I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
@@JeremiahMartin-s3g Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story. One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
I love how Galaxy class ships in DS9 are so badass. They lead the charge and take on the Dominion's biggest and baddest ships. In TNG, the Enterprise takes one hit and Worf gets injured and the starboard power coupling gets damaged.
These are War refit Galaxies. Either science labs are ripped out, or not even built, and are replaced with stronger shields, larger torpedo magazines, more phaser systems or barracks for troops.
And that was all plot shit anyways, sometimes the enterprise was stupidly tanky. Sometimes it could square off with a Borg cube 1v1 for a few scenes, that's probably the most impressive showing of any federation vessel. But yea, I think alot of emergency shield breakthroughs came out of starfleet's science division based on the runabouts data from the Odyssy fight. For starfleet's shields to go from ineffective to effective against those weapons, and then the Breen's, late Dominion war federation ships were probably like 3 times tankier than they were at Wolf 359 in shields alone.
to be fair this is during an actual war so many systems on these ships were refit to account for that. During TNG the Enterprise wasnt a warship until the Enterprise E that is... that things a beast.
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
@@jjimlee7009Also a shame that the series never got an HD release. I know it'd cost a fortune to do the whole series, but couldn't they have at least done some of the big battle episodes in HD for an anniversary celebration?
@@ManabiLT Yeah. I can hope though someday. At least I can watch on Paramount+ the series in full whenever I want. Never get tired of watching the Sisko kick ass.
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed. And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
@@deaddropsd1972 There Maranda's, cover the holes with duct tape, slap on replicated engines and send them back out with a -B at the end of the registry.
I prefer quiet scientific space trips. Fighting isn't ever good for anybody. People die, property gets destroyed, bad things happen all around. What's wrong with an exploratory journey on an unexplored planet? Not bloody enough for you? People shouldn't be so hateful they have to kill each other.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
@@rrwholloway Right. Unless you have clearly superior speed and momentum, trying to go around a large defensive force just means you'll get hit in the flanks or rear at a decidedly inconvenient time, especially in space where there's really no terrain to hinder either side. In this case, even if the Starfleet force somehow got around the Dominion one, they'd ultimately be trapped between their pursuers and the upgraded DS9 itself, which we've established as pretty damned capable of holding off an entire fleet for some time.
@@Wolfen443 And in book form read Jack Campbell's _The Lost Fleet_ series and its sequels. The author goes into great detail about the three dimensional battles in space, including accounting for the effects of time dilation (battles take place at no more than .2 combined speed of light, anything faster and the computer systems can't account for the uncertainty and score hits) and the vastness of space. (It's commented on often how weird it feels even for career fleet officers to have to wait _days_ for the actual battle after spotting the enemy fleet entering a star system, or when entering a star system themselves.) Honestly, it's hard for me to visualize it all, but I really appreciate him putting in the details.
This is something I liked about SS9 for sure. Being a boat nerd, I loved that they continued the TNG tradition of having The Mighty Hood pop up at times, but made it more badass. In TNG she was out in thr sticks, doing imoirtant offscreen work for the most part, and turned up around Enterprised periodically. In DS9 she became a hero ship. Not because she was crewed by the protagonists, but because she did nighty things. Unlike her unhappy predecessor she sailed on favourable winds, at the very spearpoint of the Federation war effort.
3:00 the Defiant surrounded by the Jem'Hadar, yet still shooting and weaving her way through the enemy is one of the most iconic shots of the entire series, in my opinion.
I feel like it's an effective design, honestly, kind of defiant'ish. Couldn't they weld some plating onto all this stuff for this war? The defiant was so tanky even when the shields were down. Could they not replicate just big titanium plates with their industrial replicators? And fuck windows, it's 2400, big 4k screens are cheap now, just make the wallpaper in every room be some 8k screen and run it all off cameras. The idea of windows is absurd now that I think about it, with how cheap cameras and displays are - even now.
"They outnumber us two to one..." "There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out." "But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!" "We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Like the mindset of the writers of The Last Jedi, how many Imperial Destroyers and Alliance fleet ships do you in the screen?. Fill it up with more CGI copies more ridiculous than the LOTR battles.
