I'm a custom home builder, and I'm building a home theater for one of my customers currently. but I've been watching and reading Audioholics for years now, it's going to be a incredible 9.2.4 system with a 150in screen in a acoustically treated room, I can't wait to get started on it.
@@lucasrem it is my sincere suggestion that you learn a little bit about room design before offering such poor advice. You couldn't be much farther from an ideal construction if you tried.
Dude, I knew this about the front 3 speakers. Remodeling my basement and watching all these videos of people with them all in the ceiling and was beginning to think I was crazy. Thank you for taking the time to tell people the right way.
Thank you. No builder but I am buying a home built in the 70's and while some remodeling is going on, and walls are open, I wanted to wire it so that my vintage monster receiver, turntable and more modern cd player and amp can be heard throughout the house, rather than limit my listening to one room, as well as a nice surround setup for the television. Not sure yet if I will do in wall ( I think I will for peripheral rooms, i.e., bathrooms, bedrooms) but I don't want to compromise too much on sound. I feel some quality may be lost but not enough to bother me. I knew nothing before watching this. So thank you for the education. In particular the cable guage, 14-4, monoprice. So good to know. I'm planning on using a specialist, I'm sure my architect will know of a good one, but it is nice to understand what they are talking about and what my baseline requirements are before they start running me over with THEIR choices.
I bought a new home from KB back in 2010. They had a home theater package that thankfully wasn't in-ceiling speakers but I wanted to put my TV and speakers on the opposite wall that KB wanted to put them, (they had the system going across the room and I wanted to go lenghtwise). Luckily they allowed me to do what I wanted and even had me work directly with their electrician to set up my 7.2 system exactly how I wanted it. The guy even did a bunch of other stuff for me, (alarm and can lights in upstairs bedrooms), under the table. Worked out great.
Our builder was great. They work through a low voltage company who specializes in audio video installs. We got 4 in ceiling speakers (rear surround and atmos) plus. Rear wall sub LFE for only $300. It was great. Use standard LCRs on the front wall with subs front and back. Keeping everything but the front sound stage in the ceiling was a huge help in the wife acceptance factor!
Well done Gene. During our reno, I didn't give the contractor the option. Before they were hired I told them I was going to pre-wire the Atmos System 7.2.4 in the Games Room and the Home Theater 5.1 set-up in the family room. I also installed a lot of LAN cables when the ceilings and walls were exposed.
The timing of this video is impeccable. My cousin is doing a total renovation of his house and he was driving me crazy about getting a home theatre setup. After like 2 hours of trying to explain to him why he shouldn't cheap out, I eventually gave up and recommended an Atmos sound bar. He's been happy with his modest 2.1 soundbar and I think a updated mid-range model would satisfy him.
Soundbars just keep getting better and better. I have a 55” Vizio 4K with a matching 5.1 soundbar and it sounds great in my upstairs loft. Very easy plug and play. I also have a 100” Projector with a 5.2.2 ATMOS set up as my main TV in the family room. Thousands of dollars in speakers and equipment. I still have respect for good quality soundbar systems. They can pack a nice punch for minimal cost.
As a builder and an enthusiast I’m all over the place on this issue. First off the reason I don’t let customers use their own installers has nothing to do with wanting to sell a package. There are a number of legit reasons why I don’t allow this. Now, on the flip side I get so sad when I see what gets sold to my customers as “home theater” packages. Horrible speaker placement, poorly thought out wiring locations, and generic quality cabling and components are hard for me to swallow. The only good side is that all my homes have unfinished basements so it can easily be done right later. However, 90% of customers do not care at all. They ask for a home theater because it sounds cool but have no idea what a real home theater is. And if they knew what was involved and the cost they would say no way. These days most just say I’ll get Sonos or a sound bar and be done with it. As long as the tv locations have outlets and coax or hdmi they are happy. My guy can’t even convince them to hard wire for Ethernet and security beyond the basics provided. Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but interesting video.
Oh, I agree with your statement, I do electrical in homes , and you are so right most home owners could care less about good sound in their homes , just as long as it works and they do not become overwhelmed with the tech!!
This video is spot on! I wish I had watched this video back in spring. My husband and his boy friend hired a local builder to instal an 11 channel system in our living room and not only did they install the entire front stage in the ceiling but they worked completely nude through the entire project and they had my husband in tears on the last day.
I’ve always had to make due with my home theater’s room due to budget constraints but recently purchased my first home. It’s a slow process but having prior knowledge due to this community and my own experiences was a huge help in finding an installer who understood and was capable of what I wanted. The first two companies I went to were hell bent on selling me an entire in ceiling system, my response always was “How is this going to work spatially with object based audio like Atmos,” and I kid you not one of them told me my “Room EQ system” would calibrate it properly. Apparently EQ-X is exponentially more powerful than any of us knew!!!
Hi Gene, I have so many nightmare story scenarios to tell. So many that we just don’t have enough time to tell them all. Basically, I started working for an appliance/audio retailer in 1994. They had just started installing home theater systems and commercial systems but, they didn’t know their ass from their elbows about how to do it!! I also was new to it but I had building construction, electronic repair, and HiFi knowledge. I quickly educated myself through library books and sent myself to CEDIA for certification. The new home building and commercial building frenzy was just starting. They had about 20 to 30 Salesman selling and designing room configurations and 95% of them didn’t know what they were doing!! Needless to say, I spent the next 17 years, in agony, having to deal with residential and commercial customers about why I had to change the installation, because they needed more or less audio/video equipment, different cables or speaker wire, or a different layout! And, at the end of the installation, I had to instruct them on how to use everything!! Some of the systems got very complex or equipment that was bad, out of the box, and at that time the industry technology was rapidly changing. Now, it’s so different, there’s access to so much information and fantastic, professional, and informative people LIKE YOU!! Thanks for all your hard work and devotion to the A/V industry. Keep up the good work!!
In our family room we have a simple 5.1 system using five 8" three way Jamo ceiling speakers and for the sub a 12" Klipsch. Our audio system is a combination of newish and vintage. One Yamaha RXA 2030 receiver and three vintage Panasonic Ramsa WP-9210 amplifiers that came straight out of the Los Angeles Sports Arena (before it was demolished) are in another room and the sub is tucked away from sight. We (I mean my wife) prefer seeing only our 65" TV and none of the other gear. This setup works for us 🙂.
My house was pre wired with all ceiling speakers. So I just went with it. I have a Sonance (I think I spelled that right) 5.1 box set plugged into $500 Yamaha AV receiver. The flush mounted round ceiling speakers pivot inside the speaker cup. The speakers are aimed directly at the audience sitting on the couch. The T.V. is hanging on the wall with all cables hidden in the wall. Very clean setup. I think, for a smaller size living room like mine, this setup works for basic 5.1. Although the Yamaha receiver isn’t top of the line, it delivers. No Atmos, but still sounds great for 5.1.
I installed the klipsch heritage bar in my livingroom 5.1.2 system. It sounds great and in my opinion looks better than 3 separate speakers surrounding the TV.
Soundbars keep getting better and better. My wife prefers them over my 2000W ATMOS setup. I have a decent 5.1 soundbar setup in a upstairs loft. I’m pretty happy and impressed by its sound quality.
i did all in ceiling speakers except for center and subwoofer, if its the main HT room, go with 8” for LR 6.5” for surround and a 2nd pair for rear surround in a V configuration. Hands down, one of the besr setups Ive ever done.
I just built a house with a production builder. I lucked out and had a construction superintendent who was totally cool with me going in and running whatever wires I wanted after his low voltage company was done. We paid them to run a lot of wires and conduits, but in the end they didn’t put a lot of things in the correct locations and I had to fix a lot of their mistakes. I have 2 rooms wired for 5.2.4 and a living room with 5.2. I pulled out all of their 18 gauge wire and replaced it with Monoprice 12 gauge and placed all the wires in the perfect speaker locations and kept them away from electrical wires. I ran several Monoprice active fiber optic HDMI cables from tv locations back to a central location for an av rack. I also have 8 zones of distributed audio including the master bath and garage🤘🏻. Have about a million Cat 6 wires run all over the place for a future Control4 system. I also went in and insulted all of the interior walls and some ceilings with Safe N Sound insulation. I definitely learned a lot from watching your videos with Don. Now I’m just looking forward accumulating all of the equipment and getting it all set up!
We are lucky with my new home builder. We were able to work with their AV contractor to come up with the installation location for our four Atmos speakers. We followed Dolby guidelines. One negative was we had go with their speakers - Origin Acoustics Director models. A couple months after close, we had our dealer install Paradigm CI Elite E80-Rs.
