Could One F-22 Raptor REALLY Beat Three F-15 Eagles In BVR Missile Fight? | DCS
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2024
- 0:00 Intro
1:44 Predictions
3:15 ROUND 1 (Cap)
14:39 ROUND 2 (Scott)
22:11 ROUND 3 (Simba)
29:16 ROUND 4(Grump)
34:15 ROUND 5 (Cap)
44:13 ROUND 6 (Simba)
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LOTS of viewers complaining that this is unrealistic and that in real life the F-22 would just depend on AWACS datalink and track the Eagles from that. Of course you are correct, but in game the F-22 does not have datalink support, so this is a big variation from real life. Also we do not have the real Raptor's AESA radar.
I hope the F-22 will the it's radar, datalink and thrust vectoring sometime soon
That's in an ideal world. AWACS can be rendered combat ineffective. The ROE may prohibit BVR, especially in a coalition air war. Reality has a nasty way of biting the "ideal" in it's bum.....Just look at the first vesions of the F$; "Oh, it won't need a gun, it's got long-range missiles". Yup....
@@mitchburdge8319 if it’s 100% realistic some Russian dude might know how to beat it
@@jakethesnake9621 do you think I mean that I want it to be the same as IRL that would be unfair because I'm sure it the F-16 and F-18 are not the same as thay are IRL I just want it to be like the F-16 and F-18 in DCS
Not necessarily fella, the fact is that these lads are gamers and not extremely highly trained and skilled fighter pilots who have had a lot of practice in the tactics that you would need to fly such a complex and capable aircraft.
The thing is the raptor gains effectiveness when there are 2 or more of them. One can turn on its radar and tac link it to the others so all know where the enemy is but the enemy only knows of one of them.
Functionally, the one Raptor with radar on become a mini-AWACS directing the silent killers.
If at all. Low probability of intercept radar
@@kdaltex If you do not have a modern radiation warning system and enemy has AESA radars don't bother taking off.
@@kdaltex exactly. The F-22 mod is severely handicapped compared to the real thing
@@bradedwards3438 Something that Gripen done since 1990is or datalink Draken since 1960is... No wonder Gripen plays with F35 at RedFlags. 5-0
Awesome flying guys.
Cap, you are a true BADASS on DCS.
I would love to see you fight Growling Sidewinder in a East vs West aircraft series. Different timeliness. WW1, WW2, VIETNAM, Falkland War, Gul War through 5th.
Please make it happen!
That would be hardcore.
It would be nice to see Cap v. GS in the F22 3 on 1 challenge. The results might be a little different than what we saw here, IMO
The Raptors AESA radar is supposed to be difficult to use ELINT against. But I don't know if that is modeled in game.
Yes it's an LPI radar similar to the F35 (I think and Typhoon's new one)
It is not at all modeled in game but yes
AESA radar not in DCS. All modern planes have old mechanical radars in DCS.
I mean was* not is. I'm sure agaisnt ELINT of the time it was impossible to pick up, but while the raptor's radar hasn't really changed much in the 30 years it's been around, ELINT has changed quite a bit. Especially when you consider that other less than friendly countries also have stealth aircraft with LPI radar's meaning that to maximize effectiveness of US aircraft, they'd need a serious ELINT upgrade.
That seems like a pretty major omission?
Reminds me of Demolition man. "We'll wait till he commits a murder death kill then we'll know where he is" LOL
One F-22 can shoot down F-15's all day until he runs out of weapons. When I was an airline Capt. with a young F-15 pilot in the right seat, he would tell us "I go out and fly in the practice area every weekend I fly around for an hour and they call me and say, "you can go home now , you have been shot down" It happens over and over again and I have never seen or had an F-22 on radar or in sight".
Fly against late tranche Typhoon or Rafale and remain undetected - not going to happen.
it's ok buddeh, go home, you're done :D wait, what? :D
Of course! Unlike what you see here in this scenario, in exercises the "ground" is simulated, so you have a much higher deck to basically avoid anyone making a smoking crater in ground time.
The issue there is, the stealth and radars do not implement terrain over the new and much higher deck so what you can do is very limited.
