Redrafting Round One of the 1991 NHL Entry Draft
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- What if Lindros hadn't been taken at #1 by Quebec?
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Drafting then trading Lindros was the best thing to happen to Quebec/Colorado, along with Detroit blowing out Montreal and allowing Colorado to acquire Roy
I agree with you, without the Lindros trade...in this timeline I predict that Quebec goes to Colorado, but without all the pieces(Sandis Ozolish included) I am not certain they have enough 'firepower' to beat Detroit in playoffs that year. Lindros playing in New Jersey could also mean a longer career for #88, and possibly more Finals appearances for the Devils(96,97,99,00).
Man, one forgets how damn lucky the Devils were that San Jose took Falloon over Niedermayer.
Lindros might have a few cup rings if the Devils took him. Might have a longer career too because Stevens wouldn't be hitting him (at least not on purpose).
There''s always practices... Keep your head up Eric lol
think kasparitis is the one who knocked his head loose stevens was the 3rd or 4th who got him good and ended him lindros would probaby still have been concussed out. head down staring at the puck was the only way he handled it.
@@ryanw8220 oh so you’re part of the shitty group of people who excuse bad people doing bad hits by saying keep your head up.
It’s better it played out like it did, he was too full of himself and had the attitude of Calder and the Cup reserved for him, plus the nonsense about not going to Quebec
@@ryanw8220 I'd pick Forsberg 100 times over Lindros...Peter Forsberg is a better player
The Colorado avalanche would like to thank Eric Lindross and the Philadelphia flyers for 2 Stanley cups.
Fun fact Peter Forsberg didn't play in the 2001 conference and Stanley Cup Finals and the Avs still won.
and Claude Lemieux cheap shots
This pre-recorded stuff is spooky, twilight zone kinda like
It’s a bit spooky, but very intuitive
It's TEG in Vegas
There’s two of him
Yay, Peter Forsberg is #1! Over all, 1991 draft was pretty damn good.
I feel like it produced a high number of strong defensive players.
Lindros was the more dominant player of the 2. If Lindros had Sakic, Foote, Blake, Roy, Borque, as teammates his numbers would have been insane.
@@Dan-jm2sc Well, Bourque was for a brief time, but it's a fair point to proffer.
@@Dan-jm2scForsberg was injuried for over half his carreer. Forsberg > Lindros all day.
At first I thought "who do you pick in this draft ahead of Lindros?" and then you put down Forsberg and Niedermeyer and I thought, "yeah ... you're right."
Peter Forsberg was a true once in a generation type talent. He was not only an extremely prolific playmaker and scorer in general, but one of the most hard nosed and defensively responsible forwards of his era. A champion twice over, an Art Ross and Hart winner, and while his style of play probably led to more injuries than he would care for, when he was on he was as great a player as existed in the Dead Puck Era. Definitely the best player in his draft class.
Scott Niedermayer was an elite skater, a very smart and aware defenceman who was a great leader and always put his team first. Deserved his Norris, more crucially deserved his Cups and gold medals.
One does wonder what Lindros could have done had the last half of his career not been so mired with injuries though ...
Lindros at his best was still the best I contend...
Imagine the anger in Leafs Nation if they ended up giving up the pick for Eric Lindros in exchange for Tom Kurvers.
That was looking like it may happen but the Leafs management made further moves mid season with the Nordiques, where they sent I believe more draft picks for decent roster players effectively making Quebec worse and the Leafs better.
Once they realized how bad the initial trade was they lost more assets due to the embarrassment of losing out on Lindros, who at the time was supposed to be the next Gretzky/Lemieux level.
Arguably the worst moves in franchise history.
Love the appreciation of Ozolinsh. Thank You Shannon
So underrated. He and Krupp were the perfect defense partners
@@MrOctober44 agreed. Its a shame what happened to him after leaving NA
Forsberg was an absolute BEAST.
You need to do a 2009 redraft like this!! There were SO MANY good players!
If I'm the Nordiques, I still take Lindros because you end up with Forsberg anyway but then receive all of the other pieces that later plant the seed for two cups later on for the Avs when you thrash the Flyers in that trade.