Great information for any HT, especially new construction. I built my house back in 2004/5 when 7.1 was the newest thing. The builder then actually gave me the option of 16 or 14 gauge. Easy choice. I had to stay on top of the build to make sure that they put the 2 ceiling surround back wires in the correct spots and the side wall rear channels at the correct height by visiting a few times before the dry wall went up. Turned out great, but as you have voiced in the recent past, 14/4 instead of the 14/2 that I currently have would have allowed me to add the ATMOS channels that I would like to do without cutting into drywall and more. Preparing for the future is a great idea. You never know what is around the next corner. Thanks.
One thing to remember if you can only do in ceiling because of limitations, most all manufacturers make in ceiling LCR specifically which will add a degree of directionality as opposed to strait down firing. It's not a perfect solution, but sometimes 15-20 degrees can make a significant difference. They often use the same cut-in dimensions so retrofit is also an easy option.
Angled tweeters in ceiling work ok for surrounds but I would not want those for front LCRs. Would be fine if all I wanted was soft music around the house, that’s it
@@chrishewitt5826 my new home they pre wired In ceiling like the video here any pointers on what I can do since it’s already been done having a hard time figuring out what I should put?
@@KurtCam same here. I hate how the speakers sound and they put the rears above where the couch sits instead of a little further back. Not sure what to do to fix the sound from the front LCRs. Due to room orientation don’t have a choice where I am able to have the couch. :(
I bought a spec house so all speakers were pre wired in the ceiling…living room, master bedroom, downstairs rec room and junior master. Thanks for the suggestions for repurpose them for atmos.
You forgot about angled in-ceiling for LCR if you have a fireplace below your TV and windows on both sides, so no chance for in-wall. B&W, Focal, DefTech, and Golden Ear make expensive but good speakers for this situation
Gene you’re right on. My builder is making me work with an “AV” company which I’m not confident in after multiple conversations with them. Finally, after much debate they are going to let me go into the basement before drywall to show them where CL2 rated wire will need to go for my 5.2.4 system. I will use a different, more experienced AV company to get my in wall paradigms and other components.
In my country probably 80% of home theaters have all speakers mounted in the ceiling, mostly because these systems are mounted in the living room and pepole don't want tower or bookshelf speakers to not disturb the decoration, and in our houses drywalls are not very common, houses are made entirely with bricks, so most of the time is not possible to mount in-wall speakers
I have sold and installed many systems in 26 yrs. Many times you have to put your 3 LCR spkrs. on the front or put nothing at all. Some manufacturers like TRIAD make really good lcr spkrs made for this and they are angled to “point at the listener”. Some work very well and create an excellent image in the front. I can send you pictures if you want so you can see that in some cases it had to be done this way or no way at all! And sometimes it is just an aesthetic choice and angled LCR’s , in ceiling, work just fine. Is it what i would do for myself? Only in certain situations, but not if i can get nice towers! And if an LCR Speakerbar, passive, is possible it may be a better choice.
When I built my first house in 2002 I had to pay for the pre-wiring, but got permission from the builder to go in after framing to replace the 18 gauge with 14 gauge. I put speaker rough-in's where I wanted them and the drywall guys opened them up for me. I also paid to have all the internal walls filled with insulation. So my experience was very good other than wasting $250 for the garbage wire. In my current house they had the LCR in the ceiling when I bought the house, but I had them removed when I remodeled the place. I then built them into the wall of the living room. As part of the remodel I created a dedicated room for a home theater (23x16x10) which will have a 7.2.4 PSB sound system. LCR uses Silver Sonic cables, but everything else uses 14-2 CL2 rated wires.
Knowledge is power. This is all common sense stuff to most of us now, but as recent as a couple years ago, I was ignorant to things like this. Places like AVS Forum and fantastic feeds like Audioholics are changing the world!!! Thanks, Gene.
Thank you for educating me a lot about home builders. Education is far too important for me as I don't want a builder to install LCR speakers in the ceiling but I can only see ceiling speakers being used for whole-house music listening and that's about it. I mean, I'm not talking about critical music listening. That's what a dedicated music listening system is for even though I would rather combine music listening and movie theater into a single room. And yeah for me, I prefer a movie theater being the heart of the entire house because I crave going to the AMC Theatres and even experience Dolby Cinema. I really want to bring that AMC Theatres experience in my own dream home in the future. And honestly, I do not mind building my own home theater without needing to hire a builder in order to save some labor cost and I do not mind gaining some experience being a home theater builder. But of course, being an IT technician is my main goal and I do not want to change my career just so I can be an experienced home theater builder. Of course, I'm going to need to hire an electrician to install a 20 amp circuit breaker and do the proper wiring. I don't want to go cheap, but I do not want to break my bank doing this. :) Education is all that matters to me.
I solved the issue of no prewire for sound by using a SONOS Amp, Sonos in wall (or ceiling) speakers, a Sonos Arc soundbar and some of the new 300 series speakers for the rear audio. I also set up the bedrooms in a similar fashion, making them separate zones. Wireless audio has really advanced in the last 12 months and with the wide availability of Wi-Fi 6E technology. You also no longer need a cable connection in most rooms. Xfinity has a 4" x4" box that provides tv over IP and then all you need is aa single cable connection for the cable companies' router in the media closet. You might need to add a wireless access point or a SONOS connect signal booster (If you're not doing wi-fi) for larger properties. but needing to have ethernet jacks in everyt room and the attendant wiring is far less necessary than years ago.
The only thing I had a builder do for my home theater was to provide two 20A power lines to the room. I’m a retired audio-video engineer, and I’ve run all the A/V cabling myself, and although it’s a lot of work, at least I had minimal issues with other people on the project.
Hi Gene, I work for an electrical contractor that also does some home theater work. I think you are coming off a bit over critical here without too much background context on these examples. We use 16awg Honeywell Genesis wire and typically our runs are no longer than 40ft. We also typically put the 3 fronts in the ceiling for aesthetics. Believe it or not, MOST customers don't want to see the speakers at all and having them in the ceiling, while I will agree isn't the best practice, is much better than in the wall when it comes to aesthetics. We also use a Klipsch/Jamo speaker that holds the mid and tweeter in a 45* bar to help to project sound into the room. When I do meet with someone that I can sense is not afraid to see a speaker, yes, my first option is 4 corners in the ceiling plus a center channel speaker on a TV stand, that idea can also evolve further into a passive soundbar or into towers. To bash the builders for doing in ceiling is a bit harsh without knowing the conversations they first had with customers and or investors. Your first few pics are likely of spec or model homes, where there is a budget and that is why you see such a small TV or no pre-wiring or, the wiring could be hidden behind the drywall. We are always at the mercy of the buyer or builders budget and their designers. I do my best to share my opinion, and help make good decisions that fit within their budget and design parameters but not many customers walk in handing over their wallet and say "do what you would do if it were your home" Though those homes are by far the most fun!
Hi, I’ve been into home theatre since stereo vhs and a 18inch tv. Most people don’t know anything about home theatre setup, and speaker placement, which makes a difference where tge sound is coming from to do with what’s happening on the screen. I had a fellow tell me I need to sell my floor and wall mounted speakers, and get wireless speakers and put them on speaker stands. He knew nothing about what a home theatre involves, so I didn’t worry trying to explain, as in his mind his way was right. Which made me wonder if he had a hearing problem. Some people are just ignorant. If it was me, I wouldn’t do the job, because your name is on the paperwork. A friend comes over, sees the speakers in the front are in the ceiling, knows it not right, and asks, who did the work, your name is mentioned and you have just got a bad name, because the owner never says, they told the builder that’s how they wanted it, and that’s nine out of ten people never say it was what they wanted.
Ty Gene for another awesome video! Built a home in 2017 and had the builders AV crew pre-wire several locations with ear level LCRs (7.2.4 living room, 5.1 master bed/bath and outdoor stereo zone) to an AV closet similar to your home. Just before we moved in the AV crew cut all speaker wire in the media closet and left me with only 3' coming out of the wall. Had to butt splice everything to extend to the av rack. #fail
They do make forward firing ceiling LCR speakers.. Definitely not ideal, but sometimes an alternative when form outweighs function.. If your sister’s speakers are the typical downward firing ceiling speakers switching them out would make a pretty significant difference.
I built the house got talked into pre-wiring. I’m looking at hole plugs in the 10’ceiling. Built in audio closet so car smart can get help looking different color wires. I know the blue and the yellow are cats wires. So lost I search audio pre-wire home system glad to run into you’re your channel subscribed, Will be watching to learn. Now They’re trying to sell me wireless WTH.. I’ll keep on searching for pre-wire, smart home theater system if you can suggest
This is very helpful, I wish you would talk about running wires though pipe or conduits, versus stapling them to the beams, like some cable companies tend to do. Also, I'd like you to address the sound dampening solutions that used for your home, and having the media room as far away from the hvac as possible.
