Realized this after posting and I added it to the video - but if a cheater is banned then all of the "rank points" they've stolen should be refunded. Anyone who lost against them should have their matches voided. Maybe the ones who won with them too if we wanna avoid rank inflation
I genuinely think that valve released ranked game this early to hear more about the community's thoughts and criticisms as well. I mean it is a mix of a whole new genre and everything. ofc matchmaking, especially ranked is gonna be hard to determine at first. Valve intends to hear more collective opinions like this I presume.👌
I think they released it so people stop playing like ranked in the normal games. People started tryharding due to all of the trackers popping out, while others still tried to chill with friends. So, they first removed the possibility to track all games and then added quickly a ranked mode, but it still doesn't have enough changes from the base mode because they haven't paid enough attention to it yet.
For all of the people writing their essays on this comment section, go write ur feedback in the forums. They read it, they implement things from it, they try new things. Especially if you have games with terrible matchmaking, report it with match IDs.
I mean people are forgetting this game is pre-alpha as you said, the point is to test things see what is good or not. The whole ranked system I would assume is a test as in if the ranked system works(not matchmaking at this point). The game is not released temper expectations the whole point is testing and feedback.
It absolutely is, it's why it's limited to the same time in every region, which is shit for Europe - it's because it's based on when devs are awake and able to monitor shit.
It's NOT a pre-alpha. It's not even in alpha. It's in BETA. The game is too complete to be in alpha. Bug fixing, new content (i.e. heroes) and balancing are all beta stage stuff.
@@vorbo01 You don't know what alpha stage is. Alpha stage is when the game is playable from start to finish but otherwise very bare bones and lacking major content and features. So being "pre-alpha" would mean you can't even play the game from start to finish. So it literally can't be in pre-alpha... Don't use terms you don't understand just because some other ignoramuses are using them.
Stacking / Boosting absolutely disproportionately effects your hidden Unranked MMR on new accounts. I tested it on two new accounts and got some data: Main Account (Baseline): I started learning the game ~2 months ago on this account and it has around 300 hours. Placed Phantom V week 1-2 and is now Phantom VI with a 60% overall winrate and an 80% winrate in ranked. New Account 1: I played most of the first 50 Unranked games in a stack with my Phantom and Oracle friends. 60% Overall Winrate, 60% Ranked Winrate. This account placed Ascendant III and is still Ascendant III. New Account 2: The first 5 games or so I started playing Unranked with 2 friend around the Seeker - Alchemist level. The next 45 Unranked games I played solo. This account has a 98% Winrate and I solo carried / stomped in all of these lobbies. Despite having insane individual stats and a 98% winrate, this account placed Archon IV. This seems to indicate that hidden "baseline MMR" calculation is heavily impacted by the MMR of lobbies that you play in, and has much less to do with variables like Winrate, personal performance, etc. On top of that, once your initial "baseline MMR" is determined, MMR gains / losses tend to be extremely slow in comparison. For example, I have played wayyy more games on my Main with good personal performance and an 80% ranked winrate, yet from Ranked Week 1-3 I have only been able to increase my rank by 1 subdivision. Meanwhile, my account with significantly less games played is able to maintain Ascendant III week after week. In short, it takes a significant amount of time to climb or fall out of your initial Rank. Meanwhile, you could simply make a new account and find high MMR people to group with during initial Unranked matches and you can easily be placed in a Rank much higher than your current account without having to grind for weeks / months. This means that "Boosting", done intentionally or not, effectively solidifies people within Ranks whether they belong there or not. TLDR; the Rank system is broken and there is no point in grinding Ranked when hidden unranked lobby MMR > Ranked winrate and personal performance. The system needs an overhaul before people can take it seriously at all.
I have 200 hours in Deadlock and i was placed in Archon 4 (now 5) and this makes sense. I was about to quit this game because of the unranked matchmaking because 9/10 of my games felt unwinnable so if my "hidden" MMR was Archon then i kept getting teammates way below that rank every match. But now in ranked I had some of the most fun in the game so far because it genuinely places me with 11 other people around my level. So even if the system is flawed it still works for me personally because the unranked experience is unplayable for me (i mostly solo queue).
You’re lucky. I played every character limit testing literally everything, then took a 3 week forced break just before ranked started because work. On return my games that were previously fun with emissary, archon and phantom players (based off deadlock tracker) are now with the 3 lowest ranks. Total beginners it’s so infuriating and making me want to quit. Based off this stupid system I wish i remove my match steam and start fresh. I don’t want to level an alt steam account just to play with people that aren’t total beginners.
Funnily enough, I have somewhat of the opposite happening to me. My unranked matches often feel WAY higher skill than my ranked matches. My rank matches are now finally starting to improve, but my unranked matches have more communication and better players. (my tracklock score was also way higher than my ingame rank, phantom, which dropped by 1 in my 2nd week of ranked, which made no sense tbh).
This makes no sense. Even in unranked the game still tries to make the skill between there two teams even. You should have had the same number of low MMR players on each team. If you are archon, that is because you are archon and for no other reason.
Some advice: if you want someone at Valve to notice your argument (or anyone else, really), make it shorter. At the 8-minute mark I noticed that you were repeating your points in aimless circles, advertising a future video, etc. If this is prewritten content, it needs to be shorter; if it isn't prewritten, this isn't a topic that benefits from off-the-cuff style delivery. No one has time to watch a rambling half-hour video that could be trimmed to half that time.
It gives me so much peace that someone that is high rank and well known in the community is talking about this. If someone like me, a middle of the road Archon player would say this, noone would take it seriously. I played for a month before the realease of ranked, and I played testing every character and different build, saying to myself I would only take it "seriously" when ranked came along. Then, to my surprise, those "testing" games matter A LOT. Plus, 70% of my losses are because someone quitted (friend or foe) and I just went "F it, Im not playing a 5v6 or 4v6" and left. Those counting as losses is so stupid.
Also, I was "report banned" twice. When I see someone who ends up being 1/20, I report them for "grieving", and when someone end up as 20/1, I report them for "matchmaking issues". Somehow that is wrong. But I dont see the option that says "this dude doesnt belong to this rank"
@@pgbeats704 Lol bro you're so delusional it's crazy. for one, who the f cares what this dude says lmao let him quit the game if he's bothered by it enough that he has to make a 25 min video. Nobody is making him play, full fucking stop. secondly: you two trashbags are in the same rank for a reason. I'll leave you the homework of figuring out the reason why.
I disagree that leaver games should not count. They have always counted in Dota and simmilar and it would lead to abuse and toxicity if they were voided. All you need is having harsher penalties for leaving, but right now it's not possible with current state of the game as it's not stable enough yet.
@@Alfie-ni7lx It isn't on timer. You have to leave before FB for it to not count, so there's no way to exploit it. I guess a similar mechanic will be seen here if it's not already.
Agreed. It sucks, but sometimes you just lose a bit of MMR to BS, it happens to everyone. Adding all these little rules/exceptions people always ask for won't change much and will likely just add even more confusion/abuse vectors. And in Deadlock, I find 5v6s to be pretty fun and worth attempting, moreso than Dota for some reason. Maybe because Deadlock is a bit more flexible with what heroes can do what, whereas in Dota, if your 4 protect 1 lineup loses its carry, it's joever. Heck.. this video complains about how it's bad that kills/damage matter more for your rank. That's an extra rule/exception, just like "I want my 25 rank good boy points back when a cheater is banned." Just keep it to getting a small range of +/- MMR (based on team mmr average diff) if you win/lose, no matter what happens.
I also play on EU ascendant, I've run into so many obvious cheaters, I kept a notepad++ file of all the ids I've reported them and I can still see they continue to play. It's like cheaters aren't being banned. A big reason I think is that so many players in this game are in denial that someone is cheating. I say dude this vindicta is cheating first thing I hear over comms "they're not cheating" as the vindicta just tried to ult me through a wall..
Literally had a sus vindicta yesterday in my game, dude was better at denying orbs than anyone i've seen before by far. I guess vindicta is the best champ for aimbotting that's why these rats gravitate towards playing her.
@@koreanzombie6697 yeah because she has the highest bullet velocity by far (so highest chance of denying/confirming souls), plus very high bullet frequency (shoots continuously) and obviously has a 1-shot mechanic on her ult (WITH CHARGES even) - she's the ideal char for cheating
@@nergal2741 i think she even bought high velocity mag on top of that (thought she did for that very reason, but vindictas might just build it in general, not too sure)
Tbf I've been told multiple times from enemies I'm cheating (I play a lot of Vindicta, funnily enough) and minimap and mapknowledge can make some things looks sus. I don't want to say you haven't met cheaters, though, because I probably met a few, that I'm 90% sure are toggling aswell. (like a horrendously terrible Geist suddenly hitting only head shots to missing every shot and repeat.)
Very valid concerns, however I'm pretty sure the whole system is going to be changed to be more in line with other ranked systems, the current situation being just a concession they made to have people more evenly spread out across the ranks. On release I think they will reset the MMR completely. People abusing during the playtest are most probably wasting their time. I personally like the fact that ranked is solo only, but I also think it could turn most people off playing, alongside it not being very satisfying to have your rank update once a week. I'm sure these things will get addressed though, I am quite surprised they already implemented a rank system this fast.
I think if you want it to be balanced then ranked groups will only be solo queue or 6, anything in between would be hard to balance (6v6 only not 6 v solo)
probably not 😭 though the main issue is the lack of incentive to play ranked so a lot of top players aren’t playing anymore. eternus 6 used to have 13 players (including me) in NA and now there are two. it’s just not super fun to grind for nothing, on top of pretty bad matchmaking tbh. just my perspective tho
The first thing you mentioned explains why the matchmaking feels so weird. I never understood how you can have in your team ppl who get 1 dead per minute. I came from League where not only micro is important, but if you have a good macro understanding is quite easy to win, the same goes for Deadlock, is easy to see that a play is not going to be good if you start a fight 3V5 or even 5V6, this is absolutely coin flip, and you can lose your game, but since Deadlock is a mix of MOBA and shooter, you get into matches where some guys only want to fight, or you have a PVE seven who farms 40k souls but does absolutely nothing in team fights, and the matchmaking keeps putting you with these random players, there is no consistency, no nothing. I got one rank in week 1, went to a higher position in week 2 and then dropped 3 positions yesterday so what is the point here? I also noticed as you mentioned that If you play heroes with lots of AOE, or maybe an Infernus/Mirage with ricochet where you can spread damage all around you easily can level up, so is quite clear that higher ranks doesn't translate in better players, it's always a surprise, every match. In the first 10 minutes you can exactly feel how the match is going to be and how people play. Also, in League for example if you play well you can carry your team, and still win, in Deadlock it's almost impossible to carry alone.
same bruh, during the first week i only played 7 games and they went horrible. In this week i played 20 games and won 13/20 and played decent ig, not carrying or anything but still way better than first week but still got the same rank.
