Yeah everyone is different. I can run a fast 3-5km, I can also run a slow 3-5km, and the insane thing is the slow 3-5km will leave a burn in my muscles for longer, that takes me longer to recover from. I've tried training my slower running by increasing slow runs, but this just resulted in my calves being completely fucked and my overall running suffered. So I stead now I do mostly fast paced running and instead on recovery days I take 1h+ bicycle rides.
From Norway: 4x4 stems from professors Helgerud and Hoff, advocating it for the general population and athletes. It gave 13% in 8 weeks with 3 training per week in one study, but can give less. It is not used by Ingebritsen or Warholm. The “Norwegian method” is the Marius Bakken approach, far different.
this is for advanced/professional athletes. It’s fine to do intervals for lower times. You can adapt the interval training per your fitness level. However If you are gassed after warm up, you ran way too hard, during warm up your heart rate should definitely be below 150.
I have heard it being called the Norwegian 4x4 Method by Peter Attia-the term seems fine. However, in distance running, the Norwegian Method refers to 2 x double threshold days, not Vo2 max intervals. What does it matter if you are Norwegian?
@@dovekie3437for the hard of thinking, being Norwegian is meant to give some additional credibility to the claim that the genesis of the technique is not Norwegian.
Thursday nights training in Manchester England 2km steady warm up 7 Laps. . 80% speed 250m - 150m walk recovery... 3 x 150m spirits with 150m walk recovery 800m jog cool down... Took about an hour... Hard work - much prefer a nice calm xc trail 😊
It’s not it’s Fartlek training HIIT is resting with static breaks and Fartlek is continuing running at various intensity’s which is what this guy is doing
Hey quick question , i just started running so im a newbie , all i do rn is just run 5k’s the fastest i can. so i run for around 40min total with warmup. How could a 8x5 at my 5k pace with break benefit me?
@@adrien2799 you should prioritize slow running as your total work out volume then trying to run 5k all out. Start to target long runs around 4-6 miles in one session. You'll see a lot of benefits. The idea of threshold running as the 8x5 minute runs is to build a more substantial tempo when you actually go and do a race. As a newbie run I would recommend one per month of that workout and concentrate on building your base running, i.e. long slow distance (LSD). After I got two hours of LSD I got a lot faster, needed less recovery and I was able to give more output on my runs. Now I'm not saying just jump into two hours off the bat. Take it easy start at 40 minutes and increase very slowly. Circle back to the 8x5min it's really to help keep that faster pace and even faster pace more steady and for longer times. You probably and this is me guessing your 5k you start fast and slow down a lot at the end. The workout is aimed to keep you at the same pace the whole race or even get negative splits at every km marker.
@@adrien2799having a break reduces the risk of injury, and also allows you to run at that pace for longer (40 minutes of 5k race pace not including warm up vs around 20-30 minutes not including warm up). Time trialing a 5k as fast as you can every day will not only be less efficient training wise, but also can have a serious risk of injury. I recommend a schedule of: Monday - intervals Tuesday - easy/slow/short run Wednesday - light workout (ex tempo runs) Thursday- easy run Friday - intervals Saturday - long run (around 20-30% of your weekly mileage) Sunday - off
The Norwegian training method is predicated on running higher volume by spending more time running at threshold & sub threshold paces to minimize fatigue & strain from workouts. Occasionally dipping into VO2 max work. Also where is this 13% improvement number coming from?
There was a study like ten years ago, where this increased the vo2 max for the runners I believe. Göran Winblad has a good reaction on this video, where he debunks a lot of the youtube running myths. Other than this not being the norwegian method, he also talks about how 13% can be achieved with almost every type of workout as a beginner and that this is also a fast way to get injured for a lot of runners😅 Too be fair I have 4times 800m "sprints" in my training plan, so I dont fully disagree with this kind of workout. Two times a week however is a really bad idea, focusing on more volume and slow runs will be way more beneficial for most runners.