I had a family member get a 5 speaker surround sound speakers preinstalled in their home. Speakers were installed with a 30 to 40 inch TV in mind. He installed a 70”+ Samsung and the speakers were not centered correctly for such a large TV. I helped him out by adjusting room correction settings on his amp. It actually sounded pretty good. Us audio guys would definitely want the speakers in correct locations.
Thanks for all of the helpful information! I am retroftting a 7.2 system into our exisitny living room. One area I don't see addressed is having a dedicated power circuit with lots of high quality outlets. I was able to switch out a living room outlet circuit and create a dedicated line because we had used conduit. I used the existing conduit and upgraded the circuit to 20 amps with nothing but AV components using the new circuit. Additionally, I also needed to swap out the original outtlets for better quality and still put some componets that don't draw much power into a secong shared circuit with other living room outlets. You can never have too many wall outlets.
I used to do computer work, and also love AV systems, so a customer had me help him with his AV in his living room. They too had the 5 speakers in the ceiling, including LCR, and then a sub. It sounded pretty bad and was very hard to hear dialog. They didn't want speakers everywhere and mainly just wanted improved dialog on TV/Movies. So we just got a nice center speaker and put it right above their TV. Still not optimal LCR, but sounded much more acceptable with the ceiling speakers and a center. In movies/TV, the LR channels are mostly for effects, so it works for some situations.
Custom installs are the way to do it, if you pick the right installer, many as shown clearly don't understand how it should be done. All of this is great if you own your own house, but if you are renting, then other options are required. I have been renting for the last eight years, and you need a good package that you can install without damaging the decoration, or you will face a lot of expense returning the room to it original decor. Although i prefer a package of seperate speakers, the better sound bars with a sub can provide a convincing soundstage.
Great video Gene. My house is getting built now. I have essentially told my builder and interior designer to step aside and let my integrator arrange the speakers/av equipment. The interior designers are particularly bad as they have no understanding of acoustics.
5 speakers pre wired into the ceiling and one floor subwoofer. I'm using the two back channels as surround and the woofer. The other front three are empty but I will use them as height speakers one day. I should have done duel subs wiring but I didn't know and I didn't have a surround system at the time. I also wish I would have had them add four more ceiling rear and side. I'll have to do that myself now. Currently have two towers, a center and two pb4000 subs and two rear surround.
With my house it was built a long time ago and i’m not good at running wires, at least not neatly. So i hired a local installer to just run wires through the walls simple enough right, wrong although they did a neat job when i pulled the wall plates off they used 18ga wire. Also at that time i had an old pair of Klipsch RB-75’s for my side surrounds he almost blew the woofers out in them i actually had to tell him they were about to blow. I’m not sure why i let him calibrate my system in the first place b/c i have an anthem receiver so it does a really good job calibrating. So i used the wires he ran and taped 10ga wires for all seven of the floor speakers and what are your thoughts one running that large of a gage interesting note when i ran the wires for my atmos speakers all i had at the time was 16ga wires so i used those. Well when my 12ga wire came in i re-ran all the new wires for the atmos speakers. When i ran the ARC my settings for the atmos speakers went down by 4db, i knew there would be a difference but not 4db so i was shocked. I’m using a Rotel 1075 for those atmos speakers and not only did the settings drop but the atmos speakers came alive. Now that i’ve learned a lot more i would do it myself next time. For me i like hidden wires but i like it even more to look at those fat wires on the floor for
Nowadays many ceiling speakers come with tilt mechanisms that allow you to angle either a tweeter or woofer or both 15° or more degrees. Depending how far you are sitting from the TV the ceiling speakers can work just fine.
How about front 3 speakers in ceiling, where these ceiling speakers they are pointing at an angle down to the couch/listeners. I have 10' high ceilings.
What if you have your TV above a wood fireplace? Thinking using swivel mounts on small lcrs and aiming them at listening spot? Or having the left and right satellites on the mantle and mounting the center just below on the brick. It won't fit on the mantle without some of it being blocked by the tv. Speakers are Definitive Technology procenter cs1000 and the promonitors 1000.
If the TV is a little high relative to ear level because of room design constraints (only workable spot is over a fireplace), would you put LCR in line with the TV, or as close to ear level as possible but maybe lower than the TV?
Floor speakers are the best for surround in my opinion . From installing many surround sounds from bose cube and invisible , in wall systems to thx certified systems .
Great educational video. My current house has 4 celling speakers. I am planning to get a passive LCR speaker to add to the system. At the end of your video you mentioned either using the current ceiling speakers for "high channel" vs. replacing them for Atmos. Are you able to expand on this a bit more. Advantage of doing one option vs. the other option. My original plan was use the 4 in celling speakers as my surround speakers.
Yeah, i was happy my new home had wired in ceilings mostly for the wiring work being done. I used the fronts as Atmos speakers and filled in the center up there. No way was i going to force that.
On first 2 pictures where you sad there’s no wiring it’s not definitely a case 1. There could be 3 wires for passive LCR behind TV 2. There could be a conduit going from future AVR location in that cabinet to behind TV and you can easily fish whatever cables you want There’s also lots of applications our clients don’t want to see any speakers or soundbars on the TV wall . Sometimes it’s Frame TV , sometimes just design. Then you have no other choice but in ceiling speakers , but you just have to do the right pick and go with angled speakers like Motion XTC8 . They sound absolutely amazing with right amplification . So even if you builder prewired everything for in ceiling , it’s fixable . You absolutely right about them running 18/2 or just prewire 5.1 and to expand you need to open drywall again . Main mistakes when builders use electricians or when home owners use alarm companies to do whole package for them . That’s when you come and see lots of wiring missing , or multiple locations that make no sense Good channel !
Well, we finished our basement, recently, and we put enough speakers for about a 7 or 9 .2.7 system. I used klipsch rf-7 iii, and the rc-64 iii, with Klipsch in ceiling for the Atmos… which I like a lot, though I want to buy a Denon or Marrantz avr, but I am waiting for Denon to release a second gen 13.2 or 15.2 receiver… with support for 48 gbps, in fhe future.
Hi Gene Another great video thx! I saw your backlite tv in this video. Can you tell me what brand/ model your purchased as most of what I looked at were not to my liking. Hopefully you know a good one that connects to the tv via usb.thx again
Unfortunately, sometimes you don’t have a choice but to do the LCR in ceiling but i hate it when we are told to do all in ceiling when we are building a theater or a dedicated media room because they aren’t as good as other options. I don’t touch anything that wasn’t wired by my company without informing the client that i might have to move/re run wire possibly causing drywall repair, I install ELAN and RTI and run 3 cat and 1 coax 1 cat for video 1 for networking and the other are for spare or other control. I will advise against anything that can harm the quality of the system but at the end of the day if they’re dead set on their idea of the system get it in writing that it is not recommended and that the customer wanted it and thats the end of it. Look at the ES-HT700-ICLCR-5 from episode it’s designed to direct the sound towards the listener we have installed in ceiling speakers designed to direct the sound a couple times and they are decent.
So happy you brought up passive soundbars, there isn’t a ton of information on them that I’ve found. One that I was hoping you had some experience with is the Martin Logan slm X3?
Buddy of mine has just had a very nice home built in a gated community. His family room has a 5.1 built in package. The family room has high ceilings, at least 20ft and the front in wall speakers have been fitted right at the top of the wall close to the ceiling. It looks ridiculous, not heard it though
Hi Gene. We've been in our new construction house for about 3 months. The builder did have their own audio/video company already lined up. We went to the appointment and they tried to convince me to have my lcr installed in the ceiling but the thought of it felt weird so I passed on that, plus I already had my JBL 590s/520, so I opted to just have them run wiring so I could eventually install surrounds in the ceiling. The cool part is they installed a media panel along the main living room wall that has cat6 and all connections for the surrounds and speakers on the lanai. It's not a perfect setup but having small kids makes it ideal.
@@HTadd1ct Yeah I agree but having five kids, which includes a 6 and 1 yo makes a cleaner living room much more practical, though I'm aware my sound will suffer.
Thanks for posting!! Builders and Architects always get in the way of AV, Home automation designs for the customers who are buying new homes. Another one is security automation companies offering home theater services. Hire professionals and do your research!
Awesome video so super helpful. What do you make of in wall control panels such as the streamline e100? Thinking of adding something like this as a dedicated controller as a nice touch for guests. Or would you just use the native apps and an iPad. For context I currently have a Lyngdorf amp and linn speakers but want to add additional rooms.