I’ve experienced that if I play well in a loss, I play with higher ranked players the next game. (I was oracle 1 playing with phantom 1-3) If I then play bad or even average in a win I again play with my rank now being oracle 4 but yea, no phantom players. With this logic am I supposed to get high damage and KDA just to throw the game? It feels really weird right now.
So needed video. But people will still say "ItS jUsT AlPhA bRO". It is alpha but like Ottr said, not criticising is not improving. Game is made better then most released games and has already big player base. However, like you said. Thats literally the worst ranked system i have ever seen. Like, they had 2 good options. Before someone will say there is no mmr and neekos doesnt work. They fkin do. Game has its own mmr count, thats why neekoscores are fine, they are just counted in their own way which still makes it similar with valves "hidden mmr". One option and the best is that everyone starts from 0 mmr and it would be fine, people would finally climb where they supposed to. 2nd option is that if we start playing rankeds from our normal matches mmr, it should add your win/lose from that point. Meanwhile, and that just 1 example. I was playing week1 on 2.5k mmr and had 60% wr. Then a viewer from tiktok dms me and says that he made new account. He was playing on max 2000 mmr (and thats latest games, he stared way lower) That wont be nice, but he was not even that good. He was playing normals on his main account on 1800mmr. Guess what, after first rank distribution, just in 1 day he gets higher rank then me, and he played vs bots and his mmr grows from 2000 to 2500 just like that because he was placed too high. So people like me played vs really good people, but people with high wr while playing vs bots are still placed higher. And my mmr on rankeds was growing everyday, i can literally say that there is huge difference between 2300 2400 and 2500mmr matches. Another thing is that performance data is not working as it supposed to. Quick example, can show a Dynamo player with 65% wr in eternus. Logically, he plays support he doesnt have too much kills and dmg. He deranked 2 ranks. WITH 65% WR thats insane. And i know fiev examples from dynamo players just like that. The fact that you play 7 days without any info whats happening with you is bullshit aswell. Some games because of draft are literally lost while you zip to lane. Without drafts picks its just 50/50 who gets better draft when you play vs better people.
I don't think you know what being in alpha means. Just because a game has a large playerbase and is made well does not make it not in alpha. The devs literally said when ranked was released that it was just to test it's functionalities out before the actual release. This can all be helped by NOT TAKING A GAME THAT IS NOT FINISHED SERIOUSLY.
@@Daedric_4E201 I disagree. If you don't care about game and don't take it seriously you cannot make good criticism against it because why would you even care at that point. He has good points, if top player constantly wins but plays as support yet is deranked, why bother? It's not like this game is made by some new devs with zero experience. It should be made from scratch that if you put effort, do well be it support your team or get kills, you should be rewarded not punished even if you lose games at that point.
@@Daedric_4E201 dude, that the last thing i thought i would need to explain to anyone. I know game is in alpha, but like Ottr said that doesnt change shit. Not criticising is not improving. I take it seriously because i want it to suceed. (I edited just for you)
Theres also 1 more thing. People starting to play rankeds, that are currently unranked, are being placed in ascendand/eternus lobbies. How does that end? During first 2 weeks i had like max 3-4 raqeuits in my or enem team combined. ONLY this week i had 14 ragequits. Guess what, most of them were unrankeds placed too high (the rest just Haze players :D), doing 0/10 and 2k dmg in 20 minutes then leaving. Can i blame them? Yes and no, its game fault that new players just because they won some games are being placed so high in rankeds. Show me one game, where you, without rank are placed in last 2 ranks of the game. If you check the graphs from lets say Lol, Valorant and Deadlock, then Deadlock looks the same, just the other way. Like how on earth so many people may be in last 4 ranks, meanwhile in lol there is barely 3% player base.
From many friends that play Deadlock, most of them quit for now, because ranked sucks and they had no fun, its already been 3 weeks, and we had no update on anything in rankeds, so i understand them, because i also have less fun every week. I dont think that allowing us to know how we progress every match is a thing that will change anything in their data collecting nor it will stop their work on it.
While there are a lot of variable. Performance based system is necessary in competitive moba games. One bad player can cause huge difference. Based on dota, different ranks play game differently. Being above a certain rank and playing the ranked game which is below your skill level doesn't mean you have better odds of winning, it might be contrary because decision making is different. For example: maybe you are high skill player who plays niche and demanding hero that does well in high tier lobbies because you execute certain strategy and play smart. All of it will fall apart because lower tier lobby play is different. Lower tier lobby players will initiate team fights that shouldn't be initiated and its sadly, it will cause you the game unless you are able to become as bad as they are in a certain sense. Yes deadlock is a shooter but you can't outshoot other players like you can in Apex or CS or any other shooter. Its different.
this is what ive been saying for so long. i got archon because i used to not take qp seriously and do troll builds with friends. over the 3 weeks of ranked ive had over 65% winrate and still im in archon. its p much impossible to climb even if u win all ur games. if i had known my unranked qp hidden mmr was taken into account for ranked, i wouldve tryharded in qp
I have 2 accounts. I created an alt to practice heroes I'm bad at to not affect my game quality on my main when I play with my higher ranked friends. Guess which one is 2 ranks above(Not subranks, 2 whole ranks) It'd roughly take 100 games to even come close. I could just start a new account and do half the games and probably end up Eternus.
Just wanted to say that it's almost guaranteed a draft is coming at some point. No matter how much you want to push aside the pre-alpha state, it's perfectly reasonable the first pass at ranked is not a draft. My biggest gripe is the painfully inconsistent MMing ping-ponging between balanced, being down 40k souls by 15 mins, and easily rolling them.
You should provide your feedback in the official Deadlock feedback forums. There are ways that Valve could detect if someone was being carried or not, if they wanted to make a ranked system that considers more than just wins and losses. But the thing is, in order to make a ranked system like that Valve would need to keep it secret due to the risk of abuse.
It's possible that it's skill issue but I've played a lot of different games and you'll see 50-50 mm in one way shape or form in most of them. My issue that maybe wasn't clear in the video is that In deadlock, the difference between the 50-50 wins and losses is far more noticeable than any other that I've played
@shamefuldisplay9692 The problem is when you get to that point nearly every match is either your team steamrolling or the enemy team steamrolling, very rarely an actual even match, which begs the question of whether the game really is matching you with similarly skilled players or not, because if it is there shouldn't be a lot of steamrolling to begin with, at least one would think. That's without even going into the hero lineup matchmaking.
Yep I agree, same thing with all the people complaning that a "losers queue" exists just because they keep losing games due to teammates. Like literally in any moba game you can make a strategic call that can turn the tides of the game, its all about being consistent and learn to play. I'm currently 19 W 1 L in my last 20 normal games (high ascendant lobbies) and even if we got stomped in some of those eventually all it takes is good shotcalling and gameplan to win it back.
This makes so much sense. I won all my ranked games last week and got ritualist, which makes no sesne to me. But when you combine normal play it makes sense. Since I just normal with heroes I am bad with or try out new builds, nothing serious.
They could just make performance based for the lower tier ranks and remove this performance for the higher tiers. Since these metrics probability becomes less accurate as skill of player increases.
Question is now: after you’ve gotten your rank and is grinding ranked, are qp matches still affecting your hidden mmr? Cause atm I dont even wanna play qp and try out new heroes and build incase it tanks my mmr hard
i disagree with the predetermined rank thing, yes it’s ofc somewhat based on ur initial mmr as it is in all games, but the main issue imo is the insane performance based focus of the ranked system. that’s the main explanation as to why lefaa made eternus 6, he is an insane player and always puts up numbers so he places high regardless of winrate.
The game is in early closed test Agree with what you said, but I'm sure the ranked was a quick and dirty throw in just to put 'similar' level players together, so they can use the stats to focus on development, character creation and a general game balance. 90% of the game at the moment is balance patching, so I assume it's to put players in rough brackets to assist that. I assume a better interpretation of ranked will come further down the line with more refinement but I imagine that is very low on their priorities right now.
