Great video, I have done countless videos on this subject, I think that there is just too much to go wrong for little to no benefit for the consumer. And only benefit the manufacturers by making it cheaper to make. I will always prefer a hooked rim if I’m buying something.
Too much hidden, conflicting info. This dude made some poor choices. Not his fault as the info is not easy to find. The tyre was too narrow and he went straight to the max pressure with an inaccurate pump.
@@eto2352 he didn’t though. 5 bar is the absolute max. And that would be for an ideal combo. The tyre is too narrow and the pressure too high. He also inflated once the bead was damaged.
I took the video offline because things got a bit crazy and people were freaking out and making personal attacks, which really isn't worth it for the coffee money that YT pays. Back online now, hopefully people can react more calmly and intelligently. The tyre and wheel have gone off to Continental who are taking it seriously and at this point we still don't know exactly what caused this, but what is clear is that it SHOULD NOT have happened as the wheel / tyre combo is fine / approved, and the pressure was within the max recommended. My personal view is that hookless removes an important safety element for very little tangible gain and I will not be using them in the future, regardless of brand. I have no idea why YT has removed most of the old comments, (including Peak Torque railing against hookless), and kept some others.
In my opinion it went too far, where someone sacrificed a safety for some marginal gains. I'd rather ride a tubular tyre without a glue than that silly hookless technology. I think someone should say that something went wrong and everyone should forget that standard. There should be a recall. I guess it will be expensive but that's a price for a silly mistake someone made.
@@esdopedoen517 Indeed, I trust tubulars 100% and never had an issue in 20 years. Hookless can work OK; but it has to be just right, with no room for errors.
I was wondering why this hasn’t got a million views. Sad to hear you had so many haters. It’s these sorts of videos that are real and can help hold manufacturers to account. Hopefully some of the big name channels like CadeMedia pick this one up. Well done
@@treveri100 Thanks. Most were supportive but some got quite nasty,. A guy called Mapdec even made a video trying to denounce everything that happened. He was proven worng multiple times but never apologised.
got some zipp 303 firecrests. run with schwable gravel tyres. conti 5k TLR and now schwalbe one. no issues at all. all other tubeless setups l've done no issues too but that was on hooked. ok lower pressure since l'm quite light. but l guess the system is not fit for higher weight rides (as sugestest by that european tyre commision)
@@leonschumann2361 I'm a 100kg and I'm running hookles for the past 2 years without any issues at all... ever. I'm using Schwalbe PRO ONE TLE. Before I had Giant tires. However, my mechanic told me Conti GP5000 are crap for this setup and told me not to bring him Contis to put on as he will not do it. LOL
I’ve been riding for well over a year with a hookless zipp 404 with the str with the recommended width of 28mm. No problems. Sorry to see the complications you’re going through, and glad that didn’t happen in the middle of a ride.
Same, zipp404 with GP5000STR. God the bead is damn tight that it takes me forever to fit it without scratch the rim. Hard to image it pop out for no reason.
I’ve also ridden with guys who’s clincher rim brake wheels have gotten too hot during descents and the tire has blown off You don’t see many guys saying rim brakes should be banned Pro peleton are rolling around at 100km/h on hookless rims these days I’d say the technology is safe as long as you respect it - 65psi in my 28c road bike tire rolls fast and feels fantastic
Yep. Who knows the state of rim, age, how it was inflated in the past etc. I have seen my specialized rim lost tyre with 2 Bar and it is allowed to 3.5 Bar)
Scary. I've been running hookless for three years. Followed manufacturers advise on compatible tyres and pressures, and have ridden 34K km with no issues at all. But ... the whole rim /tubeless tyre compatibility issue is a minefield and nobody in the industry seems to want to cooperate. That leaves us having to make judgements we shouldn't need to, and carrying unnecessary risk.
I have a feeling all tubeless tires will be hookless compatible in the next 5yrs. That said, most of the tires I'd want to ride are already hookless compatible anyway.
i will stick with my clinchers and tubes. thanks for posting this. i have heard about this before but always assumed that people were pumping up with too much pressure.
The issue might not be with hookless rims in general. The issue might be with the Extralite hookless rims you have. I went ahead and read the user manual for the Extralite CyberDisk 339 clinchers and there are just too many warnings and confusing information for me to ever consider buying them.
I'd wager the problem lies with your wheels and their sloppy tolerances. There's also a common sense red flag that too many people ignore for the sake of convenience: if it's (too) easy for your tire to mount, it will just as easily dismount your rim.
Definitely agree with this. Is the rim a measured 21mm internal, is the tyre channel wall thickness uniform, maybe there's a weak point.. Is the rear wheel and tyre combo the same ?
@@harrybbbb what I don't get is putting the same tyre back on the rim to prove the point. It's clearly not going to hold once it has already popped off
I wonder which part was causing the failure. i am guessing the continental tire. my conti tires were amongst the worst in weight fluctuation and roundness. more than half my conti tire had unusable side to side wiggle. i do like the extra width you get from hookless tires but the hooks really give confidence. they are a weakspot though, carbon hooks are scary too, so im on the fence.
Thanks for the demonstration. Will stick to clincher, even if I ever go disk! Love that campy set in the background, 2 way fit, no spoke holes, hidden nipples, very nice...
Tubeless and hookless are fine, provided you're running the correct setup. GP5000s are NOT hookless compatible and Conti flat out says not to use them on hookless rims. Tubeless still has advantages over clincher in terms of not immediately going flat from a small puncture and less rolling resistance and smoother ride quality.
@@mrvwbug4423 while I appriciate the sentiment, and do not disagree, the argument is moot if the use of 5000s tr on a hooked "clincher" type rim in a tubeless config is considered. This was the intended insinuation on the "stick to clincher" comment that I made, with reference to the rim type rather than a tube/tyre combo. I love tubeless, just not on hookless and I think the video stresses that the "correct setup" was being used, but that blow off can still occur. The real question is if hookless is as safe as hooked for road use? Just because it is cheaper to manufacture doesnt mean hookless/nonclinching rims are good thing for the consumer as I feel safety trumps reduced cost.
As a veteran rider of 45 years on the road, and seeing all the developments some good, some bad within the Industry, this one is by far the worst and most dangerous.
To add to your entirely legitimate view, I'm an old-timer (74) but still love doing 100km rides, weather and trail/road permitting, and I'm running a 32c on the rear, but have Mavic A319 rims, built them up a decade ago, and they still run true, and I like to pump up my tires to 90psi, slightly higher on the rear, because I can! Why even have high rated tires if you can only pump them up safely on a hookless about 40psi? Hello? Come in control, anyone there?
Curious if the rear tire was as easy to mount as the front? Seems you make a point saying how easy it was to mount the front tire, and my experience with hookless has been that's they're a bear to get on. I can generally mount tires with just my thumbs on hooked rime, my hookless rims have snapped multiple blue plastic Park tire wrenches and I typically need to use the big heavy Pedro's lever.
Yes, the rear was fairly easy too. If you need to use big metal levers on delicate carbon rims (in order to mount hookless tyres) then I would say that is another safety hazard and not at all user friendly.
Thanks for sharing, I’m an early adopter consumer, I like trying new tech and went with tubeless on my road bike since the GP 5000 TL where lunched, but this is scary, I would never go hookless after watching this.
Not saying I would go hookless with the TL tire, I’m not that dumb. But I would’nt go hookless with any “hookless compatible” road tire after watching this.
Not an expert in Continental for this particular reason - their bead are crap and they blow out. The new S TR is apprently Hookless compatible. Did you use the latest gen?
If you put your stats into axs sram tyre pressure calculator you will see on that rim 'Warning - Suggested tire pressure exceeds rim pressure rating. Please select a large tire size'. You were inflated to the maximum pressure the pressure above which the tyre manufacturer has found the tyre blows of the rim. If you had 28mm versions of the same tyre it would still have been at the 73 psi max but would likely have been fine because is a higher volume tyre. People think the maximum tyre pressure is a target to aim at, it is not the optimum tyre pressure. I would inflate using psi not bar and a 28mm tyre on a 21mm rim bed would be a much better match and could be run at optimum pressures below the 73psi hookless limit.
Use the SRAM tyre pressure calculator. You will see that with hookless and 25mm you get a warning regarding tire pressure exceeding rim pressure rating. Either go with hooks or swap to 28mm if you are going to use hookless.