However, training with real ground is a bad idea though, as nasty accidents happen when you push enevlope which is always tragic.
You've never even flown a Cessna kid. Keep dreaming dork.
@@LondonSteveLee where? at 30 miles? 20 miles? in a typhoon you are going to be spotted by any 5th gen jet from at least double that range. until it gets to visual range any rafale or typhoon pilot is going to be at a huge disadvantage and they would be the first to tell you that.
I gta be honest these videos are really awesome and educational but........ there is a comedy element aswel that makes them even better, the swearing and light banter 😃 10/10 from me.
love the team BVR fights, teamwork adds so many layers to it
Love it. Cap said at 34:27 its stupid to use left and right and said at 35:15 okay im gonna turn right. Well done!
That's because he was talking to us, the valid viewers, and not to his teammates. For us it's easier to understand right and left than 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock or 330 degrees. But when speaking to your wingmen you are better off using the cardinal directions.
So, first, thank you as always for the interesting content. I'm posting this before watching the entire video just based on Cap's early radar activity. All I know is, before heading into this engagement and seeing what happens, is that anecdotal reports from Red Flag war games back to around 2018 or 2019, had a pilot quoting that his F-16 was taken out by a missile with absolutely zero warning, at about 40m out, and he never saw any indication of the Raptor he was up against. I just get the feeling we don't know the full capability of the Raptor, how well other aircraft can detect it with and without radar enabled (plus the wildcard of jamming I presume?) and there are just so many unknown or uncertain variables on how to handle a stealth aircraft with the RCS of the Raptor within DCS, combined with the fact that this is a mod team who created a high quality and reasonably accurate mod per our best guess, but both the mod team and the valued viewer community honestly have no clue on how to model top secret systems on a jet which took ten to fifteen years or so to develop, involving many millions of lines of code and new avionics over all other peer jets when it was being developed. Much like the numerous delays and issues announced with the F-35 program and it's code due to that array of systems being entirely new even compared to the closest related systems, of the F-22 itself. Cheers. :)
Especially bc the F-22 has a low-probability of intercept (LPI) radar, it wouldn't turn of its radar. Well maybe when there's a AWACS or other assets guiding the Raptor.
So I'm at 34 min in now. I'd say my first post above is the conclusion. None of this radar detection makes sense. When we had Cap in the F-22 he said he was cold and had the F-15 showing up still at times. Now we have the F-22 flying around and even when F-15's are going radar hot, the F-22 isn't detecting anything. It's as if the F-15 is nearly as stealthy as the F-22 and that's why everyone is flying around/past each other? I don't really get it to be quite honest. So confused.
Yeah, so right before Cap's first shot on the last fight now. He had signatures from two of three F-15's for most of the approach. Then he put his radar hot and he couldn't lock them. Per my Red Flag actual pilot comment, he was taken out easily at range with no F-22 radar contact. I imagine he had jamming of some kind enabled, yet the Raptor appears to have easily locked onto him long enough for an effective long range shot. I love the video idea, I just don't think it has much bearing on real world stuff. :(
My professional*** opinion: that F-22 mod is bugged AF right now.
***: Not professional.
Some added info. It's just a random website quoting the RCS of a lot of different jets from different countries and generations, but here's a quote on the F-15 RCS: "Among the U.S. fighter planes, the 4G F-15 has an RCS of 25m2."
Here's a quote on the F-22's AESA radar (Northrop designed AN/APG-77
installed in the F-22, quote per Wikipedia): "The APG-77 provides 120° field of view in azimuth and elevation. APG-77 has an operating range of 100 mi (160 km) while unconfirmed sources suggest an operating range of 125-150 mi (201-241 km), against a 1 m2 (11 sq ft) target. A range of 400 km or more, with the APG-77 with newer GaAs modules is believed to be possible while using more narrow beams."
Unless I'm missing something, that draggy loadout on the F-15 combined with that estimated RCS should result in the F-22 picking it up immediately, all three targets, and at the starting range, the estimated 120 degree field of view for elevation would catch the higher altitude targets too? But in the video at least, the F-22 couldn't lock onto anything quickly, and never showed more than one target for more than a short period.
