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@@faz8169 it is a train replacement service. And they only have 40 of the 200 drivers needed. So much for Minns Australian Made campaign because these are Chinese buses.
As a resident of the Bankstown line, I appreciate you covering the full breadth of Sydney. The _Sydney_ Morning Herald believes Sydney ends at Erskineville.
With the low patronage recorded on the T8 feeder routes, it's also important to note that we were in lockdown when those routes ran so patronage figures may not be the same if we brought back those routes now.
That actually aged either well or badly, depending on how you interpret the news that they’re reviving the T6 label for a small shuttle when works start
Across the Ditch in Auckland, we recently change our West Auckland Bus Network from Direct Service Network to Connective and it has lead to increase bus usage, and train usage
You mention it briefly, but it's interesting that if anyone wants to travel towards or away from the city, they are more likely to use public transport, but if they have to go across (vertically in your diagrams) they basically have to drive. This is also true if the trip is mostly towards or away from the city but some small part of it would go "across" train lines. A bus service would mean more people could use public transport. In general though, a major problem I see is that bus service is incredibly spotty in Sydney, the whole "no buses for 2 hours and then 5 buses in a row", we would really need to carve out bus lanes everywhere to get reliable bus transport.
Orbital routes are perfect for light rail. Higher capacity and (potentially) faster than busses while much cheaper than a full fledged heavy rail line.
A tram service ran from Glebe Point cross country to Coogee Beach via Randwick, and a successor bus service still does, although passing through Newtown and West Kensington which the tram didn't do. Seems to be well patronised.
This is because the rail network has been playing catch up since the 70s. There are no bypass routes which avoid the city and provide orbital connections across the major lines, something every other well developed transit network has, be it Paris, London, Tokyo, or Moscow. A Strathfield-Belmore-Kingsgrove-Hurstville line will probably see a lot of patronage and introduce the idea of lines which don't have to cross into the city centre.
This is actually an interesting part of transit design. Most cities that get praised for their trains, London for example, have lines that don't just circle to the CBD. Their lines look more like spider webs where every line goes and connects basically everywhere. Historically, the circle was used because cities weren't that big but now, more and more planners are transitioning towards the web-like design because it's more efficient and fast.
As a Campsie resident, I'd propose a bus to Strathfield, so close to Burwood but enabling access to the express city services that next stop at Redfern
Another suggestion: each station on the T3 is less than a 15 minute bike ride from the nearest station on the T2 or T8 - pop-up bike lanes and Opal-locked bike cages like the ones at Redfern and Epping could be a great solution too!
I thought most of the stations on the T2 line from Lidcombe to Strathfield belong to the Cumberland/Strathfield councils? And T8 stations from Wolli Creek to Kogarah belong to Bayside and CB council?
This reminds me of the Armadale line shutdown here in Perth. They’ve shut the line for more than a year to revamp it and upgrade it. Luckily there has been investment and much planning for the train replacement bus services but journey times on that portion has still sky rocketed.
> journey times have skyrocketed Problem is, there's not really a parallel rail route for the Armadale line replacement buses to use like there is in Sydney.
There are already buses between the closed and open lines. It's not a lot faster, unless your bus arrives at destination right as the train is about to pull in.
Look Mum! I made it on a Building Beautifully video! In all seriousness, this is a great video! I wish they would do something similar to StationLink. When the Epping-Chatswood Rail Link closed when that line was converted to the Metro, there were 7 ultra high frequency bus services with huge temporary bus stops. They also built dedicated new buses which after the Metro was opened were used for local routes. It was basically a temporary BRT system. There was 1 main route from Epping to Chatswood, but the other routes went to stations like Eastwood, Beecroft, and St Leonards so that Epping and Chatswood weren’t too congested. Unfortunately they’re not doing the same with the T3 closure where these fundamental standards are even more important. And I think we’ll find out very quickly that it’ll be a mistake to arrange the buses as they are now.
5:20 I grew up in the Bankstown area and used that line a lot, a lot of people are just going to use the T8 line at stations like Revesby, Padstow and East Hills anyway. A lot of people in the area use those lines anyway since they've always had more trains running and have way more limited stop trains during peak hour. If I still lived there I would just make the switch and use East Hills instead of the usual Yagoona, because no one in Bankstown walks to their local train station anyway.
Yes it's a problem the first few stops and starts, but then you adjust and find some way to brace your body. Also you know you're heading to your destination quicker which makes it all worth it in the end. Don't quote me on the second part tho
Based on how the buses replaced trains on the Chatswood to Epping line was run, stop exageration of the Bankstown line closure. They did an excellent job of working with traffic and stakeholders. Just like you do Sharef.