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
@@willt3223 No those are piloted ships. They adopted the same strategy as in ww2 that swarms of small craft could penetrate a large ships defenses and take it out with minimal cost of lives and material. Each starship is a massive expenditure in men and materials but each fighter is just a fraction of a fraction of the same cost.
imagine if instead of a galaxy starship, they had the number of attack wings as crew. so 1 galaxy = 1500 crew? that's 1500 attack wings that can take the place of 1 galaxy ship. i rather have that.
The Charge of the Light Brigade Alfred, Lord Tennyson 1809 -1892 Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns!" he said: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade!" Was there a man dismay’d? Not tho’ the soldier knew Some one had blunder’d: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred. Flash’d all their sabres bare, Flash’d as they turn’d in air Sabring the gunners there, Charging an army, while All the world wonder’d: Plunged in the battery-smoke Right thro’ the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel’d from the sabre-stroke Shatter’d and sunder’d. Then they rode back, but not Not the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro’ the jaws of Death, Back from the mouth of Hell, All that was left of them, Left of six hundred. When can their glory fade? O the wild charge they made! All the world wonder’d. Honor the charge they made! Honor the Light Brigade, Noble six hundred!
i only noticed this years after viewing but when the dominion battleship blows up, it was because it shot up the other bird of prey and the tumbling wreck crashed along the entire length of the battleship.
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
Even as a teen, I noticed the disparity: The Defiant could seemingly take tons of hits and still keep going, but other ships would explode with just one or two hits and that huge Dominion ship at the end was destroyed with just a few shots. Plot armor is really the best kind.
Better not to think about it. Also not sure they described why they had to face the fleet head on vs. Warp around it.. space is 3 dimensional its not like DS9 is in the briar patch with only 1 safe entrance. great sequences though
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle. When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up? Never could get over this.
BOP's can go into battle with a skeleton crew of 6 not including combat solders can go up to 30. the Jem'Hadar ship requires a flight crew of 12 for operational capacity not including combat soldiers and can go up to 50. according to memory alfa.
I remember watching this as a kid. I jumped out of my seat when I saw that green disruptor fire coming in and knew the Klingon had arrived to save the day
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
I was attached to the Light Dragoons from 2003-2005. They/we would commemorate the charge of the Light Brigade every year. Damn they knew how to party!
I remember the week lead up for this or however long it was and it being such an amazing thing. Never before had we seen flea battles like this. Well yes I know that they had to cut out shields in order to make the fights actually go out of proper pace, still this was one of the most amazing things at the time. Sacrifice of angels indeed
Thinking of it now, even on Earth combat no one employs vessels or aircraft or units or even soldiers shoulder to shoulder like this anymore. In space combat, every ship would be quite far away from each other and beyond visual range even from the enemy. All done by long range sensors and weaponry, even today outside of infantry fighting. This is just cinematic fantasy.
"Dominion ships! Staggered line! Ship Master, they outnumber us 2 to 1!" Sisco: "Then it is an even fight! All cruisers- fire at will! BURN their mongrel hides!"
The Biggest Advantage that StarFleet Had was that all the Writers homeworld was Earth, The Domain never Standed a Chance, oh well it's Still a Great Show
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe . It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
I always loved this scene. Back in the old days of Star Trek Online when they allowed you to choose actual cannon ship names to command I chose the Miranda class Majestic and flew her for many years and seeing her blow up on screen is glorious
This is one of the rare cases where early CGI models actually look pretty good even by today's standards. They did a great job on this show, more so than they did on Voyager.
I loved the fact star trek finally got brave enough to do something like this. There's always errors on first attempt. However cudos for doing it. Those saying in comments that they could go around the dominion fleet once they had them on scanner. That probably wouldn't work. Dominion could send ships to intercept. Since starfleet was outnumbered better to have fleet stick together. I agree with comments that admiral ross should have been in command of fleet. They had a 4 pip admiral command 40 ships to attack the borg cube. Looks like the writer watched to much Babylon 5 in the fleet to fleet battles. Starfleet ships are way more maneuverable. They need room. This mistake was done in all the large fleet battles. Sisko actually says that as the go through dominion fleet. Can't believe he was the only one to notice that in the fleet. There were alot of captains in the fleet that would have gotten court martialed after the fight. Sisko told everyone to go straight through. There were dozens of federation ships going across the dominion fleet and dozens even going backwards. Again it was a great moment for star trek shows. Why can't we go back to that?