This is the first time I've played a game, sat down and gone through my routine of looking at replays/vods and asking myself "what can *I* do better" and a lot of the time, I genuinely don't know, like my build is fine, because I'm personally doing just fine, but I don't know how to bring my team up, funnily enough I main Ivy and one of her voice lines is literally "you can make opportunities, but you can't make people take them" and that's how it feels like the amount of times I give my opponent healing rite, only for them rush back into battle and get it cancelled is so frustrating or the amount of times, I stun/slow someone with a teammate nearby and I will even say "stunning/slowijng" and they just don't help me, I feel so bad for dynamo players because they will call their ult mid team fight and outside of me and one other person maybe, everybody just fucks off and then dynamo dies bc they put their neck out there for awful teammates
So I will share my experience as an ascendant 5 ranked EU (eastern Europe) player. At around 10 minutes there is talks about toxicity. Is there toxicity in DL yes there is, but it's way lower than what is in cs for example, and I honestly don't find toxicity a problem I feel like it's at a normal number. As for cheaters, I have found only 3 blatant cheaters in 300 hours. Regarding 50/50 mm, I don't find that game tried to get you a win and then a loss. I find that on some days the game just hates me and other days the game gives me free wins. For example I had a really bad record in unranked and went on like a decent loss streak over a few days, but when I got into ranked I went 9 - 1 and at the end of the week went up a rank (asc 4 -> 5) despite losing a ton of games in unranked. So I believe that's it's basically random and just a coinflip
OMG the 50 50 matchmaking drove me mad recently i had a 14 game win streak and then went on a 11 game losing streak to then go 2 losses 1 win until rank calc. 14 wins to - 15 loses
I respect the amount of work that you put into the essay and there are things that I would totally agree with you upon, but also there are points that I find really questionable. I suppose that the invidivual metrics systems were introduced as an intent to calculate your individual impact on the game just for the reasons that you described in the end of the video - your team has some random foreigners that do not communicate and/or there is a leaver/cheater/griefer. In such a chaotic team dynamics that valve cannot really control (hopefully for now) it is quite unreasonable to count your mmr based on if you won or not. So they are trying to implement systems that would count your indvidual impact on the game rather than you just being unlucky with a bad team or you being carried by good teammates. Yes, the current iteration of said systems might not be very accurate right now, but seeing the tendency of the development course of the game I have very high hopes that eventually the dev team will find just the right setup to accurately calculate your rank. Void the match results if there´s a leaver on your team? Oh man that would be abused waaaaaaaay too harder than the system´s being abused right now. If you realize your team is losing you just pick an escape goat from your team who abandons the game and the whole team doesnt get minus points. Matchmaking trying to rig your games?.. Sir that´s just kind of victim mentality that you can see people pick up on in any multiplayer game with matchmaking system. (Also I cant think of any game that has really good and 100% accurate MM system, so it´s safe to assume that reaching that level is pretty damn difficult if not impossible with the endless amount of factors that developers have to take into account) Anyways, it is most likely that the dev team has way more knowledge and experience in building such a complicated system than you, me, or anyone in the section comments. And props to the devs for making the game´s development somewhat transparent, allowing players to participate in the process and share their opinions, rather than just rolling out a version of the game without willing to recieve any feedback. I believe this game has a long-going future and currently is just in it´s infancy period, so personally I would abstain from making any kind of big statements that THE RANKED SYSTEM IS STRAIGHT BAD AND BROKEN or anything like that. Let them cook. They will do the right thing. At least I hope so. Cheers!
I don't know how accurate the different ELO trackers are in this game but I tried looking at a few of my games on tracklock and if it's anywhere near accurate then this game is doomed... One of the games I looked at my team had someone leave a few minutes in after getting farmed in lane. Like no joke, they had 3.7K souls, 0 kills, 0 assists, and 6 deaths with a mere 136 hero damage and 13 objective damage... That same game I had the highest Hero damage in the game at 31K with 10 kills, 6 deaths and 7 assist... Now Here's what made me lose all faith in tracklock, because according to their site the teammate who left, not only got a higher match rating than I, but was tied for the highest match rating in the whole lobby! I can't even fathom a reality in which you have any sort of a MMR system that would give that result? Like literally every single person in the game outperformed him in literally every single statistic that you could possibly track. Yet somehow this guy get's tied for the highest match rating score? How?
tbh i dont feel any difference between ranked or normal, i play ranked to try hard and climb but the games are the same quality as normals which i mostly play since i work in the afternoon so i usaly cant play during the ranked window but when i find the time, like on the weekend, its just the same quality there is like no difference and there for no reason to play one over the other just play what gives you faster ques right now
if you void the game for the leavers team someone can just leave everytime theyre gonna lose and just never have a loss. thatll just lead to more abuse.
I was archon 6 after my first ranked week, and on my second week I had an amazing win streak, ended with 13 wins and 3 losses, after all that I climbed to oracle 4. Not sure if this is really how it's supposed to go and I should be happy that I climbed, but I felt kinda disappointed because I really believed that I'd be at least phantom, since the vast majority of my team mates and opponents are phantom or low ascendant.
There is no performance based matchmaking in this game so the point about losing harder is not applicable. Also voiding MMR gain / loss if someone leaves would be an insanely bad system due to massive abuse potential and as a toxicity catalyst.
Hey, take a look at the numbers on Tracklock for the number of players who are in each rank. Numbers of Eternus, Ascendant, Phantom and oracle have dropped significantly since week 1. Lots of people who were boosted are getting tanked.
Hey man. Idk how Tracklock works but when i look at my "account" last match that was tracked was 14 days ago . Is it working properly or i miss something. Thx
I'd argue this ranked system isn't perfect, but still one of the best across all competitive games already. If you look at League, Dota, CS, and even battle royal games like Apex, this is already the best one.
Goddanm, that is a pre alpha game. And all the solutions you've have presente have exploits in it. You cant't void a match because somebody left because, then every match will end with someone leaving when the lost match is near. And the numbers they track are not cumulative, it is a delta of the whole data. There is no sense in charting how much damage you do and rank accordingly. You must compare between the highest numbers and see who does it best. If every body is fighting and the numbers are crazy high makes no difference, because who have skill will have better deltas than those who don't.
As far as I know, hidden mmr is calculated with a complex algorithm that analyzes yor souls per minits, accuracy, damage, in-game decisions and stuff. So if you play in a pack in pubs, and you get carried, your mmr will be the one the algo considers considering your performance. Wins do not count as much as in other games. Said that, the thing that this is done with pubs is bs, pubs are for having fun, testing stuff, chilling and sometimes playhard, it is bad design to consider these ase ranked
ranked is completely broken, due to boosting, etc, matches become so polarized and since it's a 6v6,, moba, etc, your individual contribution is so small (even smaller on some heroes) that you can't really carry your team most of the time. The game has way too many people that should be 3-4 ranks lower than they are. This + bad rng draft is just automatic loss most of the time.
Ranked system is working perfectly fine. The better you are, the higher your rank is. How do I know this? I play a lot of this game, every ranked week so far I've had over 50 ranked games played, with multiple unranked in between. First week I placed Ascendant I, which I was happy with, although I knew I could do better. Second week of ranked my record was 27 Wins, 23 Loses, ranked up to Ascendant III, last week I went 26 Wins, 24 Loses, ranked up to Ascendant V. So as you can see, I dont have a crazy win rate when it comes to games, but the one thing I do have is a good performance in all of my games. Im not trying to sound like a douchebag and brag about how good of a player I am, but I pretty much carry 70% of my games, and that kind of proves to me, that your own performance matters when it comes to rank ups. How else would I go from Ascendant III to V with 26W 24L ratio?
@@UnSven thats due to the current distribution, such a large amount of players are in asc/phantom that the skill range varies immensely. or it could also be that ur one of those players that likes to blame their team
Nah, everything except for not being able to pick heroes works fine but I am sure it will be resolved as soon as the game will have more heroes. Regarding the part about not tracking rank in unranked games would make game very imbalanced and unplayable for not so skilled players because not all good players play unranked just to play fun builds, some just love winning so it will just bring more toxicity and chaos into both ranked and unranked games.
It IS a pre-alpha game though. What are we realistically expecting here? If you care about your rank right now, you're WAY off the mark. The incentive to keep playing is YOU ARE ABLE TO PLAY IN THE FIRST PLACE. I get voicing your opinion on it, and that's fair but so many people are posting saying they're feeling bummed out and sad about grinding for a rank??? That seems like a fool's errand. If the game stops being fun, stop. Stop demanding stuff that simply won't be even possible yet, let alone likely to happen any time soon. Let Valve cook, and be patient.
I don't fully believe about the party system. I always play with my friends 3-6 stack every single game. I'm a dynamo main so I eventually get the lowest dmg cause I build towards ult every time. I have the highest assist because I usually land some good ults by hiding most of the time and timing a good ult. I made a few game changing ults from time to time too. So I wasn't exactly being "carried" by my friends all the time just because I'm a support. However, whenever I queue with my friends, the party shows that there is a wide skill range. I haven't got my rank but I bet I'm very far away from their rank.
Yeah the amount of toxicity in a litteral playtest is shocking to me and I am not easily shocked. It's a shame cause it's such a great game and realistically I don't know what Valve can do about it, the commend system was a good idea but it doesn't seem to have made a difference. I don't know if this is a problem at higher level too, probably not as bad.
The last criticisms I think are the more relevant. Performance based and big ranking variations. I personally suffer with performance based a lot. My stats in most games are very low but I have big win rates. Was Immortal on dota 2 (like eternus). I just win doing what I think it's best. If it's performance based I just feel like picking haze and going afk. The fast transition to higher ranks or lower to see if you carry is also very weird. I play a game imagining that I have a certain level of players, so I don't pick haze and afk farm for example. But end up with horrible people and regret winning other peoples lanes instead of farming.
I'm etternus 1 if I try to que qp with my etternus /ascendant 6 friends on main it will not let us que and just say too many hogh mmr players so we have to smurf to play together outside of scrims
Had to lane against a vindicta yesterday that was probably a cheater, around phantom mmr. The guy was stealing every single orb immediatly, never seen anything like it, couldn't deny orbs from him even when i was way closer to creeps. Still ended up winning the game thankfully, but lane was annoying as hell.
Well what do you expect in a "still under development" game..., think it's a game that is still in Active Development, you seriously can't expect everything to be inny binny perfectly made like hoodini
The QP to ranked MMR thing can be solved quite easily by only letting solo QP affect your solo MMR that is taken into account for ranked. I'm sure (unfortunately) that there will be duo ranked at some point which is also a massive advantage over solo so I hope they will just be kept separate queue wise and mmr wise. Forever. Ranked has plenty of issues but unranked play is FAR worse and makes me want to quit the game. Constantly games with and against premades with their trash friends and no communication to the solo players on the team. It's not even fun, the games aren't winnable or if you get the better stack, you can't lose even if you'd afk in spawn.
I hope they gatherings some stats for determine rank Like getting hit and stun In deadlock cc is huge deal and tanker is also a role that everyone forgot Yeah they might not have healing stats more than some character like lady geist or infernus But they sustain that tank every skill that enemy throw to them making team win easier
I agree, there is 0 explanation as to how you rank up. it can't be, I repeat it can not be solely based on winning. I call BS to anyone that makes that claim, I went 9-2 for my first ranked qualifiers and got ranked the rank above initiate(cant remember the name). I see other YT's with far lower win/loss ratio that got ranked in the top 2 ranks. no f'n way.. maybe it goes off of K/D ? mine isn't that great as I play aggressive and die a lot but also get a lot of kills. its common for me to have 15-10 k/d games so that might be why?