This was far more exciting than I thought it would be. Really illustrated when and how the Raptor wins, and loses.
Not just because of this particular video, but all your work you put in to each video. Happy Thanksgiving all of GR and you and your family Cap!
The F-22’s radar is designed to be difficult to detect. It frequency hops and appears like noise to RWRs
Agree BUT that side of it is not modelled in game.
@@grimreapers do it against a modern aircraft and have them turn their RWRs off
Which worked really well 20 years ago - things move on. With modern digital signal processing, the (what appeared to be) random noise is now a random noise source that moves like an airplane! Modern back-end processing remembers every blip in relation to where your aircraft is pointing building a moving 3D picture of the airspace around you - it then crunches that data in real time to find patterns of emissions that could be something flying. Using this technology Typhoon can merge emissions detected from all types of sensor - even radio emissions giving the pilot a probable/unknown target warning. This sort of processing would have taken a football field worth of computers a month to crunch in 1990. A $50 DSP chip can do this in real time. F-22 currently has none of these technologies or the computing power or data-bandwidth to run them. This is where the lateness of the Typhoon project paid off - the giant leap in processing power and memory density in the mid 90s onwards meant CPU and databus bandwidth performance could be "wasted" on common "chatty" interfaces, making upgrades a walk in the park - Ditto for Rafale and Gripen. F-22 was dead unlucky - coded where every cycle counted hence the almost impossible to maintain spaghetti code and point to point hand-coded interfaces - the same issues that killed off Nimrod MR4A. It seems the upgraded F-22 is going to have isolated flight controls and then have a completely new sensor and datalink package bolted on using external pods (probably loosely based on F-35) giving up some some stealth, endurance and performance for modern passive sensor capabilities. This makes total sense as stealth is a dead end now anyway - and trying to package these new capabilities under the skin of F-22 would make the project practically impossible from a cost point of view due to integration issues.
@@LondonSteveLee : I don't think stealth is dead.
And the reason why has nothing to do with radar itself, per se.
The reason I don't think it's dead is because I think aircraft engineers will try to limit signal return, just like a submerged sub with sonar. Basically, the idea is to either absorb the signal, or bounce it off at angle it can't be returned. This is what the Sea Wolfe class sub did in order to achieve underwater stealth, and I think that it may be the "final frontier," so to speak, for aviation as well.
@@isaiahwelch8066 Stealth is useful - having a smaller RADAR signature is useful - but not if it compromises the plane's effectiveness. Modern RADAR (well actually RADAR return processing) can picked out "stealth" planes at rangers beyond the capability of their weapons. In which case the additional cost and complexity is pointless. I'd rather have more, simpler planes and spend the money improving the weapons.
Seems as though Scott needs to work on his call outs, great video but dude needs some work lmao.. head on merge should be an immediate call out of targets travel bearing. Damn whoevers talking in that moment xD
This video made me realize that I need to bind radar on/off to my HOTAS. 2k hours in DCS and GR still teaches me things :)
Great fight, fellas! Enjoyed that.
Does DCS give a static cross-section modifier to stealth aircrafts or does it give a different modifier depended on the angle the aircraft is viewed at ?
Read somewhere that something that against X-band radar the F-35 had a front cross-section reduction of like 95%, side of like 65% and a rear of 35% compared to its size profile.
Planes do have a drastically different RCS when viewed from different angles, DCS uses a static RCS.
So when it comes to detection ranges, sadly DCS is not realistic.
Each plane has a modifier value, and that is applied to a modifier based on aspect etc.
Yep, DCS does it backwards, if that makes sense. The base should be applied to a dynamic aspect modifier, not the way they do it. It's all about what is possible without drastic game engine changes.
Also, stealth is a scam! 'They' already know how to defeat it and have known since Lord Johnson gave us the Blackbird.
USAF General Gilmary Michael "Mike" Hostage already confirms USAF F-35A has lower RCS when compared to F-22A.
@@wheeljork SR-71 Blackbird's stealth materials are obsolete.
Jesus... Does Simba fly by braille? He keeps going on walkabout in a fighter
awww we love our Simba x
Well, this was a lot more exciting than anticipated. Angry viewers = comments. Comments = engagement. Engagement = good. It doesn't matter as long as they come back to get angry again. Some people enjoy being like that, you know. It may be trouble but it's the good kind of trouble.
