if you guys liked the video go ahead and join the discord to keep the convo going :)) link in description CORRECTIONS: Yoo this was my first competitive smash video that actually did well so I should take the time to make some corrections: The video is still good, but I've gotten some feedback and I don't want to give you guys any incorrect info. - Marth's moves, including side-B do actually kill earlier than Roy, what I should've said is Roy's hitboxes are more generous, and still insanely strong, and you'll land them more frequently with Roy, but, yeah, Marth is stronger in most moves. - Roy/Chrom's nair is more of a combo move throughout percents while Marth/Lucina's is a combo move at first but turns into more of a kill move later on. Not something I mentioned during the video, just, something I missed. Either than that the video is perfect lets goooo also reply to this comment if you have something to add :)
I pretty much agree overall My personal take: chrom and lucina lose their fun factor to me through not having anything going on with their sword hitboxes and the consistency is kind of lame, makes kills a little too easy in many cases because everything kills eventually even with a little staling Marth and Roy having gimmicks make them so much more rewarding to play as you can really slice stocks by playing to their strengths, tipper f smash and tipper side b are dopamine rushes not to mention roys too but more so Marths because those are harder to land Also the sound fx on those moves are clean, between chrom and lucina chroms sword sounds much better while lucinas is just like a dinky little slash fx idk And Roy has better up b and Marth has insane edgeguards too but that also applies to lucina though landing a tipper bair is NICE especially when it can gimp Though one big pitfall is that some tilts, mostly roys ftilt and uptilt or even Marths f smash are EXTREMELY punishable on shield even when spaced so it really limits how many ways you can shield pressure when you give swordies like them the "dumb to use on shield" moves Maybe some of my dislike towards lucina comes from watching the underdogs Australian yt because one of them is the best competitive player out of the four and he used lucina for a while but the other three think he's lame for dedicating time to the character And little z describes it best, lucina kinda bland water but Marth is kinda the fizzy water idk No disrespect intended with these opinions here I just find lucina and chrom real boring (especially since chrom up b got patched to avoid suicide wins)
@@plastickkerorolm4889 it's more like chrom plays like roy but he doesn't have to be close up, he has very similar combo routes Also Luigi isn't an echo so your point is not valid there anyway, whereas chrom is
@randompog8493 what I meant to say was marth. The only thing that's fairly similar is Jair. But chroms upair it's weaker but better to juggle. Chrom gets more tech chases because of his consistent dtilt. Chrom side b is also a more constant threat. As far as real echo fighters go I'd point out characters like daisy, Simon, dark pit, and dark Samus. Those characters are played almost the exact same way of not the exact same way in richter and daisy case.
But saying chrom plays like roy is more like saying doc plays like mario. Yes they have many similarities but they play completely different in practice.
The marth's in this game feel reminiscent of shouto characters in more traditional 2d fighters. Lucia is a pure fundamentals character. If you win with her, it's because you're probably better than your opponent. She's Ryu essentially. Roy takes the same fundamental idea and makes it as aggressive as possible. He's Ken. Chrom gives you a ton of absurdly strong tools, at the cost of punishing your mistakes harder. He's Akuma. And Marth is Dan because he's bad.
Ultimate has been out for a little over 4 years and Marth still hasn't really come into his own. At this point, most players are looking toward the next game and weening themselves off of this one. By this point, it's safe to say that the sauce just didn't come together in Marth's favor in this game. Is he low tier? Probably not, there's a definite chance he could be, but it seems most likely that he settled around somewhere in the mid tiers which is surprising for such a historically solid character. Everyone just moves too fast and there isn't enough hit stun for him to get anything off of his sour spots at low percent. Sure, he might kill you at 30 if he 2 frames you with a fully charged forward smash; but, compare that to the other bullshit in this game and it's clear that you just have to work harder as Marth.
@Shiokyuri but he’s still preforming as one of the most optimal Marth users. There is prob 1 and only 1 person better than him at Marth. But game 3 Leo with Marth did a reverse 3-0 so it’s pretty legendary
9:40 . It really depends on the move in question. Not all tipper attacks are created equal. There are some tippers such as fair, bair, and d-tilt that are so slightly better than Lucina's that it makes them way worse overall but then their are tippers like f-smash, f-tilt, nair, dancing blade, and u-tilt that kill way earlier than their counterparts of all the other clones. We are talking 40-50% earlier than their Lucina counterpart and 10-20% earlier than Roy. Then there's the beast that's tipper f-smash which is the 4th strongest f-smash in the game while Roy's hilt is sitting at 10th place. These differences make Marth the best in specific areas such as ledge trapping because the speed of the game is not a factor, he can threaten with his best tipper moves, and marthcina can cover all the ledge options. This argument is also true about Marth's tech chase game, especially since sour hits at mid percent means he can get them more. Jab lock into u-tilt, f-tilt or stutter-step tipper f-smash or d-smash are all realistic options because Marth would have full control of it. The Marth community believes that Marth is better with a more grounded playstyle because of his relative aerial weakness and inconsistency. Another think aspiring should realize is that hitting tipper is not always about max spacing. Depending on the frame of the move the tipper could be right next to Marth. Shield break will also favor Marth becaue he can go for kills earlier. If Lucina got a shield break at 35% then she ccould not take a stock but Marth probably could. Depending on the stage Marth may also have better plattform coverage as they could make certain tippers and smash attacks totally free. If Marth had to get buffed the main thing they would have to fix to make him work is dancing blade. The animation for the tipper forward hit completely lies about where the tipper hit box actually is, not to mention the fact that the hitbox itself is a literal sliver while Roy's is the majority of the blade. It's just off the sword animation itself so to get tipper you would basically have to whiff barely. It actually kills 5% earlier than Roy's so it should be regarded even higher than his but it isn't because of the inconsistency. This should be Marth's most dangerous tool but it isn't. If the devs gave Marth the same treatment as Roy half of his sword would be tipper and the other half would be sour.
After testing for a bit I learned that a lot of Marth's grounded moves actually kill earlier than Roy's, they just do fewer percent, whereas some of Roy's aerial moves deal fewer percent but kill earlier. Side B is the exception to the rule, Roy's is just better lol. I main Marth, but I admit that Roy's just better in this game. Good video btw! You have won a sub!
glad you enjoyed the video :) one thing I did realize too late was that roy/chrom’s nair is more of a combo move most of the time, but marth/lucina’s stops being a combo move in late percents and turns into more of a kill move. It seems to have more knockback growth
@@aann iirc Marth tipper nair is actually top 2 in terms of kill power, killing at around 125% Roy and Chrom’s can kill but it’s much harder. So I think you’re right, from what I can tell it’s actually pretty hard to kill with Roy’s nair, I think they meant to make it so Marth’s can kill and Roy’s makes it easier to combo into other moves, I mean, even at 100% you can still combo into jair with it, pretty interesting imo
I'm still genuinely shocked that Roy and Rob's side Bs have gone untouched throughout the entire lifetime of smash ultimate patches like how tf did these miss these moves lmao
Marth's Nair, Up-Air, Jab, Up-Tilt, every smash attack, and side b all kill earlier than Roy's with his sweetspot, everything else Roy has the edge in.
