compulsively because of that.
This was one of the first SMT games I played. I really loved it, and now I feel like playing it again.
Thanks for covering this game. I hope people try it out before going into SMTV if they have a 3DS.
How would it compare to 3? I got 3 on the switch and am interested in playing Iv. I love Nocturne so far (I just got to the ritual fusion section in Ginza).
Soo my current plan is to catch up with Persona 3 and then start playing SMT but i wondered with wich to start. First I wanted to start with Nocturne but imma take your Word with this one
nocturne and 4 are both good places. just be sure if you know what ending you want, and make sure if you want a specific ending, know from the start. especially if you want neutral
Good call man i started with strange journey but not only was too much for me at the time and for some reasons i couldn't finish it, some time later i picked smt iv and im still hooked i even played a relatively good amount of the series
No disrespect to the guys above me but try to play as blind as possible. You'll have a much more authentic experience then trying to get from point A to B which might dull your experience.
@@eliasmanrique368 exact same happened to me. started with strange journey, dropped it, picked up IV a few months later, got hooked and played the other games.
recently i came back to strange journey and im really enjoying it, might be one of my favorites. i feel strange journey is a game you shouldn't really play unless you have some smt experience under your belt
@@trashhCD My experience was the complete opposite. I've known about SMT for a while, but couldn't play due the lack of any console until recently.
When i got my PS4 i bought P5R (Technically my "first" smt game) and when i bought a secondhand 3ds i went directy for Strange Journey.
That game was kinda hard but mostly fair, it wasn't until the Gris that i found the mapping tedious, but aside of that i had a blast. SMT IV instead (I started playing it after finishing Strange Journey), felt WAY too hard or almost impossible when you're first starting, but after a couple floors the game went around and became somewhat easy, even the Minotaur wasn't that bad compared to the very beggining... SMT IV is great, but i do feel that the balance is a mess in some places. Gameplay-wise i felt that Strange Journey had more interesting battles and better dificulty spikes.
This was my first megaten game--I went in completely blind. The twist when the tower led to post apocalyptic Tokyo? Blew my mind out of the water. My love of this game's story has led me to the rest of an amazing series, so I look back on it with a lot of love. My only real grudge with the game is that it really sucks at telling you exactly where to go and found myself going in circles for hours trying to find how to make the story progress. Don't be afraid to use a guide when needed, if you plan to play this!
I agree with this smt 4 is pure kino
I remember when I was younger and just got my 3ds for the first time. I saw SMT IV and with no real context for what the game was like I got it. I remember being so confused. The story doesn’t pan out at all like a traditional RPG story, but that made it kinda exciting to me. Things that felt like they’d be more important weren’t, the game felt so esoteric. But I think being weird was what made it stick with me for so long
Hey dude, the video is really good but please don't overwork yourself. At the end you say that you stayed up until 4am putting the final touches, but please get some sleep the next time. I have no issue waiting a few days extra
Jonathan's position is more that "Even if what they're doing is awful, the alternative is worse" and his entire stance is fundamentally just calling out Walter's position. If torturing a child would ensure peace and prosperity for the realm, but allowing the child to go free would surely bring the realm to ruin, what would you do? Jonathan would begrudgingly torture the child. Walter would let the child go free, saying that a realm that exists on the torture of a child is not worth defending
I actually played SMT 4 without a guide and with the Choices i would make and i got the neutral route. Once i knew how small the window for that is i changed the sd card of my 3DS to have more space so i can play SMT4A but my perfect one in a thousand playthrough is still stored somewhere one a lone sd card.
Can't wait for the Apocalypse video that game is easily my favorite of the 2
Same. Apocalypse fixes so many issues with IV. ❤️ And IV was already a great game.
I was able to get the neutral ending without knowing about the alignment stats. Dope.
I really enjoy this kind of videos not only for how much dedication they take, but also because they give me a new perspective on something that i either like or dislike. Btw if you haven't played it already i strongly recommend devil survivor (overcloked specifically) wich is in my opinion one of the smt game so far
Walter : "Behold my demons" - proceeds to use Agi
Minotaur : "haha you fool"
One thing I noticed throughout the Law Route is that Law!Flynn/the Angels are laying the pressure on thick.