Remember that winwing technology is your ultimate hardware solution :) 135
agreed
What this tells us is that skill means about as much as technology. Unless you're in a P51 then skill can still take the day.
If you get into a turning fight at low altitude, the P51 pilot wouldn't need much skill to hit those jets with his 1/2" guns.
DCS has many limiting factors for these "Scenarios" There are simply too many variables missing. These companies spend tens of millions to develop these aircraft so on a good day DCS can replicate maybe 60% of it in terms of true capability especially with these 5th gen fighter mods which are made based on little public info so as far and realism is concerned they likely aren't as realistic as people like the believe. F-22 IS the premiere air superiority and there isn't a fanboy argument for any other aircraft in the world that can counter that. Its simply too advanced and nothing else can measure up to it right now.
awesome as usual! though this is funny giveth that there have been several f22 pilots who have mentioned a similar scenario.
This. REDFOR pilots get jumpy when there's a Raptor in the area and make stupid mistakes.
Simba just keeps following that Samba beat…. Rather than a map…. 😃
This was great, top flying on that last one cap!
'Sip of tea', I am going to use that one! :)
This is one of the most profound beat-downs I've seen in years.
Good practice! Would be interesting to run it again but with three Su-35's with all EO loadouts.
I love having additional bottoms!
Its more complex IRL when dealing with Low Observable fights, one of the biggest things is E-WAR and ECM pods on stuff like EA-18G Growlers. Given there are no 18G's in DCS, and ECM in DCS is crudely done by IRL standards due to the highly classified nature of how modern ECM and ECCM systems actually work.
Suffice to say your RADAR and even your AWACS would have a bitch of a time with all of the "noise" you would need to burn through just to get even a glimpse on RADAR of an F-22 and you would likely be deep in the kill zone or dead by the time you even had an idea of where an F-22 might be.
“Suffice to say your RADAR and even your AWACS would have a bitch of a time with all of the "noise" you would need to burn through just to get even a glimpse on RADAR of an F-22 “
Absolutely not a problem - precisely the kind of processing DSP systems were developed to address. You can now amplify RADAR returns to what appears to be an unintelligible messy bunch of noise in the analogue world, but techniques such as oversampling and heat-mapping finds constants in all that noise picking out tiny, tiny reflections - it’s chicken feed these days. Just think how sophisticated the image stabilisation hardware is on your $100 camera - something that would not have been achievable at any cost in real time 30 years ago - in your pocket. The iWatch on your wrist has infinitely more processing power and memory than a 10 million dollar IBM mainframe from 1990 (the sort of 5 tonne machines that were once inside AWACs!) The image software on phones that can edit out whole sections of the picture filling in a plausible gap! AI systems which can understand you and even read lips. The leap in technology has been profound in the last 20 years mainly due to a massive increase in memory density + DSP - it’s this leap that completely bypassed F-22.
Take a look at flight trackers the west of the black sea - okay occasionally there are dedicated NATO Sentries and US spy drones - but why are there boring off the shelf tanker-type aircraft running circuits for hours on their own? Because small, relatively cheap off-the-shelf pods bolted to these simple aircraft can replace the featureset of entire dedicated surveillance platforms of yesteryear. Which is primarily why Nimrod MRA4 was scrapped - it was obsolete before they finished it. In terms of on board systems, F-22 is obsolete until they refresh it.
I'll betcha AWACS (or another F-22 at distance acting as AWACS) is the magic ingredient IRL.
Fine teamwork to the Eagle drivers! Sneak peek of the F-15EX's future tactics perhaps.
F22's routinely beat more than 3 eagles...
I remember when I launched out a major in a t-33 against captains in two f-15's in a simulated gun intercept mission. The Major won and bought offered me a case of beer-I asked for a six pack of imported ale. That was the best ale ever drank and I think his best training mission.
The zoom function gives the the f15 the most advantages
s p e e d .
Stuff like this really makes me want try my hand at this kind of thing being a military aviation nerd.
