The Finale Hurts?!? | The Last of Us Ep 1x9 Reaction & Review | Naughty Dog on HBO Max
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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In EP 1, Marlene states she put her in FEDRA school and was not her mom in their first scene together.
Came here to say the same thing. Hope they see your comment. 😊
And it is explained in the 1st game. Marlene promised her mother to keep her safe. FEDRA would not have been my first choice but the Fireflies were a armed guerilla group so she wouldnt have been safe in their group either.
And maybe she did recruit Riley on purpose, so that she could send her away to protect Ellie. Upon recollection maybe Marlene feels ultimately responsible for Ellie's life because of her mom and her best friend's deaths and the learning of her immunity.
@@beastlydevil777 agree. Marlene perhaps understand that her Fireflies wouldn't attack FEDRA school because it is a school with kids and she has a say to it because she's the Leader of Fireflies, but FEDRA is considered fascist who know what they're gonna do if they attack Fireflies, they could possibly kill just about anyone. Also Fireflies move a lot while FEDRA stays in a relatively safe QZs.
@@EsperUltima exactly, the Fireflies are a mobile group. They dont stay in one location for too long if it doesnt benefit their mission in the long term.
Marlene and Anna being friends was in the game. BUT if you didn't scavenge through the hospital, you could easily miss it. We only find out that they had a friendship through letters Marlene writes to (deceased) Anna, as she's struggling with the decision about offing Ellie :) I think I found 2 of them, but there could potentially be more.
You are one of the very few who seem to understand the vast gulf between "successfully synthesize a cure" and "successfully immunize the world".
I do think that the ending dilemma is presented with the intention that we believe that creating the cure is possible, and that Joel seems to think it was possible. Certainly, a world with a synthesized cure is in a better place to try to recover than a world without, and I think we are intended to read Joel's actions as forcibly shifting the former possibility out of reach in order to keep Ellie alive. From a viewer perspective, the dilemma would be less of a dilemma if Joel is obviously in the right and the doctor was a hack, etc etc. So I think we can make the assumption that her death really would have contributed to successfully creating a cure. As for the 'what if' of distribution however...
The world is 20 years into societal collapse, humanity is reduced to small communities who are suspicious or outright hostile to outsiders. The promise of a cure is something that has been rumoured and disproven a hundred times over already, if Joel and Tess' reactions to the job initially are anything to go by. And Marlene's Fireflies are not a neutral force, she heads up a resistance group opposing FEDRA. There are other resistance groups, there are other groups in general from small towns, to raiders and slavers. Assuming they have the ability to create a cure from this event, and then mass produce it, in order to distribute the cure, you would have to advertise that you have a cure. And you are dead on in that raiders and slavers alike would make the Fireflies their #1 targets: either to control the cure for themselves, or to destroy its existence if they can't control it; so they can maintain their status quo.
And again, the Fireflies are not some neutral force. If they successfully test it, they'll quietly immunize their leadership, then their rank and file, before attempting to use it to strong arm remaining FEDRA enclaves and other groups into surrender. Control of the only source and distribution of cure would potentially grant them immense bargaining power and leverage. But that's only if they survive. As Marlene said, she lost half her group just making that trip to Salt Lake City. We've seen instances of well equipped Fireflies massacred before. They don't appear to be any sort of dominant regional power (Kansas City seemed more powerful just militarily), and so I doubt their ability to ward off the violent attention of god knows how many hostile groups that would come their way once the news slips out.
Finally, I agree that Ellie's final line there is an acknowledgement that she knows Joel is lying to her. Just like Marlene knew Anna was lying to her when she said she cut the umbilical before getting bitten, when we know she didn't. Anna did it because that was her baby, and if she has to lie to her oldest friend point blank to make sure her baby lives, that's what she's going to do. Joel did it because that's what he's there to do. He killed a hospital full of Fireflies to save her physically, and he lied to her face in an attempt to save her mentally. Like Bill, he found someone worth saving, and he protected them, even from themselves. Ellie seemed to have the intention of seeing that trip through to the end, and while Marlene didn't tell her she was going to die before putting her under, part of the implication is that Joel lied to her because he felt she would have said yes. And he couldn't allow that, because that would mean he failed again and he would lose a daughter again. It's absolutely a paternalistic, borderline selfish? type of response, lie to your kid so they aren't scared, so they can live on without a shadow hanging over their heads, even if you have to carry that weight and the betrayal of their trust and agency forever, because allowing otherwise means you failed as a parent.
Neil Druckmann said on the companion podcast that they had focus groups when making the game of who agreed with Joel's choice to get her out of the hospital. The answers were split 50/50 for and against Joel for those who weren't parents, and 100% for Joel for those who were parents. Unconditional love is wonderful, but we must remember it is by definition, unconditional. There was never any variation of events where Joel would have let Ellie die there, that was the parental choice.
It’s interesting that everyone is asking how did Ellie see whatever she saw, but we can clearly see what she saw as well. Before they reach the opening, we can see the giraffes through the glass and their shadows on the tarps.
The single issue I have trouble with is that 20 years later there would be no more batteries.
I know I posted this comment on other channels but
it is pretty awesome to see Ashley Johnson give birth to the same character twice.