I know it's alpha, but I'm kinda disgusted to see this "confirmed". I've spent hours and hours testing builds in quick play. I performed horribly bad trying to come up with ideas because I don't want to just copy/paste public builds. Ended up Initiate no matter what I do. Quality of the games js abysmal. It's not even about win/lose, it just feels bad playing with people who don't even understand the base gameplay.
My bud n me played together most of the quickplay matches, yet there was a skill gap between us. Now I don't now what specific rank he ended up, but he said those were so easy matches etc. Me on the other hand went straight to archon and the matches were rather tough. So it would make sense with the hidden MMR
The abondon game not to count is kinda bs, last game i had a leaver in my team we just full force and crushed our enemies until they started leaving and we won. Maybe give the team that has the first leaver less mmr loss and more mmr gain?
@ottr In cesual I was mostly playing around 2000 lobbies and mostly with friends, so I was surpriesed when I first tried ranked that I got matched with even higher elo (2100-2200) so around phantom level. Then I was surprised again when despite having good placement matches, having won 6 out of 7, I've got placed only in archon V (1600mmr). Im not sure why I was placed so low, so I think there is something else to it?
If you have high mmr 6 stack it just straight up says you have too many high mmr acc0int so we have to hop on smurfs to play up with my high elo friends
need to concider that before everyone could get hands on a game deadlock peaked 1-3k players daily all the sudden we at 150k+ couple days so in general quality of games have dropped drasticly that doesnt mean much but still get my point its ez to get ur mmr to 2k+ and u literally be playing people like lystic and stuff even tho they at 3k game is going to be worse in terms of ranked as soon its public test so many new players will come need some time to settle in general the lower elo u are more likely u get impacted by that
Wait kills/damage affect your rank too, beyond just your win/losses? I need to see some evidence for this, not to doubt but it seems like a huge deal. If it's true, I'm no longer an Ivy main. She can do buttloads of damage/kills with some builds no doubt, but I like playing her supporty too.
well the matchmaking heroes sucks so bad... you can have all the squishy team against all the tanky team which is so hard to play with noobs who doesnt understand that some hero need more farm before getting owning while some can go crazy from early on.. and they play it like counter strike! "bro as long as im headshoting they dead!"
yeah duh, Imagine you playing normal game in Alchemist elo and you suddenly get pwned by some dude who belong in Ascendant playing lash and roaming every 1 minutes. By 10 minutes he already at 13/1/5
Well said , this is basically why I stopped playing for some time now.....they should pls reset everyone's mmr..I stomp at the rank I'm now like 20 + kills every other game and then still lose some of them because of a DC or new player trying ranked ...how the F can I still be the same rank, why do I get punished by pub (mmr) and so hard for losing if its not even my fault ....q solo ranked = nightmare...and makes we want to stop..I do love the game itself so much think its awesome, but if pub(normal) games mmr have such an influence on ranked why even play...sorry its of my chest now just wanted to put it out there...peace
Started DL not long before week 1 of ranked it’s now the end of week 3 and I only have 200 hours currently. after playing with friends that don’t play shooters and other friends that don’t play mobas. I can for sure say my mmr took a hit, going into ranked with the hopes that it was going to calculate all my games based on how I played gave me hope for ranked after going 8 - 13 on week 1 I placed ritualist 1. I didn’t think to much about it I was bummed but I noticed something in week 2 that when I hit esc to look at ranks my rank was rising game to game like it was calculating my rank live hmmm? WEIRD?? I thought they weren’t doing that after they patched it I noticed the games I got into had emissary 5-6 and archon 1-4. after dominating week 2 with 20 wins and 8 loses I was really looking forward to just getting placed into archon maybe oracle… nope I got emissary 2. week 3 was a busy week for me I only played 11 games only losing 2 games mostly archons in my games even tho I’m emissary which is fine again I want to play against better people and rank up faster but even with that I only go to emissary 5. in the short of it I think it’s all based on mmr and doesn’t give anyone large jumps even if you play above your current rank
To add to this. at this point I’d like it to just calculate ranks game to game so I don’t have to grind for the week and just see my downfall or my rise
To add on again since I just got to 13:31 in the video I hope obj damage weighs more in the future either as much as damage or even more than damage I’m definitely an obj player and usually find myself getting 20-30k obj damage vs my 15k-40k player damage depending the game. It’s not that I don’t help the team and I’m never there but I find it better to get my team flex slots so they can keep doing damage vs trying to fight 6v6 and not get anything out of it
i feel like the simplistic solution to the first issue is just have a LARGE amount of initial ranked placement games 10 in any game is never enough currently with the system it’s “60” games to get your end rank the 50 qp then the ten ranked it should just be play your qp that gives a SMALL estimate as to your skill but would only bump you marginally above or below the bell curve then your placements begin to take place and that’s where you start going against people who also want the ranked grind doing 20+ placements might be disheartening at first but it’s for the matchmakers sake especially in its testing era
Stats based rank system is dumb AF, the developer doesn't and can't account for everything a player is doing and going to do to win the game, says 0/13/(*) support in dota2 who just dies a lot attracting enemy attention to make space, I know someone who got immortal doing this in dota, come on.
I also wonder if playing only 7 games is enough. Like I've seen people on phantom play only 7 and rank up while I play like 20 games and rank up just a little. I also don't really understand whats the point of the ranks if most matches will be (2-3 People of the same rank as you and 3-4 unraked people) Why not play the same ranks?!
i dont think your solution would really work on a game like deadlock in apex its not as bad if u start at the very beginning because its a br. in a 6v6 the start of the rank experience would be so terrible if your new/ bad at the game. the unranked new player experience isnt too bad because you only get matchmade with other players with new accounts. but if you put together all the players who havent played ranked or calibrated the skill gap would be massive and borderline unplayable for lower ranked players. valorant rank system also works this way but is less of a problem because its not solo q only. i think a better way is just to take party wins before your first ranked game with a grain of salt and mostly estimate mmr based off your solo q pub games
like no joke, I was toying with support vindicta for quite long time right before ranked came out, I was winning lots of game but my neko went down like hell. Now I know why and my initial rank got hurt a lot because of it. I def quitting this game until they fix these things, I climbed the rank a lot since the inital, but I had to play the way the AI ML model lord is telling me to, WTF
I feel like people are forgetting that this game is still in early development. The system was released because they are testing things. The algo changes several times a week. It is not done. Sometimes a bug happens, other times they are changing a couple values drastically to see how it affects match quality. Hell, they are still testing what people think is a good match. That includes match length. Do people want more even games that run longer? Or do they prefer shorter games that will almost certainly be decided earlier? Do people enjoy stomps when they are doing to the stomping? When should a comeback still be possible? When your team is owning for the first 15 minutes, should the other team be able to catch up while avoiding fights? Is it frustrating to know that the urn is currently such a clear catch-up mechanic that reduces risks for the losing team? How much should early kills matter and how much should killing enemies on a kill-streak matter? All of these questions are STILL being answered. So yeah, there will be some days or even weeks where the matchmaking feels off TO YOU while others are having the time of their lives. The plan is to maximize the number of people having a good time but people on a losing streak will inevitably blame matchmaking. This game is simply not ready to be treated as your main MMR grind. You are a tester of an unfinished matching-feature, not a customer of a finished product. Feedback is welcome but this "OMG IT IS A FAILURE WHY WOULD THEY SHIP IT LIKE THIS" Attitude has to go
Realized this after posting and I added it to the video - but if a cheater is banned then all of the "rank points" they've stolen should be refunded. Anyone who lost against them should have their matches voided.
Maybe the ones who won with them too if we wanna avoid rank inflation
wait wait wait it isnt the thing already?
I genuinely think that valve released ranked game this early to hear more about the community's thoughts and criticisms as well. I mean it is a mix of a whole new genre and everything. ofc matchmaking, especially ranked is gonna be hard to determine at first. Valve intends to hear more collective opinions like this I presume.👌
i mean they literally said this
I think they released it so people stop playing like ranked in the normal games. People started tryharding due to all of the trackers popping out, while others still tried to chill with friends. So, they first removed the possibility to track all games and then added quickly a ranked mode, but it still doesn't have enough changes from the base mode because they haven't paid enough attention to it yet.
They literally encourage feedback on their forum and then work on implementing those suggestions xD
For all of the people writing their essays on this comment section, go write ur feedback in the forums.
They read it, they implement things from it, they try new things.
Especially if you have games with terrible matchmaking, report it with match IDs.
Nah i want to write an angry essay on reddit.
I mean people are forgetting this game is pre-alpha as you said, the point is to test things see what is good or not. The whole ranked system I would assume is a test as in if the ranked system works(not matchmaking at this point). The game is not released temper expectations the whole point is testing and feedback.
It absolutely is, it's why it's limited to the same time in every region, which is shit for Europe - it's because it's based on when devs are awake and able to monitor shit.
@@froggouk2 No... The ranked is open at different times depending on the region. It isn't open at the same time on every region.
It's NOT a pre-alpha. It's not even in alpha. It's in BETA. The game is too complete to be in alpha. Bug fixing, new content (i.e. heroes) and balancing are all beta stage stuff.
@@beiggo21no, it's pre alpha. I mean ffs, the art assets aren't even done yet
@@vorbo01 You don't know what alpha stage is. Alpha stage is when the game is playable from start to finish but otherwise very bare bones and lacking major content and features. So being "pre-alpha" would mean you can't even play the game from start to finish. So it literally can't be in pre-alpha... Don't use terms you don't understand just because some other ignoramuses are using them.
Stacking / Boosting absolutely disproportionately effects your hidden Unranked MMR on new accounts. I tested it on two new accounts and got some data:
Main Account (Baseline): I started learning the game ~2 months ago on this account and it has around 300 hours. Placed Phantom V week 1-2 and is now Phantom VI with a 60% overall winrate and an 80% winrate in ranked.