They say 1254 Dominion ships and that they outnumber the Federation more than 2:1. Then they quote about the noble 600 from Tennyson. I never picked up there are 600 something Federation ships at the battle till now.
I love how during the show the cardassians went from being in command of dominion forces, to the exact opposite. They really played with fire and got burned.
The Cardassians had no other option, the Federation and Bajor controlled wormhole and their influence was growing and the Dominion was to attractive, it was financial and military very strong, their intelligence gathering capabilities and placement of agents in the highest positions was also a strong point. But what they forgot that the Dominions has no Allies only pawns on a chess board.
Afaik the peregrin only had low power phasers and micro photon torps. It's just a shuttle sized fighter after all but en mass their combined firepower can take down starships.
If they were using full sized photons they'd only be able to carry four before running out of ammo. That actually makes perfect sense given the type of historical naval ship they're an analogue for, but, yknow, scifi.
The only thing that makes even plausible is that the Dominion is using the same ship designs they had when the war started. Meanwhile, the Federation has been cranking out new ships with all their top shelf tech built in.
MY BOY AKIRA WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU!!!!!!! my favorite class of starship in all of trek. the akira is so underrated and underutilized its a beast of a starship. torpedo boat and beam boat such a monster of a ship probably the closest to a true warship before defiant and the sovereign class.
"The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport." - Robert Heinlein
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse... Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
This probably shouldn't have resulted in losing a ship, except knowing Klingons they probably routed all rear shield power to the weapons allowing the friendly fire from the rear to take out the whole ship with one hit.
Fortune favors the bold, but it doesn’t favor the stupid. When you are outnumbered, attack your enemy in detail and give yourself a strong local advantage like Caesar and Napoleon.
They didn't really show it to good effect but there were LOTS of fighters, each capable of firing at least several photon torpedoes. And for the sake of action they showed fighters exploding after a single hit, but in reality they could take a couple hits. The fighters were actually much more combat effective in terms of personnel and material expenditure than capital ships. You're not any safer in a galaxy class cruiser than you are in a fighter. You just feel more comfortable the last 30 seconds of your life. Thats why sisko ordered the fighters to focus on cardasians because they actually were hitting quite hard.
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
three dozen Akira class battlecruisers to add, would have punched through. 15 torp launchers and multi phaser arrays is formidable. One took down 3 warbirds.
I often wonder if the writers intended for this whole battle to reveal the absolute depth of Dukat's self-crippling ego. He baits in the Starfleet force with the intent to destroy it, but he doesn't have to win this battle at all. He only has to buy time for the minefield to come down, allow Dominion reinforcements through the wormhole, and guarantee victory. Instead, he's so intent on swinging his dick in front of Weyoun and the Founder that he employs a more aggressive strategy, allowing Sisko - the one being in all existence with enough clout to make the Prophets listen to him - to reach the wormhole and barter with his life to make the reinforcements disappear. Dukat was right: victory was in his grasp. But it wasn't the kind he wanted, so he threw it away. Am I reading too much into this, or is this an example of writing with fantastic subtext? None of the dialogue calls attention to it, so I honestly don't know.
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
The leaders in the Alpha quadrant all bickered and argued that they needed to come together to fight this war from the Dominion who came from the Gamma quadrant, to conquer. Some refused which made it 1:2 in favor of the Dominion
And people forget that a Galaxy Class could take on 5 Dominion fighters until the Dominion rammed them... I'd assume that these are upgraded. It doesn't mean the Federation Fleet lost that battle... they just got a bit behind.
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor. It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9. The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage. Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
If you are that close. Shields will be worned out extremely fast. Play Start Trek Online, or any ship battle with shield. 1 vs 1 it takes time to knock ti down. But if there's a line of ships, and you have a line of ships. You got phasers, cannons and torpedoes all over the place. If a group of ships target just your ship. You're done. It's a battle otf who has the most ships, who can dish out the most volleys, and finally who can take the most damage. If you're a small ship next to a Jem Hadar Battle Cruister, At full shield, one beam would knockout your shield and blow you up. Those ships have planetary size phasers/polaron emitters.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
I definitely will take this over the current Star Trek releases.