Love it SuperCap! Now for Kortana vs yall
This is new Firefox film!
@@TeenTeenFpv hell yeah!
Simba, don’t feel too bad you are just like a lost rookie LT. You will eventually get there but the route may be in question.
I know NAHting about ANY of this. I just enjoy tuning in to listen to CAP going Force 10 hilarious with his running commentary. And oh yeah, planes are awesome.
Exciting!
from reading the comments I can confirm, Internet is angry
/run away!
In training one Raptor easily defeats six F-15s, and that's with the F-15s knowing which patch of sky to look in.
Yes well it may be different in real life.
@@grimreapers Yup. I don't understand you getting hate for the way a video game turns out. I'm sorry so many of my countrymen are idiots.
From a F15 Wizzo I know, F22 is cute. Great plane, slight shot against a crew who knows what they are doing in a F15E. Good luck with multiple.
Well done Eagles! Maybe the 4 on 12 would aid the raptor as 1 could probe forward and the rest lob delta AMRAAMS on delta link?
Maybe in real life, definitely not in game as we don't have shoot on dl in even fully paid modules let alone community made mods
@@notravstar thanks! Makes sense!
"Mk.1 eyeballs".
Welcome back to WWII.
Entertaining as always Cap 🧢 is the man
Thanks!
I don't agree with F5 usage for this one.
agreed
Yeh even I was thinking of that when doing it...
@@grimreapers If you start recognizing my name (hah), please don't take my comments the wrong way or anything. Feel the love.
that last dogfight was really something else
Lmao never seen cap be this tilted before especially throughout the entirety of the video. That tea had him acting different and it’s great.
I think the real statistic that came out of this is that Cap went undefeated. :)
Kick ass saw part of the stream
I extruded! Classic Super Cap! You are all awesome!
Nice flight and fight!!
Hey cap, I'm wondering what the gun range of various cold war to current fighter/interceptors would be.
If a commercial sized aircraft like a tanker or awacs was being intercepted buy something like a su-15 what would be the optimum range for a guns kills?
Very interesting...
0:10
Cap: Blah, blah, blah...
Valued Viewers: What the heck is going on in that photograph???
I literally scrolled through every comment and this was the only one I saw that mentioned the picture
I'm about to find out!
The way you did it with 3 f-15's to find and track the F-22 was very close to the tactics used by American tankers in WW2, to kill german tanks.
Cap saying bieatch si just too funny to me🤣
It still seems ridiculous to me that the US didn't have the foresight to complete the F22 production run...
I was honestly quite pissed off when I heard the F-22 was cut back so far. I had seen the demo pilot first hand, and even without knowing all of the tech details, I knew it was damn special. I think DoD and Congress got excited about the F-35 and honestly, they could still be right since the F-35 and F-22 likely won't get to BFM if working with an AWACS and some Growlers in the sky with them, particularly with the AIM-260 and other future missiles rumored in development. Plus the data link to the F-15 EX missile/bomb truck will be nasty; 22 hardpoints if I recall?
The US Military can't have everything, especially when politicians are involved. There has been little threat till recently, and we are on to 6 gen prototypes.
f22 is stupid expensive and is primarily an air to air fighter. Its a powerful air frame but seems a bit too much for when it was delivered. Early 2000's air to air combat wasn't really a thing in middle east, Russia didn't really have an answer to it with the felon only just now coming online and the chinese air force also wasn't really a threat. compare that to the f35 which is much more flexible/cheaper its not hard to see why the f22 was cut short. Now doctrine seems to be moving away from single wonder weapons and more towards fleets of interconnected force multipliers to reduce the chances of a single point of failure. having said that the f22 is super cool even if its real power is likely only to be realized in simulators like this
F-22 STILL isn't finished and is 20 years behind other frontline fighters in terms of avionics due to it being insanely complex to upgrade. The best plane (as a plane) out there - no doubt - but a buggy complex liability to operate - F-35 is hardly any better in all those respects.
@@LondonSteveLee I am not sure where you are getting that information but it's patently false from any source I've seen/heard.
Interesting. So, why wouldn't you shoot some AMRAAMs within pitbull range and let them have a little surprise?