I travel from campsie to st leonards. On the way to work I'll get the replacement bus/ train from sydenham, change at central or town hall - it takes an hour. On the way back Ill get the train to strathfield, change for the train back to burwood and then get the 410/420/490/492 to Campsie - it takes up to 1h30. I am seriously considering moving for 12 months to the north shore cause that's just stuffed! I used to live in chippo and work in surry Hills and it was a 7min drive to work or half hour walk
8:30 those times seem to assume a quick connection between the bus and the train on the Airport & South Line (er, sorry; "T8" Line). In reality, just a couple of minutes delay by the bus may mean a 15 minute wait on the station platform for the next train. Remember what a Sydney Trains staff person once told a passenger (er, sorry, "customer") "We run trains, not connections". Also, those designations "T1, T3" etc mean bugger all; some NSW Transport bureaucrat probably came up with that to justify their job. Thank God London still calls its older lines names like "Hammersmith & City line", etc.
Bankstown has already had buses go to other Lines, such as Revesby, Parramatta & Sutherland. Campsie & Burwood have already had bus connections via Burwood Road, to Airport.
I don't always agree with what you say in your videos or your ideas and views but I really do appreciate the amount of effort and time into research and script writing you but into each of your videos.
Thanks for an interesting video. I used to live at Marrickville on the Bankstown line and I can really identify with this situation. It will be interesting to see how the replacement buses handle things during the twelve months Sydney Trains closure. Hopefully, it will all run smoothly for everyone concerned. The current bus line from Marrickville to the city is Route 423, starting at Earlwood. I shudder to see how this service will handle all the extra passengers for twelve months. I remember seeing utter chaos having to use them to get to the city during train strikes, which mostly would only last a few days, with the exception of one infamous eleven day train strike, which occurred in the late 1970s. To get to the city from Marrickville by the standard bus routes without any trains running, involves catching a bus to Earlwood and back, just to make it possible to get on the bus which is always packed in peak times. The other option is to walk from Marrickville to Dulwich Hill and catch a bus (or light rail these days) into the city. Fortunately, there will be trains from Sydenham. So, that makes it just a bit easier. Still, I think passengers on the Bankstown line may be in for a rough twelve months. Your suggestion about talking buses to other working train stations is absolutely brilliant. I am amazed the state transport people don't try this idea. It would be far better than just following the Bankstown train line all the way, which could even be an extra problem between Marrickville and Sydenham, where they would have to follow up along Illawarra Road and then turn into Marrickville Road, sharing with heavy traffic and other standard bus routes.
Hopefully they will organize the buses better than today. At Sydenham the replacement buses and their stops were poorly marked and you had to walk all alongside the station to know what the options were. As for the shutdown, I expect a lot of people will drive to another line rather than get replacement buses. I'm sure they decided not to bus people to other lines because it means more profits for the bus companies! I am in Canterbury and its certainly easier to get a bus to Ashfield when the trains are out on the T3 line than to get a replacement bus.
The issue is they are only considered people travelling to and from the city. My dad who lives in Canterbury and works in villawood catches the 491 to Ashfield and then train to villawood. So if they could increase local north south bus frequencies it would also help.
Want an example of every bus going to the CBD? Enter, Brisbane! The westside has literally every bus from the suburbs going down the main corridor into the city. When there's a train line adjacent. Then bus frequency out to the suburbs is rubbish
What the heck, RUclips? I go "hey I haven't seen a Building Beautifully video in a while, I wonder if I missed something or if he's just busy with Uni" and find more than half a dozen unwatched videos! Grrr, bad algorithm. Anyways, gives me plenty to catch up with tonight, starting with this one that's near to my heart!
5:35 According to Jo Haylen's new map, the T3 will still exist, running from Liverpool to City Circle via Regents Park. So no, the T3 will still be part of the City Circle, meaning the T8 and T2 won't be getting extra capacity as you mentioned, unfortunately.
As a Belmore resident, I can say it’s one of those scarce occasions when it feels like we are getting the royal treatment! …well, in a year or so anyway.
My family lives in Campsie and we've gotten very used to taking the 420 to Burwood and getting the train from there whenever Campsie station is closed. Running a train replacement bus that does that would just make sense.
The airport line will likely have its frequency increased due to the removal of the T3 from the city circle. This should hopefully address the overcrowding issue.
@@reddust8649absolutely, part of the original selling point of the Bankstown like conversion is to alleviate pressure on the city circle so the other services can run more frequently. Seems like a great way to get that selling point across right from the start.
The existing bus services links New Town, Marrickville & Sydenham to CBD have different purpose. Buses make more stops so the passengers do not need to drive to stations.
The connective network you described exists in Australia's sister Commonwealth country -- Canada. Check out the TTC network in Toronto (the best example of this, but Vancouver and other cities generally do similar) and will notice there are two things the TTC absolutely, resolutely refuses to do: 1. run direct service to the CBD/downtown 2. run a branch of a service to remove a common transfer Most commutes within Toronto to the downtown are as follows: 1. Take your local frequent arterial bus service (chances are its Ten Minute Network, running better than every 10 minutes until 1am) to the nearest subway station, where you will be dropped off behind the faregates and right at the top of the escalator 2. Board the subway (every 6 minutes or better till 1am) to the downtown core.
