Just try running slow. What's the worst thing that can happen? Threshold and Zones 'How-To' Guide: drwilloconnor.... • Strava: / strava #marathon #running #runner
Great video and brilliant advice. I started zone 1 training 6 weeks ago. This was my 3 mile test before starting all running at top of zone 1: Mile 1: 11:31. Mile 2: 13:20. Mile 3: 14:55. and now after 6 weeks of training this was my new test on July 1st: Mile 1: 11:29. Mile 2: 12:28. Mile 3: 12:35. Both runs done at the same heart rate and on the same course. Really happy with the improvements so far, not much difference in the first mile but huge improvements in subsequent miles. Will do a test monthly from now on. Thank you.
You allready have to be pretty fit to be able to stay in zone 1 while running. I've been getting straight into zone 3 while slowly jogging when I just begun running.
I noticed this to for me... I do a lot of fitness but was intentionally trying to do 10 ish minute miles but even by the first mile I was already at like 165-175 heartrate for the course of the next 5 miles.
When he called an 8 minute mile slow I almost died. I have a hard time maintaining 10 minute miles for anything longer than one hour while keeping my heart rate in zone 2. I am old (54) and just started training for an Ironman 3 months ago. If I managed an 8 minute mile pace for the Ironman I think I might just dance a jig. That sounds so far out of the realm of possibility right now that I can’t imagine it.
A question for Dr. Will: Is there such a thing as "calculable heat load?" What I mean is when a runner runs in 10 degree weather, you can go much further and faster since you can cool your body passively. You end up putting most of the load on your "training" instead of your "cooling." If you're running in 35 degree weather, you need to slow down quite a bit to maintain the same heart rate. A lot of your body's effort goes into "cooling" instead of "training." Is there an optimal temperature? Is there a way to make sure we're still loading the training side of the equation enough to get the stimulus we need instead of slowing down so much that 90% of your effort goes into the cooling side? I hope this question is clear. Thanks for making excellent videos!
For runners I've worked with who live in hot environments, I've broken down their efforts into more manageable intervals to balance that mechanical and metabolic workload. Typically, I would recommend say 2x 10km with 3-5min jog. In hot conditions (~30C - 86F), we might do 10x 2km with a 1-2min jog in an attempt to minimise heat accumulation.
You can get heat adapted. I started running with a hat and always wearing a shirt, and I was sweating bullets at first and dying but now barely notice it
I feel there must be a trade off somewhere for us regular runners. This very slow running is not efficient, we shuffle with poor form as we’re forcing a slower pace and not running relaxed. Neurological adaptation to poor form leads to injury. Keep it easy, yes, but not to the detriment of form.
I can run “slow” and have good form. I can even do it without getting tired. It’s just not at >6:30/km where cadence falls right off and I get zero heel lift. When you’re “working” to run slow, you’re running too slow.
@@EmileKleinhans This isn’t about MAF training. It’s about good mechanics. Will has his philosophy, other coaches will have a different attitude to this subject. In my opinion and experience, I think you can run too slow. I note Will himself doesn’t run this easy when extrapolating to his marathon PB 🤷♂️
This is where the power of strides can come into play from my understanding. Strides incorporate faster running into a slow run with very little impact and helps with the neurological adaptation you're talking about. Personally Zone 1 is a bit slower than I've heard recommended before but also I'm just a hobbyist runner. I typically run in zone 2, which feels fairly slow and low impact, but after watching this I'm going to experiment with more zone 1 training because it sounds...nice :)
Interesting to me that on a totally different matter, classical piano playing, working slowly is the number one advice delivered by all the greatest pianists 🤓
This is exactly what I needed to hear as a former college athlete who hasn’t run in over a decade now. It’s easy to think you need to try and regain all of that fitness/speed instantly. Not the case! Thanks for the info!
Elite training methods are interesting but i wonder how useful it is for the average runner like myself and if we are getting the right lessons to take away. Like a bodybuilder who has been working at it for 10 years and then radically changes their diet, and says the new diet is the only way to go. They are kidding themselves if they think their body is not built of 10 years of meat and eggs and whey protein. How did those elites get the capacity to run 4:30 to 5 min/k in zone 1? Also as you said they might be doing 14 sessions a week. So they need to be pretty well recovered from a run within about 12 hours. If I'm running 4 or 5 times a week, surely it makes sense to work harder in each of those runs up to the point I'm not accumulating fatigue into the next session. For me running zone 1 takes the enjoyment of out my runs, they become a dreary shuffle.
I’d almost rather stick with zone 2. I’m guessing a I can get that heart rate down under 130 with a 12 minute pace, but I still don’t understand the science of zone 1 vs zone 2 here
I mean of course you have a point there, and an interesting video in general! But: This doesn't take form into account, which would be oblivious for slower runners at that tempo. Also: when you don't run 200k per week, only fx. 40-80 (as I do), you can mix it up more (and get better results) - also because it's just more fun. Running that slowly seems super boring. Also taking into consideration that the extra time needed is a luxury.
Thanks Doc. I turned off "performance" on my garmin because I know objectively I'm getting fitter and faster and it says my performance is getting worse 😂
Should you ever intentionally adjust the speed of your easy runs? Or should you only focus on the intensity and your easy runs will naturally speed up?
Try Nike running club Guided run. Learning about “easy run” “recovery run” changed how I feel about running. You don’t need to run speed run or break PR all the time.. Most of runs need to be easy run. You are running slower than you can run. 60% effort
some categories there are 4 zones some there are 5. But zone 1 means about 110 per minute for zone 1 warmup zone. But thats like not even a slow jog. Unless you are like an amazing runner, which most of us are not.
While z1 may be walking for most people, most people also don't slowly increase the pace over time as their cardiovascular system catches up. That is how you ramp up. The effort should stay the same, but your body adapting will give the increase in pace, at its own pace.
Their zone 1 is already, most runners, race pace but yeah align it with ones own stats. Meaning manage expectations. Example my zone 1 is around 10 - 12min / km while most advanced runners are at 5min/km
I'm 21 and reletively fit, having run a 1:51 h half marathon, and through recently starting Zone 2 training, i find it very hard to go that speed (for context, my zone 2 pace is around 9 mins per kilometre) and so to "run" in zone 1 would literally be walking the whole way. I understand the point of this video, but to be realistic, it is only really possible (for me at least), once i have trained for many months in zone 2 to a point where my aerobic base is sufficient to allow me to actually run and not walk in zone 1. However, I am curious if walking in zone 1 would still be of similar benefit to snail paced zone 2 runs?
I think you miscalculated somehow, if you think your zone 2 is around 9m/km for a 1:51 half marathon runner. I have no chance of running that time and am around 7min/km zone 2.
Elite runners run in Z1 because their Z2 pace is too hard on their body but the more average runner should be in Z2 - or just below their aerobic threshold. You have good intentions but be careful encouraging average runners into Z1 as they won’t get enough out of those sessions.
I am really glad I found your channel def considering signing up for your unlimited plan. I’m a statistician and your data driven approach really appeals to me
i got here as a walker. and let me tell you, work same for me, i do most of my steps in zone 1-2, and then when i push myself after a while i can see the invisible progress. i ve got in 18 moths from nothing and 140 kg to 100kg and 15k steps a day at 5,5 kmh confortable speed.
You mentioned previously that the most important runs are your two key workouts and that mileage doesn’t really matter as much as people think. Probably misunderstanding but seems at odds with this video? Is the slow mileage just facilitating the ability to adapt in the workouts?
Hey Adam, yes, the easy runs facilitate consistency across hard workouts and long runs. The aim of the video was to highlight how we should focus on relative intensity instead of fixating on absolute paces. As well as drawing attention to how slow ‘relatively’ professional runners run their easy runs. I wanted to offer a reason for people to try running slowly on a couple of runs a week. It wasn't my intention to say you ‘have’ to run as slow as possible all the time.
