Thanks for the game but - Is it possible that Dice Tower's "Seal of Excellence" is no longer represent their actual opinion about the game? (This question is based on visiting "The Reckoners" page in Dice Tower's official website.
I had backed this game on KS, but dropped my pledge at the last minute. The game (shipped to Australia) was coming in at around $170 which would have made this my most expensive game. I’m glad the game is getting good reviews, and I do have some regret at not keeping my pledge, but it was just so expensive.
@@soulsongtraveler Same!! Never heard of the books before the board game came out. Just acquired the game and I'm on Chapter 7 of the first book now too. :)
I'm changing DT slogan. The Dice Tower: A show about reviewing amazing games and the people whose bank accounts suffer from it. This game looks like something I would easily get to the table and everyone would have fun with. Bit too pricey for me, $100 has to be some crazy amazing / replayable game. That said, I will look for sales of this because it looks really good.
Very little has actually been said about what was great about the game, other than it's awesome components or theme. And while those are important it seems that the gameplay isn't up to to par with those or we'd have heard more about it. I'd like there to be a game first which is enhanced by theme and pieces. I love Brandon Sanderson but I'm still on the fence about this game.
I don't know. When I first saw this game, I thought it had awesome components but I passed on it initially because I wasn't familiar with the books at all. Then the game came back onto my radar when I saw Rodney's How-to-Play video as well as a play-through from Jon (Gets Games). The puzzle-y style gameplay is what sold me on it and the components are just gravy. The theme isn't pasted on and looks really interesting to me. I can't wait for my copy. :-)
See hearing the gameplay is a puzzle style makes it sound interesting! I think I'll wait till more people play it and there are more opnions out there. But It'll be staying on my radar for sure
I was actually disappointed by the mechanical implementation of the theme. It would be so cool for a game where the researching and discovering of the weaknesses was more than just a track, but instead led to different endgame puzzles. Here it is basically a shield that has to be taken out first.
Mike Martinez I would be OK for it to spoil the books. I mean it's just another way to discover their abilities. But I agree that the research thingy acting like a shield is a little desappointing.
You don't HAVE to research before attacking most characters. Seems like thats just another path to success that you could potentially mess up if you don't coordinate not attacking the villan being researched. cuz that would be wasted damage. seems fine to me.
Mike Martinez - I helped playtest the game from close to its inception. The research component used to be more involved, and it made the gameplay clunky. While I agree it would have been cool to see the weaknesses play a larger role, the uniformity of the research helps it be more streamlined.
I passed on the KS because it does not spoil the books. Might work as a legacy game or with a campaign that introduces new mechanics along the way. Though I have to admit, Tom's enthusiam has piqued my interest. But then we run into Kickstarter exclusives/special editions. Will there be an upgrade pack available at retail to get me to the full game? Or an option to get the KS version of the game in an upcoming KS?
It's immersion breaking when a game (movie, etc.) deviates from the source material and why should those of us that have read the book be in-effect punished for having read it?!?
Well that could easily be turned around to why should those who become interested in the books by this games existence have the books spoiled on them by the game? By the very nature of the medium being used the game would have to be an abstracted version of the story anyways, because things still have to work as a game, which may not quite work with being exacting to the books. To me, this is why a game should always be something that takes place in the world of the story that's inspiring it, rather than actually try to retell the story itself, that way it doesn't interfere with people's enjoyment of the books if they haven't read them yet, and those that have read the books don't hold the game to a standard that really is not fair to hold since a board game cannot exactly recreate a novel.
If you were still wondering, there are KS editions still available for pre-order on our website (nauvoogames.com). Additionally, we will be offering promo packs of the Epic Cards and Equipment Cards for purchase after the game releases to retail for those that missed the opportunity to acquire those in the first place. We try to avoid making any game content "exclusive" because everyone should get the full game experience, so we typically opt for promos instead.