New Account 1: I played most of the first 50 Unranked games in a stack with my Phantom and Oracle friends. 60% Overall Winrate, 60% Ranked Winrate. This account placed Ascendant III and is still Ascendant III.
New Account 2: The first 5 games or so I started playing Unranked with 2 friend around the Seeker - Alchemist level. The next 45 Unranked games I played solo. This account has a 98% Winrate and I solo carried / stomped in all of these lobbies. Despite having insane individual stats and a 98% winrate, this account placed Archon IV.
This seems to indicate that hidden "baseline MMR" calculation is heavily impacted by the MMR of lobbies that you play in, and has much less to do with variables like Winrate, personal performance, etc. On top of that, once your initial "baseline MMR" is determined, MMR gains / losses tend to be extremely slow in comparison. For example, I have played wayyy more games on my Main with good personal performance and an 80% ranked winrate, yet from Ranked Week 1-3 I have only been able to increase my rank by 1 subdivision. Meanwhile, my account with significantly less games played is able to maintain Ascendant III week after week. In short, it takes a significant amount of time to climb or fall out of your initial Rank.
Meanwhile, you could simply make a new account and find high MMR people to group with during initial Unranked matches and you can easily be placed in a Rank much higher than your current account without having to grind for weeks / months. This means that "Boosting", done intentionally or not, effectively solidifies people within Ranks whether they belong there or not.
TLDR; the Rank system is broken and there is no point in grinding Ranked when hidden unranked lobby MMR > Ranked winrate and personal performance. The system needs an overhaul before people can take it seriously at all.
I have 200 hours in Deadlock and i was placed in Archon 4 (now 5) and this makes sense. I was about to quit this game because of the unranked matchmaking because 9/10 of my games felt unwinnable so if my "hidden" MMR was Archon then i kept getting teammates way below that rank every match. But now in ranked I had some of the most fun in the game so far because it genuinely places me with 11 other people around my level. So even if the system is flawed it still works for me personally because the unranked experience is unplayable for me (i mostly solo queue).
my exact experience even down to my play time and rank
You’re lucky. I played every character limit testing literally everything, then took a 3 week forced break just before ranked started because work. On return my games that were previously fun with emissary, archon and phantom players (based off deadlock tracker) are now with the 3 lowest ranks. Total beginners it’s so infuriating and making me want to quit.
Based off this stupid system I wish i remove my match steam and start fresh. I don’t want to level an alt steam account just to play with people that aren’t total beginners.
People try harder which is why ranked feels better. The matchmaking itself isn't actually any better.
Funnily enough, I have somewhat of the opposite happening to me. My unranked matches often feel WAY higher skill than my ranked matches. My rank matches are now finally starting to improve, but my unranked matches have more communication and better players. (my tracklock score was also way higher than my ingame rank, phantom, which dropped by 1 in my 2nd week of ranked, which made no sense tbh).
This makes no sense.
Even in unranked the game still tries to make the skill between there two teams even. You should have had the same number of low MMR players on each team.
If you are archon, that is because you are archon and for no other reason.
Some advice: if you want someone at Valve to notice your argument (or anyone else, really), make it shorter. At the 8-minute mark I noticed that you were repeating your points in aimless circles, advertising a future video, etc. If this is prewritten content, it needs to be shorter; if it isn't prewritten, this isn't a topic that benefits from off-the-cuff style delivery. No one has time to watch a rambling half-hour video that could be trimmed to half that time.
It gives me so much peace that someone that is high rank and well known in the community is talking about this. If someone like me, a middle of the road Archon player would say this, noone would take it seriously. I played for a month before the realease of ranked, and I played testing every character and different build, saying to myself I would only take it "seriously" when ranked came along. Then, to my surprise, those "testing" games matter A LOT. Plus, 70% of my losses are because someone quitted (friend or foe) and I just went "F it, Im not playing a 5v6 or 4v6" and left. Those counting as losses is so stupid.
Also, I was "report banned" twice. When I see someone who ends up being 1/20, I report them for "grieving", and when someone end up as 20/1, I report them for "matchmaking issues". Somehow that is wrong. But I dont see the option that says "this dude doesnt belong to this rank"
@@pgbeats704 Lol bro you're so delusional it's crazy.
for one, who the f cares what this dude says lmao let him quit the game if he's bothered by it enough that he has to make a 25 min video. Nobody is making him play, full fucking stop.
secondly: you two trashbags are in the same rank for a reason. I'll leave you the homework of figuring out the reason why.
I'm absolutely treating deadlock just like tf2...casual fun
I disagree that leaver games should not count. They have always counted in Dota and simmilar and it would lead to abuse and toxicity if they were voided. All you need is having harsher penalties for leaving, but right now it's not possible with current state of the game as it's not stable enough yet.
not early abandoned games. If people left in the first 5 mins it wouldnt count as a loss or win
@@Alfie-ni7lx It isn't on timer. You have to leave before FB for it to not count, so there's no way to exploit it. I guess a similar mechanic will be seen here if it's not already.
Agreed. It sucks, but sometimes you just lose a bit of MMR to BS, it happens to everyone. Adding all these little rules/exceptions people always ask for won't change much and will likely just add even more confusion/abuse vectors.
And in Deadlock, I find 5v6s to be pretty fun and worth attempting, moreso than Dota for some reason. Maybe because Deadlock is a bit more flexible with what heroes can do what, whereas in Dota, if your 4 protect 1 lineup loses its carry, it's joever.
Heck.. this video complains about how it's bad that kills/damage matter more for your rank. That's an extra rule/exception, just like "I want my 25 rank good boy points back when a cheater is banned." Just keep it to getting a small range of +/- MMR (based on team mmr average diff) if you win/lose, no matter what happens.
I also play on EU ascendant, I've run into so many obvious cheaters, I kept a notepad++ file of all the ids I've reported them and I can still see they continue to play. It's like cheaters aren't being banned. A big reason I think is that so many players in this game are in denial that someone is cheating. I say dude this vindicta is cheating first thing I hear over comms "they're not cheating" as the vindicta just tried to ult me through a wall..
Yep, there's also togglers which is hard to tell by people with like no CS experience i guess.
Literally had a sus vindicta yesterday in my game, dude was better at denying orbs than anyone i've seen before by far. I guess vindicta is the best champ for aimbotting that's why these rats gravitate towards playing her.
@@koreanzombie6697 yeah because she has the highest bullet velocity by far (so highest chance of denying/confirming souls), plus very high bullet frequency (shoots continuously) and obviously has a 1-shot mechanic on her ult (WITH CHARGES even) - she's the ideal char for cheating
@@nergal2741 i think she even bought high velocity mag on top of that (thought she did for that very reason, but vindictas might just build it in general, not too sure)
Tbf I've been told multiple times from enemies I'm cheating (I play a lot of Vindicta, funnily enough) and minimap and mapknowledge can make some things looks sus. I don't want to say you haven't met cheaters, though, because I probably met a few, that I'm 90% sure are toggling aswell. (like a horrendously terrible Geist suddenly hitting only head shots to missing every shot and repeat.)
Very valid concerns, however I'm pretty sure the whole system is going to be changed to be more in line with other ranked systems, the current situation being just a concession they made to have people more evenly spread out across the ranks. On release I think they will reset the MMR completely. People abusing during the playtest are most probably wasting their time. I personally like the fact that ranked is solo only, but I also think it could turn most people off playing, alongside it not being very satisfying to have your rank update once a week. I'm sure these things will get addressed though, I am quite surprised they already implemented a rank system this fast.
I think if you want it to be balanced then ranked groups will only be solo queue or 6, anything in between would be hard to balance (6v6 only not 6 v solo)
Would this video exist if he was Eternus
probably not 😭 though the main issue is the lack of incentive to play ranked so a lot of top players aren’t playing anymore. eternus 6 used to have 13 players (including me) in NA and now there are two. it’s just not super fun to grind for nothing, on top of pretty bad matchmaking tbh. just my perspective tho
😂
Nope he salty
Yes lol but chances are it'd be shorter since it's harder to see these types of issues if you're at the very top
The first thing you mentioned explains why the matchmaking feels so weird. I never understood how you can have in your team ppl who get 1 dead per minute.
I came from League where not only micro is important, but if you have a good macro understanding is quite easy to win, the same goes for Deadlock, is easy to see that a play is not going to be good if you start a fight 3V5 or even 5V6, this is absolutely coin flip, and you can lose your game, but since Deadlock is a mix of MOBA and shooter, you get into matches where some guys only want to fight, or you have a PVE seven who farms 40k souls but does absolutely nothing in team fights, and the matchmaking keeps putting you with these random players, there is no consistency, no nothing.
I got one rank in week 1, went to a higher position in week 2 and then dropped 3 positions yesterday so what is the point here?
I also noticed as you mentioned that If you play heroes with lots of AOE, or maybe an Infernus/Mirage with ricochet where you can spread damage all around you easily can level up, so is quite clear that higher ranks doesn't translate in better players, it's always a surprise, every match.
In the first 10 minutes you can exactly feel how the match is going to be and how people play.
Also, in League for example if you play well you can carry your team, and still win, in Deadlock it's almost impossible to carry alone.
I was going crazy when I didn't see a change in my ranked lobby elos playing 20 games with a 80-90% wr
played 20 games
got exact same rank
feels bad man
same bruh, during the first week i only played 7 games and they went horrible. In this week i played 20 games and won 13/20 and played decent ig, not carrying or anything but still way better than first week but still got the same rank.
I got same rank after having won 7/10 games
I’ve experienced that if I play well in a loss, I play with higher ranked players the next game. (I was oracle 1 playing with phantom 1-3) If I then play bad or even average in a win I again play with my rank now being oracle 4 but yea, no phantom players. With this logic am I supposed to get high damage and KDA just to throw the game? It feels really weird right now.