There's a reason why most hookless compatible tires are 28c or wider, but you get lots of stubborn idiots who will insist on running their 23c or 25c GP5000s on hookless rims. Usually tubeless isn't even recommended below 25c, much less hookless.
@@mrvwbug4423 there's a lot of stubborn idiots who work for free on behalf of millionaires running the bike industry, coming up with excuses for every isht they throw at us. Hookless on road wheels is a ticking time bomb solution. Watch Giro Donne 2023 stage 6, rider crashes at speed because her hookless tubeless wank explodes in a straight line.
@@mrvwbug4423 not sure why you'd call names people who follow manufacturer's advice. GP5000 STR is very much hookless compatible in 25mm, as per Continental themselves.
@@mrvwbug4423 Also most problem free hookless wheels (ZIPP, ENVE, Giant) have 23-25mm inner width. Extralight, went extra mile to cut corners and this creates bad name for hookless. Also this video is not very clear, as there was no comparison with different tyre, wheel, ect...
@@Pav_1983Amen! and people base their opinion on a sole video on youtube. Stick with renowned manufacturers such as Zipp and Enve and follow their tire chart and ultimately the tire pressure for hookless application
If i am not mistaken did you say your tires are continental 25mm if so 25mm do not come hukless must be 28mm and higher I am using 28mm Pirellis for the last 2 years and I weigh 194lb and no problems yet. O I run mine at 75psi
In my opinion (and I could be wrong) it is your tyre. The ETRTO recommends 28mm and their new recommendations is actually 29mm on a hookless wheel. I have 2 set of hookless both are fine, never a problem. Both wheel sets have 28mm tyres. Your tyre pressure is good at 4-5 bar. Hope you get it sorted. Wishing you safe cycling.
@@quwers This is still only 4mm. ETRTO's new standard states that there should be a minimum of a 5mm overlap between the internal measurement of a rim and the size of the tyre fitted to it.
@@quwers it’s a good job I covered myself in my comment so and I stand corrected. Maybe it’s a combination of both the wheel and tyre so. I did check one of my wheel sets and it has an internal of 23mm which I have 28mm tyre with no problem at all with Vittoria Corsa N.EXT. My others are Panaracer Agilest Duro. Anyhow I hope he gets it sorted and has many a safe mile of cycling. Out of interest, could he try a 28mm tyre?
@@CyclespeedTours interesting, other tyre manufacturers eg Pirelli tubeless 26mm tyres are ok for hooked rims with tubeless setup and 28mm is the minimum for hookless rims. I think this is a question for continental
@@CyclespeedTours extra lite know shit , if you ever had one of their hubs in hands and dismounted it you should know, i mean you are on weight weenies , they are known for pushing too far and poor durability ,
Please do a follow up. And include the important question, was the tire unusually easy to mount? I installed GP5000TRs on my Bontrager aluminum rims, and that combination was the hardest to mount of any tire I’ve ever experienced. Removing them was also crazy hard.
I will be following up on whatever conclusions can be drawn. The tyres were not 'east' to mount, but not especially hard either. Adding rim tape to the rear hasn't changed anything significantly.
No idea what sealant was used, but the instructions on the Stans bottle i use says that the pressures should be no more than 45 psi which is 3.1 bar. Is there a confusion between various companies and system set up. TBH, i never ridden close to the 'recommended' pressures.
The same thing happened with my continental tubeless ready tires with my enve 4.5 AR wheel set. Twice. Once while walking my bike out of the garage for its inaugural tubeless ride and another time when I was 1 house from my home. I immediately went back to inner tubes. The bike shop hadn’t experienced this before and was quite puzzled.
Have Continental and Extralite specifically tested the GP5000s TR with the rims and certified they work? I use the GP5000s hookless and they are fantastic - BUT was very sure to make sure the manufacturers both state that is an appropriate tyre for the specific Rim.
@mark_nz... MW Kerikeri? MG here. I have Extralite Cyberdisc 38C's as you know for the Z-Zero. So slightly different model than what Andrew runs (think his are newer version of my wheels). The CD339 is 21mm interior width, my CD38C's are 20mm. Even with narrower interior width, most of the tires Extralite recommends for this wheelset are 28+. They specifically state Conti GP5000 TL 25-28 as 'not-suitable' , 'extremely difficult installation'. I run hookless rim compatible IRC 28's in clincher mode on these wheels.
@@tonyg3091 I have ZIPP 303 Firecrests for rim breaks. They have hooks and are tubeless and clincher compatible. I'm running them on Conti 5000 clinchers.
scary to see this but i have a zipp 404 firecrest and my pressure is 65 psi in front and 70(5 bar) at the back. been using it for a year already and this has never happened to me. my tires are pirelli pzero tlr sl 28c.
5 bar / 70 psi @5:45 Well I'm blown away. What's the width of the tyre? (just out of sheer curiosity) But are we really surprised? When I first heard of hookless I thought it was CRAZY/dangerous. Eventually I bought a pair of hookless rims as they _seemed_ to be okay and I only intend to ride at 4 bar max so I thought "yeah why not" (the weight weenie in me couldn't resist a sub 230 gram rim).😕 Haven't ridden them yet though. I thought they were supposed to provide 2x or at the very least 1.5x safety factor.
Thank you so much for sharing this! Thank you! I'm so sorry this happened to you, but you're extremely fortunate to experience it off of the bike. Like you said - if that happened on a descent the consequence would be dire. I've been really concerned about hookless wheels for a long time. That being said, the pair of Hunt wheels I've been considering for my Ostro VAM are hookless, but I just can't shake the idea that not having hooks seems dangerous.
@@hugejackedman1951 well I think weight DOES matter, but the difference in these is tiny anyway. Yes, but supposedly the tyre/rim interface is cleaner......!
The only thing that makes me doubt is that in the page says “hookless custom” honestly i dont know if is something different that extralite implement or what
you were so polite talking about the danger. I was already screaming my lungs. wow that was violent. I like speed and fast conering. Thanks for letting us know this very very dangerous idea of hookless rims. I will never buy one. My goodness. At any speed, that will certainly be extremely dangerous.
Am I right in saying these are not cheap Chinese wheels but are £2,000 plus wheels from a well regarded Italian company. Where did you buy them from? Thanks.
@@CyclespeedToursAfter seeing the Mapdec video I became very concerned as (and you couldn’t make this up, I bought a pair of CADEX 42 hookless wheels last Saturday 🙀🙀🙀 I became even more concerned when I looked at (and used) the SRAM tyre pressure calculator. But then I thought WTF do SRAM know about tyres? Let’s face it, they’re known for group sets and yet they can’t even make a front mech that works. So I read all I could about CADEX and especially their test protocols. Here it is HIGH PRESSURE TOLERANCE TEST: First, the tire is inflated to 72.5 psi (5 bar), an average minimum pressure for most riders on 25c tires, and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Next, the tire is inflated to its recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. After that, the tire is inflated to 1.2 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Finally, the tire is inflated to 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. The final number of 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure is intended to simulate such extreme conditions as hitting a square edge or a pothole at high speed causing the tire pressure to increase suddenly. If the tire has been able to withstand the four pressures for 24 hours respectively without blowing off, it passes the CADEX high pressure tolerance test. For your own safety, please do not inflate the tire over the recommended maximum pressure or attempt to replicate this test. I wouldn’t trust a Conti tyre as far as I could throw it and I know very little about extradite but they get almost universally great reviews. My conclusion is you’ve got a dodgy tyre. Wouldn’t surprise me at all. I’ve had several from Conti. But they’ll never admit it. Look on the bright side. You could be dead.
I still dont understand why people would want to go 25c with hookless considering they need higher pressure to work which works against the hookless system of needing low pressure, if you want to stay with 25c, go with hook
@@CyclespeedToursconsistency is not accuracy. @Mapdec is right, you damaged the bead and maybe the wheel with the first event. I’m gonna take a stab-in-the-dark and say that I bet the wheels (designed to be the lightest possible) are out of spec.
I've been riding tubeless both road and MTB for a few years now. And since a few months I have a giant TCR with SLR 1 hookles rims with GP5000str. Install went flawlessly as usual and always run 64 psi front 65 rear. Great tires nothing wrong with it. And yes, things can go wrong! Not everything is flawless once.