Just getting started on the video but 1v3 isn't the same as 4v16 with the reason being that with four F-22s one can play "hot" to find the Eagles and presumably draw their attention while the other three can use the information from the first to sneak in.
That literally sounds like the hunting methods of Raptors in Jurassic Park. Terrifying.
Thanks for the very interesting content. Is the F-22 model used here a 3rd party mod? Asking this because as said in other comments, it doesn't support LPI AESA radar so I wonder if DCS itself doesn't support AESA yet.
It is a mod yes, and per Cap, no AESA radar in DCS yet. Hope this helps!
@@jamison884 Do you know which mod they used. Grinelli’s doesn’t work in normal DCS it defaults to AI pilot no matter what you do. I am currently downloading open beta to see if it will work.
@@currahee95t18 I have Grenelli's mod and it still works fine in DCS Stable?? (2.7.various nos after lol)
In case you want to try the mod: ruclips.net/p/PL3kOAM2N1YJcbzwU5FCo0DRmCdF3owO1o
some said the rational ratio should be around 7. so it would left su-57 no chance .
they will even be destroyed by their own shames when entering 300 km of f22 combat radius
Cap. I am going to make a suggestion here for a rematch of this video. I know you have your crew here that are the usual suspects in your videos. I am going to suggest you bring in 2 other DCS players to act as the OPFOR in the F-22s. I don't know if you all like or tolerate each other but what about Growling Sidewinder and Longshot? I believe they both have the F-22. I know GS does for sure. The reason I am suggesting this is you all in some fashion can guess to some extent what the other pilots in your crew are going to do. I am suggesting them because thanks to the algorithm I found your channel by watching GS first.
I'm not sure, but given that GS is in Canada (and I'm guessing Longshot is stateside?), there's might be scheduling considerations that would make it challenging
I'd be up for it. Only likely problem is that I know we record in different time zones, and now I'm a family man it's hard for me to do other time zones.
GS will smoke GR, he's methodical in his dogfight tactics, and his grasp of outdated tactics per scenario is beyond what we see here given a team aspect. Simba alone would have GS repeatedly laughing at GS. Cap is strong, but his team are potheads that are just there for the giggles.
It would be more expensive, but I think a TOE (Track On Emissions) system on a Fox-3 missile would be beneficial, think a system like an AGM-88 HARM but for Air to Air. It would also be worthwhile for anti-AWACS operations.
Witnessed 2 Raptors take on 12 F-15’s and 2 F-18E’s during an exercise and it was unreal. This was in 2011-12ish though.
Cap, you do children’s ministry at church? You’re a true hero!
yes every Tuesday. bloody exhausting...
Stimulation of viewer confirmed. Well done.
I do have a question Cap. In game, the Raptor's radar in the MFD appears to scan like an analog design, although, the Raptor's radar is digitally scanned and has many, many individual transceivers in the AESA array which can scan many different directions at once. Can you explain this because this has been driving me crazy! Thanks for everything you do Cap!
The dev of the f-22 mod can only work with the available info of the F-22. That information your talking about is still classifed
You don’t send multiple beams at the same time: you send them interleaved, one after the other.
Basically, it’s not magic. It’s like a mechanical antenna, it can just instantly change direction. That’s pretty neat though.
DCS doesn’t model any AESA radars so this mod uses a regular analog radar as if it was any other fighter in the sim
In DCS the F-22 uses the old 80's radar from the F-15C. Best we can do I'm afraid :(
20:10 How did you know you had beaten that missile? Just simply from the geometry, that your buddy was so close so the missile would have passed you by then? Impressive situational awareness either way
It comes with experience. You just get to know the missile characteristics. Plus, his RWR's missile warning was silent.
I would like to see how Kortana (fully up to speed on both machines) fares. It seems to me that the better pilot(s) won.
that would be funny as F...... setting the Wolf among the lambs......
Invite Growling Sidewinder to be a guest. You three vs him in a similar set up. He seems really good so it would def be a challenge.
You always have to remember with statements by US military personnel that the US military complex runs huge marketing campaigns to get politicians to funnel even more tax money to them, and paying personnel is a quick and cheap way to make that marketing less obvious.
