I've always preferred the octagonal gate. No console/company fanboy reasons. It simply had noticeable advantages in many games, and I never played anything that made me think _"ugh, if only I wasn't held back by this damn octagon!"_
"I never played anything that made me think "ugh, if only I wasn't held back by this damn octagon!"" I did. Try playing 3rd party games that were designed for the lack of octagonal gate on PlayStation and Xbox, and the octagonal gate will piss you off all over the place.
played sonic adventure 2 battle with a wiimote and nunchuk yesterday, interesting experience but my biggest frustration was the lack of precise control i had because of the octagonal gate, probably would've had a similar experience with a gamecube controller
As a speedrunner, having the octagonal gate is such a huge benefit. It lets me know I have the right position instantly, just based on feel. I really wish modern controllers still used the design because I feel the octagonal gate has so many benefits compared to a circular gate
The octagonal gate is the reason I played the Tony Hawk games on GameCube back in the day, so much easier to do tricks when you could easily hit a cardinal direction Found it so much harder to do on the PS2
I just played those games on Dpad. Heck, few years back THPS1+2 collection game out, some funny guy had it on his console in our local fighting game day so I and someone else just plugged in their arcade stick and played the game as naturally as ever, if not even better.
One of the most notable uses for the octagonal gate to me is how you use the Nunchuck's control stick to switch between eight different surgical tools in real time in the Trauma Center games on Wii, which makes picking a direction to pick a tool very unambiguous with tactile feedback. So the octagonal gate has more uses than just moving a character in eight directions.
I feel like octagonal gates are the perfect balance of cardinal snapping and full analog control, especially since you're not trying to work against software when trying for a more precise angle.
Playing OoT on Emulator or a port makes the lack of a gate feel extremely noticible and it's almost entirely because of back-walking. The game is very sensitive in the range of inputs it reads as straight backward and only a very slight deviation is enough to lose all momentum and start walking diagonally. I am so thankful to SoH for giving the option to have an emulated octagonal gate, where you can set an angle tolerance, and if the input is within that tolerance of one of the 8 main directions, it will snap to that direction. Who would've thought that _walking in a straight line_ would be such a revolutionary feature?
2 things I love that will never come back: 1) Octagonal gates; 2) parallel high control sticks from the Wii U controllers. I just never feel fully comfortable with offset sticks in dual analog gameplay and the PS sticks are just too close together for how I like to rest the knuckle of my thumbs on my sticks. The high and more separated sticks always felt great to me and I loved that the dpad was opposite the buttons, making classic and even modern games that control with the dpad feel much better to play than the offset style
Man people were way the fuck too harsh on the Wii U Pro layout. Like was it really THAT distracting having the face buttons below the right stick? Seems like everyone adopted just fine going from dual shocks to the Xbox layout most controllers follow today. The Wii U layout is a much better compliment for 3D and 2D games than the PlayStation symmetrical design. And it made stuff like a claw grip for simultaneous camera and button control feel far more comfortable than any other controller.
@@Mr.Welbig THANK YOU!!! Finally someone else who gets it! Much appreciated. I still can't believe that, with all the 3rd party manufacturers out there, nobody has tried to make a Switch controller with this layout
Check out the SCUF Nomad! It's Wii U layout and bluetooth so there's no device/case incompatibility outside of extreme cases. iOS only but Android is planned. I think that the Wii U layout is perfect for handhelds, and there's nothing wrong with it for console as well. If the Wii U Pro controller had gyro it would be my most used controller by far. As is, I use it rarely but loved it when I still kept my Wii U plugged in.
@@Scroogs Oh, I so feel this about the Wii U pro controller. If it had gyro and analogue triggers, it'd be my favorite controller of all time. As it, I rarely use it but always wish I could use it more because it's almost perfect to me
Ape Escape benefits immensely from not having an octo-gate. Whether it is gadgets that use a 360 swing to operate or wanting to hit precise angles between the 8 complimentary and cardinals I cannot imagine being comfortable with anything other than a circle gate in those games.
Playing Super Monkey Ball Deluxe on the Xbox after years of playing the first 2 games on GameCube made me realize just how important that octagonal gate was to getting precise sharp movements in those games.
Octagonal gates need to make a comeback! The Wii Classic Controller Pro is my favourite controller! Symmetrical sticks with octagonal gates AND stacked shoulder buttons? Brilliant! I legit do better at SM64 on Wii VC than on emulators Because of the WiiCCPro's octagonal gate!
Easily one of my favourite channels after discovering it recently, this lad is able casually and earnestly break down specific niches in gaming that he takes an interest in, while clearly elaborating and never aimlessly rambling, great stuff
I think bringing up that Smash players like the GameCube controller without mentioning all the top smash players specifically modding the octagonal gate with more notches is kind of an important oversight.
Finally someone verbalizes something I've been thinking about a long time. I truly wish octagonal gates were still available in modern controllers. I primarily play PC games with some Switch, but my primary genre of choice is Platformers. Celeste specifically is one game where Octagonal gates helped me to beat it so, so much. I also felt, while playing the recent Paper Mario Remake, that some narrow path sections felt off becuase I couldnt seem to move directly left or right, and I ended up needing to take them very slowly to not fall off. In the original, I could trust the gate on the GCN to keep my movement straight. Thats only two examples, but I really miss this feature honestly.
The one thing I notice a lot of remasters really don't account for is the control layout changes. I think if a lot of games had some hitbox/geometry changes for the movement, it would really make things a lot more smoother for newer control schemes.
Lovely video topic. I've always thought about this and the octagonal gate is almost always superior. For 2D fighting games in particular, it makes motions like DP inputs much more clear and precise. This topic also reminds me of the number of old arcade machines which strangely chose a square gate.
I love the oct gate and the gc button layout. the GC controller only needs like 4 additional things to become on-par with modern controllers and nintendo should do it officially.
i distinctively remember having a though time to get used to playing Mario 64 on emulators because the camera in that game frame the action to better suit the octagonal gate style of movement I got used to it, but it truly ain't the same. Now my pet peeve with gaming controllers i have you already mentioned. I was an owner of a console for any major company since the 4th gen so having the X button be in different places constantly really boggles my mind
I actually really like the joy-cons for 2D games. The minimal travel while maintaining 360 degree control is really comfortable, and it minimizes thumb fatigue from using a D-pad (something I'm particularly sensitive to). I don't know why Nintendo can't make a controller where the left stick is octagonal, and the right stick isn't. That would be perfection in my opinion.
By the way, if you like your name, keep it by all means. But when I want to watch your vids or recommend you to someone new, I have to look up the texture pack video, or find your latest vid in my subscriptions. I definitely feel I won't remember your channel title ever lol. I think changing it to something punchier would genuinely get you more views/subs! Cheers!
@@BrapStephens You could assign keywords to the bookmarks or even just search for it by partial URL's or page titles. But I use Firefox, so if you're using something else I don't know if it allows that.
I prefer octagonal gates in fighting games, as I know exactly which direction I'm holding, making sure I don't accidentally jump when doing a super move.
There is a whole modding scene for modifying arcade sticks to have octagonal gates. It makes perfect sense since you need to do circular motions, but only the cardinal directions really matter. I also had problems with my character jumping on accident because it's impossible to tell if you've hit perfectly horizontally left or right.
This is exactly why I love the GameCube controller it just has such a great satisfying feel when you use it! I still think Wind Waker is the best controlling Zelda game because of the octagonal gate!