Oh man. Ive been hookless for a few years and hooked also. Something to watch and fix by makers. This is our worst fear while descending the climbs. I'm always checking tires after each ride anyway ( was taught by old coach) . This should not happen......thanks for posting
First off why 25mm, not 28mm? Second 73psi or 5bar is not the "recommended" running pressure, it is the absolute max that you should consider using. I have never run any tyre/wheel combo at the absolute max...what would be the point?
The point is you hit a pothole, and you get a blowout. With hook rims, that chance is 0. So why the heck should consumers take this risk for no reason?
I don’t even run regular tubeless anymore lol I got tired of the crap and maintenance and the mess. I’m using TPU and clinchers only. Just as light just as fast and so much easier to maintain. Why was my previous post deleted? Trying again without mentioned brands and source to buy tpu. :(
I only use tubulars , I’ve had a couple of blowouts over the years , one was 45mph downhill, tyre stayed on as I gently came to a stop👌🏻 Why are people falling for this crap like hookless rims and tubeless tyres . Come on guys fucking wise up!!!! sometimes things were invented correctly first time, use tubular tyres and rim brakes and you won’t go far wrong.
One set of certified hookless wheels with one set of certified hookless compatible tyres failing should be enough for any sane person to have doubts. Especially since this is not an isolated incident. Someone mentioned an accident during Giro Donne this year, have a look at that one.
Hi, Thanks so much for posting this, confirms my own beleif in the failings of hookless rims. Thank your Biking Guardian Angel for not allowing this to happen on the road. Be well.
My mechanic (who is also a mechanic for our national team, so I would believe he knows this stuff) told me that Conti GP5000 are crap for hookless and told me not to bring him these tires as he will refuse to mount them. I never had any issues with my hookless setup with Giant rims and Giant tires. I switched to Schwalbe pro one TLE and had no issues with that as well, going since February this year. I'm a 100kg as well, so not a lightweight in any sense. I would say that the tires are at fault here, especially considering how it actually blew up with all the parts around.
How would you know this if you didn't have access to a "Pro" mechanic ? And are you happy with a limited tire choice (despite not knowing what those choices really are) ?
Commenter speaks the truth. Fellow Giant Tcr owner with slr1 wheelset. Gp5000 on list that didn't hold up to testing on hookless. I am schwalbe Pro 0 user as well as they are on tested list by giant not had a problem.
Just because you had no issues with Giant rims and Giant tyres doesn't automatically make them safe. Watch Giro Donne 2023 stage 6, rider crashes at speed because her hookless tubeless wank explodes in a straight line. She was riding Giant bike on Giant (CADEX) rims and Giant tyres.
@martinkroutil it won't be long before quality clinchers are no longer being manufactured. There will heavy/slow, low end tires for at least a couple decades though
@@martinkroutil I’m happy trying tubeless, although I’m on my first ever tubeless set up so time will tell if I stick with it. But I consider that a question of faff, hookless to me just doesn’t seem to offer any advantage to me yet limits (quite significantly!) what I can do with tyre and pressure choice
@@veganpotterthevegan given tubeless tyres are clinchers I can’t see a time in the near future that they’ll stop being made! Unless there’s a sudden weird swing back to tubulars 😂😂
Very useful video; thanks for posting. You seem to have concluded that the issue is with the tire rather than the hookless wheel, which is entirely possible; I have purchased GP 5000s that were defective (one I bought in 2020 was bit "lumpy" in my case; annoying but not unsafe). However, I abandoned tubeless tires in general a while ago, and I will never use hookless rims on a bicycle. Hookless rims obviously work well with cars, with pressures around 30 psi (2 bar) and massive wheels and very thick, steel-reinforced tires, but I personally like to ride road bikes on 28-32 mm tires at higher pressures, 80-90 psi (5-6 bar), and, as you've dramatically demonstrated, thinner, less substantial hookless wheels and tires, at much higher pressures, are not a very good idea. I'll stick with clinchers for now, thanks.
I explicitely bought these very expensive tyres for my gravel/CX bike because I found out about hookless rims Continental said these were ok for hookless rims. Running them at 4bar, but with tubes, does that make any difference? I noticed the tyres seem to have stretched a lot after a couple of months: I had been worried I might not be able to change an inner tube when having a flat on a ride, because they were really hard to install. But when I had my first puncture, I could install the tyre without even having to use a tyre lever. I guess, I'll look for new wheels asap. With hooked rims.
Same here with 404 FC. When I hear things like "top it up to 5bar" shit is programmed to happen, especially when riding in hot conditions and you dont consider expansion of air within the tire🤦 People need to inform themselves before arguing hookless bla bla is dangerous. The margin of error is definitely less than on hooked wheels but that's not an excuse to say they are dangerous. I've even put the 25mm S TR in front and rode down Timmelsjoch with 100kph and nothing happened. I can't hear it anymore 🙄
Are you somewhat deaf? He clearly demonstrates that 4bar is fine and it blows off at 5 despite beeing within the factory limits of tire and wheelset. So no one cares if you ride with 4 bars (which is slow as fuck for your weight).
same happened to me with my 28 mm conti 5000 str on zipp 353 nsw.The tire was relatively easy to mount, compared to the front which I needed to use a tire jack. Happened after a 75 km race, 15 degreeC, drizzle/rain during the race and I had the pressure set to 60 psi. Thankfully, nothing happened during the race. I set the bike besides the start finish. The tire popped with the sound of gun shot a few minutes after and everyone was shocked. The shop sent the tire to Conti a month ago, still waiting for reply. I think there is manufacturing variance accounting for the difference in difficulty mounting the two tires. I bought the two 28 mm str from the same LBS.
@@moserroman2083 it's silly to even poke a hook less rim with a stick, there is zero industry using them. Unfortunately cycling has washed off engineering departments with little control on their quality/safety of their proposals. Hence bad designs plague the market now,as everyone tries to be innovative to the expense of the user. I am not surprised that cycling is losing margin over the pie of sports that people do. Unsafe, and super expensive.
I'm on a hooked tubeless rim. Carrying tire levers on a ride is not the end of the world. I am very happy that the GP5000S TR is WAAAAAYYYY easier to mount than the previous tubeless model.
A nice experiment to try on these would be to mount them with a latex or TPU tube and inflate to 120 psi and leave them for a few days to see if they will jump off the rim. If it does, suspect that the tire or rim is not properly sized.
Jeez, i just checked out your video .I traded my Campagnolo bora 45wto for tubular version. I was regretting the trade because the cost in material acetone and glue .after seeing your video i rather deal with pain ass maintenance and be safe decending downhill .than take the chance of serious accident all because marketing. Sorry that happened to you.
The problem isn't with the rim type, it's that you're pumping too much pressure. This technology is dangerous when using high pressure with narrow tire! Dot. If you want to follow the 105% rule, this technology is not for you, forget it. If you take a 25mm mtb rim and put a 2.2 inch mtb tire there, then pump 4,5-5 atmospheres, absolutely the same thing will happen (tested on my maxxis ikon tires LOL). In your case with CyberDisc 339 rims, I would use 30-32mm tires and would not risk with 28mm, and avoid 25mm!!!
You're a brave man, I would have been hiding behind the counter pumping it up. I have a repair shop and I stopped doing road tubeless altogether. 8-10 are impossible or near impossible to seat (I see random wheels random tires from all companies). Of the 2 that Might seat up it is high pressure scary to get it done. And the sealant just can't seal well at pressures over 60, it just sprays out. How light does a bike need to be?
Why risk your life on hookless when their is a perfectly good product people have been using for ages. These bike companies are terrible pushing this crap.
The problem with hookless rims is that it relies way too heavily on the tire bead having zero stretch. If you get a defective tire, or the tire gets compromised over time, this is how it will fail. I'd bet that the front tire had a manufacturing defect, and the rear tire wouldn't do the same, but it's a matter of chance, and there is no way to tell by inspecting it. The setup I've been able use with confidence is gp5000 s tr 28mm tires on 24mm ID hooked rims, with inserts, at ~60psi/4bar. This is after I had a front blowout last year on the same rims and Vittoria Corsas, no inserts, that landed me in the hospital with some broken bones. The safest solution, and probably the lightest, too would be a tubeless tubular construction. Challange actually makes one, but it's for CX.
@johnnycab8986 As I mentioned in my first comment. Last year, I had a blowout on a hooked setup and much less pressure, too. Hooked rims are not good enough for tubeless tires either. It works with tubes, but it doesn't do much for blowouts on tubeless, and that's why I like to use inserts.