@@TheBEARofHIGHWAY1 then again, so are these redrafts.
So many memories on this board... Thank you!
This was awesome! Right in my wheelhouse. I'd love to see more of these from the 80's/90's!
Here's the thing. If NJ drafted Eric Lindros on Earth 31, he and Scott Stevens would've won at least 4 Stanley Cups together, because... Stevens would never have hit Lindros. And also because Lou is much smarter than Clarkie. At that point, you'd be taking Lindros at #1 again in the Earth 32 redraft.
Plus Niedermayer doesn't get the support by playing with Stevens & Driver. Nor does he get the tutelage of the greatest defensive coach of all time, Larry Robinson.
Whole different world.
HOWEVER no one of planet Earth doesn't pick Lindros number 1 back in the day. Almost stupid to speculate otherwise.
Avs fans just sitting here watching this man destroy our 96 cup (Watch Dangle's trade tree about Lindros)
Have a great holiday, you both deserve it, cheers for the content while away it's much appreciated 💚💜
My Kings didn’t have a first round pick, but (actually) ended up with Palffy, Stumple, Murray, Perrault, and O’Donald, Zhitnik.
In a recent interwiew on radio Canada, lindros say he didnt want quebec only because Marcel Aubut , the president. He hate that man. Not because of the city, not because of the people of the city.
Put Osgood in the HOF, I’ll argue anyone on it for the rest of my days
Same. Man got robbed of a Vezina as well.
Osgood in and Larionov out.
Awesome video. I’d say honorable mention to Richard Matvichuk as a Stars fan but other than that great list
Barring injuries, I believe forsberg would have been a top 10 player ever.
Even with the injuries he is at least top 30 of all time in my book.
Cmon man... MIke Bossy "barring injuries" would have played another decade and scored 2000 NHL goals.
Can't play that game, we could do this all day.
There's a fun Forsberg video where he plays pick-up hockey as 'Kent.'
Peter Forsberg was the best player in that draft class for sure! And yes, Niedermayer second is a sound pick, tho I could consider putting Lindros there as well.
Czerkawski And Ozolins should have made the first round tho, somewhere on the right half, and definitely not among the last few.
Assuming you're talking about Sandis Ozolinsh, Shannon had him at 10th.
I would have taken Czerkawski over Konowalchuck but otherwise pretty solid redraft.
@@jonmendelson1104
Oh shit how did I miss that. I must have phased out lol. Then I am only missing Czerkawski.
Scott Niedermayer would be my pick but Forsberg was traded and became the corner stone and was awesome as well But Scotty was an amazing player all the cups gold medals for me he is better but I mean obviously couldn’t go wrong with either
But thats the thing, Forsberg has all the cups and gold medals too, they are both part of the tripple gold club, ur right though there is no way to go wrong between the 2 of them.
Of course, based in reality, Niedermayer is clearly number 1.
Lindros was still the best player in that draft. And the haul Quebec got from trading him was huge. So, in hindsight Quebec should still draft Lindros
YES!
Speculation on this draft is oh so stupid. EVERYBODY on planet Earth had Lindros going first overall.
Even Hockey Guys board is brutal since Niedermayer obviously had the best career of everyone in that draft and it isn't even close.
If everyone had that hindsight available to them, Philadelphia trades far fewer pieces for Lindros, and maybe doesn’t make the trade at all. That’s the whole point of these redrafts.
What would be reasonable nice to tell hockey coaches and management in 1991 is to take concussions seriously. Lindros is far from the only player to have his career, and by extension the entire sport, curtailed by unnecessary concussions.
Not sure if the Avs win the cup in 96 and 01 by drafting Forsberg... We'll never know, but the Lindros trade gave them so many assets to trade for big names (Patrick Roy, Rob Blake, Claude Lemieux, Mike Kean, Ray Bourque, Alex Tanguay through a pick)
These are so fun! Thank you for posting sir 🤗
My dad was a junior hockey coach in 1991, and I was 11. I remember how much he HATED Eric Lindros. He used to tell me that he was going to get destroyed physically in the NHL because he skated with his head down. He and my grandpa coached in the prairies for 40 years. We spent entire weekends talking and playing hockey. My dad was the one who discovered Sami Jo Small, she played on his boys midget team for three years in high school. He took a lot of heat for that from parents. I'm so proud that he never backed down. I got to run drills with her at practice, she was an amazing goalie. Both of them are passed now, and you're my new The Hockey Guy.