We see Jonathan grab some Asura-Kai goon by the collar and openly claim that if they had their fellow, the Asura-Kai goon would have been killed for some callous remark.
Jonathan's sudden extremism seems to me like the pressure is getting to him, and so he's falling back on his beliefs, something the angels pick up on and use to manipulate him, and that is something you can be in on as well.
the way i saw it was that jonathan could be having a severe reaction to the harvesting he witnessed at tayama's facilities which probably solidified the idea for him that the people of tokyo were 'filth' and like you said the pressure considering that you were supposed to be on a simple mission to kill one black samurai
The neutral ending can go to hell though. Thats some GC era endgame padding at its worst
I had already done most all the side quests, because I'm like that, so I didn't see it as that much padding, tbh.
GameCube era? Xd
Even though Apocalypse was my first Megaten game, I still liked playing SMT 4. Shit was amazing, aside from the mandatory side quests.
The ost is fantastic along with how the press turn was utilized in this compared to Nocturne.
The first time I played the game I played the neutral route. and it really was the option I wanted to take and I didn't even know it existed.
SMTIV's somehow "simplistic" plot is one of its greatest strength, and also why I am very skeptical about SMTV. SMTV, at least from the trailers we've seen thus far have introduced a story that potentially could become quite convoluted, which is the exact opposite of what I personally find very appealing in SMTIV. IV's story, different endings are told in a straightforward, but very polished way which is a great thing for a mainline game. I adore the overall plotline of the game so much it became literally one of my favourite stories in video games despite being fairly simple.
this aged badly i guess
An SMTIV video in my recommended? In this day and age? That's a sub from me, keep doing what you do friend
I enjoyed it so much, I immediately played through it again a second time to grind for more demons. It is a very fun and well made game.
I loved the combat system of this game (Smirk included, it never really hurt my play experience.) Running a Dex build made this game so much more fun than if I went magic. But, there is just a variety of things that made me drop it. The main 2 being:
1. F"ck navigating Tokyo. I need to pull up a map on my computer just to navigate it and at multiple points I just could not progress the story because I didn't know how to get to a new area.
2. The alignment lock. I was en-route to be Neutral but I felt like I sided a bit more on the chaos side so I did a couple of fights in the arena and spared the combatants. And then I used both my saves before the first time you reach the reactor thinking that was alignment lock because people online would just say "you know when you reach it." ONLY TO FIND OUT YOU FORCEFULLY GET LIKE 20 LAW POINTS BETWEEN THEN AND ALIGNMENT LOCK! And then I was locked into Law route, the one that least matched my choices and I utterly despise YHVH/Yaweh. I just dropped the game when I got to alignment lock. I didn't want to restart just so I could get a good ending.
It is a fun game but I just will never get the craving to replay it unless I closely follow a guide and just blast through bosses under-leveled to decrease my playtime.
I actually got smt 4 for Christmas maybe last year and i got to say, i really enjoyed it! However i dropped the game early through, this video motivates me to get back into it! Thank you.
I’m surprised you never touched upon the more, frustrating part when it comes to 100%ing the compendium: The Fiends
Currently, IV has a 1/256 chance for the fiends to appear, meaning that it could take you 20 replays of the same game, and you _still_ haven’t gotten, at least, Pale Rider to appear, or at most, one of the more weaker additions to IV, Chemtrail
I remember leaving the game as is when I finished my 6th run of it, with my items carried over and such, and the only fiend that ever appeared, was David, and that was because the game threw you a bone with him, since it was teaching you about the existence of such, or rather, slightly stronger demons. You have a quest that introduces the 4 riders at once, yes, but it’s completely rare, and time consuming to encounter them alone, just so you could have the permission to summon it using Mido, I remember my 14 year old self getting frustrated when I looked up the fiends’ appearance spots, and none of them granting me any appearances, in none of the 4 runs the game had, plus the additional 2 I did, just because I hold the game dear to my heart
Awesome video as always! Just a thought, I would love to see you do a video on Devil Survivor and/or Devil Survivor 2
This is one of the best games I've played. Final Fantasy 6/7/9, Chrono Trigger, The Legend of Dragoon, Persona 4, and Grandia are up there, but this one stands out. It was my introduction to actually having to use buffs and de-buffs. The start was slow for me, but the boss-battle music hooked me in and wow, the music when you reach Tokyo. The track almost brought a tear to my eye. (Edited, since I had some grammatical mistakes)
At the same time, I still feel like I never really knew what happened in this game. The storyline was so confusing, but I loved it.