Could they perhaps have express busses that make stops Bankstown, Punchbowl, Lakemba etc and then make there way to the M4 or the M5/M8/M1 motorways to the city?
Weird that the Bankstown conversion was prioritised over the Western Sydney metro. I honestly would've had the Parramatta metro built first then converted the Bankstown line to accommodate the higher demand on the existing rail corridor
The city and southwest project was designed to be a single project with everything opening at once. If they had foreseen what has ultimately happened, they may have made the conscious decision to just do the Chatswood to Sydenham line and worry about the Bankstown line conversion later.
A number of reasons. They wanted a through route for Metro North-West trains so they weren't terminating in the city, which is undesirable for many reasons. The line offered the best opportunities for transit-oriented development. As @uncle-pete pointed out, it takes these trains out of the City Circle. And eventually the plan is to connect Bankstown via Liverpool to Western Sydney Airport.
Pretty hilarious timing as they just announced the new rail map and the ‘Southwest Link’ bus service to replace the Bankstown section. Great video though!
Let me say from the outset Sharath that I like your concept of a future cross regional bus network, or even light rail as some have suggested, connecting with radial rail lines into the CBD. In the more densely populated inner city areas, new cross city metro lines may be an even better solution. However, the issue you have raised with the subject of this thread is a completely different matter. While I can see the advantages of what you have suggested during the Bankstown Line shutdown, it remains to be seen if it will run smoothly. There is no comparison with the Epping to Chatswood shutdown and conversion, as that was a relatively easier task, which only required minimal upgrading. The conversion of the Bankstown Line to driverless metro is far more complex, operating on the surface in a mixed rail traffic environment, rather than segregated in tunnel. How successfully the replacement bus service operates during the conversion will give us an insight into whether there will be any appetite for any future metro conversions, as distinct from completely segregated new metro lines where compromises don't have to be made. The other thing that is missing in conversion of existing lines, is that no consideration appears to have been given to the cost of the disruption caused during the conversion, which should be a legitimate consideration. I personally don't think it's worth it and new metro lines should be completely segregated from the existing Sydney Trains network without any further conversions.
One suggestion to make T8 feeders work better, and potentially even become permanent, is to extend them into full-fledged routes between T1/T2 and T4 stations. Ashfield, Burwood, Strathfield, Hurstville, Kogarah, and Rockdale are local commercial and employment hubs. There are no such hubs of that size on the T8. I know that there are some local bus routes that feed into these three hubs, but they are too circuitous and infrequent to be viable commuting routes (every 30 minutes through back streets vs. a beeline down Burwood, Kingsgrove, or Bexley Road? Really). Combining feeder and commuting demand would incentivise more frequency.
Interesting video ! As a Hills Resident the M2 Bus provides a great link into the city which in many cases is faster than the busing in from the eastern suburbs or inner west in peak ( to the horror of my work mates who think i live out in the sticks) . Vote 1 keep our M2 buses direct to the city !
Interestingly since the L2/L3 was built, the south eastern suburbs kinda does have this sort of bus network now. The 390x which runs from Bondi Junction to Malabar via UNSW is now one of the most popular bus routes in Sydney
Same goes with the 370, Coogee to Glebe via the two unis (USyd and UNSW). That’s always packed. I think in the not-so near future they planned a metro/tram vaguely mirroring that
The 390x was implemented so they could run high capacity articulated buses on the Bondi to UNSW corridor. That couldn’t be achieved on the former 400 route as the Wentworth Av ramp at westfield eastgardens couldnt accept bendy’s.
@@joshporter5422 Was going to say, isn't the 390X simply the former popular 400 service with the Eastgardens/Mascot/Airport connection cut off and replaced with running down the La Perouse? And more stops by the looks.
Aren’t there already buses running between the T3 train stations and the other two train lines? In regard to bus network connectivity, this has already implemented in The Hills District when the Metro went operational in 2019 for Regional 4.
One of the reasons for making the bus line follow the Metro route is probably to make sure people are still conditioned to using public transport along that route, though I agree that more express routes and circumferential routes to the remaining rail lines would be more conducive to that purpose Also justice for the Cumberland line 😂 Great work as always Sharath, keep up the good work
A triangular grid can be traversed from any node to any other with no more than one change. If all services on it operated at the same acceptable frequency, using vehicles ranging from heavy rail to minibus, initially and upgraded in response to custom, transport planning would start to make sense.