When I was working at RadioShack long ago, on a side job I helped a family with placement of some reasonably priced speakers. What they would have done otherwise was horrible. They didn't buy anything very good, but it was an RCA theater in a box before that. So still an upgrade!
Can you put rear surround speakers behind you in ceiling? (Proper sonos ceiling speakers) We don't have the space to put couch in the middle of the room and we have large windows behind and to the rear left of the room
I'm a custom integrator (23 years) and there's only 1 instance where in-ceiling LCR fine (with the exception of where budget or construction dictates it is a must): Above fireplace TVs. People are naturally looking up and the sound being close to the display in this way really isn't a big deal when compared to, say, the speakers being several feet below the display in traditional positions, which can give a weird disconnect between eyes and ears. Typically, soundbars, side monosummed center speakers offered by Artisan, James Loudspeaker, Phase Technology etc are going to be ideal, of course.... but budgetary concerns or aesthetic needs (Samsung Frame) can make people go in ceiling LCR in a hurry.
Most home designers are concerned more about aesthetics than functionality. My main living area has a built-in entertainment cabinet with a 65-in TV on top but it’s shoved into the right corner of the room with the fireplace being front and center. At least the TVs not above the FP. I had more control in my dedicated home theater in the basement so I really don’t care about casual TV viewing.
Ran into the same issue over here. More thought and a little bit more elbow grease can make a huge difference. I'm currently running a corner room 7.1.2 setup with floating shelves which I've done myself in the basement (which isn't ideal but still works), but because there was a lack of a dedicated space, and also sharing a basement with a massive billiard table and home gym limited the design capabilities. Dedicated is essentially the way to go in this case.
The basement theater when I built the home builder let me work directly with the LV contractor. This was in early 2015 and I knew Dolby Atmos was just starting to become a thing so I opted to prewire for 7.2.4. Had to break up the basement from a large open area since my wife wanted a spare bedroom and I also wanted a chill out area for the kids with their video games. The theater is 15x17x8. So the big question was where to put the equipment. I didn’t have the ability to have a closet off the room and I didn’t want it all the way in the equipment room across the hall since I also planned to use the system with physical media and wanted easy access and not be running between rooms to change media. I ended up having two flanking tall cabinets on the sides of the screen wall (the 15-ft wall) so I could easily fit a 120-in screen between them. In one cabinet I have a MidAtlantic SRSR pull-out pivot rack on the top half. The lower half I use for miscellaneous storage such as LPs and cassettes. The cabinet on the opposite side is has doors on the top for more storage that I use to store my non-standardized packaging movie box sets. I have 3-drawers below that store more of my 4K Blus and standard Blus in typical sized cases. I also have 3 other free standing cabinets with my remaining 4Ks and Blus (yeah I got a problem). Big thing to remember when pre-wiring is to add a tube to pull a new video cable. In the last several years I have gone from a 10.2Gbps Active cable to 18Gbps Active to a 48Gbps AOC to support my new JVC RS3100 projector. Not any huge regrets but I may kind of wished my ceiling pairs (front height and rear height) were a little farther apart. Currently the front height are about 2.5-3 feet forward of the MLP in-line with LRs and the rear height are about 2.5 feet behind the MLP again in-line with the MLP. I was limited with positioning due to other things running in the ceiling. Well at least I have an excuse to make my current front heights my mid heights and and add a pair of SVS Prime Elevations as my front heights 😆.
Hi, I've already wired and mounted two outdoor speakers and I'd like to build an entertainment system (5 speaker & 1 sub) in my basement that I'm in the process of finishing. I'm leaning towards a 7.1 multi zone a/v receiver with in wall speakers. Do you have any recommendations? I'm a novice and would appreciate any advice. TIA and keep up the great content!
Hello, Loved the picture with the white speakers. How do people hide the wires in a setup like that? In particular,the surround speaker wires. Or, are those wireless speakers? If they are wireless, what are the best out now that could reduce sound loss.
Make sure you know the wire gauge. I had conduits run to multiple points in the room to allow for projectors as well as a large screen TV, wired 3 Cat 6 cables to each spot, and pre-wired for 7.2.2 - and was dismayed to find 16 gauge wire and the cheap spring connectors.
Placing the center channel speaker at the same level as your properly placed mains is not possible unless you put it behind the screen. In most applications, for most TVs, that's not going to work. The best you can do is center it horizontally either above or below the screen and angle it up or down to bring the tweeter's beam in line with your ears at viewing distance. I find the center speaker is less visually obtrusive below the screen angled upward, but placing it above angled downward often winds up being more practical. Individual mileage will vary.
If my current AVR only supports 2 height Atmos speakers eg 7.2.2 max, can I wire and install 4 x Atmos Speakers, splittihg each Atmos AVR output and then direct to each Atmos height speaker, enabling firing down towards sitting position (ie 30 to 60 degrees in front and 30 to 60 degrees behind the seat row position). Thiz would allow uz to then upgrade later to a AVR that supports 7.2.4. Will this cable Y-splitting idea work in the short to medium term? Thanks Chris
The problem to use bookshelf sound is having big boxes bellow the tv, I prefere cleaner ambient with ceiling sound, nowadays there is some good ceiling sound that are projected 45d to the couch, not perfect, but makes the deal and my wife doesn’t complain hahahah
We just moved into a house that was built in 2001. It has 5 speakers in the living room ceiling, plus a large sub on the floor in the back corner. Two other rooms have two speakers each with an individual volume control. I assume this had dual purpose, HT in the living room or music throughout. Could you point me in the right direction to help figure out if this system is useful? What might I need to set those 5 living room speakers for atmos? Thanks.
What do you think about unobtrusive options for surround speakers? I know ideally they'd be at around ear level but WAF means they can't go on stands and the couch doesn't have a wall near the left side. Am I better off going in the ceiling or too far behind?
I'll be dealing with this in 2024 but will do it all myself, just so I get it right. Fortunately, it will be in a bonus room above the garage that will be unfinished just for this reason... speakers should all be ear height except Atmos and sub. I'm running 7.1.4 and my wife hates the Paradigm towers. I use my system as pure direct 2-channel listening so the entire system is calibrated to the MLP... fortunately, my wife doesn't care about that at all since she's just laying down while watching. Thanks!
Hi, My builder has put all my speakers in the home theatre room in the ceiling, 3 at the front and 2 at the back. How can I repurpose the front ones as Atmos speakers? I was meant to get Jamo speakers but ended up with Yamaha NS-IC600 instead. These are only 2 way but have a directional tweeter.
What would you recommend for ceiling atmos speakers? Should I be looking for wide dispersion? The speakers will be installed at 30 degrees in front and behind the MLP. It's a fairly low ceiling, about 8 feet. Any info or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Even some active sound bars are pretty decent sounding. I have a true Anthem/Paradigm 5.3.2 atmos system in my media/family room and a atmos 5.1.4 sound bar in the living room. Yes the separate system sounds better but the sound bar sounds pretty good for what it is. I auditioned a few sound bars at home until I found the right one though
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a custom home builder, and I'm building a home theater for one of my customers currently. but I've been watching and reading Audioholics for years now, it's going to be a incredible 9.2.4 system with a 150in screen in a acoustically treated room, I can't wait to get started on it.
Do you build for a fee? Do you build spec homes at all?
@@ajsdfk I do custom design home on a fee bases.
150 inch screen....holy shit, that's hard to even imagine compared to my current 43" tv lol
Build solid brick wall, use only wood for decoration and finishing, reflection of the sound waves!
@@lucasrem it is my sincere suggestion that you learn a little bit about room design before offering such poor advice. You couldn't be much farther from an ideal construction if you tried.
Dude, I knew this about the front 3 speakers. Remodeling my basement and watching all these videos of people with them all in the ceiling and was beginning to think I was crazy. Thank you for taking the time to tell people the right way.
Thank you. No builder but I am buying a home built in the 70's and while some remodeling is going on, and walls are open, I wanted to wire it so that my vintage monster receiver, turntable and more modern cd player and amp can be heard throughout the house, rather than limit my listening to one room, as well as a nice surround setup for the television. Not sure yet if I will do in wall ( I think I will for peripheral rooms, i.e., bathrooms, bedrooms) but I don't want to compromise too much on sound. I feel some quality may be lost but not enough to bother me. I knew nothing before watching this. So thank you for the education. In particular the cable guage, 14-4, monoprice. So good to know. I'm planning on using a specialist, I'm sure my architect will know of a good one, but it is nice to understand what they are talking about and what my baseline requirements are before they start running me over with THEIR choices.
