That's so cool. I'm still getting major chills when listening to this soundtrack or just thinking about OW in general, even months after i've completed it. It truly is a once in a lifetime experience
The sun station was also the part of the game where cause and effect reverses itself. Throughout the game you are led to believe that the time loops were causing the sun to explode and that the sun station was the cause. When you finally get there though, you find it’s the opposite. The world isn’t ending because you are in the time loop. You are in the time loop because the world ended.
If the sun station would have been successful, this mechanism wouldn’t have triggered. Their original plan was: 1. make sun explode 2. the sun exploding initiates the time loop for the probe only 3. once the eye has been found, activate statues for other people so they can prevent the sun station from going off. 4. after preventing the sun station from going off, shut it down permanently and go to the eye.
Personally, I believe that the track being reversed represents how the sun station marks the first monumental failure for the nomai. They were prepared to cause a supernova, they fired the sun station in belief that everything would work. After all, you can't blow up the sun as a test if the ash twin project isn't active. The writing about the sun station failing is sad. The normally optimistic nomai have nothing left to cling on to, one joking about how they could find a way to halt their ageing process.
I feel like they could have, if they didn't get annihilated by the comet. They could have exploited the lack of time near the eye on the quantum moon for instance
@@ConsumerOfCringe I think a big part of the narrative of the Nomai of this system is that for all their efforts to understand the universe, they could do nothing to control their fate, their entire world came to an end in an instant. You can't overcome that, you can't prepare for that, you can't prolong it. It just happens, one day, and then it's over, the final point at the end of your civilisation's sentence. It's the same as the Hearthians growing as a species until they're finally exploring space, just in time to find that the universe is coming to an end. Your time comes, and it's over, that's all you get. I'm afraid the Quantum Moon is also not the salvation you think it is. The one remaining explorer is long long long dead in five out of six possible quantum states, and in the other is alive in a brief moment that has lasted two hundred thousand years. That's not survival, that's finding a loophole in reality that it's impossible to work with. In universe, perhaps the Nomai could have done something to send the Interloper away, but by the time they see it it's already hurtling towards the sun with its payload. By the time they might know that it's dangerous, it's far too late to do anything about it. It's too late for them to even tell anybody. Maybe there is one thing they could have done to survive the ghost matter incident, maybe. There is something they could have tried if they knew in advance what was happening, and had time to get to safety, and knew specific information that isn't even told to the player but is left implied for us to test out ourselves. Ghost matter has no effect in water. So if they had developed some kind of aquatic society in the beneaths of Timber Hearth and Giant's Deep, maybe they could have survived. Or maybe they would have died anyway because the stuff would still be so prevalent in their times (given that it is literally everywhere) that they would have been unable to ever surface.
@@ConsumerOfCringe Time continues to march, even on the Sixth Location. We know this because you are still trapped within the cycle, and the Ash Twin Project still transmits your consciousness at the end of 22 minutes. For Solanum however, it is different - she was simultaneously killed by an extinction event in five of six locations due to the Quantum Moon, and without any living observers she became quantum, and so no longer experiences time in any conventional manner. But if the Nomai were to exploit this, they would only find themselves trapped in space and time on the Sixth Location just like Solanum is, unable to escape, until observed again somehow.
@@TheZombiesAreComing what Toby does is use leitmotifs in various tracks, which is different from sampling a track itself. The only time I can think of Toby doing this is the “but nobody came” track being the battle music slowed down. However, Andrew phralow does use leitmotifs like the “travelers” theme, as well as the track “morning”.
I personally think it's not necessary the nomai's values that are being inverted, but their goals. The search sounds hopeful, like theres a grand discovery just around the corner. But the sun station's theme is defeat. The nomai will never be able to complete their project, and the player could never save the world. It's over. That hope is gone, inverted, and replaced with despair.
I know it's three years ago that you posted this, but it really strikes home with me. The Hearthian has been following in the footsteps of the Nomaians for their entire journey, but with slightly differing motivations; not simply to find the eye-though that must still be an intriguing question for the Hearthian-but to save themselves, their people, and their home. On the sun station, the Hearthian discovers the very same thing the Nomai did hundreds of thousands of years ago, in the very same place, but with a different context: That the achievement they believed they were chasing, that they were perhaps on the very cusp of, was a mirage; impossible to achieve all along. Thus, they must both stop and reevaluate the newly-diminished possibilities before them. For the Nomai and the Hearthian both, this meant the end, though the Hearthian at least could face that end with some agency.
