Mach-E owner here. I agree with Kyle on some points relating to missing features like dog mode and charging speed on the display, but "price, styling, marketing" is NOT why we decided to buy one. It's because of the overall package of features, especially for someone who will own this as their only car. It's comfortable, has rear cross-traffic alerts, radar-based ADAS, Blue Cruise (which for us has worked great), dedicated buttons on the steering wheel for quick access to common functions, a quiet cabin, good build quality (we've had not a single squeak or rattle), wireless Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, SiriusXM radio, a guage cluster, a volume knob (these days that's rare), 1-pedal drive that you can turn on or completely off and is tied to profiles of each driver (so when you start the car it automatically sets your 1 pedal preference), memory heated seats, heated steering wheel, and a 360 top down camera that pops up automatically when in reverse or when getting too close to objects while going forward (which is amazing for parking lots and pulling in and out of my garage). No other EV in this segment has ALL of those things, and the Model Y has none of them. We don't care about DC charging speed as 95% of charging is at home. And performance is plenty for me, even as an EV and driving enthusiast. I usually only keep cars for 2-3 years and then move on to something else, but I like the Mach-E so much I bought it out and am keeping it for the foreseeable future because there's nothing else on the market in this price range that meets all of my needs.
Completely agree. I’m on my 2nd Mach E and I absolutely love the car. It’s not perfect by any means, but it’s still super fun to drive. I agree that the software is laggy, but I think that’s a SYNC legacy. As I understand, the plan is to migrate to Android Automotive so I’m not surprised they’re not investing heavily in fixing the existing software platform.
@@KyleConner my fellow MME owners drive me up the wall with how content they are on the charging speeds. I only take 4-5 trips a year that require DCFC but that 45 mins to 80% is a painful eternity.
@@anthonyc8499 I hear you, but I rarely wait around for my Mach-E charge to 80%. I usually charge enough to get me to the next charger. Luckily so far that fits within going to the restroom and eating food at a restaurant or in the car. However, if I had to wait the full 45 mins to charge to 80% to make a long stretch to the next charger. That would be a bear.
@@jomuyo dude, that’s the thing! It takes 25 minutes to get like 90-100 miles of range back just to make it to the next charger. What SHOULD be happening is it takes 25 mins to get 150+ miles of range so we can skip over the next charger and get to the second charging station down the road. The GT has such short legs that a skip-stop strategy isn’t possible unless we stay for 45 mins. It’s just silly.
Props to you guys for asking the engineers these tough questions. There’s been a small group of us outspoken Mach-E GT owners who have been on the forums since the GT launched and we’ve been trying to get this feedback through to the engineers from day one (when we had to discover the power throttling issues on our own because Ford was so misleading with their marketing). Very frustrating to see that they still aren’t addressing such simple and easy to improve features. It’s good that someone in the automotive media is informed and willing to call them out on it.
I agree the GT variants are not the performance car that many were expecting. I wounder if this all stems from the Mach-E's origins. When it was initially a Ford Fusion type car, which was later revamped to something more "sexier" and performance orientated. Going from what Ford talked about the Mach-E when it was announced. I would say they were more focused on the handling side rather then the whole battery performance architecture of the car. Or they just didn't know any better and/or they were too prideful to see it. There were plenty of boastful tweets that Ford execs made that resulted in some karma blow back. Like comments made about glass roofs blowing off Teslas, which was followed by a recall on the early Mach-Es for a similar issue.
Mache owner for 2 years now (had 2022 model, now have 2023 model). Here's some response from me. Software/Lag on screen: Isn't a big deal. It's only REALLY slow for about 30 second when car starts up. Then it is fine. Unlike on a Tesla, you don't really need to use the screen for that much in 0:01 normal driving. Like really, how much are MachE owners digging down into the menus/settings of the car. Once it is setup then I basically just use it for Navigation which is quick enough. Sure, the functionality exposed to the user is way less than Tesla, but also it just works and is simple. That's half the reason people get iPhone instead of an Android phone, but still people flock to Apple devices like sheep to grass... Charge speed: Doesn't impact 90% of charging. Only about 10% of my miles come from road trips when I am not charging at home. That's about 5-8 DC charge sessions per year. Oh no, there goes about 1 hour of my time per year. What do Tesla owners do with that extra 3600 seconds annually? Styling: I dont see how anyone can disagree that MachE looks way better than Model Y, Ioniq 5, and EV6. BlueCruise never gets updated: This is true and a joke. Obviously something didn't work out as planned on Ford's backend. They want older cars to get updated to newer BC versions, and continue to promise it. Power reduction: Won't impact the average user. Most owners aren't going out and doing illegal things on the road. Generally you basically have to be doing illegal maneuvers or speeds to hit that limitation, even the 5 second one on older cars. Unless you to to track every day, but who does that?
I think this summarizes a lot of people's feelings. The power limits just aren't a thing for 99% of owners. It's a Mustang, but basically no one is buying it for it's raw performance. They'd almost always pick something else if that's what they care about.
In my case, I own the Bolt, Mach E and Tesla Y. The Mach E is my favorite daily driver because it is the most comfortable, has great range (at least in the summer), has android auto and looks the best. I rarely fast charge but if I need to I drive the Tesla. The slow software is a little annoying but it isn't that bad when you get used to it. I have a Ford dealer 2 blocks from my house so if something comes up they are there to service it and I can talk to a real person and Ford's CEO isn't a complete douche bag. A few other things I like better about the Mach E than the Tesla- the overhead camera view for parking, the ability to use basic cruise control without the adaptive part and the fact that the Ford is using radar instead of camera based cruise, the Ford has NEVER had phantom braking while the Tesla still does after 3 years. I can also use the cruise control when I'm driving toward the sun in the morning or afternoon while the Tesla freaks out because it can't see. The suspension is a little softer so the Ford is more comfortable. I wouldn't say I love the Mach E but it isn't as terrible on a daily basis as you make it sound. Ford could definitely improve it, and I wish they would, but all the EV's out there have their issues.
We have a Model Y long range and a Mach-E Premium Extended range. The Mach-E is a more comfortable ride and has great safety features. However software & phone as a Key is far behind Tesla and the charging curve is miserable, so its not great for road trips.
Mach-E owner and totally agree with the suggested enhancements. I love the car but do wish Ford would update the software with the features you described. Really hope you have Darren Palmer on the podcast to have an honest and open conversation about what’s going on with the software. Blue Cruise 1.4 was supposed to be out earlier this year via OTA and it’s been radio silence on that front.
I'm a MY23 Mach E owner and i agree with many of your points. I don't think the lack of updates are due to the current team's incompetence or being lazy. I feel they're generally handcuffed bc the lack of knowledge and experience from the original team building the Mach E. I'm sure the current team won't say that but they're stuck with a build that they can only improve on so much. The charging speed with the update is more acceptable vs the first model. For me i knew this was going to be limitation, but i weighed it against how often i would DCFC which is only 1-2 times per month. I wish they could push some update to improve the older models, but it's not going to ruin my experience when we have enough trouble with CCS reliability and having to spend 5-10 mins just to get off the highway to the charger. The styling, ride comfort and range were three of the larger factors for me. In my opinion it looks better than the competition. Then the ride has been comfortable anytime I'm driving around town or on road trips. I'm rarely flooring it, but it's got plenty of pickup for merging on the highway. Then blue cruise has been great for those longer highway drives. Plus the range of 270-280ish real world miles is enough where i can travel without worrying about DCFCing. Overall is the car perfect? Absolutely not. But it does everything i need well enough and i went into buying the car knowing at some point it will be a local driver.
Here in 2024, ANY perceptible software lag is simply unacceptable. At least I wouldn't put up with it. Not only should you not have the sensation of waiting, but you shouldn't even be able to see the transition of an operation. Obviously, this does not apply for things that are beyond the capability of the UI, such as response speed of a website, but the UI itself should never have visible lag.
@32:00 I would bet from the software engineer level, they ware working with what the upper management is giving them. They are being instructed to prioritize certain things or push them to certain releases (like the T3 release). But they are not a software company. They are not a rapid release company. They are a legacy car company and this rapid cycle is not their thing. They are doing what they can with what they have. Being a software developer I know that story all too well when you are not the project manager or upper level manager and have to convince them they are important.
@44:05 Well I would say Kyle not that owners don't care, but the design of the thing. If you don't road trip a lot we don't look at it that deep. As long as things are reasonable. I don't own one yet but decided I want that with the combination of all things considered.
"Am I out of touch? No, no, it's the customers who are wrong." You folks seem to put BIG priority on things I just don't care about and none on the things that I do. 0-60 times, track performance? Could not care less. I like the fact that it has a real instrument cluster in front of the driver, turn signal/control stalks and at least some other physical controls. That alone gives it a huge advantage over Model Y in my books no matter how fast its screen responds. I'm also not one to constantly paw at the screen. Once the temperature is set and Spotify is running, I'll very likely never touch it for the duration. Fast charging is fine for the 1% of the times I'll use it. The Ionic 5 and EV6 are fine, but if you think getting warranty repairs are difficult from Ford, they're on a whole other level. For me, its down to the ID4 and Mustang in this category.