I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT ABOUT THE FLAMETHROWER
Salt Lake City Utah.
I think one reason it flew by for game fans is because we know the story so well that we’re not anxious to see what happens next. I’ve seen show-only watchers who felt differently.
As for the infection/action debate, I think the writers are just flat out wrong that infected/action sequences are poor storytelling vehicles for TV. Look at a show like Breaking Bad, which has plenty of action and is yet considered one of the best dramas ever. Even Chernobyl has practically dialogue-free sequences of tension that adds to the overall drama (specifically I'm thinking of the scene where they have to remove the debris from that one ceiling). Saving Private Ryan is a war film steeped in action, yet still rich with character.
That's because it's not about the action itself, it's about the CHOICES characters make in those situations. For example, let's rewind to the first half of the season. If Joel had to make a risky maneuver to save Ellie, then it could convey how much he cares for her despite his words to the contrary. There were a couple of moments like that before Jackson, but a couple more could've helped build the bond just as much as the pun book.
The show is still fantastic, but it seemed to go out of its way to not acknowledge its gaming roots so as to be taken as serious adult drama. Hence, more of a focus on dialogue-driven scenes and character-building/bonding. I didn't want it to be The Walking Dead by any means, but hand-waving away the desire for more infected scenes or action sequences felt like it came from a pretty binary viewpoint about storytelling that is surprising given the pedigree of the writers and their own past projects. Still a great show, but I hope they embrace the action roots of the game a bit more in future seasons.
React to" KGF "movie
How was the hospital scene not aggressive?
Marlene sent Riely into the mall to test Ellie. Why else would a rookie get such a position? Wow, great writing.
That's not true. Riley was sent away to new post. She came to say goodbye. Watch episode 7 again.
Buc-ees merch *and* OF merch?! Nice.
I love how they used the actress from the game. If her immunity was based on her birth circumstances isnt it possible, or even probable, that someone else would have been birthed in a similar way over last 20 years? As someone who hasnt played the game, this isn't quite where I was expecting them to leave it off at. I thought that there might be a chance she would have to die for the cure. Joel assulting through the Fireflies was interestingly done. The way it was shot glorified the intent and the mindset vs the violence. After Sam turned, and saving humanity became Ellie's mission, I think she would have chosen the sacrifice. Not a fan of characters not telling people the truth in this type of situation, always feels like unnecessary tension to me. Season 2 will be interesting. While I have enjoyed the pacing, I do think they needed more more Cordyceps, either this last episode or the one before. People seem like the worst thing in the world, almost like getting a cure isn't what's holding humanity back from rebuilding. Maybe that's really what they were going for. If there were a couple in between episodes for traveling and avoiding Cordyceps. It's still in the top 3 for TV series. I think Andor and Hill House still edge it out. Andor had a similar feel, but the highs got you equally as pumped as the lows brought you down.
Wow. In episode 8 you failed to show “I got you Baby Girl.” And now for this episode you failed to show “it wasn’t time that did it.”
FAIL. TOTAL. FAIL. Kinda the whole point of the show. But, you had to make lame jokes. So, there’s that….
I think that they did the massacre see the way they did to prevent people from feeling like Joel indiscriminately killing everyone was justified or good. It just shows what Joel is want he has become. He used to only care about himself and now he only cares about Ellie. He only cares about human life as it relates to her safety. He has become simultaneously a great dad, and a terrible human being.
That's the way that I interpret it anyway.
They left him no choice. Joel did the right thing.
@ThrummerOfLove that's simplistic. Joel did what Joel was going to do. It is understandable that Joel would do what her did, but it isn't justified from any perspective other than his own. He killed people that surrendered, that very likely don't even know what is happening or why purely because there is a chance that they might try to stop him again later. From an ethical standpoint, what he did is definitely wrong. Killing people to save people is always a messy grey area, but the amount of people and the reasoning heavily skews towards immorality. There are no good guys and bad guys in the Lsat of US; there are only humans, with human motivations. Trying to see Joel or even Ellie as the good guys in the story is a category error, and it is demonstrably counter to the intention of the writers. The raiders in both games are constantly humanized, and their motives are sympathetic. Joel was himself a raider for many years. Joel didn't become a "good guy", what happened to Joel is that he found a new purpose that he is motivated to protect. He cares just as little about human life at this point of the story as he did as a raider. He isn't different or better than the fireflies that are motivated to protect what they care about. It isn't a story of good and evil, it is simply humans being humans. If Joel had yo shoot an innocent child to save Ellie, he would. He would kill someone just like Ellie for his own selfish reasons and love for her. That isn't good, it's paternal and human, but not good.
I like the minimalist nature of Joel's rampage. They didnt glamorize the violence first off but I think the directors wanted to present it as a stark choice between saving the world and saving Elli. They didnt push one side or the other.
Joel know people better, fireflies with cure just gonna be another dictatorship, they won't share the cure to all people they gonna use as bargain power. Noone can save the world, might as well Joel save who's he can save, just like Tess said in her last moment also in line with message from Bill, to protect his purpose which is ellie.
They failed tho . Alot of people still don't get how horrifying what Joel did .