This is how it used to work in CSGO as well. Idk how it is in premier in CS2 now.
i felt this too
So needed video. But people will still say "ItS jUsT AlPhA bRO". It is alpha but like Ottr said, not criticising is not improving. Game is made better then most released games and has already big player base. However, like you said. Thats literally the worst ranked system i have ever seen. Like, they had 2 good options. Before someone will say there is no mmr and neekos doesnt work. They fkin do. Game has its own mmr count, thats why neekoscores are fine, they are just counted in their own way which still makes it similar with valves "hidden mmr". One option and the best is that everyone starts from 0 mmr and it would be fine, people would finally climb where they supposed to. 2nd option is that if we start playing rankeds from our normal matches mmr, it should add your win/lose from that point. Meanwhile, and that just 1 example. I was playing week1 on 2.5k mmr and had 60% wr. Then a viewer from tiktok dms me and says that he made new account. He was playing on max 2000 mmr (and thats latest games, he stared way lower) That wont be nice, but he was not even that good. He was playing normals on his main account on 1800mmr. Guess what, after first rank distribution, just in 1 day he gets higher rank then me, and he played vs bots and his mmr grows from 2000 to 2500 just like that because he was placed too high. So people like me played vs really good people, but people with high wr while playing vs bots are still placed higher. And my mmr on rankeds was growing everyday, i can literally say that there is huge difference between 2300 2400 and 2500mmr matches. Another thing is that performance data is not working as it supposed to. Quick example, can show a Dynamo player with 65% wr in eternus. Logically, he plays support he doesnt have too much kills and dmg. He deranked 2 ranks. WITH 65% WR thats insane. And i know fiev examples from dynamo players just like that. The fact that you play 7 days without any info whats happening with you is bullshit aswell. Some games because of draft are literally lost while you zip to lane. Without drafts picks its just 50/50 who gets better draft when you play vs better people.
I don't think you know what being in alpha means. Just because a game has a large playerbase and is made well does not make it not in alpha.
The devs literally said when ranked was released that it was just to test it's functionalities out before the actual release.
This can all be helped by NOT TAKING A GAME THAT IS NOT FINISHED SERIOUSLY.
@@Daedric_4E201 I disagree. If you don't care about game and don't take it seriously you cannot make good criticism against it because why would you even care at that point. He has good points, if top player constantly wins but plays as support yet is deranked, why bother? It's not like this game is made by some new devs with zero experience. It should be made from scratch that if you put effort, do well be it support your team or get kills, you should be rewarded not punished even if you lose games at that point.
@@Daedric_4E201 dude, that the last thing i thought i would need to explain to anyone. I know game is in alpha, but like Ottr said that doesnt change shit. Not criticising is not improving. I take it seriously because i want it to suceed. (I edited just for you)
Theres also 1 more thing. People starting to play rankeds, that are currently unranked, are being placed in ascendand/eternus lobbies. How does that end? During first 2 weeks i had like max 3-4 raqeuits in my or enem team combined. ONLY this week i had 14 ragequits. Guess what, most of them were unrankeds placed too high (the rest just Haze players :D), doing 0/10 and 2k dmg in 20 minutes then leaving. Can i blame them? Yes and no, its game fault that new players just because they won some games are being placed so high in rankeds. Show me one game, where you, without rank are placed in last 2 ranks of the game. If you check the graphs from lets say Lol, Valorant and Deadlock, then Deadlock looks the same, just the other way. Like how on earth so many people may be in last 4 ranks, meanwhile in lol there is barely 3% player base.
From many friends that play Deadlock, most of them quit for now, because ranked sucks and they had no fun, its already been 3 weeks, and we had no update on anything in rankeds, so i understand them, because i also have less fun every week. I dont think that allowing us to know how we progress every match is a thing that will change anything in their data collecting nor it will stop their work on it.
You missed the easy solution... just put a seperate group MMR for a player.
Or use trueskill, you can accurately measure players in squads, and they, on average, do better in a squad and you can calculate it pretty accurately.
While there are a lot of variable. Performance based system is necessary in competitive moba games. One bad player can cause huge difference. Based on dota, different ranks play game differently. Being above a certain rank and playing the ranked game which is below your skill level doesn't mean you have better odds of winning, it might be contrary because decision making is different. For example: maybe you are high skill player who plays niche and demanding hero that does well in high tier lobbies because you execute certain strategy and play smart. All of it will fall apart because lower tier lobby play is different. Lower tier lobby players will initiate team fights that shouldn't be initiated and its sadly, it will cause you the game unless you are able to become as bad as they are in a certain sense. Yes deadlock is a shooter but you can't outshoot other players like you can in Apex or CS or any other shooter. Its different.
Thank you for verbalizing my feelings
this is what ive been saying for so long. i got archon because i used to not take qp seriously and do troll builds with friends. over the 3 weeks of ranked ive had over 65% winrate and still im in archon. its p much impossible to climb even if u win all ur games. if i had known my unranked qp hidden mmr was taken into account for ranked, i wouldve tryharded in qp
I have 2 accounts. I created an alt to practice heroes I'm bad at to not affect my game quality on my main when I play with my higher ranked friends.
Guess which one is 2 ranks above(Not subranks, 2 whole ranks)
It'd roughly take 100 games to even come close. I could just start a new account and do half the games and probably end up Eternus.
Just wanted to say that it's almost guaranteed a draft is coming at some point. No matter how much you want to push aside the pre-alpha state, it's perfectly reasonable the first pass at ranked is not a draft.
My biggest gripe is the painfully inconsistent MMing ping-ponging between balanced, being down 40k souls by 15 mins, and easily rolling them.
won and dominated most of my games i moved from archon 5 to 6... Its giving me apex solo gated climb
I won most of my games and went from Oracle 1 to Archon 6, lmao.
@@sc065 no way!
i started playing pretty late into beta but i went 15-4 in second week of ranked and only went phantom5 to 6... lmao..
You should provide your feedback in the official Deadlock feedback forums. There are ways that Valve could detect if someone was being carried or not, if they wanted to make a ranked system that considers more than just wins and losses.
But the thing is, in order to make a ranked system like that Valve would need to keep it secret due to the risk of abuse.
50/50 match making is the ony bad take. Its just math bro. When you get to your rank thats just what happens.
It's possible that it's skill issue but I've played a lot of different games and you'll see 50-50 mm in one way shape or form in most of them. My issue that maybe wasn't clear in the video is that In deadlock, the difference between the 50-50 wins and losses is far more noticeable than any other that I've played
@shamefuldisplay9692 The problem is when you get to that point nearly every match is either your team steamrolling or the enemy team steamrolling, very rarely an actual even match, which begs the question of whether the game really is matching you with similarly skilled players or not, because if it is there shouldn't be a lot of steamrolling to begin with, at least one would think. That's without even going into the hero lineup matchmaking.
Yep I agree, same thing with all the people complaning that a "losers queue" exists just because they keep losing games due to teammates. Like literally in any moba game you can make a strategic call that can turn the tides of the game, its all about being consistent and learn to play. I'm currently 19 W 1 L in my last 20 normal games (high ascendant lobbies) and even if we got stomped in some of those eventually all it takes is good shotcalling and gameplan to win it back.
I think people expect more from the ranked system this early on because this game is already more polished than some AAA games in its closed alpha
As a CS player this isn’t shocking news valve are awful at handling their ranked multiplayer right now
the modern dota2 matchmaking is good.
This makes so much sense. I won all my ranked games last week and got ritualist, which makes no sesne to me. But when you combine normal play it makes sense. Since I just normal with heroes I am bad with or try out new builds, nothing serious.
They could just make performance based for the lower tier ranks and remove this performance for the higher tiers. Since these metrics probability becomes less accurate as skill of player increases.
Question is now: after you’ve gotten your rank and is grinding ranked, are qp matches still affecting your hidden mmr?
Cause atm I dont even wanna play qp and try out new heroes and build incase it tanks my mmr hard
i disagree with the predetermined rank thing, yes it’s ofc somewhat based on ur initial mmr as it is in all games, but the main issue imo is the insane performance based focus of the ranked system. that’s the main explanation as to why lefaa made eternus 6, he is an insane player and always puts up numbers so he places high regardless of winrate.
Like ppl said, report your match ID in the official forums (not steam). They're active there and pay attention.
The game is in early closed test
Agree with what you said, but I'm sure the ranked was a quick and dirty throw in just to put 'similar' level players together, so they can use the stats to focus on development, character creation and a general game balance. 90% of the game at the moment is balance patching, so I assume it's to put players in rough brackets to assist that.
I assume a better interpretation of ranked will come further down the line with more refinement but I imagine that is very low on their priorities right now.
This is the first time I've played a game, sat down and gone through my routine of looking at replays/vods and asking myself "what can *I* do better" and a lot of the time, I genuinely don't know, like my build is fine, because I'm personally doing just fine, but I don't know how to bring my team up, funnily enough I main Ivy and one of her voice lines is literally "you can make opportunities, but you can't make people take them" and that's how it feels like the amount of times I give my opponent healing rite, only for them rush back into battle and get it cancelled is so frustrating or the amount of times, I stun/slow someone with a teammate nearby and I will even say "stunning/slowijng" and they just don't help me, I feel so bad for dynamo players because they will call their ult mid team fight and outside of me and one other person maybe, everybody just fucks off and then dynamo dies bc they put their neck out there for awful teammates
You know when a player has been reduced to calling their teammates "opponents" in their youtube comments that things aren't going well.
@@cyniclewhat?
not counting games with leavers is a terrible idea because it would lead to people trying to get underperforming players to leave
Who cares, if I have a leaver, I dont want it to count.
So I will share my experience as an ascendant 5 ranked EU (eastern Europe) player.
At around 10 minutes there is talks about toxicity. Is there toxicity in DL yes there is, but it's way lower than what is in cs for example, and I honestly don't find toxicity a problem I feel like it's at a normal number.
As for cheaters, I have found only 3 blatant cheaters in 300 hours.
Regarding 50/50 mm, I don't find that game tried to get you a win and then a loss. I find that on some days the game just hates me and other days the game gives me free wins. For example I had a really bad record in unranked and went on like a decent loss streak over a few days, but when I got into ranked I went 9 - 1 and at the end of the week went up a rank (asc 4 -> 5) despite losing a ton of games in unranked. So I believe that's it's basically random and just a coinflip
Did you completely quit The Finals?
