As mentioned, one of the most common questions asked and sometimes even from experienced shooters. 'Shake rattle and roll'... none of that is good when shooting and "shaking" is what I see sometimes with folks who believe they can 'crush' (and I use Captain of Crush and especially the smaller one for those three fingers of the trigger finger hand gripping firmly) the grip. Ain't gonna happen. Simple answer for me is "grip the gun tightly enough that you maintain full control of the gun (thus reducing the likelyhood of losing it in close combat) but not so hard that your hand is quivering. I especially see the 'quiver' on one handed shooters who again feel that they have to crush the grip. The 'quiver' point is absolutely PERSONAL, varies from shooter to shooter but if you quiver you miss. As John points out, gotta train to find that spot but you cannot crush the grip so trying may induce waiver and oops, a miss. Train hard! Only way to survive.
Practice, practice, practice..... the MantisX is great because it gives 100% objective "fruit" of my practice. .....and I need to practice more. 😜👍 Thanks for sharing another good lesson John. 😎👊 Be safe! Randy
Ive been watching these videos and they truly help so much at the range. By having that understanding of exactly whats going on and what to expect when i pull that trigger. And its not so much where hold but how well you can handle the action of that gun. You can aim with your eye closed if you master the gun.
Dry firing is not a good indication of proper “grip pressure” dry firing is great for grip structure but you’ll never truly know how much grip pressure each hands needs until you live fire. All dry firing is looking for a clean trigger pull WITHOUT recoil. Once you add the explosion of the powder going off in your hands the force from the projectile will travel through all your imperfections and manipulate the muzzle long before the bullet ever leaves the barrel. Dry firing is great for muscle memory but don’t expect anything out of grip pressure from it.
I think I'm going to get myself one of these for Christmas and see if it can help me out a bit. On a side note, I'm curious what the purpose of racking the slide after each shot is with that gun (H&K P30?). Thanks.
50% strong/50% weak. Build strength, don't think about how much pressure when shooting. Apply a comfortable amount without crushing it and shaking. The stronger you are the more pressure you will naturally apply. The best exercise I have found is to hang from a pullup bar with one hand at a time. I can hang for 30 seconds on both arms. I have the same grip pressure scale as in the video. I just pulled 148 pounds and I am 51 years old and weight 168 pounds.
This will show you how you can manipulate your trigger finger with those pressures for the first shot. I would highly suggest that you respond to and race a timer to press the trigger as fast as you can. That will add stress/ tension that will help you see if your grip pressures are helping you at speed. This exercise teaches you nothing about how different grip pressures will affect your recoil management and repeatability of having your sights/dot return to target. If you are interested in self-protection instead of bullseye shooting, you should be working those two drills instead of this one IMO. The Mantis X10-elite has a recoilimeter that helps track the gun movement in recoil during live fire. Shooting doubles or bill drills (6 rounds fast) and paying very close attention to where and how much pressure you are applying to the gun and trying to find the grip/ pressure combo that gives you a quick and repeatable return of the sights to the target is important for accuracy at speed and under stress.
This was really interesting. I took 30 years off guns, not owning a gun, or firing a single shot. This was after my target shooting plinking guns were stolen. When I came back to shooting, I think in part because my grip is very strong, my accuracy surprised me. I was ten times more accurate than much younger people who had been shooting several times per year, for years. It is a good sign, now that I am approaching "legally" elderly status. There is a lot to be said for staying strong. I can lift five times as much as people half my age, and that strength helps my shooting accuracy. Maybe one day I'll get a Mantis. I do have a much more inexpensive training system that I purchased used for around ten bucks, and I am very happy with it so far.
And it also helps to see that the guy giving me all this advice in these videos. Really knows what hes talking about and possibly how to get out of or avoid potential dangerous situations effectively. captain Hindsight.
*This is an interesting topic!!* I grip hard with my trigger hand and soft with my support. I feel like it's around 90% and 10%. I'd be curious what works for other shooter.