I bought a new home from KB back in 2010. They had a home theater package that thankfully wasn't in-ceiling speakers but I wanted to put my TV and speakers on the opposite wall that KB wanted to put them, (they had the system going across the room and I wanted to go lenghtwise). Luckily they allowed me to do what I wanted and even had me work directly with their electrician to set up my 7.2 system exactly how I wanted it. The guy even did a bunch of other stuff for me, (alarm and can lights in upstairs bedrooms), under the table. Worked out great.
Our builder was great. They work through a low voltage company who specializes in audio video installs. We got 4 in ceiling speakers (rear surround and atmos) plus. Rear wall sub LFE for only $300. It was great. Use standard LCRs on the front wall with subs front and back. Keeping everything but the front sound stage in the ceiling was a huge help in the wife acceptance factor!
Well done Gene. During our reno, I didn't give the contractor the option. Before they were hired I told them I was going to pre-wire the Atmos System 7.2.4 in the Games Room and the Home Theater 5.1 set-up in the family room. I also installed a lot of LAN cables when the ceilings and walls were exposed.
That's what I'm talking about! If they won't let me pre-wire myself, and could and would stop me: I'll build my own house if I have too 🤣
The timing of this video is impeccable. My cousin is doing a total renovation of his house and he was driving me crazy about getting a home theatre setup. After like 2 hours of trying to explain to him why he shouldn't cheap out, I eventually gave up and recommended an Atmos sound bar. He's been happy with his modest 2.1 soundbar and I think a updated mid-range model would satisfy him.
Soundbars just keep getting better and better. I have a 55” Vizio 4K with a matching 5.1 soundbar and it sounds great in my upstairs loft. Very easy plug and play. I also have a 100” Projector with a 5.2.2 ATMOS set up as my main TV in the family room. Thousands of dollars in speakers and equipment. I still have respect for good quality soundbar systems. They can pack a nice punch for minimal cost.
most people don't care that much about good quality sound, it's just about the price and easy to use, and that's it.
As a builder and an enthusiast I’m all over the place on this issue. First off the reason I don’t let customers use their own installers has nothing to do with wanting to sell a package. There are a number of legit reasons why I don’t allow this. Now, on the flip side I get so sad when I see what gets sold to my customers as “home theater” packages. Horrible speaker placement, poorly thought out wiring locations, and generic quality cabling and components are hard for me to swallow. The only good side is that all my homes have unfinished basements so it can easily be done right later. However, 90% of customers do not care at all. They ask for a home theater because it sounds cool but have no idea what a real home theater is. And if they knew what was involved and the cost they would say no way. These days most just say I’ll get Sonos or a sound bar and be done with it. As long as the tv locations have outlets and coax or hdmi they are happy. My guy can’t even convince them to hard wire for Ethernet and security beyond the basics provided. Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but interesting video.
Oh, I agree with your statement, I do electrical in homes , and you are so right most home owners could care less about good sound in their homes , just as long as it works and they do not become overwhelmed with the tech!!
This video is spot on! I wish I had watched this video back in spring. My husband and his boy friend hired a local builder to instal an 11 channel system in our living room and not only did they install the entire front stage in the ceiling but they worked completely nude through the entire project and they had my husband in tears on the last day.
5:47 yikes! that TV seems really high. That's a big peeve that I have.
I’ve always had to make due with my home theater’s room due to budget constraints but recently purchased my first home. It’s a slow process but having prior knowledge due to this community and my own experiences was a huge help in finding an installer who understood and was capable of what I wanted. The first two companies I went to were hell bent on selling me an entire in ceiling system, my response always was “How is this going to work spatially with object based audio like Atmos,” and I kid you not one of them told me my “Room EQ system” would calibrate it properly. Apparently EQ-X is exponentially more powerful than any of us knew!!!
Hi Gene, I have so many nightmare story scenarios to tell. So many that we just don’t have enough time to tell them all. Basically, I started working for an appliance/audio retailer in 1994. They had just started installing home theater systems and commercial systems but, they didn’t know their ass from their elbows about how to do it!! I also was new to it but I had building construction, electronic repair, and HiFi knowledge. I quickly educated myself through library books and sent myself to CEDIA for certification. The new home building and commercial building frenzy was just starting. They had about 20 to 30 Salesman selling and designing room configurations and 95% of them didn’t know what they were doing!! Needless to say, I spent the next 17 years, in agony, having to deal with residential and commercial customers about why I had to change the installation, because they needed more or less audio/video equipment, different cables or speaker wire, or a different layout! And, at the end of the installation, I had to instruct them on how to use everything!! Some of the systems got very complex or equipment that was bad, out of the box, and at that time the industry technology was rapidly changing. Now, it’s so different, there’s access to so much information and fantastic, professional, and informative people LIKE YOU!! Thanks for all your hard work and devotion to the A/V industry. Keep up the good work!!
In our family room we have a simple 5.1 system using five 8" three way Jamo ceiling speakers and for the sub a 12" Klipsch. Our audio system is a combination of newish and vintage. One Yamaha RXA 2030 receiver and three vintage Panasonic Ramsa WP-9210 amplifiers that came straight out of the Los Angeles Sports Arena (before it was demolished) are in another room and the sub is tucked away from sight. We (I mean my wife) prefer seeing only our 65" TV and none of the other gear. This setup works for us 🙂.
My house was pre wired with all ceiling speakers. So I just went with it. I have a Sonance (I think I spelled that right) 5.1 box set plugged into $500 Yamaha AV receiver. The flush mounted round ceiling speakers pivot inside the speaker cup. The speakers are aimed directly at the audience sitting on the couch. The T.V. is hanging on the wall with all cables hidden in the wall. Very clean setup. I think, for a smaller size living room like mine, this setup works for basic 5.1. Although the Yamaha receiver isn’t top of the line, it delivers. No Atmos, but still sounds great for 5.1.
I installed the klipsch heritage bar in my livingroom 5.1.2 system. It sounds great and in my opinion looks better than 3 separate speakers surrounding the TV.
Soundbars keep getting better and better. My wife prefers them over my 2000W ATMOS setup. I have a decent 5.1 soundbar setup in a upstairs loft. I’m pretty happy and impressed by its sound quality.
I love in-ceiling speakers. I just lie on the floor and stare upwards. Of course the TV is on the ceiling as well, but hey, the sacrifice is worth it.
Lol
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
i did all in ceiling speakers except for center and subwoofer, if its the main HT room, go with 8” for LR 6.5” for surround and a 2nd pair for rear surround in a V configuration. Hands down, one of the besr setups Ive ever done.
If you have to install ceiling speakers, the Focal 300 is the way to go. Recently switched and love them.
I just built a house with a production builder. I lucked out and had a construction superintendent who was totally cool with me going in and running whatever wires I wanted after his low voltage company was done. We paid them to run a lot of wires and conduits, but in the end they didn’t put a lot of things in the correct locations and I had to fix a lot of their mistakes. I have 2 rooms wired for 5.2.4 and a living room with 5.2. I pulled out all of their 18 gauge wire and replaced it with Monoprice 12 gauge and placed all the wires in the perfect speaker locations and kept them away from electrical wires. I ran several Monoprice active fiber optic HDMI cables from tv locations back to a central location for an av rack. I also have 8 zones of distributed audio including the master bath and garage🤘🏻. Have about a million Cat 6 wires run all over the place for a future Control4 system. I also went in and insulted all of the interior walls and some ceilings with Safe N Sound insulation. I definitely learned a lot from watching your videos with Don. Now I’m just looking forward accumulating all of the equipment and getting it all set up!
We are lucky with my new home builder. We were able to work with their AV contractor to come up with the installation location for our four Atmos speakers. We followed Dolby guidelines. One negative was we had go with their speakers - Origin Acoustics Director models. A couple months after close, we had our dealer install Paradigm CI Elite E80-Rs.
Great information for any HT, especially new construction. I built my house back in 2004/5 when 7.1 was the newest thing. The builder then actually gave me the option of 16 or 14 gauge. Easy choice. I had to stay on top of the build to make sure that they put the 2 ceiling surround back wires in the correct spots and the side wall rear channels at the correct height by visiting a few times before the dry wall went up. Turned out great, but as you have voiced in the recent past, 14/4 instead of the 14/2 that I currently have would have allowed me to add the ATMOS channels that I would like to do without cutting into drywall and more. Preparing for the future is a great idea. You never know what is around the next corner. Thanks.
Listen to this man. He knows his stuff. I always recommend 14 gage but didn't ever think of thw 14 4 for redundancy. Good tip.
One thing to remember if you can only do in ceiling because of limitations, most all manufacturers make in ceiling LCR specifically which will add a degree of directionality as opposed to strait down firing. It's not a perfect solution, but sometimes 15-20 degrees can make a significant difference. They often use the same cut-in dimensions so retrofit is also an easy option.