You should check out seasons 3 and 4 of babylon 5. They were out atyhesame time and competed for viewers...
Agreed!!
@@JeremiahMartin-s3g Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story.
One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
The part where the two Galaxy Class ships swooped in and obliterated the Galor Class ship was a freaking amazing start to the battle.
The Miranda class starship. Take punches to the face for The Federation since 2260.
The red shirts of starships
We used to refer to this scene as the Defiant having "Ablative Miranda-class Shields"
Reliant...... Captain Terrel
Yet boldly they rode, and well.
The Miranda class was where Janeway learned about "punching your way through" in command school. 😏
I love how Galaxy class ships in DS9 are so badass. They lead the charge and take on the Dominion's biggest and baddest ships. In TNG, the Enterprise takes one hit and Worf gets injured and the starboard power coupling gets damaged.
These are War refit Galaxies. Either science labs are ripped out, or not even built, and are replaced with stronger shields, larger torpedo magazines, more phaser systems or barracks for troops.
And that was all plot shit anyways, sometimes the enterprise was stupidly tanky. Sometimes it could square off with a Borg cube 1v1 for a few scenes, that's probably the most impressive showing of any federation vessel.
But yea, I think alot of emergency shield breakthroughs came out of starfleet's science division based on the runabouts data from the Odyssy fight. For starfleet's shields to go from ineffective to effective against those weapons, and then the Breen's, late Dominion war federation ships were probably like 3 times tankier than they were at Wolf 359 in shields alone.
to be fair this is during an actual war so many systems on these ships were refit to account for that. During TNG the Enterprise wasnt a warship until the Enterprise E that is... that things a beast.
I’d like to point out this was a TV series where SFX department had just weeks to do everything each ep. And the score was Oscar level.
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
@@shamelessnjc Yeah it's amazing how talented the cast and crew were. It's a damn shame they never got a movie.
@@jjimlee7009Also a shame that the series never got an HD release. I know it'd cost a fortune to do the whole series, but couldn't they have at least done some of the big battle episodes in HD for an anniversary celebration?
Imagine being aboard thinking well I could have been on the enterprise but u had cause that rip in the fabric of time and land here. Boom
@@ManabiLT Yeah. I can hope though someday. At least I can watch on Paramount+ the series in full whenever I want. Never get tired of watching the Sisko kick ass.
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed.
And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
SEATAC. Seattle-Tacoma.
@@stratfordbaby Check USS Sitak at Memory Alpha. RUclips won't allow direct link.
Such a bummer they blazed out. But EPIC
@@deaddropsd1972 There Maranda's, cover the holes with duct tape, slap on replicated engines and send them back out with a -B at the end of the registry.
@@stratfordbabyAs a non-(north) American, thanks for the clarification.
Ah, the Klingon "Ride of the Rohirrim - moment" ...
"Auxiliary power to weapons! We're going to fight our way out of this!" Klingon commander, to himself; "I think I just had a wargasm."
nope that was a stroke🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Wagasm explains Worfs Face 24/7 😂😂😂
This is a space battle. And the sequence has aged very well. I just wish there were longer combat sequences.
CGI was still in it's infancy and they did a mix of that and practical models.
Limited budget and the times, half of the shots used here are reused in the battle for cardassia later.
I prefer quiet scientific space trips. Fighting isn't ever good for anybody. People die, property gets destroyed, bad things happen all around. What's wrong with an exploratory journey on an unexplored planet? Not bloody enough for you? People shouldn't be so hateful they have to kill each other.
These few shots probably took most of the CGI budget for the entire season. Nothing on this scale had been done on Trek TV before.
Star Trek had an amazing ability to make you believe that ships couldn’t get past each other easily, in the infinite void of space.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
@@rrwholloway , for that detail of a battle set up you need Legend Of The Galactic Heroes or maybe Gundam.
@@rrwholloway Right. Unless you have clearly superior speed and momentum, trying to go around a large defensive force just means you'll get hit in the flanks or rear at a decidedly inconvenient time, especially in space where there's really no terrain to hinder either side. In this case, even if the Starfleet force somehow got around the Dominion one, they'd ultimately be trapped between their pursuers and the upgraded DS9 itself, which we've established as pretty damned capable of holding off an entire fleet for some time.