Most high level shooters grip more with their support hand and then just focus on their trigger control with their shooting hand. I find that favoring the support hand in terms of grip seems to keep my sights more consistent when dry firing. But my grip isn't something I really think about anymore, and even small guns like my P365 stay locked in.
I think you should take into consideration the direction of pressure. On the dominant hand I think you should put more pressure on the side of the grip and the non dominant hand should have more pressure on the front and back of the grip. Or vice versa
@@mboudreaux94 not gonna argue. Try any guns off a bench rest and make sure to chrono your loads. Reduces standard deviation greatly and that in turn increases accuracy. Match grade ammo is mostly dependent on SD. $10 for a bottle that lasts a year is barely anything cost-wise and if you don't like it, you're not out anything.
(Michael Boudreaux - I literally thought the same thing) Any chance the 50 rounds of practice improved your skill/grouping? I can guarantee the accuracy of a handgun is going to rely on the shooter and not oil.
@@bryanw4582 probably about 800 rounds through a g43 before i used the stuff. Most guns can shoot better than their users no doubt but the inherent accuracy of a firearm itself depends on the ammunition and the level of maintenance. Ammunition was the same lot WWB 115gr fmj from a 1000rd case and gun was fired from a sandbag rest.
Did you have a control? Did you test with different oils? Did you use a pistol vise to eliminate all chances of the accuracy being related to you on that day and not the pistol? You gotta present a much more comprehensive argument than, I put oil on my gun and it shot better.
As mentioned, one of the most common questions asked and sometimes even from experienced shooters. 'Shake rattle and roll'... none of that is good when shooting and "shaking" is what I see sometimes with folks who believe they can 'crush' (and I use Captain of Crush and especially the smaller one for those three fingers of the trigger finger hand gripping firmly) the grip. Ain't gonna happen. Simple answer for me is "grip the gun tightly enough that you maintain full control of the gun (thus reducing the likelyhood of losing it in close combat) but not so hard that your hand is quivering. I especially see the 'quiver' on one handed shooters who again feel that they have to crush the grip. The 'quiver' point is absolutely PERSONAL, varies from shooter to shooter but if you quiver you miss. As John points out, gotta train to find that spot but you cannot crush the grip so trying may induce waiver and oops, a miss. Train hard! Only way to survive.
I still practice the basics like this all the time. Thank you John.
Practice, practice, practice..... the MantisX is great because it gives 100% objective "fruit" of my practice.
.....and I need to practice more. 😜👍
Thanks for sharing another good lesson John. 😎👊
Be safe!
Randy
Always covering the basics that a lot of people forget about, thanks John.
Ive been watching these videos and they truly help so much at the range. By having that understanding of exactly whats going on and what to expect when i pull that trigger. And its not so much where hold but how well you can handle the action of that gun. You can aim with your eye closed if you master the gun.
Dry firing is not a good indication of proper “grip pressure” dry firing is great for grip structure but you’ll never truly know how much grip pressure each hands needs until you live fire. All dry firing is looking for a clean trigger pull WITHOUT recoil. Once you add the explosion of the powder going off in your hands the force from the projectile will travel through all your imperfections and manipulate the muzzle long before the bullet ever leaves the barrel. Dry firing is great for muscle memory but don’t expect anything out of grip pressure from it.
The beauty of the Mantis is you get real feedback to see the difference different shooting styles make.
I think I'm going to get myself one of these for Christmas and see if it can help me out a bit. On a side note, I'm curious what the purpose of racking the slide after each shot is with that gun (H&K P30?). Thanks.
LEM trigger is SA/DA and you will always shoot it SA in a gunfight. So resetting the trigger is wise.
you didn't talk about breathing ... but I could tell that you were thinking about it ...
is that in a different video ... kind of new on your channel.
Yeah I do occasionally.
50% strong/50% weak. Build strength, don't think about how much pressure when shooting. Apply a comfortable amount without crushing it and shaking. The stronger you are the more pressure you will naturally apply. The best exercise I have found is to hang from a pullup bar with one hand at a time. I can hang for 30 seconds on both arms. I have the same grip pressure scale as in the video. I just pulled 148 pounds and I am 51 years old and weight 168 pounds.