@Hayder Neamah I think we do get it. It is horrifying what Joel did. And it's horrifying for a reason. What would you do...what WOULDNT you do...to save the life of someone you loved...particularly your child. (And I know Eliie isnt his child but he now sees her as such). Would you kill someone to save your kid? If it's the person threatening my child, you're damn right I would. What about someone who's just standing in your way? What about an innocent person who just got in your way? What about innocent people who arent in your way and are no threat to your child directly? It's the Trolly Problem and it makes for fascinating moral and ethical discussions. And for those of us with kids...The answer I think is pretty easy...I would let the world burn to save my kid. But then comes the next part of the discussion...What if your kid is willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good? Do I let them make that choice?
What Joel did wrong and what Marlene did wrong...was to take away Ellie's choice. The horror from Joel wasnt all the people he slaughtered. It was lying to Ellie and taking away her choice to have her life (and ultimately her death) have meaning. (And yes, she can go on to have a meaningful life and find love and happiness or whatever but that's not the point. It was her choice of whether or not to sacrifice herself). And ultimately that was the horror that Marlene was perpetrating as well...Not giving Ellie the choice to volunteer for the procedure. She seems so certain of what Ellie wanted but yet didnt trust her enough to make that decision for herself. Ultimately, both of them are no better than the cordyceps fungus that removes free will from its victims. And that's the true horror.
@@alanfoxman5291 i don't mind him saving Ellie and killing the fireflies but what he did to Ellie he wasn't saving her cause he "loves" her he just see her as a replacement for his loss "she healed him" which is fine but he goes beyond saving her and taking her choice and her future choices he make sure the doctor and Marlene dead so she has no way of changing her mind . He traps her in a relationship with no other choice and lie to her so she will never leave him to go look for them and to use her immunity for good , And she trusted him and the last scene shows how she doesn't believe him but stuck and Bella Ramsey did great job showing that ,That's why she wanted nothing to do with him in Jackson. People especially young gamers didn't get that ,They made it more obvious in the show but still some people don't see it.
They said Unforgiven is their inspiration of how they present violence where in that movie we don't see Clint Eastwood character shoot many people until the very end
The scene where Joel opens up to Ellie about his scar and how she helped him overcome his trauma was a beautiful addition. It tells us that Joel knows she has been through enough to be able to be talked to as an adult, that she would understand the weight of his attempt, it shows him finally being open and vulnerable, and it shows that Joel has convinced himself that Ellie was his purpose, almost an esoteric reason why he didn't die.
Mirrored Bill & Frank's story...Joel couldn't live without Ellie.
Marlene and Anna were friends in the game, and she'd promised Anna she'd look after her. You can also find recorders in the hospital with Marlene's voice recordings, she talks to Anna (in spirit), she's remorseful and essentially apologises to Anna. In the show, Marlene specifically states in ep 1 that she dropped her off to the orphanage because it was the best place for her
Also I might add, Marlene knew, or at leas suspected, Ellie was immune from day1. Maybe that's why she kept her alive after the mall incident. I mean, even if Anna said Ellie was ok, in a fungi pandemic you would kill the baby (and the teenager)
@@JacopoBasanisi Marlene did not know nor suspect Ellie was immune at all, until after she got bit. We know this because Ellie was held for weeks undergoing the monitoring we see in episode 1. We also know that Marlene was not the one that found her based on their introduction after the monitoring was finished. Ellie just got lucky the Fireflies that found her believed her and didn't shoot her on sight because of her infection.
@@OblivionZer0 I think Marlene did find her as she states to Ellie that she has her to thank for her men not shooting her. I think Marlene took a group of Fireflies to the mall that day to pick up Riley to take her to the Atlanta QZ and found Riley dead and Ellie bitten but not turned.
The massacre in the hospital was both aggressive and violent, but it wasn't gratuitous.
Joel turned into beast mode
Hence the muffled sounds and the slowmo
Can I just say, as a very emotional guy myself, how incredibly nice it is to see another man be openly emotionally vulnerable
Damn the loyalty to the game story is amazing. They really did great with this show. I just love the performances this episode and throughout the whole season. ❤
Well, as the show runners said, it's made by fans for fans. That's why there's so much love oozing from every detail
@@bevssabado3460 yeah, Craig Mazin is a fan of the game that's the reason why he wanted to make the adaptation. 😊
Ellie's mom is the VA who played Ellie (Ashley Johnson. Also Laura Bailey reprised her role as one of the nurses from the 1st game.
I can't wait for season 2!
Edit: Remember Marlene told Ellie that she was the one who left her with FEDRA so it makes sense that a resistance leader wouldn't want to keep a newborn in case they had to suddenly leave plus it was the safer option.
Edit 2: Isn't the giraffe theme the same music that played during the final scene with Bill and Frank?
Bella doesn't need to age up she purposely did things to look 14 xD she's the age Ellie is in the second gameeeee
Welcome. To Giraffic Park.
I'm sure 9 people will say this, but Marlene explicitly says that she is the one that put Ellie in FEDRA school as a child.