I see a lot of comments complaining about slow paces. The first thing to consider is that Seiler and elites often use a 3 zone model. So yes, 80% of training should be done at zone 2 (in a 5 zone model). That doesn't mean everyone should spend 80% of their time shuffling in Z1 of the 5 zone model. One reasonable goal to set is to be able to spend more time in a jogging pace in zone 1 of 5. You're still going to need copious volume at Z2. Where most runners go wrong is they spend their Z2 time closer to z3 than z1. If you read Seiler's work, he says you get almost all the benefit running at the low end of Z2 as you do with running at the higher end of Z2, but with much less recovery demand.
I dumped the faster runs entirely and literally run every single run in mostly zone 2 (zone 1 is difficult for me to get down to without significantly altering my running style) with plenty of stops per run. My only fast runs are the races themselves.
Zone 1 is good when you have unlimited time. And also, we can look at resent Pogacar's trainings and they did the oposite. At the same time many cyclists have a lot, really a lot zone 1 recreational rides, and the do not became faster that much.
Thanks for the informative video! I’m hoping you can answer this question … if someone went from no running to 60 miles/week in 5 months, does that mean the no-more-than-10% increase rule doesn’t apply if all running is zone 1?
Yes, he differentiates medium, moderate, and heavy, which is referenced in their table to compare to the 7-zone model. His Zone 1 is a 7-zone model zone 1-2 (
@@drwilloconnorThen you're misrepresenting Seiler's work by conflating the two models. I don't think anyone in the comments is aware that elite runners do 90% of their distance at 75-80% maxHR steady state. You should probably delete the video, no offence. Cheers.
That chart is interesting but I'm also now confused - The divisions between zones are much different from what I've seen elsewhere. For me for instance, my watch tells me zone 3 is 130-149, while that's basically zone 2 here?
Viewers have to be careful not to make assumptions based on titles and even the way content is presented. "Zone 1" as presented here may not be what you think it is. Dr. Will does a pretty good job of explaining his system, but the HR range he's calling zone 1 is quite a bit higher than zone 1 in the system I train with from my COROS watch. Comparatively, the recommended paces would fall in the lower half of my Zone 2.
Funny how these Amateur Runners especially if you're under 50.. trying to COPY AND PASTE "World Class" runners.. hoping they can "hack themselves" by following their training regimen, diet , etc. DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. lol.. YOUR BODY WILL KICK UR ASS.. as it should be.
So a lot of people pointed out, but I'm going above 140 closer to 150, during casual jogging. I literally can fast walk with the same speed and lower heart rate. I'm not overweight or anything, just overheat and start sweating fast. What would you suggest?
Thank you very interesting! But why can't I see people like you for example 2:25-2:40 marathoners running 5:15-5:40min/km for their easy runs? The majority running below 4:55min/km. Maybe it's much better if the volume is in the 50-100miles range?
Hey Dr Will Is there any chance you can have a look at my Strava training recently? I have a race in 3 weeks, 3 months, and GC marathon next year and would love to work out a plan 😊
I run 8 min miles in hr 130-140. I’ve even running 60 miles per week for around 8 months . I do 1-2 easy runs. Week depending on whether I’m doing 1 or 2 tecnical sessions . With only one technical session only one of these easy runs are needed , so the rest of it can be hr 140-150.
I'm curious, my max heart rate is lower than most, as is my resting heart rate. Low 40s for resting, about 179-183 for max heart rate (I think I have a larger heart than average). Would I still follow this recommendation as linearly with this in mind? My lactate threshold is around 155-167, which would put me in the range of 95-105 HR for 55-63% of my lactate threshold.
Have you ever considered that training at zone 1 is a filler for these athletes? Because the amount of hard athletic training is limited by recovery. Does not mean the zone 1 training matters that much. Could just be slightly more optimal than complete rest.
I think it's more about WHY you run. I run 12 to 15 miles at a time for meditation. My mind runs 24/7 with ideas so running allows a focus to rest and get the runners high. Really centers me for the days and weeks ahead. If you are running to beat a pace or number then completely different. Some people love going on a run and not getting all technical about it. Just feel it, enjoy it, and not care about the details.
You may get injured letting your mind wonder w/o paying close attention to HOW your form is. Try meditating and thinking of your running form at the same time:Not even possible.....something has got to give!
sorry but i think Seller refers to zone 1 based on a 3 zones system, if you consider 5 zones , pro runners run between high zone 1 and zone 2.. i do not think they run 80% of the time just in zone 1 (based on a 5 zones )
With all my respect to your profession, I worked in a cardio-rehabilitation unit for long time (as physiotherapist not as a doctor), and heart rate is not a good reference for running. Is a practical one and easy to measure but lead to very inaccurate results. Pace is the most used, safe and efficient in all conditions, with a survey on HR and perceived Borg effort scale. Maximum aerobic speed is easy to approach by semi-Cooper test on healthy population (max consistent pace to hold 6 minutes after some warmup) and paces can be expressed in % of that speed.
As an ultra runner with MINOCA, that's fascinating, and I'm going to look into what you said! Running by HR is a drag when you're on 2 different meds that can affect HR, and stressed out by constantly worrying about it! (For those unfamiliar, MINOCA is a rare condition where you have a heart attack caused by a spike in BP, not by clots. My cardiologist signed off due to the health benefits of running, and the lower intensity of ultras. )
@@Kelly_Ben I re-edited my answer after some research. MINOCA is not so rare, I had some patients on the cardiac rehabilitation unit. Recommend intensity after revisiting my ancient notes were under first lactate threshold or around: this is between 65-75 % of the maximum aerobic speed. The issue here is how to determine MAS without a field test: If your cardiologist had performed an effort test then you got the best value. If not, is possible to perform a sub-maximal effort test: aerobic threshold on a treadmill is determined and the test is stopped. I recommend you to ask the cardiologist about this possibility: aerobic threshold or formally first lactate threshold (LT1) can be safety measured on the lab with treadmill. It doesn’t have the risk of maximal VO2 max tests because it will stops around 75% of your max probably or even less. With HR and meds that affect it is not recommended to use it as a reference. I will personally get pace and Borg scale perception, avoid running on high temperatures and be aware of long runs: all muscles including myocardium are stressed with time, not only by intensity.
I find pace a difficult measure as well. I live in South GA where the temperatures are routinely 90+F for 8 months of the year with VERY HIGH dew points (80+F right now in summer) resulting in heat indexes of 112-115F for many months. Runners that attempt to train at their 'races paces' end up in the Emergency Department with heat stroke frequently. Perceived effort is the only measure I will use, even during workouts. My pace, HR, cadence, etc is not important. I'm 61 and still running PRs with this method. Just ran 3:08:22 marathon and will hopefully go sub 3 in the fall.
@@jimoconnor8597 yep, you’re right: I was writing about normal conditions. There are some formulae that take humidity and heat into account and modify the target pace, but probably the fail due to individual response to overheat. In summer I also use perceived effort as reference, and pace & HR as secondary measures. And I don’t run intervals or thresholds unless those rare days below 20 degrees C…
For myself pace is irrelevent on zone 1 runs (and again everyone is different ) for me I keep my run between 107 - 120bpm and I know I am pretty bang on the money with my zone 1 run
I guess because I’m a new runner, even running a 10/mile pace for more than a few miles puts me into zone 4. Happens every time. I also interweave HIIT training so I’m at a loss. That said, I ran 8 miles on the trails at 17:56 yesterday in 97 Fahrenheit and did it in 2 1/2 hours. I’m clueless
LOL, I admit being guilty- Been stuck for 30 years not going any faster. Frustrating. Have given it all and yet perform like a beginner in time. :-)Perhaps it is time to try the ultra slow pace this summer
Ive got a couple of questions regarding long run pace/zone. I did a half marathon 7 weeks ago in training at 7:28 min miles. Vdot has my training paces at 8:42-9:30 for long runs. When running at bottom of zone 2 my pace is around 8:25 pace. Should i be running my long runs in zone 2 or at the pace suggested in vdot, which is about 1 minute mile slower than my sub 3:30 marathon target pace.