I’m fat (5’8” and 220 lbs) and I’m just now getting to the point of 4 miles in about 40 minutes. My biggest problem is the fatigue of my calves and left ankle. Running a 10k in 2 weeks, hoping to do it in less than an hour. I used to be a lot faster, but I stopped training.
i had that problem too and what helped me was getting new shoes and stretching my ankles/feet a bunch before running, also try to run more on your toes if you don’t already
I also recommend running shoes with a wide toe box + power step insoles. Try tibialis raises and glute bridges 3x a week. Eventually hip flexor training if you really have an interest. I believe in you dawg
Ive heard that it allows your heart to stretch, and that is better as say to thicken. Body building gets your heart rate up, but its different, it causes the thickening. Im pretty new to the science based work outs so please correct me if I'm wrong there. Currently im exercising more to improve my fight training. My lungs are whats causing the biggest problem. During BJJ I know my arms, legs ect can still go for ALOT longer, but my lungs just wanna give up. Im trying different breathing techniques, incorporating more cardio, and have quit smoking tobacco. Im on vape currently (not really better, I know) and slowly making the switch to the new zyn/tobacco free nicotine stuff. I dont wanna hit a hard walk in that and jusy stay on the vape, despite its made me feel so much better than actual smoke. Thanks for the advice!
1. Be aware that swimming, cycling and running have different heart responses, and therefore different max heat rates, due to alterations in how the muscles provide power in each discipline. If you are a triathlete or multisport athlete, you cannot transpose the heart rate from one to the other and expect to be in the same zone. 2. This type of training has been around for decades now. At least the 90s, if not 80s. There is nothing new with this session. Not so sure this is the actual Norwegian method, as done by Ingebrigtsen, as currently understood in running.
Ha, when I set up a run interval, that's pretty much exactly what I ended up. Good to know I inadvertently hit the right spot. Can you maybe do something about back and shoulders while running, these sometimes cramp up during the exercise.
To be fair,be mindful how many intervals you do (coach Galloway, who seems to use this method for speed work throws way too many of them at the end of 10k training cycle). Too much too soon lead me to a lot of fatigue, overtraining and recurrence of ITBS.
*Easy! Now all I have to do to get started is get rid of the dog, the kids, the wife and the fulltime job and I'll have the time to do it! bubba! Yeah!!!* 😂
This kind of training (modified, systematic Fartlek training) is one of the secret training methods that most African (Kenyan) runners do, and it involves milking the dopamine system. As a high heart rate slows, the vagus nerve transmits impulses to the nucleus accumbens, which releases dopamine (the feel-good neurotransmitters) that are responsible for mood elevation (note: this effect is also experienced in food consumption, orgasm and recreational drugs.) The people using this technique go out fast, then reduce their pace to what the rest of the field is running at, and after the dopamine surges (which is also a pain reliever) they jack up the pace again, leaving the rest of the field farther behind. Repeat as necessary. I use this in open water swim training. It works, and it doesn't have to strictly adhere to the videographer's measurements. It is also the most significant working principle in Galloway.
4x4 is sound but “85% of HR” doesnt guarantee you will increase oxygen transport. Using a blood lactate monitor to determine “threshold” is necessary. HR and lactate production is not linear
20 min warm up jog. let's me stop you there good Mr. I gass around 13 min of the lightest jog. if i could go any slower i would, but it would look like i'm trying to do some kind of zombie dance.
If you are over 50 . This is one way ticket to sky I do 30 or 40 sec high intensity rest between 10,20,or 30 . For about 30 minutes . At 74 I am 20 years younger lol
A watch will be superior but you can try it out on feel. It won't feel like an all out sprint by the feeling you're looking for is going 80-90% effort.
How is 4min at 5k pace going to get me 95% of max HR? I might be lucky to get max HR if I run a complete 5k at race pace. Where are they getting this math? Lol. 4 min to get 95% of max HR I would have to run at mile pace or something faster. Not 5k pace lol.
4minute at 5k pace is not going to get you 95% max HR lol. You will get max HR by running a 5k at race pace if you run your best race, many times people can't run their best race, they will hit 98 99% max HR during 5k. Also, 4minutes at 5k pace, will get you maybe 80%-85 HR, not 95%. To get 85-95% you need to run faster than 5k pace and multiple intervals back to back to back.
5k pace is ambiguous. Some people run it in 13min, others in 30 min. Totally different thing intensity wise. You need to specify in race time not distance. Also 85-95% HR is a wide span. At 85% I am below lactate threshold, at 95% I am in Vo2max territory. In other words useless intensity advice.