This was a fantastic video! I've never thought about how the octagonal gate is useful for 2D and 3D and key to faithfully replaying games on the N64, Gamecube, and Wii.
I could see a good use case for octagonal gates even on precision 2D platformers like Celeste. When i played it, the best controller i felt was the original joycons. The seperate buttons left no room for interpretation of which directions i was pressing. Trying a joystick was a nightmare to know which way i would dash before i did so, even many regular d pads i tried had more than an occasional missed input. With the octo gates you would get the nice physical and immediate feedback before your dash and i imagine it would work really well.
I didn’t know how much I hated circle or square gates until I picked up an arcade stick. Swapping it for an octagonal gate improved the feel of the stick so much. I regretted purchasing the stick until I upgraded the gate now I find myself playing every game I can on it and enjoying it so much. Currently replaying the Mega Man X series on it and man it almost feels like that’s how it should be played.
Glad I'm not the only one that, had to use classic controls for MPR. Everything else just felt wrong, and so I finally broke out the gamecube controller and set it to classic. But for some reason you can't make 1 to 1, one button just can't be adjusted. P.S. since it might be my only chance to talk about it, the Plus and minus buttons should be swapped in MPR.
I love octagonal gates for fighting games and you can even mod many arcade sticks to have them so there is a niche in the fighting game community that appreciates them. I remembered seeking out an octagonal gated gamepad (got an Horii PS3 controller) and stick when I was getting heavy into fighting games with some friends, realizing I had a much easier time doing fighting game motions back on the N64 with Killer Instinct Gold and I realized that was because that controller had notches for the cardinal directions. Fighting gamers are known to want to use a stick because of the "circular" motions you need to do, but ultimately fighting games' logic are actually only looking for inputs in the cardinal directions! Almost all your examples are when the games themselves are only programmed for 8 directions. With a smooth gate, it's hard to tell if you've made a quarter circle or half circle... you end up jumping needlessly if you overshoot or failing altogether if you undershoot the cardinal directions.
Victrix BFG Pro has an optional octagonal gate included with its other accessories. You can just lift off the circular gate it comes with and snap in the octagonal gate.
Octagonal gates also excel in a lot of modern 2D indie games that make heavier use of diagonals than older 2D games. I often found myself making a lot of misinputs in Celeste before switching to a GameCube controller. It also feels way more natural to super jump and preform dives in Pizza Tower with a GameCube controller. I have been meaning to look into shaving my own octagonal gate into an 8bitdo pro 2 to have the best dpad, analog gate, and button layout in one controller.
Super monkey ball is easily the most affected game by this problem. The GameCube joystick makes even the hardest and thinnest platforms to roll a ball across perfectly smooth and accurate. Meanwhile, on any other joystick, the lack of the octagonal gate makes it hard to go perfectly forward which makes a lot of floors much harder than they should be.
Exactly the same for me, except with Soul Calibur! The very first time I played SC was on a GameCube, and the stick moves felt really intuitive to me. When I bought the game for myself, I only had an Xbox, and I suddenly felt a lot less confident and comfortable playing. I constantly kept missing moves that required partial stick rotation, because I either started or ended rotation in the wrong place.
I like the octagonal gate because plenty of times in gaming you just want to go straight in one direction instead of slightly veering off to one direction, especially with precise platforming. One instance of taking them away making gameplay worse is in Majora's Mask 3D. In the Goron Moon segment you're supposed to roll in a perfectly straight line at an angle so you hit chests that will automatically turn you in the right direction to cross large gaps. It was fine on older platforms since Link only moves in the 8 rigid directions and the controllers had proper indents, but on 3DS you have full 360⁰ movement and no indents, making it so that going into a straight line is almost impossible. I also don't like how control sticks removed the rings that kept your thumbs from slipping off of them. It's especially bad when you get sweaty from tense moments, either from an interesting story moment, or you're close to beating a difficult challenge that either took a long time to accomplish, required a lot of luck, or both. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think the 3DS circle pad is just awful, for a few other reasons besides the ones I listed too. It's probably not much better than that joke they call the C stick on the newer system though.
I was serious about competitive Melee for 7 years and still play today. That game NEEDS to be played on a GameCube controller, or a very specific layout designed after it. A huge reason is the analog stick, and the natural notches the gates give you Take Fox and Falco's Up B recovery moves. I forget the exact number, but there are between 336-348 distinct angles that they can travel while doing that move, and if you're good enough, you can pull off some CRAZY recoveries by hitting some precise angles to just barely avoid someone or make a beeline for the ledge. I'm not an amazing fox player, but my angles are insane and I can only do it with a GameCube controller, or maybe a box style one with practice. Having the tactile feedback of "I'm *this* far away from this notch" gives me so much more accuracy than I could ever get from a circular gated controller. Even simple stuff like walking straight forward in Mario or 64 Zelda is so much more difficult on a modern controller
Octagonal gates are so good, I wish it was still a thing in modern games, or at least having the corners a bit more pronounced so it is easier to hit them, it also makes it easier for me to hit the other angles because if I can't feel a corner it means I am inbetween them. While I don't mind circular gaters, it has become a pain replaying certain games and to adjust my character because I usually am a bit off and the character starts drifting slightly to one side, or when playing in my steam deck sometimes I will quickly press down on the left stick but I usually end up hitting a bit more to the left than what I wanted
There is a modern day GameCube controller with all the necessary buttons... its the Doyoki GameCube Joycon for switch. Works extremely well and feels great. Only issue is that the controller is based on joycon... great for a Nintendo Switch but not so much for a pc.
Well there is a way to test if some switch games would play better with an octagonal gate. There are aftermarket switch pro controller shells with an octagonal thumb stick gate and I've thought about buying one before. Now the pro controller still lacks the stick resistance that makes it easier to stay in the 8 directions when the stick is travelling. But fun fact: the joycon have a little bit of that octagonal stick resistance going on. It's not as strong as on a GameCube controller but it's definitely there.
Playing the original Super Monkey Ball games with the GameCubes octagonal gate is a must! It helps so much when needing to precisely move through tightroping challenges and if you speedrun the games, it’s the only way do consistently do a lot of strategies (especially the pause strats)
I prefer the octagonal gate on the games that were designed for it, but I’m perfectly at peace with modern controllers’ circular gates. I think the extended range of movement without the snapping leaves the choice up to the game designers as to what to do with the controls. It has a fluidity to it that makes it feel like *you* are really in control instead of working within the constraints of the controller.
As far as the octagonal gates... I dunno. There's definitely games where it would provide an advantage (Link's Awakening for Switch, I set up an 8BitDo controller with a profile that told it the d-pad is an analog stick, so I could play with a d-pad instead), and Nintendo of course designs their games around their controller. But then if you play third party stuff on a Nintendo system with octagonal gates, when the game was designed around the PlayStation and Dreamcast or Xbox competition that does not have octagonal gates, the gates can feel awful. I think the ideal would be a controller that has a way to easily switch between a round gate and octagonal gate depending on the game you want to play, but I don't know how they'd do that and keep it simple, cheap, and not prone to breaking.
