Comment section always so helpful on these videos, full of gems of ideas and info. In this video alone; heating the felt with a hair dryer to help it stay flat, using a roller to create a good bond, using track screws instead of pins, where to get the felt, what the points user are and using felt in a garden railway (brilliant idea because it will obviously be water proof). Always so helpful and I’m getting a lot ideas. Its been worth coming back to many of the previous videos and reading the comment section. Brilliant stuff here. I loved the painted roofing felt in another video, think it was painted grey under the track, really good look.
Great informative video again, but forgive me I think there is a much easier way to do this.. As I watched you trimming and adjusting the felt round the layout features, it gave me an idea... why not just layout a single piece across the whole board then lay component parts on top? This will save any joints or adjustments, and will aid holding the felt down.
I have used roofing shingles before, they work great leaving the tracks clear of rubble. A black sharpie or marks a lot provides the appearance of oil stained ballast under the tracks as well...
Thanks for commenting. I find its so much quicker and also easier for points , we are still having trouble with our exhibition layout that's ballasted , every time we move it we seem to get more bits loose!
My late father built my brother and myself a large double track loop over and loop under 32 Foot circuit Super 4 layout back in 1972 totally ballasted with roofing felt. It gave a great effect and had some noise dampening properties. The layout also had a central hump shunting good yard. The felt was held down with large head grey galvanised roofing felt nails which blended in with the felt.
Good idea and the thickness saves on road bed as well.Another method I've used on many shelf layouts over the year's is to lay sheets of bird cage sand all over.Just stick down with dilute white glue or wallpaper paste.Can be brush,roller or spray painted to represent any colour ballast you like.Use emulsion paint ( latex to any Americans reading this).This is an easy,dry ,no mess method so you keep in wifeys good books!.John Bailey.
I think this is brilliant, absolutely superb idea and I will definitely be using this on my layout.... I noticed a pop up to make your videos better... would you be able to put a link up to where you get various items like the roofing felt? That would help a lot.
This kinda reminds me... If it's not been mentioned already, perhaps elsewhere, I'm using laminated flooring/lino underlay for my track bed and thanks to a 2 for 1 offer I got 30 sqm for 12 or 13 quid so you could say I've got plenty but it's useful for lots of things, even with no offer it's still a bargain and works great. It's laid using the appropriate spray can flooring adhesives, under a fiver a can, and the track can be firmly fixed but still lifted with care if needed with a decent double sided tape. Ballast over it in the usual way, I'm looking at options but budgie grit is currently looking good, and being waterproof it won't absorb the watered down PVA and go completely solid like cork can so seems to retain at least some of its sound proofing qualities. The spongy stuff that comes in big rolls, it's easy enough to get 🙂
Maybe you could do a bit of dumpster (skip) diving where a roofing job is being done. Some pieces too small for the roofers might be just right for this type of project. C'mon , what could possibly go wrong?
The roofing felt looks good but maybe a bit too coarse for n gauge do you think? Would 60 grit wet and dry paper do or would there be a problem because of what’s it’s made of?
We never ballast our track we always use ballast mat aka roofing felt. Ballasting for me isn't worth all the effort and poor impact on simple reliable running
Hi, thanks very much for your informative video. I was looking for some of the grey roofing felt for a garden railway- would you mind saying where you got yours from? Many thanks, David
Many people use Britta water filters. As an N modeller, I use the contents of them as ballast for between the rails. I paint, using plastic compatible brown automobile primers paint, and then weather the rails using a black wash, then ballast; the rail height disappears. Sometimes a small paint brush will suffice to hand paint the rail sides.
Did it stay stuck down? Roofing felt is bitumen based so I wondered about which adhesive you were using, maybe a solvent based adhesive would give you a better hold?
Thanks. We have used the same technique on two exhibition layouts and our loft layout. I've also found that if you dry brush black roofing felt with light grey paint it gives a good representation of ballast
@@BudgetModelRailways Brilliant. i'm just getting back into railway modelling after a 30 year break, and I don't have much space, budget or knowledge! Your channel is such a fantastic resource.