@@TheMrsBeagle thanks. Does 30 mins on the treadmill have the same physiological fitness gain as 30 mins outside, both running same speed, and incline on the treadmill ??
@@na-dk9vm The only major difference between treadmill and outdoor running is the lack of wind resistance on the treadmill. This becomes more significant the faster you run. Anything below 6 min/km and the difference is negligible, at 5 min/km or faster you can increase the incline to 0.5% - 1% to compensate
Did the training, only got 12.5% increase in VO2 max. Don’t bother wasting your time guys.
Are you joking or dead serious
Obviously he’s serious what else would he mean🤷♂️
Cheers for the insight!!! Was about to get out of bed to try this..thank goodness I didn't, would have been a waste! You sir, are a life saver!
I can vouch for that.
You guys wanna get faster? Do 400m repeats. End of story. I got the fastest 2 mile time at my unit 11:27
"10-20 min warmup jog"
That's my whole exercise 😅
X2
Yeahh, i’m doing the 4x4 method but i think the warm up and cool down was this guys own input
😂😂😂
You’re unfit then
Yeah everyone is different. I can run a fast 3-5km, I can also run a slow 3-5km, and the insane thing is the slow 3-5km will leave a burn in my muscles for longer, that takes me longer to recover from.
I've tried training my slower running by increasing slow runs, but this just resulted in my calves being completely fucked and my overall running suffered.
So I stead now I do mostly fast paced running and instead on recovery days I take 1h+ bicycle rides.
From Norway: 4x4 stems from professors Helgerud and Hoff, advocating it for the general population and athletes. It gave 13% in 8 weeks with 3 training per week in one study, but can give less. It is not used by Ingebritsen or Warholm. The “Norwegian method” is the Marius Bakken approach, far different.
Bold of you to assume I can do anything beyond a 10 minute warm up jog
That's my Vo2 max.😅
😂😂
“Completes warm up jog” “is completely gassed and can’t do the rest”
*Dies
In that case you are running way too fast. Nothing wrong with just walking as your warmup
@@occultsymbolsBut walking as a warm for a 90% effort will probably lead to injury..
this is for advanced/professional athletes. It’s fine to do intervals for lower times. You can adapt the interval training per your fitness level. However If you are gassed after warm up, you ran way too hard, during warm up your heart rate should definitely be below 150.
Then you’re going too fast
Nordic 4x4 is one of my favorite speed sessions, not to long and grueling yet very effective
This has nothing to do with the Norwegian method, even though 4x4 was made popular by a Norwegian researcher. Best regards, a Norwegian
I have heard it being called the Norwegian 4x4 Method by Peter Attia-the term seems fine. However, in distance running, the Norwegian Method refers to 2 x double threshold days, not Vo2 max intervals.
What does it matter if you are Norwegian?
Chines whisper tends to distort the story. 😂
@@dovekie3437for the hard of thinking, being Norwegian is meant to give some additional credibility to the claim that the genesis of the technique is not Norwegian.
this training method really kicks your ass
Thursday nights training in Manchester England
2km steady warm up
7 Laps. . 80% speed 250m - 150m walk recovery...
3 x 150m spirits with 150m walk recovery
800m jog cool down...
Took about an hour... Hard work - much prefer a nice calm xc trail 😊
20 minute cooldown jog” - buddy that’s my workout
😂😂😂
Your warm up jog is my 100% effort 😢
So just high intensity intervals
I knew there was an easier way to convey this. Thank you!
But not too high
It’s not it’s Fartlek training HIIT is resting with static breaks and Fartlek is continuing running at various intensity’s which is what this guy is doing
I used to do 8x5min with 2 minute rest at 5k pace. It's super brutal. Give it a try.
Hey quick question , i just started running so im a newbie , all i do rn is just run 5k’s the fastest i can. so i run for around 40min total with warmup. How could a 8x5 at my 5k pace with break benefit me?