Super interesting video thanks Dr Will! To spend more time out there / get through more mileage while staying injury free, it makes a lot of sense. Using the 3 hour marathoner example, I find it pretty difficult to run as slow as 7min/kms - any suggestions on this? Even close to 6min/kms it just starts to feel really clunky. I guess a bit of practice will help. Running my slower stuff closer to 5-5.30min/kms, so I can definitely slow this down and hopefully see some results!
I'm in the same boat as you, fellow runner. I feel like my form just collapses and my running becomes jerky/inefficient any slower than the 5:30/6:00 mark. Running at 4:30 feels wonderfully fluid and is where my body wants to be. I'd love if anyone could point me in the direction of some resources to make 6:00 feel as good as 4:30; I'd be a slow running addict.
Potentially, you're continuously slowing yourself down rather than running slowly, which would feel clunky. Have you tried running with someone who is much slower than you? I ask because I don't notice the uncoordinated feeling when I run with people at 5:30-6min/km. When I'm solo, I very much notice how "slow" I'm running.
Hey! It's all about practice and getting used to it. My easy runs are much slower, at around 8:30/km. It felt really weird at first, but it helps to lower your stride length and increase your cadence. Your body will naturally adjust after some time!
I managed by increasing cadence & shortening stride length over the last few months. Aged 55 and with a 5K PB @ 20', a 6'/km Z1 (HR @ 115-120) run no longer feels awkward.
Running slow takes as much practice as running fast. Think about the amount of time you actually practice running slow concentrating on your form. Probably 1% of runs. Practice more, get better at it.
The problem with this information is that it is only relatable if you are fast. If you are a slow runner you just need to run significantly slower than your fastest pace. Don't worry about zone running. Run with feel. If you are heavy breathing you are running your easy run to fast. It's really that simple. If you run a 12 minute mile and that is your max then you should run easy runs by using a run/walk split. Run at 60 seconds walk 60 seconds to lower your heart rate. I don't know why everyone tries to compare someone to elite anything. Elite athletes won't watch this and people that are close don't need it either.
Honestly, this is advice for old people. If you're trying out for a team, you better be running as fast as you can at all times, or you're not going to make the team. If you're a true competitive runner, you're not even thinking about zones or any of this hobby jogger nonsense. You train with people who are better than you and try to keep up with them. Nobody is holding anything back at even the high school level and even the easy runs are fast. I think your videos should be honest. You are never going to put up competitive times if you're taking the advice in your video. If you run slow, you will race slow, period.
you guys all annoy me and every actual slow runner out there ; have you ever considered that likely 40%of most slow runners run 6 minute ks as a fast run; meaning for them a slow run is probably 7;30 a k; so you guys do a video touting elite runners ; try do a video talking about the average guy out there who struggles to run 10k in 60 minutes he /she is the person looking for guaidance those people who run 4;30 k already follow decent tra8ng programs; we need advice so A we don't injure ourselves and b we eventually get a little faster
Question: on a 5-zone scale, would your recommendation still have us running in zone one 80+ percent of the time, or also zone 2? There are a lot of recommendations online that most running should be in zone 2. Thank you.
Ok, but what about an even lower mileage? I only run ~ 3 hours (~25-30km when running ~80% Zone 2) on three days a week without the intention to increase this much higher as ~4 hours on average. Should I still run 80% of the time slow, or can I go faster since I have much more recovery anyway?
It doesn’t really translate though does it, at elite level, a 4min/km at an easy heart rate is still a moderate running pace physiologically/biomechanically, a sub 3hr marathon runner running 6:20min/km however isn’t even running anymore, you should probably just do something else, rather than shuffle about with terrible form. Maybe like 4:45-5:30 min/km would be more appropriate.
I get that if you are running 100k per week, lots of it should be slow. But.... What if you don't have 10 hours and only want to run (say) 50k per week or 3-4x per week? Making 40k of those 50k slow doesn't make sense to me because you aren't rising the same level of fatigue. Also I do cross training - 1-2 sessions on my bike - usually fartlek, and cycling doesn't fatigue anything as much as fast running does.
That would be 10k of intense running however you choose to do it! See my comments above. That is plenty of mileage to get fast on YES the intense biking helps plus NO impact!
Huge mistake to only consider the pace. Kipchoge runs about 200 km/week, which is why it's important to run slowly to avoid injuries. And injuries are the resut of overload, not pace only. But an amateur runner doesn't have the same volume at all. He doesn't have the same load either, and has more rest. So we absolutely cannot apply a coefficient of proportionality to evaluate the pace that an amateur runner should have. The real relevant value is the load and how it is distributed. Running too slow when the load is low is inefficient.
Is running in zone 1 really "training"? One wonders whether those elite runners could just as well spend 80% of their time sitting on the couch, or is there a data-proven benefit from doing all that low-intensity work?
Zone 1 is actually a recovery run, zone 2 is pretty much a easy run. Training only at recovery pace will not benefit you, it will only recover you from the hard training. You cannot be faster if you train at easy run or recovery run. You need to build up the anarobic base, then your body will adapt and eventually you will get faster. The anaerobic base is the foundation and this will make you faster by adapting to the training, thats can only be archieved by 82/92 % of your max heart rate. People who says 80% of their running is at zone 1 are just people who take advises from runners influences and old running data. Most elite runner runs around 13 training, 6 of this training is at a anaerobic pace. Most people consider this as “easy pace” but it is a moderate pace, thats they falsely conclude 80% is at easy pace. 20% is at a hard pace (vo2 max and aerobic intervals). In the summer you need to change the plans and focus on race specific training, those training will build up lactic because those training will prepare you for the races.
@@bimsytech9135 I agree with that. Training does not occur at zone 1 or 2 intensity UNLESS we run long enough at such a pace, but still, this will not give us the speed we may want to develop. For that, we need those higher intensity, lactate threshold sessions. I suspect too that a great amount of so-called recovery sessions are just junk, not even helping to recover, and one would be better off sitting on the couch. Despite the fact that it may be counter-productive, many of us just can't do that, and so we need to go out for some kind of a session...addiction to the activity I guess.
@@Avianthro Yes I also believe recovery run are just waistful, for my type of body. It is recommended for the easy days that the athlete doing his easy run pace at the morning (mostly 45 min to 1 hour) and his recovery pace in the afternoon/evening (20 tot 45 minutes). But I experienced that only doing the easy run at the morning my body feels fresh for doing the anaerobic paces the next day. Doing also a recovery run in the afternoon/evening on my easy day will just make me tired for the next day. But it is very complex. For example Jakob Igb hitting around 190 km a week and he is one of the best. The amount of km he is doing tells me that he is doing two easy run on his easy days. This also includes George Miles, one of the most prestigious athlete from Great Brittian who achieved world-class times this year, also hitting around 200 km when building his anaerobic base. However Grant Fisher doing less than 140 km a week and he is one of the best American athletes. Training must be specialized on the individual talent, someone can benefit from junk miles while other more at qualitative training and some easy run between.
Yeah nah. No records or PR's are being set by running "zone 1" for 80% of the week. Maybe during the base phase, but even then it's more like 30-50%. Running "zone 1" will simply just make you really slow. Curious as to the credibility of this study as no elite marathoner I've seen has spent so much time at 8:00-7:30/mile. If mara pace is 5 flat or below, the majority of training is going to be done at 6:45-6:00. Running this "zone 1" BS is a recipe for stagnation. No wonder your new guy who's is running 60 mile/week is continuously improving, he's a new runner FFS. Any kind of running is going to make him better.