Good point but a passive LCR soundbar is still the better choice and 100% doable in most cases.
Angled tweeters in ceiling work ok for surrounds but I would not want those for front LCRs. Would be fine if all I wanted was soft music around the house, that’s it
@@chrishewitt5826 my new home they pre wired In ceiling like the video here any pointers on what I can do since it’s already been done having a hard time figuring out what I should put?
@@KurtCam same here. I hate how the speakers sound and they put the rears above where the couch sits instead of a little further back. Not sure what to do to fix the sound from the front LCRs. Due to room orientation don’t have a choice where I am able to have the couch. :(
I always install my sound bars above the TV. The sound becomes more ambient. And my sub center rite underneath the TV. Sound's awesome 👍😎
I bought a spec house so all speakers were pre wired in the ceiling…living room, master bedroom, downstairs rec room and junior master. Thanks for the suggestions for repurpose them for atmos.
You forgot about angled in-ceiling for LCR if you have a fireplace below your TV and windows on both sides, so no chance for in-wall. B&W, Focal, DefTech, and Golden Ear make expensive but good speakers for this situation
Goldenear HTR7000 are my go to if you have no other choice but the ceiling
Gene you’re right on. My builder is making me work with an “AV” company which I’m not confident in after multiple conversations with them. Finally, after much debate they are going to let me go into the basement before drywall to show them where CL2 rated wire will need to go for my 5.2.4 system. I will use a different, more experienced AV company to get my in wall paradigms and other components.
In my country probably 80% of home theaters have all speakers mounted in the ceiling, mostly because these systems are mounted in the living room and pepole don't want tower or bookshelf speakers to not disturb the decoration, and in our houses drywalls are not very common, houses are made entirely with bricks, so most of the time is not possible to mount in-wall speakers
I have sold and installed many systems in 26 yrs. Many times you have to put your 3 LCR spkrs. on the front or put nothing at all. Some manufacturers like TRIAD make really good lcr spkrs made for this and they are angled to “point at the listener”. Some work very well and create an excellent image in the front. I can send you pictures if you want so you can see that in some cases it had to be done this way or no way at all! And sometimes it is just an aesthetic choice and angled LCR’s , in ceiling, work just fine. Is it what i would do for myself? Only in certain situations, but not if i can get nice towers! And if an LCR Speakerbar, passive, is possible it may be a better choice.
When I built my first house in 2002 I had to pay for the pre-wiring, but got permission from the builder to go in after framing to replace the 18 gauge with 14 gauge. I put speaker rough-in's where I wanted them and the drywall guys opened them up for me. I also paid to have all the internal walls filled with insulation. So my experience was very good other than wasting $250 for the garbage wire. In my current house they had the LCR in the ceiling when I bought the house, but I had them removed when I remodeled the place. I then built them into the wall of the living room. As part of the remodel I created a dedicated room for a home theater (23x16x10) which will have a 7.2.4 PSB sound system. LCR uses Silver Sonic cables, but everything else uses 14-2 CL2 rated wires.
Great information! I’m moving and going to do it in the living room or basement…
Knowledge is power. This is all common sense stuff to most of us now, but as recent as a couple years ago, I was ignorant to things like this. Places like AVS Forum and fantastic feeds like Audioholics are changing the world!!! Thanks, Gene.
Glad I watched this I was going to fit my tv surround sound speakers into the ceiling, thanks for your video 😊
Thank you for educating me a lot about home builders. Education is far too important for me as I don't want a builder to install LCR speakers in the ceiling but I can only see ceiling speakers being used for whole-house music listening and that's about it. I mean, I'm not talking about critical music listening. That's what a dedicated music listening system is for even though I would rather combine music listening and movie theater into a single room. And yeah for me, I prefer a movie theater being the heart of the entire house because I crave going to the AMC Theatres and even experience Dolby Cinema. I really want to bring that AMC Theatres experience in my own dream home in the future.
And honestly, I do not mind building my own home theater without needing to hire a builder in order to save some labor cost and I do not mind gaining some experience being a home theater builder. But of course, being an IT technician is my main goal and I do not want to change my career just so I can be an experienced home theater builder. Of course, I'm going to need to hire an electrician to install a 20 amp circuit breaker and do the proper wiring. I don't want to go cheap, but I do not want to break my bank doing this. :) Education is all that matters to me.
I solved the issue of no prewire for sound by using a SONOS Amp, Sonos in wall (or ceiling) speakers, a Sonos Arc soundbar and some of the new 300 series speakers for the rear audio. I also set up the bedrooms in a similar fashion, making them separate zones. Wireless audio has really advanced in the last 12 months and with the wide availability of Wi-Fi 6E technology. You also no longer need a cable connection in most rooms. Xfinity has a 4" x4" box that provides tv over IP and then all you need is aa single cable connection for the cable companies' router in the media closet. You might need to add a wireless access point or a SONOS connect signal booster (If you're not doing wi-fi) for larger properties. but needing to have ethernet jacks in everyt room and the attendant wiring is far less necessary than years ago.
The only thing I had a builder do for my home theater was to provide two 20A power lines to the room.
I’m a retired audio-video engineer, and I’ve run all the A/V cabling myself, and although it’s a lot of work, at least I had minimal issues with other people on the project.
because I've been following your channel for years. My home audio system is perfect.
Hi Gene, I work for an electrical contractor that also does some home theater work. I think you are coming off a bit over critical here without too much background context on these examples. We use 16awg Honeywell Genesis wire and typically our runs are no longer than 40ft. We also typically put the 3 fronts in the ceiling for aesthetics. Believe it or not, MOST customers don't want to see the speakers at all and having them in the ceiling, while I will agree isn't the best practice, is much better than in the wall when it comes to aesthetics. We also use a Klipsch/Jamo speaker that holds the mid and tweeter in a 45* bar to help to project sound into the room. When I do meet with someone that I can sense is not afraid to see a speaker, yes, my first option is 4 corners in the ceiling plus a center channel speaker on a TV stand, that idea can also evolve further into a passive soundbar or into towers.
To bash the builders for doing in ceiling is a bit harsh without knowing the conversations they first had with customers and or investors. Your first few pics are likely of spec or model homes, where there is a budget and that is why you see such a small TV or no pre-wiring or, the wiring could be hidden behind the drywall. We are always at the mercy of the buyer or builders budget and their designers. I do my best to share my opinion, and help make good decisions that fit within their budget and design parameters but not many customers walk in handing over their wallet and say "do what you would do if it were your home" Though those homes are by far the most fun!
Hi, I’ve been into home theatre since stereo vhs and a 18inch tv. Most people don’t know anything about home theatre setup, and speaker placement, which makes a difference where tge sound is coming from to do with what’s happening on the screen. I had a fellow tell me I need to sell my floor and wall mounted speakers, and get wireless speakers and put them on speaker stands. He knew nothing about what a home theatre involves, so I didn’t worry trying to explain, as in his mind his way was right. Which made me wonder if he had a hearing problem. Some people are just ignorant. If it was me, I wouldn’t do the job, because your name is on the paperwork. A friend comes over, sees the speakers in the front are in the ceiling, knows it not right, and asks, who did the work, your name is mentioned and you have just got a bad name, because the owner never says, they told the builder that’s how they wanted it, and that’s nine out of ten people never say it was what they wanted.
Ty Gene for another awesome video! Built a home in 2017 and had the builders AV crew pre-wire several locations with ear level LCRs (7.2.4 living room, 5.1 master bed/bath and outdoor stereo zone) to an AV closet similar to your home. Just before we moved in the AV crew cut all speaker wire in the media closet and left me with only 3' coming out of the wall. Had to butt splice everything to extend to the av rack. #fail
They do make forward firing ceiling LCR speakers.. Definitely not ideal, but sometimes an alternative when form outweighs function.. If your sister’s speakers are the typical downward firing ceiling speakers switching them out would make a pretty significant difference.
I built the house got talked into pre-wiring. I’m looking at hole plugs in the 10’ceiling. Built in audio closet so car smart can get help looking different color wires. I know the blue and the yellow are cats wires. So lost I search audio pre-wire home system glad to run into you’re your channel subscribed, Will be watching to learn. Now They’re trying to sell me wireless WTH.. I’ll keep on searching for pre-wire, smart home theater system if you can suggest
you can also use in ceiling LCR speakers that are angled and dont fire straight down..
This is very helpful, I wish you would talk about running wires though pipe or conduits, versus stapling them to the beams, like some cable companies tend to do. Also, I'd like you to address the sound dampening solutions that used for your home, and having the media room as far away from the hvac as possible.