One small correction: the OPC and ATP are not separate "attempts" at finding the eye, but part of the same one, their second and ultimately successful attempt at finding the eye, even if one of it's components didn't function correctly.
@@Dan0RG Every loop, the OPC fires in a different random direction. It uses one of the ATP 'save slots' to keep track of everywhere the probe has hit. Once it succesfully hit the Eye, it sent a signal to the ATP, telling it to begin the memory looping routine. This is why even on the very first loop, the first time the OPC ever fires a probe from your perspective, it has already gone through millions of launches and already found the eye's coordinates.
@@crystallineAurora Thanks, I know that. I'm just saying that, as far as I can tell, the author of the video never stated that the OPC and the ATP were separate attempts at finding the Eye. They mention that the ATP is "their third attempt at finding the Eye", which makes sense to me with the first one being the locator on the Attlerock and the second one being the Southern Observatory. I guess they saw the observatory and the cannon mentioned in the previous sentence and assumed that the author made a mistake when they didn't.
@@Dan0RG oh, i see. I misunderstood your statement as asking "when did the Nomai say that they were the same project", rather than what you were actually asking, "when did OP say that they were different". my apologies, thank you for clarifying.
I actually recently realised that the Sun Station track had those reverse notes but too lazy to reverse it myself, thanks! That's a pretty good theory you've made regarding that as well
I feel like all it means is that the failure of the sun station ultimately ended up being the one thing that set them back, and consequently lead to their downfall. After this they were unable to save their species in that 22 minute loop, they were never able to reach the eye, and soon became destroyed by The Interloper and its ghost matter. Essentially, this was the only point in Nomai history that sent them backwards.
The writing in ash twin core implies that the interloper entered the system pretty soon after the sun station failed, when the core of the interloper opens the whole systems floods with ghost matter, killing everything. This was infact, the only chance for the Nomai to save the sm selves. (If the sun station worked, the ghost matter from the interloper wouldn’t have killed them)
Yeah the Nomai were never able to get into the 22 minute loop, but that would've been their only way of surviving The Interloper if the Sun Station had worked. They would've had to repeat those last 22 minutes of their species' life over and over in order to find a solution to their impending doom. But alas, the Sun Station failed and they were never given this option.
Nomai never looped. Right after they realized the sun station didn’t work, they went to explore the Interloper. They were killed by the ghost matter soon after, their work unfinished. It’s only a coincidence that we happen to fall into the time loop as the sun explodes at the end of its life cycle
@@spoofilybeloved6729 I don't think its a coincidence that we fall into a time loop due to the sun, since the sun exploding is the only way to make the time loop in the first place, its more of a coincidence that we managed to look at the statue before the events of the sun.
I have yet to be able to properly describe the incredibleness that is this game. It’s an incredible experience and let me know that games can still surprise me and make me feel wonder and excitement. It’s my #1 game of all time and I don’t see it being supplanted
this video couldn't be more spot-on when talking about the relationship of both tracks. one of many secrets hidden within the music.
That's so cool. I'm still getting major chills when listening to this soundtrack or just thinking about OW in general, even months after i've completed it. It truly is a once in a lifetime experience
Just another reason why this entire soundtrack (and game) is a masterpiece.
What else have you hidden? 👀
@@JaredJeyaretnam I think he wants us to find out
I'm onto you, Andrew!
The sun station was also the part of the game where cause and effect reverses itself. Throughout the game you are led to believe that the time loops were causing the sun to explode and that the sun station was the cause. When you finally get there though, you find it’s the opposite.
The world isn’t ending because you are in the time loop. You are in the time loop because the world ended.
If the sun station would have been successful, this mechanism wouldn’t have triggered. Their original plan was: 1. make sun explode 2. the sun exploding initiates the time loop for the probe only 3. once the eye has been found, activate statues for other people so they can prevent the sun station from going off. 4. after preventing the sun station from going off, shut it down permanently and go to the eye.
Personally, I believe that the track being reversed represents how the sun station marks the first monumental failure for the nomai. They were prepared to cause a supernova, they fired the sun station in belief that everything would work. After all, you can't blow up the sun as a test if the ash twin project isn't active. The writing about the sun station failing is sad. The normally optimistic nomai have nothing left to cling on to, one joking about how they could find a way to halt their ageing process.
I feel like they could have, if they didn't get annihilated by the comet.