@Nerdy Nightly,
20:33 they didn't encounter an Infected, but this episode did have one. I guess I'm an odd man out, as I appreciate the focus on people rather than the Infected, as people were always the bigger threat given their ability to strategize. The Infected, when use certainly up the tension! Watch your reaction again. Watch how different you respond to scenes when Joel and Ellie encounter people versus when they encounter Infected. There's a huge difference, viewers are on the edge of their seats when an infected is on screen or heard--last week many people thought they heard one in the forest when Ellie was hunting the deer. Craig Mazin's decision to use Infected sparingly paid off big time, and will serve the story better going forward, IMHO. I don't know about you, but the zombies in the Walking Dead loss the ability to scare me a long time ago, and that's because the series flood the scenes with zombies every chance they got! I'm so happy this series is going a different direction than the norm.
This might just be the series that finally cures my addiction to reaction videos. I absolutely do not want to relive this bleak, bleak episode and this entire bleak, bleak series. It only gets darker in The Last of Us Part 2. Enjoy, everyone! I guess.
They're in Salt Lake City, not St. Louis
I love how they did the hospital scene. No big action sequence, just the ominous music as he just massacres the hospital. It really makes you feel kinda icky or conflicted and just plain uncomfortable. We’re on Joel’s but at the same time it still doesn’t feel good.
I work in pharma manufacturing, so my experience is with drugs, not vaccines. But the regulatory stuff around getting a new drug researched, approved, developed and manufactured is enormous. It takes years because there are so many ways that things can fall through, and the regulatory burden is so high (understandably so). The COVID vaccine only got produced as quickly as it did because everyone was focused on it due to the need and governments were willing to devote resources to cutting red tape. In The Last of Us you'd need a large enough pool of people to test it, which alone is hard enough given that most of the human race has died. You also need clean maintained manufacturing facilities, all of which have likely lingered for 20 years and would take a lot to get back online if they could work at all. You'd need things like cleaning agents to clean the equipment and rooms, ingredients to make the vaccine, supplies (vials, cartons) to bottle them in, employees who are trained enough to be able to manufacture it and QA test it. It all seems impossible. Then, to top it all off, if it's an injectable vaccine (which seems likely), it needs to be a sterile manufacturing environment, which is basically a clean room. I've no idea how you would do that in a world like The Last of Us, let alone do it at a scale required to immunize the remaining population of humans. The fireflies are also likely to be choosy about who they distribute the vaccine to. Marlene says that it will help "all of humanity", but would they really share with Fedra employees or sympathizers? Or anyone outside their organization for that matter? I'm not sure.
Another thing that really bothered me is that Marlene never got informed consent from Ellie. Everyone says that Joel took away her agency to choose, but Marlene did as well. Informed consent is a major pillar of medical care. She should have been told what the procedure entailed and that she would die from it and allowed to agree to it. Instead, Marlene assumed that she would agree and rushed her to surgery. Ellie didn't even know she was drugged. It's messed up.
Many people try to simplify the solution to the final conflict, by saying "just let Ellie choose". This completely ignores the fact that:
1) Ellie is a child
2) She is struggling with SURVIVOR'S GUILT, not necessarily in a healthy mindset.
3) Joel doesn't TRUST the Fireflies (for a variety of reasons). They are undeserving of being the beneficiaries of Ellie's gift.
4) There is no "choice" to be made. "Save yourself or save the world" is NOT a choice. It's a burden. No child deserves that kind of burden for a world they didn't create.
Children are people with their own rights just like anyone else. It was her choice to make in the end and both Marlene and Joel took it from her. By your criteria, Joel is also untrustworthy and undeserving of keeping Ellie with him given his deeply selfish actions (lying about the entire incident).
Bella is 19 years old atm so...she doesn't need to age up too much more for a time jump. The rest can be handled with minor makeup I think. Marlene told Ellie in Ep 1 she was the person who dropped the "orphan" at FEDRA school which is where most orphans went, to keep her safe.
The season has been incredible at telling powerful emotional stories. The show has not missed a beat this entire season.
I can NOT wait for Part II to kick off....first game is a masterpiece, but Part II kicks it up a notch
Good to see a fellow Part 2 fan, I'm just worried about the harassment that will inevitably fall on the actors involved, when the haters see that there will be no rewrite of the second game's story for the show, like I've seen so many wishing in comments, it'll be that whole shitshow from the game's launch again.
Totally agree, people who bash part 2 don’t realise that the whole point is that the game is challenging you on wether you can grow to care about Abby, and not everyone is going to be able to do that (just like Ellie). Just like the first game with Joel saving Ellie, part 2 aims to have you debate wether Ellie is still in the right to go after Abby by the end of the game by telling you her story. TLOU1 is about a hardened and broken man (and not a good man btw) reopening his heart to love, but TLOU2 is a revenge story with no happy ending.
I will die on my hill that I believe TLOU2 is even better than the already brilliant original.
But jesus I feel awful for whoever is brave enough to play Abby, and would suggest they stay off of social media for a good few years
@@Spud1210 I have found my people
@@Henrique-wv9xq @spud1210 I actually don't think the backlash will be as bad(if any at all). A large chunk of gamers are a..."special"...kind of fan. Intensely loyal and also the worst of humanity all at the same time haha
@@xxfutureisnowxx Oh I agree, I think TV audiences will be more tame, but the ones that hated the game still hate it with a passion to this day, even if the backlash isn't as bad, I'm still sorry for whoever ends up playing Abby.
Those mountains are in alberta canada.