Something to bring up also is the deadzones of old controllers and how they're different now. The Resident Evil thing makes a lot of sense. When I was playing REmake1 and RE0 last year with a PS4 controller on a dpad I was like soooo scared of the idea of playing them with an analogue stick on Gamecube since like that dpad is too small for good tankie movement and I've always found tankies on stick uncomfortable compared to digital input. RE4 is my favorite game ever but I only ever play on keyboard+mouse since I always found playing on controller odd due to having to play on an analogue stick in order to make the aiming snappy. I bought a PS3 controller that year and messed around with the RE Gamecube games with the analogue stick and they felt perfectly fine due to the deadzones on older controllers being different than they are now. It created a thing where when I'm playing older 3D games I only use that PS3 controller bc of that. God Hand is the most apparent example since that game feels awkward on a modern stick but great on an older one. I think the deadzone thing + the octagonal gate makes the Gamecube RE games really perfect for them also. They knew that the dpad was too small for good movement so the octagonal gate working as a way to add more precision would make a game like RE4 even more perfect on both the Wii and Cube. God Hand would probably play perfect on a GC controller, minus missing a button. Now imagine how good classic RE would play with an arcade stick, lmao.
I love the gate, but would also place the GC controller has my favorite controller overall in general. Perfect hand feel, giant A button rests right under my thumb, large gentle triggers are comfortable to press, and the ridges on the stick are the bomb. I’d have to agree the gate has value when it comes to platformers, especially those that are fixed camera. Love playing the old LEGO games with the GC controller.
I think there's lots of missed potential with the GCN face button layout. Having all of them be different shapes surrounding a big center (A) button did wonders in familiarizing myself with the layout without having to memorize the labels of the shape themselves.
What a brilliant insight. I've always just dismissed this aspect of the GameCube controller as a flaw. After playing the remake of the first Resident Evil on the PC recently, I can see your point about how it could have made the game more enjoyable.
I really want a fully featured modern controller with the Octagonal Gate. I just finished modding my Wii and when I messed around with some gamecube titles, I forgot how much I missed the controller.
From a general standpoint, I prefer controllers with a circular gate. Even if it has no or minimal impact on input interpretation, it just feels more natural in my mind to have that full 360 degrees of motion. However, the examples you brought up are very compelling and I never consciously realized how much of an impact it potentially has on the feel of a game. Every Resident Evil game that is on the Gamecube plays best on that system. And I never thought about how Link's Awakening should be technically possible to play on Switch with the Gamecube controller but how the octagonal gate would greatly benefit that unconventional control style. I might consider that for whenever I replay that game in the future.
The only game I've played off the top of my head that I've had problems using the octagonal gate with is Sonic Adventure, but I suspect that's more due to a combination of that game's movement being quite sensitive and a little bit jank to begin with (and I'm saying that as someone who adores the game) and the sensitivity of it not quite gelling with the octagonal gate, and me personally being used to speedrunning the game with a controller with a circular gate. I do remember playing the game a few years ago with a GameCube controller before I started speedrunning and it playing perfectly fine, so I think it's probably just me putting so many hours into using the circular gate. Something that proves your point about an octagonal gate working better for 3D World is the Crash Bandicoot games. The original versions of Crash 2 and 3 (Crash 1 didn't support analog control on PS1) didn't snap your stick movements to 8 directions like 3D World did, so using an analog stick with those games results in unnaturally smooth movement that the levels aren't really designed for, to the point where a lot of people actually preferred using the D-Pad. The N. Sane Trilogy remaster actually implemented the 3D World-esque 8 direction snap, to a point where it almost feels like the stick movements are only 8 directions, and I personally think the platforming feels a lot better like that. However, I've realized that when playing the originals on an emulator, my issues with the stick movement are mostly fixed just by playing with a GameCube controller thanks to the octagonal gate. Super Monkey Ball's another game that feels perfect with a GameCube controller, to the point where using a circular stick kind of feels to me like I'm playing at a disadvantage. I haven't played any of them aside from the original two (unless you want to count the GBA one, which was the only one I'd played for a long time), but at least in those games you can tell that the movement is designed for the octagonal gate, in a way that's hard to explain unless you try it for yourself with and without an octagonal gate. It just feels _right_ with the GameCube's analog stick, whereas with anything else it feels like it almost snaps to four directions.
I was actually think of mentioning Crash but wanted to keep the video short! It's great that you mention it because I know exactly what you're talking about. It's something I noticed when I played the N Sane Trilogy is how the analog stick controls were very different to the originals more organic movement. I'm actually probably in a minority because I prefer the more natural movements of the PS1 analog controls. I never found it to hinder gameplay much since I can switch to the dpad on the fly if I want, mainly for those 2D sections. But y'know you may be right anyway because despite my own preference towards the original controls, I did notice the N Sane controls to be more consistent overall. Making platforming feel more accurate. It's incredibly strange to prefer how one controls feels, yet getting better results with another control feel. I may have to try a GameCube controller with the PS1 games if it worked for you so well!
The octagonal gate is the entire reason I can't play Super Monkey Ball with anything but a GameCube controller. The long straightaways are just damn near impossible without it!
The Octagonal gate is something I never missed, but I also don't mind really. I've never really thought I needed it for most games I've played on N64, Gamecube, or Wii. I also probably sound crazy, but I prefer playing Galaxy on a Pro controller on the Switch. I can see the appeal of playing 2D games with one, though. A big thing I've always hated and had to compromise within 2D games is my hand being uncomfortable using a D-pad or dealing with the imprecision of analog sticks; an Octagonal gate would fix both.
I actually totally agree with you on this. The octagonal gate works better for 2D platformers and games like Super Monkey Ball as well. There’s really no downside to having it, because it works well with full 3D-movement games also. I’d love to see it return, alongside the GameCube face button layout, in some future controller. Though, modern control sticks are way better imo. It would be cool to see a blend of new and old controller styles! Best of the best.
I can't find evidence of it now, but I could've sworn I read something a while back about a stick that used magnets to mimic an octagonal gate. The idea is you'd have magnets at the 8 directions, and you'd feel some resistance at those 8 points, like you would with an octagonal gate. The difference would be that you could turn off the magnetization for games that play better with smooth 360° motion, so you'd theoretically have the best of both worlds. Not sure how expensive that would be though
That sounds pretty interesting. I'd love to see that properly conceptualized. I was following the Panda controller during it's development as it seemed like the one true successor to the GCN controller that could adapt for modern play. Too bad they shut it down.
Amazing video! Food-for-thought videos on RUclips, even if it's one about a control layout, really goes a long way for me in general. I have some thoughts that I wanted to share about my experience with... *video game controllers*... shivers Pretty recently I started diversifying my tastes with more retro 2D platformers and 2D/2.5D indie titles. On the original controllers a lot of those games were probably fine, but on modern controllers it was the bane of my existence. After watching this video, I'm curious about the result of my performance if I used a GameCube controller or a Classic Controller Pro for most of my retro gaming needs. Modern controllers really don't cut most of the games I play anymore. I struggled TERRIBLY with games like Celeste due to the DualSense's peculiar d-pad making diagonal jumps more difficult. Now I'm curious to how I'd perform with an octagonal gate on a lot of games I play. I'll look into buying a GameCube Controller + Adapter in my future.
The Dreamcast has a strange but interesting compromise between the two. The outer ring is circular but the joystick “snaps” slightly into the main 8 directions. Giving you a tactile feedback when you pass them. I don’t think we’ll ever see that again. Retro Righters has a controller called Duelist which features an octagon outer ring.