Many moons ago travelling by bus from Malabar to the CBD (distance 13.5 kms via Anzac Pde) would take an hour which was acceptable. These days now we have Mr Manscaped whining about travel times of 30-45mins longer by Rail Buses from Bankstown(28.1 km from the CBD). Considering that there are more vehicles in Sydney now than back in 2000 That's still pretty good! The reason why Rail Buses follow the rail line is that not everyone goes to the CBD for work. Yes, I agree that other routes can be made but you still have to go through a number of impact studies (which can take years) to go through & be approved. If 2 hours a day (to & from) is the average acceptable norm and has been for many years, then why whine? Track works for a new line takes years of various impact studies to write up & get approved not only by the state govt but also local councils. Even weekend track work on major lines take up time to prepare & to be implemented on a date to be decided. Rail tracks are like roads, they have to be checked. TfNSW say 2 weeks to implement planned work but that's not true. Here's some of the things that are done during typical track works: Rail Grinding - keeping the track in gauge (1435mm) between the rails. Keeping buildup of scale from the rails. Ballast Tamping - Refreshing the ballast under the rails. Checking for mudholes and checking for track buckle. Sleeper Replacement - Replacing old wooden sleepers with newer concrete ones. Also changing the old iron fishplates (what sits between the rail and sleepers) with new ones including the replacing dog spikes with fasteners. Overhead renewal - The overhead wears out pretty fast, it's about a 3/4 inch copper line. Needs to be renewed frequently (every few years). Replacing broken insulators and droppers. Also installing new sub station equipment. Rewiring/replacing/testing/adding signal equipment. Lubricating/replacing/repairing switches (points) - that changes the direction of trains at Y intersection. Platform shaving/relaying - fixing platforms that have sagged or need relaying. Graffiti removal. Rubbish removal. Vegetation trimming - Removing trees/bushes that block viewing of signals. Installation of new infrastructure - if it new speed signs to new power poles, catchpoints or signals. Sometimes they replace whole sections of track. Bridges or heaps of other things. Of course there is more but that's the main stuff. Also during shut downs, station staff do full station evacuation training at stations to ensure staff know what may be needed in case anything happens. Station staff don't sit on their arses during trackwork! It's mostly decided on where they can turn a train around, train crew rosters, passenger loads, station capability, can they turn enough trains without a delay. These things are planned well well in advance. Sometimes 3 years in advance. Also they often shut down a larger area than needed as to make it easier for buses as some places would not be ideal to terminate trains and get people on to buses. Considering that new rail lines & stations are being built, that takes time. 2 hours total travelling time during the day is nothing compared to what goes on. The results, when fully operational, will bring better benefits. Whining about it now makes no sense! How do I know? If you haven't worked it out, god help the rest of society!
You're right, we've been conditioned to take the easiest route even if it takes longer. I was recently booking a holiday in London and found myself opting for a more expensive hotel because there's a direct train from Heathrow rather than a more centrally located and cheaper place that required one train change. Seems daft since I'll only need to make that change once, but I can't convince myself it was a better idea.
Transfers between train and bus seem to work well at Bondi Junction - with an undercover bus station into the pedestrian corridor linking to the station. It's much better use of a bus operating budget to terminate at a station than the CBD, because of the high costs, slow speeds and variable running times of running buses on city streets in the CBD. To avoid this problem, Brisbane has its underground busway, Perth has 2 massive bus stations, Melbourne has trams in their own lanes and major bus transfer stations at Footscray and Box Hill. Adelaide is the only larger capital city with many buses in its CBD, but reduces the curb space problems by through running of nearly all bus services.
The ESR was always designed to cut off a large chunk of eastern suburbs buses and terminate them at either Bondi Junction and Edgecliff. It mostly worked, but more through running to the city survived than was originally intended - Edgecliff's interchange in particular was never utilised to capacity, and Bondi Junction was reduced from three platforms to two when the over-station redevelopment was finally done (albeit with more use of Grafton Street).
I suspect there will be some like me who will use the current Metro buses to go from Bankstown to Padstow/Revesby. I do it all the time during the school holiday shutdowns.
On paper the castle hill to Sydney metro run will save two minutes on 610x from castle Hill station to the city but will be more reliable and more comfortable but people will kick and scream if you mess with that 610x even though like you said services from the suburbs to castle hill have 30 minute plus turn around
I'm very much a fan of the idea of more circumference bus services. Pretty much the only times I still use my car are when I need to go perpendicular to the train lines. If there were more bus options, maybe I could even give up the car entirely?
Half of Adelaide sweared onto SA government for almost 2 years, the government spent over $300M above budget... yes, it was replacement buses while Gawler line was closed for electrification 2020-2022. With more than a year delay - right, due to the same SA government restricted access to state even for critical signalling install contractors.
The rail replacement for the Bankstown line conversion should've also been done the same as the Station Link buses when they were running during the conversion of the Epping to Chatswood Rail Link. You had some routes staring from St Leonards, Eastwood & Beecroft, so it wasn't just between Epping & Chatswood Some of the stations that I had in mind for some of the rail replacement buses were Wolli Creek, Kingsgrove, Beverley Hills, Riverwood, Padstow, Revesby, Regents Park, Lidcombe, Flemington, Strathfield, Burwood & Ashfield, so there's more options for commuters on the Bankstown line instead of just between Sydenham & Bankstown Also will Yagoona & Birrong be included in the shutdown during the conversion of the Bankstown line or will Yagoona become a temporary terminus station, just like Hamilton when the Newcastle line closed to make way for the light rail and Newcastle Interchange
Though the repeated industrial actions of the Unions disrupted Sydneysiders a lot, the budget to convert Bankstown Line should be better to extend a bit at Tallawong & Bradfield. Also, resume the abandoned Maldon-Dombarton Line to link Illawarra & Macarthur which will significantly reduce the number of trucks on the road.