I have a rant, but I have to say it: First of all, I've been driving a while, and have driven what I'd consider a fair mix of cars. I also owned some descent sporty cars, and some crappy cars. Right now, I own a Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited, and I'll comback to that car. I've drive sporty cars like a Subaru BRZ and Nissan 370Z NISMO, driven Audi RS6, BMW M5 and many 3 series, Driven an Impreza WRX STI in a trip from Anchorage to Fairbanks in Alaska, and Driven a Jeep Wrangler 4xe from Salt Lake City to Alaska. Owned Hybrid, DIesels, Plug-in-hybrid, and EVs, Trucks (Both EV, hybrid F-150 Powerboost, and regular ICE), and Yeah, I also ride Dirt bikes and sport bikes. And have test drive Teslas, Shortly owned a Model Y (HUGE REGRET), and had an F-150 Lightning that I made a good profit with (I was planning to keep it, but I got offered a lot of money at the time). Almost bought a Rivian R1T and R1S, OPting instead to buy a PHEV Outlander for my parents to drive because either the Ioniq 5 or the Rivian would have been a bit too complicated for them, and they were reluctant to drive EV even though I daily drive one myself. A lot of the complains you have about the Mach-E are valid, and Ford could have gotten the stuff on the video Kyle made, and made Kyle's dream car, but they made instead an affordable car for the masses. NOt another Taycan, or etron, or Hyundai Ioniq 5 N... Not everyone demands performance like Kyle does in corners and canyon, and car makers make wallowy boat like cars that people find confortable in pot-holled highways, and city/town roads. If you look at the cars people drive aroun you, like some bouncy jeeps and pick up trucks, well. I mean, I know you've driven a Jeep wrangler on a highway (Saw you 4xe review). I was okay with 4xe, though I admit, driving down a highway to moab it was like a kid playing with a toy steering wheel, but once I started to rock-crawl, that car was perfect. Basically, I think Ford coul dhave made a more expensive Mustang, but it would not start at $40K, and the highest trim would be WAY higher than $60K. You love Porsche Taycan, I know, but that car is how much? $100K, more? How much is an Used Audi etron? not less that much less than a Mach-E, and then you run into other troubles. and as far as comparing Mach-E to etron, I remember looking at the price of getting an etron before the bug hit us in 2020 (January of 2020) and saw it would have cost me from $70 to $80k for one, and the new one is about the same now? Hyundai & Kia sell their car at prices a bit more expensive than Mach-E (though they are excelent cars, I paid over $60K for a Limited AWD Ioniq 5 about a year ago or two years ago now). So, I think Ford did something good that most people will LOVE, maybe not enthusiast (except for the Rally). Those who can afford to buy a Taycan or etron GT, or Kia GT or Hyundai N car, go for it, you'll love those cars too. THose who like the lack of buttons in a Model3/Y/S/X, but are okay with having other issues (like Kyle's Model S Plaid...) and build quality I question... That is fine too. I know there are good Teslas (mine was crap), just like I'm sure Mach-Es and Ioniq 5 may have a Lemon or two. But for most people, especially those coming to a Mach-E from a old Ford Taurus, Camry, Accord, Sonata, or even stuff like Expeditions, explorers, etc, they may think it is such an upgrade! I know Kyle loves Escalades, well, I think they may be fast, but are crap when it comes to driving dynamics. SO, Kyle and Jordan may not like a start button or the chimes of the Mach-E, and that is fine, they can hate that, but I feel that, based on reviews I see from the channel, and videos, you are holding this car to the standart of much more expensive cars. and you may find issues with the car yes, but not to Not recomend, and as you say, it is the 2nd most sold car on the sector, so, Yeah. I may be wrong about the Model Y (WHich I will argue sells because of the Supercharge network, NOT the built quality). and that brings me to why I am getting rid of my Hyundai: I bought a Model Y, had it fro 4 to 5 months, and hate it. Though the Supercharger network on roadtrips kind of ruined me. I traded the MOdel Y for a car I do love, my 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited AWD. Car has great feaatures, HDS2 is great, it is confortable, drives well, its fun, looks amazing (mine is lucid blue/black interior), its roomy, which is good because I often have 3 to 4 passengers, and I am inthe shipping business so I often make trips with the car loaded to UPS store and post office, so the size of the Ioniq 5 makes it reat for that. I really can't complain too much about the Ioniq 5's built quality, I think the recycled materials are nice, and the interior (while I like the EV6's interio better) it is an interesting looking place (in a good way) and I smile when I drive that car. I love that I can close the glass roof's shade, as where in Tesla/Mach-E need aftermarket shade. So, why am I selling this car and getting (likely) a Mach-E Rally? NACS... From what I read, it may not be until a year from now till I can get access to Superchargers, and for the amount of roadtrips I make, that is annoying, because, while my car has the capability to charge at 230+ kwh, 90% of my chargers are not faster than a Mustang Mach-E's 150kwh (and I seen 170 kwh on newer mustangs). Why? Because Electrify America, Chargepoint, and EV Go are not reliable. I have been stuck and had to cancel a trip when I had to spend a hoole night and most of a day in a hotel parking lont near green river when those chargers were all down. and they didn't show as down when I left on Plug Share or EA app. Having access to Superchargers is why I got a Tesla, though I hated the model Y (again, my hating the car was because it was problematic, with many many time spent at the service centry, and the struggles to get proper service jsut drov me mad at tesla, and haviing a car broken for 3 out of 5 months I owned it.. No... I just got rid of it). Hyundai, I havent had any serious problems. I did have to eventually replace my 12-volt battery, but Yeah, That was about it, and new tires because too many aggressive starts... But the fact that I'd be sitting for 30 minutes at a CCS charger , I rarely got the benefits of the 800 volt achitecture and the 230 kwh charge speed on my hyundai, and rarely was I at a charger for less than 20 to 30 minutes. So, when you look at that, a Mustang Mach-E is not bad. COnsidering a similarly speced Mach-E would have cost me about $10K less than I paid for the Hyundai, and I would be able to use NACS now (I know there are some wiring quality issues with Mustang, I'm wondering if they fixed those in 2024 model, but at this point, the longer range of the Premion extended AWD brought me in, the increase in range in the GT made me more interested (bbecause form Kyle's video, the Magna Ride suspension is worth it, and I wish it was optional on the Premium trim), but the Rally really spoke to me. Looks fun. You see, I do have another ford. I was waitng for PHEV that ford has been talking about, tu can't weaint, because I want to have an off road car to go to Moab with, and overlanding, and the Bronco Everglades hit the spot for me, and the Erruption green color is wonderful on that car. SO, I got a Bronco that also helps me to carry packages when they don't fit inside the Ioniq. And in road trips, I ICE more reliable than EV without NACS network. So, last few trips I took my Bronco out. (also, I do have friends in Alaska, since I lived in Fairbanks for several years, and like to be able to drive there, can't right now with EV). as for Bronco, now I hear PHEV based on 2.3L and motor like the Maveric or Explorer hav e(that 45kw or Hp, I forgot) may be out next year or late 2024 as a 2025 model, well, Darn, that would have been great, since I did like the 4xe wrangler, but that car wasn't perfect (too narrow for carrying 5 people). So, I haven't pulled the trigger on getting the Mustang Mach-E Rally, but I very likely may do that. Unless in next few days I hear I may have NACS adapter sonner than Summer 2025 for Hyundai.
I think money might be the problem. After the strike ended GM and Ford started making drastic cuts to make up for the billions that was lost due to the strike. Ask the engineer point blank this question. Did you go to your bosses and tell them "We need this amount to at least be as good as others in this segment". I suspect the answer is yes and the bean counters ultimately said no. These engineers aren't dummies. Gr8 vid as usual, guys. 🚗🇺🇸🔌⚡
Mach-E GT owner enthusiast here. There's a ton of reasons I got the MME over a Model Y, even knowing some of the limitations. Looks, interior, performance, build quality, safety systems, etc. BlueCruise 1.0 is OK, but definitely could use some updates. The infotainment works fine especially since CarPlay is my default anyways. What blows my mind are the other owners on the MME Forums. It's the owners who are content with 45 minute charging sessions that drive me crazy. Owners who don't care about zero charging info displayed inside the car. Owners who are cool with the GT falling on its face after 5 seconds. I am baffled by these people. I'd love for Kyle to get the owner he met onto the show as I bet there's a ton of great real world input they can provide and it's someone I could relate to!
Yeah the mach e forums are weird. I was helping my mom out with hers and was trying to figure out if I could change the display to show a power/regen graph (like almost all other EVs have) and when I asked about it online everyone was happy to tell me that not only did I not need that info but that I was crazy for even wanting it. I do like the car a lot and it’s similar to my id4, excellent overall package with lots of great features but with some baffling EV-related blindspots. At least the ID4 corrected most of them with the MY24. Hopefully Ford will come round eventually too.
Do you think the same could be said for the F150 lightning? In other words, could they do a lot better with that truck but they just aren’t for some reason?
I honestly think the Mach e is one of the better looking evs on the market. I could look past the screen ui because of CarPlay / android auto but I do wish charging would be hella improved.
Great episode, loved the rants!!! Couldn't agree more and definitely highlights the issues I've had with the Mach-E. Hope Ford gets them figured out to make it a more competitive vehicle.
I have a 2023.5 apparently and bought it when I understood it was a CUV and comfortable and NOT a sports car, the box checked when I finally decided on an EV instead of a low end ICE. Also, it is not a weird Tesla with no buttons and everything on the screen. To make up for the deficiencies noted is I have a scanner FOB and Car Scanner on a Utility phone instead of onboard data. Biggest complaint is highway speed rock damage but given the roads I drive, maybe you can see why Blue Cruise is pointless. I put mud flaps and wraps on it > better. It does Road Tripping OK and I’m not miling out my deleted Canyon Diesel which isn’t made anymore. It’s an awesome luxury commuter/rec vehicle with buttons. One comment. I have yet to see what I’m discovering for a mixed use case user like me is how to take advantage of L2 and Fast Charging. I’m learning that myself with cheap home L2 charging and expensive Fast Charging, the heat can be important where I am and maybe to buy a coffee and a 15 minute charge before parking outside at work with it. Also you forget the idea of leaving your annoying dealer network even if they are probably deserving of that. It’s someone to whine to in person.
Addressing Kyle’s confusion on why their test Lightning was still on BlueCruise 1.0 - Ford is really struggling to push BlueCruise OTA updates. They announced v1.3 to be coming to existing Mach-E owners June 2023…. and not a single car has received the update OTA a year later… only cars out of the factory have the new software. It’s a massive issue that Ford needs to address. They want $800/year for that feature too lol.
I’m a 2022 Mach E owner, and I agree with a few commenters here that for some folks they simply don’t interact with the car in such a way where those things become evident. Maybe as you mentioned Kyle, it’s a matter of not having the experience with other ground up EVs, but maybe some folks are always willing to overlook the faults. I am somewhat in the camp of being able to overlook certain things, but I’m also a bit disappointed as I expected more. Unlike some, I do autocross mine, I intended on it not being a Mach E but marriage will do that to you, so I lowered it, bigger wheels, do my thing. I want to upgrade for a better experience and thought maybe I could stick with Ford because as you mentioned, the design is great, but now with the competition, and getting more into autocross, it simply makes more sense on upgrade to switch away from it. In short, I think I’m in between regular owners and you folks, but I’ve been vocal even on Patrick and Livs channel about how disappointing this felt even before these drive events started.
Hey David. Totally makes sense why you and others are frustrated. I appreciate you sharing your feelings so people who vibe with your thoughts can get your perspective. It's great to have different opinons. We authentically find it to be the perfect ride for us and there is little that I'd change. Definitely want kW charging speed displayed and dog mode! I hope you have a ton of fun with your next vehicle! What are you switching to?
@@Livshaka Much respect Liv and thanks for taking the time to respond to me. Definitely always appreciate all the perspectives as well. Good question regarding switching. I think balancing cost and capability, that may favor the new Model 3 Perf. Outside of the EV world, it may mean going to gas purely for the autocross and events around that. Unfortunately even the SCCA hasn’t integrated their EV class beyond a certain level. While I’m certainly not Pro as yet nor do I compete in Nationals, it’s not something I can do if I remain purely EV. Hoping they’ll change their rules soon though then I’ll stick with that Model 3 and probably get an EV daily driver. Time for a used etron. Definitely seems that a single Mach E is turning into 2 vehicles.
24:55 That’s what is commonly called virtue signaling. And to be honest, there just aren’t that many of them, they are just very noisy and very online. Most people are happy to just get the best value for their money when they buy an EV. We need people to buy some of these other EVs with lower value propositions because we need other OEMs to stay in business. Otherwise Tesla runs the whole show and has little incentive to keep their prices down and innovation up. If you want to buy something to prove something to someone, go for it. Legacy autos need your money badly right now, and I love getting really great deals on Teslas. The customer wins finally.
i would not be disappointed if the compromise on the charging speed were not there for protecting the life of the battery, sometimes you have to let your hair down and slow down and smell the roses, even thought the roses would be accommodations ie coffee shop/restaurant/rest rooms/stretching your legs, enjoy life it's passing you by faster then you think, love the ride along s, and the the snacks you have to eat LOL, please keep this information coming, love your excitement oh and by the way youth :)
As a 22 owner I have not seen most of the issue other have. Never had heat issue even in -20 weather here in Wisconsin. Never had a software issue and I am in EA so are one of first to get them. Actuallyt never had any issues with it. As most real world owners the slower DC fast charging rate does not really matter for few times I have DC fast charge.a year. It was rare I have had any laggy issues with the interface. I agree they need to add charge rate in car but that should be coming since 2024 Lightning have this. Most of your complaints seem pity and not really represented of normal end user.