Shout out to the Neo Geo CD controller’s clicky stick. I don’t have enough disposable income to justify buying a controller, but the joystick/d-pad hybrid is fairly unique and also sort of serves as an interesting stopgap between d-pads and analog sticks.
U are correct, it makes a difference, see how smash pro player controller are and u will see they have made extra notches to help some precise moves. I did those notches on my Xbox One controller and now I can run STRAIGHT ON EVERY GAME instead of walking slightly to the left... And I have a GameCube controller for my Wiii and I must stay It so well done, gripping it its another world
I've never thought about it before because I don't play a lot of Nintendo games from N64 and on, and what's more is these days I primarily only play games with an emulator instead of the original equipment. However, now that you've got me thinking about it, I can certainly see the appeal of being able to snap into cardinal directions. I too have a wandering motion when playing games when the sensitivity is set too high, and you can't always change it in every game. I'm thinking that perhaps it would be a fun project idea to make a controller that had octagonal gates. Just need to get an ESP microcontroller with built-in Bluetooth, make a board with some buttons and maybe get some Hall effect sticks, a battery pack and 3D print a shell. As they say, why buy it when you can DIY it for ten times the cost.
the gamecube controller is used in competitive Mario kart 8 thanks to a glitch in the game wherein you can gain like double the speed in air time using a gc controller. also I think you would absolutely adore the shell swap mods available for switch pro controllers, which add the octagonal gate to the switch's native controller.
Ocarina randomizer no logic taught me VERY fast that Xbox controllers weren't gonna cut it for me. Bought an adapter from 8bitdo for my GameCube controller and I'm loving it. Also tempted to buy the 8bitdo mod kit for one of my old N64 controllers.
Surprised you didnt mention fighting games or skating games. being able to hit cardinals consistently is really good for those games, sad that the gamecube button layout doesnt fit most fighting games
I thinks it situational based on the level design and camera movement. There a reason why Mario 64 DS trys to compensate for the D-pad by having the camera snap in ways that set you up to only need 45 degree angels as much as it's possible too. A game that demands more 45 or 90 degree movment in the 3d space will feel better with an oct gate, where as a more free form movment game will be better with the circle desing.
I think the N64’s stick is a great transition between 2D and 3D gaming. Marrying aspects of both to keep some familiarity to gamers who only known a D-Pad.
Surprisingly the N64 IS the perfect 2D controller It has a somewhat similar "SEGA" layout with 6 face buttons, but all C are the same size, so changing back to 4 buttons, 2 triggers makes it feel natural, and when you want to add the B/A buttons, it feels good for that The Dpad is also super nice, much better than the SNES one, bar none
It may also be worth mentioning that those octagonal sticks use plastic stick boxes unlike modern controllers that regrettably use metal in the stick boxes
My beef with the GameCube controller is the triggers hurt to use for super fast tech so I prefer modern controllers but I do wish we had a controller with a modern trigger but the old-school octagonal gate.
Idk it mostly comes off as a simplicity transition goin into the 3d era and accessibility otherwise. Most 3D games you have full movement abd i find myself regretting the notches and added clunk from a gate, and even in precision titles (like but not limited to smash melee) you still want to be hitting angles besides the 8 rather consistently. I see some utility in it helping people new to games though, as having several key, easy to understand angles already marked and even guided into really simplifies control and learning curve with the controller
I use octagonal gates on my arcade sticks because round or square gates don't work well for fighting games. Gives you the definitive feedback you need to know if you're pressing the direction you need.
I think that it has mostly been phased out, noting that most if not all games mentioned are "retro" and made by Nintendo who had pushed the most for octaganal gates. The only real use of gating of a stick is for pecision for speed running or fighting games and for more antiquated games that are still using 8 directional movement or aiming.
when i played RE1 i played using a 3rd party GC controller that had the gate. it was really nice and fit that game. however i think we are past the point where we need the gate. i think the way games are developed most of the time now benefit more from full directional sticks. however i do love the gate and wish there were ways of using it in the modern landscape
I think about the octagonal gate missing in new controllers more than I care to admit. Locking into angles spoiled me heavy leaving the GC/Wii era. Theres been enough times where a game is asking me to hold a cardinal direction that Im certain Im holding to not yearn for a return
the 8-gate is sorely missed by me even today. I cannot get into Nintendo Switch Online's expansion pack content simply because the Pro Controller and the Joycons don't guide the movement action I want. It's as if I am using a sloppy manual transmission that takes real effort to find your upshift with these circular gates, versus the N64, Gamecube, and Wii Classic controller's gates that deliver that smooth nudge to get quick and precise inputs.
Octagonal is fine for a Nunchuck but... I don't think i would survive that Game Cube stuff. Maybe it's just the Wii Class Con that gives me that nightmarish feeling.
the octagon was perfect for speedrunning games as you often need precise angles for movement optimization and complicated tricks. i remember how much more difficult it was to run wind waker hd on wii u compared to gamecube just due to how often the octagon was needed. nintendo bring it back!
I feel like Mario sunshine is designed around this gate. Playing Mario sunshine with a pro controller makes the fluddless platforming a nightmare to deal with.
Someone needs to make an adapter for wii classic controllers to work on switch if it doesn't exist already, they have the same stick design as the GameCube and are only missing the clickable sticks.
9:00 I mean, the Wii U version of 3D World was compatible with both the Classic Controller and Nunchuck so it's not like this is some unanswerable question
Guess what? Super Smash Bros. Melee players modify the octagonal gate with additional notches for enhanced precision with certain fighter's movements. It's almost never mentioned, but it exists.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
I've always preferred the octagonal gate. No console/company fanboy reasons. It simply had noticeable advantages in many games, and I never played anything that made me think _"ugh, if only I wasn't held back by this damn octagon!"_
"I never played anything that made me think "ugh, if only I wasn't held back by this damn octagon!""
I did. Try playing 3rd party games that were designed for the lack of octagonal gate on PlayStation and Xbox, and the octagonal gate will piss you off all over the place.
Pretty much the opposite in fact: playing SM64 on the Switch made me wish that the octogonal gate was still there.
It would be cool if there were controllers that allows you to swap what kind of gate you had on the joystick.
@@cyclops8238 are you thinking abour nyxi?
played sonic adventure 2 battle with a wiimote and nunchuk yesterday, interesting experience but my biggest frustration was the lack of precise control i had because of the octagonal gate, probably would've had a similar experience with a gamecube controller
As a speedrunner, having the octagonal gate is such a huge benefit. It lets me know I have the right position instantly, just based on feel. I really wish modern controllers still used the design because I feel the octagonal gate has so many benefits compared to a circular gate
I speedrun but dislike the octagonal gate lol
I have a gamepad from Horii that has an octagonal gate, but it's for the PS3. You can mod many arcade sticks to have an octagonal gate though.
The octagonal gate is the reason I played the Tony Hawk games on GameCube back in the day, so much easier to do tricks when you could easily hit a cardinal direction
Found it so much harder to do on the PS2
I playex 1-4 on the ps1 using d pad
I just played those games on Dpad.
Heck, few years back THPS1+2 collection game out, some funny guy had it on his console in our local fighting game day so I and someone else just plugged in their arcade stick and played the game as naturally as ever, if not even better.
I use dpad for Tony Hawk lol
One of the most notable uses for the octagonal gate to me is how you use the Nunchuck's control stick to switch between eight different surgical tools in real time in the Trauma Center games on Wii, which makes picking a direction to pick a tool very unambiguous with tactile feedback. So the octagonal gate has more uses than just moving a character in eight directions.