OMG the 50 50 matchmaking drove me mad recently i had a 14 game win streak and then went on a 11 game losing streak to then go 2 losses 1 win until rank calc. 14 wins to - 15 loses
This game will see multiple iterations of the ranked system before it even hits 1.0. Not worried
IMO I wish more games would adopt League's ranked system.
I respect the amount of work that you put into the essay and there are things that I would totally agree with you upon, but also there are points that I find really questionable.
I suppose that the invidivual metrics systems were introduced as an intent to calculate your individual impact on the game just for the reasons that you described in the end of the video - your team has some random foreigners that do not communicate and/or there is a leaver/cheater/griefer. In such a chaotic team dynamics that valve cannot really control (hopefully for now) it is quite unreasonable to count your mmr based on if you won or not. So they are trying to implement systems that would count your indvidual impact on the game rather than you just being unlucky with a bad team or you being carried by good teammates. Yes, the current iteration of said systems might not be very accurate right now, but seeing the tendency of the development course of the game I have very high hopes that eventually the dev team will find just the right setup to accurately calculate your rank.
Void the match results if there´s a leaver on your team? Oh man that would be abused waaaaaaaay too harder than the system´s being abused right now. If you realize your team is losing you just pick an escape goat from your team who abandons the game and the whole team doesnt get minus points.
Matchmaking trying to rig your games?.. Sir that´s just kind of victim mentality that you can see people pick up on in any multiplayer game with matchmaking system. (Also I cant think of any game that has really good and 100% accurate MM system, so it´s safe to assume that reaching that level is pretty damn difficult if not impossible with the endless amount of factors that developers have to take into account)
Anyways, it is most likely that the dev team has way more knowledge and experience in building such a complicated system than you, me, or anyone in the section comments. And props to the devs for making the game´s development somewhat transparent, allowing players to participate in the process and share their opinions, rather than just rolling out a version of the game without willing to recieve any feedback. I believe this game has a long-going future and currently is just in it´s infancy period, so personally I would abstain from making any kind of big statements that THE RANKED SYSTEM IS STRAIGHT BAD AND BROKEN or anything like that. Let them cook. They will do the right thing. At least I hope so. Cheers!
I don't know how accurate the different ELO trackers are in this game but I tried looking at a few of my games on tracklock and if it's anywhere near accurate then this game is doomed... One of the games I looked at my team had someone leave a few minutes in after getting farmed in lane. Like no joke, they had 3.7K souls, 0 kills, 0 assists, and 6 deaths with a mere 136 hero damage and 13 objective damage...
That same game I had the highest Hero damage in the game at 31K with 10 kills, 6 deaths and 7 assist... Now Here's what made me lose all faith in tracklock, because according to their site the teammate who left, not only got a higher match rating than I, but was tied for the highest match rating in the whole lobby!
I can't even fathom a reality in which you have any sort of a MMR system that would give that result? Like literally every single person in the game outperformed him in literally every single statistic that you could possibly track. Yet somehow this guy get's tied for the highest match rating score? How?
is good to generate discussion around an early alpha, literally we are play testers lol. good video bro
Just got 50 games played, is it worth it chat?
I’m enjoying the coordination in my ranked games. You can also participate in Hero Labs now.
tbh i dont feel any difference between ranked or normal, i play ranked to try hard and climb but the games are the same quality as normals which i mostly play since i work in the afternoon so i usaly cant play during the ranked window but when i find the time, like on the weekend, its just the same quality there is like no difference and there for no reason to play one over the other just play what gives you faster ques right now
if you void the game for the leavers team someone can just leave everytime theyre gonna lose and just never have a loss. thatll just lead to more abuse.
I was archon 6 after my first ranked week, and on my second week I had an amazing win streak, ended with 13 wins and 3 losses, after all that I climbed to oracle 4. Not sure if this is really how it's supposed to go and I should be happy that I climbed, but I felt kinda disappointed because I really believed that I'd be at least phantom, since the vast majority of my team mates and opponents are phantom or low ascendant.
There is no performance based matchmaking in this game so the point about losing harder is not applicable. Also voiding MMR gain / loss if someone leaves would be an insanely bad system due to massive abuse potential and as a toxicity catalyst.
Hey, take a look at the numbers on Tracklock for the number of players who are in each rank. Numbers of Eternus, Ascendant, Phantom and oracle have dropped significantly since week 1. Lots of people who were boosted are getting tanked.
Hey man. Idk how Tracklock works but when i look at my "account" last match that was tracked was 14 days ago . Is it working properly or i miss something. Thx
I'd argue this ranked system isn't perfect, but still one of the best across all competitive games already. If you look at League, Dota, CS, and even battle royal games like Apex, this is already the best one.
HOW WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO RANK A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT ARE RAPIDLY CHANGING THEIR SKILL LEVEL AT DIFFERENT RATES... FFS PEOPLE
Goddanm, that is a pre alpha game. And all the solutions you've have presente have exploits in it. You cant't void a match because somebody left because, then every match will end with someone leaving when the lost match is near.
And the numbers they track are not cumulative, it is a delta of the whole data. There is no sense in charting how much damage you do and rank accordingly. You must compare between the highest numbers and see who does it best. If every body is fighting and the numbers are crazy high makes no difference, because who have skill will have better deltas than those who don't.
As far as I know, hidden mmr is calculated with a complex algorithm that analyzes yor souls per minits, accuracy, damage, in-game decisions and stuff. So if you play in a pack in pubs, and you get carried, your mmr will be the one the algo considers considering your performance. Wins do not count as much as in other games. Said that, the thing that this is done with pubs is bs, pubs are for having fun, testing stuff, chilling and sometimes playhard, it is bad design to consider these ase ranked
ranked is completely broken, due to boosting, etc, matches become so polarized and since it's a 6v6,, moba, etc, your individual contribution is so small (even smaller on some heroes) that you can't really carry your team most of the time. The game has way too many people that should be 3-4 ranks lower than they are. This + bad rng draft is just automatic loss most of the time.
How do you know people are getting boosted? How is valve supposed to even do anything about that vs other comp games
another potential fix for the draft of heros is including a role que like overwatch, Haze being Assassin etc.
Ranked system is working perfectly fine. The better you are, the higher your rank is. How do I know this? I play a lot of this game, every ranked week so far I've had over 50 ranked games played, with multiple unranked in between. First week I placed Ascendant I, which I was happy with, although I knew I could do better. Second week of ranked my record was 27 Wins, 23 Loses, ranked up to Ascendant III, last week I went 26 Wins, 24 Loses, ranked up to Ascendant V. So as you can see, I dont have a crazy win rate when it comes to games, but the one thing I do have is a good performance in all of my games. Im not trying to sound like a douchebag and brag about how good of a player I am, but I pretty much carry 70% of my games, and that kind of proves to me, that your own performance matters when it comes to rank ups. How else would I go from Ascendant III to V with 26W 24L ratio?
it's more about the volume of games someone with 90% wr 30 games will not outrank someone with 300 games 50% wr
the ranked system is much more performance based than he implies/thinks, so if you play well u will rank up even if u don’t win most of the time
thats why literal toddlers are in phantom lobbies right
@@UnSven thats due to the current distribution, such a large amount of players are in asc/phantom that the skill range varies immensely. or it could also be that ur one of those players that likes to blame their team
Nah, everything except for not being able to pick heroes works fine but I am sure it will be resolved as soon as the game will have more heroes.
Regarding the part about not tracking rank in unranked games would make game very imbalanced and unplayable for not so skilled players because not all good players play unranked just to play fun builds, some just love winning so it will just bring more toxicity and chaos into both ranked and unranked games.
After the release of Ranked they match unranked games a lot more loose in terms of MMR which was just an absolutely terrible experience for everyone.
It IS a pre-alpha game though. What are we realistically expecting here?
If you care about your rank right now, you're WAY off the mark. The incentive to keep playing is YOU ARE ABLE TO PLAY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I get voicing your opinion on it, and that's fair but so many people are posting saying they're feeling bummed out and sad about grinding for a rank??? That seems like a fool's errand. If the game stops being fun, stop. Stop demanding stuff that simply won't be even possible yet, let alone likely to happen any time soon. Let Valve cook, and be patient.
I don't fully believe about the party system. I always play with my friends 3-6 stack every single game. I'm a dynamo main so I eventually get the lowest dmg cause I build towards ult every time. I have the highest assist because I usually land some good ults by hiding most of the time and timing a good ult. I made a few game changing ults from time to time too. So I wasn't exactly being "carried" by my friends all the time just because I'm a support.
However, whenever I queue with my friends, the party shows that there is a wide skill range.
I haven't got my rank but I bet I'm very far away from their rank.
Yeah the amount of toxicity in a litteral playtest is shocking to me and I am not easily shocked. It's a shame cause it's such a great game and realistically I don't know what Valve can do about it, the commend system was a good idea but it doesn't seem to have made a difference. I don't know if this is a problem at higher level too, probably not as bad.
"yamato is useless early and needs to farm for late game"
based ascendant opinion... Yikes.
The last criticisms I think are the more relevant. Performance based and big ranking variations. I personally suffer with performance based a lot. My stats in most games are very low but I have big win rates. Was Immortal on dota 2 (like eternus). I just win doing what I think it's best. If it's performance based I just feel like picking haze and going afk.
The fast transition to higher ranks or lower to see if you carry is also very weird. I play a game imagining that I have a certain level of players, so I don't pick haze and afk farm for example. But end up with horrible people and regret winning other peoples lanes instead of farming.
I'm etternus 1 if I try to que qp with my etternus /ascendant 6 friends on main it will not let us que and just say too many hogh mmr players so we have to smurf to play together outside of scrims
Had to lane against a vindicta yesterday that was probably a cheater, around phantom mmr. The guy was stealing every single orb immediatly, never seen anything like it, couldn't deny orbs from him even when i was way closer to creeps. Still ended up winning the game thankfully, but lane was annoying as hell.