I've often thought Sentinels of the Multiverse could benefit from dedicated tracking boards for each character and enemy and location, but thought it would make an already-fiddly game even more ungainly. But then I see this, and while it's definitely ungainly and seems to take even more space potentially than SotM, there's an elegance to it and a satisfying physical component to it that I'm now thinking of how to customize the tray system. I have a ton of blank white dice that I've never used yet. Instead of each of the tracking marker pieces, maybe they can all be represented on the sides of dice and just flipped to the side needed to indicate whatever that current state is? As to the story, I tried reading Elantris way back in the day after it getting tons of hype, but I realized quickly that Sanderson's style isn't for me. He seems very committed to codifying the 'rules' of his world, be it unique magic systems, government styles, and here (it seems) "all evil superheroes must be defeated using research about their powers." This world seems right up my alley, but I'm worried it's going to be way too rigid about the type of story it's going to tell. Fortunately, I have a couple of dozen other books in the queue, so I don't have to decide on reading it anytime soon.
Kind of interesting design with all the trays to track things and place dice, but not really sure the overall gameplay is really kickin' it. Not sure about variability game to game either.
Thanks for your comment. If you're interested in the gameplay, I suggest checking out Tom's playthrough (ruclips.net/video/di4tJLsVD50/видео.html) or Jon Gets Games playthrough (ruclips.net/video/tKu54bUaFds/видео.html) which may address your concerns.
I'm with you! This game and Too Many Bones... are too many bucks. I've only paid $100+ for Gloomhaven, which is the only one with enough content to be worth that price!
Just finished the 3rd book and loved it but this game is way to expensive. Also, this needs to have an animated movie or a comic at least. Where is the KS for that?
Now, the two characters that are - well - connected. Being super vague here. Do they just not address that at all, let them be totally separate? I'm assuming the game doesn't spoil the first book, yes?
Played this for the first time last weekend. Yeah, this game is tough. It goes in the category i refer to as "how would you like your teeth kicked in today" because you can win, but it's a fight
There needs to be a RECKONING against the flood of overproduced Kickstarter games. I've lost track of the number of games I was interested in but said no thanks to the $100+ price tag. There's almost no expensive game I've seen that couldn't easily have been $70 or less with sensible components.
I mentioned this in the Watch It Played video for this. I don't think this game needs a 100 dollar point of entry price and I'm not sure the gameplay warrants it. Which sucks because it does look fun and the components are great, but unnecessary to play the game. Now they are necessary by design choice making us really have to weigh how much we want to come off 100 dollars for a game that could have just as easily cost 40.
Yeah, it's the unfortunate nature of the Kickstarter beast that overproduced minis and components get the funding. It's just irritating though that the makers don't offer a budget version. There is zero reason for the giant minis in Cthulhu Wars, Blood Rage, Kingdom Death, or Rising Sun, and all of those could have easily offered small minis. Heck I'd even settle for cardboard stands. I've been appreciating The Expanse boardgame lately. It's bare bones with its board and markers and only cost $30 and I love it. I really don't care that much about component quality, as long as vital components like cards aren't SO cheap that they fall apart easily. If Eldritch Horror was kickstarted today, it would have minis for every single investigator, monster, ancient one, and famous city, and it would cost $300.
For solo play, maybe? But for 2+ players, everyone is acting simultaneously and you want to be able to easily see what other players are doing. So for 2+ players, I don't think it would work well as an app at all.
Is it me or does it seem just similar to The Boys? Although The Reckoners is more hopeful and optimistic but The Boys is dark, realistic and nihilistic.
The 'alpha gamer' problem IS the designer's issue. I disagree, Tom. When I see this issue in co-operative games these days, my interest level plummets. Because every gaming group is imbalanced, and there are inevitably going to be those who speak up and those who don't ... and it's just not fun to play games where all the information is public and literally every move made by every player is potentially subject to long discussion. Based on this fact, plus the price, plus the fact that this game seems to pretty very little new to the table, I'm passing.
Corey Batten Spirit Island deals with the Alpha Player issue By making the individual player strategies fairly complex. I think it’s a brilliant solution.
@chuckm1961 That might resolve the problem for your group, but it actually doesn't stop the problem. Just because the interactions are complicated doesn't mean someone can't try to alpha game.
To me those plastic trays look and feel awful and super cheap. I would much rather have thick cardboard over flimsy trays any day. And the game play looks to be much like Elder Sign, except the game takes a huge amount of space, and is way more expensive.
How do products designed to keep things more organized become "fiddley"? I have Wasteland Express and the Game Trayz are great. The game would hardly ever hit the table if we had to fumble through baggies and such.