Something that is a bit understated about marth and lucina is that they play differently. They both have their own slightly different methods for racking damage and killing that make each more suitable for different playstyles and match ups. I know when I'm playing in the arena, i will freely switch between the two depending on my needs. I remember one time i was playing against my friend using lucina. I landed a tipped f tilt at the ledge that would have killed as marth and would have won. He started laughing because i had just explained why i sometimes will pick marth over lucina and had just switched off of marth to demonstrate my point.
I have been solo maining Marth for 10 months to see if he is really much worse than the other three. Yeah, he is. But he is also 10 times more fun. Getting a nair-1 to tipper forward smash feels godlike. I'm trash with Lucina now anyway because I'm so used to having to space.
Same happens here with me maining Lucina, I try Marth and my spacing is so sloppy and I’m pretty much leaving it to dumb luck until I get that random tipper and KO lol
I disagree. I main snake and Roy. Roy is a fun aggressive character. Ig it’s the noise his sweet spots make. It’s also just satisfying to kill my opponent at 60 while my brain is turned off. he has pretty much an opposite play style as snake so if I switch mid match it also just messes up my opponent’s rhythm lol
1:18 Roy was literally just broken in Melee (in the worst sense). Many of his attack animations don't have matching hitboxes for some reason. Like the hitbox for his dash attack is on his shoulder and is active toward the end of the move, with the sword swing being nothing more than an animation.
the reason they don't match is because it's _marth's_ frame data. while roy's attacks were mostly copied from marth, the animations aren't actually 1:1. some of roy's moves, like up air and dash attack, are slightly slower than marth's versions. this isn't inherently bad - it adds more distinct differences between the two - however, hal also copied marth's frame data for these moves. which they completely forgot to change. you can see evidence for this in the aforementioned dash attack, which is active on frames 8 - 11 on both characters. perfectly fine for marth, but on roy the active frame start way too early and end halfway through the sword swing.
@@gingerqueer22 that's interesting, I didn't know that. But the hitboxes aren't 1:1 right? I would expect Roy's dash attack to just have a ghost hitbox where Marth's sword would be on the same frames if that were the case. But his shoulder bash hitbox seems to come out earlier and kind of just cover the front of his body
I play all four of them, but I main Roy. Imo Roy does not feel like Marth anymore. Their sweetspots, falling speed, etc are to different for me to consider them very similair. I also think Roy is the best out of the four. Even if Chrom's recovery would be equal to Roy, Roy's sweet spots are not very hard to hit (at least for me) and double edge dance on Roy is very, very strong
based. I soul main Kaz, but I love to play Roy (undisputed best swordie), Marcina, and Ike, not Chrom though - with no horizontal recovery, and Roy's sweetspots already being generous, there's no real incentive for me to play Chrom besides just to flex. even Ike has his side B 🤷🏽♂️
Marth has the higher skill cealing and most potential of all four but no one invest enought time to exploit it. They just go with the e̶a̶s̶i̶e̶s̶t̶ safer option
Even if a player invested tons of hours into their Marth, the tippers are too inconsistent when you factor in the speed of playing against another live opponent. Think about how quickly Mythra can move around and imagine trying to hit the tiny sliver of a tipper against her while she's flying around - it doesn't matter how practiced the player is.
I feel this in my blood as I play Marth and Roy, Marth has so much potential but no one really plays the character anymore so no new tech is being discovered
BRO WHY U UNDERATED this video is criminally underated and has such a good editing style, fr u have the amazing potential to be a content creator, KEEP UP THE SMASH VIDS
Although I personally call them "The 4 Marths" Roy and Chrom feel like completely different characters at time lol. But holy shit your editing is impeccable, I wonder why you have so little subs.
IMHO, Marth is a little misunderstood. It hurts me to say this as a Marth main, but he's still worse than Lucina on average, though only slightly. Trying to tipper everything is really suboptimal for him now. Marth and Lucina both need to make use of kill confirms and hard reads to kill reliably (i.e. fundies), and when you're trying to tipper all your moves, that really kills the usefulness of combos for Marth, on top of wearing you out from spacing because the game is too fast paced to tipper everything. It sounds counterintuitive, but in general, Marth benefits from spacing just short of the tipper hitbox. Tippers are something that he should really only actively go for during juggles, hard reads, shield breaks, and as combo finishers. Otherwise, it's better to space near the tipper and exploit the lower knockback of the sours. Does it make him better than Lucina? I don't know. As long as Ignaize is the only Marth getting results in this way, I'm going to say that Marth is still worse than Lucina, but it's close. Regardless, I am a High Tier Marth believer. I think Marth is low-mid High Tier, Lucina and Chrom are upper High Tier, and Roy is lower Top Tier. All solid picks and totally viable, but Marth suffers from being much more investment-heavy.
I think is not even close personally, the two characters already struggle to function in the current meta and Marth is also inconsistent for the worse. The peaks are amazing but often you are also stuck at not killing at 170 while Lucina kills consistently (I think both Roy and Lucina are top tiers but Lucina is definitely on the lower part) Also I think Chrom is just "bad" (Like mid-tier bad), the character is incredible but he also just dies at 40 so easily
It's interesting that Lucina has fewer -2s than Roy does but because Roy dominates a lot more characters and has fewer losing MUs in total so he's a better character. Good video.
I kinda disagree that Marth is worse than Lucina. At a high level, a Lucina will end up more times than not just barely hitting the opponent with the tip with their fair or nair attacks in order for them to get back to a safe position if the opponent shields. And at that point, why not just play Marth instead and get the free tipper? I can understand why most players prefer Lucina for the consistency at that low or mid level, but I feel like if a high-level player took the time to get good at that spacing it could show much bigger returns than Lucina could.
Because the free tipper is usually a wasted opportunity. Marth's sourspot combo game and ability to confirm into tippers is what sets him apart from Lucina. Spacing for tippers 100% of the time locks you out of this and is a waste of effort. As a Marth main and High Tier Marth believer, I think he _is_ worse but only slightly. But yeah, if you want an example of a high-level player getting returns, MkLeo's your man. He spaces for tippers most of the time but he's actually good enough for it to work. Leo's Marth is mostly that good because Marth's a fundies character and Leo has insane fundies. Ignaize is pretty cracked too. IMHO, Leo's fundies are probably good because he's gotten to play so many characters and get results from them. With Ignaize, his knowledge of Marth is the part that stands out. He has fundies for sure, but I wouldn't compare anyone to Leo on that front.
You're only thinking in terms of neutral interactions. Lucina has a much easier time defending herself out of disadvantage or even just against rushdown characters that are too fast to reliably keep within tipper range. Marth's sourspot aerials will often trade or outright lose in interactions that would put Lucina into advantage.
I main lucina too. I used to main Marth and I play him for fun but it's insane the difference between my success with him and lucina. I struggle in elite smash with Marth but with lucina its way less of a struggle. The benefit of maining Marth or lucina imo is that you also naturally will get better at playing Roy and chrom. I started playing some Roy and it's insane how freaking easy that character is jfc. Maybe I should just main Roy. It's like how animals all evolve into crabs at some point. All Marth clone mains will evolve into Roy mains after realizing how freaking broken and easy he is lmao.
If Chrom had a decent recovery, I would probably use him instead of Roy as my secondary. I tend to be on the defensive side, though, so maybe having to be aggressive with Roy helps balance my play style.