Can I suggest when using the Stanley knife use a straight edge instead of your hand it’s a bit safer and less likely to end up cutting your fingers tendons and nerves. I saw a lot of this type injury when I worked in A&E and plastic surgery
You are right but I've been practising for 40 years so am used to it , used to cut my fingers to ribbons as a kid , so will mention it in a future video next time I use a craft knife. My problem was chopping logs , my left thumb still has the scar from that one !
After watching this video again, I took everything off the table and laid the whole thing in roofing felt I had left over from doing the shed. I only glued where the track holes were, then weighted it down with paint tins. I'll wait a few days to ensure the glue has dried. I used PVA, will it hold? Then I'll paint the felt in a lighter colour, and once that's dried re-lay the track, and then cut off the excess. I've got removal scenery, so can cut up to that. Any comments, tips etc?
Hi, yes PVA will hold it fine, using the track as a rough template is a good idea. You could try dry brushing the felt with a lighter grey which would give you a multi tonal effect possibly? I'm using roofing felt for my current N gauge two level oval layout, so my much simpler and more reliable. Some poor chap on insta has ballasted his track only too find a couple of the points have glued themselves shut. So 2 points written off and much work to repair.
Cheers for replying. I've got a tester pot of a light grey that will pass as gravel once painted onto the felt. I'm not going to paint it heavily as I want some of the darkness of the felt to come through. I'll paint the loco servicing yard in a darker grey as tarmac/hard standing. Do you have a Facebook page or email address I can send you pics once done?
Not particularly, if it's on a table etc then it should be ok. You can always add cork sheet to reduce track noise. Our loft layout on the other hand seems to echo everywhere and can be heard two floors below!
I cannot help but notice your surface mounted point motors in your video. In fact I could not fail to notice also that you were manually changing them. They look very similar to the Peco ones but I am not aware that you can use them manually. What ones are you using?
Hi they are old Lima points, they did make a few motor ones but these like most are manual. However most points including the peco and Hornby ones can be moved manually with no problems, on shunting layouts I can't be bothered with point motors.
Thanks for the heads-up on the PVA. I have been laying out the Hornby R8011 (discontinued) layout. Although it is a roundy-roundy I wanted to keep it authentic as possible and have manual points where I could. May have to settle for wired points on far side of layout!
the trouble i am finding is actually anywhere that sells it let alone any going spare, everything seems to be now in green, looks like it has to be the jarvis mats for me any views on them?
I have used the javis Mat quite a lot, I think it looks better than the Gaugemaster version personally. I've tried to get it from China but can only find grass mat.
Can the roofing felt be pinned down using a heavy duty staple gun? Maybe electric! Also my roofing felt is green, what type paint can I use to change it to grey.
Thanks for your response. I have some grey left-over when I painted the board, should work ok. I have a few builder mates so maybe they can provide the staple gun. Thanks again!
I figured as much. The trouble is, yours looks so much better than ours, which is thicker, heavier and messier. Anyway, thank you for your videos. They are very inspiring!
In the UK you can get different thicknesses of roofing felt, but the thinnest grade maybe a bit fine on the grit side, so the medium would probably the best choice.
@@heritagejunction2184 agreed, as long as you are happy that's all that matters. Some of what we do is I guess experimental, it's the only way to drive change, some will work some won't. Our hedges from pan scourers and scatter are much nicer than commercial products at a fraction of the cost. I can quite understand that many people will always prefer proper ballast. Have fun and thanks for commenting.
Sorry, 👎🏼. Where is the ballast holding the rails? Not a Rivet Counter, but my track is part of my scenery and you’re just laying track on sand. What’s next, green shag carpet for grass?