Thanks for the review Tom! We are honoured to receive the Dice Tower Seal of Excellence.
It's a really solid game. Everyone at my table enjoyed it and wanted to jump back in on harder difficulties each time.
Thanks for the game but - Is it possible that Dice Tower's "Seal of Excellence" is no longer represent their actual opinion about the game?
(This question is based on visiting "The Reckoners" page in Dice Tower's official website.
Reading the books now. Really like it so far. You talked about them a week or so ago. Can't wait to try the game when it comes out. Thanks Tom.
I had backed this game on KS, but dropped my pledge at the last minute. The game (shipped to Australia) was coming in at around $170 which would have made this my most expensive game.
I’m glad the game is getting good reviews, and I do have some regret at not keeping my pledge, but it was just so expensive.
I've just finished reading Steelheart based plainly on your recommendation. Great review Tom, although you need to work on your metaphores a bit
Great job Seth and Brett! Looks fun!
The first time I read a book because of a board game :)
Ha ha me too!
reading it right now (because of the game)
Same
@@soulsongtraveler Same!! Never heard of the books before the board game came out. Just acquired the game and I'm on Chapter 7 of the first book now too. :)
I'm changing DT slogan. The Dice Tower: A show about reviewing amazing games and the people whose bank accounts suffer from it.
This game looks like something I would easily get to the table and everyone would have fun with. Bit too pricey for me, $100 has to be some crazy amazing / replayable game. That said, I will look for sales of this because it looks really good.
Very little has actually been said about what was great about the game, other than it's awesome components or theme. And while those are important it seems that the gameplay isn't up to to par with those or we'd have heard more about it. I'd like there to be a game first which is enhanced by theme and pieces. I love Brandon Sanderson but I'm still on the fence about this game.
I don't know. When I first saw this game, I thought it had awesome components but I passed on it initially because I wasn't familiar with the books at all. Then the game came back onto my radar when I saw Rodney's How-to-Play video as well as a play-through from Jon (Gets Games). The puzzle-y style gameplay is what sold me on it and the components are just gravy. The theme isn't pasted on and looks really interesting to me. I can't wait for my copy. :-)
See hearing the gameplay is a puzzle style makes it sound interesting! I think I'll wait till more people play it and there are more opnions out there. But It'll be staying on my radar for sure
Glad to see you true soloing coop games from time to time! :)
The game looks great.
I have missed the KS, but in Rahdos video someone from the company mentioned there will be an expansion KS campaign this year.
I had the same. When I saw and backed the kickstarter I start reading the books. I like them.
I was actually disappointed by the mechanical implementation of the theme. It would be so cool for a game where the researching and discovering of the weaknesses was more than just a track, but instead led to different endgame puzzles. Here it is basically a shield that has to be taken out first.
true, i felt the same a little, but it would have spoiled the books severely
This is an example of following the source material too closely. Why do the epics have to have their book weaknesses in the game?
Mike Martinez I would be OK for it to spoil the books. I mean it's just another way to discover their abilities. But I agree that the research thingy acting like a shield is a little desappointing.
You don't HAVE to research before attacking most characters. Seems like thats just another path to success that you could potentially mess up if you don't coordinate not attacking the villan being researched. cuz that would be wasted damage. seems fine to me.
Mike Martinez - I helped playtest the game from close to its inception. The research component used to be more involved, and it made the gameplay clunky. While I agree it would have been cool to see the weaknesses play a larger role, the uniformity of the research helps it be more streamlined.
Already love Sanderson and Steelheart so I'm super pumped to play this game. Tom's review just cemented that.
I saw this on KS and passed mostly because of the cost. Looks interesting though.
I passed on the KS because it does not spoil the books. Might work as a legacy game or with a campaign that introduces new mechanics along the way. Though I have to admit, Tom's enthusiam has piqued my interest. But then we run into Kickstarter exclusives/special editions. Will there be an upgrade pack available at retail to get me to the full game? Or an option to get the KS version of the game in an upcoming KS?
As of last week, preorder of the KS edition was still possible on the KS page.
Wait...You passed on the game BECAUSE it doesn't spoil the books for people????