@@adrien2799 you should prioritize slow running as your total work out volume then trying to run 5k all out. Start to target long runs around 4-6 miles in one session. You'll see a lot of benefits. The idea of threshold running as the 8x5 minute runs is to build a more substantial tempo when you actually go and do a race. As a newbie run I would recommend one per month of that workout and concentrate on building your base running, i.e. long slow distance (LSD). After I got two hours of LSD I got a lot faster, needed less recovery and I was able to give more output on my runs. Now I'm not saying just jump into two hours off the bat. Take it easy start at 40 minutes and increase very slowly. Circle back to the 8x5min it's really to help keep that faster pace and even faster pace more steady and for longer times. You probably and this is me guessing your 5k you start fast and slow down a lot at the end. The workout is aimed to keep you at the same pace the whole race or even get negative splits at every km marker.
@@adrien2799having a break reduces the risk of injury, and also allows you to run at that pace for longer (40 minutes of 5k race pace not including warm up vs around 20-30 minutes not including warm up). Time trialing a 5k as fast as you can every day will not only be less efficient training wise, but also can have a serious risk of injury. I recommend a schedule of:
Monday - intervals
Tuesday - easy/slow/short run
Wednesday - light workout (ex tempo runs)
Thursday- easy run
Friday - intervals
Saturday - long run (around 20-30% of your weekly mileage)
Sunday - off
As a newbie you will improve with almost every strategie… focus on your basic before getting deeper
@@frankalias7516true , thank you
Basically a HIIT
Tried this out last week, it’s a good workout
The Norwegian training method is predicated on running higher volume by spending more time running at threshold & sub threshold paces to minimize fatigue & strain from workouts. Occasionally dipping into VO2 max work. Also where is this 13% improvement number coming from?
There was a study like ten years ago, where this increased the vo2 max for the runners I believe. Göran Winblad has a good reaction on this video, where he debunks a lot of the youtube running myths. Other than this not being the norwegian method, he also talks about how 13% can be achieved with almost every type of workout as a beginner and that this is also a fast way to get injured for a lot of runners😅
Too be fair I have 4times 800m "sprints" in my training plan, so I dont fully disagree with this kind of workout. Two times a week however is a really bad idea, focusing on more volume and slow runs will be way more beneficial for most runners.
I do this on the Stair Climber. Great workout!
I’m fat (5’8” and 220 lbs) and I’m just now getting to the point of 4 miles in about 40 minutes. My biggest problem is the fatigue of my calves and left ankle.
Running a 10k in 2 weeks, hoping to do it in less than an hour. I used to be a lot faster, but I stopped training.
i had that problem too and what helped me was getting new shoes and stretching my ankles/feet a bunch before running, also try to run more on your toes if you don’t already
Try some pre run drills and do some post run yoga, yoga with Adriene on YT
Keep going, you'll get there
Hope ur 10k went good
I also recommend running shoes with a wide toe box + power step insoles. Try tibialis raises and glute bridges 3x a week. Eventually hip flexor training if you really have an interest. I believe in you dawg
Strength train
Should I call for an ambulance before the workout or let someone call for me after the workout?
From my experience 3x a week is a minimum if you want to see actually good progress. It works shockingly well if you can do it that often.
I run that 5x1km for 4:00 and 5x500m rests. Perfect.
Ive heard that it allows your heart to stretch, and that is better as say to thicken. Body building gets your heart rate up, but its different, it causes the thickening. Im pretty new to the science based work outs so please correct me if I'm wrong there. Currently im exercising more to improve my fight training. My lungs are whats causing the biggest problem. During BJJ I know my arms, legs ect can still go for ALOT longer, but my lungs just wanna give up. Im trying different breathing techniques, incorporating more cardio, and have quit smoking tobacco. Im on vape currently (not really better, I know) and slowly making the switch to the new zyn/tobacco free nicotine stuff. I dont wanna hit a hard walk in that and jusy stay on the vape, despite its made me feel so much better than actual smoke. Thanks for the advice!
I like the sound of this
I'm gonna give it a try, thanks 👍
The video is clickbait you VO2 max wont increase by 13% from a workout, total BS
1. Be aware that swimming, cycling and running have different heart responses, and therefore different max heat rates, due to alterations in how the muscles provide power in each discipline. If you are a triathlete or multisport athlete, you cannot transpose the heart rate from one to the other and expect to be in the same zone.