According to this a 4 hour marathoner should run their long runs at a pace that is slower than a brisk walking pace - running this slow *or walking* will not really benefit you that much as a runner. I think that slower runners, even 3 hour marathoners can't just really do their easy runs so slow, as to having their slow pace compromise proper running form and gait. Elite runners can slow down a lot more in comparison, because they are still fast enough to maintain form.
That kind of is the point. Running slow with good form takes practice. I'm a 3:08 marathoner (just set PR this year) and run tons of slow miles @ 10:30-11:00/mile. 55-70mpw and 61 years old...
@@jimoconnor8597 When I started running, I was obese at 250lb and I could not even walk rapidly, without my heart rate bumping up to zone 3-4. People telling me that I need to run in zone 1 was just ludicrous at that time, it was literally impossible. Now I am lean and just ran a 5K in 19:49, with 80% of my runs in Zone 2. Maybe in the future, when my base fitness is better, I can do my base mileage in zone 1 - however, at this moment, just like when I started my running journey, I need to run my base faster to keep training a proper running form and running mechanics.
@@Spartan117FS Great work!! Continue on your journey. I'm a 19:09 5k runner at 61 years old and run slow. I also have a 100 mile race coming soon so the slow running I have mastered with good form and mechanics will serve me great. I do think if you are doing shorter races/runs, the mastery of Z1 might be overrated. When you get to the marathon and beyond, it does seem crucial. Continued healthy and success!!!!
@@jimoconnor8597 It's very admirable to keep going at that age - many people just make excuses to stop exercising when they get older. But these days it seems, everyone is making the same excuses, no matter what their age. I wish you well on your 100 mile run!
@@jimoconnor8597 there is NO way you are running 19 min for 5k 'training' on LSD i.e. 10 min miles then sailing in on sub 7:00 min in a 5k! YOU MUST be doing some hard training during the week.....tell me how you train Ok I saw your comment below you do run tempo runs and interval work very good Tell me what your intense w/o's are I'm 72! I'm not running anything over 4 miles for a time my marathon days were 40 years ago! They aren't really good for the heart according to Dr O'keefe but hey everyone is different
It's important and tough to run slow. Running slow with good form takes as much practice as running fast does. Most are not willing to dedicate the time. Lots of excuses why not to run slow in the comments. Those people probably remain injured, don't progress over the years and have a poor aerobic base. Marathoning will be tough for them. Its all priorities and if you want to be great at longer distances for a long period of time, you have to do more slow running. And you can't just do it for a few months. Building that big aerobic base takes years of these easy runs and then the dividends pay big! Kipchoge proves this year after year.
Yes but to get fast once your 'base' is 'established' you need to do more intense runs/repeat hills/tempo runs/90% max HR (fartlek(free running from say to a spot you sight perhaps a 100m,200m away UPtempo) or track w/o's! The elite runner's do 2 intense workouts a week along with LD runs and I'm sure they add some intensity to that 1x/wk as well! There IS NO one way to train and get fast BUT you must build an aerobic base and do some intense running OR will you NOT improve I don't care how many 10 min miles you run you will NOT string 6-8:00 min miles together NO way
@@dennispacelli1007 Just FYI, I'm 61 and ran 3:08:22 @ CIM 2023. Not to shabby. 85% of my miles are 10:30/mile or slower. Solid chance I go sub 3 in Chicago this fall. 7:11/mile pace is absolutely possible and was not hard for me. I do a single WO a week out of my 50-65mpw. Be glad to link to my CIM results if you need the proof. It was my 5th marathon, not an athlete and just started running at age 54. I also have a 19:09 5k PR that I ran 8 months ago during a marathon build with ZERO miles anywhere near that pace. Never have been on a track. You need some intensity but not as much as you think if you can consistently put together 2,500 mile years. Staying healthy is more important than intensity to me.
Completely unnecessary to run so many hours every week. I run two times a week and made it to a 3:06 marathon. Its just like weighlifting; do it very focused once a week and always try to improve on your last session. If you run 10 km in 48 min one week. Then just try to beat it the next week. If you run 90 mins one week, then go for 105 mins next week. One time trial and one increasingly longer run each week. This is all it takes.
NICE! I walk a tremendous amount each week and run some within these walks. Hills/tempo runs maybe 4x5 min 75%, a time trial each week mile / 2 mile /3 mile max, 10 x 30 sec-60 sec runs at 90% I'm 72(look 50 sorry to boast we Italians age gracefully) and ran an 8:05 mile Tuesday and 2 weeks ago a 25 min 35 sec 3 mile so you are correct include varying intensities during the week! You have to build a foundation first. 40 years ago I was a 2:57 marathoner/17:45 5k/36:10 10k /5:12(1600m) but laid off for decades to focus on a career raise a family. Now that I'm single I started training 2 years ago to the month and I could NOT run 200 m w/o stopping. I have nothing to do now but work on my fitness and I do go to the gym 5 days a week for full body w/o's BUT NO heavy lifting . Hope this helps and I'm a chiropractor/massage therapist/nutritionist/licensed HS teacher as well.
Yeah, Kipchoge can "run" in zone 1. I´m in zone 1 while reading the weather report at my desk....
😂
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Your comment is funny .... and true for me as well. 😀
💯👍
@@vincentt6906 : You' haven't seen funny at all. SAD..
My wife said something and I immediately hit zone 2 …
time for a divorce if you ever wanna bq
Great video and brilliant advice. I started zone 1 training 6 weeks ago. This was my 3 mile test before starting all running at top of zone 1:
Mile 1: 11:31.
Mile 2: 13:20.
Mile 3: 14:55.
and now after 6 weeks of training this was my new test on July 1st:
Mile 1: 11:29.
Mile 2: 12:28.
Mile 3: 12:35.
Both runs done at the same heart rate and on the same course. Really happy with the improvements so far, not much difference in the first mile but huge improvements in subsequent miles. Will do a test monthly from now on. Thank you.
You allready have to be pretty fit to be able to stay in zone 1 while running. I've been getting straight into zone 3 while slowly jogging when I just begun running.
So, you can cycle instead when you want to keep low zones but can't while running. It's a lot easier to do while cycling
Or walk on a treadmill adjusting speed and incline for intensity
Takes two weeks at most to adjust, as long as you leave ego at the door, which you don’t
I noticed this to for me... I do a lot of fitness but was intentionally trying to do 10 ish minute miles but even by the first mile I was already at like 165-175 heartrate for the course of the next 5 miles.
@@BasedAnalyst cool, so? 10 minutes is an all out mile PR for me and I can still stay in zone 2 on easy runs without a problem
When he called an 8 minute mile slow I almost died. I have a hard time maintaining 10 minute miles for anything longer than one hour while keeping my heart rate in zone 2. I am old (54) and just started training for an Ironman 3 months ago. If I managed an 8 minute mile pace for the Ironman I think I might just dance a jig. That sounds so far out of the realm of possibility right now that I can’t imagine it.
Same! 8 minute miles are my GOAL for RACE PACE! 😂
10 minute mile and zone 2 still is great IMI
@@Kelly_Ben NOT in an Ironman! At least not this guy!
DITCH the Ironman they are dangerous to the heart A-fib look up Dr O'keefe he'll tell you!
10 minute is my mile PB and even that was hard fought
A question for Dr. Will: Is there such a thing as "calculable heat load?" What I mean is when a runner runs in 10 degree weather, you can go much further and faster since you can cool your body passively. You end up putting most of the load on your "training" instead of your "cooling." If you're running in 35 degree weather, you need to slow down quite a bit to maintain the same heart rate. A lot of your body's effort goes into "cooling" instead of "training." Is there an optimal temperature? Is there a way to make sure we're still loading the training side of the equation enough to get the stimulus we need instead of slowing down so much that 90% of your effort goes into the cooling side? I hope this question is clear. Thanks for making excellent videos!