@rattila13 tires come off of rims with tubes too. The advantage with tubeless(insert or not) is that you have more time to address a flat in nearly ass scenarios while a disproportionate number of tubed flats are immediate or close to immediate.
@dickieblench5001 tubulars are now the slowest tire option and companies are making less and less of them for good reason. Also, numerous people have crashed due to rolled tubulars, including me, even though it wasn't my wheel with the rolled tubular🤣
On my zipp wheels I pumped my tire up to the max pressure of 70 psi to seat my bead, it seated and sealant sealed the bead but when pressing lightly on the side wall of the tire is would spray sealant at me, this confused me because at max pressure you should have a tight seal on the bead, anyway it was because the tire was stretching and when I lowered to 60psi it actually became a tight fit and I couldn't flex the bead in.
I have hookless gravel rims because they're meant to be more impact resistance and it felt sensible with my fat ass. 40psi though; essentially what MTB has been doing for years. Wouldn't run hookless on road wheels though, it just feels like an accident waiting to happen (narrower tyres, higher pressure, high speed cornering, questionable tolerances of both tyres and rims...). In fact it's crazy brands are selling such wheels, because all my Italian friends still inflate their tyres rock hard. If they ran these they'd basically blow up.
That’s mental!!! As a heavy rider myself at 90kg I would without doubt have inflated those to the max psi. Scare to think how easy it would be to roll the tire off the rim in corners at lower pressures.
WTF! That is realy scary, but thanks for the documentation of this failure! Great to see you in one piece.. I use 36er Cadex with the Conti 5000s TR 25mm at or around 4bar without any problems. But seeing this let me thinking about...
@@bartoszbruhn4577 lol at "more comfort". You won't feel the difference of 3mm on the road, it's just too little. Especially since tires react too fast to bumps (they compress really fast). Comfort comes from compliance and pretty much the only one that matters is your seatpost. Stop buying into the bs the bike industry wants to sell just so they can skip a bit of money in the manufacturing process
I use Zipp 404 Firecrest & Cadex 65's. The Zipp's with Continental GP 5000 ASTR & Cadex with Goodyear F1 R 25mm front & 28mm rear. I've never had a problem with either set.
Great video, I have done countless videos on this subject, I think that there is just too much to go wrong for little to no benefit for the consumer. And only benefit the manufacturers by making it cheaper to make. I will always prefer a hooked rim if I’m buying something.
Too much hidden, conflicting info. This dude made some poor choices. Not his fault as the info is not easy to find. The tyre was too narrow and he went straight to the max pressure with an inaccurate pump.
@@Mapdec Following all manufacturer recommended sizes, product compatibility and pressures are poor choices?
@@eto2352 he didn’t though. 5 bar is the absolute max. And that would be for an ideal combo. The tyre is too narrow and the pressure too high. He also inflated once the bead was damaged.
@@Mapdec you would assume they add some redudency in their 5 bar recommendation though no? surely its not 5 bar fine, 5.1 bar explodes?
@@TheLazyGarden3r max is max. Also tyre bead was already damaged
I took the video offline because things got a bit crazy and people were freaking out and making personal attacks, which really isn't worth it for the coffee money that YT pays. Back online now, hopefully people can react more calmly and intelligently. The tyre and wheel have gone off to Continental who are taking it seriously and at this point we still don't know exactly what caused this, but what is clear is that it SHOULD NOT have happened as the wheel / tyre combo is fine / approved, and the pressure was within the max recommended. My personal view is that hookless removes an important safety element for very little tangible gain and I will not be using them in the future, regardless of brand. I have no idea why YT has removed most of the old comments, (including Peak Torque railing against hookless), and kept some others.
Please do a followup. Thanks.
In my opinion it went too far, where someone sacrificed a safety for some marginal gains. I'd rather ride a tubular tyre without a glue than that silly hookless technology. I think someone should say that something went wrong and everyone should forget that standard. There should be a recall. I guess it will be expensive but that's a price for a silly mistake someone made.
@@esdopedoen517 Indeed, I trust tubulars 100% and never had an issue in 20 years. Hookless can work OK; but it has to be just right, with no room for errors.
I was wondering why this hasn’t got a million views. Sad to hear you had so many haters. It’s these sorts of videos that are real and can help hold manufacturers to account. Hopefully some of the big name channels like CadeMedia pick this one up. Well done
@@treveri100 Thanks. Most were supportive but some got quite nasty,. A guy called Mapdec even made a video trying to denounce everything that happened. He was proven worng multiple times but never apologised.
Putting lives at risk for the sake of saving on tooling cost. Hookless needs to be completely banned by a safety body. WELCOME TO THE BIKE INDUSTRY 🎉
got some zipp 303 firecrests. run with schwable gravel tyres. conti 5k TLR and now schwalbe one. no issues at all. all other tubeless setups l've done no issues too but that was on hooked. ok lower pressure since l'm quite light. but l guess the system is not fit for higher weight rides (as sugestest by that european tyre commision)
Bernard is 65 kg rider.
Not heavy by any means
@@leonschumann2361 I'm a 100kg and I'm running hookles for the past 2 years without any issues at all... ever. I'm using Schwalbe PRO ONE TLE. Before I had Giant tires. However, my mechanic told me Conti GP5000 are crap for this setup and told me not to bring him Contis to put on as he will not do it. LOL
Problem with this industry is zero control and accountability.
Not like the bike industry to cost cut..... press fit BB comes straight to mind. I have seen this happen in pro races.
That is insane! So dangerous that! Thank you for sharing this.
Are 25mm tires suggested for those rims. The zipp 303s smallest sized tire is a 28
Yes they are. Even 23mm
@@CyclespeedTours yeah go try 23mm on hookless bro it's not dangerous ... lol don't do it
I’ve been riding for well over a year with a hookless zipp 404 with the str with the recommended width of 28mm. No problems. Sorry to see the complications you’re going through, and glad that didn’t happen in the middle of a ride.
Recommended tyre pressure for system weight, recommended pressure by wheel and tyres manufacturers are all different. How can it be
Same, zipp404 with GP5000STR. God the bead is damn tight that it takes me forever to fit it without scratch the rim. Hard to image it pop out for no reason.
Same here. 303 Firecrest, used Schwalbe and Vittoria and will get STR next anyway.
303s with Bontrager Tires - I beat the absolute shit out of them at around 60-65psi
Absolutely fine
I’ve also ridden with guys who’s clincher rim brake wheels have gotten too hot during descents and the tire has blown off
You don’t see many guys saying rim brakes should be banned
Pro peleton are rolling around at 100km/h on hookless rims these days
I’d say the technology is safe as long as you respect it - 65psi in my 28c road bike tire rolls fast and feels fantastic
Are you sure this isn’t a wheel issue?
Yep. Who knows the state of rim, age, how it was inflated in the past etc. I have seen my specialized rim lost tyre with 2 Bar and it is allowed to 3.5 Bar)
Wheels are brand new
Scary. I've been running hookless for three years. Followed manufacturers advise on compatible tyres and pressures, and have ridden 34K km with no issues at all. But ... the whole rim /tubeless tyre compatibility issue is a minefield and nobody in the industry seems to want to cooperate. That leaves us having to make judgements we shouldn't need to, and carrying unnecessary risk.
I have a feeling all tubeless tires will be hookless compatible in the next 5yrs. That said, most of the tires I'd want to ride are already hookless compatible anyway.
Simple, if it's hookless, don't buy it. Nothing holding it on properly. Market will sell what people buy eventually.
@@iann23 good luck finding hookless wheels for your car😉
@@veganpotterthevegan what car?
@iann23 any car🤷 Outside of very old classics with original wheels, they're all hookless
i will stick with my clinchers and tubes. thanks for posting this. i have heard about this before but always assumed that people were pumping up with too much pressure.
This is very valuable information. Thx for sharing!!
The issue might not be with hookless rims in general. The issue might be with the Extralite hookless rims you have. I went ahead and read the user manual for the Extralite CyberDisk 339 clinchers and there are just too many warnings and confusing information for me to ever consider buying them.
This was exactly my first thought. Zipp and Enve hookless wheels have been fine for me, literally never head of extralite.
Same thought
Should rebrand to extradangerous
@@leslie7922 extralite-itup
@@leslie7922 Don't yet have absoute proof whether it was the tyre or rim at fault.....
I'd wager the problem lies with your wheels and their sloppy tolerances. There's also a common sense red flag that too many people ignore for the sake of convenience: if it's (too) easy for your tire to mount, it will just as easily dismount your rim.