@@Wolfen443 And in book form read Jack Campbell's _The Lost Fleet_ series and its sequels. The author goes into great detail about the three dimensional battles in space, including accounting for the effects of time dilation (battles take place at no more than .2 combined speed of light, anything faster and the computer systems can't account for the uncertainty and score hits) and the vastness of space. (It's commented on often how weird it feels even for career fleet officers to have to wait _days_ for the actual battle after spotting the enemy fleet entering a star system, or when entering a star system themselves.)
Honestly, it's hard for me to visualize it all, but I really appreciate him putting in the details.
*watches as every enemy ship matches you move or move if you try to go around*
This is how you do it.
Every ships a character in the story and through them you see the drama unfold.
This is something I liked about SS9 for sure.
Being a boat nerd, I loved that they continued the TNG tradition of having The Mighty Hood pop up at times, but made it more badass. In TNG she was out in thr sticks, doing imoirtant offscreen work for the most part, and turned up around Enterprised periodically.
In DS9 she became a hero ship. Not because she was crewed by the protagonists, but because she did nighty things.
Unlike her unhappy predecessor she sailed on favourable winds, at the very spearpoint of the Federation war effort.
3:00 the Defiant surrounded by the Jem'Hadar, yet still shooting and weaving her way through the enemy is one of the most iconic shots of the entire series, in my opinion.
ExactoMundo
Tough little ship
Garak's face when the Klingons arrive 😂
"Aha! My elaborately cunning plans have succeeded once again!"
There’s always been something beautiful about the lines of the miranda class ships.
I feel like it's an effective design, honestly, kind of defiant'ish. Couldn't they weld some plating onto all this stuff for this war? The defiant was so tanky even when the shields were down. Could they not replicate just big titanium plates with their industrial replicators? And fuck windows, it's 2400, big 4k screens are cheap now, just make the wallpaper in every room be some 8k screen and run it all off cameras. The idea of windows is absurd now that I think about it, with how cheap cameras and displays are - even now.
Interesting how no-one trusts Garak but Sisko trusts him to be in a key role on the Defiant.
You can always trust Garek, provided your interests align. If they do, he's a hell of an asset.
Better have Garak close and as an asset, than to allow him to be unmonitored even for a Moment. Wise decicion by Sisko
keep your friends close….
most know the res
"They outnumber us two to one..."
"There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out."
"But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!"
"We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Amazing... I'm stealing this.
Audentes fortunae juvat
The most important part : they have 1200 ships. So Sisqo just lost 600 ships.
Like the mindset of the writers of The Last Jedi, how many Imperial Destroyers and Alliance fleet ships do you in the screen?. Fill it up with more CGI copies more ridiculous than the LOTR battles.
Imagine being in one of those fighters and knowing you have seconds remaining of life. It's a ridiculous suicide assignment.
You accept you are dead already. You just make sure to take out more of them, before you go down.
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
those fighters are automated in the 24th century
@@willt3223 No those are piloted ships. They adopted the same strategy as in ww2 that swarms of small craft could penetrate a large ships defenses and take it out with minimal cost of lives and material. Each starship is a massive expenditure in men and materials but each fighter is just a fraction of a fraction of the same cost.
imagine if instead of a galaxy starship, they had the number of attack wings as crew. so 1 galaxy = 1500 crew? that's 1500 attack wings that can take the place of 1 galaxy ship. i rather have that.
Still, to this day, some of the best battles in science fiction. I still get goosebumps when the Klingons come in fking sht up.
Very nice quality upload. Thanks!
The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
1809 -1892
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke
Shatter’d and sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder’d.
Honor the charge they made!
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
Whatever it is you are reciting, I wish you'd stop.
@@Anthony-jo7up It is what is being quoted in the clips my man. Learn a little history.
@@Anthony-jo7up’Took me a second to get it, then I started laughing. Good one! 😂’
@@user-ll4lf5go1m
I think he knows that, my man. He's just being sarcastic quoting the scene from DS9.
THANK YOU!
When the Klingon bird of prey blows up another when helping the defiant to breakthrough
i only noticed this years after viewing but when the dominion battleship blows up, it was because it shot up the other bird of prey and the tumbling wreck crashed along the entire length of the battleship.