The show was filmed up here in my canada 🇨🇦
The hospital scenes were filmed in an abandoned one due for demolition in Grande Prarie, Alberta.
Marlene and Anna being friends and her bringing Ellie into the Boston QZ is cannon with the game. But you only get this information from a note Anna left Ellie and in game recordings as well as episode 1.
They talked about Marlene putting her in the Fedra orphanage when she was a baby back in episode 1. She tells Ellie that
Fedra is basically "the government", so it make sense they had schools, Firefly would probably die at random, not the best environment
@6:14 - No. Marlene reached out to Ellie's friend and had initiated her into joining the Fireflies.
joel started to think of ellie as his daughter in this episode and as a result (being a parent myself) i can tell you joel did exactly what a parent would do you would do anything no matter the cost to protect your child, and now for joel Ellie is as good as his child and when marlene decided ellie was to die joel just could not let that happen ! Fantastic episode and fantastic season cannot wait for next season.
Joel know people better, fireflies with cure just gonna be another dictatorship, they won't share the cure to all people they gonna use as bargain power. Noone can save the world, might as well Joel save who's he can save, just like Tess said in her last moment also in line with message from Bill, to protect his purpose which is ellie.
I mean...in Episode 2 the mycologist tells them to bomb Jakarta and everyone in it, including her family (and that presumably included her kids and perhaps grandkids). With around 10 million people in Jakarta, that is a lot of "Ellies" to die in those bombings. With this show I hear a lot of "all parents would..." but, as a parent myself, I have no idea what I would do if I lived in the show's universe.
nah im sorry not every parent would do that. just look at how many parents beat or do worse to their child because they are gay or trans. not every parent loves their child or is able to express that in a healthy way.
and also if you have multiple children and only one is immune and you can save the two others.. and you child wants to save them.. what will you do?
I'm fairly sure it's not intentional but the way Ashley yells Marlene! with the emphasis on the N at the end like MarlEEENuh was the same as the way Bella said Booonesuh describing the mortal combat fatality. :) Marleenuh and Boonesus :)
I’d love to see a ratio of reaction videos comparing how many Nerdy has cried at vs how many Claroos has cried at. My estimate is like 30:1
That one Sandman episode?
@@Andjelka99 Sandman might have been peak Claroos crying reactions
I was thinking about finding a cure in the apocalypse very doubtful. Especially if your first foray into synthesizing a cure is speculative nonsense that kills the only person you know is immune. Here is what, small steps, find out how she is actually immune, see if that immunity is transferable, see if it requires actually killing the patient. Are we even sure Ellie isn't a carrier, in that it doesn't affect her, but for all intents and purposes, she is essentially an infected that hasn't lost its mind. For all we know, Cordyceps Ellie might just be the Typhoid Mary of the infected. We essentially have only seen her bite one person and broke their skin, and she cleavered him to death shortly afterwards. Could her bite be just as infectious?
And for the sake of argument, I am not entirely sure giving the Fireflies the cure is the best alternative. These are a people who have resorted to terroristic acts trying to overthrow FEDRA. How do we know just how altruistic they are? They may become the next FEDRA, in that they would control the opportunities to get the cure. What is to stop them from not distributing the cure only to like minded individuals who happen to believe in the Fireflies creed. And all others needn't apply.
Also, I am sure Ellie knows Joel lied to her, but she trusts him enough that he would only do that to protect her. That something was going down and by taken Ellie away from the fireflies, it was really Joel's only option.
Marlene probably took Ellie to FEDRA because they controlled the baby formula & hospitals. If no firefly could feed a newborn, what else could she do?
Joel actually made the correct decision, even though vaccine technology is pretty advanced NOW we still do not have any vaccines for fungal virus's so its highly unlikely they would have suceeded with Ellie
A lot of other reviews said Ellie would have given her life if the choice was given. I say no, at the beginning of the episode she said she would go anywhere with Joel afterwards, she did say no half measures, but she expected to be with Joel afterwards. So it’s not a given and I believe not probable that she would have agreed.
Hope yah guys react to the making too, confirms the giraffe real 😁 "It was made BY fans FOR fans"
they wouldn't let Ellie have a choice - they want her brain, they will take it - don't care if kid agrees or disagrees (Ellie didn't think they were going to end her - she said she'd go with Joel after they were done, but she probably would've said yes)
fireflies would take people prisoner and do the messenger tests on them
and they most likely would fail, not even with all our advanced medical technology today do they have a vaccine for fungal virus's the experts say it will eventually occur but not for a while
I have difficulty with the doctor’s choice to cut out her brain on day 1! Cutting someone’s brain out should never be the first choice, there is at least a hundred different other things you try first. Also there had to be way more testing before the surgery should happen! Not to mention, what if whatever they want goes dormant or dead the minute it no longer has a live host. The doctor was a moron who deserved what he got. Everyone else though… well those poor people.
Agreed. It kinda bothers me too that the doctor went from zero to a 100. "Hey, here's the one human in existence that we know is immune. Let's kill her right away and study a corpse". It makes no sense. Other than that, I loved the finale, though I still think the season would have benefitted from at least on more Joel-Ellie centric episode. Or maybe that's just me wanting more 😅
@@ranialian8537 I think it would have been better to have a few months time jump here, where there has been extensive tests done and Joel and Ellie were lulled into a sense of security and Ellie had maybe already gone in for a bunch of procedures like a biopsy or a spinal tap so they didn't think anything of it and then Joel finds out and does what he does. It would make more sense that way.