For runners I've worked with who live in hot environments, I've broken down their efforts into more manageable intervals to balance that mechanical and metabolic workload. Typically, I would recommend say 2x 10km with 3-5min jog. In hot conditions (~30C - 86F), we might do 10x 2km with a 1-2min jog in an attempt to minimise heat accumulation.
You can get heat adapted. I started running with a hat and always wearing a shirt, and I was sweating bullets at first and dying but now barely notice it
I feel there must be a trade off somewhere for us regular runners. This very slow running is not efficient, we shuffle with poor form as we’re forcing a slower pace and not running relaxed. Neurological adaptation to poor form leads to injury. Keep it easy, yes, but not to the detriment of form.
Just focus on your form? If you cant run slow and have a good form, how can you have a good form when you are tired?
I can run “slow” and have good form. I can even do it without getting tired. It’s just not at >6:30/km where cadence falls right off and I get zero heel lift. When you’re “working” to run slow, you’re running too slow.
Run slow and walk in between to get heart rate lower.
@@EmileKleinhans This isn’t about MAF training. It’s about good mechanics. Will has his philosophy, other coaches will have a different attitude to this subject. In my opinion and experience, I think you can run too slow. I note Will himself doesn’t run this easy when extrapolating to his marathon PB 🤷♂️
This is where the power of strides can come into play from my understanding. Strides incorporate faster running into a slow run with very little impact and helps with the neurological adaptation you're talking about. Personally Zone 1 is a bit slower than I've heard recommended before but also I'm just a hobbyist runner. I typically run in zone 2, which feels fairly slow and low impact, but after watching this I'm going to experiment with more zone 1 training because it sounds...nice :)
Interesting to me that on a totally different matter, classical piano playing, working slowly is the number one advice delivered by all the greatest pianists 🤓
This is exactly what I needed to hear as a former college athlete who hasn’t run in over a decade now. It’s easy to think you need to try and regain all of that fitness/speed instantly. Not the case! Thanks for the info!
Same. It’s hard comparing yourself to your own past
Elite training methods are interesting but i wonder how useful it is for the average runner like myself and if we are getting the right lessons to take away. Like a bodybuilder who has been working at it for 10 years and then radically changes their diet, and says the new diet is the only way to go. They are kidding themselves if they think their body is not built of 10 years of meat and eggs and whey protein.
How did those elites get the capacity to run 4:30 to 5 min/k in zone 1? Also as you said they might be doing 14 sessions a week. So they need to be pretty well recovered from a run within about 12 hours. If I'm running 4 or 5 times a week, surely it makes sense to work harder in each of those runs up to the point I'm not accumulating fatigue into the next session.
For me running zone 1 takes the enjoyment of out my runs, they become a dreary shuffle.
I run my first marathon last October, 3:19. My 5K is at 19:40. My east run is at 6:00-6:30 per K, around 10 mins per mile.
I’d almost rather stick with zone 2. I’m guessing a I can get that heart rate down under 130 with a 12 minute pace, but I still don’t understand the science of zone 1 vs zone 2 here
I mean of course you have a point there, and an interesting video in general! But:
This doesn't take form into account, which would be oblivious for slower runners at that tempo.
Also: when you don't run 200k per week, only fx. 40-80 (as I do), you can mix it up more (and get better results) - also because it's just more fun. Running that slowly seems super boring. Also taking into consideration that the extra time needed is a luxury.
I love this video because I've been doing this for years and have avoided injury.
Thanks Doc. I turned off "performance" on my garmin because I know objectively I'm getting fitter and faster and it says my performance is getting worse 😂
2:29 Bro, I recently bought a smartwatch to track my hr and 10:00/km was already my Zone 2 😭, how can I go to Zone 1? Do I literally have to walk?
Great video Dr. Will! I'm enjoying working with you as a coaching client and am seeing great results!
Hey Ben! Thanks 🤜🤛
Should you ever intentionally adjust the speed of your easy runs? Or should you only focus on the intensity and your easy runs will naturally speed up?
I have a problem with hearing zone 1 and run in a single sentence. How does that even work?
Try Nike running club
Guided run.
Learning about “easy run” “recovery run” changed how I feel about running.
You don’t need to run speed run or break PR all the time..
Most of runs need to be easy run. You are running slower than you can run. 60% effort
Awesome video Will, thanks!
Calling bs. An average person zone 1 is walking
some categories there are 4 zones some there are 5. But zone 1 means about 110 per minute for zone 1 warmup zone. But thats like not even a slow jog. Unless you are like an amazing runner, which most of us are not.
While z1 may be walking for most people, most people also don't slowly increase the pace over time as their cardiovascular system catches up. That is how you ramp up. The effort should stay the same, but your body adapting will give the increase in pace, at its own pace.
@DanceTurbo not happening if you just stay in zone 1
Yes, average people should be walking and hiking for hundreds of hours before even attempting to be runners.
His zone 1 is upto 139bpm on his 7 zone model @RealStrategyGamingClassics
3:52 I'm not even running that fast when all out sprinting.🤣
Their zone 1 is already, most runners, race pace but yeah align it with ones own stats. Meaning manage expectations. Example my zone 1 is around 10 - 12min / km while most advanced runners are at 5min/km
For us mere mortals, we should crosstrain at Z1. Running at Z1 is almost impossible.
I'm 21 and reletively fit, having run a 1:51 h half marathon, and through recently starting Zone 2 training, i find it very hard to go that speed (for context, my zone 2 pace is around 9 mins per kilometre) and so to "run" in zone 1 would literally be walking the whole way. I understand the point of this video, but to be realistic, it is only really possible (for me at least), once i have trained for many months in zone 2 to a point where my aerobic base is sufficient to allow me to actually run and not walk in zone 1. However, I am curious if walking in zone 1 would still be of similar benefit to snail paced zone 2 runs?
I think you miscalculated somehow, if you think your zone 2 is around 9m/km for a 1:51 half marathon runner. I have no chance of running that time and am around 7min/km zone 2.
Elite runners run in Z1 because their Z2 pace is too hard on their body but the more average runner should be in Z2 - or just below their aerobic threshold. You have good intentions but be careful encouraging average runners into Z1 as they won’t get enough out of those sessions.
I am really glad I found your channel def considering signing up for your unlimited plan. I’m a statistician and your data driven approach really appeals to me
If dont have that time you can run less and faster. Dont fallnfor training plans for professional runners.
I can't even run in zone or 2, maybe a few hundred yards, then I have to walk
This is pure gold! Thank you Will
i got here as a walker. and let me tell you, work same for me, i do most of my steps in zone 1-2, and then when i push myself after a while i can see the invisible progress. i ve got in 18 moths from nothing and 140 kg to 100kg and 15k steps a day at 5,5 kmh confortable speed.
I know you want to go easy, Z1, BUT when you do that, are you doing that zone longer?
You mentioned previously that the most important runs are your two key workouts and that mileage doesn’t really matter as much as people think. Probably misunderstanding but seems at odds with this video? Is the slow mileage just facilitating the ability to adapt in the workouts?
Hey Adam, yes, the easy runs facilitate consistency across hard workouts and long runs.
The aim of the video was to highlight how we should focus on relative intensity instead of fixating on absolute paces. As well as drawing attention to how slow ‘relatively’ professional runners run their easy runs.
I wanted to offer a reason for people to try running slowly on a couple of runs a week. It wasn't my intention to say you ‘have’ to run as slow as possible all the time.
I see a lot of comments complaining about slow paces. The first thing to consider is that Seiler and elites often use a 3 zone model. So yes, 80% of training should be done at zone 2 (in a 5 zone model). That doesn't mean everyone should spend 80% of their time shuffling in Z1 of the 5 zone model.
One reasonable goal to set is to be able to spend more time in a jogging pace in zone 1 of 5. You're still going to need copious volume at Z2.