Definitely agree with this. Is the rim a measured 21mm internal, is the tyre channel wall thickness uniform, maybe there's a weak point.. Is the rear wheel and tyre combo the same ?
@@Andy-co6pnId wager it’s a dodgy tyre. Conti are experts at making tyres that don’t fit.
@@harrybbbb what I don't get is putting the same tyre back on the rim to prove the point. It's clearly not going to hold once it has already popped off
@@Andy-co6pn Hard to argue with that TBH.
@@Andy-co6pn Of course there was only one way to make this video 😂
But GCN say hookless rims are great, and they’re always so honest and forthright with their opinions aren’t they - right ?? 😉
Aha GCN is absolutely not the channel to get your mechanical knowledge from.
I don’t think it’s an honesty thing, I think it’s a matter of who gives the ad dollars and gives lots of parts and swag.
@@836dmarexactly right.
As an experienced team mechanic I used to comment on GCN videos picking up on such. They never liked it & deleted the comments.
@@keepitreal1547yes. Agree , they always delete my realistic comments. Some new tech is overpriced fragile crap invented by money driven morons.
Had to be honest I had never heard of the wheelmaker before ?
Long history of high quality products including MTB
I wonder which part was causing the failure. i am guessing the continental tire. my conti tires were amongst the worst in weight fluctuation and roundness. more than half my conti tire had unusable side to side wiggle. i do like the extra width you get from hookless tires but the hooks really give confidence. they are a weakspot though, carbon hooks are scary too, so im on the fence.
tyres were too narrow for the rim. or the rim was too wide for the tyre. apparently.
Back to clinchers?
Back to tubs!
Had issues with continental tyres on my Zipps.
Would be interesting to see the results with a different brand.
My monies on dodgy tyre.
Product recall needed!!! This is crazy, thank you for posting
Thanks for the demonstration. Will stick to clincher, even if I ever go disk! Love that campy set in the background, 2 way fit, no spoke holes, hidden nipples, very nice...
Tubeless and hookless are fine, provided you're running the correct setup. GP5000s are NOT hookless compatible and Conti flat out says not to use them on hookless rims. Tubeless still has advantages over clincher in terms of not immediately going flat from a small puncture and less rolling resistance and smoother ride quality.
@@mrvwbug4423 GP5000 STR are hookless compatible, numbnuts.
@@mrvwbug4423 while I appriciate the sentiment, and do not disagree, the argument is moot if the use of 5000s tr on a hooked "clincher" type rim in a tubeless config is considered. This was the intended insinuation on the "stick to clincher" comment that I made, with reference to the rim type rather than a tube/tyre combo. I love tubeless, just not on hookless and I think the video stresses that the "correct setup" was being used, but that blow off can still occur. The real question is if hookless is as safe as hooked for road use? Just because it is cheaper to manufacture doesnt mean hookless/nonclinching rims are good thing for the consumer as I feel safety trumps reduced cost.
As a veteran rider of 45 years on the road, and seeing all the developments some good, some bad within the Industry, this one is by far the worst and most dangerous.
To add to your entirely legitimate view, I'm an old-timer (74) but still love doing 100km rides, weather and trail/road permitting, and I'm running a 32c on the rear, but have Mavic A319 rims, built them up a decade ago, and they still run true, and I like to pump up my tires to 90psi, slightly higher on the rear, because I can!
Why even have high rated tires if you can only pump them up safely on a hookless about 40psi?
Hello? Come in control, anyone there?
Over 300k miles in my legs and I'm happy we have hookless wheels and disc brakes
What a nightmare. Thank you for exposing this. There are lawsuits on the horizon.
Curious if the rear tire was as easy to mount as the front? Seems you make a point saying how easy it was to mount the front tire, and my experience with hookless has been that's they're a bear to get on. I can generally mount tires with just my thumbs on hooked rime, my hookless rims have snapped multiple blue plastic Park tire wrenches and I typically need to use the big heavy Pedro's lever.
Yes, the rear was fairly easy too. If you need to use big metal levers on delicate carbon rims (in order to mount hookless tyres) then I would say that is another safety hazard and not at all user friendly.
Thanks for sharing, I’m an early adopter consumer, I like trying new tech and went with tubeless on my road bike since the GP 5000 TL where lunched, but this is scary, I would never go hookless after watching this.
Hookless is fine if you use a compatible tire. The GP5000 is specifically NOT hookless compatible
@@mrvwbug4423 GP5000 STR (the tyre shown in this video) is very much hookless compatible, brain harder.
Not saying I would go hookless with the TL tire, I’m not that dumb. But I would’nt go hookless with any “hookless compatible” road tire after watching this.
Not an expert in Continental for this particular reason - their bead are crap and they blow out. The new S TR is apprently Hookless compatible. Did you use the latest gen?
Not sure, but bought new in Summer of 23.
This is widely spoke about in the group, what’s to stop this happening… hooked all the way😊👍
Have your tried doing it with just a tube and the tubless tyre? Be interested if it blows too....obviously a lot less messy.
Don't ever want to experience a blowout close to my head again.....
If you put your stats into axs sram tyre pressure calculator you will see on that rim 'Warning - Suggested tire pressure exceeds rim pressure rating. Please select a large tire size'. You were inflated to the maximum pressure the pressure above which the tyre manufacturer has found the tyre blows of the rim. If you had 28mm versions of the same tyre it would still have been at the 73 psi max but would likely have been fine because is a higher volume tyre. People think the maximum tyre pressure is a target to aim at, it is not the optimum tyre pressure. I would inflate using psi not bar and a 28mm tyre on a 21mm rim bed would be a much better match and could be run at optimum pressures below the 73psi hookless limit.
Nonsense, I'm afraid, tyre states 5 bar max, wheel 6 bar max, and tyre is approved for that wheel.
so what was the outcome? which product was out of spec? or maybe 25mm tire is too narrow ?
there is a follow up vid that explains everything.
@@CyclespeedTours i found it, thx.
Is that disc brake rub I am hearing while fiddling with the valve?
Yeah, disc brakes eh?! The rear is a bit tight.
17k views, nice. Was the front tire damaged when you installed it maybe? Mount a new tire and give us an update.
No, it went on relatively easily. (1 plastic lever)
Use the SRAM tyre pressure calculator. You will see that with hookless and 25mm you get a warning regarding tire pressure exceeding rim pressure rating. Either go with hooks or swap to 28mm if you are going to use hookless.
There's a reason why most hookless compatible tires are 28c or wider, but you get lots of stubborn idiots who will insist on running their 23c or 25c GP5000s on hookless rims. Usually tubeless isn't even recommended below 25c, much less hookless.
@@mrvwbug4423 there's a lot of stubborn idiots who work for free on behalf of millionaires running the bike industry, coming up with excuses for every isht they throw at us. Hookless on road wheels is a ticking time bomb solution. Watch Giro Donne 2023 stage 6, rider crashes at speed because her hookless tubeless wank explodes in a straight line.
@@mrvwbug4423 not sure why you'd call names people who follow manufacturer's advice. GP5000 STR is very much hookless compatible in 25mm, as per Continental themselves.
@@mrvwbug4423 Also most problem free hookless wheels (ZIPP, ENVE, Giant) have 23-25mm inner width. Extralight, went extra mile to cut corners and this creates bad name for hookless. Also this video is not very clear, as there was no comparison with different tyre, wheel, ect...
@@Pav_1983Amen! and people base their opinion on a sole video on youtube. Stick with renowned manufacturers such as Zipp and Enve and follow their tire chart and ultimately the tire pressure for hookless application
If i am not mistaken did you say your tires are continental 25mm if so 25mm do not come hukless must be 28mm and higher I am using 28mm Pirellis for the last 2 years and I weigh 194lb and no problems yet. O I run mine at 75psi
Sorry, but no, Continetnal does approve the 5000S TR in 25mm for hookless
Try the 28mm and you will see the difference they also feel better and roll faster
In my opinion (and I could be wrong) it is your tyre. The ETRTO recommends 28mm and their new recommendations is actually 29mm on a hookless wheel. I have 2 set of hookless both are fine, never a problem. Both wheel sets have 28mm tyres. Your tyre pressure is good at 4-5 bar. Hope you get it sorted. Wishing you safe cycling.
I think 25mm tyres on hookless should be immediately ditched as a bad idea. Not approved as in this case.