It's immersion breaking when a game (movie, etc.) deviates from the source material and why should those of us that have read the book be in-effect punished for having read it?!?
Well that could easily be turned around to why should those who become interested in the books by this games existence have the books spoiled on them by the game? By the very nature of the medium being used the game would have to be an abstracted version of the story anyways, because things still have to work as a game, which may not quite work with being exacting to the books.
To me, this is why a game should always be something that takes place in the world of the story that's inspiring it, rather than actually try to retell the story itself, that way it doesn't interfere with people's enjoyment of the books if they haven't read them yet, and those that have read the books don't hold the game to a standard that really is not fair to hold since a board game cannot exactly recreate a novel.
If you were still wondering, there are KS editions still available for pre-order on our website (nauvoogames.com). Additionally, we will be offering promo packs of the Epic Cards and Equipment Cards for purchase after the game releases to retail for those that missed the opportunity to acquire those in the first place. We try to avoid making any game content "exclusive" because everyone should get the full game experience, so we typically opt for promos instead.
The game being really hard makes sense considering the story. Those Epics were really hard to take down in the books.
Necessary Evil, a rpg by Savage Worlds, has this plot. Check it out if you like the theme and want to rpg it!
I've often thought Sentinels of the Multiverse could benefit from dedicated tracking boards for each character and enemy and location, but thought it would make an already-fiddly game even more ungainly. But then I see this, and while it's definitely ungainly and seems to take even more space potentially than SotM, there's an elegance to it and a satisfying physical component to it that I'm now thinking of how to customize the tray system. I have a ton of blank white dice that I've never used yet. Instead of each of the tracking marker pieces, maybe they can all be represented on the sides of dice and just flipped to the side needed to indicate whatever that current state is?
As to the story, I tried reading Elantris way back in the day after it getting tons of hype, but I realized quickly that Sanderson's style isn't for me. He seems very committed to codifying the 'rules' of his world, be it unique magic systems, government styles, and here (it seems) "all evil superheroes must be defeated using research about their powers." This world seems right up my alley, but I'm worried it's going to be way too rigid about the type of story it's going to tell. Fortunately, I have a couple of dozen other books in the queue, so I don't have to decide on reading it anytime soon.
Co-op games should be hard, that's a +. If 4 people play it 3 times that's cheaper entertainment than a movie.
Kind of interesting design with all the trays to track things and place dice, but not really sure the overall gameplay is really kickin' it. Not sure about variability game to game either.
Thanks for your comment. If you're interested in the gameplay, I suggest checking out Tom's playthrough (ruclips.net/video/di4tJLsVD50/видео.html) or Jon Gets Games playthrough (ruclips.net/video/tKu54bUaFds/видео.html) which may address your concerns.
What happened to the Tom and Melody play through video?
Melody is in college now. She doesn't live at home anymore.
I think I am passing on this one, I am reading Mistborn though...
goodness, you're in for a real treat
Enjoy! One of the best series I've ever read.
I want to play this game so badly, but the publisher has outpriced me. It's sadly becoming an increasing reality in the industry.
I'm with you! This game and Too Many Bones... are too many bucks. I've only paid $100+ for Gloomhaven, which is the only one with enough content to be worth that price!
On sale now for $60 at minute market if you still haven't got it after these years.
I started reading the book last night because of this review. Still in the beginning but so far I am not dissapointed.
Just finished the 3rd book and loved it but this game is way to expensive. Also, this needs to have an animated movie or a comic at least. Where is the KS for that?
I never knew that Ian Brandon Something made board games!
I never even heard of this books until this game, but the game looks fun, regardless. :-)
They could totally do a The Boys version of this game
Now, the two characters that are - well - connected. Being super vague here. Do they just not address that at all, let them be totally separate? I'm assuming the game doesn't spoil the first book, yes?
We avoid all spoilers in the game. So those who have read the books, will notice some differences from what turned out to be.
You are saving humanity against super villians, It makes sense it's hard (and I wouldn't want it other way).
Played this for the first time last weekend. Yeah, this game is tough. It goes in the category i refer to as "how would you like your teeth kicked in today" because you can win, but it's a fight
There needs to be a RECKONING against the flood of overproduced Kickstarter games. I've lost track of the number of games I was interested in but said no thanks to the $100+ price tag. There's almost no expensive game I've seen that couldn't easily have been $70 or less with sensible components.