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
Even as a teen, I noticed the disparity: The Defiant could seemingly take tons of hits and still keep going, but other ships would explode with just one or two hits and that huge Dominion ship at the end was destroyed with just a few shots. Plot armor is really the best kind.
Better not to think about it.
Also not sure they described why they had to face the fleet head on vs. Warp around it.. space is 3 dimensional its not like DS9 is in the briar patch with only 1 safe entrance. great sequences though
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
I'd rather see the ships than shield blurs everywhere. But that's just me.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle.
When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up?
Never could get over this.
It was a style choice, if there had been shield flares everytime a ship was hit, it would have had to have a seizure warning.
@@philipsnyder1687 lol
It was also a technical thing. They couldn't do shields for a hundred ships ether.
Bird of Preys were the way to go. You can run the ship with a crew of like 20 and it can rival any Jem'Hadar attack ship.
You can run a jem hadar ship on that too, and Jemmies are disposable
@@Belisaur Yea but flying a Jem'Hadar ship is harder with no damn viewscreen.
BOP's can go into battle with a skeleton crew of 6 not including combat solders can go up to 30. the Jem'Hadar ship requires a flight crew of 12 for operational capacity not including combat soldiers and can go up to 50. according to memory alfa.
This battle, and Bashir and O'Brien quoting that poem, give me chills every time
I remember watching this as a kid. I jumped out of my seat when I saw that green disruptor fire coming in and knew the Klingon had arrived to save the day
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
I was attached to the Light Dragoons from 2003-2005.
They/we would commemorate the charge of the Light Brigade every year.
Damn they knew how to party!
Epic!!! I remember recording this on VHS when it was first screened and watching it back about 100 times! 😂
Those Birds of Prey flying alongside the Defiant had the right idea: start firing, keep firing, don't stop firing. :-)
its so weird to me that in space, where there is literally infinite directions to fly in, there are "lines" they have to punch a hole through
I remember the week lead up for this or however long it was and it being such an amazing thing. Never before had we seen flea battles like this. Well yes I know that they had to cut out shields in order to make the fights actually go out of proper pace, still this was one of the most amazing things at the time. Sacrifice of angels indeed
Thinking of it now, even on Earth combat no one employs vessels or aircraft or units or even soldiers shoulder to shoulder like this anymore. In space combat, every ship would be quite far away from each other and beyond visual range even from the enemy. All done by long range sensors and weaponry, even today outside of infantry fighting. This is just cinematic fantasy.
I will never forget my brother and I screaming and repeating after Captain Sisko: " Set a course for Deep Space Nine - Maximum Warp!!!"
Can you imagine how happy the Klingons in the Bird of Preys were when charging with the Defiant at their sides?
"Dominion ships! Staggered line! Ship Master, they outnumber us 2 to 1!"
Sisco: "Then it is an even fight! All cruisers- fire at will! BURN their mongrel hides!"
The Biggest Advantage that StarFleet Had was that all the Writers homeworld was Earth, The Domain never Standed a Chance, oh well it's Still a Great Show
0:36 The Federation attack fighters flying in formation always gives me goosebumps
Poor Will... Everyone is firing at him... LOL
Good thing the Enterprise has plot armor then :P
@@jpalmer999 NOT that Will, the other one.
@@aracuron9956oh no
still better than Discovery
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe .
It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
@@cft9798Well a fair chunk of the first season was set in the mirror universe 😁
Much better, pal. Much better.
Compare this to Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2. I dare you. “Yum yum.”
the moment you her Klingon Disrupters, you realize its a very different battle
I always loved this scene. Back in the old days of Star Trek Online when they allowed you to choose actual cannon ship names to command I chose the Miranda class Majestic and flew her for many years and seeing her blow up on screen is glorious
Nu trek certainly doesn’t come near as bad ass as this, I miss this show
Still gets the blood pumping!
Why would you cut out part of the battle scene…?
This is one of the rare cases where early CGI models actually look pretty good even by today's standards. They did a great job on this show, more so than they did on Voyager.
Awesome scene of the TV show , WoW.
4:08 - When you play Top tier war thunder and your teammate has had enough of your shit
LOL I never noticed that the Klingons fly in from sun position like the Red Baron.
"They came screaming out of the sun..."