@@Arezoo298195 in the game it’s meant to show how incompetent the fire flies where
5:50 In episode 1 Marlene tells Ellie she wasa the one to put her in the Fedra orphanage.
"What are you my mother or something?"
"Do I look like your mother?"
If you ever go the the Calgary zoo look for Nabo, he was the Giraffe used for that scene
OMFG.... DEAD!!!! 🤣🤣😅😂😅14:26
To me that's certainly the point, the progression through the hospital and massacre is meant to be cold-blooded and absolutely chilling (not heroic and thrilling). Adds weight to the moral complexity of Joel's actions.
What Joel made very clear in this episode is that he would do anything to prevent having his heart crushed again and torn from his chest. Unless you experienced loss in the same manner as Joel did with Sarah you could never fully understand what motivated him in that hospital, which I fear went somewhere beyond just love for Ellie. Joel in essence recovered a part of himself that he had lost so long ago and he's intent on never letting it go EVER again, if he can help it anyway. For 20 years, Joel has just been existing and once he met Ellie he actually began living again; so ask yourself, if you were Joel could you just give that up to go back to how you were?
No. If I had been asked this before I had kids yes but now I would 100% make tbe same decision Joel did. Is it selfish? Absolutely but reliving thst pain would be to much.
You guys should rewatch ep1. Marlene tells ellie she was the one Who put ellie i fedra school
The thing with Bella aging tho it’s weird cause she is like 20 years old so how much different can she look from 20-21 or 22 years old , game Ellie did get a lot taller and just all around looked older , but still Bella will be fine for season 2 they’ll make it work
Ashley Johnson played Ellie in the game and Ellie’s mom in the series and had Ellie’s knife. Marlene is best friends with Ellie’s mom. Giraffe is real. Damn drs and fireflies not telling Ellie she’s not going to survive the procedure. Joel had to lie to Ellie. They went back to Tommy’s town.
The Ellie and Marlene story was started in the first episode. Marlene told Ellie that she was the one who had turned her over to FEDRA to raise.
Thanks for sharing your reaction! You played the game but probably failed to find the last recording that was in the hospital, of Marlene talking to Anna postmortem (so more a soliloquy), apologizing to her. They HAVE been best friends ever since before Ellie was even born.
In the show finale, Marlene took newborn Ellie to Boston and left her with FEDRA, THE ONLY TRULY SAFE PLACE TO LEAVE A BABY, guaranteeing her protection and training her to fight to ensure she can protect herself. FEDRA probably didn’t yet know Marlene was Firefly, or one of her agents left Ellie at FEDRA’s doorstep.
Also since you missed it there’s the parallel of Ellie having to kill her best friend after being bit, and Marlene having to kill HER best friend after being bit.
As a parent: Joel did nothing wrong. Period. The instinct to protect your child (or step into a parental/protector role over a kid's safety) is *so* intensely and deeply instinctual, just... embedded inside of you - you would literally kill people with your bare hands to get to and protect and safeguard them from harm.
Actually, he did make one mistake: he left those two nurses alive. Just saying, if it were me, NO ONE would have lived through that sweep and clear - especially ones that have seen her face and know her name ffs! I feel like Joel should have definitely eliminated those two. Loose ends like that are something I feel like his character would have never in a million years allowed to live.
And if anyone wants to go with the 'they were unarmed nurses' defense - come on, man! They were going to kill a non consenting 14 year old girl! Oooh HELL NO! They would have cost me two more bullets just for that alone on my way out.
I said what I said.
The only thing that truly bothered me was that Marlene and the rest of the fireflies never asked Ellie what she would have wanted to do. Yet even if they had, she's a traumatized girl that wouldn't have been in a stable mental state to even grant her consent to begin with. She just hacked a sicko would be r*pist into hamburger helper with a butcher knife they planned to fillet her with to freaking EAT her! She was clearly struggling with that trauma in this finale. The trickery of it all just made my blood boil.
Plus, the flash bang grenade thrown at an obvious father/daughter just walking down the road, having a laugh?!
These were not 'good' people. All of that put together just sucks the grey area right out of his decision, for me personally.
(For context: I'm a gamer, but I never played the game and had little to no knowledge beyond 'there's a guy named Joel and a girl named Ellie and it's some kind of dystopian apocalyptic situation' I only took in the content so far as the show delivered it - and it ended up being a really great story with awesomely talented actors performing their asses off in every 👏single👏 scene!👏)
Can't wait for the next season! Please don't spoil it for the rest of us! 😂
The intro reminded me so much of the Blood Snow intro to that Wheel of Time episode for some reason... I just can't put my finger on it. They were both amazing and had topnotch acting and cinematography!
I had the same thought as well. Both openings are pregnant women in hard times being badasses. Both give birth to babies that eventually could save the world.
For those who didn't, I'd highly recommend loading up an Ellie section in the game and open her backpack and look through and read through the items in her backpacks.👍
My guy, Marlene literally told Ellie she put her in a FEDRA school. I know it's been 7 weeks but you gotta keep up.