I mentioned this in the Watch It Played video for this. I don't think this game needs a 100 dollar point of entry price and I'm not sure the gameplay warrants it. Which sucks because it does look fun and the components are great, but unnecessary to play the game. Now they are necessary by design choice making us really have to weigh how much we want to come off 100 dollars for a game that could have just as easily cost 40.
Yeah, it's the unfortunate nature of the Kickstarter beast that overproduced minis and components get the funding. It's just irritating though that the makers don't offer a budget version. There is zero reason for the giant minis in Cthulhu Wars, Blood Rage, Kingdom Death, or Rising Sun, and all of those could have easily offered small minis. Heck I'd even settle for cardboard stands.
I've been appreciating The Expanse boardgame lately. It's bare bones with its board and markers and only cost $30 and I love it. I really don't care that much about component quality, as long as vital components like cards aren't SO cheap that they fall apart easily.
If Eldritch Horror was kickstarted today, it would have minis for every single investigator, monster, ancient one, and famous city, and it would cost $300.
I've never paid over $40 for a game.
and I've never paid for sex!
Seams similar premise to The Boys.
Would it be better as an app?
For solo play, maybe? But for 2+ players, everyone is acting simultaneously and you want to be able to easily see what other players are doing. So for 2+ players, I don't think it would work well as an app at all.
Sounds like The Boys, I wonder which IP came out first
The Boys - originally published in 2006 (Vs Steelheart in 2013.
Is it me or does it seem just similar to The Boys? Although The Reckoners is more hopeful and optimistic but The Boys is dark, realistic and nihilistic.
Looks like they went out of their way to make the cards hard to sleeve.. everything seems like odd sizes.
The cards are designed to fit standard mini euro and tarot sizes for sleeves.
Brett Sobol thanks for the heads up... It was hard to tell from the video. Looks great!
Co-ops always walk the fine line between too easy and unwinnable. This game does it perfectly!
The gameplay doesn't really interest me, neither does the theme, but them components... DAYUM!
“Evil superheroes”? You mean like supervillians?
Technically yes, but if you read the books evil superheroes makes sense.
im allergic to games with to much dice
Too many dice? I don't understand.
I just dont like dice rolling games. That seams to be the core of this game
The 'alpha gamer' problem IS the designer's issue. I disagree, Tom. When I see this issue in co-operative games these days, my interest level plummets. Because every gaming group is imbalanced, and there are inevitably going to be those who speak up and those who don't ... and it's just not fun to play games where all the information is public and literally every move made by every player is potentially subject to long discussion.
Based on this fact, plus the price, plus the fact that this game seems to pretty very little new to the table, I'm passing.
I think alpha gamer is a group problem. We do not have any in our group, because we choose to kick them out.
@chuckm1961 Besides real time games and games where players have hidden information, what other coop games are there without the alpha gamer issue?
Corey Batten Spirit Island deals with the Alpha Player issue By making the individual player strategies fairly complex. I think it’s a brilliant solution.
@chuckm1961 That might resolve the problem for your group, but it actually doesn't stop the problem. Just because the interactions are complicated doesn't mean someone can't try to alpha game.
Alpha gaming is definitely a group issue, not a game one.
Wow, that's one crazy overproduced game.
Also a great game
To me those plastic trays look and feel awful and super cheap. I would much rather have thick cardboard over flimsy trays any day.
And the game play looks to be much like Elder Sign, except the game takes a huge amount of space, and is way more expensive.
C r s agreed, I would have loved to see like a dual thickness cardboard setup instead.
Lol You must have never encountered a game that utilizes Game Trayz products. They're far from thin, cheap, flimsy, etc. 😆
Yup. They are awesome. :-)
I like the trays in Mechs Vs Minions not sure who makes them.
10000% agree
the plastic trays look fiddely and thin
How do products designed to keep things more organized become "fiddley"? I have Wasteland Express and the Game Trayz are great. The game would hardly ever hit the table if we had to fumble through baggies and such.
Newcago, Steelheart, Epics? Ugh...
please adjust sound. not a fan of hearing you inhale every second.