I feel like octagonal gates are the perfect balance of cardinal snapping and full analog control, especially since you're not trying to work against software when trying for a more precise angle.
Playing OoT on Emulator or a port makes the lack of a gate feel extremely noticible and it's almost entirely because of back-walking. The game is very sensitive in the range of inputs it reads as straight backward and only a very slight deviation is enough to lose all momentum and start walking diagonally. I am so thankful to SoH for giving the option to have an emulated octagonal gate, where you can set an angle tolerance, and if the input is within that tolerance of one of the 8 main directions, it will snap to that direction.
Who would've thought that _walking in a straight line_ would be such a revolutionary feature?
2 things I love that will never come back: 1) Octagonal gates; 2) parallel high control sticks from the Wii U controllers.
I just never feel fully comfortable with offset sticks in dual analog gameplay and the PS sticks are just too close together for how I like to rest the knuckle of my thumbs on my sticks. The high and more separated sticks always felt great to me and I loved that the dpad was opposite the buttons, making classic and even modern games that control with the dpad feel much better to play than the offset style
Man people were way the fuck too harsh on the Wii U Pro layout. Like was it really THAT distracting having the face buttons below the right stick? Seems like everyone adopted just fine going from dual shocks to the Xbox layout most controllers follow today. The Wii U layout is a much better compliment for 3D and 2D games than the PlayStation symmetrical design. And it made stuff like a claw grip for simultaneous camera and button control feel far more comfortable than any other controller.
@@Mr.Welbig THANK YOU!!! Finally someone else who gets it! Much appreciated. I still can't believe that, with all the 3rd party manufacturers out there, nobody has tried to make a Switch controller with this layout
Check out the SCUF Nomad! It's Wii U layout and bluetooth so there's no device/case incompatibility outside of extreme cases. iOS only but Android is planned.
I think that the Wii U layout is perfect for handhelds, and there's nothing wrong with it for console as well. If the Wii U Pro controller had gyro it would be my most used controller by far. As is, I use it rarely but loved it when I still kept my Wii U plugged in.
@@Scroogs Oh, I so feel this about the Wii U pro controller. If it had gyro and analogue triggers, it'd be my favorite controller of all time. As it, I rarely use it but always wish I could use it more because it's almost perfect to me
finding this channel has been a real treat. i've never seen anyone else have the same superautism over such oddly specific shit like i do
I modded my Switch Pro controller to have an octagonal gate. Its super nice.
Ape Escape benefits immensely from not having an octo-gate. Whether it is gadgets that use a 360 swing to operate or wanting to hit precise angles between the 8 complimentary and cardinals I cannot imagine being comfortable with anything other than a circle gate in those games.
Playing Super Monkey Ball Deluxe on the Xbox after years of playing the first 2 games on GameCube made me realize just how important that octagonal gate was to getting precise sharp movements in those games.
I agree, playing levels like Free Fall are way more difficult with modern analog controls.
@@boygame1955Oh yeah, the Exam C stage too
Playing Super Monkey Ball without a octogonal gate is a nightmare!
Octagonal gates need to make a comeback! The Wii Classic Controller Pro is my favourite controller! Symmetrical sticks with octagonal gates AND stacked shoulder buttons? Brilliant! I legit do better at SM64 on Wii VC than on emulators Because of the WiiCCPro's octagonal gate!
Easily one of my favourite channels after discovering it recently, this lad is able casually and earnestly break down specific niches in gaming that he takes an interest in, while clearly elaborating and never aimlessly rambling, great stuff
I think bringing up that Smash players like the GameCube controller without mentioning all the top smash players specifically modding the octagonal gate with more notches is kind of an important oversight.
YES. THANK YOU. i miss the octagonal gate so much, i wish more controllers had this option. would make games like celeste feel a lot more natural
Finally someone verbalizes something I've been thinking about a long time. I truly wish octagonal gates were still available in modern controllers. I primarily play PC games with some Switch, but my primary genre of choice is Platformers. Celeste specifically is one game where Octagonal gates helped me to beat it so, so much.
I also felt, while playing the recent Paper Mario Remake, that some narrow path sections felt off becuase I couldnt seem to move directly left or right, and I ended up needing to take them very slowly to not fall off. In the original, I could trust the gate on the GCN to keep my movement straight. Thats only two examples, but I really miss this feature honestly.
The one thing I notice a lot of remasters really don't account for is the control layout changes. I think if a lot of games had some hitbox/geometry changes for the movement, it would really make things a lot more smoother for newer control schemes.
Lovely video topic. I've always thought about this and the octagonal gate is almost always superior. For 2D fighting games in particular, it makes motions like DP inputs much more clear and precise. This topic also reminds me of the number of old arcade machines which strangely chose a square gate.
I love the oct gate and the gc button layout. the GC controller only needs like 4 additional things to become on-par with modern controllers and nintendo should do it officially.
i distinctively remember having a though time to get used to playing Mario 64 on emulators because the camera in that game frame the action to better suit the octagonal gate style of movement I got used to it, but it truly ain't the same. Now my pet peeve with gaming controllers i have you already mentioned. I was an owner of a console for any major company since the 4th gen so having the X button be in different places constantly really boggles my mind
Finally someone's talking about real important shit on youtube
I miss Gamecube joysticks 🕹
Their durability and calibration was pretty awful, though. An updated design of the stick for the Switch 2 would be a dream.
@@hajilee4539 All I remember anymore about joystick durability is the many potentiometers I've replaced on modern controllers. 😅
I actually really like the joy-cons for 2D games. The minimal travel while maintaining 360 degree control is really comfortable, and it minimizes thumb fatigue from using a D-pad (something I'm particularly sensitive to).
I don't know why Nintendo can't make a controller where the left stick is octagonal, and the right stick isn't. That would be perfection in my opinion.
Another banger! Keep up the quality content man. You're becoming one of my favorite RUclipsrs!
By the way, if you like your name, keep it by all means. But when I want to watch your vids or recommend you to someone new, I have to look up the texture pack video, or find your latest vid in my subscriptions. I definitely feel I won't remember your channel title ever lol. I think changing it to something punchier would genuinely get you more views/subs! Cheers!
@@BrapStephens You don't use a browser that allows you to search your bookmarks?
@@anon_y_mousse Why do you think that?
@@BrapStephens You could assign keywords to the bookmarks or even just search for it by partial URL's or page titles. But I use Firefox, so if you're using something else I don't know if it allows that.
@@anon_y_mousse Brave most definitely does allow it, but I don't bookmark my subscriptions, I just view them when I want to.
Octagonal gate is necessary to play the orignal monkey ball games
yes
I prefer octagonal gates in fighting games, as I know exactly which direction I'm holding, making sure I don't accidentally jump when doing a super move.
There is a whole modding scene for modifying arcade sticks to have octagonal gates. It makes perfect sense since you need to do circular motions, but only the cardinal directions really matter. I also had problems with my character jumping on accident because it's impossible to tell if you've hit perfectly horizontally left or right.
BASED im so glad someone else recognizes how much better this type of stick is
This is exactly why I love the GameCube controller it just has such a great satisfying feel when you use it! I still think Wind Waker is the best controlling Zelda game because of the octagonal gate!
This is exactly the video I was looking for. Thank you!