Why are your videos so good
(spoilers)
The white ending can be interpreted as an analogy for suicide. Only worse.
I played the game years ago without any guide and got neutral ending even though I wasn't expecting to get that route first in my first playthrough, same with SMT SJ REDUX, got the new neutral ending there and I love that ending tbh..
Same and with 4, bought SJR but didn't do it. I think I'll keep it to have some new SMT experience after doing apocalypse and V. I already posted a comment about that but geting neutral without a guide is such a great feeling but guessing what to do after the forest was nearly impossible for me.
While this game encourages you to fuse new demons frequently for whisper skills, I'd often fuse demons redundantly with the same skillsets to get those +1s. So fusing with whisper in mind ends up getting repetitive.
Also, allowing you to completely overwrite a demon's innate skills in fusion makes the results feel samey. For example, if you already get all your favorite physical damage skills, fusing up a tier to your next demon? You'll end up with a mostly identical demon with a different JPEG. Often in SMT, powerful demons come with lots of innate skills, maybe as a balance factor. But here it doesn't matter. This game is LONG and it does very little to encourage longterm team variation.
Not to mention that if you're fusing demons with whispers in mind, you're most likely focusing more on powering *you* up instead of creating a balanced team that covers all weaknesses. This can screw over your team's builds when you have to reserve 1-2, maybe more slots to get those +1s when you could have dedicated them to the skills that harmonise better with the demon's stats.
Also yeah, Cathedral of Shadows should have stayed as a location on the map because making it this easy to access only encourages mindless fusing more.
Really, SMTIV is just a huge mess in terms of how it's designed.
@@Skallva My biggest gripe is the lack of defensive stats, and how the demons seem to only have about 4 different stat distributions. It's hard to explain why, but it results in less fun battle math.
@@cantrip7 That and the really low average MP. I got up till lvl 45-ish in my playthrough of SMTIV before I put it off and I was still consistently finding sub-100 MP demons. Couple that with Phys being back to costing MP and you're basically required to get Mana Walk asap so as not to make the combat a complete chore (and apps are also their own can of worms).
@@Skallva Oh yeah, physical skills costing MP sucked! I really enjoyed the dynamic of physical attackers putting strain on your healbots and pushing the attacker closer to death.
Also sucks that I didn't find out until midway through the game that strength mostly contributes to normal attacks and dexterity contributes about 80% of the damage calculation for all physical skills. Like... why?
@@cantrip7 Wait, it does? I was putting most of my points in Str thinking it's the Phys-oriented stat (the build I'm going for) while Dex is mainly for guns.
Whyyyyyyyyy
i love this game. also i prefer the fusion search, mainly because how it puts into account demons in the compendium when giving results, not just ones in ur current stock. This and also the fact you can fuse from the compendium, it allows players to use demons they usually wouldnt think of using. also the search lets you find the exact demons you need.
I love your content. I'll have to skip out on the KH content, but I'll still watch any SMT content for sure.
Estoma Sword got reworked in Apocalypse.
Edit: nvm, I got to the part where you brought up Apocalypse.
I just realized that all the lakes around Mikado are the filled-up craters left by the nuclear missiles.
My second game of the MegaTen series after Devil Survivor Overclocked, and am now near the end of my NG+. Have to say, the music, ambiance, story and characters hold up perfectly, but the never ending assault of demons, not letting you breath the moment you step foot in naraku or tokyo, it forces you into grinding and makes everystep you want to make so much longer than it needs to be. Still a great game though.
Smt 4 Apocalypse is not a direct sequel lol. It's a alternative route/side story. It's about: "What if King Aquilla also gets reincarnated/Nanashi accepts Dagda's deal."
I managed to get the neutral ending in my first playthrough ACCIDENTALLY. As far as I know, challenge quests also affect your alignment because I was going for chaos and somehow ended up neutral
This was my first MegaTen game ever.
I have been playing ever since.
As a Pokemon Mainliner, this hooked me good.