Non game player here. I really liked the heavy silence in the hospital battle scene. It takes it out of the "fun" of a combat sequence you get in a game. Serious and melancholy.
The medical ethics are clear they shouldn't be killing Ellie for this. The doctor just has a theory and Ellie is 14.
I had no problem with Joel killing Marlene and I don't even know the specifics of how upset he still is about Tommy. Aka "turned my brother against me".
I would not have thought to go back when his first shot didn't kill her but his reasoning was correct. I was married to a military member and know many. Joel is pretty standard in his combat behavior - the medical attending were unarmed but the surgeon threatened him and he took out every person with a gun.
Another channel quoted a study about a survey on the game. Parents agreed with Joel's actions while non-parents were divided.
Joel know people better, fireflies with cure just gonna be another dictatorship, they won't share the cure to all people they gonna use as bargain power. Noone can save the world, might as well Joel save who's he can save, just like Tess said in her last moment also in line with message from Bill, to protect his purpose which is ellie.
So parents are cool with their kids living in a hellscape? The Great Meteor can’t come soon enough.
@@tananario Kids have been living and surviving in hellscapes for thousands of years. And Joel very much knew that Tommy didn't live in a hellscape, but a quite functioning town. He knew that this town was waiting for Ellie and him.
I dont think we can justify joel actions and it was selfish.
@@damienb8568 They wanted to kill a child, of course he was justified. No laws of today would allow this killing and it would be generally seen as immoral to do it. In the world of TLOU there are no laws.
Go back to around 32:33 in the show and tell me you saw the one person that Joel didnt actually kill getting away was also the only one completely in the shadows so you couldnt see their face and the only one with backpack and a long single braid.... 👀🤔
Lets gooooooo
Can noone study the medical books and gain the skills that the dead surgeon had? Given nothing else to do on earth, seems possible to figure out the cure without Abby's dad.
I'm here for the critical role discussion. how far are you into i'm assuming the first campaign? also, marlene put her in fedra school because she knew that is where she was safest.
Trivia fact: Ashley Johnson and Leonardo DiCaprio was on the same TV sitcom back in the early 90’s called Growing Pains.
Marlene put Ellie in the FEDRA orphanage/school knowing they would take care of her - Marlene explained that to Ellie in the first episode.
I agree that Marlene had observed Ellie througout her growth and indeed wanted to separate Riley from Ellie to ensure Riley did not influence Ellie before Marlene was ready for Ellie to leave FEDRA.
It's been a great journey with you covering this series. I look forward to your future content.
And explain how she got to the point that she could give Ellie away for a cure. She didn't REALLY raised Ellie, if she had expend one day with her for real like Joel did she would never do it.
But again, that's why it's an amazing story. She acted exactly like she would.
God, I love you two!❤️
Marlene said FEDRA school was the safest place to put Ellie and it wasn’t until she got bit and I’m presuming Marlene or another firefly went to the mall and found Ellie and her dead friend.
Ellie has less of a connection to Marlene than Marlene has will Ellie.
Yep they addressed this in episode 1.
At "Are you my mother or sg?!" scene.
Why cut out the time heals all part?
The feel of... "it is succ" Clarus said. Is the same of feeling Empty, maybe? I felt like that since the momento i saw the ep. Dont get me wrong. I loved the ep and the season itself. But i wasnt expecting exactly this. My english is not THAT good, hope it's clear.
I don't know if Ellie's immunity was from her mom getting bit just before giving birth or because she used the knife she killed the zombie with to cut the cord, either way, it likely acted like a vax & sort of gave her just enough of it to build immunity...
The baby was actually a set of newborn twins, the giraffe is from the Calgary Zoo
ruclips.net/video/C1Lt9lxWiLw/видео.html She saw the giraffe through the sandblasted windows 🙂
How did you leave out "I guess time heals all wounds" "it wasn't time".
The 🦒 music is the same music from that moment in the game. I appreciated that detail.
The girraffic park 🥲
People asking how she knows he is lying -
Remember when ellie asks joel did you kill innocent people he didn't answer the question & just stayed quiet.
Here also when she asks is marlean ok? he did the same thing.
marlene ended up being the most stupid character for me. all of this could have been avoided by TELLING ellie what's what, and for her to decide, cause u know she would have been like, "yeah, its what has to be done." and if marlene didnt tell her cause she didnt want conflict, all she would have need to say was "for riley"
and then instead of treating joel as a hostage, SINCE U KNOW WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE DOES, all u needed was to bring ellie to tell joel what's what. and yeah i would have been sad as fuck, but joel would have understood it coming from ellie herself. *ta daaa, thats how u solve a conflict. *
but instead u do this in the most shady way, and make two ARMED idiots to take joel outside... leader of the fireflies my ass.
Exactly 😭😭 Marlene really had it coming tbh lmao
My oldest son was watching this with me and he asked me "if we (either him or my other children) were Ellie, would you do what Joel is doing for one of us?"
Many knew the story before watching. This portrayal still pulled you into every moment and held you there…grounded. The show didn’t allow us to lose our suspension of disbelief. The giraffes are a perfect moment, because until then, Ellie is deep in the trauma of the journey, punctuated by barely surviving an attempted rape. Joel was trying to reach her, but she was still understandably adrift in a fugue. His scar story reached her a bit, but the giraffes were a much needed reminder of innocence.