If Chrom had Roy's Up B, he'd be top 5. Hell. If he had Ike Up B, he'd make it to top 10. The sword toss up really would make a world of difference. They did Chrom dirty for literally no reason.
@@Contrary22Look Ike Up B is definitely better, but don't lie lmao. He still doesn't have horizontal recovery like Ike does with side B, he's still super easy to gimp. It might move him up a few spots but nowhere near top 10.
I've mained Roy in every game he is in, so this may sound biased, but I think that what you said at 12:55 regarding Chrom's combos actually make him worse, since Roy's sourspots deal lower knock back, he can combo for longer periods of time before transitioning into his sweetspots to score a kill. Chrom can technically kill earlier on average, but Roy deals enough damage off of simple jab-to-anything combos or approaching with short-hop ariels to make up the difference. The only real advantage I can see Chrom having is a better retreating game, because same as Lucina, he can just wag his stick in the direction of the opponent and they kind of have to back off or risk getting launched, whereas Roy usually will simply pop them upwards with sourspots and not away from himself.
Melee marth was weird. A lot of his hitboxes had odd priorities where the blade hitbox had higher priority than the hilt. Seems like roy also had the same attribute which makes his sweetspot on a fair number of moves more difficult to hit. Then you get into things like Marth having one of the few spikes in the game while roy has a meteor instead.
marths forward smash can kill at 30% at the edge with a tipper. i think marths tipper smash is stronger then roys sweet spot. theres a reason why marths forward smash is called a dragon killer
wait- I'm seriously in the first 200 subscribers? :O As someone who plays Marth, I kinda wish I could play Roy. I'm too used to spacing being second nature to me that going in that close really feels wrong. Muscle Memory and all that.
I actually at first mained lucina then swapped to marth after finding how much id unintentionally space and ever since ive liked marth alot better then lucina really liking the high risk high reward gameplay and the differences between the two are actually quite drastic more then i at first though and ive allways really liked being rewarded for my good plays not to mention the very satisfying tippers
I am going to rank them all quick from best to worst. #1 Roy: his strengths are very fast frame data, he does has sour spots but his sweet spots are much easier to land than Marth's. His weakness is sour spots and his fairly average recovery. He is the best Marth clone #2 Lucina: her strengths are no sour spots and consistent attacks, a good recovery, decent frame data. She is the most consistent of the four. She's far too basic for players who want a real challenge #3 Chrom: his strengths are very fast frame data, no sour spots which means consistent damage. His weakness however, is he has the worst recovery of the four (it's so easy to gimp him) #4 Marth: his strengths are having huge damage and knockback at the tip, good recovery, a decent frame data. His main weakness are small tipper size which significantly affects his ability to KO. He is the hardest Marth to use effectively (basically the worst of the four) *Ike interrupts* Ike get out of here. You're just a visual Marth clone but your moves are very different
I main Chrom but play all the swordies a little, except Lucina cause she's fucking lame. Even between Chrom and Roy they set themselves apart more as their own characters more than the links. Same moves more or less but their combo routes and play states couldn't be more different
as a marth main, I always see lucina/marth as the better character ditto, and marth’s inconsistency with kills in that matchup makes lucinas kill me around 130 with uptilt
I know that this is an Ultimate video, but about Sm4sh Roy he was bad because he didn't work well for the engine, a slower paced game with strong shields isn't well suited for a character that has a sword with no range. He also lacked strong confirms and meant that he was too committal for its worth. Is also why he became so good in Ultimate despite having so few changes (The only two big ones were jab's better angle and side b connecting properly and killing), he just interacts with the engine so well while Marth doesn't Also not really a fan of comparing Chroy and Marcina directly, I get that their moveset are functionally almost identical but they do literally everything differently, I don't even agree that they are semiclones personally lol. Going from Marth/Lucina to Roy is pretty much learning a new character
ngl I could make an entire video just on that topic, I say go for it :) Lucina is a pretty interesting character, and my favorite thing about her is that you can switch between playing offensively and defensively, one thing she does have over roy. She has so many strengths, fun easy combos & confirms, and her ledgetrapping and edgeguarding is insane. I’d check out Mr.E’s guide on her. also, spam nair Hopefully soon I’ll have a video up on how to get started with lucina, or how to get started with finding a new main in general. glad you enjoyed the video :))
The biggest misconception is that Marth and Lucina are clones. They have the same moveset yeah but something as simple as the tippers mechanic changes everything they do
While I do agree about Roy being better than Lucina (mainly because of her inferior overall mobility and kill power compared to his), I do think that she is more reliable than him thanks to her superior defensive abilities. In my opinion, her matchup chart is better than Roy's.
Great video just here to clear up some misinformation as someone who has mained Marth and Lucina for over 2 years. Your point about Roy being stronger is just straight up incorrect. Excluding fair, bair, counter and neutral b, all of Marth's moves kill earlier than Roy's (Lucina's nair also kills earlier than Roy's). Also you talked about citing trusted sources then sampled Esam's content farming tier list to talk about Marth. The man thought up b had a tipper :/ need I say more? Those are my only 2 minor nitpicks
I am pretty sure that Roy’s counter is considerably stronger than any of the other of the siblings covered in the video. I also think that Roy’s up B is much better than any of the other siblings.
For example Lucina is somehow different than Marth! Compare to their attack animations are very different and their arc frames is very identical! No matter however her attack lands it’s still strong to kill the opponent because it may not be strong as Marth but she’s share similarities to him! Her victory quotes is very different! Once you listen closely, she only says different lines if you win against to Marth or Ike! Robin and Chrom are the only ones has one special quote for Lucina!
I think that Roy is my favourite clone. Marth is the OG, the perfect spacer and THE sword fighter. Lucina is identical in every way except without the spacing risk/reward which makes her a pretty weak option to me. Chrom is just a stupid character that throws out moves that work 9 times out of 10. Roy brings back the so Uhm but the exact opposite, he has to get right up in his opponents face to get the extra damage and knock back. He’s just a more reckless and aggressive marth and I like it that way.
Ike, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth don't really fit this archetype. All four of the characters in the video have really similar movesets for the most part.
To be honest, I don't really fish for tippers with Marth. I mainly use sour hits to frame trap and get a lot more damage out of advantage state. I only really go for tippers during ledge trapping or during advantage state when at kill percent. If I happen to miss the tipper, I can follow up with more sour hits because they don't get launched that far. During edge guard situations, sour hits are also often good enough for killing. Tipper F-tilt is essentially just Lucina forward smash and its tipper is pretty generous. And for whatever reason, I got pretty good with dancing blade forward 4, too. Obviously that move doesn't work with the big Bois, though. I would actually say... Marth is better during advantage state because his frame traps are better, and he's better at ledge trapping because your opponent's movement is restricted in that condition. Easy to land tippers. Also, his shield break is better. Lets you set up for an easy forward smash, which kills at 30%. Lucina is obviously easier to use overall. With Marth, you have to fundamentally change a lot of your strategy depending on the size of your opponent and weight. This also generally means you get new setups depending on who you're dealing with. Like, with the big boys, you can Nairplane loop them across the stage and finish with F-smash.