This was a fantastic video! I've never thought about how the octagonal gate is useful for 2D and 3D and key to faithfully replaying games on the N64, Gamecube, and Wii.
9:11 I've only played the Wii version, which does not have tank controls. It's an FPS, where the Wii remote is the mouse
I could see a good use case for octagonal gates even on precision 2D platformers like Celeste. When i played it, the best controller i felt was the original joycons. The seperate buttons left no room for interpretation of which directions i was pressing. Trying a joystick was a nightmare to know which way i would dash before i did so, even many regular d pads i tried had more than an occasional missed input. With the octo gates you would get the nice physical and immediate feedback before your dash and i imagine it would work really well.
Every thought i ever had about octagonal gates is in this video. It is perfect
I didn’t know how much I hated circle or square gates until I picked up an arcade stick. Swapping it for an octagonal gate improved the feel of the stick so much. I regretted purchasing the stick until I upgraded the gate now I find myself playing every game I can on it and enjoying it so much. Currently replaying the Mega Man X series on it and man it almost feels like that’s how it should be played.
Glad I'm not the only one that, had to use classic controls for MPR. Everything else just felt wrong, and so I finally broke out the gamecube controller and set it to classic. But for some reason you can't make 1 to 1, one button just can't be adjusted.
P.S. since it might be my only chance to talk about it, the Plus and minus buttons should be swapped in MPR.
I love octagonal gates for fighting games and you can even mod many arcade sticks to have them so there is a niche in the fighting game community that appreciates them. I remembered seeking out an octagonal gated gamepad (got an Horii PS3 controller) and stick when I was getting heavy into fighting games with some friends, realizing I had a much easier time doing fighting game motions back on the N64 with Killer Instinct Gold and I realized that was because that controller had notches for the cardinal directions. Fighting gamers are known to want to use a stick because of the "circular" motions you need to do, but ultimately fighting games' logic are actually only looking for inputs in the cardinal directions! Almost all your examples are when the games themselves are only programmed for 8 directions. With a smooth gate, it's hard to tell if you've made a quarter circle or half circle... you end up jumping needlessly if you overshoot or failing altogether if you undershoot the cardinal directions.
Victrix BFG Pro has an optional octagonal gate included with its other accessories. You can just lift off the circular gate it comes with and snap in the octagonal gate.
Octagonal gates also excel in a lot of modern 2D indie games that make heavier use of diagonals than older 2D games. I often found myself making a lot of misinputs in Celeste before switching to a GameCube controller. It also feels way more natural to super jump and preform dives in Pizza Tower with a GameCube controller. I have been meaning to look into shaving my own octagonal gate into an 8bitdo pro 2 to have the best dpad, analog gate, and button layout in one controller.
I absolutely love octagonal gates. I even swapped them into my Neo Geo MVS sticks. An absolute must for Metal Slug
0:45 🤨 holding the ps button is to enter pairing mode, once it's paired to whatever device you just press it once..
Super monkey ball is easily the most affected game by this problem. The GameCube joystick makes even the hardest and thinnest platforms to roll a ball across perfectly smooth and accurate. Meanwhile, on any other joystick, the lack of the octagonal gate makes it hard to go perfectly forward which makes a lot of floors much harder than they should be.
Exactly the same for me, except with Soul Calibur! The very first time I played SC was on a GameCube, and the stick moves felt really intuitive to me. When I bought the game for myself, I only had an Xbox, and I suddenly felt a lot less confident and comfortable playing. I constantly kept missing moves that required partial stick rotation, because I either started or ended rotation in the wrong place.
I've struggled to move straight in so many games with the switch controller, it's really annoying. Wish the octagonal gate was still here.
I like the octagonal gate because plenty of times in gaming you just want to go straight in one direction instead of slightly veering off to one direction, especially with precise platforming.
One instance of taking them away making gameplay worse is in Majora's Mask 3D. In the Goron Moon segment you're supposed to roll in a perfectly straight line at an angle so you hit chests that will automatically turn you in the right direction to cross large gaps. It was fine on older platforms since Link only moves in the 8 rigid directions and the controllers had proper indents, but on 3DS you have full 360⁰ movement and no indents, making it so that going into a straight line is almost impossible.
I also don't like how control sticks removed the rings that kept your thumbs from slipping off of them. It's especially bad when you get sweaty from tense moments, either from an interesting story moment, or you're close to beating a difficult challenge that either took a long time to accomplish, required a lot of luck, or both.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think the 3DS circle pad is just awful, for a few other reasons besides the ones I listed too. It's probably not much better than that joke they call the C stick on the newer system though.
I was serious about competitive Melee for 7 years and still play today. That game NEEDS to be played on a GameCube controller, or a very specific layout designed after it. A huge reason is the analog stick, and the natural notches the gates give you
Take Fox and Falco's Up B recovery moves. I forget the exact number, but there are between 336-348 distinct angles that they can travel while doing that move, and if you're good enough, you can pull off some CRAZY recoveries by hitting some precise angles to just barely avoid someone or make a beeline for the ledge. I'm not an amazing fox player, but my angles are insane and I can only do it with a GameCube controller, or maybe a box style one with practice.
Having the tactile feedback of "I'm *this* far away from this notch" gives me so much more accuracy than I could ever get from a circular gated controller. Even simple stuff like walking straight forward in Mario or 64 Zelda is so much more difficult on a modern controller
Octagonal gates are so good, I wish it was still a thing in modern games, or at least having the corners a bit more pronounced so it is easier to hit them, it also makes it easier for me to hit the other angles because if I can't feel a corner it means I am inbetween them.
While I don't mind circular gaters, it has become a pain replaying certain games and to adjust my character because I usually am a bit off and the character starts drifting slightly to one side, or when playing in my steam deck sometimes I will quickly press down on the left stick but I usually end up hitting a bit more to the left than what I wanted
the time of this video could not be any better. ive been scouring youtube for all videos n64 controller related
There is a modern day GameCube controller with all the necessary buttons... its the Doyoki GameCube Joycon for switch. Works extremely well and feels great. Only issue is that the controller is based on joycon... great for a Nintendo Switch but not so much for a pc.
Well there is a way to test if some switch games would play better with an octagonal gate. There are aftermarket switch pro controller shells with an octagonal thumb stick gate and I've thought about buying one before.
Now the pro controller still lacks the stick resistance that makes it easier to stay in the 8 directions when the stick is travelling.
But fun fact: the joycon have a little bit of that octagonal stick resistance going on. It's not as strong as on a GameCube controller but it's definitely there.
Playing the original Super Monkey Ball games with the GameCubes octagonal gate is a must! It helps so much when needing to precisely move through tightroping challenges and if you speedrun the games, it’s the only way do consistently do a lot of strategies (especially the pause strats)
I have honestly been seriously considering getting octagonal gate aftermarket shell for the switch pro controller for the reasons you said.
I prefer the octagonal gate on the games that were designed for it, but I’m perfectly at peace with modern controllers’ circular gates. I think the extended range of movement without the snapping leaves the choice up to the game designers as to what to do with the controls. It has a fluidity to it that makes it feel like *you* are really in control instead of working within the constraints of the controller.
As far as the octagonal gates... I dunno. There's definitely games where it would provide an advantage (Link's Awakening for Switch, I set up an 8BitDo controller with a profile that told it the d-pad is an analog stick, so I could play with a d-pad instead), and Nintendo of course designs their games around their controller.