Challenge for you Sharath, next time you go to the city, use 553 and train from Beecroft instead. Then compare to 610X from Oakes Rd. Do a video on it! And for Amy, an interconnected network option is 665 Kellyville Station to Celebration, transfer to 607X.
Honestly, probably unpopular opinions among local residents of T3 and T2/T8 alike. The time savings are negligible and most would prefer the convenience and reliability of direct services. Residents on the T3 will probably go to T2/T8 anyways, when the conversion begins, whether that by car or bus. Even with increased frequencies on the City Circle, T2/T8 stations will still be crowded and with even more people coming from the T3, I don't think many are happy with that. There are already buses from Campsie to Strathfield/Burwood/Kingsgrove/Bexley North, Canterbury to Ashfield/Bardwell Park, Lakemba to Strathfield/Beverly Hills etc. and those places in peak hour just cannot handle any more traffic by increased services/rail replacement buses. I don't think 607x/610x commuters would be too happy with their services truncated to catch a busy and full metro service at Macquarie Uni/Park, and those places already do not have enough capacity to handle extra bus layovers. There's still the 611 and 619 I guess. It would really come down to individual circumstances, because to many, the 607x/610x will still be faster to the city than when the metro fully opens. The City Rd buses of 422/423/426/428/430 are all basically following the former alignment of the tram, and I don't think "going in the opposite direction to get the train" really makes sense in this scenario. Also not sure about the map at 15:04 lol
You mention that Bankstown will still run to the city via Lidcombe, but you seem to miss the obvious alternative for suburbs like Punchbowl, which is to take the bus in the reverse direction to Bankstown and take the train from there.
The T3 service from Bankstown will only be a shuttle to Lidcombe. The current T3 service from Liverpool via Bankstown will instead run at a reduced frequency (4tph v 6tph) via Regents Park and Lidcombe to the City Circle via the Inner West Line. It's a bit of a myth that the metro conversion will free up significant capacity on the City Circle, as there will still be 4tph T3 services via a different route. Had the original concept of a new cross harbour rail link as part of the existing network been implemented, it would have removed all of the T3 services and T8 services via Sydenham from the City Circle.
I’m really curious for the current metro extension work, what kind of testing they are doing during the weekend and midnight? Any fun facts that normal commuters wouldn’t know?
Great stuff. But people don't like transferring if it is uncomfortable, inconvenient and unreliable - so fixing it is more difficult than just rerouting a few buses. We need frequency, and good quality facilities for transferring from buses to trains - so you don't get wet or run over - at St Peters, Mascot, Green Sq, Newtown, Edgecliff, Crows Nest etc etc.
You're ignoring the fact that buses already exist for some of these connections. You can already take multiple buses from Campsie to Burwood for example right now.
Transfers in Sydney are not desirable because they haven't been designed into the system. Like you said, the transport system was designed to move people from the suburbs to the CBD. The North West Metro is so successful in part to it's cross platform change with the T1. Look at Lidcombe as a great example. If you are changing on any line to head into the city you are going over a bridge to get to the Inner west line from the western line. So people travelling from the west who want to get on to the T8 change a parramatta instead of Lidcombe as there are escalators at Parramatta and the train is essentially waiting their for it, rather than having 3 minutes to get from one platform to the other. Personally, on top of north south rail links, I think we need to consider station redesigns on part of our network. We have the old Clyburn station that has plenty of space around where we could build a western line cross platform transfer, and perhaps this could replace Clyde station putting a bit more space between Granville and Clyde. Or consider a similar proposal at Flemington. These are just thought experiments (expensive ones) but people will expect their services to go direct to the city until they are shown a better way.
Thanks for another interesting video. There's a Transport for NSW plan to open a new monster sized bus depot at Macquarie Park. There's also the Herring Road (Mac Uni, Macquarie Centre) Mac Park bus interchange and Talavera Rd layover area in the works after the upgrades to bus lanes around the area. It would make a lot of sense to then terminate the M2 services at Mac Uni station.
its not possible to terminate anything there, the station is not designed for this. Only in Epping, where it used to be terminated when it was train, not metro.
One thing I'm a little confused about: a lot of people are saying the new metro will take the T3 off of the city circle. My understanding was that they were just redirecting the T3 via lidcombe and then to the city via the main western line. So won't the city circle problem still exist there?