2. This type of training has been around for decades now. At least the 90s, if not 80s. There is nothing new with this session. Not so sure this is the actual Norwegian method, as done by Ingebrigtsen, as currently understood in running.
Dude this is intense wtf
Thanks i will definitely try this today!
Ha, when I set up a run interval, that's pretty much exactly what I ended up. Good to know I inadvertently hit the right spot.
Can you maybe do something about back and shoulders while running, these sometimes cramp up during the exercise.
To be fair,be mindful how many intervals you do (coach Galloway, who seems to use this method for speed work throws way too many of them at the end of 10k training cycle). Too much too soon lead me to a lot of fatigue, overtraining and recurrence of ITBS.
That is a shitload of work. No wonder it increases the VO2 max by so much. Wouldn't expect anything less.
This is actually bs and he does not understand the method he is talking about😂
This is called interval training where you distribute your hrr into Work interval and rest interval
WOW! Something I have been doing to 4 decades.
*Easy! Now all I have to do to get started is get rid of the dog, the kids, the wife and the fulltime job and I'll have the time to do it! bubba! Yeah!!!* 😂
This kind of training (modified, systematic Fartlek training) is one of the secret training methods that most African (Kenyan) runners do, and it involves milking the dopamine system. As a high heart rate slows, the vagus nerve transmits impulses to the nucleus accumbens, which releases dopamine (the feel-good neurotransmitters) that are responsible for mood elevation (note: this effect is also experienced in food consumption, orgasm and recreational drugs.)
The people using this technique go out fast, then reduce their pace to what the rest of the field is running at, and after the dopamine surges (which is also a pain reliever) they jack up the pace again, leaving the rest of the field farther behind. Repeat as necessary.
I use this in open water swim training. It works, and it doesn't have to strictly adhere to the videographer's measurements. It is also the most significant working principle in Galloway.
This is world class athlete stuff. Just the jog is most people's 85-95% Max. Personally my warm up is a brisk walk.
I'll have to come back to this. I about met the Gods doing a 5k on a rower earlier today. Another day in the journey. Never quit friends. 🤙
This is for advanced runners btw and is SUPER difficult
Revolutionary
U had me dead at warm up
4x4 is sound but “85% of HR” doesnt guarantee you will increase oxygen transport. Using a blood lactate monitor to determine “threshold” is necessary. HR and lactate production is not linear
Not norwegian, just bread and butter vo2 interval 1-o-1.
Btw, Seiler a Texan in Norway says 4x8min @ 90% works better for most athletes.
Excellent! The Norwegian are the best and that’s a fact Jakob is king 👑 and lpurde
This workout will make my joints hurt at work
The true Norwegian method will increase VO2 max by a lot more and also push your lactate treshold along the way, but will require longer time.
Can't wait to try this.... Actually i can wait. Sounds tiring 😂
This is the workout made famous by Sebastian coe and its 3k-5k pace. Norwegian method is double thresholds
do you really need that long of a warm up/cool down?
20 min warm up jog. let's me stop you there good Mr. I gass around 13 min of the lightest jog. if i could go any slower i would, but it would look like i'm trying to do some kind of zombie dance.
What training block should this be done in?
That really works!!
This is similar to sweet spot training in cycling.
I thought the Norwegian method was lots of long, low intensity runs keeping your HR just at the aerobic phase?
Yes
So basically intervals. Thanks
I've noticed people are expanding as they exercise ! 7-2-24
What is this... like, 17 miles per workout?
Fartlek training
If you can find a Fartlek course nowadays.
I walk afterwards so my watch can capture an accurate heart rate recovery. Otherwise, 4x4 is solid gold.
did a 20 minute warm up jog, then died of heart failure. Don't recommend.
Push the cart to the WAAAYYY back of the WalMart parking lot at a sprint. Without getting run over.
Just like getting in the ring and box for 4 rounds !
How long do you have to train to get a 13% increase? A month, a year, a decade? Without this information this is pretty useless information.
other comment says 8 week with 3 workouts/week
The Norweigan runners tanked at the olympics
4X4
So basically 4… and then 3…
but-
4x4(3)
I do 5 mins warm up /cool off . I dont have enough left for a 20 min run after
If you are over 50 . This is one way ticket to sky I do 30 or 40 sec high intensity rest between 10,20,or 30 . For about 30 minutes . At 74 I am 20 years younger lol
Good workout but 13%… completely arbitrary number.