Michael Nylander being drafted in this redraft by Hartford was great.
Love Forsberg at first overall!
Sean O’Donnell was one of my favorite players on the 2007 Ducks
I remember when he was trash for NJ. Looks like you got the better end of the deal.
redrafting 1991!!! Nice!! The good old days
Good! you drafter Peter Forsberg first now I can go on watching
These Redraft videos are great! Keep it up!
As an Avs fan since 95, I cannot argue with Forsberg at #1, but I think you also have to recognize that being a member of an extremely stacked Nordiques/Avalanche franchise really made a difference in Forsberg's career.
While their regular season output is actually quite comparable (both have less than 800 games with a similar p/gp), it's really in the playoffs where Forsberg's career was elevated to another level: 151 games, 171 pts, 2 Stanley Cups, 5 in the conference finals, 14 postseasons. Lindros' appearance in the 1997 finals is what we all remember, but the fact that he only participated in the postseason 6 times is a bit shocking. And that's where the competitiveness of the Avs in that time frame as a whole is the key difference.
So yeah I am actually not sure that you'd necessarily draft Forsberg before Lindros. In the end, the real irony is that Lindros could have had a far more prolific playoff career in a Nordiques/Avalanche shirt, and that is what he turned down by choice.
Your daily reminder that Chris Osgood should be in the HHOF.
OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE
These re-draft vids are VERY entertaining....great work Shannon! Seems like Falloon should be 1st round....but hard to argue with THG's picks. But hard to argue this was a great draft class. BTW, all the concussions Lindros suffered weren't from on ice play. Certainly one of the rumors or parts of all the rumors are true since Lindros was concussed in the locker room by somebody. This SOB obviously thought more of himself than the team and got exactly what he deserved. Personally, I like the Tocchet version....the ultimate team warrior and teamate.
3 Red Wings draft picks going in the first round. That's good drafting.
Really nice to hear Shannon with some Osgood love, easily the most underrated netminder! Love these re-drafts, and hockey history videos. LGRW🐙🏒🤘
Definitely came to the comments to point out that 'knowing the future' every single person who ever cheered for Detroit would have taken Osgood
Still Nordiques had been geniuses to take Lindros...Just Forsberg VS Lindros is limit.
Add Duchesne,Hextall,Simon,Ricci,Huffman,two first and 15M ...I don't think Colorado would have won the cup in 96 without that trade.
They got lucky. That’s not genius. They didn’t understand that Lindros meant it when he said he wouldn’t play for Quebec. They drafted him expecting him to play fir them, not to create a year-long holdout that fortunately came out with a team sucker enough to give up all they did. All this because everyone really believed they had the next Gretzky in Eric Lindros. That’s the thing about hindsight - everyone involved has it, and in hindsight Lindros is an awesome forward but not close to being in the debate for GOAT. And that’s what they thought he would be in 1991.
OMG Naslund was a stud he Morrison and Bertuzzi where a force … great vid and what a video great stuff man
Yes, he and Bertuzzi were great. Morrison was just along for the ride, and could have been any other nhl center.
So many great players in that draft. Forsberg my all time favourite, but top 6 in the same draft is crazy good.
I never liked forsberg for some reason.
@@shaan1001 Detroit fan? 😄 It's ok to disagree of course.
He was a monster, hard to see why as a hockey fan someone would not like him. Maybe prefer someone else to him but can't see why anyone couldn't see he was a great hockey player.
@@JustBrowsing777 To be fair, it could be just disliking the person, not the player. If a player kicks my dog, I don't care if he's the best player ever, I'll still dislike him (in no way is this a comment about Forsberg. He could've been the nicest person in the world off the ice, I've had zero interactions with him and didn't see anything with a 30 second google search).
Additionally, like in your example, he could've played for Detroit. As a Sharks fan, I hate most of the players for teams that have the letters 'k' 'g' n' and 'i' in their team name (the Kings and the Knights), regardless of how good of a player or person they are.