Comments come from the international pilots just as much though. I get what you're saying and the US pilots have an incentive to say positive things, but I just wanted to mention that.
3:00 - The AN/APG-77 AESA radar, which is installed in F-22, possesses some of the finest low-probability of intercept (LPI) characteristics, making it difficult for hostile sensors to detect it, let alone geolocate it. Don't think the LPI will be picked up as you think.
That WAS the case - things have moved on thanks to increased memory density and real-time digital signal processing. The "random" emissions of APG-77 (and or other electronic noise) can be stitched together to detect a flight profile. Random noise is no longer random noise - exactly the same technology that has rendered RADAR stealth obsolete where tiny returns can be picked out of what was clutter in the analogue world.
@@LondonSteveLee dude, i don't think you realize this is against F-15Cs. whatever fancy bs you're talking about is not on those airframes.
Simbas brain process ^^
I haven't even watched this video and my answer is probably yes, as a Eurofighter Typhoon has done this already
Have they added thrust vectoring yet? Was good fun 👍
Neg
Does DCS model the lower probability of intercept of an AESA radar? Or do none of the modeled aircraft have AESA radars? (Does the f-22 mod use a custom radar? It's based on another aircraft right? I know the f-22 in real life has an excellent radar)
DCS does not model any LPI or AESA radar
It's really hard to properly simulate different radars, jamming... electronic warfare because capabilities of these systems are still secret.
@@dariozanze4929 the true capabilities are secret, but they can still be roughly simulated.
All radars in DCS are old mechanical, even F-22 etc.
@@FlyingWithSpurts yeah, I've already seen people simulate them. You can see how something like it could be a tactical advantage: ruclips.net/video/JP3eI8_BquE/видео.html
When I was on the F-22 program we put 2 F-22's against 8 Eagles. The Eagles never got radar or visual contact before the F-22's killed them all multiple times. So yes it can and was done.
Good IRL report. The same "In Real Life" report came from my fellow pilot. He was a F-15 driver. Never had radar or visual and always was shot down.
F-15 is an antique. A late Tranche Typhoon, Rafale or late Gripen (depending on sensor package) would detect you passively outside the range of block C AMRAMM. Your only chance would be to go in with a cold nose directed by AWAC - which would have a METEOR heading its way pretty damn quick. F-22 is the best physical plane in the world - no doubt - but it needs that sensor/avionics upgrade PDQ or it's a hanger queen in reality against (on-paper) inferior aircraft with up-to-date sensor packages and better weapons.
I think we need more tea updates!
The tactics made the win...!
US military did this but with more 15’s and an AWACS for the 15’s. Have done this more than once…. 15’s and AWACS never saw the 22’s… even close in… never saw them
That RWR is a radar in and of itself.
Big fan of that sexy F22, but that big beast of Eagle is still the dominant fighter period...it helps that its been a few wars of service for the Eagle. Raptor hasn't had the experience that the mid 80's and through desert storm and operations "whatever America calls something" Iraqi freedom that the legacy aircraft has. But good god do those Americans know how to make a sexy freaking aircraft. Much love from northern Canada!
It’s a great day!
Everyone talking about the capabilities of the F22 need to realise that their information is what is made available to the public. Meaning it will always have a bias in favour of the US military and Lockheed Martin, since it's what they permit to be released.
Most people talking about US military capability are the equivalent of Ferrari fanboys talking about how they're going to win next season because of what they've heard from the team drivers and Ferrari's social media accounts.
While that is true, their is also something of a historical president of the U.S. military under hyping, and understating there capiblites, unlike some other militaries.
And no general is going to set up a red flag exercise giving F-22s opposition any chance against her - ie heads would roll when congress find out their trillion dollar baby got shot down by a 1970s jet with bleeding edge sensors and missiles fitted (coz it's easy to upgrade). It was the same deal when the RAF were flying around in the over-budget joke known as Tornado F3 - in exercises with the Navy they'd come up with ridiculous rules of engagement to stop Sea Harrier (II) getting anywhere near Tornado one-to-one - F3 didn't stand a chance - the AMRAAM/Blue Vixen integration was world class. Ironically Typhoon wouldn't have stood a chance either either as the mid-course datalink to AMRAAM was NEVER completed until METEOR finally arrived. This was criminal penny-pinching and neglect as CAPTOR was based on Sea Harrier's Blue Vixen which meant much of the integration hard work had already been done.