As a software developer for 35 years, a laggy UI is unacceptable, especially when it is all local and not loading stuff from the internet. And adding kwh to the display can't be hard. I bet the engineer who gets the jira ticket will implement it in a single day.
My 2023 2nd build LFP supposed to get 150kWh charging but never seen it. Got to say I still really like the car. Had two cooling valves crap out after 2500km. No parts in Canada 3weeks fixed, but Ford treated me very well. I would really like to see the charging info, nav system needs work, precondition button, the App is getting better but still needs work, lots of glitches, radio system cuts out. Seats need more movement. Charging curve should be made better. I’m on Fords case all the time, but they just give the run around and not much of a way to give them feedback back. I’ve asked for better too. All they say is they would like your loyalty but like Kyle said not much changes. It is disappointing I was expecting updates to fix a bunch of glitches, and the charging curve, and the laggy operating system. It’s like it has to reinstall the software every time you start the car. Hope Ford smartens up.
You guys are ignoring the obvious. Adding more features adds more cost to a vehicle Ford already looses too much money on. Tesla has such a big cost advantage by designing and making so many parts of the car in house 🇺🇸and has full control over the entire vehicle’s programming and future updates/improvements.
I just purchased a 2023 Mach-E Premium, coming from a 2021 ID.4. I agree with a lot of what you said, the system is laggy, and there is some short falls. After a OTA update in March, my system will no longer do updates as there is background errors. I have to now take it to the dealer to have them push the updates. What blows my mind is Ford is a major company, and they can't get engineers in there to do better software? Rivian and Tesla have killed it with their software. Now with that being said, I do love the car for daily driving. It is comfortable, mine has been really solid and I already put 5000 miles on it since March. If it wasn't for the major discounts and great financing, I probably would have gone through with another ID.4.
Funny. I HATED the MY. Love husband’s Mach E. The ONLY thing missing is Camp Mode. Other than that, nothing the tesla offers is better than the Mach E for us. Charging speed: irrelevant except for two road trips per year and even then it just isn’t a huge deal. Software: fine. Does what I need and has actual buttons and knobs which I strongly prefer. Power limit? Gets on the freeway just fine. What else is needed? Just so much of Kyle’s complaints are just not relevant to many owners. My only complaint is BlueCruise isn’t updated. That’s it. Otherwise the car has all the features I need. I don’t think many people get that the extreme tech and minimalism of the Tesla just DOES NOT WORK for many people.
if you combine the sale figures of Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 which are basically same car with different styling they are beating the Mach E. But yes when I was buying a Tesla Model Y I was very interested in the Mach E but all those little issues with charging speed and software is what swayed me towards model Y
I don't think this is the mid-cycle refresh you were expecting. This is a decimal point upgrade. New paint schemes, new wheels, an improved rear motor, and other minor tweaks. Maybe a case could be made that this is a 0.5 version upgrade, but certainly not a 2.0 by any means. At the risk of sounding like those that forgive the shortcomings of FSD by saying "just wait until the next version, it will blow our minds" -- the true mid-cycle refresh will be things like delayed Android Automotive OS (which will probably address nearly everything software-related, such as mapping, lagginess, charging info and control, and other usability quirks). Things like a heat pump for better cold-weather range (already done on the Lightning). I don't expect an 800V system on this vehicle. J3400 is coming in 2025, so that would be my guess for when we would see these things happen (if they're going to happen). Until then, Sync 4A is what the car has and what it's going to be. Expecting the world from it is just not facing reality. Like it or not, the Mustang Mach-E is Ford's EV 1.0 (Lightning was EV 2.0). The 1st gen Mach-E was a really good 1.0 effort, and they are doing incremental upgrades within the constraints of the platform, but expecting it to jump to everything everyone else has in its 3rd model year is unrealistic.
We have owned our Mach-e for 20 months. During that time, we reported 9 software bugs to Ford. None of the issues have been fixed as far as we can tell (definitely not in update release notes). The latest issue was the passenger-navigator can't reorder the way point list in nav while the car is moving! Our conclusion is that the disjointed, schizophrenic software is the product of multiple contractors and Ford doesn't even control it directly.
(Paraphrasing) Kyle… …a car needs to come to market with all these things… ..also Kyle… hotel balcony rant about the Cybertruck he owns.. Come for the raw opinions… stay for the nerd level stats 😂 Never change 👍
I suspect that the Mach-E did not get a lot of refresh updates because management trying to keep R&D costs down even though engineers were willing and able to make the changes. Not having a NACS connector yet is a turn off for me. My wife has MS and really struggles with a bulky CCS connector.
So I have the 19 etron. I love the looks of the Mach E. But the audi beats it in charging curve and I feel slightly better in ride. I wish the Mach E would have a power frunk, and I want the GT to have the fog lamps from the Rally.
Quick question for y’all. Whyy don't compare the Mach E to the EV 6? I think form factor and styling the are more similar. I consider the IONIC 5 a boxy SUV-type EV while the Mach E is more sporty.
The Mach-Es are likely going to keep the same batteries until some time after Ford's new battery plants are built, but initial capacity will likely be reserved for the new affordable car and truck that they have been teasing. The infotainment system won't be see any significant improvements until they release the Android Automotive based system, which was suppose to have been released by now. On their current Sync 4a system (which is QNX based with the UI put together using HTML5), I have seen some steady UI performance improvements since the initial system on my 2021 Mach-E. I do have to disagree with Jordan's analogy with the UI issues getting worse over time like on his iPhone. That is not true in this case. Apple revs the hardware on their phones every year and they build in the new features in iOS to take advantage on those year over year improvements, which also runs slower on the older phones. For the Mach-Es the hardware for the infotainment system in the 2024 model is likely the same as the hardware released in 2021. So I would say the gaming console is a better analogy. It is static for many years. So it is not the most performant machine in its later years, but the UI for the system can be refactored and made more efficient as the years go on. On the other hand, bugs can also creep in like the massive delay that I mostly have with switching rear camera modes to wide angle then back to its default mode.
Jordan shows that he's likely never been involved in software development. Many times, a project escapes the engineering department because it has to be released, not because it was perfect. Future versions finish the things that didn't get done before the ship date, and (if the upper management allows) optimizations are done, which makes the software faster and/or more efficient. Product development is a constant struggle between the people selling the product, the people making the product, and the people paying for the product to be made. The result is the balance of all three.
Mid-Cycle-Crisis❓I would love to own a Ford EV. (Full Stop‼️) 👉🏼 I however have only one☝🏼vehicle and it being an IONIQ 5 AWD of which my wife already complains about its charging speed (added trip time with just two stops) though I have almost always nailed single digit arrivals, 230kW rate and 18 minute charge times when available. So I’m never going slower and spending more time charging because I like being married.🎯Mach-E may beat me to 60 if I’m asleep at the light but I’ll beat it to a 600 mile destination by an hour with a happy wife as a copilot. She’ll be warm while charging bc if she wasn’t we’d already be back to liquid fuel. 🤦🏻♂️
The problem with the laggy infotainment is that it's an oem making it. Tesla has a good one because they are a battery and tech company first. All the brands need to just let tech companies do their entire infotainment systems, hardware and software.
It has to be a budget issue. The software is better in Volkswagen and Hyundai/Kia products but they sell less than the Mach E. Ford had to cut prices and offer really great financing to move vehicles there is simply not a lot of money to currently be made on the platform. So spending a bunch more money on a product that is not very profitable does not make business sense.
The question I ponder is what is Ford even trying to do with the Mach E, never mind what it can do. It carries the Mustang badge so that implies a level of sportiness and being fun to drive. Yet, it seems Ford is also trying to go after the Ford Escape type car buyer with the Mach E. All the while they are trying keep costs down. Maybe that is the smart strategy to try to be several things at once, but it can also mean being a master of nothing and everything falls through the cracks. Of course the obvious solution is to get the Mach E on to the new EV platform Ford is reportedly developing having a totally new electric architecture, an in house software platform, and sourced battery materials that qualify for the full credit.
Most of the things you're complaining about (rightly so) can be fixed in software. But a software patch isn't going to put missing turn signal stalks back. Contrast your rant here with your solictous first cybetruck review.
If it can be fixed with a software patch why isn’t it 😂 Mach-e went on sale in Dec 2020. Oh, and I’d love to see how Ford will software patch out the fact that they don’t have a big enough cooling package on their drive train.
Very disappointed there is no Dog Mode and I don’t own a dog. When going to two grocery stores, I don’t want the frozen food thawed by 110 degree heat in the cabin when shopping in 2nd store.
I loved my 2021 Mach E until I bought a Tesla. However I do understand I bought a Gen 1 car so I don't like to complain about all the little annoyances. My main complaint I am vocal about is that ford has yet to complete the recall to replace the junction box. Almost been 2 years and they are still trying to get it worked out? I don't see myself getting another Ford EV anytime in the foreseeable future.
the mustang mach e is a price point car..the engineers have a budget and can't exceed it during the budget period no matter what the car needs in improvements.
Just bought a Lightning, and all of your gripes carry straight over. We also have a Model Y. I'm constantly searching for information or features that just aren't there. The app is absolute garbage! I can't adjust my AC charging rate? What is going on Ford? It's 2024 now.
Oh come on, what's more important to the average user, showing kilowatts on the screen or having an interior that's not a chintzy plasticy rattletrap? Stop glossing over how bad Tesla interiors and build quality is just because they check all the nerd boxes.
Im actually surprised they did a refresh and didn't just wait until remaking the whole car. It really to me was not worth refreshing but rather just a complete remake. Its just to far behind the technology that exists.
Didn’t buy the ev6 cause I didn’t like the looks. Don’t really like the looks of the model y either but I may have bought one if Tesla had a different trade in program. I owed a little more than my trade was worth because I put lots of miles on my work car. Would’ve still been less than the model y sticker if you put the incentive in but they wouldn’t go for it. Ford cut a great deal and 0% interest on a 23 gtpe. Was fairly close to the Tesla myp with the tax incentives. Not quite there but close. Tesla is 2hr from me and my ford dealer is 5 min away and has always taken good care of me. Hardly ever use fast chargers and the software doesn’t bother me plus I like Waze as I’m not routing to chargers/etc. No car play was a - on the Tesla too. Another bummer on the model y was the range on the GOM was no where near what I actually got when I drove one for 3 days. Ford is actually fairly close to what’s given on the screen. If I ever need to use a fast charger that fact ford can now use superchargers now was a huge plus too. 2 biggest things I’d like added to the Mach e is turn on when getting into the car (like Tesla) and not using the start button. Make the start button an option. No cooled seat was a big - on both the Mach e and model y. I don’t call the car a mustang. It a Mach e to me
understand the software performance is nowhere near a tesla, but the reality is the average driver coming from a ice car who just need to drive and use basic functions would be frustrated trying to use a Tesla with so many of those basic functions missing for average users. a little too much time on that subject, 1/3 of this video. My wife would not enjoy a Tesla, missing driver screen and zero buttons to use basic functions. I would focus on the efficiency, i believe the new rear motor does bring some of that. amazing that all models have the same rear motor pumping out different persormance.