Where most runners go wrong is they spend their Z2 time closer to z3 than z1. If you read Seiler's work, he says you get almost all the benefit running at the low end of Z2 as you do with running at the higher end of Z2, but with much less recovery demand.
The study mentioned in the video uses a 5 zone system and he personally uses a 7 zone system
Well done! Thanks for info!
Worked for me. Slowed down. Increased mileage. Ran a 5km Pb at 49. No injuries. Win win.
great video, as always 😊
Would cycling at zone 1 still have the same effect??
I dumped the faster runs entirely and literally run every single run in mostly zone 2 (zone 1 is difficult for me to get down to without significantly altering my running style) with plenty of stops per run. My only fast runs are the races themselves.
Doesn’t Seilar often use 3 zones model?
Zone 1 is good when you have unlimited time. And also, we can look at resent Pogacar's trainings and they did the oposite.
At the same time many cyclists have a lot, really a lot zone 1 recreational rides, and the do not became faster that much.
Thanks for the informative video! I’m hoping you can answer this question … if someone went from no running to 60 miles/week in 5 months, does that mean the no-more-than-10% increase rule doesn’t apply if all running is zone 1?
Seiler’s work is based on a 3 zone model
Yes, he differentiates medium, moderate, and heavy, which is referenced in their table to compare to the 7-zone model.
His Zone 1 is a 7-zone model zone 1-2 (
@@drwilloconnorThen you're misrepresenting Seiler's work by conflating the two models. I don't think anyone in the comments is aware that elite runners do 90% of their distance at 75-80% maxHR steady state. You should probably delete the video, no offence. Cheers.
That chart is interesting but I'm also now confused - The divisions between zones are much different from what I've seen elsewhere. For me for instance, my watch tells me zone 3 is 130-149, while that's basically zone 2 here?
Viewers have to be careful not to make assumptions based on titles and even the way content is presented. "Zone 1" as presented here may not be what you think it is. Dr. Will does a pretty good job of explaining his system, but the HR range he's calling zone 1 is quite a bit higher than zone 1 in the system I train with from my COROS watch. Comparatively, the recommended paces would fall in the lower half of my Zone 2.
Funny how these Amateur Runners especially if you're under 50.. trying to COPY AND PASTE "World Class" runners.. hoping they can "hack themselves" by following their training regimen, diet , etc. DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. lol.. YOUR BODY WILL KICK UR ASS.. as it should be.
So a lot of people pointed out, but I'm going above 140 closer to 150, during casual jogging. I literally can fast walk with the same speed and lower heart rate. I'm not overweight or anything, just overheat and start sweating fast. What would you suggest?
thanks this is very informative and aligns with my current goal
Thanks!
Thank you very interesting!
But why can't I see people like you for example 2:25-2:40 marathoners running 5:15-5:40min/km for their easy runs? The majority running below 4:55min/km. Maybe it's much better if the volume is in the 50-100miles range?
Well explained! Can we connect for coaching?
But why zone 1 and not zone 2? What happens in zone 1? Would it make it much harder to progress if I do easy runs in zone 2?
I have completed 1mile in 7.10sec ....i want to complete it in 6.30sec ...please suggest me what to do ...
Hey Dr Will
Is there any chance you can have a look at my Strava training recently?
I have a race in 3 weeks, 3 months, and GC marathon next year and would love to work out a plan 😊
I run 8 min miles in hr 130-140. I’ve even running 60 miles per week for around 8 months . I do 1-2 easy runs. Week depending on whether I’m doing 1 or 2 tecnical sessions . With only one technical session only one of these easy runs are needed , so the rest of it can be hr 140-150.
8 min hr 120-130 *
You are incorrect, they spend 80% in Zone 2 not Zone 1.
I'm curious, my max heart rate is lower than most, as is my resting heart rate. Low 40s for resting, about 179-183 for max heart rate (I think I have a larger heart than average). Would I still follow this recommendation as linearly with this in mind? My lactate threshold is around 155-167, which would put me in the range of 95-105 HR for 55-63% of my lactate threshold.
A large heart would be a bad thing, as it would take up room that belongs to standard sized lungs. You have an efficient heart, not a large one
Look at Maffetone formula.
Have you ever considered that training at zone 1 is a filler for these athletes? Because the amount of hard athletic training is limited by recovery. Does not mean the zone 1 training matters that much. Could just be slightly more optimal than complete rest.
The 80+ percent mentioned at 1:46 means time spent or distance ran?
I think it's more about WHY you run. I run 12 to 15 miles at a time for meditation. My mind runs 24/7 with ideas so running allows a focus to rest and get the runners high. Really centers me for the days and weeks ahead. If you are running to beat a pace or number then completely different. Some people love going on a run and not getting all technical about it. Just feel it, enjoy it, and not care about the details.
You may get injured letting your mind wonder w/o paying close attention to HOW your form is. Try meditating and thinking of your running form at the same time:Not even possible.....something has got to give!
If you run for leisure then obviously this video is not for you. Stupid comment
I need this for my squash.
Great advice for ultra runners
Great content that has the potential to help so many runners significantly improve their performance 🤜🤛
Zone one for me is backwards
sorry but i think Seller refers to zone 1 based on a 3 zones system, if you consider 5 zones , pro runners run between high zone 1 and zone 2.. i do not think they run 80% of the time just in zone 1 (based on a 5 zones )
With all my respect to your profession, I worked in a cardio-rehabilitation unit for long time (as physiotherapist not as a doctor), and heart rate is not a good reference for running. Is a practical one and easy to measure but lead to very inaccurate results.
Pace is the most used, safe and efficient in all conditions, with a survey on HR and perceived Borg effort scale.
Maximum aerobic speed is easy to approach by semi-Cooper test on healthy population (max consistent pace to hold 6 minutes after some warmup) and paces can be expressed in % of that speed.
As an ultra runner with MINOCA, that's fascinating, and I'm going to look into what you said! Running by HR is a drag when you're on 2 different meds that can affect HR, and stressed out by constantly worrying about it! (For those unfamiliar, MINOCA is a rare condition where you have a heart attack caused by a spike in BP, not by clots. My cardiologist signed off due to the health benefits of running, and the lower intensity of ultras. )
@@Kelly_Ben I re-edited my answer after some research. MINOCA is not so rare, I had some patients on the cardiac rehabilitation unit.
Recommend intensity after revisiting my ancient notes were under first lactate threshold or around: this is between 65-75 % of the maximum aerobic speed.
The issue here is how to determine MAS without a field test: If your cardiologist had performed an effort test then you got the best value.
If not, is possible to perform a sub-maximal effort test: aerobic threshold on a treadmill is determined and the test is stopped.
I recommend you to ask the cardiologist about this possibility: aerobic threshold or formally first lactate threshold (LT1) can be safety measured on the lab with treadmill. It doesn’t have the risk of maximal VO2 max tests because it will stops around 75% of your max probably or even less.
With HR and meds that affect it is not recommended to use it as a reference. I will personally get pace and Borg scale perception, avoid running on high temperatures and be aware of long runs: all muscles including myocardium are stressed with time, not only by intensity.
You know your stuff!
I find pace a difficult measure as well. I live in South GA where the temperatures are routinely 90+F for 8 months of the year with VERY HIGH dew points (80+F right now in summer) resulting in heat indexes of 112-115F for many months. Runners that attempt to train at their 'races paces' end up in the Emergency Department with heat stroke frequently.
Perceived effort is the only measure I will use, even during workouts. My pace, HR, cadence, etc is not important. I'm 61 and still running PRs with this method. Just ran 3:08:22 marathon and will hopefully go sub 3 in the fall.
@@jimoconnor8597 yep, you’re right: I was writing about normal conditions. There are some formulae that take humidity and heat into account and modify the target pace, but probably the fail due to individual response to overheat.
In summer I also use perceived effort as reference, and pace & HR as secondary measures.