Comment section always so helpful on these videos, full of gems of ideas and info. In this video alone; heating the felt with a hair dryer to help it stay flat, using a roller to create a good bond, using track screws instead of pins, where to get the felt, what the points user are and using felt in a garden railway (brilliant idea because it will obviously be water proof). Always so helpful and I’m getting a lot ideas. Its been worth coming back to many of the previous videos and reading the comment section. Brilliant stuff here. I loved the painted roofing felt in another video, think it was painted grey under the track, really good look.
Thanks for your comments and support
Great informative video again, but forgive me I think there is a much easier way to do this.. As I watched you trimming and adjusting the felt round the layout features, it gave me an idea... why not just layout a single piece across the whole board then lay component parts on top? This will save any joints or adjustments, and will aid holding the felt down.
You are right, I did this on my latest layout , much neater, thanks for the comment
I have used roofing shingles before, they work great leaving the tracks clear of rubble. A black sharpie or marks a lot provides the appearance of oil stained ballast under the tracks as well...
Thanks for commenting. I find its so much quicker and also easier for points , we are still having trouble with our exhibition layout that's ballasted , every time we move it we seem to get more bits loose!
You have done it again . . . materials ordered and about to start a first shelf railway . . . wow . . . thanks for the help . . . Keep em coming.
Glad we could help, but its actually thanks to members like yourself
My late father built my brother and myself a large double track loop over and loop under 32 Foot circuit Super 4 layout back in 1972 totally ballasted with roofing felt. It gave a great effect and had some noise dampening properties.
The layout also had a central hump shunting good yard.
The felt was held down with large head grey galvanised roofing felt nails which blended in with the felt.
Just shows there is no such thing as an new idea!
Good idea and the thickness saves on road bed as well.Another method I've used on many shelf layouts over the year's is to lay sheets of bird cage sand all over.Just stick down with dilute white glue or wallpaper paste.Can be brush,roller or spray painted to represent any colour ballast you like.Use emulsion paint ( latex to any Americans reading this).This is an easy,dry ,no mess method so you keep in wifeys good books!.John Bailey.
Excellent idea , thanks for sharing
VVery helpful - thank you!
great tip thanks for sharing
ade
Roofing felt looks more realistic than the brand ballast. Thanks for the tip.
Your welcome
Great idea 👌
It’s a very good idea! I like it a lot and will try to use it as well!
We use it on all our layouts, including three exhibition layouts
I'm watching this in 2023. I also am testing out felt for sound deadening but without nails and using rubber cement.
I think this is brilliant, absolutely superb idea and I will definitely be using this on my layout.... I noticed a pop up to make your videos better... would you be able to put a link up to where you get various items like the roofing felt? That would help a lot.
We just get it from our local tip when people have thrown it away.
This kinda reminds me... If it's not been mentioned already, perhaps elsewhere, I'm using laminated flooring/lino underlay for my track bed and thanks to a 2 for 1 offer I got 30 sqm for 12 or 13 quid so you could say I've got plenty but it's useful for lots of things, even with no offer it's still a bargain and works great. It's laid using the appropriate spray can flooring adhesives, under a fiver a can, and the track can be firmly fixed but still lifted with care if needed with a decent double sided tape. Ballast over it in the usual way, I'm looking at options but budgie grit is currently looking good, and being waterproof it won't absorb the watered down PVA and go completely solid like cork can so seems to retain at least some of its sound proofing qualities. The spongy stuff that comes in big rolls, it's easy enough to get 🙂
Sounds great. Chinchilla dust is good as a cheap ballast
@@BudgetModelRailways *that's* what else I've been meaning to try, thank you lol 👍
Nice idea.
Thanks, take a look at our most recent videos which show a larger application of this idea
Maybe you could do a bit of dumpster (skip) diving where a roofing job is being done. Some pieces too small for the roofers might be just right for this type of project. C'mon , what could possibly go wrong?
The roofing felt looks good but maybe a bit too coarse for n gauge do you think? Would 60 grit wet and dry paper do or would there be a problem because of what’s it’s made of?
I'm guessing it should be OK?
Double cut the joint, like you do when repairing a pool table, or wallpaper.