Here is the thing, the US isn’t fully really for electric, so buy the time they are, Ford will have it sorted out. So fellas unbunch your panties, your too serious about it, it’s not time yet.
holy crap that was just absolute DESTRUCTION of MachE.... I feel bad for the engineers!! It's probably a mixture of Time and money why they couldn't fix a lot of the issues with the Car if they were aware of all the Problems.
Everyone waiting on GM this Fall for pure play BEV aggressive rollout to include home charging solutions. Ford has dropped the ball on putting forth an holistic approach to the pure play BEV as Tesla has always done. Now there is an AI mania and people are counting pennies. Quality from the body shop has improved in a huge way for everyone but there still remains nothing preventing people from simply not buying given the whole "battery replacement" thing. Long $hmc Honda Motor Corporation strong buy. No one has worked harder at being part of every market in every vehicle category than Ford but now that everything is mature it's time to generate sales not inventory. AI enabled cell phones is moving product same has to happen in the vehicle space now. This has been a long time coming and is not a surprise to anyone as no less than Elon has been saying so against Facebook going on Years now and as usual Elon has been spot on.
I mean, if you are a mach-e owner, you are buying it mostly because you like how it looks. Nothing wrong with that. You arn't going to get a top value EV from legacy auto anyways. Pretty sure mach-e owners know this. I've had cars that were objectively terrible but I still liked them anyways.
I traded in my Minimalist Tesla model Y for a Mach E GT performance. I got tired of driving around a closet with a screen. Everyone’s looking for a better styling and interior finishes. I don’t give a crap about battery thermals. All your points are technical aspects that really nobody gives a crap!
Top heavy companies ran by bean counters don’t care what the engineers think beyond how it makes them a dollar for the quarter and there bonus. They don’t even know what a design review is.
Here's the bottom line, IMO. Ford can't figure out a way to make the Mach E profitable. If you can't make a profit on a car, how motivated will you be to put resources towards it, sell more cars and lose more money?... And I'm sure they have done the math on cost savings by scaling volume isn't sufficient either to turn a profit. They expected these cars to sell at a premium like they were when they first launched. Of course, the economy had different plans.
True, at the end of the day, if selling more EVs means losing even more money, it’s gonna be difficult for the bean counters to green light a best effort high risk project. It just speeds up your bankruptcy. The original sin was not taking Tesla seriously IMMEDIATELY. They needed 20 years to transition, but they wasted the first 10. They have nothing but themselves to blame.
Not a Mach E owner, but a lightning owner here. I agree with you 100%. Even in the previous lightnings we haven't seen a hint of the charging status on the screen like on the 24's. For two years now we have been hearing the same song of "It's on the list". I don't know what the issue is with Ford but I'm dying to hear the excuses they come up with that we haven't heard before.
We ended up getting two Blazer EV’s after the Tesla store in Golden Valley MN dropped the ball on getting us to the test drive while we were at the store with the Model Y Dual Motor there and available to purchase. That was a Wednesday. We bought the first Blazer EV that Saturday and another 2 months later. I get frustrated when Tesla people tell us that we should have bought a Model Y. We did try to at least give them a chance to sell us on one. They didn’t care and now we don’t either.
If people are telling you to buy a Tesla, it’s because you are complaining to them about your Blazer. Model Y is the number one selling passenger vehicle on earth…. Not EV….. passenger vehicle. Tesla is also among the highest customer satisfaction of all auto manufactures. Put 2 and 2 together. If you didn’t get one, who cares, be happy with your GM. Lord knows GM needs someone to buy their EVs. Happy you could help them.
It still kills me a crossover is badged as a Mustang. If you're going to do something like this it needs to be a baller dial it up to 11 halo car w/ the performance to back it up, not launched as a mass market car. Otherwise you just pull down the Mustang brand. This is like an electric Ford Edge or something. It could have stood alone as a "Ford Mach-e". A mustang should be a sport coupe. Period. Like the thing is fine, but I'd feel like such a poser driving one of these around with a mustang badge on it.
@tazeat I don't feel like a "poser" driving around my Mustang Mach-E. I traded up my 2017 GT for my 2023 Mustang Mach-E and I am happy with the transition from the older GT. It's a better driver. Kyle has some points relating to missed opportunities with Fords software feature "fixes", the name is not an issue for a current and former Mustang name plate owner.
Unfortunately access journalism is a real plague. I do value Kyle’s efforts to not be captured by that. He’s genuine and that’s why I sub to their patreon. Hopefully Ford’s handlers arn’t petty and can just take some constructive criticism and get to work.
When I was shopping for an EV last fall, the MachE was the only EV that wasn't even in consideration. Test driving the MY, ID4, EV6, and Ionic5, there was just no scenario where the MachE made sense knowing the things that you covered in the initial review. I ended up with the EV6 (from Ft Collins Kia ironically) and it has been awesome. I think it will meet my needs great to bridge the gap before things settle down a bit with NACS and battery tech in 4 or 5 years.
You spend 45 minutes dumping on the car, and you think Darren Palmer is going to get on a future episode so you can rake him over the coals in public? Are you truly so full of yourselves that you can't see the impact of what you're doing here? I get the disappointment you seem to have bursting from every seam of your existence, but stop for a minute and answer the question you yourself are asking: What do people see in the Mustang Mach-E that it is the #2 selling EV in the United States? Maybe put the disdain aside for a moment and be curious enough to find the answers to that question, and maybe you'll understand that Tesla isn't the end-all and be-all for everyone. Just as with the annoying quirks and missing features, etc. that Tesla owners just take as part of the package, perhaps you'll understand why Mach-E owners are choosing that over your holy grail car. Maybe what you consider to be so important and a deal breaker and completely unacceptable that it's missing, isn't all that important to people who aren't you. If buyers are charging at home a significant portion of the time, DCFC charging speed comparisons mean nothing. Even charging speed on the display (which I would like to see them add) isn't important. That's just one example of the value of having a different perspective and then seeing why your major concerns don't even register for others. If you don't understand something, assume that it's a failing on your part. Be more curious than judgmental, and my guess is that the answers may come faster than you think possible. Do you have some very good points? Yes. But until you are the CEO of a car company, assume for a moment that you may not have a complete picture of what's going on at these companies. My guess is "Dog Mode" isn't even on the top 100 list of features that they're willing to stop production for. Should Ford step it up? Yes. But what they're doing right now is working. Could it be working better? Sure. But they're in the toddler stage of EVs, and the Mach-E has yet to get to its true 2.0 stage. I get that you're impatient, but rewind the clock to Tesla's 3rd model year and let me know how those cars were. I've driven several Mustang Mach-E's and just one Tesla Model Y (need to rectify that), and I would choose the Mustang Mach-E with my money and my daily needs. A lot of people have made the same choice. If you don't know why, that's on you to understand... if you're curious enough.
😂 nothing forward to doing right now in the EV space is working. Selling pitiful amounts of EVs for huge losses is what they are excelling at. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how bad or good it is if it’s going to leave a red gash in your accounting sheets every time they sell one. Nobody should be expecting high value proposition EV‘s from Legacy auto. They are being forced to make EVs, and they are competing with manufacturers whose EVs are lifeblood.
@@ultrastoat3298 I disagree that legacy automakers are being forced to make EVs and are incapable of doing so successfully. Large companies aren’t as nimble as small companies, so they take longer to change directions is all. One could argue that perhaps Stellantis would rather do something (anything) else than build EVs, but I don’t get that sense from Ford and GM. The EV industry is still very young, and we have no idea how it will all shake out. Will Rivian survive and thrive, or will they be purchased by one of the legacy companies, or just exist as a Wikipedia entry? What happens to the darling of everyone’s perception (Tesla) if Elon Musk changes his mind and focuses his attention, money, and influence elsewhere? Would the company survive and thrive without him, especially with all the departures of senior leadership recently? It’s not impossible for a currently-successful company to whither into nothingness after a series of missteps, unexpected downturns, or other events. Ascribing too much prowess to the new upstarts and assuming that the stalwarts can’t do anything new successfully would be a mistake. Time will tell all, and impatience is not the same as wisdom.
TLDR - Just get a Tesla as the screen is faster, the charge is faster, the UI is better. We can't understand why so many have bought a Mach-e at all. Even TFLEV did a better review.
The car looks 10x better than a tesla or hyundai. If I never click the software in a tesla, I will never know the difference. You experts are so informative and we truly appreciate you, but a lot of this stuff we can endure for a cool car.
I have a MME and I don’t see the competition like Ioniq 5 and ID4 being that much better. Overall the MME is the better choice especially for someone that is coming from an ice vehicle. My spouse has a ID4 and the tech is still not that good and the brakes are horrible. Only thing Kia/Hyaundai has over MME is charging speed.
Ford really has no excuse for leaving out all this basic information. It’s been years. You can’t charge Tesla prices and pretend that you’ll get around to adding simple things like how fast you’re charging. Why was this not done on Day 1?
Mach-E owner here. I agree with Kyle on some points relating to missing features like dog mode and charging speed on the display, but "price, styling, marketing" is NOT why we decided to buy one. It's because of the overall package of features, especially for someone who will own this as their only car. It's comfortable, has rear cross-traffic alerts, radar-based ADAS, Blue Cruise (which for us has worked great), dedicated buttons on the steering wheel for quick access to common functions, a quiet cabin, good build quality (we've had not a single squeak or rattle), wireless Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, SiriusXM radio, a guage cluster, a volume knob (these days that's rare), 1-pedal drive that you can turn on or completely off and is tied to profiles of each driver (so when you start the car it automatically sets your 1 pedal preference), memory heated seats, heated steering wheel, and a 360 top down camera that pops up automatically when in reverse or when getting too close to objects while going forward (which is amazing for parking lots and pulling in and out of my garage). No other EV in this segment has ALL of those things, and the Model Y has none of them. We don't care about DC charging speed as 95% of charging is at home. And performance is plenty for me, even as an EV and driving enthusiast. I usually only keep cars for 2-3 years and then move on to something else, but I like the Mach-E so much I bought it out and am keeping it for the foreseeable future because there's nothing else on the market in this price range that meets all of my needs.
Thanks for the comment! Totally appreciate those items. The one pedal driving still requires major updates to be smooth…
Completely agree. I’m on my 2nd Mach E and I absolutely love the car. It’s not perfect by any means, but it’s still super fun to drive. I agree that the software is laggy, but I think that’s a SYNC legacy. As I understand, the plan is to migrate to Android Automotive so I’m not surprised they’re not investing heavily in fixing the existing software platform.
@@KyleConner my fellow MME owners drive me up the wall with how content they are on the charging speeds. I only take 4-5 trips a year that require DCFC but that 45 mins to 80% is a painful eternity.