And I don’t run intervals or thresholds unless those rare days below 20 degrees C…
For myself pace is irrelevent on zone 1 runs (and again everyone is different ) for me I keep my run between 107 - 120bpm and I know I am pretty bang on the money with my zone 1 run
you have to build a very strong base to be able to handle the fast workouts!! That’s how the body works, the stronger the base the more you handle
BINGO! Read my comments above you said it in fewer words but I was making a point.....well done!
I guess because I’m a new runner, even running a 10/mile pace for more than a few miles puts me into zone 4. Happens every time. I also interweave HIIT training so I’m at a loss. That said, I ran 8 miles on the trails at 17:56 yesterday in 97 Fahrenheit and did it in 2 1/2 hours. I’m clueless
Great information
LOL, I admit being guilty- Been stuck for 30 years not going any faster. Frustrating. Have given it all and yet perform like a beginner in time. :-)Perhaps it is time to try the ultra slow pace this summer
Ive got a couple of questions regarding long run pace/zone. I did a half marathon 7 weeks ago in training at 7:28 min miles. Vdot has my training paces at 8:42-9:30 for long runs. When running at bottom of zone 2 my pace is around 8:25 pace. Should i be running my long runs in zone 2 or at the pace suggested in vdot, which is about 1 minute mile slower than my sub 3:30 marathon target pace.
ótimo vídeo, o problema é vencer a teimosia dos amadores que não aceitam correr leve
Dr. Will how many zones are you referring to? Dr. Seiler’s talks about 3 Zones. You do 7 Zones. Garmin does 5 Zones. 😂
Super interesting video thanks Dr Will! To spend more time out there / get through more mileage while staying injury free, it makes a lot of sense.
Using the 3 hour marathoner example, I find it pretty difficult to run as slow as 7min/kms - any suggestions on this? Even close to 6min/kms it just starts to feel really clunky. I guess a bit of practice will help. Running my slower stuff closer to 5-5.30min/kms, so I can definitely slow this down and hopefully see some results!
I'm in the same boat as you, fellow runner. I feel like my form just collapses and my running becomes jerky/inefficient any slower than the 5:30/6:00 mark. Running at 4:30 feels wonderfully fluid and is where my body wants to be. I'd love if anyone could point me in the direction of some resources to make 6:00 feel as good as 4:30; I'd be a slow running addict.
Potentially, you're continuously slowing yourself down rather than running slowly, which would feel clunky. Have you tried running with someone who is much slower than you? I ask because I don't notice the uncoordinated feeling when I run with people at 5:30-6min/km. When I'm solo, I very much notice how "slow" I'm running.
Hey! It's all about practice and getting used to it. My easy runs are much slower, at around 8:30/km. It felt really weird at first, but it helps to lower your stride length and increase your cadence. Your body will naturally adjust after some time!
I managed by increasing cadence & shortening stride length over the last few months. Aged 55 and with a 5K PB @ 20', a 6'/km Z1 (HR @ 115-120) run no longer feels awkward.
Running slow takes as much practice as running fast. Think about the amount of time you actually practice running slow concentrating on your form. Probably 1% of runs. Practice more, get better at it.
The problem with this information is that it is only relatable if you are fast. If you are a slow runner you just need to run significantly slower than your fastest pace. Don't worry about zone running. Run with feel. If you are heavy breathing you are running your easy run to fast. It's really that simple. If you run a 12 minute mile and that is your max then you should run easy runs by using a run/walk split. Run at 60 seconds walk 60 seconds to lower your heart rate. I don't know why everyone tries to compare someone to elite anything. Elite athletes won't watch this and people that are close don't need it either.
Honestly, this is advice for old people. If you're trying out for a team, you better be running as fast as you can at all times, or you're not going to make the team. If you're a true competitive runner, you're not even thinking about zones or any of this hobby jogger nonsense. You train with people who are better than you and try to keep up with them. Nobody is holding anything back at even the high school level and even the easy runs are fast.
I think your videos should be honest. You are never going to put up competitive times if you're taking the advice in your video. If you run slow, you will race slow, period.
you guys all annoy me and every actual slow runner out there ; have you ever considered that likely 40%of most slow runners run 6 minute ks as a fast run; meaning for them a slow run is probably 7;30 a k; so you guys do a video touting elite runners ; try do a video talking about the average guy out there who struggles to run 10k in 60 minutes he /she is the person looking for guaidance those people who run 4;30 k already follow decent tra8ng programs; we need advice so A we don't injure ourselves and b we eventually get a little faster
Thing is zone 1 for elite athlete is vo2 max for us.
Question: on a 5-zone scale, would your recommendation still have us running in zone one 80+ percent of the time, or also zone 2? There are a lot of recommendations online that most running should be in zone 2. Thank you.
It would be in zone 2 or even 3 depending on what your heart rate is for the zones. Zone 1 would be walking or very light exercise.
For Garmin it would be zone 2-3. Garmin's Zone 1 & 2 is very low.
@@drwilloconnor Thank you both. Would running just below Zone 2 on this scale, in Zone 1, be too easy for optimal adaptations?
Ok, but what about an even lower mileage? I only run ~ 3 hours (~25-30km when running ~80% Zone 2) on three days a week without the intention to increase this much higher as ~4 hours on average. Should I still run 80% of the time slow, or can I go faster since I have much more recovery anyway?
Who cares. Just run what you want. There's no best way.
It doesn’t really translate though does it, at elite level, a 4min/km at an easy heart rate is still a moderate running pace physiologically/biomechanically, a sub 3hr marathon runner running 6:20min/km however isn’t even running anymore, you should probably just do something else, rather than shuffle about with terrible form. Maybe like 4:45-5:30 min/km would be more appropriate.
I get that if you are running 100k per week, lots of it should be slow. But.... What if you don't have 10 hours and only want to run (say) 50k per week or 3-4x per week? Making 40k of those 50k slow doesn't make sense to me because you aren't rising the same level of fatigue. Also I do cross training - 1-2 sessions on my bike - usually fartlek, and cycling doesn't fatigue anything as much as fast running does.
That would be 10k of intense running however you choose to do it! See my comments above. That is plenty of mileage to get fast on YES the intense biking helps plus NO impact!
Huge mistake to only consider the pace. Kipchoge runs about 200 km/week, which is why it's important to run slowly to avoid injuries. And injuries are the resut of overload, not pace only.
But an amateur runner doesn't have the same volume at all. He doesn't have the same load either, and has more rest. So we absolutely cannot apply a coefficient of proportionality to evaluate the pace that an amateur runner should have.
The real relevant value is the load and how it is distributed. Running too slow when the load is low is inefficient.
Is running in zone 1 really "training"? One wonders whether those elite runners could just as well spend 80% of their time sitting on the couch, or is there a data-proven benefit from doing all that low-intensity work?
Zone 1 is actually a recovery run, zone 2 is pretty much a easy run. Training only at recovery pace will not benefit you, it will only recover you from the hard training. You cannot be faster if you train at easy run or recovery run. You need to build up the anarobic base, then your body will adapt and eventually you will get faster. The anaerobic base is the foundation and this will make you faster by adapting to the training, thats can only be archieved by 82/92 % of your max heart rate. People who says 80% of their running is at zone 1 are just people who take advises from runners influences and old running data. Most elite runner runs around 13 training, 6 of this training is at a anaerobic pace. Most people consider this as “easy pace” but it is a moderate pace, thats they falsely conclude 80% is at easy pace. 20% is at a hard pace (vo2 max and aerobic intervals). In the summer you need to change the plans and focus on race specific training, those training will build up lactic because those training will prepare you for the races.
@@bimsytech9135 I agree with that. Training does not occur at zone 1 or 2 intensity UNLESS we run long enough at such a pace, but still, this will not give us the speed we may want to develop. For that, we need those higher intensity, lactate threshold sessions. I suspect too that a great amount of so-called recovery sessions are just junk, not even helping to recover, and one would be better off sitting on the couch. Despite the fact that it may be counter-productive, many of us just can't do that, and so we need to go out for some kind of a session...addiction to the activity I guess.