Following
I had a family member get a 5 speaker surround sound speakers preinstalled in their home. Speakers were installed with a 30 to 40 inch TV in mind. He installed a 70”+ Samsung and the speakers were not centered correctly for such a large TV. I helped him out by adjusting room correction settings on his amp. It actually sounded pretty good. Us audio guys would definitely want the speakers in correct locations.
Thanks for all of the helpful information! I am retroftting a 7.2 system into our exisitny living room. One area I don't see addressed is having a dedicated power circuit with lots of high quality outlets. I was able to switch out a living room outlet circuit and create a dedicated line because we had used conduit. I used the existing conduit and upgraded the circuit to 20 amps with nothing but AV components using the new circuit. Additionally, I also needed to swap out the original outtlets for better quality and still put some componets that don't draw much power into a secong shared circuit with other living room outlets. You can never have too many wall outlets.
@Audioholics --- 8:31 Why isn't that square centered between the two circles so that it's equal distance from the squares at each end?
I used to do computer work, and also love AV systems, so a customer had me help him with his AV in his living room. They too had the 5 speakers in the ceiling, including LCR, and then a sub. It sounded pretty bad and was very hard to hear dialog. They didn't want speakers everywhere and mainly just wanted improved dialog on TV/Movies. So we just got a nice center speaker and put it right above their TV. Still not optimal LCR, but sounded much more acceptable with the ceiling speakers and a center. In movies/TV, the LR channels are mostly for effects, so it works for some situations.
Hello what you think of the Marantz MM7055 5ch Power Amplifier 140w/ch
Custom installs are the way to do it, if you pick the right installer, many as shown clearly don't
understand how it should be done.
All of this is great if you own your own house, but if you are renting, then other options are required.
I have been renting for the last eight years, and you need a good package that you can install without
damaging the decoration, or you will face a lot of expense returning the room to it original decor.
Although i prefer a package of seperate speakers, the better sound bars with a sub can provide a
convincing soundstage.
Great video Gene. My house is getting built now. I have essentially told my builder and interior designer to step aside and let my integrator arrange the speakers/av equipment. The interior designers are particularly bad as they have no understanding of acoustics.
5 speakers pre wired into the ceiling and one floor subwoofer. I'm using the two back channels as surround and the woofer. The other front three are empty but I will use them as height speakers one day. I should have done duel subs wiring but I didn't know and I didn't have a surround system at the time. I also wish I would have had them add four more ceiling rear and side. I'll have to do that myself now. Currently have two towers, a center and two pb4000 subs and two rear surround.
With my house it was built a long time ago and i’m not good at running wires, at least not neatly. So i hired a local installer to just run wires through the walls simple enough right, wrong although they did a neat job when i pulled the wall plates off they used 18ga wire. Also at that time i had an old pair of Klipsch RB-75’s for my side surrounds he almost blew the woofers out in them i actually had to tell him they were about to blow. I’m not sure why i let him calibrate my system in the first place b/c i have an anthem receiver so it does a really good job calibrating. So i used the wires he ran and taped 10ga wires for all seven of the floor speakers and what are your thoughts one running that large of a gage interesting note when i ran the wires for my atmos speakers all i had at the time was 16ga wires so i used those. Well when my 12ga wire came in i re-ran all the new wires for the atmos speakers. When i ran the ARC my settings for the atmos speakers went down by 4db, i knew there would be a difference but not 4db so i was shocked. I’m using a Rotel 1075 for those atmos speakers and not only did the settings drop but the atmos speakers came alive. Now that i’ve learned a lot more i would do it myself next time. For me i like hidden wires but i like it even more to look at those fat wires on the floor for
Nowadays many ceiling speakers come with tilt mechanisms that allow you to angle either a tweeter or woofer or both 15° or more degrees. Depending how far you are sitting from the TV the ceiling speakers can work just fine.
How about front 3 speakers in ceiling, where these ceiling speakers they are pointing at an angle down to the couch/listeners. I have 10' high ceilings.
What if you have your TV above a wood fireplace? Thinking using swivel mounts on small lcrs and aiming them at listening spot? Or having the left and right satellites on the mantle and mounting the center just below on the brick. It won't fit on the mantle without some of it being blocked by the tv. Speakers are Definitive Technology procenter cs1000 and the promonitors 1000.
If the TV is a little high relative to ear level because of room design constraints (only workable spot is over a fireplace), would you put LCR in line with the TV, or as close to ear level as possible but maybe lower than the TV?
Floor speakers are the best for surround in my opinion . From installing many surround sounds from bose cube and invisible , in wall systems to thx certified systems .
Great educational video. My current house has 4 celling speakers. I am planning to get a passive LCR speaker to add to the system. At the end of your video you mentioned either using the current ceiling speakers for "high channel" vs. replacing them for Atmos. Are you able to expand on this a bit more. Advantage of doing one option vs. the other option. My original plan was use the 4 in celling speakers as my surround speakers.
Yeah, i was happy my new home had wired in ceilings mostly for the wiring work being done. I used the fronts as Atmos speakers and filled in the center up there. No way was i going to force that.
So it’s better to put attach my Kef T305 to the wall, instead of off the wall? I have them on stands now.
On first 2 pictures where you sad there’s no wiring it’s not definitely a case
1. There could be 3 wires for passive LCR behind TV
2. There could be a conduit going from future AVR location in that cabinet to behind TV and you can easily fish whatever cables you want
There’s also lots of applications our clients don’t want to see any speakers or soundbars on the TV wall . Sometimes it’s Frame TV , sometimes just design. Then you have no other choice but in ceiling speakers , but you just have to do the right pick and go with angled speakers like Motion XTC8 . They sound absolutely amazing with right amplification . So even if you builder prewired everything for in ceiling , it’s fixable .
You absolutely right about them running 18/2 or just prewire 5.1 and to expand you need to open drywall again .
Main mistakes when builders use electricians or when home owners use alarm companies to do whole package for them . That’s when you come and see lots of wiring missing , or multiple locations that make no sense
Good channel !
Well, we finished our basement, recently, and we put enough speakers for about a 7 or 9 .2.7 system. I used klipsch rf-7 iii, and the rc-64 iii, with Klipsch in ceiling for the Atmos… which I like a lot, though I want to buy a Denon or Marrantz avr, but I am waiting for Denon to release a second gen 13.2 or 15.2 receiver… with support for 48 gbps, in fhe future.
Hi Gene
Another great video thx!
I saw your backlite tv in this video. Can you tell me what brand/ model your purchased as most of what I looked at were not to my liking. Hopefully you know a good one that connects to the tv via usb.thx again
Unfortunately, sometimes you don’t have a choice but to do the LCR in ceiling but i hate it when we are told to do all in ceiling when we are building a theater or a dedicated media room because they aren’t as good as other options. I don’t touch anything that wasn’t wired by my company without informing the client that i might have to move/re run wire possibly causing drywall repair, I install ELAN and RTI and run 3 cat and 1 coax 1 cat for video 1 for networking and the other are for spare or other control. I will advise against anything that can harm the quality of the system but at the end of the day if they’re dead set on their idea of the system get it in writing that it is not recommended and that the customer wanted it and thats the end of it. Look at the ES-HT700-ICLCR-5 from episode it’s designed to direct the sound towards the listener we have installed in ceiling speakers designed to direct the sound a couple times and they are decent.
So happy you brought up passive soundbars, there isn’t a ton of information on them that I’ve found. One that I was hoping you had some experience with is the Martin Logan slm X3?
Is there any way to use a center channel for just watching TV and also use it when you're watching movies with your surround sound?
Buddy of mine has just had a very nice home built in a gated community. His family room has a 5.1 built in package. The family room has high ceilings, at least 20ft and the front in wall speakers have been fitted right at the top of the wall close to the ceiling. It looks ridiculous, not heard it though
Hi Gene. We've been in our new construction house for about 3 months. The builder did have their own audio/video company already lined up. We went to the appointment and they tried to convince me to have my lcr installed in the ceiling but the thought of it felt weird so I passed on that, plus I already had my JBL 590s/520, so I opted to just have them run wiring so I could eventually install surrounds in the ceiling. The cool part is they installed a media panel along the main living room wall that has cat6 and all connections for the surrounds and speakers on the lanai. It's not a perfect setup but having small kids makes it ideal.
@@HTadd1ct Yeah I agree but having five kids, which includes a 6 and 1 yo makes a cleaner living room much more practical, though I'm aware my sound will suffer.
Thanks for posting!! Builders and Architects always get in the way of AV, Home automation designs for the customers who are buying new homes. Another one is security automation companies offering home theater services. Hire professionals and do your research!