@@anthonyc8499 I hear you, but I rarely wait around for my Mach-E charge to 80%. I usually charge enough to get me to the next charger. Luckily so far that fits within going to the restroom and eating food at a restaurant or in the car. However, if I had to wait the full 45 mins to charge to 80% to make a long stretch to the next charger. That would be a bear.
@@jomuyo dude, that’s the thing! It takes 25 minutes to get like 90-100 miles of range back just to make it to the next charger. What SHOULD be happening is it takes 25 mins to get 150+ miles of range so we can skip over the next charger and get to the second charging station down the road. The GT has such short legs that a skip-stop strategy isn’t possible unless we stay for 45 mins. It’s just silly.
Props to you guys for asking the engineers these tough questions. There’s been a small group of us outspoken Mach-E GT owners who have been on the forums since the GT launched and we’ve been trying to get this feedback through to the engineers from day one (when we had to discover the power throttling issues on our own because Ford was so misleading with their marketing). Very frustrating to see that they still aren’t addressing such simple and easy to improve features. It’s good that someone in the automotive media is informed and willing to call them out on it.
I agree the GT variants are not the performance car that many were expecting. I wounder if this all stems from the Mach-E's origins. When it was initially a Ford Fusion type car, which was later revamped to something more "sexier" and performance orientated. Going from what Ford talked about the Mach-E when it was announced. I would say they were more focused on the handling side rather then the whole battery performance architecture of the car. Or they just didn't know any better and/or they were too prideful to see it. There were plenty of boastful tweets that Ford execs made that resulted in some karma blow back. Like comments made about glass roofs blowing off Teslas, which was followed by a recall on the early Mach-Es for a similar issue.
Mache owner for 2 years now (had 2022 model, now have 2023 model). Here's some response from me.
Software/Lag on screen: Isn't a big deal. It's only REALLY slow for about 30 second when car starts up. Then it is fine. Unlike on a Tesla, you don't really need to use the screen for that much in 0:01 normal driving. Like really, how much are MachE owners digging down into the menus/settings of the car. Once it is setup then I basically just use it for Navigation which is quick enough. Sure, the functionality exposed to the user is way less than Tesla, but also it just works and is simple. That's half the reason people get iPhone instead of an Android phone, but still people flock to Apple devices like sheep to grass...
Charge speed: Doesn't impact 90% of charging. Only about 10% of my miles come from road trips when I am not charging at home. That's about 5-8 DC charge sessions per year. Oh no, there goes about 1 hour of my time per year. What do Tesla owners do with that extra 3600 seconds annually?
Styling: I dont see how anyone can disagree that MachE looks way better than Model Y, Ioniq 5, and EV6.
BlueCruise never gets updated: This is true and a joke. Obviously something didn't work out as planned on Ford's backend. They want older cars to get updated to newer BC versions, and continue to promise it.
Power reduction: Won't impact the average user. Most owners aren't going out and doing illegal things on the road. Generally you basically have to be doing illegal maneuvers or speeds to hit that limitation, even the 5 second one on older cars. Unless you to to track every day, but who does that?
I think this summarizes a lot of people's feelings. The power limits just aren't a thing for 99% of owners. It's a Mustang, but basically no one is buying it for it's raw performance. They'd almost always pick something else if that's what they care about.
In my case, I own the Bolt, Mach E and Tesla Y. The Mach E is my favorite daily driver because it is the most comfortable, has great range (at least in the summer), has android auto and looks the best. I rarely fast charge but if I need to I drive the Tesla. The slow software is a little annoying but it isn't that bad when you get used to it. I have a Ford dealer 2 blocks from my house so if something comes up they are there to service it and I can talk to a real person and Ford's CEO isn't a complete douche bag. A few other things I like better about the Mach E than the Tesla- the overhead camera view for parking, the ability to use basic cruise control without the adaptive part and the fact that the Ford is using radar instead of camera based cruise, the Ford has NEVER had phantom braking while the Tesla still does after 3 years. I can also use the cruise control when I'm driving toward the sun in the morning or afternoon while the Tesla freaks out because it can't see. The suspension is a little softer so the Ford is more comfortable. I wouldn't say I love the Mach E but it isn't as terrible on a daily basis as you make it sound. Ford could definitely improve it, and I wish they would, but all the EV's out there have their issues.
Douche bag....interesting. I guess that's why the Y outsells the MME 10 to 1. Check the Q1 sales for both if you have any doubts.
We have a Model Y long range and a Mach-E Premium Extended range. The Mach-E is a more comfortable ride and has great safety features. However software & phone as a Key is far behind Tesla and the charging curve is miserable, so its not great for road trips.
Rented model 3s and a Bolt, got an Avis Mach E by surprise and had so much more fun.
Sus
@@ultrastoat3298 no, SUV. But it seems more like a large car.
Mach-E owner and totally agree with the suggested enhancements. I love the car but do wish Ford would update the software with the features you described. Really hope you have Darren Palmer on the podcast to have an honest and open conversation about what’s going on with the software. Blue Cruise 1.4 was supposed to be out earlier this year via OTA and it’s been radio silence on that front.
I'm a MY23 Mach E owner and i agree with many of your points. I don't think the lack of updates are due to the current team's incompetence or being lazy. I feel they're generally handcuffed bc the lack of knowledge and experience from the original team building the Mach E. I'm sure the current team won't say that but they're stuck with a build that they can only improve on so much.
The charging speed with the update is more acceptable vs the first model. For me i knew this was going to be limitation, but i weighed it against how often i would DCFC which is only 1-2 times per month. I wish they could push some update to improve the older models, but it's not going to ruin my experience when we have enough trouble with CCS reliability and having to spend 5-10 mins just to get off the highway to the charger.
The styling, ride comfort and range were three of the larger factors for me. In my opinion it looks better than the competition. Then the ride has been comfortable anytime I'm driving around town or on road trips. I'm rarely flooring it, but it's got plenty of pickup for merging on the highway. Then blue cruise has been great for those longer highway drives. Plus the range of 270-280ish real world miles is enough where i can travel without worrying about DCFCing.
Overall is the car perfect? Absolutely not. But it does everything i need well enough and i went into buying the car knowing at some point it will be a local driver.
you two put a smile on my face, mischievous, love it all, keep the content coming, love the enthusiasm
Here in 2024, ANY perceptible software lag is simply unacceptable. At least I wouldn't put up with it. Not only should you not have the sensation of waiting, but you shouldn't even be able to see the transition of an operation. Obviously, this does not apply for things that are beyond the capability of the UI, such as response speed of a website, but the UI itself should never have visible lag.
@32:00
I would bet from the software engineer level, they ware working with what the upper management is giving them. They are being instructed to prioritize certain things or push them to certain releases (like the T3 release). But they are not a software company. They are not a rapid release company. They are a legacy car company and this rapid cycle is not their thing. They are doing what they can with what they have.
Being a software developer I know that story all too well when you are not the project manager or upper level manager and have to convince them they are important.
@44:05
Well I would say Kyle not that owners don't care, but the design of the thing. If you don't road trip a lot we don't look at it that deep. As long as things are reasonable. I don't own one yet but decided I want that with the combination of all things considered.
"Am I out of touch? No, no, it's the customers who are wrong."
You folks seem to put BIG priority on things I just don't care about and none on the things that I do. 0-60 times, track performance? Could not care less.
I like the fact that it has a real instrument cluster in front of the driver, turn signal/control stalks and at least some other physical controls. That alone gives it a huge advantage over Model Y in my books no matter how fast its screen responds.
I'm also not one to constantly paw at the screen. Once the temperature is set and Spotify is running, I'll very likely never touch it for the duration. Fast charging is fine for the 1% of the times I'll use it.
The Ionic 5 and EV6 are fine, but if you think getting warranty repairs are difficult from Ford, they're on a whole other level.
For me, its down to the ID4 and Mustang in this category.
Yea but they're probably mostly thinking about the GT since that's the main embargo that's up, for which those things kinda do matter.
💯
Why would it be complicated for them to put kw charging on the screen?
I'm betting Ford is using a separate computer for the gauge cluster and it doesn't have the data.
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I have a rant, but I have to say it:
First of all, I've been driving a while, and have driven what I'd consider a fair mix of cars. I also owned some descent sporty cars, and some crappy cars. Right now, I own a Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited, and I'll comback to that car. I've drive sporty cars like a Subaru BRZ and Nissan 370Z NISMO, driven Audi RS6, BMW M5 and many 3 series, Driven an Impreza WRX STI in a trip from Anchorage to Fairbanks in Alaska, and Driven a Jeep Wrangler 4xe from Salt Lake City to Alaska. Owned Hybrid, DIesels, Plug-in-hybrid, and EVs, Trucks (Both EV, hybrid F-150 Powerboost, and regular ICE), and Yeah, I also ride Dirt bikes and sport bikes. And have test drive Teslas, Shortly owned a Model Y (HUGE REGRET), and had an F-150 Lightning that I made a good profit with (I was planning to keep it, but I got offered a lot of money at the time). Almost bought a Rivian R1T and R1S, OPting instead to buy a PHEV Outlander for my parents to drive because either the Ioniq 5 or the Rivian would have been a bit too complicated for them, and they were reluctant to drive EV even though I daily drive one myself.
A lot of the complains you have about the Mach-E are valid, and Ford could have gotten the stuff on the video Kyle made, and made Kyle's dream car, but they made instead an affordable car for the masses. NOt another Taycan, or etron, or Hyundai Ioniq 5 N... Not everyone demands performance like Kyle does in corners and canyon, and car makers make wallowy boat like cars that people find confortable in pot-holled highways, and city/town roads. If you look at the cars people drive aroun you, like some bouncy jeeps and pick up trucks, well. I mean, I know you've driven a Jeep wrangler on a highway (Saw you 4xe review). I was okay with 4xe, though I admit, driving down a highway to moab it was like a kid playing with a toy steering wheel, but once I started to rock-crawl, that car was perfect. Basically, I think Ford coul dhave made a more expensive Mustang, but it would not start at $40K, and the highest trim would be WAY higher than $60K. You love Porsche Taycan, I know, but that car is how much? $100K, more? How much is an Used Audi etron? not less that much less than a Mach-E, and then you run into other troubles. and as far as comparing Mach-E to etron, I remember looking at the price of getting an etron before the bug hit us in 2020 (January of 2020) and saw it would have cost me from $70 to $80k for one, and the new one is about the same now? Hyundai & Kia sell their car at prices a bit more expensive than Mach-E (though they are excelent cars, I paid over $60K for a Limited AWD Ioniq 5 about a year ago or two years ago now). So, I think Ford did something good that most people will LOVE, maybe not enthusiast (except for the Rally). Those who can afford to buy a Taycan or etron GT, or Kia GT or Hyundai N car, go for it, you'll love those cars too. THose who like the lack of buttons in a Model3/Y/S/X, but are okay with having other issues (like Kyle's Model S Plaid...) and build quality I question... That is fine too. I know there are good Teslas (mine was crap), just like I'm sure Mach-Es and Ioniq 5 may have a Lemon or two. But for most people, especially those coming to a Mach-E from a old Ford Taurus, Camry, Accord, Sonata, or even stuff like Expeditions, explorers, etc, they may think it is such an upgrade! I know Kyle loves Escalades, well, I think they may be fast, but are crap when it comes to driving dynamics. SO, Kyle and Jordan may not like a start button or the chimes of the Mach-E, and that is fine, they can hate that, but I feel that, based on reviews I see from the channel, and videos, you are holding this car to the standart of much more expensive cars. and you may find issues with the car yes, but not to Not recomend, and as you say, it is the 2nd most sold car on the sector, so, Yeah. I may be wrong about the Model Y (WHich I will argue sells because of the Supercharge network, NOT the built quality). and that brings me to why I am getting rid of my Hyundai:
I bought a Model Y, had it fro 4 to 5 months, and hate it. Though the Supercharger network on roadtrips kind of ruined me. I traded the MOdel Y for a car I do love, my 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited AWD. Car has great feaatures, HDS2 is great, it is confortable, drives well, its fun, looks amazing (mine is lucid blue/black interior), its roomy, which is good because I often have 3 to 4 passengers, and I am inthe shipping business so I often make trips with the car loaded to UPS store and post office, so the size of the Ioniq 5 makes it reat for that. I really can't complain too much about the Ioniq 5's built quality, I think the recycled materials are nice, and the interior (while I like the EV6's interio better) it is an interesting looking place (in a good way) and I smile when I drive that car. I love that I can close the glass roof's shade, as where in Tesla/Mach-E need aftermarket shade. So, why am I selling this car and getting (likely) a Mach-E Rally?