@@mavrikgaming970 I think Ike was too different, yeah, I mean all these guys share a lot of moves, not just their specials, and Ike was brought into brawl intentionally as the “heavy swordie”. He was a character designed from scratch while Lucina/Roy/Chrom can all be traced back to Marth :)
that’s fair, I don’t think it would be too hard to pick up roy if you already main lucina though! i think u should go for it if you feel like you’ll be better in the end. also I’m curious, what weaknesses do you see in lucina?
@@aann Thanks for the reply! I've come to terms with Lucina again. LoL I think at my low level it's tough to have such a no-frills or balenced main. When there are so many other characters that just overpowers Lucina with powerful hits, big hit boxes, and sometimes are faster than her. But, I've been learning that I have to be annoying with my moments and do some tit-for-tat hits. And eventually I get the win lol
I mean, why not just play both? There's really not much of a need to only play a single character exclusively, especially if you're not competing in majors. If you're just playing to enjoy the game, I find it helps to play different characters here and there to keep things from getting stale even if you have one that is your real main.
Honestly Marth mad underrated, I do blame Ult's engine and the fact that most top tiers actually just get to mash, they didn't know how to balance risk/reward in this game so most of the "in your face 1 neutral win -> KO" characters are ending up at the top. As a Marth main I still think the difference between him and Lucina is marginal, and his matchup spread only differs in certain characters like Bowser, but other than that I truly believe he's around her spot in the tier list, if not a few spots higher. Out of the Marth-esque characters, his combos are the most unique and his defensive play is the best of the four. Overall, this game is ass when it comes to proper balance LMAOOO
agree on everything you just said :) I’ve been playing a lot more marth since I uploaded this video and tbh he’s way more fun than he was back when I tried him when I was bad at the game. I’m still gonna main Lucina, but pocketing marth doesn’t sound like a bad idea
There are definitely top tiers that win off one interaction but not all of them. Joker, Pikachu, Pac Man, and Cloud are usually not killing off one interaction unless they got an insane read or played advantage state super well.
Well obviously marth is the best marth due marth being able to marth and marth and he can marth while marthing and he can marth out of marth. Therefore, marth is the best marth marth.
There are people who think Chrom l/Roy/Lucina is the best, but I have yet found someone thinks Marth is better ever since the beginning of Smash Ultimate
I thought the same, then I got a bunch of Marth fans in the comments saying he’s at least 2nd out of the four edit: ofc a fair opinion to have lol, just unexpected
@@aann People who value Marthcina over Chroy probably value frame data, the frame 1 invincible escape option up-b, and/or the speed of recovery But many characters can shark up-b. Plus, Roy just has better everything else, lol
Am I the only one who gets annoyed when the smash community still calls roy a clone of Marth? Like I get it, y'all don't like fire emblem but it's irritating
Yeah, Roy really isn't a clone of Marth anymore. He may have a few things that make him similar, but his playstyle and other attributes make him completely different from Marth. But what gets me annoyed even more than that is some people somehow think that IKE is a Marth clone when he doesn't even have the same moveset that he does.
It's still fair to call him a semi-clone, at least. Most of his moves are still clearly based on Marth's as a base, even if they function completely differently
Lucina is better than Roy. But Lucina actually takes skill to use effectively and isn't a brain dead character. One thing about Ult players they all prefer the easiest route. Thats why people think Mythra is better than Joker when she really isn't. She's just brain dead and easy to use like Roy.
Bro. That's the same argument that some people would use to justify Marth being better than Lucina (minus the bit about either one being braindead). As someone who mains Marcina and secondaries Roy, being able to play aggressive is a whole other can of worms. Also the fact that Chroy's disadvantage state is significantly worse than ours. If you're losing to a mashy Chroy, I'm sorry but that's just a skill issue.
@@aann exactly roy is so one-note and I hate characters that are stuck with only one successful playstyle. That's why I main ZSS and Byleth with Palu and Lucina as secondaries (but I enjoy and play basically all of the characters). I love being able to mix up my playstyles mid-match, and those characters are some of the best at it. Only one-note character I enjoy is Incineroar, because his down tilt is so busted and I love playing around with revenge. Getting 75% off of a revenged-side b, killing them at 20% before the hit, and hardcore stealing a game I don't deserve gives me life 😂
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
if you guys liked the video go ahead and join the discord to keep the convo going :)) link in description
CORRECTIONS: Yoo this was my first competitive smash video that actually did well so I should take the time to make some corrections:
The video is still good, but I've gotten some feedback and I don't want to give you guys any incorrect info.
- Marth's moves, including side-B do actually kill earlier than Roy, what I should've said is Roy's hitboxes are more generous, and still insanely strong, and you'll land them more frequently with Roy, but, yeah, Marth is stronger in most moves.
- Roy/Chrom's nair is more of a combo move throughout percents while Marth/Lucina's is a combo move at first but turns into more of a kill move later on. Not something I mentioned during the video, just, something I missed.
Either than that the video is perfect lets goooo also reply to this comment if you have something to add :)
I pretty much agree overall
My personal take: chrom and lucina lose their fun factor to me through not having anything going on with their sword hitboxes and the consistency is kind of lame, makes kills a little too easy in many cases because everything kills eventually even with a little staling
Marth and Roy having gimmicks make them so much more rewarding to play as you can really slice stocks by playing to their strengths, tipper f smash and tipper side b are dopamine rushes not to mention roys too but more so Marths because those are harder to land
Also the sound fx on those moves are clean, between chrom and lucina chroms sword sounds much better while lucinas is just like a dinky little slash fx idk
And Roy has better up b and Marth has insane edgeguards too but that also applies to lucina though landing a tipper bair is NICE especially when it can gimp
Though one big pitfall is that some tilts, mostly roys ftilt and uptilt or even Marths f smash are EXTREMELY punishable on shield even when spaced so it really limits how many ways you can shield pressure when you give swordies like them the "dumb to use on shield" moves
Maybe some of my dislike towards lucina comes from watching the underdogs Australian yt because one of them is the best competitive player out of the four and he used lucina for a while but the other three think he's lame for dedicating time to the character
And little z describes it best, lucina kinda bland water but Marth is kinda the fizzy water idk
No disrespect intended with these opinions here I just find lucina and chrom real boring (especially since chrom up b got patched to avoid suicide wins)
Saying roy plays like chrom is like saying luigi plays like mario. They are completely different lol
@@plastickkerorolm4889 it's more like chrom plays like roy but he doesn't have to be close up, he has very similar combo routes
Also Luigi isn't an echo so your point is not valid there anyway, whereas chrom is
@randompog8493 what I meant to say was marth. The only thing that's fairly similar is Jair. But chroms upair it's weaker but better to juggle. Chrom gets more tech chases because of his consistent dtilt. Chrom side b is also a more constant threat. As far as real echo fighters go I'd point out characters like daisy, Simon, dark pit, and dark Samus. Those characters are played almost the exact same way of not the exact same way in richter and daisy case.
But saying chrom plays like roy is more like saying doc plays like mario. Yes they have many similarities but they play completely different in practice.
The marth's in this game feel reminiscent of shouto characters in more traditional 2d fighters. Lucia is a pure fundamentals character. If you win with her, it's because you're probably better than your opponent. She's Ryu essentially. Roy takes the same fundamental idea and makes it as aggressive as possible. He's Ken. Chrom gives you a ton of absurdly strong tools, at the cost of punishing your mistakes harder. He's Akuma. And Marth is Dan because he's bad.
slay
marth is mad underrated ngl. dan sucks tho
If you could space perfectly with Marth he would be god tier. But if MKLeo can't even do that, then I don't even have a snowball's chance in Hell.