@@Avianthro Yes I also believe recovery run are just waistful, for my type of body. It is recommended for the easy days that the athlete doing his easy run pace at the morning (mostly 45 min to 1 hour) and his recovery pace in the afternoon/evening (20 tot 45 minutes). But I experienced that only doing the easy run at the morning my body feels fresh for doing the anaerobic paces the next day. Doing also a recovery run in the afternoon/evening on my easy day will just make me tired for the next day. But it is very complex. For example Jakob Igb hitting around 190 km a week and he is one of the best. The amount of km he is doing tells me that he is doing two easy run on his easy days. This also includes George Miles, one of the most prestigious athlete from Great Brittian who achieved world-class times this year, also hitting around 200 km when building his anaerobic base. However Grant Fisher doing less than 140 km a week and he is one of the best American athletes. Training must be specialized on the individual talent, someone can benefit from junk miles while other more at qualitative training and some easy run between.
Bollocks!😂😂😂
Kipchoge DOES do SLOW running, but very LITTLE of it.
MOST of his training IS @ 5-6 min mile pace.
5:20 per km is about 8:35 per mile not 8:00
Conversions 🤦♂️
Yeah except that their Zone 1 is Zone 5 for mere mortals.
Bro, I “WALK” in zone 1 🤦🏻♂️
Zone 1 up to 139 bpm, wow - that´s ... high. Crazy high. Your HR numbers look weird to say the least but I am no professional on that topic.
You are so good, ditch the background music.
if running in zone 2 5 days a week wasn’t agonizing and boring enough for us average runners, try zone 1!
I walk in zone 2 lmao
Please stop numering zones. There are so many numbering schemes Zone X doesn't tell anything without naming the system being used.
Yeah nah. No records or PR's are being set by running "zone 1" for 80% of the week. Maybe during the base phase, but even then it's more like 30-50%. Running "zone 1" will simply just make you really slow. Curious as to the credibility of this study as no elite marathoner I've seen has spent so much time at 8:00-7:30/mile. If mara pace is 5 flat or below, the majority of training is going to be done at 6:45-6:00. Running this "zone 1" BS is a recipe for stagnation. No wonder your new guy who's is running 60 mile/week is continuously improving, he's a new runner FFS. Any kind of running is going to make him better.
According to this a 4 hour marathoner should run their long runs at a pace that is slower than a brisk walking pace - running this slow *or walking* will not really benefit you that much as a runner.
I think that slower runners, even 3 hour marathoners can't just really do their easy runs so slow, as to having their slow pace compromise proper running form and gait.
Elite runners can slow down a lot more in comparison, because they are still fast enough to maintain form.
That kind of is the point. Running slow with good form takes practice. I'm a 3:08 marathoner (just set PR this year) and run tons of slow miles @ 10:30-11:00/mile. 55-70mpw and 61 years old...
@@jimoconnor8597 When I started running, I was obese at 250lb and I could not even walk rapidly, without my heart rate bumping up to zone 3-4.
People telling me that I need to run in zone 1 was just ludicrous at that time, it was literally impossible.
Now I am lean and just ran a 5K in 19:49, with 80% of my runs in Zone 2.
Maybe in the future, when my base fitness is better, I can do my base mileage in zone 1 - however, at this moment, just like when I started my running journey, I need to run my base faster to keep training a proper running form and running mechanics.
@@Spartan117FS Great work!! Continue on your journey. I'm a 19:09 5k runner at 61 years old and run slow. I also have a 100 mile race coming soon so the slow running I have mastered with good form and mechanics will serve me great. I do think if you are doing shorter races/runs, the mastery of Z1 might be overrated. When you get to the marathon and beyond, it does seem crucial. Continued healthy and success!!!!
@@jimoconnor8597 It's very admirable to keep going at that age - many people just make excuses to stop exercising when they get older.
But these days it seems, everyone is making the same excuses, no matter what their age.
I wish you well on your 100 mile run!
@@jimoconnor8597 there is NO way you are running 19 min for 5k 'training' on LSD i.e. 10 min miles then sailing in on sub 7:00 min in a 5k! YOU MUST be doing some hard training during the week.....tell me how you train Ok I saw your comment below you do run tempo runs and interval work very good Tell me what your intense w/o's are I'm 72! I'm not running anything over 4 miles for a time my marathon days were 40 years ago! They aren't really good for the heart according to Dr O'keefe but hey everyone is different
5:20 is zone 1...? 😢
It's important and tough to run slow. Running slow with good form takes as much practice as running fast does. Most are not willing to dedicate the time. Lots of excuses why not to run slow in the comments. Those people probably remain injured, don't progress over the years and have a poor aerobic base. Marathoning will be tough for them. Its all priorities and if you want to be great at longer distances for a long period of time, you have to do more slow running. And you can't just do it for a few months. Building that big aerobic base takes years of these easy runs and then the dividends pay big! Kipchoge proves this year after year.
Yes but to get fast once your 'base' is 'established' you need to do more intense runs/repeat hills/tempo runs/90% max HR (fartlek(free running from say to a spot you sight perhaps a 100m,200m away UPtempo) or track w/o's! The elite runner's do 2 intense workouts a week along with LD runs and I'm sure they add some intensity to that 1x/wk as well! There IS NO one way to train and get fast BUT you must build an aerobic base and do some intense running OR will you NOT improve I don't care how many 10 min miles you run you will NOT string 6-8:00 min miles together NO way
@@dennispacelli1007 Just FYI, I'm 61 and ran 3:08:22 @ CIM 2023. Not to shabby. 85% of my miles are 10:30/mile or slower. Solid chance I go sub 3 in Chicago this fall. 7:11/mile pace is absolutely possible and was not hard for me. I do a single WO a week out of my 50-65mpw. Be glad to link to my CIM results if you need the proof. It was my 5th marathon, not an athlete and just started running at age 54. I also have a 19:09 5k PR that I ran 8 months ago during a marathon build with ZERO miles anywhere near that pace. Never have been on a track. You need some intensity but not as much as you think if you can consistently put together 2,500 mile years. Staying healthy is more important than intensity to me.
@@jimoconnor8597 Thanks! very impressive....
@@jimoconnor8597 i live in middle GA as well beats the north for running for sure
Completely unnecessary to run so many hours every week. I run two times a week and made it to a 3:06 marathon. Its just like weighlifting; do it very focused once a week and always try to improve on your last session. If you run 10 km in 48 min one week. Then just try to beat it the next week. If you run 90 mins one week, then go for 105 mins next week. One time trial and one increasingly longer run each week. This is all it takes.
NICE! I walk a tremendous amount each week and run some within these walks. Hills/tempo runs maybe 4x5 min 75%, a time trial each week mile / 2 mile /3 mile max, 10 x 30 sec-60 sec runs at 90% I'm 72(look 50 sorry to boast we Italians age gracefully) and ran an 8:05 mile Tuesday and 2 weeks ago a 25 min 35 sec 3 mile so you are correct include varying intensities during the week! You have to build a foundation first. 40 years ago I was a 2:57 marathoner/17:45 5k/36:10 10k /5:12(1600m) but laid off for decades to focus on a career raise a family. Now that I'm single I started training 2 years ago to the month and I could NOT run 200 m w/o stopping. I have nothing to do now but work on my fitness and I do go to the gym 5 days a week for full body w/o's BUT NO heavy lifting . Hope this helps and I'm a chiropractor/massage therapist/nutritionist/licensed HS teacher as well.
This is on point. Gotta leave that ego on the sideline.
honestly for normal people this slow running trend is a great excuse for lazy people nothing else
If you should just run at 10 min miles then everyone should be a sub 3 hour marathoner lol
Zone 1? Lol, no ways bro