NACS... From what I read, it may not be until a year from now till I can get access to Superchargers, and for the amount of roadtrips I make, that is annoying, because, while my car has the capability to charge at 230+ kwh, 90% of my chargers are not faster than a Mustang Mach-E's 150kwh (and I seen 170 kwh on newer mustangs). Why? Because Electrify America, Chargepoint, and EV Go are not reliable. I have been stuck and had to cancel a trip when I had to spend a hoole night and most of a day in a hotel parking lont near green river when those chargers were all down. and they didn't show as down when I left on Plug Share or EA app. Having access to Superchargers is why I got a Tesla, though I hated the model Y (again, my hating the car was because it was problematic, with many many time spent at the service centry, and the struggles to get proper service jsut drov me mad at tesla, and haviing a car broken for 3 out of 5 months I owned it.. No... I just got rid of it). Hyundai, I havent had any serious problems. I did have to eventually replace my 12-volt battery, but Yeah, That was about it, and new tires because too many aggressive starts... But the fact that I'd be sitting for 30 minutes at a CCS charger , I rarely got the benefits of the 800 volt achitecture and the 230 kwh charge speed on my hyundai, and rarely was I at a charger for less than 20 to 30 minutes. So, when you look at that, a Mustang Mach-E is not bad. COnsidering a similarly speced Mach-E would have cost me about $10K less than I paid for the Hyundai, and I would be able to use NACS now (I know there are some wiring quality issues with Mustang, I'm wondering if they fixed those in 2024 model, but at this point, the longer range of the Premion extended AWD brought me in, the increase in range in the GT made me more interested (bbecause form Kyle's video, the Magna Ride suspension is worth it, and I wish it was optional on the Premium trim), but the Rally really spoke to me. Looks fun.
You see, I do have another ford. I was waitng for PHEV that ford has been talking about, tu can't weaint, because I want to have an off road car to go to Moab with, and overlanding, and the Bronco Everglades hit the spot for me, and the Erruption green color is wonderful on that car. SO, I got a Bronco that also helps me to carry packages when they don't fit inside the Ioniq. And in road trips, I ICE more reliable than EV without NACS network. So, last few trips I took my Bronco out. (also, I do have friends in Alaska, since I lived in Fairbanks for several years, and like to be able to drive there, can't right now with EV).
as for Bronco, now I hear PHEV based on 2.3L and motor like the Maveric or Explorer hav e(that 45kw or Hp, I forgot) may be out next year or late 2024 as a 2025 model, well, Darn, that would have been great, since I did like the 4xe wrangler, but that car wasn't perfect (too narrow for carrying 5 people).
So, I haven't pulled the trigger on getting the Mustang Mach-E Rally, but I very likely may do that. Unless in next few days I hear I may have NACS adapter sonner than Summer 2025 for Hyundai.
I think money might be the problem. After the strike ended GM and Ford started making drastic cuts to make up for the billions that was lost due to the strike. Ask the engineer point blank this question. Did you go to your bosses and tell them "We need this amount to at least be as good as others in this segment". I suspect the answer is yes and the bean counters ultimately said no. These engineers aren't dummies. Gr8 vid as usual, guys. 🚗🇺🇸🔌⚡
Hoping that the Rally version gets here to Europe 😍😍❤. Great podcast guys
Mach-E GT owner enthusiast here. There's a ton of reasons I got the MME over a Model Y, even knowing some of the limitations. Looks, interior, performance, build quality, safety systems, etc. BlueCruise 1.0 is OK, but definitely could use some updates. The infotainment works fine especially since CarPlay is my default anyways.
What blows my mind are the other owners on the MME Forums. It's the owners who are content with 45 minute charging sessions that drive me crazy. Owners who don't care about zero charging info displayed inside the car. Owners who are cool with the GT falling on its face after 5 seconds. I am baffled by these people. I'd love for Kyle to get the owner he met onto the show as I bet there's a ton of great real world input they can provide and it's someone I could relate to!
Yeah the mach e forums are weird. I was helping my mom out with hers and was trying to figure out if I could change the display to show a power/regen graph (like almost all other EVs have) and when I asked about it online everyone was happy to tell me that not only did I not need that info but that I was crazy for even wanting it.
I do like the car a lot and it’s similar to my id4, excellent overall package with lots of great features but with some baffling EV-related blindspots. At least the ID4 corrected most of them with the MY24. Hopefully Ford will come round eventually too.
@@EvanSamuels the MME is a great example of how the vehicle engineers and the software devs are still siloed from each other.
Do you think the same could be said for the F150 lightning? In other words, could they do a lot better with that truck but they just aren’t for some reason?
I honestly think the Mach e is one of the better looking evs on the market. I could look past the screen ui because of CarPlay / android auto but I do wish charging would be hella improved.
Seeing my neighbours Mach E towed twice out of his driveway I'm not surprised ...
Great episode, loved the rants!!! Couldn't agree more and definitely highlights the issues I've had with the Mach-E. Hope Ford gets them figured out to make it a more competitive vehicle.
So has Ford fixed the battery pre-heating and cabin heating issue?
I have a 2023.5 apparently and bought it when I understood it was a CUV and comfortable and NOT a sports car, the box checked when I finally decided on an EV instead of a low end ICE. Also, it is not a weird Tesla with no buttons and everything on the screen. To make up for the deficiencies noted is I have a scanner FOB and Car Scanner on a Utility phone instead of onboard data. Biggest complaint is highway speed rock damage but given the roads I drive, maybe you can see why Blue Cruise is pointless. I put mud flaps and wraps on it > better. It does Road Tripping OK and I’m not miling out my deleted Canyon Diesel which isn’t made anymore. It’s an awesome luxury commuter/rec vehicle with buttons.
One comment. I have yet to see what I’m discovering for a mixed use case user like me is how to take advantage of L2 and Fast Charging. I’m learning that myself with cheap home L2 charging and expensive Fast Charging, the heat can be important where I am and maybe to buy a coffee and a 15 minute charge before parking outside at work with it.
Also you forget the idea of leaving your annoying dealer network even if they are probably deserving of that. It’s someone to whine to in person.
How about the middle of the road Premium model Mach E? is it worth buying?
Addressing Kyle’s confusion on why their test Lightning was still on BlueCruise 1.0 - Ford is really struggling to push BlueCruise OTA updates. They announced v1.3 to be coming to existing Mach-E owners June 2023…. and not a single car has received the update OTA a year later… only cars out of the factory have the new software. It’s a massive issue that Ford needs to address. They want $800/year for that feature too lol.
I’m a 2022 Mach E owner, and I agree with a few commenters here that for some folks they simply don’t interact with the car in such a way where those things become evident. Maybe as you mentioned Kyle, it’s a matter of not having the experience with other ground up EVs, but maybe some folks are always willing to overlook the faults.
I am somewhat in the camp of being able to overlook certain things, but I’m also a bit disappointed as I expected more. Unlike some, I do autocross mine, I intended on it not being a Mach E but marriage will do that to you, so I lowered it, bigger wheels, do my thing. I want to upgrade for a better experience and thought maybe I could stick with Ford because as you mentioned, the design is great, but now with the competition, and getting more into autocross, it simply makes more sense on upgrade to switch away from it. In short, I think I’m in between regular owners and you folks, but I’ve been vocal even on Patrick and Livs channel about how disappointing this felt even before these drive events started.
Hey David. Totally makes sense why you and others are frustrated. I appreciate you sharing your feelings so people who vibe with your thoughts can get your perspective. It's great to have different opinons.
We authentically find it to be the perfect ride for us and there is little that I'd change. Definitely want kW charging speed displayed and dog mode! I hope you have a ton of fun with your next vehicle! What are you switching to?
@@Livshaka Much respect Liv and thanks for taking the time to respond to me. Definitely always appreciate all the perspectives as well.
Good question regarding switching. I think balancing cost and capability, that may favor the new Model 3 Perf. Outside of the EV world, it may mean going to gas purely for the autocross and events around that. Unfortunately even the SCCA hasn’t integrated their EV class beyond a certain level. While I’m certainly not Pro as yet nor do I compete in Nationals, it’s not something I can do if I remain purely EV. Hoping they’ll change their rules soon though then I’ll stick with that Model 3 and probably get an EV daily driver. Time for a used etron. Definitely seems that a single Mach E is turning into 2 vehicles.
24:55 That’s what is commonly called virtue signaling. And to be honest, there just aren’t that many of them, they are just very noisy and very online. Most people are happy to just get the best value for their money when they buy an EV. We need people to buy some of these other EVs with lower value propositions because we need other OEMs to stay in business. Otherwise Tesla runs the whole show and has little incentive to keep their prices down and innovation up. If you want to buy something to prove something to someone, go for it. Legacy autos need your money badly right now, and I love getting really great deals on Teslas. The customer wins finally.
Sandy Munro says often that in those legacy auto companies, you get ahead as an engineer by saying no to innovation and change.
i would not be disappointed if the compromise on the charging speed were not there for protecting the life of the battery, sometimes you have to let your hair down and slow down and smell the roses, even thought the roses would be accommodations ie coffee shop/restaurant/rest rooms/stretching your legs, enjoy life it's passing you by faster then you think, love the ride along s, and the the snacks you have to eat LOL, please keep this information coming, love your excitement oh and by the way youth :)
As a 22 owner I have not seen most of the issue other have. Never had heat issue even in -20 weather here in Wisconsin. Never had a software issue and I am in EA so are one of first to get them. Actuallyt never had any issues with it. As most real world owners the slower DC fast charging rate does not really matter for few times I have DC fast charge.a year. It was rare I have had any laggy issues with the interface. I agree they need to add charge rate in car but that should be coming since 2024 Lightning have this. Most of your complaints seem pity and not really represented of normal end user.