You are wrong. The 29mm recommendation is for a 25mm internal width. This Extralite rim is 21mm.
@@quwers This is still only 4mm. ETRTO's new standard states that there should be a minimum of a 5mm overlap between the internal measurement of a rim and the size of the tyre fitted to it.
@@quwers it’s a good job I covered myself in my comment so and I stand corrected. Maybe it’s a combination of both the wheel and tyre so. I did check one of my wheel sets and it has an internal of 23mm which I have 28mm tyre with no problem at all with Vittoria Corsa N.EXT. My others are Panaracer Agilest Duro. Anyhow I hope he gets it sorted and has many a safe mile of cycling. Out of interest, could he try a 28mm tyre?
@@GerryAttrick , hi. So the minimum tyre should be a 26mm in this case? I’m sure he could try a 28mm as well.
On most tyres hookless is not supported below 28mm, would 25mm be out of spec?
Approved by Extralite and Conti make it in a 25mm saying nothing about hookless.....
@@CyclespeedTours interesting, other tyre manufacturers eg Pirelli tubeless 26mm tyres are ok for hooked rims with tubeless setup and 28mm is the minimum for hookless rims. I think this is a question for continental
@@CyclespeedTours extra lite know shit , if you ever had one of their hubs in hands and dismounted it you should know, i mean you are on weight weenies , they are known for pushing too far and poor durability ,
@@MilesNewman-s7r conti say nothing probably they should , but the rim manufacturer is guilty and the buyer here, 25c hookless is recipe for disaster
Please do a follow up. And include the important question, was the tire unusually easy to mount? I installed GP5000TRs on my Bontrager aluminum rims, and that combination was the hardest to mount of any tire I’ve ever experienced. Removing them was also crazy hard.
I will be following up on whatever conclusions can be drawn. The tyres were not 'east' to mount, but not especially hard either. Adding rim tape to the rear hasn't changed anything significantly.
No idea what sealant was used, but the instructions on the Stans bottle i use says that the pressures should be no more than 45 psi which is 3.1 bar. Is there a confusion between various companies and system set up. TBH, i never ridden close to the 'recommended' pressures.
Agree, hookless cannot and never more than 65psi, d ws manufacturer shud indicate. Not about gp5000 str issue is ur ws or d psi too high
They state 5 bar or 73 psi max.
The same thing happened with my continental tubeless ready tires with my enve 4.5 AR wheel set. Twice. Once while walking my bike out of the garage for its inaugural tubeless ride and another time when I was 1 house from my home. I immediately went back to inner tubes. The bike shop hadn’t experienced this before and was quite puzzled.
They would say that though
You need continental GP5000 S TR for enve 4.5AR , the reguler TR is not compatible
@@minkmoink those are the ones I’m having issues with
@@travissherer7351 Hi travis, I'm using Conti GP5000STR 28mm on enve 4.5AR with no issue (tubeless)
Looks like y'all got the infamous pearl necklace of the tubeless world
Hookless is the biggest gimmick in cycling
Have Continental and Extralite specifically tested the GP5000s TR with the rims and certified they work? I use the GP5000s hookless and they are fantastic - BUT was very sure to make sure the manufacturers both state that is an appropriate tyre for the specific Rim.
Yes they do
@mark_nz... MW Kerikeri? MG here. I have Extralite Cyberdisc 38C's as you know for the Z-Zero. So slightly different model than what Andrew runs (think his are newer version of my wheels). The CD339 is 21mm interior width, my CD38C's are 20mm. Even with narrower interior width, most of the tires Extralite recommends for this wheelset are 28+. They specifically state Conti GP5000 TL 25-28 as 'not-suitable' , 'extremely difficult installation'. I run hookless rim compatible IRC 28's in clincher mode on these wheels.
Thanks for this video. Couldn't be more of a convincing demonstration. Clinchers forever.
just get hooked rims
Just use a hookless compatible tire. GP5000s aren't hookless compatible and Conti and EVERY wheel manufacturer says not to use them on hookless.
@@tonyg3091 I have ZIPP 303 Firecrests for rim breaks. They have hooks and are tubeless and clincher compatible. I'm running them on Conti 5000 clinchers.
@@mrvwbug4423 stop spewing nonsense, GP5000 STR are hookless compatible.
@@alamogiftshop not sure what you're referring to. All 5000 STR's are hookless compatible.
Was your tyre seated evenly?
Yes, it rode 180km perfectly
scary to see this but i have a zipp 404 firecrest and my pressure is 65 psi in front and 70(5 bar) at the back. been using it for a year already and this has never happened to me. my tires are pirelli pzero tlr sl 28c.
There is always risk. But the hooked design has no similar risk.
5 bar / 70 psi @5:45 Well I'm blown away. What's the width of the tyre? (just out of sheer curiosity)
But are we really surprised? When I first heard of hookless I thought it was CRAZY/dangerous. Eventually I bought a pair of hookless rims as they _seemed_ to be okay and I only intend to ride at 4 bar max so I thought "yeah why not" (the weight weenie in me couldn't resist a sub 230 gram rim).😕 Haven't ridden them yet though. I thought they were supposed to provide 2x or at the very least 1.5x safety factor.
25mm, yeah you would think that true blowoff pressure would be above 7.5 bar.....
Thank you so much for sharing this! Thank you! I'm so sorry this happened to you, but you're extremely fortunate to experience it off of the bike. Like you said - if that happened on a descent the consequence would be dire.
I've been really concerned about hookless wheels for a long time. That being said, the pair of Hunt wheels I've been considering for my Ostro VAM are hookless, but I just can't shake the idea that not having hooks seems dangerous.
It's just not worth the risk, IMO, however small it might be.
what is the advantage of hookless? legitimately curious
Supposedly a touch lighter, a touch more aero, but these claims are a bit dubious. Also cheaper to produce.
@@CyclespeedTours i thought the industry has been saying that weight doesn't matter? also more aero?? the hook is inside the rim 😂
@@hugejackedman1951 well I think weight DOES matter, but the difference in these is tiny anyway. Yes, but supposedly the tyre/rim interface is cleaner......!
i hope this video gets viral..
The only thing that makes me doubt is that in the page says “hookless custom” honestly i dont know if is something different that extralite implement or what
you were so polite talking about the danger. I was already screaming my lungs. wow that was violent. I like speed and fast conering. Thanks for letting us know this very very dangerous idea of hookless rims. I will never buy one. My goodness. At any speed, that will certainly be extremely dangerous.
Am I right in saying these are not cheap Chinese wheels but are £2,000 plus wheels from a well regarded Italian company. Where did you buy them from? Thanks.
Correct. Directly from Extralite. Been running the exact same wheels but in tubular for a year with no issues.
@@CyclespeedToursAfter seeing the Mapdec video I became very concerned as (and you couldn’t make this up, I bought a pair of CADEX 42 hookless wheels last Saturday 🙀🙀🙀
I became even more concerned when I looked at (and used) the SRAM tyre pressure calculator. But then I thought WTF do SRAM know about tyres? Let’s face it, they’re known for group sets and yet they can’t even make a front mech that works.
So I read all I could about CADEX and especially their test protocols.
Here it is HIGH PRESSURE TOLERANCE TEST: First, the tire is inflated to 72.5 psi (5 bar), an average minimum pressure for most riders on 25c tires, and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Next, the tire is inflated to its recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. After that, the tire is inflated to 1.2 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Finally, the tire is inflated to 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. The final number of 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure is intended to simulate such extreme conditions as hitting a square edge or a pothole at high speed causing the tire pressure to increase suddenly. If the tire has been able to withstand the four pressures for 24 hours respectively without blowing off, it passes the CADEX high pressure tolerance test. For your own safety, please do not inflate the tire over the recommended maximum pressure or attempt to replicate this test.
I wouldn’t trust a Conti tyre as far as I could throw it and I know very little about extradite but they get almost universally great reviews. My conclusion is you’ve got a dodgy tyre. Wouldn’t surprise me at all. I’ve had several from Conti. But they’ll never admit it.
Look on the bright side. You could be dead.
Told ya on your last video.
Hookless technology is NOT suited for 25 mm tyre.
Above 35 mm is fine.
Tubs are way to go for shure.
Agree. Continental shouldn't rate the 25 mm as hookless compatible. Like a lot of other manufacturer actually do.