@@jonmendelson1104 Absolutely, but it's been quite a few years now since he retired and with time most of us can look back at players with a bit of a different perspective 🙂
3 former Adirondack Red Wings go in the first round. Detroit's dynasty was BUILT in little Glens Falls NY.
It would cool to see videos for top picks of the last 2 rounds over a 5 yr span or so, which would showcase how well certain franchises are at finding diamonds in the rough. Most years you only get a few players in the last 2 rounds getting a taste...but there are some amazing finds in the later rounds out there.
Given everything Quebec got for Lindros (Forsberg being only one of a whole boatload of pieces that they got for him), it’s hard to imagine Quebec/Colorado becoming the powerhouse they became had they drafted Forsberg in the first place. They’d be competitive but not one of the three most dominant teams of the pre-lockout era.
I was wondering when you were going to do Drafts from the 90s! Should definitely do the 1990 draft, if memory serves me right that the Canucks got Antoski that year
Yes and Selgar and Peter Nedved
@@coachrobwille4176 That's right!
Zigmund should have went 3B
I'd put him 4th.
I went to this draft when I was 9 years old!
Zhitnik would have had some countrymen on the team (Zubov, Nemchinov), but lets be honest, Keenan would have run him out of town during 1994.
My father hated Markus Naslund early in his career. He took him in our family fantasy draft for 93-94 for his rookie year on Pittsburgh expecting a Rookie of the Year point total and he got 11 points.
Past Shannon is aware future Shannon is in Vegas 👀
Future Hurricanes legend Sandis Ozolinsh ( :P ). Always found himself voted in as an All Star starter, guess Latvia really turned out for him.
You should do 1999 specifically to decide if hank sedin goes above zetterburg
Alright, here we go. If there was 32 teams (this one is going to be controversial):
1. Ray Whitney (blessed by longevity)
2. Alexei Kovalev
3. Peter Forsberg
4. Markus Naslund
5. Eric Lindros (hurt by longevity)
6. Scott Niedermayer
7. Brian Rolston
8. Zigmund Palffy
9. Michael Nylander
10. Jozef Stumpel
11. Glen Murray
12. Chris Osgood
13. Sandis Ozolins
14. Martin Rucinsky
15. Mike Knuble
16. Alexei Zhitnik
17. Yanic Perreault
18. Dean McAmmond
19. Mariusz Czerkawki
20. Steve Konowalchuk
21. Martin Lapointe
22. Brian Savage
23. Pat Falloon
24. Philippe Boucher
25. Igor Kravchuk
26. Dmitri Mironov
27. Brian Holzinger
28. Sean O'Donnell
29. Patrick Poulin
30. Dmitri Yushkevich
31. Bill Lindsay
32. Steve Staios
I notice I underrate defensemen and goalies, especially since I dropped my favourite player from 3rd to 6th.
Great video! Could you do the 2014 redraft? I know you did it a couple years ago, but i think alot of players from that draft have «risen to fame» the last few years. Especially later picks
Nah, Lindros is still the best player out of the bunch. Foreseberg and Neidermeier were excellent players, but benefited from their circumstances. If you theoretically swap out Lindros for Forsberg on those Avs teams, they'd be just as successful.
Forsberg was the best player in Colorado.
Lindros would have been just Lindros. Quebec got a boatload of players and money for him. Forsberg unquestionably had a better career just on a personal level than Lindros anyway, never mind 2 Cups to none for Eric.
@@MDK2_Radio forsberg was a more skilled player than Lindros. Forsberg also had a stronger will
@@staffan144 agreed.
IMO Forsberg had a longer prime than Lindros.
While Scott Niedermayer was ALWAYS in "his prime".
Nordiques were so smart to draft Lindros. They end up with the best player in the draft later anyway (Forsberg) plus more.
I'm not a big Lindros fan, but he dominated the game in a way nobody else ever has. His combination of skill and physicality was truly unique. If you're using hindsight, take Lindros and tell him to keep his head up crossing the blueline. You can't tell Forsberg to not have funny shaped feet. Truth is, both would be right behind Wayne and Mario in the all time conversation without those injuries. Either would be a worthy 1st
Can't "dominate" when you are KTFO
@@yoholmes273 tough to argue that one.