Why don't they do each section separately rather than all in one go? Sydenham to Canterbury then campsie to Lakemba then Punchbowl to Bankstown. Or they could just do between two stations at a time like Sydenham to Dulwich Hill and have buses between those two stations only. Reduces bus travel distance and ensures people can get on the metro faster over the whole year.
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Why don't they close half the line? Instead of all of it at once?
7 месяцев назад
One problem I see in less direct bus services is the Opal fare system. You have to pay again for every new service other than the same mode. Hence, you pay more when taking a bus to the train and then heading into the city then taking a direct bus to the city. I suppose that doesn't count for the replacement buses but still, it's a problem of Sydney's fare scheme which is less integrated. For a German, that is very uncommon since we pay one fare for every journey over here.
The advantage of the Opal system is that this is not essential. Implementing a 'no penalty for transfer' is nothing more than a software issue. And if you want to be really creative, you could give a rebate (say 20c) for transfers that are considered beneficial - it would really take off then!
@@__will__bl I'm guessing that is relative to the two separate fares and not relative to staying on the original bus... which it should be. Happy to be corrected if wrong.
Transferring an existing line to Metro maybe a waste of $. If the double decker trains starts from Regents Park via Bankstown to end at Sydenham frequency can be increased without going into City Circle.
The other frankly outrageous thing about these replacement buses is that you will still be legally required to tap on even though only 30% of the buses will have opal readers. The designers of the 423 bus route have 1000 IQ because instead of terminating it at Kingsgrove shops/station, they terminated it at Kingsgrove depot like 500 meters away where there is virtually nothing. Great vid, keep it up!
Shortage of drivers? How many are needed for complementary turn up and go service for the Carlingford Light Rail passengers wishing to travel to Epping and thence Macquarie Park and the CBD. Currently passengers on the light rail will have to go backwards to Parramatta to join services to the CBD.
Saying "a train every 4min in peak, every 10min off peak" is only partially correct. The EIS shows a train through the city every 5min between peaks (9am-3pm) as well, it's only going to be every 10min before 7am, after 7pm and on weekends. I think one reason people are so funny about having to transfer is that most transfer experiences in Sydney are crap - not enough escalators, poor frequency, road space doesn't prioritise transit+bike+walking, bus reliability is often terrible. In Berlin it is totally normal to have to change 2x or 3x to get where you want to go, but it's not that big of a deal because trains+trams+buses are frequent and interchanges are well laid-out.
I don't have this issue. If people want to take a bike somewhere they should ride the bike for the whole distance instead of taking up room on trains. Roads in Sydney are notoriously narrow (Many of those inner city roads are 70 years older than the city of Melbourne - understandable as to why they were not widened early in the peace) and there is no room to devote to bikes or making footpaths wider. We need to stop the mindset that Sydney should become more like Paris, Berlin or Amsterdam. Sydney should be like Sydney. In Sydney, buildings just can't be knocked down wholesale anymore, which is why the NSW Government has built more km of tunnels for roads and railways than any other Australian government combined in the previous 12 years, and with more being built now. Berlin was blown off the map during WWII, so it has been easier for the Germans to up-spec things and make Berlin a biker's paradise. Berlin is also smaller in population so there should in reality be fewer traffic snarls. More than 500,000 people enter the Sydney Metropolitan Area for work Monday-Friday either via the intercity rail network or the four major road entry points, Pacific, Princes, Western and Hume Motorways. That compounds the problem in a city of 5m+.
@@vintageradio3404 So putting surface traffic in tunnels *only* lowers traffic & congestion overall if you combine that with a second action: taking surface space away from private vehicles and giving it back to other modes (trams, buses, cycleways, shared paths, footpaths and public space). If you just build more road capacity you will get more cars - you reap what you sow, so to speak. Billions of dollars of new road tunnels was a bad move if you then don't have the cahunas to actually challenge car brane. Your point about Sydney not being a bike-friendly city is just nonsense, if you go and have a look at videos from the 1920s and 1930s you will see plenty of bikes around all over the place, from the Harbour Bridge to the SCG/SFS area in Moore Park to Oxford Street and Parramatta Road. Cycling was a part of Sydney culture and still is despite the road regime and their efforts. Cycling is now even more viable than it ever was in the past, as we now have ebikes which are extremely climate-friendly, help alot on hills and increase overall average speed by 25-50%. Cyclists aren't asking for that much, they're just asking for the network of cycleways and safe streets that already exists in patches to be joined up. Your history is also off, many of Sydney's inner-city streets that predate Melbourne WERE widened with older buildings aquired and demo'ed, some of them several times. And finally, I don't really get why you have made the point about Berlin having wider roads in the context I mentioned which was trains+trams+bus interchange even outside the core being far more comfortable?