But then if you play third party stuff on a Nintendo system with octagonal gates, when the game was designed around the PlayStation and Dreamcast or Xbox competition that does not have octagonal gates, the gates can feel awful.
I think the ideal would be a controller that has a way to easily switch between a round gate and octagonal gate depending on the game you want to play, but I don't know how they'd do that and keep it simple, cheap, and not prone to breaking.
Something to bring up also is the deadzones of old controllers and how they're different now. The Resident Evil thing makes a lot of sense. When I was playing REmake1 and RE0 last year with a PS4 controller on a dpad I was like soooo scared of the idea of playing them with an analogue stick on Gamecube since like that dpad is too small for good tankie movement and I've always found tankies on stick uncomfortable compared to digital input. RE4 is my favorite game ever but I only ever play on keyboard+mouse since I always found playing on controller odd due to having to play on an analogue stick in order to make the aiming snappy. I bought a PS3 controller that year and messed around with the RE Gamecube games with the analogue stick and they felt perfectly fine due to the deadzones on older controllers being different than they are now. It created a thing where when I'm playing older 3D games I only use that PS3 controller bc of that. God Hand is the most apparent example since that game feels awkward on a modern stick but great on an older one. I think the deadzone thing + the octagonal gate makes the Gamecube RE games really perfect for them also. They knew that the dpad was too small for good movement so the octagonal gate working as a way to add more precision would make a game like RE4 even more perfect on both the Wii and Cube. God Hand would probably play perfect on a GC controller, minus missing a button. Now imagine how good classic RE would play with an arcade stick, lmao.
I love the gate, but would also place the GC controller has my favorite controller overall in general. Perfect hand feel, giant A button rests right under my thumb, large gentle triggers are comfortable to press, and the ridges on the stick are the bomb.
I’d have to agree the gate has value when it comes to platformers, especially those that are fixed camera. Love playing the old LEGO games with the GC controller.
I think there's lots of missed potential with the GCN face button layout. Having all of them be different shapes surrounding a big center (A) button did wonders in familiarizing myself with the layout without having to memorize the labels of the shape themselves.
What a brilliant insight. I've always just dismissed this aspect of the GameCube controller as a flaw. After playing the remake of the first Resident Evil on the PC recently, I can see your point about how it could have made the game more enjoyable.
I really want a fully featured modern controller with the Octagonal Gate. I just finished modding my Wii and when I messed around with some gamecube titles, I forgot how much I missed the controller.
From a general standpoint, I prefer controllers with a circular gate. Even if it has no or minimal impact on input interpretation, it just feels more natural in my mind to have that full 360 degrees of motion. However, the examples you brought up are very compelling and I never consciously realized how much of an impact it potentially has on the feel of a game. Every Resident Evil game that is on the Gamecube plays best on that system. And I never thought about how Link's Awakening should be technically possible to play on Switch with the Gamecube controller but how the octagonal gate would greatly benefit that unconventional control style. I might consider that for whenever I replay that game in the future.
The only game I've played off the top of my head that I've had problems using the octagonal gate with is Sonic Adventure, but I suspect that's more due to a combination of that game's movement being quite sensitive and a little bit jank to begin with (and I'm saying that as someone who adores the game) and the sensitivity of it not quite gelling with the octagonal gate, and me personally being used to speedrunning the game with a controller with a circular gate. I do remember playing the game a few years ago with a GameCube controller before I started speedrunning and it playing perfectly fine, so I think it's probably just me putting so many hours into using the circular gate.
Something that proves your point about an octagonal gate working better for 3D World is the Crash Bandicoot games. The original versions of Crash 2 and 3 (Crash 1 didn't support analog control on PS1) didn't snap your stick movements to 8 directions like 3D World did, so using an analog stick with those games results in unnaturally smooth movement that the levels aren't really designed for, to the point where a lot of people actually preferred using the D-Pad. The N. Sane Trilogy remaster actually implemented the 3D World-esque 8 direction snap, to a point where it almost feels like the stick movements are only 8 directions, and I personally think the platforming feels a lot better like that. However, I've realized that when playing the originals on an emulator, my issues with the stick movement are mostly fixed just by playing with a GameCube controller thanks to the octagonal gate.
Super Monkey Ball's another game that feels perfect with a GameCube controller, to the point where using a circular stick kind of feels to me like I'm playing at a disadvantage. I haven't played any of them aside from the original two (unless you want to count the GBA one, which was the only one I'd played for a long time), but at least in those games you can tell that the movement is designed for the octagonal gate, in a way that's hard to explain unless you try it for yourself with and without an octagonal gate. It just feels _right_ with the GameCube's analog stick, whereas with anything else it feels like it almost snaps to four directions.
I was actually think of mentioning Crash but wanted to keep the video short! It's great that you mention it because I know exactly what you're talking about. It's something I noticed when I played the N Sane Trilogy is how the analog stick controls were very different to the originals more organic movement. I'm actually probably in a minority because I prefer the more natural movements of the PS1 analog controls. I never found it to hinder gameplay much since I can switch to the dpad on the fly if I want, mainly for those 2D sections. But y'know you may be right anyway because despite my own preference towards the original controls, I did notice the N Sane controls to be more consistent overall. Making platforming feel more accurate. It's incredibly strange to prefer how one controls feels, yet getting better results with another control feel. I may have to try a GameCube controller with the PS1 games if it worked for you so well!
The octagonal gate is the entire reason I can't play Super Monkey Ball with anything but a GameCube controller. The long straightaways are just damn near impossible without it!
I like how you use frogger music for your outdo music
The Octagonal gate is something I never missed, but I also don't mind really. I've never really thought I needed it for most games I've played on N64, Gamecube, or Wii. I also probably sound crazy, but I prefer playing Galaxy on a Pro controller on the Switch. I can see the appeal of playing 2D games with one, though. A big thing I've always hated and had to compromise within 2D games is my hand being uncomfortable using a D-pad or dealing with the imprecision of analog sticks; an Octagonal gate would fix both.
I actually totally agree with you on this. The octagonal gate works better for 2D platformers and games like Super Monkey Ball as well. There’s really no downside to having it, because it works well with full 3D-movement games also. I’d love to see it return, alongside the GameCube face button layout, in some future controller. Though, modern control sticks are way better imo. It would be cool to see a blend of new and old controller styles! Best of the best.
I would highly recommend buying an octagonal gate shell for the modern controllers. I got one for my switch pro controller, and it works perfectly.
I can't find evidence of it now, but I could've sworn I read something a while back about a stick that used magnets to mimic an octagonal gate. The idea is you'd have magnets at the 8 directions, and you'd feel some resistance at those 8 points, like you would with an octagonal gate. The difference would be that you could turn off the magnetization for games that play better with smooth 360° motion, so you'd theoretically have the best of both worlds. Not sure how expensive that would be though
That sounds pretty interesting. I'd love to see that properly conceptualized. I was following the Panda controller during it's development as it seemed like the one true successor to the GCN controller that could adapt for modern play. Too bad they shut it down.
Amazing video! Food-for-thought videos on RUclips, even if it's one about a control layout, really goes a long way for me in general. I have some thoughts that I wanted to share about my experience with... *video game controllers*... shivers
Pretty recently I started diversifying my tastes with more retro 2D platformers and 2D/2.5D indie titles. On the original controllers a lot of those games were probably fine, but on modern controllers it was the bane of my existence. After watching this video, I'm curious about the result of my performance if I used a GameCube controller or a Classic Controller Pro for most of my retro gaming needs.