Tesla: improves air bag deployment on 8 year old cars over the air
Ford: we can't add kw readout until the new cars with new system comes out
Kyle is fired up. Love it.
As a software developer for 35 years, a laggy UI is unacceptable, especially when it is all local and not loading stuff from the internet. And adding kwh to the display can't be hard. I bet the engineer who gets the jira ticket will implement it in a single day.
My 2023 2nd build LFP supposed to get 150kWh charging but never seen it.
Got to say I still really like the car.
Had two cooling valves crap out after 2500km. No parts in Canada 3weeks fixed, but Ford treated me very well.
I would really like to see the charging info, nav system needs work, precondition button, the App is getting better but still needs work, lots of glitches, radio system cuts out. Seats need more movement.
Charging curve should be made better. I’m on Fords case all the time, but they just give the run around and not much of a way to give them feedback back. I’ve asked for better too. All they say is they would like your loyalty but like Kyle said not much changes. It is disappointing I was expecting updates to fix a bunch of glitches, and the charging curve, and the laggy operating system. It’s like it has to reinstall the software every time you start the car. Hope Ford smartens up.
Find out if the "trip planning" feature will return.
You guys are ignoring the obvious. Adding more features adds more cost to a vehicle Ford already looses too much money on. Tesla has such a big cost advantage by designing and making so many parts of the car in house 🇺🇸and has full control over the entire vehicle’s programming and future updates/improvements.
I just purchased a 2023 Mach-E Premium, coming from a 2021 ID.4. I agree with a lot of what you said, the system is laggy, and there is some short falls. After a OTA update in March, my system will no longer do updates as there is background errors. I have to now take it to the dealer to have them push the updates. What blows my mind is Ford is a major company, and they can't get engineers in there to do better software? Rivian and Tesla have killed it with their software. Now with that being said, I do love the car for daily driving. It is comfortable, mine has been really solid and I already put 5000 miles on it since March. If it wasn't for the major discounts and great financing, I probably would have gone through with another ID.4.
Model Y LR is so good. Not sure if Ford will ever beat it. 🤷🏼♂️
Funny. I HATED the MY. Love husband’s Mach E. The ONLY thing missing is Camp Mode. Other than that, nothing the tesla offers is better than the Mach E for us.
Charging speed: irrelevant except for two road trips per year and even then it just isn’t a huge deal. Software: fine. Does what I need and has actual buttons and knobs which I strongly prefer. Power limit? Gets on the freeway just fine. What else is needed?
Just so much of Kyle’s complaints are just not relevant to many owners.
My only complaint is BlueCruise isn’t updated. That’s it. Otherwise the car has all the features I need.
I don’t think many people get that the extreme tech and minimalism of the Tesla just DOES NOT WORK for many people.
if you combine the sale figures of Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 which are basically same car with different styling they are beating the Mach E. But yes when I was buying a Tesla Model Y I was very interested in the Mach E but all those little issues with charging speed and software is what swayed me towards model Y
I don't think this is the mid-cycle refresh you were expecting. This is a decimal point upgrade. New paint schemes, new wheels, an improved rear motor, and other minor tweaks. Maybe a case could be made that this is a 0.5 version upgrade, but certainly not a 2.0 by any means.
At the risk of sounding like those that forgive the shortcomings of FSD by saying "just wait until the next version, it will blow our minds" -- the true mid-cycle refresh will be things like delayed Android Automotive OS (which will probably address nearly everything software-related, such as mapping, lagginess, charging info and control, and other usability quirks). Things like a heat pump for better cold-weather range (already done on the Lightning). I don't expect an 800V system on this vehicle.
J3400 is coming in 2025, so that would be my guess for when we would see these things happen (if they're going to happen).
Until then, Sync 4A is what the car has and what it's going to be. Expecting the world from it is just not facing reality.
Like it or not, the Mustang Mach-E is Ford's EV 1.0 (Lightning was EV 2.0). The 1st gen Mach-E was a really good 1.0 effort, and they are doing incremental upgrades within the constraints of the platform, but expecting it to jump to everything everyone else has in its 3rd model year is unrealistic.
We have owned our Mach-e for 20 months. During that time, we reported 9 software bugs to Ford. None of the issues have been fixed as far as we can tell (definitely not in update release notes). The latest issue was the passenger-navigator can't reorder the way point list in nav while the car is moving! Our conclusion is that the disjointed, schizophrenic software is the product of multiple contractors and Ford doesn't even control it directly.
(Paraphrasing) Kyle…
…a car needs to come to market with all these things…
..also Kyle… hotel balcony rant about the Cybertruck he owns..
Come for the raw opinions… stay for the nerd level stats 😂
Never change 👍
I suspect that the Mach-E did not get a lot of refresh updates because management trying to keep R&D costs down even though engineers were willing and able to make the changes. Not having a NACS connector yet is a turn off for me. My wife has MS and really struggles with a bulky CCS connector.
So I have the 19 etron. I love the looks of the Mach E. But the audi beats it in charging curve and I feel slightly better in ride. I wish the Mach E would have a power frunk, and I want the GT to have the fog lamps from the Rally.
Quick question for y’all. Whyy don't compare the Mach E to the EV 6? I think form factor and styling the are more similar. I consider the IONIC 5 a boxy SUV-type EV while the Mach E is more sporty.
The Mach-Es are likely going to keep the same batteries until some time after Ford's new battery plants are built, but initial capacity will likely be reserved for the new affordable car and truck that they have been teasing.
The infotainment system won't be see any significant improvements until they release the Android Automotive based system, which was suppose to have been released by now. On their current Sync 4a system (which is QNX based with the UI put together using HTML5), I have seen some steady UI performance improvements since the initial system on my 2021 Mach-E.
I do have to disagree with Jordan's analogy with the UI issues getting worse over time like on his iPhone. That is not true in this case. Apple revs the hardware on their phones every year and they build in the new features in iOS to take advantage on those year over year improvements, which also runs slower on the older phones. For the Mach-Es the hardware for the infotainment system in the 2024 model is likely the same as the hardware released in 2021. So I would say the gaming console is a better analogy. It is static for many years. So it is not the most performant machine in its later years, but the UI for the system can be refactored and made more efficient as the years go on. On the other hand, bugs can also creep in like the massive delay that I mostly have with switching rear camera modes to wide angle then back to its default mode.
Jordan shows that he's likely never been involved in software development. Many times, a project escapes the engineering department because it has to be released, not because it was perfect. Future versions finish the things that didn't get done before the ship date, and (if the upper management allows) optimizations are done, which makes the software faster and/or more efficient.
Product development is a constant struggle between the people selling the product, the people making the product, and the people paying for the product to be made. The result is the balance of all three.
Mid-Cycle-Crisis❓I would love to own a Ford EV. (Full Stop‼️) 👉🏼 I however have only one☝🏼vehicle and it being an IONIQ 5 AWD of which my wife already complains about its charging speed (added trip time with just two stops) though I have almost always nailed single digit arrivals, 230kW rate and 18 minute charge times when available. So I’m never going slower and spending more time charging because I like being married.🎯Mach-E may beat me to 60 if I’m asleep at the light but I’ll beat it to a 600 mile destination by an hour with a happy wife as a copilot. She’ll be warm while charging bc if she wasn’t we’d already be back to liquid fuel. 🤦🏻♂️
Considering how much money the EV division is losing Ford, I'm shocked they bothered with a refresh.
The problem with the laggy infotainment is that it's an oem making it. Tesla has a good one because they are a battery and tech company first. All the brands need to just let tech companies do their entire infotainment systems, hardware and software.
Is next year's model coming with the Telsa Socket? Or has this refreshed version has it fitted?
It has to be a budget issue. The software is better in Volkswagen and Hyundai/Kia products but they sell less than the Mach E. Ford had to cut prices and offer really great financing to move vehicles there is simply not a lot of money to currently be made on the platform. So spending a bunch more money on a product that is not very profitable does not make business sense.
Sad but probably true
You guys should get Sandy Munro on the pod to dissect the culture problems that explain when features were left off the list in refresh.
The question I ponder is what is Ford even trying to do with the Mach E, never mind what it can do. It carries the Mustang badge so that implies a level of sportiness and being fun to drive. Yet, it seems Ford is also trying to go after the Ford Escape type car buyer with the Mach E. All the while they are trying keep costs down. Maybe that is the smart strategy to try to be several things at once, but it can also mean being a master of nothing and everything falls through the cracks.
Of course the obvious solution is to get the Mach E on to the new EV platform Ford is reportedly developing having a totally new electric architecture, an in house software platform, and sourced battery materials that qualify for the full credit.
Most of the things you're complaining about (rightly so) can be fixed in software. But a software patch isn't going to put missing turn signal stalks back.
Contrast your rant here with your solictous first cybetruck review.
If it can be fixed with a software patch why isn’t it 😂 Mach-e went on sale in Dec 2020. Oh, and I’d love to see how Ford will software patch out the fact that they don’t have a big enough cooling package on their drive train.
Very disappointed there is no Dog Mode and I don’t own a dog. When going to two grocery stores, I don’t want the frozen food thawed by 110 degree heat in the cabin when shopping in 2nd store.
I loved my 2021 Mach E until I bought a Tesla. However I do understand I bought a Gen 1 car so I don't like to complain about all the little annoyances. My main complaint I am vocal about is that ford has yet to complete the recall to replace the junction box. Almost been 2 years and they are still trying to get it worked out? I don't see myself getting another Ford EV anytime in the foreseeable future.
I hope they fixed the ride
the mustang mach e is a price point car..the engineers have a budget and can't exceed it during the budget period no matter what the car needs in improvements.
FRANCIE!!! Where are you?
Just bought a Lightning, and all of your gripes carry straight over. We also have a Model Y. I'm constantly searching for information or features that just aren't there. The app is absolute garbage! I can't adjust my AC charging rate? What is going on Ford? It's 2024 now.
FordPass 5.0 allows you to change AC charging rate directly in the app.
@@advosburgh if using a 3rd party charger? Because I don't see it anywhere.
The major improvement will be when it has the J3400 charge port. Until then I would lease if I wanted one.
Oh come on, what's more important to the average user, showing kilowatts on the screen or having an interior that's not a chintzy plasticy rattletrap?
Stop glossing over how bad Tesla interiors and build quality is just because they check all the nerd boxes.
Mach-e was literally a rattle trap. Did you even watch.
Im actually surprised they did a refresh and didn't just wait until remaking the whole car. It really to me was not worth refreshing but rather just a complete remake. Its just to far behind the technology that exists.
Didn’t buy the ev6 cause I didn’t like the looks. Don’t really like the looks of the model y either but I may have bought one if Tesla had a different trade in program. I owed a little more than my trade was worth because I put lots of miles on my work car. Would’ve still been less than the model y sticker if you put the incentive in but they wouldn’t go for it. Ford cut a great deal and 0% interest on a 23 gtpe. Was fairly close to the Tesla myp with the tax incentives. Not quite there but close. Tesla is 2hr from me and my ford dealer is 5 min away and has always taken good care of me.