@@BigBlueMan118 "So putting surface traffic in tunnels only lowers traffic & congestion overall if you combine that with a second action" Not correct. Two prime examples of why have occurred in the last week with respect to the Lane Cove Tunnel. When the tunnel was complete, the then government altered the old road by narrowing it from six lanes to two lanes, with a further two reserved for buses, a slight widening of footpaths and a bike lane. No-one uses the bike lane, there are no extra people walking on the widened footpaths and in the last week we have had a vehicle fire in the tunnel and another one just near the western tunnel portal. Traffic was diverted onto the old road (Epping Road) on both occasions and because the bus lanes have enforcement cameras, we have three lanes of traffic moving at 100km/h at the end of the M2 Motorway being reduced to 60km/h in just one available lane. Seriously, does that make any sense at all? Epping Road is also quite undulating which discourages most people from using their feet and bikes in the area. There are also no shops there, so it's a bit difficult to buy a drink to rehydrate when exercising. When WestConnex was built, lessons learned from that translated into old arterial roads being left as they were for the most part. Roads such as the Princes Highway and Parramatta Road were left as is and this is the right thing to do. Whilst I support trams returning to Parramatta Road (there is capacity on the George Street portion of the L2 line for this purpose) it cannot come at the expense of the right we all have to drive somewhere. I am a big user of public transport myself, yet I cannot carry a new fridge home on a tram or bus but it'll fit quite well in the boot of my station wagon.
@@BigBlueMan118 "Your history is also off, many of Sydney's inner-city streets that predate Melbourne WERE widened with older buildings aquired and demo'ed, some of them several times." Roads were not widened that much. Governor Macquarie widened and straightened many roads in Sydney's CBD but we are talking about laneways being converted to an equivalent of a four lane carriageway, which is not really suited to combined use. Roads outside of the CBD have rarely been widened for any reason. There are exceptions - but not very many. Why don't you understand why comparisons are being made? It is simply the case that widening colonial-era roads in Sydney and its inner suburbs is politically prohibitive. Sydney once did have many reservations for future roads and the Labor government led by Neville Wran sold them all to property developers in the 1970s and 1980s. As mentioned before, the only way around this is to build tunnels. Sydney is officially Australia's tunnel city.
@@vintageradio3404 1) “No-one uses the bike lane, there are no extra people walking on the widened footpaths” This is anecdotal not documented evidence, you also ignored the bus lanes which transport WAY more people than a private vehicle lane can (somewhere around 10x as many) 2) “in the last week we have had a vehicle fire in the tunnel and another one just near the western tunnel portal” This is by definition an extraordinary event, we don’t use this to measure the effectiveness of a transport policy other than to plan for redundancy, and the redundancy is in the bus & train networks (which is about to get a lot more redundancy when Metro C&SW opens) 3) “Traffic was diverted onto the old road (Epping Road) on both occasions and because the bus lanes have enforcement cameras, we have three lanes of traffic moving at 100km/h at the end of the M2 Motorway being reduced to 60km/h in just one available lane. Seriously, does that make any sense at all?” Yes it does, the situation would obviously be way worse and much more unfair if you disrupted bus operations, and the buses as I said can carry 10x the amount of people as allowing private vehicles to use the bus lane would. Induced demand is also a thing, if you open a new tunnel and don’t reduce surface capacity, in a growing city cars just clog up both. The only way to reduce congestion is providing attractive viable alternatives to driving - that would be the bus lanes and widened cycleways you mentioned. 4) “Epping Road is also quite undulating which discourages most people from using their feet and bikes in the area.” Part of the problem is obviously people trying to avoid the tolls, but you’re right - needs more density along it near the stations, and slower speeds as well as expanding the bike infrastructure to better connect to places people actually want to go rather than dumping you out into dangerous stroads. 5) “When WestConnex was built, lessons learned from that translated into old arterial roads being left as they were for the most part. Roads such as the Princes Highway and Parramatta Road were left as is and this is the right thing to do.” This wasn’t the original plan, the Government backed down and caved in to car brane - I worked on WestConnex in the air quality modelling. The Government were promising that King St Newtown, Parramatta Road and Victoria Road would be having their capacity and speeds reduced and returned space to people and transit. Totally the wrong call, you have just increased how attractive driving is, you will just get more drivers and you are losing the chance to increase productivity in these corridors which have potential to be some of the most productive in the country. 6) “Whilst I support trams returning to Parramatta Road (there is capacity on the George Street portion of the L2 line for this purpose)” This is incorrect, currently George Street is running 16 trams per hour, 8 on each branch. It was designed to run 30 trams per hour or 15 on each branch, and it is already struggling to meet demand with the existing services in the medium-term. By the time a Parramatta Road line could be built (2029-2031 if you started now) George Street will already need all the capacity for the SE. You have some options and I dunno what the best is. Option 1 you could initially terminate Parramatta Rd LR at Railway Square, Option 2 you could build new tracks down Pitt Street then turn left onto Liverpool Street to Museum and continue down Oxford Street, Option 3 you could find a way to link into the L1 but L1 is limited to shorter 33m trams not the 50m high-capacity trams you want for Parramatta Road, or Option 4 you could build new tracks down Elizabeth Street and redirect SE services to Elizabeth Street which is probably my preference as it speeds up SE journeys about 4 minutes. 