Ultimate has been out for a little over 4 years and Marth still hasn't really come into his own. At this point, most players are looking toward the next game and weening themselves off of this one. By this point, it's safe to say that the sauce just didn't come together in Marth's favor in this game. Is he low tier? Probably not, there's a definite chance he could be, but it seems most likely that he settled around somewhere in the mid tiers which is surprising for such a historically solid character. Everyone just moves too fast and there isn't enough hit stun for him to get anything off of his sour spots at low percent. Sure, he might kill you at 30 if he 2 frames you with a fully charged forward smash; but, compare that to the other bullshit in this game and it's clear that you just have to work harder as Marth.
@Shiokyuri but he’s still preforming as one of the most optimal Marth users. There is prob 1 and only 1 person better than him at Marth. But game 3 Leo with Marth did a reverse 3-0 so it’s pretty legendary
"Grandma, who is the best Marth?"
"That's Lucina from Fire Emblem Awakening for the Nintendo Wii"
9:40 . It really depends on the move in question. Not all tipper attacks are created equal. There are some tippers such as fair, bair, and d-tilt that are so slightly better than Lucina's that it makes them way worse overall but then their are tippers like f-smash, f-tilt, nair, dancing blade, and u-tilt that kill way earlier than their counterparts of all the other clones. We are talking 40-50% earlier than their Lucina counterpart and 10-20% earlier than Roy. Then there's the beast that's tipper f-smash which is the 4th strongest f-smash in the game while Roy's hilt is sitting at 10th place.
These differences make Marth the best in specific areas such as ledge trapping because the speed of the game is not a factor, he can threaten with his best tipper moves, and marthcina can cover all the ledge options. This argument is also true about Marth's tech chase game, especially since sour hits at mid percent means he can get them more. Jab lock into u-tilt, f-tilt or stutter-step tipper f-smash or d-smash are all realistic options because Marth would have full control of it. The Marth community believes that Marth is better with a more grounded playstyle because of his relative aerial weakness and inconsistency. Another think aspiring should realize is that hitting tipper is not always about max spacing. Depending on the frame of the move the tipper could be right next to Marth. Shield break will also favor Marth becaue he can go for kills earlier. If Lucina got a shield break at 35% then she ccould not take a stock but Marth probably could. Depending on the stage Marth may also have better plattform coverage as they could make certain tippers and smash attacks totally free.
If Marth had to get buffed the main thing they would have to fix to make him work is dancing blade. The animation for the tipper forward hit completely lies about where the tipper hit box actually is, not to mention the fact that the hitbox itself is a literal sliver while Roy's is the majority of the blade. It's just off the sword animation itself so to get tipper you would basically have to whiff barely. It actually kills 5% earlier than Roy's so it should be regarded even higher than his but it isn't because of the inconsistency. This should be Marth's most dangerous tool but it isn't. If the devs gave Marth the same treatment as Roy half of his sword would be tipper and the other half would be sour.
After testing for a bit I learned that a lot of Marth's grounded moves actually kill earlier than Roy's, they just do fewer percent, whereas some of Roy's aerial moves deal fewer percent but kill earlier. Side B is the exception to the rule, Roy's is just better lol.
I main Marth, but I admit that Roy's just better in this game.
Good video btw! You have won a sub!
glad you enjoyed the video :)
one thing I did realize too late was that roy/chrom’s nair is more of a combo move most of the time, but marth/lucina’s stops being a combo move in late percents and turns into more of a kill move. It seems to have more knockback growth
@@aann iirc Marth tipper nair is actually top 2 in terms of kill power, killing at around 125% Roy and Chrom’s can kill but it’s much harder. So I think you’re right, from what I can tell it’s actually pretty hard to kill with Roy’s nair, I think they meant to make it so Marth’s can kill and Roy’s makes it easier to combo into other moves, I mean, even at 100% you can still combo into jair with it, pretty interesting imo
I'm still genuinely shocked that Roy and Rob's side Bs have gone untouched throughout the entire lifetime of smash ultimate patches like how tf did these miss these moves lmao
Marth's Nair, Up-Air, Jab, Up-Tilt, every smash attack, and side b all kill earlier than Roy's with his sweetspot, everything else Roy has the edge in.
@@QwertYuiop-yt3uh probably because they aren't actually that broken
Something that is a bit understated about marth and lucina is that they play differently. They both have their own slightly different methods for racking damage and killing that make each more suitable for different playstyles and match ups. I know when I'm playing in the arena, i will freely switch between the two depending on my needs.
I remember one time i was playing against my friend using lucina. I landed a tipped f tilt at the ledge that would have killed as marth and would have won. He started laughing because i had just explained why i sometimes will pick marth over lucina and had just switched off of marth to demonstrate my point.
I have been solo maining Marth for 10 months to see if he is really much worse than the other three. Yeah, he is. But he is also 10 times more fun. Getting a nair-1 to tipper forward smash feels godlike. I'm trash with Lucina now anyway because I'm so used to having to space.
Same happens here with me maining Lucina, I try Marth and my spacing is so sloppy and I’m pretty much leaving it to dumb luck until I get that random tipper and KO lol
@@aann Sounds about right! I don't know how people can play them both. They are completely different.
I disagree. I main snake and Roy. Roy is a fun aggressive character. Ig it’s the noise his sweet spots make. It’s also just satisfying to kill my opponent at 60 while my brain is turned off. he has pretty much an opposite play style as snake so if I switch mid match it also just messes up my opponent’s rhythm lol
@@vince615 i agree, those roy sweet spots are so satisfying, it’s like a thunderclap. CRASH when you hit that back air jump read
Marth is just a girly Lucina IMO
1:18 Roy was literally just broken in Melee (in the worst sense). Many of his attack animations don't have matching hitboxes for some reason. Like the hitbox for his dash attack is on his shoulder and is active toward the end of the move, with the sword swing being nothing more than an animation.
the reason they don't match is because it's _marth's_ frame data.
while roy's attacks were mostly copied from marth, the animations aren't actually 1:1. some of roy's moves, like up air and dash attack, are slightly slower than marth's versions. this isn't inherently bad - it adds more distinct differences between the two - however, hal also copied marth's frame data for these moves. which they completely forgot to change.
you can see evidence for this in the aforementioned dash attack, which is active on frames 8 - 11 on both characters. perfectly fine for marth, but on roy the active frame start way too early and end halfway through the sword swing.
@@gingerqueer22 that's interesting, I didn't know that.