Modern controllers really don't cut most of the games I play anymore. I struggled TERRIBLY with games like Celeste due to the DualSense's peculiar d-pad making diagonal jumps more difficult. Now I'm curious to how I'd perform with an octagonal gate on a lot of games I play. I'll look into buying a GameCube Controller + Adapter in my future.
The Dreamcast has a strange but interesting compromise between the two. The outer ring is circular but the joystick “snaps” slightly into the main 8 directions. Giving you a tactile feedback when you pass them. I don’t think we’ll ever see that again.
Retro Righters has a controller called Duelist which features an octagon outer ring.
Shout out to the Neo Geo CD controller’s clicky stick. I don’t have enough disposable income to justify buying a controller, but the joystick/d-pad hybrid is fairly unique and also sort of serves as an interesting stopgap between d-pads and analog sticks.
U are correct, it makes a difference, see how smash pro player controller are and u will see they have made extra notches to help some precise moves. I did those notches on my Xbox One controller and now I can run STRAIGHT ON EVERY GAME instead of walking slightly to the left... And I have a GameCube controller for my Wiii and I must stay It so well done, gripping it its another world
I've never thought about it before because I don't play a lot of Nintendo games from N64 and on, and what's more is these days I primarily only play games with an emulator instead of the original equipment. However, now that you've got me thinking about it, I can certainly see the appeal of being able to snap into cardinal directions. I too have a wandering motion when playing games when the sensitivity is set too high, and you can't always change it in every game. I'm thinking that perhaps it would be a fun project idea to make a controller that had octagonal gates. Just need to get an ESP microcontroller with built-in Bluetooth, make a board with some buttons and maybe get some Hall effect sticks, a battery pack and 3D print a shell.
As they say, why buy it when you can DIY it for ten times the cost.
the gamecube controller is used in competitive Mario kart 8 thanks to a glitch in the game wherein you can gain like double the speed in air time using a gc controller. also I think you would absolutely adore the shell swap mods available for switch pro controllers, which add the octagonal gate to the switch's native controller.
Ocarina randomizer no logic taught me VERY fast that Xbox controllers weren't gonna cut it for me. Bought an adapter from 8bitdo for my GameCube controller and I'm loving it. Also tempted to buy the 8bitdo mod kit for one of my old N64 controllers.
Surprised you didnt mention fighting games or skating games. being able to hit cardinals consistently is really good for those games, sad that the gamecube button layout doesnt fit most fighting games
I thinks it situational based on the level design and camera movement. There a reason why Mario 64 DS trys to compensate for the D-pad by having the camera snap in ways that set you up to only need 45 degree angels as much as it's possible too.
A game that demands more 45 or 90 degree movment in the 3d space will feel better with an oct gate, where as a more free form movment game will be better with the circle desing.
I think the N64’s stick is a great transition between 2D and 3D gaming. Marrying aspects of both to keep some familiarity to gamers who only known a D-Pad.
Surprisingly the N64 IS the perfect 2D controller
It has a somewhat similar "SEGA" layout with 6 face buttons, but all C are the same size, so changing back to 4 buttons, 2 triggers makes it feel natural, and when you want to add the B/A buttons, it feels good for that
The Dpad is also super nice, much better than the SNES one, bar none
It may also be worth mentioning that those octagonal sticks use plastic stick boxes unlike modern controllers that regrettably use metal in the stick boxes
W music choices 🔥 also loved the video
My beef with the GameCube controller is the triggers hurt to use for super fast tech so I prefer modern controllers but I do wish we had a controller with a modern trigger but the old-school octagonal gate.
Idk it mostly comes off as a simplicity transition goin into the 3d era and accessibility otherwise. Most 3D games you have full movement abd i find myself regretting the notches and added clunk from a gate, and even in precision titles (like but not limited to smash melee) you still want to be hitting angles besides the 8 rather consistently. I see some utility in it helping people new to games though, as having several key, easy to understand angles already marked and even guided into really simplifies control and learning curve with the controller
I use octagonal gates on my arcade sticks because round or square gates don't work well for fighting games. Gives you the definitive feedback you need to know if you're pressing the direction you need.
I think that it has mostly been phased out, noting that most if not all games mentioned are "retro" and made by Nintendo who had pushed the most for octaganal gates.
The only real use of gating of a stick is for pecision for speed running or fighting games and for more antiquated games that are still using 8 directional movement or aiming.
when i played RE1 i played using a 3rd party GC controller that had the gate. it was really nice and fit that game. however i think we are past the point where we need the gate. i think the way games are developed most of the time now benefit more from full directional sticks. however i do love the gate and wish there were ways of using it in the modern landscape
Any controller is going to suit the games on the system because the games are made with the controller in mind.
Loving the video so far keep em coming
I think about the octagonal gate missing in new controllers more than I care to admit. Locking into angles spoiled me heavy leaving the GC/Wii era. Theres been enough times where a game is asking me to hold a cardinal direction that Im certain Im holding to not yearn for a return
never thought about it like this! anyone else think that an octagonal gate would be sweet for tekken?
The 8 way gate is popular with arcade/fight stick players in fighting games
the 8-gate is sorely missed by me even today. I cannot get into Nintendo Switch Online's expansion pack content simply because the Pro Controller and the Joycons don't guide the movement action I want. It's as if I am using a sloppy manual transmission that takes real effort to find your upshift with these circular gates, versus the N64, Gamecube, and Wii Classic controller's gates that deliver that smooth nudge to get quick and precise inputs.
Octagonal is fine for a Nunchuck but... I don't think i would survive that Game Cube stuff.
Maybe it's just the Wii Class Con that gives me that nightmarish feeling.
octagonal gate helps make fighting game inputs less "slippery" and more consistent if you don't want to play on dpad
It does feel weird to play GameCube games, especially ports, without its controller. It was especially revelating to me when trying out emulation.
the octagon was perfect for speedrunning games as you often need precise angles for movement optimization and complicated tricks. i remember how much more difficult it was to run wind waker hd on wii u compared to gamecube just due to how often the octagon was needed. nintendo bring it back!
I like it but I find that too often it's slightly misaligned so it doesn't really do what it's supposed to do. But when it works it really works
The Switch port of RE4 plays great on a GameCube controller.
As an enjoyer of gyro controls with Flick-Stick configurations, I've always really wanted a gyro controller with an octagonal gate for the joysticks
Some smash players use alternate face plates for the switch pro controller with octogonal gates ! You might find one for your controller
I feel like Mario sunshine is designed around this gate. Playing Mario sunshine with a pro controller makes the fluddless platforming a nightmare to deal with.
doing the moon dungeon in majora's mask is fucking impossible without the octagonal gate
Someone needs to make an adapter for wii classic controllers to work on switch if it doesn't exist already, they have the same stick design as the GameCube and are only missing the clickable sticks.
9:00 I mean, the Wii U version of 3D World was compatible with both the Classic Controller and Nunchuck so it's not like this is some unanswerable question
ngl im too scared to try playing Super Monkey Ball without the octagonal gate
Guess what? Super Smash Bros. Melee players modify the octagonal gate with additional notches for enhanced precision with certain fighter's movements. It's almost never mentioned, but it exists.