Bella is 19. I think they could make her look aged
Is 1 of the nurses Laura Bailey from critical role?
"holy fuck! Just say Hi!" 🤣🤣 EXACTLY!!
Marlene told us in episode 1 that she put Ellie in FEDRA school. I would imagine it's because that was the safest option, despite her opposite stance Marlene is smart enough to recognize that they were the most protected of the citizens.
What I find so interesting about Marlene saying she's the only other person who understands is that she thinks she does. She hasn't been raising Ellie. She hasn't been protecting Ellie. She's not been there at all. She hasn't become that child's parent. That love doesn't exist. In concept she understands, but on a core level she has no idea. Does she care for Ellie? Absolutely. Is she probably right Ellie would have chosen to sacrifice herself? 100%. But she did the exact same thing Joel does and doesn't actually give Ellie the choice. The difference is that Marlene is driven by duty, not love. Her duty to the many. It kind of makes Marlene the realest "hero" we have in this show. She genuinely thinks about the many. Is she right? Honestly, probably. But that's not the way the majority of humanity works and for a TV show (and game) it's the lesser interesting route and the option that really makes you confront your own decision making. And that's terrifying.
The vaccine would work, Neil Druckmann had already stated that it would work in the context of the game, and they also made it a bit clearer in the show that it would work and they'd certainly attempt to distribute the vaccine to as many people as possible at the very least.
Either way tho, the point of the ending is that Joel saves Ellie for himself and for Ellie regardless of whether it was going to work or not. There's no right or wrong in this situation, just different perspectives. It's completely understandable from Joel's perspective, and it's also understandable from Marlene's perspective, tho she absolutely should've let Ellie make the choice.
Also, mini Part II spoiler:
Joel also states at the very beginning of the game that "They were actually gonna make a cure", so he certainly believed it. And the show version of Joel also stated in ep 6 that Marlene is no fool, and that if she believes it can work, it will. Another spoiler is that Ellie can't infect other people, as we find out in Part II
There have NEVER been any successful fungus Vaccines. However, We already have effective anti-fungal medicines such as Diflucan.
@@thrummer1953 That's irrelevant, it was gonna work within the context of this fictional story. And again, as I said, that's not the point of the ending anyway
@@jaysundae If that is true, then they should have kept out the extraneous stuff. But speaking of the context of the Story, how do You explain the Television show at the beginning where the expert says that it was impossible to make medicines or vaccines? Remember? That is part of the context as well.
@@thrummer1953 of course, but she also said it wasn't possible for cordyceps to infect humans. And they didn't have any research on humans. Plenty of scientists have also said plenty of things weren't possible in the past IRL only for the scientists to eventually find a cure for something. At one point, no one thought the Earth was a sphere and that it revolved around the sun, or that we're a tiny speck of dust in the vastness of the universe. Time changes things, there's always a new discovery.
AGAIN, that isn't the point of the ending at all, idk why people are so hung up on the vaccine argument lol. Point is they've been setting up Joel's character arc this entire season to lead up to this moment, and a lot of us understand it 'cause a lot of us would do the same for the people we love
@@jaysundae Didn't She also claim that the Vaccine would fool the cordyceps into thinking people were already infected and therefore they wouldn't be attacked?
You need to watch episode one again. All of your explanations about Anna and Marlene’s relationship are explained there.
Like "Blade."
14:26 lmaooo ah the good old FLAME THROWER
How Ellie ended up with fedra is explained in ep 1
Epic end to an epic season, can't wait for season 2, I want to see where it goes after that ending
Abby killing Joel with a GOLF club because Niel is a sackless coward and therefore decided to pander to the LGBT community.
Me too. I'm waiting for the golf competition
"What would you do for 'love'... specifically for the 'love' of a child?"
~ THE Fundamental Question posed by this episode... and this series...
Great reaction!
Ashley Johnson is a treasure, and we need a cameo of Laura Bailey too in the second season, i don care the haters...
Laura had a cameo in this episode aswell
@@brandonokeeffe1193 Yeah I know, but let's be honest, I talk about something with a little more reverence, a la Ashley. And I know many hate the character that she portrays, but if they are going to follow the story arc of the sequel, it seems to me that it is worth paying respect to the other Critter in the franchise
@@andresfelipemanjarres7061 the whole cast has parts in the games, Travis has probably the next biggest part after Laura and Ashley, would be cool to see them all in the coming seasons when they cover part 2 events
Thanks, Nerdy! Thanks, Clarus! 🧟♀ #NerdyNightly #TheLastOfUs #TLOU #TheLastOfUsHBO
I wanna ask everyone the comments a question Troy Baker asked Ashley Johnson in the podcast: Do you believe that Ellie saying "okay" is her believing the lie or accepting the lie?
Accepting.
Marlene was most likely in both camps at the time period that Anna gave birth.
She was probably running the fireflies from inside fedra at the time.
That is why ellie got with fedra military school.
The best place to keep an orphan safe was with Fedra and not with the firefly leader who is considered a criminal element. Marlene made a good choice for Ellie.