But the hitboxes aren't 1:1 right? I would expect Roy's dash attack to just have a ghost hitbox where Marth's sword would be on the same frames if that were the case. But his shoulder bash hitbox seems to come out earlier and kind of just cover the front of his body
I play all four of them, but I main Roy. Imo Roy does not feel like Marth anymore. Their sweetspots, falling speed, etc are to different for me to consider them very similair. I also think Roy is the best out of the four. Even if Chrom's recovery would be equal to Roy, Roy's sweet spots are not very hard to hit (at least for me) and double edge dance on Roy is very, very strong
based. I soul main Kaz, but I love to play Roy (undisputed best swordie), Marcina, and Ike, not Chrom though - with no horizontal recovery, and Roy's sweetspots already being generous, there's no real incentive for me to play Chrom besides just to flex. even Ike has his side B 🤷🏽♂️
My favorite Marth clone is Link.
fr dawg mine is robin
My favorite Marth clone is Hero
mine is Shulk
Mine is Meta Knight
@@aannmine are Roy and young link
Marth has the higher skill cealing and most potential of all four but no one invest enought time to exploit it. They just go with the e̶a̶s̶i̶e̶s̶t̶ safer option
as a lucina main, yeah my marth sucks
@@aann as a marth main, yeah my marth sucks
Disagree marth will always be the worst swordie
Even if a player invested tons of hours into their Marth, the tippers are too inconsistent when you factor in the speed of playing against another live opponent. Think about how quickly Mythra can move around and imagine trying to hit the tiny sliver of a tipper against her while she's flying around - it doesn't matter how practiced the player is.
I feel this in my blood as I play Marth and Roy, Marth has so much potential but no one really plays the character anymore so no new tech is being discovered
BRO WHY U UNDERATED this video is criminally underated and has such a good editing style, fr u have the amazing potential to be a content creator, KEEP UP THE SMASH VIDS
thank you man 😭 loved reading your comment, more smash videos coming up :)))
Saying roy is a marth clone in ultimate is absurd. Same goes for chrom
Although I personally call them "The 4 Marths" Roy and Chrom feel like completely different characters at time lol.
But holy shit your editing is impeccable, I wonder why you have so little subs.
I wonder the same thing too homie
glad you enjoyed the video ❤️
IMHO, Marth is a little misunderstood. It hurts me to say this as a Marth main, but he's still worse than Lucina on average, though only slightly. Trying to tipper everything is really suboptimal for him now. Marth and Lucina both need to make use of kill confirms and hard reads to kill reliably (i.e. fundies), and when you're trying to tipper all your moves, that really kills the usefulness of combos for Marth, on top of wearing you out from spacing because the game is too fast paced to tipper everything. It sounds counterintuitive, but in general, Marth benefits from spacing just short of the tipper hitbox.
Tippers are something that he should really only actively go for during juggles, hard reads, shield breaks, and as combo finishers. Otherwise, it's better to space near the tipper and exploit the lower knockback of the sours.
Does it make him better than Lucina? I don't know. As long as Ignaize is the only Marth getting results in this way, I'm going to say that Marth is still worse than Lucina, but it's close. Regardless, I am a High Tier Marth believer.
I think Marth is low-mid High Tier, Lucina and Chrom are upper High Tier, and Roy is lower Top Tier. All solid picks and totally viable, but Marth suffers from being much more investment-heavy.
I think is not even close personally, the two characters already struggle to function in the current meta and Marth is also inconsistent for the worse.
The peaks are amazing but often you are also stuck at not killing at 170 while Lucina kills consistently (I think both Roy and Lucina are top tiers but Lucina is definitely on the lower part)
Also I think Chrom is just "bad" (Like mid-tier bad), the character is incredible but he also just dies at 40 so easily
😊😊
This content is fantastic I can't believe you only have 180ish subscribers, keep up the fantastic work!
thanks! This video pretty much doubled my sub count too lol
I’ve always played Roy, no matter what the game was, from Melee to Ultimate ! Glad to see he’s high ranked :)
It's interesting that Lucina has fewer -2s than Roy does but because Roy dominates a lot more characters and has fewer losing MUs in total so he's a better character. Good video.
Still wont stop me from always picking chrom WOOOOOOO
I kinda disagree that Marth is worse than Lucina. At a high level, a Lucina will end up more times than not just barely hitting the opponent with the tip with their fair or nair attacks in order for them to get back to a safe position if the opponent shields. And at that point, why not just play Marth instead and get the free tipper? I can understand why most players prefer Lucina for the consistency at that low or mid level, but I feel like if a high-level player took the time to get good at that spacing it could show much bigger returns than Lucina could.
Because the free tipper is usually a wasted opportunity. Marth's sourspot combo game and ability to confirm into tippers is what sets him apart from Lucina. Spacing for tippers 100% of the time locks you out of this and is a waste of effort.
As a Marth main and High Tier Marth believer, I think he _is_ worse but only slightly.
But yeah, if you want an example of a high-level player getting returns, MkLeo's your man. He spaces for tippers most of the time but he's actually good enough for it to work. Leo's Marth is mostly that good because Marth's a fundies character and Leo has insane fundies.
Ignaize is pretty cracked too. IMHO, Leo's fundies are probably good because he's gotten to play so many characters and get results from them. With Ignaize, his knowledge of Marth is the part that stands out. He has fundies for sure, but I wouldn't compare anyone to Leo on that front.
You're only thinking in terms of neutral interactions. Lucina has a much easier time defending herself out of disadvantage or even just against rushdown characters that are too fast to reliably keep within tipper range. Marth's sourspot aerials will often trade or outright lose in interactions that would put Lucina into advantage.
I main lucina too. I used to main Marth and I play him for fun but it's insane the difference between my success with him and lucina. I struggle in elite smash with Marth but with lucina its way less of a struggle. The benefit of maining Marth or lucina imo is that you also naturally will get better at playing Roy and chrom. I started playing some Roy and it's insane how freaking easy that character is jfc. Maybe I should just main Roy.
It's like how animals all evolve into crabs at some point. All Marth clone mains will evolve into Roy mains after realizing how freaking broken and easy he is lmao.
If Chrom had a decent recovery, I would probably use him instead of Roy as my secondary. I tend to be on the defensive side, though, so maybe having to be aggressive with Roy helps balance my play style.
If Chrom had Roy's Up B, he'd be top 5. Hell. If he had Ike Up B, he'd make it to top 10. The sword toss up really would make a world of difference. They did Chrom dirty for literally no reason.
@@Contrary22Look Ike Up B is definitely better, but don't lie lmao. He still doesn't have horizontal recovery like Ike does with side B, he's still super easy to gimp. It might move him up a few spots but nowhere near top 10.
As a lucina main, I enjoyed the video :)
I've mained Roy in every game he is in, so this may sound biased, but I think that what you said at 12:55 regarding Chrom's combos actually make him worse, since Roy's sourspots deal lower knock back, he can combo for longer periods of time before transitioning into his sweetspots to score a kill. Chrom can technically kill earlier on average, but Roy deals enough damage off of simple jab-to-anything combos or approaching with short-hop ariels to make up the difference. The only real advantage I can see Chrom having is a better retreating game, because same as Lucina, he can just wag his stick in the direction of the opponent and they kind of have to back off or risk getting launched, whereas Roy usually will simply pop them upwards with sourspots and not away from himself.