Bob
I use a wallpaper seem roller to help get the edge down and a little pva
Great idea thanks
Lovely Jubbly.
It's a great idea but you'd need to ballast between the sleepers just to give the uneven effect.
We never ballast our track we always use ballast mat aka roofing felt. Ballasting for me isn't worth all the effort and poor impact on simple reliable running
Hi, thanks very much for your informative video. I was looking for some of the grey roofing felt for a garden railway- would you mind saying where you got yours from? Many thanks, David
Garden centres or even ebay
Budget Model Railways Many thanks !
Many people use Britta water filters. As an N modeller, I use the contents of them as ballast for between the rails. I paint, using plastic compatible brown automobile primers paint, and then weather the rails using a black wash, then ballast; the rail height disappears. Sometimes a small paint brush will suffice to hand paint the rail sides.
Excellent idea
I used to use dirt/sand from outside and glue....
Did it stay stuck down? Roofing felt is bitumen based so I wondered about which adhesive you were using, maybe a solvent based adhesive would give you a better hold?
PGA works fine but I guess most glues would be ok
Ingenious!
Thanks. We have used the same technique on two exhibition layouts and our loft layout. I've also found that if you dry brush black roofing felt with light grey paint it gives a good representation of ballast
@@BudgetModelRailways Brilliant. i'm just getting back into railway modelling after a 30 year break, and I don't have much space, budget or knowledge! Your channel is such a fantastic resource.
@@colinmasterson1604 thanks, we started 7 years ago with zero knowledge, very little budget and not much space, it's a fun learning curve
Hi mate, quick question instead of roof felt could you use coarse grade wet and dry paper?, cheers Bob
Yes that should work ok, but might be more expensive than using actual ballast mat
@@BudgetModelRailways Thanks,
I wonder if using a hair dryer or heat gun would assist in laying out the edges flat.
Good idea
Can I suggest when using the Stanley knife use a straight edge instead of your hand it’s a bit safer and less likely to end up cutting your fingers tendons and nerves. I saw a lot of this type injury when I worked in A&E and plastic surgery
You are right but I've been practising for 40 years so am used to it , used to cut my fingers to ribbons as a kid , so will mention it in a future video next time I use a craft knife. My problem was chopping logs , my left thumb still has the scar from that one !
Budget Model Railways l guess you know what your doing by now lol thanks for getting back and hopefully I’ll get to one of your exhibitions soon
After watching this video again, I took everything off the table and laid the whole thing in roofing felt I had left over from doing the shed. I only glued where the track holes were, then weighted it down with paint tins. I'll wait a few days to ensure the glue has dried. I used PVA, will it hold? Then I'll paint the felt in a lighter colour, and once that's dried re-lay the track, and then cut off the excess. I've got removal scenery, so can cut up to that. Any comments, tips etc?
Hi, yes PVA will hold it fine, using the track as a rough template is a good idea. You could try dry brushing the felt with a lighter grey which would give you a multi tonal effect possibly? I'm using roofing felt for my current N gauge two level oval layout, so my much simpler and more reliable. Some poor chap on insta has ballasted his track only too find a couple of the points have glued themselves shut. So 2 points written off and much work to repair.
Cheers for replying. I've got a tester pot of a light grey that will pass as gravel once painted onto the felt. I'm not going to paint it heavily as I want some of the darkness of the felt to come through. I'll paint the loco servicing yard in a darker grey as tarmac/hard standing. Do you have a Facebook page or email address I can send you pics once done?
@@terryglover3215 you can use our budget model railways website and also Instagram, would love to see it
Is this noisy? I like the idea but when running trains would it sound in the room below?
Not particularly, if it's on a table etc then it should be ok. You can always add cork sheet to reduce track noise. Our loft layout on the other hand seems to echo everywhere and can be heard two floors below!
Looks very nice but will the felt melt in a very hot location like a loft.? It might get very sticky!
It's been in the loft fir a year now with no problems, so should be ok?
Those shingles get to be a very high temperature on hot sunny days.