Probably the best advice here.
This will show you how you can manipulate your trigger finger with those pressures for the first shot. I would highly suggest that you respond to and race a timer to press the trigger as fast as you can. That will add stress/ tension that will help you see if your grip pressures are helping you at speed. This exercise teaches you nothing about how different grip pressures will affect your recoil management and repeatability of having your sights/dot return to target. If you are interested in self-protection instead of bullseye shooting, you should be working those two drills instead of this one IMO. The Mantis X10-elite has a recoilimeter that helps track the gun movement in recoil during live fire. Shooting doubles or bill drills (6 rounds fast) and paying very close attention to where and how much pressure you are applying to the gun and trying to find the grip/ pressure combo that gives you a quick and repeatable return of the sights to the target is important for accuracy at speed and under stress.
It's not an either-or.
Ordered my Mantis yesterday, cant wait for it to come in ^.^
Let us know how you like it!
I haven't heard free body diagram since college. Great stuff.
This was really interesting. I took 30 years off guns, not owning a gun, or firing a single shot. This was after my target shooting plinking guns were stolen. When I came back to shooting, I think in part because my grip is very strong, my accuracy surprised me. I was ten times more accurate than much younger people who had been shooting several times per year, for years. It is a good sign, now that I am approaching "legally" elderly status. There is a lot to be said for staying strong. I can lift five times as much as people half my age, and that strength helps my shooting accuracy. Maybe one day I'll get a Mantis. I do have a much more inexpensive training system that I purchased used for around ten bucks, and I am very happy with it so far.
Get yourself some captains of crush grippers. You'll get the #1 (140lbs to close) in no time. You're pretty close already.
And it also helps to see that the guy giving me all this advice in these videos. Really knows what hes talking about and possibly how to get out of or avoid potential dangerous situations effectively. captain Hindsight.
You can tell you just trained with Steve Fisher
Tell me how. :) I did, and have.
Active Self Protection Extra Grip was my main takeaway from Sentinel Concepts.
Thanks for another great video. Keep educating the public. It is a greater calling.
Thanks!
👍
*This is an interesting topic!!* I grip hard with my trigger hand and soft with my support. I feel like it's around 90% and 10%. I'd be curious what works for other shooter.
Most high level shooters grip more with their support hand and then just focus on their trigger control with their shooting hand. I find that favoring the support hand in terms of grip seems to keep my sights more consistent when dry firing. But my grip isn't something I really think about anymore, and even small guns like my P365 stay locked in.
I think you should take into consideration the direction of pressure. On the dominant hand I think you should put more pressure on the side of the grip and the non dominant hand should have more pressure on the front and back of the grip. Or vice versa
Just the opposite. The dominant hand grips front to back. The support hand grips side to side.
Hey john, try spartan accuracy oil. My groups shrank by about 2 inches within 50rds no joke.
The literal definition of snake oil lmao
@@mboudreaux94 not gonna argue. Try any guns off a bench rest and make sure to chrono your loads. Reduces standard deviation greatly and that in turn increases accuracy. Match grade ammo is mostly dependent on SD. $10 for a bottle that lasts a year is barely anything cost-wise and if you don't like it, you're not out anything.
(Michael Boudreaux - I literally thought the same thing)
Any chance the 50 rounds of practice improved your skill/grouping?
I can guarantee the accuracy of a handgun is going to rely on the shooter and not oil.
@@bryanw4582 probably about 800 rounds through a g43 before i used the stuff. Most guns can shoot better than their users no doubt but the inherent accuracy of a firearm itself depends on the ammunition and the level of maintenance. Ammunition was the same lot WWB 115gr fmj from a 1000rd case and gun was fired from a sandbag rest.
Did you have a control? Did you test with different oils? Did you use a pistol vise to eliminate all chances of the accuracy being related to you on that day and not the pistol?
You gotta present a much more comprehensive argument than, I put oil on my gun and it shot better.