They could have exploited the lack of time near the eye on the quantum moon for instance
@@ConsumerOfCringe I think a big part of the narrative of the Nomai of this system is that for all their efforts to understand the universe, they could do nothing to control their fate, their entire world came to an end in an instant. You can't overcome that, you can't prepare for that, you can't prolong it. It just happens, one day, and then it's over, the final point at the end of your civilisation's sentence. It's the same as the Hearthians growing as a species until they're finally exploring space, just in time to find that the universe is coming to an end. Your time comes, and it's over, that's all you get.
I'm afraid the Quantum Moon is also not the salvation you think it is. The one remaining explorer is long long long dead in five out of six possible quantum states, and in the other is alive in a brief moment that has lasted two hundred thousand years. That's not survival, that's finding a loophole in reality that it's impossible to work with. In universe, perhaps the Nomai could have done something to send the Interloper away, but by the time they see it it's already hurtling towards the sun with its payload. By the time they might know that it's dangerous, it's far too late to do anything about it. It's too late for them to even tell anybody.
Maybe there is one thing they could have done to survive the ghost matter incident, maybe. There is something they could have tried if they knew in advance what was happening, and had time to get to safety, and knew specific information that isn't even told to the player but is left implied for us to test out ourselves. Ghost matter has no effect in water. So if they had developed some kind of aquatic society in the beneaths of Timber Hearth and Giant's Deep, maybe they could have survived. Or maybe they would have died anyway because the stuff would still be so prevalent in their times (given that it is literally everywhere) that they would have been unable to ever surface.
@@ConsumerOfCringe Time continues to march, even on the Sixth Location. We know this because you are still trapped within the cycle, and the Ash Twin Project still transmits your consciousness at the end of 22 minutes.
For Solanum however, it is different - she was simultaneously killed by an extinction event in five of six locations due to the Quantum Moon, and without any living observers she became quantum, and so no longer experiences time in any conventional manner. But if the Nomai were to exploit this, they would only find themselves trapped in space and time on the Sixth Location just like Solanum is, unable to escape, until observed again somehow.
everyone: this must have some kind of deeper meaning!
Andrew Phralow making two tracks out of one: s t o n k s
"making two tracks out of one"
Toby Fox has achieved similar with Undertale
@@TheZombiesAreComing what Toby does is use leitmotifs in various tracks, which is different from sampling a track itself. The only time I can think of Toby doing this is the “but nobody came” track being the battle music slowed down. However, Andrew phralow does use leitmotifs like the “travelers” theme, as well as the track “morning”.
I personally think it's not necessary the nomai's values that are being inverted, but their goals. The search sounds hopeful, like theres a grand discovery just around the corner. But the sun station's theme is defeat. The nomai will never be able to complete their project, and the player could never save the world. It's over. That hope is gone, inverted, and replaced with despair.
I know it's three years ago that you posted this, but it really strikes home with me. The Hearthian has been following in the footsteps of the Nomaians for their entire journey, but with slightly differing motivations; not simply to find the eye-though that must still be an intriguing question for the Hearthian-but to save themselves, their people, and their home.
On the sun station, the Hearthian discovers the very same thing the Nomai did hundreds of thousands of years ago, in the very same place, but with a different context: That the achievement they believed they were chasing, that they were perhaps on the very cusp of, was a mirage; impossible to achieve all along. Thus, they must both stop and reevaluate the newly-diminished possibilities before them. For the Nomai and the Hearthian both, this meant the end, though the Hearthian at least could face that end with some agency.
One small correction: the OPC and ATP are not separate "attempts" at finding the eye, but part of the same one, their second and ultimately successful attempt at finding the eye, even if one of it's components didn't function correctly.
When did they say that they were?
@@Dan0RG Every loop, the OPC fires in a different random direction. It uses one of the ATP 'save slots' to keep track of everywhere the probe has hit. Once it succesfully hit the Eye, it sent a signal to the ATP, telling it to begin the memory looping routine. This is why even on the very first loop, the first time the OPC ever fires a probe from your perspective, it has already gone through millions of launches and already found the eye's coordinates.
@@crystallineAurora Thanks, I know that. I'm just saying that, as far as I can tell, the author of the video never stated that the OPC and the ATP were separate attempts at finding the Eye. They mention that the ATP is "their third attempt at finding the Eye", which makes sense to me with the first one being the locator on the Attlerock and the second one being the Southern Observatory. I guess they saw the observatory and the cannon mentioned in the previous sentence and assumed that the author made a mistake when they didn't.