I still dont understand why people would want to go 25c with hookless considering they need higher pressure to work which works against the hookless system of needing low pressure, if you want to stay with 25c, go with hook
@@SiGNALz 28mm is the size you want to go for. and easy 4,5 bar. relax
thanks for being logical and using your brain, crazy how some think 25c and hookless are a match
@@SiGNALz+1000 make no sense , but owner probably wanted to have the weight weeniest shit
Great job pointing that out
That’s nuts I was wondering about the safety so much hype I think it’s just cheaper for the manufacturers to make the rims
Crazy how it's cheaper to make, but more expensive to buy
Question: is the rim tape too wide or encroaching where the tyre bead should be?
He just got the sizes wrong and then hit it with the absolute max pressure with an inaccurate gage onto a previously damaged bead.
No, you can see from the video that tape width is perfect
Seriously? Sizes are not 'wrong' they are approved by the manufacturer. Pumps shown to be accurate.
@@CyclespeedToursconsistency is not accuracy. @Mapdec is right, you damaged the bead and maybe the wheel with the first event. I’m gonna take a stab-in-the-dark and say that I bet the wheels (designed to be the lightest possible) are out of spec.
@@Mapdec how do you know the gauge is inaccurate??? and how do you expect people to inflate their tyres???
I've been riding tubeless both road and MTB for a few years now. And since a few months I have a giant TCR with SLR 1 hookles rims with GP5000str. Install went flawlessly as usual and always run 64 psi front 65 rear. Great tires nothing wrong with it. And yes, things can go wrong! Not everything is flawless once.
Maybe if I had stayed at those pressures I would have been OK. But I wanted to try the 'max' 73psi, and this happened.
Survivor bias.
That is utterly crazy, and all the evidence you need to NOT run Hookless. My god.. Thanks for sharing.
Oh man. Ive been hookless for a few years and hooked also. Something to watch and fix by makers. This is our worst fear while descending the climbs. I'm always checking tires after each ride anyway ( was taught by old coach) . This should not happen......thanks for posting
Now we know that for booklets, you better go with 30mm tyre, and with around 55psi, 25mm is calling for trouble.
First off why 25mm, not 28mm? Second 73psi or 5bar is not the "recommended" running pressure, it is the absolute max that you should consider using. I have never run any tyre/wheel combo at the absolute max...what would be the point?
The point is you hit a pothole, and you get a blowout. With hook rims, that chance is 0. So why the heck should consumers take this risk for no reason?
I don’t even run regular tubeless anymore lol I got tired of the crap and maintenance and the mess. I’m using TPU and clinchers only. Just as light just as fast and so much easier to maintain.
Why was my previous post deleted? Trying again without mentioned brands and source to buy tpu. :(
I only use tubulars , I’ve had a couple of blowouts over the years , one was 45mph downhill, tyre stayed on as I gently came to a stop👌🏻
Why are people falling for this crap like hookless rims and tubeless tyres .
Come on guys fucking wise up!!!! sometimes things were invented correctly first time, use tubular tyres and rim brakes and you won’t go far wrong.
That is super scary. Should I not ride GP5000 or those particular wheels?
You can’t say ”don’t buy hookless” when you have only tested one set of wheels with one set of tires. But I guess it attracts more views
One set of certified hookless wheels with one set of certified hookless compatible tyres failing should be enough for any sane person to have doubts. Especially since this is not an isolated incident. Someone mentioned an accident during Giro Donne this year, have a look at that one.
Exactly!
Hi,
Thanks so much for posting this, confirms my own beleif in the failings of hookless rims. Thank your Biking Guardian Angel for not allowing this to happen on the road. Be well.
My mechanic (who is also a mechanic for our national team, so I would believe he knows this stuff) told me that Conti GP5000 are crap for hookless and told me not to bring him these tires as he will refuse to mount them. I never had any issues with my hookless setup with Giant rims and Giant tires. I switched to Schwalbe pro one TLE and had no issues with that as well, going since February this year. I'm a 100kg as well, so not a lightweight in any sense. I would say that the tires are at fault here, especially considering how it actually blew up with all the parts around.
How would you know this if you didn't have access to a "Pro" mechanic ? And are you happy with a limited tire choice (despite not knowing what those choices really are) ?
Commenter speaks the truth. Fellow Giant Tcr owner with slr1 wheelset. Gp5000 on list that didn't hold up to testing on hookless. I am schwalbe Pro 0 user as well as they are on tested list by giant not had a problem.
@@Finx5008reading will do the job...
Just because you had no issues with Giant rims and Giant tyres doesn't automatically make them safe. Watch Giro Donne 2023 stage 6, rider crashes at speed because her hookless tubeless wank explodes in a straight line. She was riding Giant bike on Giant (CADEX) rims and Giant tyres.
@channul4887 never seen tubulars roll off a rim? Worst crash of my life was from someone elses(not flat) tubular rolling off their rim.
A very convincing video, Thank you!
Thanks
Thank you for the video I will avoid hookless.
Thank you: been thinking about trying tubeless, but this gives me pause.
I’m always one who loves new tech, but I have zero inclination to go hookless on road bikes!
Love my hookless wheels. I just don't run them over 60psi.
Exactly, I always love a new bike tech, but I will never change my hooked rims and latex tubes and I run 32mm tyres on road.
@martinkroutil it won't be long before quality clinchers are no longer being manufactured. There will heavy/slow, low end tires for at least a couple decades though
@@martinkroutil I’m happy trying tubeless, although I’m on my first ever tubeless set up so time will tell if I stick with it. But I consider that a question of faff, hookless to me just doesn’t seem to offer any advantage to me yet limits (quite significantly!) what I can do with tyre and pressure choice
@@veganpotterthevegan given tubeless tyres are clinchers I can’t see a time in the near future that they’ll stop being made! Unless there’s a sudden weird swing back to tubulars 😂😂
I didnt hear you say what size tyre that was?
25mm
Very useful video; thanks for posting. You seem to have concluded that the issue is with the tire rather than the hookless wheel, which is entirely possible; I have purchased GP 5000s that were defective (one I bought in 2020 was bit "lumpy" in my case; annoying but not unsafe). However, I abandoned tubeless tires in general a while ago, and I will never use hookless rims on a bicycle. Hookless rims obviously work well with cars, with pressures around 30 psi (2 bar) and massive wheels and very thick, steel-reinforced tires, but I personally like to ride road bikes on 28-32 mm tires at higher pressures, 80-90 psi (5-6 bar), and, as you've dramatically demonstrated, thinner, less substantial hookless wheels and tires, at much higher pressures, are not a very good idea. I'll stick with clinchers for now, thanks.
Good idea!
Hookless works on MTBs too ( 1,5 - 2,0 bar , 30mm inner width for 60+mm tires)
I explicitely bought these very expensive tyres for my gravel/CX bike because I found out about hookless rims Continental said these were ok for hookless rims.
Running them at 4bar, but with tubes, does that make any difference?
I noticed the tyres seem to have stretched a lot after a couple of months: I had been worried I might not be able to change an inner tube when having a flat on a ride, because they were really hard to install. But when I had my first puncture, I could install the tyre without even having to use a tyre lever.
I guess, I'll look for new wheels asap. With hooked rims.
Wrong tyre to the wrong rim...
yup
I have ZIPP 303se. No problems with Pro One tyres. You’ve had a faulty batch of tyres. Hookless are perfectly safe.
There are many videos online across multiple wheel and tyre brands.
Been running hookless tubeless for 4 years. I'm 82 kg at 4 Bars, 28mm, Orange Seal sealant, Zipp 303s wheelset. No issues.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR STORY. BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED TO YOU EVERYTHING IS OK!
Same here with 404 FC. When I hear things like "top it up to 5bar" shit is programmed to happen, especially when riding in hot conditions and you dont consider expansion of air within the tire🤦 People need to inform themselves before arguing hookless bla bla is dangerous. The margin of error is definitely less than on hooked wheels but that's not an excuse to say they are dangerous. I've even put the 25mm S TR in front and rode down Timmelsjoch with 100kph and nothing happened. I can't hear it anymore 🙄
Are you somewhat deaf? He clearly demonstrates that 4bar is fine and it blows off at 5 despite beeing within the factory limits of tire and wheelset. So no one cares if you ride with 4 bars (which is slow as fuck for your weight).
If it states 5 bar as max then it should be able to take 5 bar in a cool static situation
I'm pretty sure that most of your gauge error is due to air loss connecting and removing the pumps and gauge.