Project M Roy's my favourite out of all of them
Melee marth was weird. A lot of his hitboxes had odd priorities where the blade hitbox had higher priority than the hilt. Seems like roy also had the same attribute which makes his sweetspot on a fair number of moves more difficult to hit. Then you get into things like Marth having one of the few spikes in the game while roy has a meteor instead.
really great and well put together video, earned a sub
thanks for the sub homie :) glad you enjoyed
chrom is just unecessary after mythra came up
Marth is the hardest - Lucina is the balance - Roy is the ungabunga - Chrom is the brain dead masher.
thank you for this. roy is that boy!
marths forward smash can kill at 30% at the edge with a tipper.
i think marths tipper smash is stronger then roys sweet spot.
theres a reason why marths forward smash is called a dragon killer
13:02 Tea is such a troll lmao I love him
that down air was NOT necessary lmao
wait- I'm seriously in the first 200 subscribers? :O
As someone who plays Marth, I kinda wish I could play Roy. I'm too used to spacing being second nature to me that going in that close really feels wrong. Muscle Memory and all that.
Lucina is the best of the 4 and nobody can change my mind on that (as a Lucina main)
You deserve more subs
If Chrom had the same upb as Roy he'd be broken. He'd be the best marth for sure
I actually at first mained lucina then swapped to marth after finding how much id unintentionally space and ever since ive liked marth alot better then lucina really liking the high risk high reward gameplay and the differences between the two are actually quite drastic more then i at first though and ive allways really liked being rewarded for my good plays not to mention the very satisfying tippers
I am going to rank them all quick from best to worst.
#1 Roy: his strengths are very fast frame data, he does has sour spots but his sweet spots are much easier to land than Marth's. His weakness is sour spots and his fairly average recovery. He is the best Marth clone
#2 Lucina: her strengths are no sour spots and consistent attacks, a good recovery, decent frame data. She is the most consistent of the four. She's far too basic for players who want a real challenge
#3 Chrom: his strengths are very fast frame data, no sour spots which means consistent damage. His weakness however, is he has the worst recovery of the four (it's so easy to gimp him)
#4 Marth: his strengths are having huge damage and knockback at the tip, good recovery, a decent frame data. His main weakness are small tipper size which significantly affects his ability to KO. He is the hardest Marth to use effectively (basically the worst of the four)
*Ike interrupts*
Ike get out of here. You're just a visual Marth clone but your moves are very different
I main Chrom but play all the swordies a little, except Lucina cause she's fucking lame. Even between Chrom and Roy they set themselves apart more as their own characters more than the links. Same moves more or less but their combo routes and play states couldn't be more different
as a marth main, I always see lucina/marth as the better character ditto, and marth’s inconsistency with kills in that matchup makes lucinas kill me around 130
with uptilt
I know that this is an Ultimate video, but about Sm4sh Roy he was bad because he didn't work well for the engine, a slower paced game with strong shields isn't well suited for a character that has a sword with no range.
He also lacked strong confirms and meant that he was too committal for its worth.
Is also why he became so good in Ultimate despite having so few changes (The only two big ones were jab's better angle and side b connecting properly and killing), he just interacts with the engine so well while Marth doesn't
Also not really a fan of comparing Chroy and Marcina directly, I get that their moveset are functionally almost identical but they do literally everything differently, I don't even agree that they are semiclones personally lol.
Going from Marth/Lucina to Roy is pretty much learning a new character
Great video. Thinking about learning Lucina. Any tips to get me started?
ngl I could make an entire video just on that topic,
I say go for it :) Lucina is a pretty interesting character, and my favorite thing about her is that you can switch between playing offensively and defensively, one thing she does have over roy.
She has so many strengths, fun easy combos & confirms, and her ledgetrapping and edgeguarding is insane. I’d check out Mr.E’s guide on her. also, spam nair
Hopefully soon I’ll have a video up on how to get started with lucina, or how to get started with finding a new main in general.
glad you enjoyed the video :))
@@aann Alright 👍 thanks!
these four are so cool and i love them all and i want them all to be buffed lots.
Roy's good as is, honestly. Buffing him further than he is already would probably make him as broken as Joker and Pyra/Mythra
The biggest misconception is that Marth and Lucina are clones. They have the same moveset yeah but something as simple as the tippers mechanic changes everything they do
History portion ends at 3:21
While I do agree about Roy being better than Lucina (mainly because of her inferior overall mobility and kill power compared to his), I do think that she is more reliable than him thanks to her superior defensive abilities. In my opinion, her matchup chart is better than Roy's.
Great video just here to clear up some misinformation as someone who has mained Marth and Lucina for over 2 years. Your point about Roy being stronger is just straight up incorrect. Excluding fair, bair, counter and neutral b, all of Marth's moves kill earlier than Roy's (Lucina's nair also kills earlier than Roy's). Also you talked about citing trusted sources then sampled Esam's content farming tier list to talk about Marth. The man thought up b had a tipper :/ need I say more? Those are my only 2 minor nitpicks
make the lucina video you mentioned in the marth/lucina section! i’d love to see that
I will!
I am pretty sure that Roy’s counter is considerably stronger than any of the other of the siblings covered in the video. I also think that Roy’s up B is much better than any of the other siblings.
Roy is really damn good
Top 5 character and also top 5 in terms of ease of use. Character is ridiculous.
nice video !
glad you enjoyed :))
:))
For example Lucina is somehow different than Marth! Compare to their attack animations are very different and their arc frames is very identical!
No matter however her attack lands it’s still strong to kill the opponent because it may not be strong as Marth but she’s share similarities to him!
Her victory quotes is very different! Once you listen closely, she only says different lines if you win against to Marth or Ike!
Robin and Chrom are the only ones has one special quote for Lucina!
I think that Roy is my favourite clone. Marth is the OG, the perfect spacer and THE sword fighter. Lucina is identical in every way except without the spacing risk/reward which makes her a pretty weak option to me. Chrom is just a stupid character that throws out moves that work 9 times out of 10. Roy brings back the so Uhm but the exact opposite, he has to get right up in his opponents face to get the extra damage and knock back. He’s just a more reckless and aggressive marth and I like it that way.
that’s fair. So glad roy got the buffs he deserved in his transition to ssbu
Lucina is very good, way better than marth
Thanks for explain this
1:44 More usable? Dude melee marth nutral b is just a slightly weaker f smash you can do in the air! It’s so good
Great video, as a fellow Lucina main and avid Marth hater I approve!
god I wish marth like, functioned
chrom mains complaining to complain ur faster,heavier,kill faster, better frame data, then lucina yet u say hes worse
marth is hype
We need to talk about Steve or Pyra/Mythra in term of broken character
working on a steve video right now, hopefully it’ll be up by wednesday :)
I was able to get it out by wednesday :) if you want to check it out:
ruclips.net/video/jR8jyF2Aytk/видео.html
I love chrom
I love chrom too :)
I main monkey though
NAH THIS DUDE SAID SWEET SPOT CHEESE!
Roy noodle sword lol
Marth is basically the best character in the game if you master him
crazy that its 2023 and people still think marth is worse than lucina, he was better than lucina when the game came out and hes only been buffed since
What...? Your joking right?
Roy played very different in Smash 4?
im subscribing just cause i love your fucking pfp so much and it makes me lose it whenever you put it in the video
thank you
just give marth a better recovery. they have so many tools to balance characters without changing the concept
There are 8 fire emblem characters?
Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina, Chrom, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth.
Ike, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth don't really fit this archetype. All four of the characters in the video have really similar movesets for the most part.