It's been in the loft all summer with no problems
great video, terrible noise!
You may get a better result using a wallpapering seam roller
Hi , can you tell me how long this baseboard and wide and thick is please ?
I no longer have it but it was approx 5ft long by 8in wide by 1/2 in deep
Hi, Have you tried small screws instead of track pins? works for me and if I need to change things you can
Hi, we have some small screws so will give it a try and see, thanks for the idea .
I am building my first layout and I am using small screws to place down my track instead of track nails, as my layout will change over time.
I cannot help but notice your surface mounted point motors in your video. In fact I could not fail to notice also that you were manually changing them. They look very similar to the Peco ones but I am not aware that you can use them manually. What ones are you using?
Hi they are old Lima points, they did make a few motor ones but these like most are manual. However most points including the peco and Hornby ones can be moved manually with no problems, on shunting layouts I can't be bothered with point motors.
Thanks for the heads-up on the PVA. I have been laying out the Hornby R8011 (discontinued) layout. Although it is a roundy-roundy I wanted to keep it authentic as possible and have manual points where I could. May have to settle for wired points on far side of layout!
the trouble i am finding is actually anywhere that sells it let alone any going spare, everything seems to be now in green, looks like it has to be the jarvis mats for me any views on them?
I have used the javis Mat quite a lot, I think it looks better than the Gaugemaster version personally. I've tried to get it from China but can only find grass mat.
about to give up and buy the javis mats is it the extra fine granite that you used
Hi, I've only ever seen one type so I'm guessing so?
Can the roofing felt be pinned down using a heavy duty staple gun? Maybe electric! Also my roofing felt is green, what type paint can I use to change it to grey.
A staple gun would probably work, you could try very emulsion as its cheap?
That should have been grey emulsion!
Thanks for your response. I have some grey left-over when I painted the board, should work ok. I have a few builder mates so maybe they can provide the staple gun. Thanks again!
I found a good quality PVA will stick the roofing felt to wood as long as it's weighted down while it dries
I would be interested if you could tell me what PVA it is. Thanks.
Does anybody know what this material is called in the US? Thanks. Great video.
I think it's called shingles? It's what we use to put a roof on a timber shed
I figured as much. The trouble is, yours looks so much better than ours, which is thicker, heavier and messier. Anyway, thank you for your videos. They are very inspiring!
Thanks that's very kind,mthanks for the support
In the UK you can get different thicknesses of roofing felt, but the thinnest grade maybe a bit fine on the grit side, so the medium would probably the best choice.
What colour shouls you use Black or Grey ?
Which ever you prefer
Which ever you prefer
Great video. Hate the muzak and it's too loud!
Hi, yes we have moved on a bit since then sound wise.
Roof material should be applied using construction caulking.
PVA glue works just fine, esp if weight is applied while it drys
what roof felt is it
Whatever you can get hold of cheap that looks right
i cant find this for under £5..
Roofing felt where I am is super expensive.
It's expensive, but much cheaper per foot than buying ballast mat. To be honest I had some left over from roofing a shed so it cost me nothing.
Sorry had a look no comparison to using ballast it's quick and looks that way.
Regards
David
It's easier and simpler. After all that's why manufacturers supply ballast mat for the same reason. it won't suit everyone but it works for me
@@BudgetModelRailways absolutely I'm a firm believer each to his own.
Regards
David
@@heritagejunction2184 agreed, as long as you are happy that's all that matters. Some of what we do is I guess experimental, it's the only way to drive change, some will work some won't. Our hedges from pan scourers and scatter are much nicer than commercial products at a fraction of the cost. I can quite understand that many people will always prefer proper ballast. Have fun and thanks for commenting.
Sorry, 👎🏼. Where is the ballast holding the rails? Not a Rivet Counter, but my track is part of my scenery and you’re just laying track on sand. What’s next, green shag carpet for grass?
Why not, green felt looks good. It's not all about realism, it's also about fun. If ballast mat is so odd why do 2 major manufacturers produce it?!