@@Dan0RG oh, i see. I misunderstood your statement as asking "when did the Nomai say that they were the same project", rather than what you were actually asking, "when did OP say that they were different". my apologies, thank you for clarifying.
@@crystallineAurora Nah, it's my fault for being ambiguous rather than just getting straight to the point. It's all good.
I actually recently realised that the Sun Station track had those reverse notes but too lazy to reverse it myself, thanks! That's a pretty good theory you've made regarding that as well
I listen to this OST all the time and I've always wondered why The Search sounded so different to all of the other tracks. This is brilliant
Also, if you rewind the sun station music, it sounds the same but there's a piano melody
Fucjing Genius, I love everything about this game shoutouts to Andrew Prahlow for this amazing soundtrack.
I feel like all it means is that the failure of the sun station ultimately ended up being the one thing that set them back, and consequently lead to their downfall. After this they were unable to save their species in that 22 minute loop, they were never able to reach the eye, and soon became destroyed by The Interloper and its ghost matter. Essentially, this was the only point in Nomai history that sent them backwards.
The writing in ash twin core implies that the interloper entered the system pretty soon after the sun station failed, when the core of the interloper opens the whole systems floods with ghost matter, killing everything. This was infact, the only chance for the Nomai to save the sm selves. (If the sun station worked, the ghost matter from the interloper wouldn’t have killed them)
The Nomai were never in the 22 minute loop because the sun never went supernova to power the Ash Twin project during their lifetime.
Yeah the Nomai were never able to get into the 22 minute loop, but that would've been their only way of surviving The Interloper if the Sun Station had worked. They would've had to repeat those last 22 minutes of their species' life over and over in order to find a solution to their impending doom. But alas, the Sun Station failed and they were never given this option.
Nomai never looped. Right after they realized the sun station didn’t work, they went to explore the Interloper. They were killed by the ghost matter soon after, their work unfinished. It’s only a coincidence that we happen to fall into the time loop as the sun explodes at the end of its life cycle
@@spoofilybeloved6729 I don't think its a coincidence that we fall into a time loop due to the sun, since the sun exploding is the only way to make the time loop in the first place, its more of a coincidence that we managed to look at the statue before the events of the sun.
Awesome find dude. The details in this game is crazy good.
I have yet to be able to properly describe the incredibleness that is this game. It’s an incredible experience and let me know that games can still surprise me and make me feel wonder and excitement. It’s my #1 game of all time and I don’t see it being supplanted
This is amazing! That's my favorite track and I never noticed the similarities. Very nice catch.
Very cool discovery! Makes me wonder how many other little nuggets of brilliance are hidden away in the OST. Thanks for sharing!
Didn't even realize! Very well made, thank you!
Ah, interesting.
Good theory, I like the idea.
That's amazing! I thought that there was something to analyse in the soundtrack and i was right!
You found something absolutely incredible my friend, your thoughts are very interesting and so well explained, thank you honestly beautiful video
Wow haven't noticed that even though I listen to this incredible music every day. Thank you !
Ok wow that’s amazing, the sun station hidden in the search? That’s beautiful!
Well that's something that adds to how amazing this game is
I love this game so much.. this is wonderful, thank you for sharing this discovery
I was wondering why the sun station sounded so familiar in my music playlist, especially when the search plays right after it
My thinking is that since the sun is the trigger for going back in time, a song playing in reverse fits well
Intresting, nice work
I honestly can't imagine a better explanation, that's such a beautiful comparison
dang this is good and deserves way more likes than it currently has
Holy crap I never noticed and this hurts so bad now
oh man cool discovery! This game has so many layers!
THIS GAME MAN 😭
heckin prenominal, wonderful theory my dude
when I think this game can't surprise me anymore I find this ♥ ️ ♥ ️ ♥ ️ ♥ ️ ♥ ️ ♥ ️
What if you wanted to make a good video,
but viewers said: there's a typo at 1:35
a typo isn't enough to ruin a good video, imo :)
Awesome! really cool
it's like you're having a breakthrough discovery but it's not a good one
wow, thanks!
Once you said it, it could not be another reason :)
Epic 🔥
just wow
what's "OPC"?
Orbital Probe Cannon
This game... Fucking hell, why are people so smart?
thought I was gonna get 009 Sound System'd then