To be honest, I don't really fish for tippers with Marth. I mainly use sour hits to frame trap and get a lot more damage out of advantage state. I only really go for tippers during ledge trapping or during advantage state when at kill percent. If I happen to miss the tipper, I can follow up with more sour hits because they don't get launched that far. During edge guard situations, sour hits are also often good enough for killing. Tipper F-tilt is essentially just Lucina forward smash and its tipper is pretty generous. And for whatever reason, I got pretty good with dancing blade forward 4, too. Obviously that move doesn't work with the big Bois, though. I would actually say... Marth is better during advantage state because his frame traps are better, and he's better at ledge trapping because your opponent's movement is restricted in that condition. Easy to land tippers. Also, his shield break is better. Lets you set up for an easy forward smash, which kills at 30%.
Lucina is obviously easier to use overall. With Marth, you have to fundamentally change a lot of your strategy depending on the size of your opponent and weight. This also generally means you get new setups depending on who you're dealing with. Like, with the big boys, you can Nairplane loop them across the stage and finish with F-smash.
I saw that at the end.
Bro I saw that at the end where you ranked your main at the top
idk what you mean homie 😳😳
@@aann also why didn’t you cover Ike or is he to different for the vid?
@@mavrikgaming970 I think Ike was too different, yeah, I mean all these guys share a lot of moves, not just their specials, and Ike was brought into brawl intentionally as the “heavy swordie”. He was a character designed from scratch while Lucina/Roy/Chrom can all be traced back to Marth :)
@@aann ok sounds good
I main Lucina, but I see many flaws with her. Sometimes I wish I would have stuck with Roy when I 1st got the game.
that’s fair, I don’t think it would be too hard to pick up roy if you already main lucina though! i think u should go for it if you feel like you’ll be better in the end. also I’m curious, what weaknesses do you see in lucina?
@@aann Thanks for the reply! I've come to terms with Lucina again. LoL
I think at my low level it's tough to have such a no-frills or balenced main. When there are so many other characters that just overpowers Lucina with powerful hits, big hit boxes, and sometimes are faster than her.
But, I've been learning that I have to be annoying with my moments and do some tit-for-tat hits. And eventually I get the win lol
I mean, why not just play both? There's really not much of a need to only play a single character exclusively, especially if you're not competing in majors. If you're just playing to enjoy the game, I find it helps to play different characters here and there to keep things from getting stale even if you have one that is your real main.
Honestly Marth mad underrated, I do blame Ult's engine and the fact that most top tiers actually just get to mash, they didn't know how to balance risk/reward in this game so most of the "in your face 1 neutral win -> KO" characters are ending up at the top. As a Marth main I still think the difference between him and Lucina is marginal, and his matchup spread only differs in certain characters like Bowser, but other than that I truly believe he's around her spot in the tier list, if not a few spots higher. Out of the Marth-esque characters, his combos are the most unique and his defensive play is the best of the four. Overall, this game is ass when it comes to proper balance LMAOOO
agree on everything you just said :) I’ve been playing a lot more marth since I uploaded this video and tbh he’s way more fun than he was back when I tried him when I was bad at the game. I’m still gonna main Lucina, but pocketing marth doesn’t sound like a bad idea
This is definently the most balanced smash tho. Everyone is viable if you put the work into it. I find that impressive as hell.
There are definitely top tiers that win off one interaction but not all of them. Joker, Pikachu, Pac Man, and Cloud are usually not killing off one interaction unless they got an insane read or played advantage state super well.
Well obviously marth is the best marth due marth being able to marth and marth and he can marth while marthing and he can marth out of marth. Therefore, marth is the best marth marth.
as a marth main
honestly tho
ok, dejenlo cocinar 🥶🤑💯
There are people who think Chrom l/Roy/Lucina is the best, but I have yet found someone thinks Marth is better ever since the beginning of Smash Ultimate
I thought the same, then I got a bunch of Marth fans in the comments saying he’s at least 2nd out of the four
edit: ofc a fair opinion to have lol, just unexpected
@@aann People who value Marthcina over Chroy probably value frame data, the frame 1 invincible escape option up-b, and/or the speed of recovery
But many characters can shark up-b. Plus, Roy just has better everything else, lol
Everyone is a eliwood or rpy clone here
who invited this kid?!?!💯⁉❓
Aw HELL naw!!!! 🤣🤣 that shit was great lol
Chrom is my favorite Marth.
melee marth is best marth
perrinski
momento perrinski a la 100
Lucina is the best I give her 1000000000000000/10
Am I the only one who gets annoyed when the smash community still calls roy a clone of Marth? Like I get it, y'all don't like fire emblem but it's irritating
Yeah, Roy really isn't a clone of Marth anymore. He may have a few things that make him similar, but his playstyle and other attributes make him completely different from Marth.
But what gets me annoyed even more than that is some people somehow think that IKE is a Marth clone when he doesn't even have the same moveset that he does.
It's still fair to call him a semi-clone, at least. Most of his moves are still clearly based on Marth's as a base, even if they function completely differently
@BroadwayRonMexico absolutely fair, but the other semi clones are that just that, semi clone, while folks call Roy a straight clone of Marth
Roy and Chrom arent really clones anymore since 4 gave Roy new animation and moves, still related but not 'very similar'
Lucina change My mind (español xD)
its roy... just say its roy
short answer: roy
I like ike
Lucina is a queen she’s the best
she is our queen fr
Chrom is op.
roy is the best
chrom is my favorite
lucina is the easiest (and prettiest)
marth is the worst :(
Porfirio Díaz jajajajaja
al fin alguien se da cuenta xd
:)
we shall rise
Lucina is better than Roy. But Lucina actually takes skill to use effectively and isn't a brain dead character. One thing about Ult players they all prefer the easiest route. Thats why people think Mythra is better than Joker when she really isn't. She's just brain dead and easy to use like Roy.
Bro. That's the same argument that some people would use to justify Marth being better than Lucina (minus the bit about either one being braindead). As someone who mains Marcina and secondaries Roy, being able to play aggressive is a whole other can of worms. Also the fact that Chroy's disadvantage state is significantly worse than ours. If you're losing to a mashy Chroy, I'm sorry but that's just a skill issue.
why make a 15 minute video to say roy? :D
on a serious note, you have a great voice and this was a cool and well edited video!
roy > lucina > byleth > corrin > chrom > marth > robin > ike
Byleth, Robin, Ike and Corrim arent marth clones
@@illford fire emblem
Corrin is by far stronger than byleth :v
@@aegishdaego cap
@@aegishdaego nah
The only Marth clone I acknowledge and has my blessing is Marth
Cloud is the best Marth Clone
Roy is the correct answer
I agree brotha but I play lucina because I love to play lame too
@@aann omg a man after my own heart 😍
@@aann I love lucina the most of these by far and I hate playing roy, but I recognize how insanely busted he is
that side b 💀 fr though i’d rather switch between zoning and being a rushdown than be stuck as a rushdown
@@aann exactly roy is so one-note and I hate characters that are stuck with only one successful playstyle. That's why I main ZSS and Byleth with Palu and Lucina as secondaries (but I enjoy and play basically all of the characters). I love being able to mix up my playstyles mid-match, and those characters are some of the best at it. Only one-note character I enjoy is Incineroar, because his down tilt is so busted and I love playing around with revenge. Getting 75% off of a revenged-side b, killing them at 20% before the hit, and hardcore stealing a game I don't deserve gives me life 😂