Awesome video so super helpful. What do you make of in wall control panels such as the streamline e100? Thinking of adding something like this as a dedicated controller as a nice touch for guests. Or would you just use the native apps and an iPad. For context I currently have a Lyngdorf amp and linn speakers but want to add additional rooms.
When I was working at RadioShack long ago, on a side job I helped a family with placement of some reasonably priced speakers. What they would have done otherwise was horrible. They didn't buy anything very good, but it was an RCA theater in a box before that. So still an upgrade!
Your audio quality is 👍👍. New mic sounds great! Also, excellent vid/content
Can you put rear surround speakers behind you in ceiling? (Proper sonos ceiling speakers)
We don't have the space to put couch in the middle of the room and we have large windows behind and to the rear left of the room
Some of these builds are inspiring.
I'm a custom integrator (23 years) and there's only 1 instance where in-ceiling LCR fine (with the exception of where budget or construction dictates it is a must): Above fireplace TVs. People are naturally looking up and the sound being close to the display in this way really isn't a big deal when compared to, say, the speakers being several feet below the display in traditional positions, which can give a weird disconnect between eyes and ears.
Typically, soundbars, side monosummed center speakers offered by Artisan, James Loudspeaker, Phase Technology etc are going to be ideal, of course.... but budgetary concerns or aesthetic needs (Samsung Frame) can make people go in ceiling LCR in a hurry.
Most home designers are concerned more about aesthetics than functionality.
My main living area has a built-in entertainment cabinet with a 65-in TV on top but it’s shoved into the right corner of the room with the fireplace being front and center. At least the TVs not above the FP.
I had more control in my dedicated home theater in the basement so I really don’t care about casual TV viewing.
Ran into the same issue over here. More thought and a little bit more elbow grease can make a huge difference. I'm currently running a corner room 7.1.2 setup with floating shelves which I've done myself in the basement (which isn't ideal but still works), but because there was a lack of a dedicated space, and also sharing a basement with a massive billiard table and home gym limited the design capabilities. Dedicated is essentially the way to go in this case.
The basement theater when I built the home builder let me work directly with the LV contractor. This was in early 2015 and I knew Dolby Atmos was just starting to become a thing so I opted to prewire for 7.2.4. Had to break up the basement from a large open area since my wife wanted a spare bedroom and I also wanted a chill out area for the kids with their video games.
The theater is 15x17x8. So the big question was where to put the equipment. I didn’t have the ability to have a closet off the room and I didn’t want it all the way in the equipment room across the hall since I also planned to use the system with physical media and wanted easy access and not be running between rooms to change media. I ended up having two flanking tall cabinets on the sides of the screen wall (the 15-ft wall) so I could easily fit a 120-in screen between them.
In one cabinet I have a MidAtlantic SRSR pull-out pivot rack on the top half. The lower half I use for miscellaneous storage such as LPs and cassettes. The cabinet on the opposite side is has doors on the top for more storage that I use to store my non-standardized packaging movie box sets. I have 3-drawers below that store more of my 4K Blus and standard Blus in typical sized cases. I also have 3 other free standing cabinets with my remaining 4Ks and Blus (yeah I got a problem).
Big thing to remember when pre-wiring is to add a tube to pull a new video cable. In the last several years I have gone from a 10.2Gbps Active cable to 18Gbps Active to a 48Gbps AOC to support my new JVC RS3100 projector.
Not any huge regrets but I may kind of wished my ceiling pairs (front height and rear height) were a little farther apart. Currently the front height are about 2.5-3 feet forward of the MLP in-line with LRs and the rear height are about 2.5 feet behind the MLP again in-line with the MLP. I was limited with positioning due to other things running in the ceiling. Well at least I have an excuse to make my current front heights my mid heights and and add a pair of SVS Prime Elevations as my front heights 😆.
Hi, I've already wired and mounted two outdoor speakers and I'd like to build an entertainment system (5 speaker & 1 sub) in my basement that I'm in the process of finishing. I'm leaning towards a 7.1 multi zone a/v receiver with in wall speakers. Do you have any recommendations? I'm a novice and would appreciate any advice. TIA and keep up the great content!
Hello,
Loved the picture with the white speakers. How do people hide the wires in a setup like that? In particular,the surround speaker wires. Or, are those wireless speakers?
If they are wireless, what are the best out now that could reduce sound loss.
Question Gene: have the speaker wires with batteries evolved to solar panels yet?
Asking for a friend.
You just need the right in-ceiling speakers focal 300 or 1000 in ceiling are amazing expensive but worth it
Make sure you know the wire gauge. I had conduits run to multiple points in the room to allow for projectors as well as a large screen TV, wired 3 Cat 6 cables to each spot, and pre-wired for 7.2.2 - and was dismayed to find 16 gauge wire and the cheap spring connectors.
advantage of using conduit is you should be able to pull new wire
Placing the center channel speaker at the same level as your properly placed mains is not possible unless you put it behind the screen. In most applications, for most TVs, that's not going to work. The best you can do is center it horizontally either above or below the screen and angle it up or down to bring the tweeter's beam in line with your ears at viewing distance. I find the center speaker is less visually obtrusive below the screen angled upward, but placing it above angled downward often winds up being more practical. Individual mileage will vary.
Thank you; what do you recommend for in-wall front R, L & Center?
If my current AVR only supports 2 height Atmos speakers eg 7.2.2 max, can I wire and install 4 x Atmos Speakers, splittihg each Atmos AVR output and then direct to each Atmos height speaker, enabling firing down towards sitting position (ie 30 to 60 degrees in front and 30 to 60 degrees behind the seat row position). Thiz would allow uz to then upgrade later to a AVR that supports 7.2.4. Will this cable Y-splitting idea work in the short to medium term? Thanks Chris
The problem to use bookshelf sound is having big boxes bellow the tv, I prefere cleaner ambient with ceiling sound, nowadays there is some good ceiling sound that are projected 45d to the couch, not perfect, but makes the deal and my wife doesn’t complain hahahah
Please share What brand of seating is the room with tv back ground lighting?
We just moved into a house that was built in 2001. It has 5 speakers in the living room ceiling, plus a large sub on the floor in the back corner. Two other rooms have two speakers each with an individual volume control. I assume this had dual purpose, HT in the living room or music throughout.
Could you point me in the right direction to help figure out if this system is useful? What might I need to set those 5 living room speakers for atmos?
Thanks.
Does having speakers behind a screen impact the sound coming to your sitting position?
Not if you EQ for thr HF loss and use a quality AT screen.
yes; though there are ways to plan for it and help mitigate the impact.
What do you think about unobtrusive options for surround speakers? I know ideally they'd be at around ear level but WAF means they can't go on stands and the couch doesn't have a wall near the left side. Am I better off going in the ceiling or too far behind?
What is your opinion on angled ceiling speakfor living room LCR?
better than firing straight down but the other 4 alternatives I suggest should be considered first.
Fantastic content and much needed for newcomers.
With the rise of good wireless speaker systems, I think that diamond pattern setup actually works great.
Very useful info, thanks for putting it together.
I'll be dealing with this in 2024 but will do it all myself, just so I get it right. Fortunately, it will be in a bonus room above the garage that will be unfinished just for this reason... speakers should all be ear height except Atmos and sub. I'm running 7.1.4 and my wife hates the Paradigm towers. I use my system as pure direct 2-channel listening so the entire system is calibrated to the MLP... fortunately, my wife doesn't care about that at all since she's just laying down while watching. Thanks!
In wall XLR connectors for Front 3 LCR mono blocks amps? Or mono block and XLR every speaker?
Hi, My builder has put all my speakers in the home theatre room in the ceiling, 3 at the front and 2 at the back. How can I repurpose the front ones as Atmos speakers? I was meant to get Jamo speakers but ended up with Yamaha NS-IC600 instead. These are only 2 way but have a directional tweeter.
What would you recommend for ceiling atmos speakers? Should I be looking for wide dispersion? The speakers will be installed at 30 degrees in front and behind the MLP. It's a fairly low ceiling, about 8 feet.
Any info or tips would be greatly appreciated.
If they are Sonos, the speakers don’t have to point straight down. They can be adjusted easily to point directly towards the audience.
Even some active sound bars are pretty decent sounding. I have a true Anthem/Paradigm 5.3.2 atmos system in my media/family room and a atmos 5.1.4 sound bar in the living room. Yes the separate system sounds better but the sound bar sounds pretty good for what it is. I auditioned a few sound bars at home until I found the right one though
Loving RBH. just great stuff, Been researching for almost 3 years now and Audioholics is the place to go for reference!
That texture you are using on the wall, where'd you get that??
Yes, I'm also interested in that feature wall material. Does it provide any acoustical advantage?