Do you need to change running shoes Un between as well?
10-20 minute warm up? That's my workout.
What if my warmup gets me to 80-90% heartrate lol. I do a slow jog at around 10-11min pace and hit 180-200 bpm. Any slower I'd be walking... :(
It's not the Norwegian training method, this is basic aerobic intervals that have been known about and been used for decades
Didn't know this was the norvegians who create this method...
Why would 85-95 be the 5k AND the 10k pace? Doesn’t make sense to me
Not just for the average Joe, but for many seasoned runners, this would be considered over training. Thus, setting yourself up for injury.
How is it overtraining? It's basically 4x1200 cruise intervals which is a pretty standard track workout
How is aerobically different than HIIT method? Regards.
Sounds like HIIT to me. Is there some sort of distinction?
Hopefully I can finish the warm up
You basically invent HIIT
I'm just running with your heart rate around where your 5K is I don't even know what my heart Great would be
Unless your in your late 40's with High Blood pressure then it decreases your VO2 max to 0
Science from the same research group also found out that only doing 1 block of 4 min at 90% increased your VO2 max with 10%…
Newbie runner. How can I do this if I dont have smart watch. Like how can I know that I am on the right HR?
A watch will be superior but you can try it out on feel. It won't feel like an all out sprint by the feeling you're looking for is going 80-90% effort.
if you a newbie u dont need this.
First try to run how you feel.
How is 4min at 5k pace going to get me 95% of max HR? I might be lucky to get max HR if I run a complete 5k at race pace. Where are they getting this math? Lol. 4 min to get 95% of max HR I would have to run at mile pace or something faster. Not 5k pace lol.
Then you aren’t running your 5K’s fast enough
This is nonsense. If you are at 95% of your HR after the first kilometer you are not going to be able to maintain that pace for the next 4 kilometers.
4minute at 5k pace is not going to get you 95% max HR lol. You will get max HR by running a 5k at race pace if you run your best race, many times people can't run their best race, they will hit 98 99% max HR during 5k. Also, 4minutes at 5k pace, will get you maybe 80%-85 HR, not 95%. To get 85-95% you need to run faster than 5k pace and multiple intervals back to back to back.
5k pace is ambiguous. Some people run it in 13min, others in 30 min. Totally different thing intensity wise. You need to specify in race time not distance.
Also 85-95% HR is a wide span. At 85% I am below lactate threshold, at 95% I am in Vo2max territory.
In other words useless intensity advice.
Is it still beneficial if you do it on the treadmill?? If you put the incline up high enough??
If it's about your heart rate, doesn't matter how you get there- road, treadmill, pool, treadmill.
@@TheMrsBeagle thanks. Does 30 mins on the treadmill have the same physiological fitness gain as 30 mins outside, both running same speed, and incline on the treadmill ??
@@na-dk9vm The only major difference between treadmill and outdoor running is the lack of wind resistance on the treadmill. This becomes more significant the faster you run. Anything below 6 min/km and the difference is negligible, at 5 min/km or faster you can increase the incline to 0.5% - 1% to compensate
Is this not just a Fartlek or am I confused I don't know much about running programming
This isnt the norweigen method
13 percent over what period? 3 months? 10 years?
Any workout to that gets my heart rate up eh? Time to call my gf for some cardio
Norwegian methods is measured in lactat levels, not HR
None of this is related to the ingebrigstens.
Yo, I see some runners wear like a belt around their chest. What’s that for?
Heart rate monitor belt connected to a running watch
4 round of the 4x4? So 16 total efforts?
85-95% of my max HR is kamikaze pace, not 5k pace
Any intervals 3-8 mins long will increase v02 max
in other words, low intensity cardio, followed by max interval cardio.
So it's a 48-68 min time commitment 😅
its also 600m-1200m repeats depending on your pace
I would pass out doing the first round.
Having done some thousand kilometres with this protocol and read all the status about it then improvement is 2% per training.
The woman in that clip had a dust mask on?!
Do you run with a stick in your hand
Why not call it a 4x3 instead of a 4x4??
#itscalledwokemath