I loved the fact star trek finally got brave enough to do something like this. There's always errors on first attempt. However cudos for doing it.
Those saying in comments that they could go around the dominion fleet once they had them on scanner. That probably wouldn't work. Dominion could send ships to intercept. Since starfleet was outnumbered better to have fleet stick together. I agree with comments that admiral ross should have been in command of fleet. They had a 4 pip admiral command 40 ships to attack the borg cube.
Looks like the writer watched to much Babylon 5 in the fleet to fleet battles. Starfleet ships are way more maneuverable. They need room. This mistake was done in all the large fleet battles. Sisko actually says that as the go through dominion fleet. Can't believe he was the only one to notice that in the fleet.
There were alot of captains in the fleet that would have gotten court martialed after the fight. Sisko told everyone to go straight through. There were dozens of federation ships going across the dominion fleet and dozens even going backwards. Again it was a great moment for star trek shows. Why can't we go back to that?
Sacrifice of Ange3ls, RIP angels. I saw two galaxy class go down.
I like the Klingon shops coming with the star behind them.
STILL GIVES ME GOOSEBUMPS.....
Nice thanks for this video!
1200 Dominion ships!?
Holeee shipballz
DS9 version of SW Battle of Endor.
Lol. Lucas had a far larger budget!
This was the power of Lightwave 3D. I wish I could see the wireframe behind the scenes.
Pliny the Elder said that right before dying during the Mount Vesuvius eruption in AD 79, But he died a Hero attempting to rescue citizens.
Best battle scene of all start trek seeing the Klingons coming from nowhere
Best Star Trek series ever. My two favorites are Babylon 5 and Star Trek DS9.
They say 1254 Dominion ships and that they outnumber the Federation more than 2:1. Then they quote about the noble 600 from Tennyson. I never picked up there are 600 something Federation ships at the battle till now.
I love how during the show the cardassians went from being in command of dominion forces, to the exact opposite.
They really played with fire and got burned.
The Cardassians had no other option, the Federation and Bajor controlled wormhole and their influence was growing and the Dominion was to attractive, it was financial and military very strong, their intelligence gathering capabilities and placement of agents in the highest positions was also a strong point. But what they forgot that the Dominions has no Allies only pawns on a chess board.
The fact the attack fighters weren’t using full power torpedoes is an insult to their crews.
Afaik the peregrin only had low power phasers and micro photon torps. It's just a shuttle sized fighter after all but en mass their combined firepower can take down starships.
If they were using full sized photons they'd only be able to carry four before running out of ammo.
That actually makes perfect sense given the type of historical naval ship they're an analogue for, but, yknow, scifi.
This was quality sci-fi, they don't make shows like this any more.
The only thing that makes even plausible is that the Dominion is using the same ship designs they had when the war started. Meanwhile, the Federation has been cranking out new ships with all their top shelf tech built in.
MY BOY AKIRA WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU!!!!!!! my favorite class of starship in all of trek. the akira is so underrated and underutilized its a beast of a starship. torpedo boat and beam boat such a monster of a ship probably the closest to a true warship before defiant and the sovereign class.
This was basically the turning point in FX. For close ups and hero ships, they still relied on physical models but the rest was CGI.
"The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport." - Robert Heinlein
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse...
Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
4:05 - The Klingon ships were shooting themselves!
Classic Klingon all the time fighting each other lol
Certainly looked like friendly fire took out that first BoP.
They get a little excited sometimes.
The first one looks like it, I guess it does happen in the heat of battle. It could also have been a polaron torpedo from one of the battlecruisers
This probably shouldn't have resulted in losing a ship, except knowing Klingons they probably routed all rear shield power to the weapons allowing the friendly fire from the rear to take out the whole ship with one hit.
Nog: "Isn't anybody else worried about this gas?"
Can someone help identify a federation ship at 0:39 top right, is that an ambassador class? Sweeping nacelles.
Seems like it's another Excelsior. Though it does look like it has swept pylons for some reason.
@@CupcakeEternity Definately too blurry to really identify including secondary hull.
Fortune favors the bold, but it doesn’t favor the stupid. When you are outnumbered, attack your enemy in detail and give yourself a strong local advantage like Caesar and Napoleon.
The concept of breaking through lines in space is certainly a suspension of belief with so few ships.