Probably about 1 psi, yes.
GP5000 25mm is listed as not compatible in zipp's hookless compatibility chart. Properly with good reason 😊
Good find. Where is compatibility chart? Thank you
The old TL is, the TR is not. So the TR should work fine.
Why test this with fluid in the wheel and in the kitchen?
I was not expecting a violent blowoff, just, perhaps , a mild 'burp'.
@@CyclespeedTours ok 😅
It could be a manufacturing problem with the rim our tire,
same happened to me with my 28 mm conti 5000 str on zipp 353 nsw.The tire was relatively easy to mount, compared to the front which I needed to use a tire jack. Happened after a 75 km race, 15 degreeC, drizzle/rain during the race and I had the pressure set to 60 psi. Thankfully, nothing happened during the race. I set the bike besides the start finish. The tire popped with the sound of gun shot a few minutes after and everyone was shocked. The shop sent the tire to Conti a month ago, still waiting for reply. I think there is manufacturing variance accounting for the difference in difficulty mounting the two tires. I bought the two 28 mm str from the same LBS.
Very interesting. It seems that the tyre has to be an absolute bitch to mount or you could be in trouble....
Exact same setup, and just happened to me. I think it's the conti tires. I swear if that was me descending and the front popped off, I'd be dead.
In my case it was the wheels, just a touch too small.@@MarkRainer-f8t
Lesson learned kids, don't jump on Marketing PR hype for "new" stuff. You will be the beta tester for it..
think he bought them more for the lightest rim bla bla than hookless tough ...
@@moserroman2083 it's silly to even poke a hook less rim with a stick, there is zero industry using them. Unfortunately cycling has washed off engineering departments with little control on their quality/safety of their proposals. Hence bad designs plague the market now,as everyone tries to be innovative to the expense of the user. I am not surprised that cycling is losing margin over the pie of sports that people do. Unsafe, and super expensive.
I'm on a hooked tubeless rim. Carrying tire levers on a ride is not the end of the world. I am very happy that the GP5000S TR is WAAAAAYYYY easier to mount than the previous tubeless model.
A nice experiment to try on these would be to mount them with a latex or TPU tube and inflate to 120 psi and leave them for a few days to see if they will jump off the rim. If it does, suspect that the tire or rim is not properly sized.
I'm sorry, I don't follow your argument. The pressure forces within the tire stay the same whether it's via a bladder or not.
Jeez, i just checked out your video .I traded my Campagnolo bora 45wto for tubular version. I was regretting the trade because the cost in material acetone and glue .after seeing your video i rather deal with pain ass maintenance and be safe decending downhill .than take the chance of serious accident all because marketing. Sorry that happened to you.
I still have tubular Bora Ultras - great wheels.
The problem isn't with the rim type, it's that you're pumping too much pressure. This technology is dangerous when using high pressure with narrow tire! Dot.
If you want to follow the 105% rule, this technology is not for you, forget it.
If you take a 25mm mtb rim and put a 2.2 inch mtb tire there, then pump 4,5-5 atmospheres, absolutely the same thing will happen (tested on my maxxis ikon tires LOL).
In your case with CyberDisc 339 rims, I would use 30-32mm tires and would not risk with 28mm, and avoid 25mm!!!
Agree
And yet, the 25mm is fully approved and to 6.5 bar max......
HOLY SHIIIIT, Thank fuck you weren't out on the road, that could have put you in SERIOUS danger.
That's a MAJOR safety issue.
Indeed.
Have you measured the outer diameter of the rims to check if they were within specs? Can you recreate this with another tire sample of GP5000 STR?
Slightly out of spec should not matter, there is supposed to be a 'margin of safety' built into engineered goods.
An important component like the tyre/wheel should be engineered to fail safe, not blow up! Stop looking for excuses ..
You're a brave man, I would have been hiding behind the counter pumping it up.
I have a repair shop and I stopped doing road tubeless altogether. 8-10 are impossible or near impossible to seat (I see random wheels random tires from all companies).
Of the 2 that Might seat up it is high pressure scary to get it done. And the sealant just can't seal well at pressures over 60, it just sprays out.
How light does a bike need to be?
He had no idea it was going to blow like that. Newer play with pressure vessels, unless you know how to keep safe! (nice demo tho)
@@clickbait2000 I know, I watched the video. But I've also been near to people who blew low pressure tires off the rim and it's not fun.
If people are that concerned about weight they can use TPU tubes.
Why risk your life on hookless when their is a perfectly good product people have been using for ages. These bike companies are terrible pushing this crap.
Apparently continental says that GP5000 tubeless are not to be used with any kind of hookless rim….
This is from an article on bike radar from 2020!
That's the old TL, the TR is approved.
The problem with hookless rims is that it relies way too heavily on the tire bead having zero stretch. If you get a defective tire, or the tire gets compromised over time, this is how it will fail. I'd bet that the front tire had a manufacturing defect, and the rear tire wouldn't do the same, but it's a matter of chance, and there is no way to tell by inspecting it.
The setup I've been able use with confidence is gp5000 s tr 28mm tires on 24mm ID hooked rims, with inserts, at ~60psi/4bar. This is after I had a front blowout last year on the same rims and Vittoria Corsas, no inserts, that landed me in the hospital with some broken bones.
The safest solution, and probably the lightest, too would be a tubeless tubular construction. Challange actually makes one, but it's for CX.
@johnnycab8986 As I mentioned in my first comment. Last year, I had a blowout on a hooked setup and much less pressure, too. Hooked rims are not good enough for tubeless tires either. It works with tubes, but it doesn't do much for blowouts on tubeless, and that's why I like to use inserts.
@johnnycab8986 its not like tires haven't blown off of hooked rims
Tubular has always and will always be the gold standard
@rattila13 tires come off of rims with tubes too. The advantage with tubeless(insert or not) is that you have more time to address a flat in nearly ass scenarios while a disproportionate number of tubed flats are immediate or close to immediate.
@dickieblench5001 tubulars are now the slowest tire option and companies are making less and less of them for good reason. Also, numerous people have crashed due to rolled tubulars, including me, even though it wasn't my wheel with the rolled tubular🤣
On my zipp wheels I pumped my tire up to the max pressure of 70 psi to seat my bead, it seated and sealant sealed the bead but when pressing lightly on the side wall of the tire is would spray sealant at me, this confused me because at max pressure you should have a tight seal on the bead, anyway it was because the tire was stretching and when I lowered to 60psi it actually became a tight fit and I couldn't flex the bead in.
I have hookless gravel rims because they're meant to be more impact resistance and it felt sensible with my fat ass. 40psi though; essentially what MTB has been doing for years. Wouldn't run hookless on road wheels though, it just feels like an accident waiting to happen (narrower tyres, higher pressure, high speed cornering, questionable tolerances of both tyres and rims...).
In fact it's crazy brands are selling such wheels, because all my Italian friends still inflate their tyres rock hard. If they ran these they'd basically blow up.
That’s mental!!! As a heavy rider myself at 90kg I would without doubt have inflated those to the max psi. Scare to think how easy it would be to roll the tire off the rim in corners at lower pressures.
WTF! That is realy scary, but thanks for the documentation of this failure! Great to see you in one piece..
I use 36er Cadex with the Conti 5000s TR 25mm at or around 4bar without any problems. But seeing this let me thinking about...
You shound, becouse 25c Cont S TR support only 21mm inner, Cadex have 22,4 mm. Change to 28 and get more Areo and comfort and speed
@@bartoszbruhn4577 lol at "more comfort". You won't feel the difference of 3mm on the road, it's just too little. Especially since tires react too fast to bumps (they compress really fast). Comfort comes from compliance and pretty much the only one that matters is your seatpost. Stop buying into the bs the bike industry wants to sell just so they can skip a bit of money in the manufacturing process
@@pl4free lol just go for 19,4 inner with 25c tubeless to 22,4 inner with 28c tubless and it feels like Gravel. Lol
I use Zipp 404 Firecrest & Cadex 65's. The Zipp's with Continental GP 5000 ASTR & Cadex with Goodyear F1 R 25mm front & 28mm rear. I've never had a problem with either set.
Buying new bike, and after changing rims on clincher tubeless wheels or with TPU tubes.
Tubulars for the win 🥇
Wow, that's frightening as hell. So grateful that it didn't happen to you out on the road.
Just get some DuraAce C50's or C35's. Great wheels and HOOKED.
Or tubular