Interesting list. I had Niedermayer 1st due to the longer career. Also had Matvichuk, Czerkawski and P. Boucher on my list. But other than those, very similar lists
People can say what they like about Lindros, but his peak years were still better than anyone else's including Forsberg. Lindros was a child-man prodigy and played like it for at least half a decade.
Imagine that you could actually see the future and pick accordingly? Would change the whole way the league would look and all. Forsbeg with Quebec, Quebec almost made a killing with trading Lindros, such a pick would end up still moving to Colorado with a much weaker team.
Forsberg absolutely goes 1. Top 5 all-time all-around player. If I was trading away Forsberg you would have to give me Lindros and some additional high draft picks.
Niedermayer ABSOLUTELY goes number one and it isn't even close.
@@yoholmes273 true, Niedermeyer isn’t close to Forsberg’s level. He just stayed healthy.
@@MDK2_Radio What a truly absurdist comment.
Niedermayer has won every single major championship one can win in North American & international professional hockey competition.
He would clearly be the number 1 overall on this redraft.
Then again , since this is entirely fantasy, perhaps you could fantasize about WHAT IF Forsberg wasn't ALWAYS injured.
However, back in reality, Scotty Niedermayer obviously goes number one.
@@yoholmes273 if the subject is the NHL but my guy isn’t as good as another, I’d change the argument too. (Actually, I wouldn’t because for me, honesty is more important than feelings.)
No chance Lindros would have dropped lower than two, Jack Ferriera would have fallen down running for the mic 3 seconds after San Jose went on the clock.
"Remember, Eric; it's not when you go, but where... and what you do." - Shane Wright's dad :)
6 former LA Kings on this list. You need to do a career video of Ziggy Palffy.
First name I don’t recognize is the one the Canucks got. Talk about having bad draft luck even in hypothetical.
Was surprised to hear kovalev after naslund....just always rememberes kovalev being a threat with pit and mtl whereas naslund didn't seem as problematic as an opponent
This is the big one for me as a Sharks fan. I think if we had taken Niedermayer instead of Falloon and then in 1993 had taken Pronger instead of Kozlov, we would have won a cup or two.
Fun fact : one of the 2 Oilers first picks was from part of the Wayne Gretzky trade from 3 years earlier.
I was born in ‘91!🥳
Pronger and Niedermayer. Best defensive tandem in Nhl history? Has to be one of the best ever.
I really wish we could have read Internet forum threads about that Lindros thing and the trade lol
fun fact ray whitney has the most points in this draft and has the most assists
longevity helps with that. He played 1330 games while the best offensive players played significantly fewer (ie: Forsberg had 708, Lindros had 760). Kovalev was number 2 in points and also number 2 in games played.
What am I missing here?
I looked up Sean O'Donnell and it shows him being drafted in 1991, but in the sixth round by Buffalo.
I'm confused as to what you're confused about. This is a redraft done a few days ago of Shannon's current opinion of the order the players would have been picked if the draft was redone with knowledge of how the players' careers turned out. He only did the first 22 picks (aka the first round), but he didn't restrict himself to players who were originally selected in the first round. A sixth round pick is still a player who was draft eligible that year.
With th 6th pick the flyers select you guessed it…….NOLAN PATRICK! Though he is 8 years before he is born they have hunch and they ain’t down with Cale makar!
I’d have the Islanders draft Kovalev, purely to prevent all the goals he would have scored against them.
HAAAAAAAA
I kinda agree with this list
Sheesh...The last few of these you have put together Shannon reminds me of the days when the Blues never had a 1st round pick........
Look at the Panthers. Unless they have a lottery pick, they'll have gone like 4-5 years without a first rounder (assuming they don't trade any more away).
Edit: Or trade to get one.
When is he career of Steve Durbano video?
1963 draft next?
Another draft where the Leafs said, "Nah, we don't need to get involved." As they so often do. But then they got Yanic and that was good, until they decided it wasn't and traded him away.