They didn't really show it to good effect but there were LOTS of fighters, each capable of firing at least several photon torpedoes. And for the sake of action they showed fighters exploding after a single hit, but in reality they could take a couple hits. The fighters were actually much more combat effective in terms of personnel and material expenditure than capital ships. You're not any safer in a galaxy class cruiser than you are in a fighter. You just feel more comfortable the last 30 seconds of your life.
Thats why sisko ordered the fighters to focus on cardasians because they actually were hitting quite hard.
That Cardacian dude had a lot of balls for playing with Cisco‘s balls. 😅👉🏼⚾️🤷🏻♂️
Damn the torpedoes! GO RIGHT AT THEM!
Who's Still Listening To This In 2036 ?
Shout Out !
Spoiler Alert !
We Survived Asteroid Apophis In 2029 And Again In 2036 !
Its fitting that Sisko says 'Fortune favors the bald!'
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
I would love to see these battles remastered with more updated action sequences.
God I miss Star Trek!!
After the Dominion War, The Starlfeet improve and build reallye more Batlle Ships to defend her Lines.
How come DS9 did not get a movie?
Hearing people recite Charge of the Light Brigade before going into a battle like that would bother me too.
three dozen Akira class battlecruisers to add, would have punched through. 15 torp launchers and multi phaser arrays is formidable. One took down 3 warbirds.
These were great sci-fi tv and space battles, but I never got why they didn’t just warp to DS9 and fight there!
Somehow I picture the Klingons singing as they join the battle.
Funny enough the writers are always thinking 2-dimensional in SciFi... you can just fly/warp around the enemy armada
Guess we know were Geordi got his spares from now ;-)
For any wondering, the poem they are quoting is "Charge of the Light Brigade".
This is still excellent.
I often wonder if the writers intended for this whole battle to reveal the absolute depth of Dukat's self-crippling ego. He baits in the Starfleet force with the intent to destroy it, but he doesn't have to win this battle at all. He only has to buy time for the minefield to come down, allow Dominion reinforcements through the wormhole, and guarantee victory.
Instead, he's so intent on swinging his dick in front of Weyoun and the Founder that he employs a more aggressive strategy, allowing Sisko - the one being in all existence with enough clout to make the Prophets listen to him - to reach the wormhole and barter with his life to make the reinforcements disappear. Dukat was right: victory was in his grasp. But it wasn't the kind he wanted, so he threw it away.
Am I reading too much into this, or is this an example of writing with fantastic subtext? None of the dialogue calls attention to it, so I honestly don't know.
2:42 - shields suck on a Miranda class. One shot and the saucer section is toast. 😮
Fix them then: 6 Lines of code... 👽👽😎🙃🥳🦍
It’s an old hull, only so much you can do to upgrade and retool it.
Would suggest that the power input was so massive that the shields immediately overloaded, as if they weren't there.
By this point in history, the Miranda class was already half a century or more old. It wasn't built for modern combat.
@@terryroraus Miranda had only upgraded phasers and was 100 years old, but Excelsior class had new shields, phasers and quantum torpedos.
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
It probably the venture which was one of the galaxy classes seen in other episodes. The other I think was the Magellan
The leaders in the Alpha quadrant all bickered and argued that they needed to come together to fight this war from the Dominion who came from the Gamma quadrant, to conquer. Some refused which made it 1:2 in favor of the Dominion
And people forget that a Galaxy Class could take on 5 Dominion fighters until the Dominion rammed them...
I'd assume that these are upgraded.
It doesn't mean the Federation Fleet lost that battle... they just got a bit behind.
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor.
It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9.
The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage.
Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
This was something i very liked. In my opinion there are way to less big space battles in Star Trek series
If you are that close. Shields will be worned out extremely fast. Play Start Trek Online, or any ship battle with shield. 1 vs 1 it takes time to knock ti down. But if there's a line of ships, and you have a line of ships. You got phasers, cannons and torpedoes all over the place. If a group of ships target just your ship. You're done. It's a battle otf who has the most ships, who can dish out the most volleys, and finally who can take the most damage.
If you're a small ship next to a Jem Hadar Battle Cruister, At full shield, one beam would knockout your shield and blow you up. Those ships have planetary size phasers/polaron emitters.