This was my first Megaten Game. I know we've all seen Tokyo at the bottom of Naraku, but on my first playthough, that blew my mind and got me hooked on this games story, lore and world.
I'm writing this As I'm Playing SMT V. One think I love about IV that Nocturne and SMT V don't quite have is a heavy Cyberpunk influence. That to me just add so much charm to the world and really hammers down the post apocalyptic setting as well as being a good callback to SMT1 and 2.
Another problem with it being a 3DS exclusive is that it's a 3DS exclusive ATLUS game! Meaning second-hand prices are f@*king ridiculous!! And this isn't the only game with this problem, ESPECIALLY for the DS-era titles. There's a reason why R4 flashcards exist.
Speaking of R4 flashcards, that's how I experienced my first SMT game, Strange Journey. Pretty good game, screw Sector Eridanus.
Getting the 3 formas for Jack takes for damn ever
its on sale like 90% of the time like most atlus games
@@awewi7309 Don't know where you get sales from, from the e shop?
@@Fermin-hw5pd yeah, you can pick up most atlus 3ds games for around 10 bucks pretty regularly during eShop sales
Couldn't you just buy the digital version? Actually why don't you just emulate it using Citra?
This video was absolutely amazing
I would love an Apocalypse review, because it's a lovely game. Not sure if you'll care for the story because that seems to be everyone's gripe, but it has the best gameplay in the series in my humble opinionn.
It's the best SMT mainline has ever played, that's something many seem to agree on, even myself.
“”Critical Hit! Critical hit! Critical hit! Critical hit! That means I can attack 8 times!” Fuck this shit. This ain’t Yu-Gi-Oh.” -Sirlionhart
God when I saw then black samurai and it was the demonica armor from strange journey I totally lost my mind
Strange journey was the first SMT game.i played before 4 so it was such a great callback to me.
I really loved SMTIV, the game has its flaws but the soundtrack and general addictive gameplay loop of constant fusion and forward progress makes it really easy to sink a lot of time into. Apocalypse was also excellent, I really didn't mind the Anime that much, the gameplay was excellent.
Shin Megami Tensei 4 was my first SMT game. I got the Neutral route my first playthrough, played it years later forgetting most of the game and got it again. Kinda proud of that.
I played this game on an emulator for 3ds and I loved it. It’s my favorite SMT game by far.
I got pretty lucky with the Alignment split on my first playthrough. I saved, got Neutral, chose my other option, and got Law.
I never had a 3ds and totally missed out on SMT4 back in the day but am playing it for the first time now, and DAMN this game rules hard! quickly becoming a contender for one of my favorite SMT games and I daresay maybe even had the best OST out of the entire series (high praise indeed!)
The White Ending doesn't even really end anything either, you can just start a new game+ after and it's just another cycle.
25:00
Yoooo that's crazy. I got the Neutral ending first time and I wasn't even going for it. I think somewhere along the way I must of balanced out, but I was gung ho for Walter cause he was the coolest. Going through the game again and this time I'm making sure to pick the chaos options.
Great Video! This was my first Megami/Persona aligned game and I...haven't been hooked but I liked whatever I played. Currently playing Nocturne for the Switch and it's a great game!
Yknow I love how both endings in this game are genocide.
In the law ending, you genocide Tokyo.
In the chaos ending, you genocide mikado (albeit unintentionally, they’re just too weak).
The main theme of the game is that law and chaos ultimately lead to the same outcome. A lawful society will yearn for chaos and freedom, while a chaotic one will yearn for law and order.
I suppose if I had to pick an ending I’d pick chaos since at least it’s based on strength, and not some arbitrary “unclean” nonsense like the law ending.
me having to google locations wasnt fun but its still one of my fave megaten games i love this and 4A
Best world-building of any SMT/spinoff I’ve played, hands down.
First SMT and wow what a [strange journey] it’s been. i can’t help but feel nostalgic already even tho i only have lucifer’s palace left before I finish. there are definitely some annoyances that are inescapable , but overall not much to deter my feelings from it. looking forward to apocalypse soon :)
Yo let’s go new nam video!!!!!!!!
loved this video and the one you did on SMTIV:A. Would love to see you cover Strange Journey and SMTV once it's out!