Do it against 3 su35 then against 3 su30sm I want to see how can fox 2 long can do and I want to see how the su can detect f22 IR signals then do su57 vs f15
Hey Cap, Have you tried a combined systems scenario with AWACS and EWR with a flight of F-22 against legacy crafts?
Sadly F-22 is DCS does not have a datalink. In real life obviously it will make a HUGE difference.
@@grimreapers How about the other way around, legacy fighters searching for F-22 using data link?
Is Low Probability of Intercept Radar modeled in DCS? Because that is a major investment of the Air Force on the B2, F22 & F35. It reduces the likelihood of enemy RWR picking them up.
It is not no.
Technology that's already obsolete. Late tranche Typhoon and Rafale can build a 3D picture of "random" RADAR bursts, radio emissions and IR spikes, then crunch the merged data in real-time to see if the source of all these bursts follows what could be construed as a pattern of flight. Gripen can do it as well when fitted with particular sensor suites. Data points age and drop off the moving map of the airspace around them. Any constant that appears amongst all that noise then appears on the system as an unknown hostile which the pilot could glance at in his HMD lock and fire a speculative lock after launch missile at - which could be guided towards further emissions of course. IRST and RADAR return oversampling also means detection of stealth aircraft - both passively and actively - is possible beyond the range of F-22's block C AMRAAM.
I wanted to place my bet before watching, try to see if I'm correct. Intuitively the F15s in a long range flight would probably be chopped up. If they could force a close-in visual fight that'd be their only chance I'm guessing... but given I've seen an F22 fly in reverse vertically at an air show under full control authority, no doubt this would take a very seasoned F15 pilot that really knows their aircraft.
Tee has been drunk ;)
I would have given the F-22 an AWAC since there are multiple reports that suggest F-22 has multiple advanced sensors which give it the capability of See first, Shoot first. I have to say that with even with all the information out there, the mod doesn't seem realistic at all.
Multiple advanced sensors is precisely what F-22 DOESN'T have - which is why it's currently obsolete until it's refreshed.
Raptor must be good , The Air Force & Defense Dept Killed it off. They need to develop something they can sell .
That's what the f35 was built for.
This circumstance is a perfect example of why the F-22 should have an electrical optical system like the Su-57.
Would it have made sense to go back high once you had forced them down into the thick air? Then you could have painted them all and launched from high altitude. Those would be dangerous missiles, and would at least have kept them defensive while you bored in for the kills.
What happened to IFF in that first round?
Does Cap still use the x56 hotas and would he recommend it as a step up from the x52 pro?
was you using the original Grenneli 2.0 mod or the one modified by the other guy??(can't think of his name!) You seemed to be over G alot and I don't find that very happening much with the 22 even with the overide?? The F22 mod is a jittery bugga with the overide on..... I would have gone fast and low and come up underneath Wrath of Kahn style.......
I think it was a NightStorm variant. TBH it wasn't working properly, the FCS override didn;t work. My fault for using an old variant.
@@grimreapers I'd go back to the orginal version. With your 9s not firing maybe bay doors not configured properly??
dampf "let's go brandon" sock is a known quantity but grumpf and his sometimes wingless f-15's... I think he might be dark maga... does he ever name... them?
If Over the Horizon radar was never invented, sure.
It seems as fights grow in numbers, the effectiveness of any one fighter goes down. What’s interesting about the f22 is utilizing the joint data link . I wonder how they keep the data link emissions safe to transmit? What if an enemy for a data link detector?
Interesting comment.
Multiple Typhoons or Gripen can detect, track and and triangulate practically any radio emissions.
Well private DCS mods isn't going to model F-22 RCS or modern F-15C radars. The latest AESA radars that F-15Cs have can detect and track F-22s at Amraam range (source: F-15 pilots and ground crew), and 3 of them datalinked would kill it even faster. These vids are fun but no basis in reality.