FINALLY a cc that agrees with me that this ranked is awful
Well what do you expect in a "still under development" game..., think it's a game that is still in Active Development, you seriously can't expect everything to be inny binny perfectly made like hoodini
The QP to ranked MMR thing can be solved quite easily by only letting solo QP affect your solo MMR that is taken into account for ranked.
I'm sure (unfortunately) that there will be duo ranked at some point which is also a massive advantage over solo so I hope they will just be kept separate queue wise and mmr wise. Forever.
Ranked has plenty of issues but unranked play is FAR worse and makes me want to quit the game. Constantly games with and against premades with their trash friends and no communication to the solo players on the team. It's not even fun, the games aren't winnable or if you get the better stack, you can't lose even if you'd afk in spawn.
"Worst ranked system in competitive history."
You must've never played Guilty Gear Strive.
I completely disagree with your opinion, the rating should be based on your performance
I hope they gatherings some stats for determine rank
Like getting hit and stun
In deadlock cc is huge deal and tanker is also a role that everyone forgot
Yeah they might not have healing stats more than some character like lady geist or infernus
But they sustain that tank every skill that enemy throw to them making team win easier
Thats why you play ranked and rank up into your real rank
I dont know if youve ever played a competitive game but qp mmr transferring over is very common
I agree, there is 0 explanation as to how you rank up. it can't be, I repeat it can not be solely based on winning. I call BS to anyone that makes that claim, I went 9-2 for my first ranked qualifiers and got ranked the rank above initiate(cant remember the name). I see other YT's with far lower win/loss ratio that got ranked in the top 2 ranks. no f'n way.. maybe it goes off of K/D ? mine isn't that great as I play aggressive and die a lot but also get a lot of kills. its common for me to have 15-10 k/d games so that might be why?
I know it's alpha, but I'm kinda disgusted to see this "confirmed".
I've spent hours and hours testing builds in quick play. I performed horribly bad trying to come up with ideas because I don't want to just copy/paste public builds.
Ended up Initiate no matter what I do. Quality of the games js abysmal. It's not even about win/lose, it just feels bad playing with people who don't even understand the base gameplay.
My bud n me played together most of the quickplay matches, yet there was a skill gap between us. Now I don't now what specific rank he ended up, but he said those were so easy matches etc. Me on the other hand went straight to archon and the matches were rather tough. So it would make sense with the hidden MMR
You are sick. It's alpha. We are testers.
The abondon game not to count is kinda bs, last game i had a leaver in my team we just full force and crushed our enemies until they started leaving and we won. Maybe give the team that has the first leaver less mmr loss and more mmr gain?
800 hours wasted phantom VI noname low skill justifies that the first implementation of ranked in an early development project is at fault OMEGALUL
@ottr In cesual I was mostly playing around 2000 lobbies and mostly with friends, so I was surpriesed when I first tried ranked that I got matched with even higher elo (2100-2200) so around phantom level. Then I was surprised again when despite having good placement matches, having won 6 out of 7, I've got placed only in archon V (1600mmr). Im not sure why I was placed so low, so I think there is something else to it?
If you have high mmr 6 stack it just straight up says you have too many high mmr acc0int so we have to hop on smurfs to play up with my high elo friends
need to concider that before everyone could get hands on a game deadlock peaked 1-3k players daily all the sudden we at 150k+ couple days so in general quality of games have dropped drasticly that doesnt mean much but still get my point its ez to get ur mmr to 2k+ and u literally be playing people like lystic and stuff even tho they at 3k game is going to be worse in terms of ranked as soon its public test so many new players will come need some time to settle in general the lower elo u are more likely u get impacted by that
i was playing like 20 games per rank update and still end being archon V even if i win ALMOST EVERY game carrying
It's... An Alpha game... It's nowhere near finishing...
Why not post these suggestions on the forums instead of whining about a game that’s not even close to being fully released
Wait kills/damage affect your rank too, beyond just your win/losses? I need to see some evidence for this, not to doubt but it seems like a huge deal. If it's true, I'm no longer an Ivy main. She can do buttloads of damage/kills with some builds no doubt, but I like playing her supporty too.
No, it is a common misconception by people who can't read what valve actually wrote about the topic.
@@AureaPersona Huh, hope so. Certainly wouldn't make sense for that to be hidden knowledge.
well the matchmaking heroes sucks so bad... you can have all the squishy team against all the tanky team which is so hard to play with noobs who doesnt understand that some hero need more farm before getting owning while some can go crazy from early on.. and they play it like counter strike! "bro as long as im headshoting they dead!"
Is there a problem with players being in higher/lower ranks than they should?
yeah duh, Imagine you playing normal game in Alchemist elo and you suddenly get pwned by some dude who belong in Ascendant playing lash and roaming every 1 minutes. By 10 minutes he already at 13/1/5
@ananda_adi i wouldn't mind
@ good for you
Well said , this is basically why I stopped playing for some time now.....they should pls reset everyone's mmr..I stomp at the rank I'm now like 20 + kills every other game and then still lose some of them because of a DC or new player trying ranked ...how the F can I still be the same rank, why do I get punished by pub (mmr) and so hard for losing if its not even my fault ....q solo ranked = nightmare...and makes we want to stop..I do love the game itself so much think its awesome, but if pub(normal) games mmr have such an influence on ranked why even play...sorry its of my chest now just wanted to put it out there...peace
Started DL not long before week 1 of ranked it’s now the end of week 3 and I only have 200 hours currently. after playing with friends that don’t play shooters and other friends that don’t play mobas. I can for sure say my mmr took a hit, going into ranked with the hopes that it was going to calculate all my games based on how I played gave me hope for ranked after going 8 - 13 on week 1 I placed ritualist 1. I didn’t think to much about it I was bummed but I noticed something in week 2 that when I hit esc to look at ranks my rank was rising game to game like it was calculating my rank live hmmm? WEIRD?? I thought they weren’t doing that after they patched it I noticed the games I got into had emissary 5-6 and archon 1-4. after dominating week 2 with 20 wins and 8 loses I was really looking forward to just getting placed into archon maybe oracle… nope I got emissary 2. week 3 was a busy week for me I only played 11 games only losing 2 games mostly archons in my games even tho I’m emissary which is fine again I want to play against better people and rank up faster but even with that I only go to emissary 5. in the short of it I think it’s all based on mmr and doesn’t give anyone large jumps even if you play above your current rank
To add to this. at this point I’d like it to just calculate ranks game to game so I don’t have to grind for the week and just see my downfall or my rise
To add on again since I just got to 13:31 in the video I hope obj damage weighs more in the future either as much as damage or even more than damage I’m definitely an obj player and usually find myself getting 20-30k obj damage vs my 15k-40k player damage depending the game. It’s not that I don’t help the team and I’m never there but I find it better to get my team flex slots so they can keep doing damage vs trying to fight 6v6 and not get anything out of it
i feel like the simplistic solution to the first issue is just have a LARGE amount of initial ranked placement games
10 in any game is never enough
currently with the system it’s “60” games to get your end rank the 50 qp then the ten ranked
it should just be play your qp that gives a SMALL estimate as to your skill but would only bump you marginally above or below the bell curve then your placements begin to take place and that’s where you start going against people who also want the ranked grind
doing 20+ placements might be disheartening at first but it’s for the matchmakers sake especially in its testing era
Stats based rank system is dumb AF, the developer doesn't and can't account for everything a player is doing and going to do to win the game, says 0/13/(*) support in dota2 who just dies a lot attracting enemy attention to make space, I know someone who got immortal doing this in dota, come on.
i feel like your ideal match making would be aids. no hidden mmr and no performaned based mm? like 90% of the games would be stomps
I also wonder if playing only 7 games is enough. Like I've seen people on phantom play only 7 and rank up while I play like 20 games and rank up just a little. I also don't really understand whats the point of the ranks if most matches will be (2-3 People of the same rank as you and 3-4 unraked people) Why not play the same ranks?!
i dont think your solution would really work on a game like deadlock in apex its not as bad if u start at the very beginning because its a br. in a 6v6 the start of the rank experience would be so terrible if your new/ bad at the game.
the unranked new player experience isnt too bad because you only get matchmade with other players with new accounts. but if you put together all the players who havent played ranked or calibrated the skill gap would be massive and borderline unplayable for lower ranked players.
valorant rank system also works this way but is less of a problem because its not solo q only.
i think a better way is just to take party wins before your first ranked game with a grain of salt and mostly estimate mmr based off your solo q pub games
Don't call out Deathy, his premade will destroy you xD
like no joke, I was toying with support vindicta for quite long time right before ranked came out, I was winning lots of game but my neko went down like hell. Now I know why and my initial rank got hurt a lot because of it. I def quitting this game until they fix these things, I climbed the rank a lot since the inital, but I had to play the way the AI ML model lord is telling me to, WTF
You’re playtesting deadlock it’s not out yet it’s not supposed to be perfect that’s why you have to be invited to play…
Ima say it it's broken I solo queue all my games and I'm oracle and I got no idea what I'm doing I don't deserve it tbh
I feel like people are forgetting that this game is still in early development. The system was released because they are testing things. The algo changes several times a week. It is not done. Sometimes a bug happens, other times they are changing a couple values drastically to see how it affects match quality. Hell, they are still testing what people think is a good match. That includes match length.
Do people want more even games that run longer?
Or do they prefer shorter games that will almost certainly be decided earlier?
Do people enjoy stomps when they are doing to the stomping?
When should a comeback still be possible?
When your team is owning for the first 15 minutes, should the other team be able to catch up while avoiding fights?
Is it frustrating to know that the urn is currently such a clear catch-up mechanic that reduces risks for the losing team?
How much should early kills matter and how much should killing enemies on a kill-streak matter?
All of these questions are STILL being answered. So yeah, there will be some days or even weeks where the matchmaking feels off TO YOU while others are having the time of their lives. The plan is to maximize the number of people having a good time but people on a losing streak will inevitably blame matchmaking.
This game is simply not ready to be treated as your main MMR grind. You are a tester of an unfinished matching-feature, not a customer of a finished product.
Feedback is welcome but this "OMG IT IS A FAILURE WHY WOULD THEY SHIP IT LIKE THIS" Attitude has to go