Hardly ever use fast chargers and the software doesn’t bother me plus I like Waze as I’m not routing to chargers/etc. No car play was a - on the Tesla too. Another bummer on the model y was the range on the GOM was no where near what I actually got when I drove one for 3 days. Ford is actually fairly close to what’s given on the screen.
If I ever need to use a fast charger that fact ford can now use superchargers now was a huge plus too.
2 biggest things I’d like added to the Mach e is turn on when getting into the car (like Tesla) and not using the start button. Make the start button an option. No cooled seat was a big - on both the Mach e and model y.
I don’t call the car a mustang. It a Mach e to me
understand the software performance is nowhere near a tesla, but the reality is the average driver coming from a ice car who just need to drive and use basic functions would be frustrated trying to use a Tesla with so many of those basic functions missing for average users. a little too much time on that subject, 1/3 of this video. My wife would not enjoy a Tesla, missing driver screen and zero buttons to use basic functions. I would focus on the efficiency, i believe the new rear motor does bring some of that. amazing that all models have the same rear motor pumping out different persormance.
Here is the thing, the US isn’t fully really for electric, so buy the time they are, Ford will have it sorted out. So fellas unbunch your panties, your too serious about it, it’s not time yet.
Does the volume knob still feel worse then an Temu Easy Bake Oven knock off?
holy crap that was just absolute DESTRUCTION of MachE.... I feel bad for the engineers!!
It's probably a mixture of Time and money why they couldn't fix a lot of the issues with the Car if they were aware of all the Problems.
Management probably.
Well, maby they're not alowed to put much money in it?! If the budget is tight, also the work on improvements suffers.
Everyone waiting on GM this Fall for pure play BEV aggressive rollout to include home charging solutions. Ford has dropped the ball on putting forth an holistic approach to the pure play BEV as Tesla has always done. Now there is an AI mania and people are counting pennies. Quality from the body shop has improved in a huge way for everyone but there still remains nothing preventing people from simply not buying given the whole "battery replacement" thing. Long $hmc Honda Motor Corporation strong buy. No one has worked harder at being part of every market in every vehicle category than Ford but now that everything is mature it's time to generate sales not inventory. AI enabled cell phones is moving product same has to happen in the vehicle space now. This has been a long time coming and is not a surprise to anyone as no less than Elon has been saying so against Facebook going on Years now and as usual Elon has been spot on.
GM 😂
Wow, Kyle kicked a hornets nest with this video. The Mach-E faithful are not entertained.
I mean, if you are a mach-e owner, you are buying it mostly because you like how it looks. Nothing wrong with that. You arn't going to get a top value EV from legacy auto anyways. Pretty sure mach-e owners know this. I've had cars that were objectively terrible but I still liked them anyways.
I traded in my Minimalist Tesla model Y for a Mach E GT performance. I got tired of driving around a closet with a screen. Everyone’s looking for a better styling and interior finishes. I don’t give a crap about battery thermals. All your points are technical aspects that really nobody gives a crap!
Top heavy companies ran by bean counters don’t care what the engineers think beyond how it makes them a dollar for the quarter and there bonus. They don’t even know what a design review is.
This was definitely a fast forward video. Not even reviewing that car with the car in front of you?
👍👍😎✌️🤟 Bean counters!
Here's the bottom line, IMO. Ford can't figure out a way to make the Mach E profitable. If you can't make a profit on a car, how motivated will you be to put resources towards it, sell more cars and lose more money?... And I'm sure they have done the math on cost savings by scaling volume isn't sufficient either to turn a profit. They expected these cars to sell at a premium like they were when they first launched. Of course, the economy had different plans.
True, at the end of the day, if selling more EVs means losing even more money, it’s gonna be difficult for the bean counters to green light a best effort high risk project. It just speeds up your bankruptcy. The original sin was not taking Tesla seriously IMMEDIATELY. They needed 20 years to transition, but they wasted the first 10. They have nothing but themselves to blame.
Kyle gets a little worked up sometimes, deep breaths my dude.
I think he's just frustrated because he actually cares and sees the potential in the Mach E going to waste.
Not a Mach E owner, but a lightning owner here. I agree with you 100%. Even in the previous lightnings we haven't seen a hint of the charging status on the screen like on the 24's. For two years now we have been hearing the same song of "It's on the list". I don't know what the issue is with Ford but I'm dying to hear the excuses they come up with that we haven't heard before.
To many modules outsourced, so they can't custom program other companies modules.
And get rid of the on-off button.
Please focus on ownership not loaning or renting 😏
OMG, no model qualifies for tax credit. That is awful.
That one will hurt alot.
We ended up getting two Blazer EV’s after the Tesla store in Golden Valley MN dropped the ball on getting us to the test drive while we were at the store with the Model Y Dual Motor there and available to purchase. That was a Wednesday. We bought the first Blazer EV that Saturday and another 2 months later.
I get frustrated when Tesla people tell us that we should have bought a Model Y. We did try to at least give them a chance to sell us on one. They didn’t care and now we don’t either.
If people are telling you to buy a Tesla, it’s because you are complaining to them about your Blazer. Model Y is the number one selling passenger vehicle on earth…. Not EV….. passenger vehicle. Tesla is also among the highest customer satisfaction of all auto manufactures. Put 2 and 2 together. If you didn’t get one, who cares, be happy with your GM. Lord knows GM needs someone to buy their EVs. Happy you could help them.
Let me guess, still no NACS, over a year since the announcement. What a joke.
They said 2025. But no native NACS and no tax credit is basically daggers in the heart for the mach-e despite the underwhelming mid cycle refresh
It still kills me a crossover is badged as a Mustang. If you're going to do something like this it needs to be a baller dial it up to 11 halo car w/ the performance to back it up, not launched as a mass market car. Otherwise you just pull down the Mustang brand. This is like an electric Ford Edge or something. It could have stood alone as a "Ford Mach-e". A mustang should be a sport coupe. Period. Like the thing is fine, but I'd feel like such a poser driving one of these around with a mustang badge on it.
@tazeat I don't feel like a "poser" driving around my Mustang Mach-E. I traded up my 2017 GT for my 2023 Mustang Mach-E and I am happy with the transition from the older GT. It's a better driver. Kyle has some points relating to missed opportunities with Fords software feature "fixes", the name is not an issue for a current and former Mustang name plate owner.
Damn, this is shit on Mach-E: The Video. I wonder if Ford is going to think twice about inviting Out of Spec.
Unfortunately access journalism is a real plague. I do value Kyle’s efforts to not be captured by that. He’s genuine and that’s why I sub to their patreon. Hopefully Ford’s handlers arn’t petty and can just take some constructive criticism and get to work.
When I was shopping for an EV last fall, the MachE was the only EV that wasn't even in consideration. Test driving the MY, ID4, EV6, and Ionic5, there was just no scenario where the MachE made sense knowing the things that you covered in the initial review. I ended up with the EV6 (from Ft Collins Kia ironically) and it has been awesome. I think it will meet my needs great to bridge the gap before things settle down a bit with NACS and battery tech in 4 or 5 years.
Android automotive would be nice.
You spend 45 minutes dumping on the car, and you think Darren Palmer is going to get on a future episode so you can rake him over the coals in public? Are you truly so full of yourselves that you can't see the impact of what you're doing here? I get the disappointment you seem to have bursting from every seam of your existence, but stop for a minute and answer the question you yourself are asking:
What do people see in the Mustang Mach-E that it is the #2 selling EV in the United States?
Maybe put the disdain aside for a moment and be curious enough to find the answers to that question, and maybe you'll understand that Tesla isn't the end-all and be-all for everyone.
Just as with the annoying quirks and missing features, etc. that Tesla owners just take as part of the package, perhaps you'll understand why Mach-E owners are choosing that over your holy grail car. Maybe what you consider to be so important and a deal breaker and completely unacceptable that it's missing, isn't all that important to people who aren't you. If buyers are charging at home a significant portion of the time, DCFC charging speed comparisons mean nothing. Even charging speed on the display (which I would like to see them add) isn't important. That's just one example of the value of having a different perspective and then seeing why your major concerns don't even register for others.
If you don't understand something, assume that it's a failing on your part. Be more curious than judgmental, and my guess is that the answers may come faster than you think possible.
Do you have some very good points? Yes. But until you are the CEO of a car company, assume for a moment that you may not have a complete picture of what's going on at these companies. My guess is "Dog Mode" isn't even on the top 100 list of features that they're willing to stop production for.
Should Ford step it up? Yes. But what they're doing right now is working. Could it be working better? Sure. But they're in the toddler stage of EVs, and the Mach-E has yet to get to its true 2.0 stage. I get that you're impatient, but rewind the clock to Tesla's 3rd model year and let me know how those cars were. I've driven several Mustang Mach-E's and just one Tesla Model Y (need to rectify that), and I would choose the Mustang Mach-E with my money and my daily needs. A lot of people have made the same choice. If you don't know why, that's on you to understand... if you're curious enough.
😂 nothing forward to doing right now in the EV space is working. Selling pitiful amounts of EVs for huge losses is what they are excelling at. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how bad or good it is if it’s going to leave a red gash in your accounting sheets every time they sell one. Nobody should be expecting high value proposition EV‘s from Legacy auto. They are being forced to make EVs, and they are competing with manufacturers whose EVs are lifeblood.
@@ultrastoat3298 I disagree that legacy automakers are being forced to make EVs and are incapable of doing so successfully. Large companies aren’t as nimble as small companies, so they take longer to change directions is all. One could argue that perhaps Stellantis would rather do something (anything) else than build EVs, but I don’t get that sense from Ford and GM. The EV industry is still very young, and we have no idea how it will all shake out. Will Rivian survive and thrive, or will they be purchased by one of the legacy companies, or just exist as a Wikipedia entry? What happens to the darling of everyone’s perception (Tesla) if Elon Musk changes his mind and focuses his attention, money, and influence elsewhere? Would the company survive and thrive without him, especially with all the departures of senior leadership recently? It’s not impossible for a currently-successful company to whither into nothingness after a series of missteps, unexpected downturns, or other events.
Ascribing too much prowess to the new upstarts and assuming that the stalwarts can’t do anything new successfully would be a mistake. Time will tell all, and impatience is not the same as wisdom.
TLDR - Just get a Tesla as the screen is faster, the charge is faster, the UI is better. We can't understand why so many have bought a Mach-e at all.
Even TFLEV did a better review.
The car looks 10x better than a tesla or hyundai. If I never click the software in a tesla, I will never know the difference. You experts are so informative and we truly appreciate you, but a lot of this stuff we can endure for a cool car.
Mach-E is beautiful and is the electric pony. Drop the mike.
I have a MME and I don’t see the competition like Ioniq 5 and ID4 being that much better. Overall the MME is the better choice especially for someone that is coming from an ice vehicle. My spouse has a ID4 and the tech is still not that good and the brakes are horrible. Only thing Kia/Hyaundai has over MME is charging speed.
Too bad Elon is such an a*s #nevertesla
Ford really has no excuse for leaving out all this basic information. It’s been years. You can’t charge Tesla prices and pretend that you’ll get around to adding simple things like how fast you’re charging. Why was this not done on Day 1?