Detroit drafted a guy named Bart Turner. Wish he would have played. Detroit also drafted an Andrew Miller, different guy than the Drew Miller they got from the Ducks and obviously different than the Andrew Milller drafted by the Detroit Tigers.
Nice hotel room, very homie 😆
To be fair, if Lindros wasn't so injury prone, he'd probably have had a more illustrious career than Forsberg and Niedermayer combined.
His abilities were not superior to theirs, so even injury free I don't see him putting up more PPG than he did on days he was healthy.
THG and TEG taking turns beaming each other back to the ship
man i want to make an argument for lindros as number 1, as his first 5 years he had just a good production as forsberg ever did, but forsberg was just a better overall player. Having them both would be a dream. in the 90's i think you'd need 2 from sakic/gretzky/lemieux to beat that 1-2 punch,
If any goalie could win with Detroit, why didn’t Cujo? Osgood is very underrated! Big Cujo fan as well!
On those Detroit teams a goalie could go 10 minutes without a shot. That's tough for some of them. Cujo always seemed to get better the busier he was.
Hal is right. Cujo needed to face shots to stay sharp. Detroit’s defense was too good for a goalie like him, paradoxically enough.
Dangles trade tree I think proves you want to draft, then trade Lindros like Quebec did. They handled it perfectly
Pretty strong draft year
Oilers Drafted current head scout Tyler Wright @12 in ‘91 sorry “director of amateur scouting” think that’s just a fancy way of saying head scout though…also the irony of Lindros going to New Jersey is that he wouldn’t be going head to head(get it) with Scott Stevens and therefore may have avoided the numerous early concussions and therefore enjoyed a much longer and productive career. People seem to forget just how dominant he was when he was healthy. The legion of doom line was THE dominant force in hockey for a good few years!
So there's an alternative universe out there where Ziggy Palffy dies because of Bobby Clarke's negligence.
A Detroit blueline with Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Chiasson, Howe, and Ozolinsh is interesting.
Sharks strongly pursued Niedermayer in 05 but he wound up going to Anaheim to play with his brother, Rob. What changes if he goes to SJ? They probably get off to a better start in 05-06 and may not even trade for Thornton.
the trouble with Kovalev was his questionable work ethic, not his defensive game, some evenings he just didnt even try; with that talent he could have cracked 120pts. in a season
Sharks got Sandis Ozolinsh, an offensive Dman, in the second round.
Lindros has to be one of my favorite players to ever lace up a pair of skates but even I cannot argue with the logic.
Ironically, Forsberg going 1 overall hurts the future Avalanche as they don't get the depth pieces from Philly. Though in this timeline, the Devils are a bigger monster of a franchise than they already were.
The entire point of these redrafts is that they're done with perfect hindsight.... meaning that Philadelphia, knowing full well what everyone knows now, won't trade everything for him, and probably won't trade for him at all if they have Forsberg.
I actually would have taken Niedermayer #1 myself because of his entire career and he avoided the injuries Forsberg and Lindros got but I'd have Forsberg #2 as I've always rated Forsberg a baby step above Lindros as both similar but at their absolute peak for me Forsberg is JUST ahead
Toronto has been trading there frist round pick for as long as I can remember
Doug Weight proved second rounds can be Hall of Famer’s
Even undrafted player(s) have made the HHOF. Off the top of my head I only have St. Louis, but I'm sure there are others. There have also been 9th rounders (Robitaille), ...
@@jonmendelson1104 You can add Dino Ciccarelli to the undrafted list.
The draft is something of a crapshoot. If anyone could see the kind of careers Datsyuk and Zetterberg would have, both would have gone top 5 in their drafts instead of the late rounds, when teams are getting warm bodies for their affiliates. Heck, I think Ryan O’Reilly would have been a first rounder if teams knew what he would be, keeping in mind that first pick of the second round is pretty decent for a NHL caliber player. That said, I don’t know if the NHL has had any notorious draft busts like the NFL and NBA have seen.
Is this redraft predicated on the idea that we know how the players will perform, but don't know about the Lindros trade? Because Quebec 100% drafts Lindros every time knowing the haul they will get from Philly later on.
They literally get Forsberg and a bunch of other stuff, so why would they draft Forsberg knowing they're throwing away everything else they got in that trade?