7) “it cannot come at the expense of the right we all have to drive somewhere” That’s fine but not in busy areas that are activity hubs, and you will find that light cycles currently are timed to the advantage of drivers rather than pedestrians and cyclists (with exceptions like George Street or Martin Place of course). Around activity hubs you should have to drive extremely slowly and traffic should be routed around them. Pedestrian streets should be massively expanded in the city once the new Metro line opens, you will be able to have over 230 trains & trams arriving per hour in the CBD. Streets aren’t exclusive to cars, streets have been shared spaces and places of activities for thousands of years. 8) “I cannot carry a new fridge home on a tram or bus but it'll fit quite well in the boot of my station wagon.” That’s also fine, but we can have slow speeds and loading zones on largely-pedestrianised streets and you and everyone else still benefit on the days you don’t have to transport a fridge (probably 364 days per year if not more). Also you would be surprised how good modern cargo bikes are for transporting items, people use them for everything in Europe and I have seen them in Sydney too, they will get more popular as the cost of driving increases. 9) “Roads were not widened that much. Governor Macquarie widened and straightened many roads in Sydney's CBD but we are talking about laneways being converted to an equivalent of a four lane carriageway, which is not really suited to combined use.” I watched a talk by some Sydney Uni historians that mentioned George Street and Broadway had buildings acquired at least 3 times, Oxford Street at least twice, both are now >20m wide which is wide enough for trams + 1 lane of traffic + wider footpaths which is all that’s being discussed here? 10) “Roads outside of the CBD have rarely been widened for any reason. There are exceptions - but not very many.” Parramatta Road, the Pacific Highway, Oxford Street, Military Road, Canterbury Road appear to have been widened quite extensively if you look at the 1943 aerial imagery of Sydney or do a quick google search. But fair - usually they just thrust motorways on people and acquired property that way. 11) “Sydney once did have many reservations for future roads and the Labor government led by Neville Wran sold them all to property developers in the 1970s and 1980s.” Good, we don’t need additional roads or road capacity in the corridors they sold, we are in a climate crisis - we need trains, trams, buses and cycling infrastructure. 12) “As mentioned before, the only way around this is to build tunnels.” This will just make driving more attractive and increase private transport use - why do you refuse to understand the pretty simple concept of induced demand? The ONLY way to improve the city is to provide valuable alternatives to driving. Public transport and cycling have WAY more capacity for the space used than highways, that’s why Los Angeles is not stupid enough to do what Sydney doing and its voters voted for a massive $100bn+ public transport expansion to bypass their bottlenecks, and using their highways for new rail lines and bus rapid transit.
It's pretty bad where there are tight turns too - there's a couple of busy intersections like Campsie Station and in Belmore where there's now lots of buses trying to squeeze through places that are a challenge for many SUV drivers. Campsie is particularly bad due to the cars creeping forwar so the bus just has to sit in the intersection until that motorist realises that they have to back up and let the bus through. I reckon 49 minutes is an underestimate. (but I just see this as I'm riding my bike through there, along the really crappy not-very-official bike route)
Express busses are also importent. Here in melbourne it was better for me to get a highway express bus rather than taking the train at many hours of the day. Express services on the train network are limited to peak travel times and statiions might be too close to make the most of the rail top speeds
As a resident of a regional area of New South Wales, I would like to correct some terminology. TfNSW, actually, stands for Transport for Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong as they have forgotten about regional transport for the last 50+ years. However, after talking with my cousins who live in Newcastle and Wollongong, it appears that it should be renamed to Transport for Sydney. While you are worrying about saving 6 minutes in Sydney, in the Hunter Valley passenger trains are pushed into passing loops for 20 minutes on the single track, non-electrofied line to give priority to the coal trains.
Yes, something of an oversight not to duplicate the "Great Northern Line" between Singleton and Muswellbrook, given that a significant increase in coal traffic is now happening. That includes many more coal trains now running from Wilpinjong and Ulan on the Sandy Hollow Line adding to the congestion on the Main North . "Oversight" is however something that our rail administrations seem to excel at.
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hell yea bro i wanna shave my balls
Those scammers should be investigated. Once you purchase a product they sign you up to subscription based system charging your card and sending products you never order or knew about.
You can't even cancel the subscription they make it extremely hard. The don't even call it a subscription they call it a trim plan or something and hide the section . I still don't know how to cancel. Beware they are frauds and fake branding. Complete crap.
lol, you actually motivated me to buy that 👍
Sharath, I watched 9 news and they said it's not replacement busses, they said it's a new bus line
@@faz8169 it is a train replacement service. And they only have 40 of the 200 drivers needed. So much for Minns Australian Made campaign because these are Chinese buses.
As a resident of the Bankstown line, I appreciate you covering the full breadth of Sydney. The _Sydney_ Morning Herald believes Sydney ends at Erskineville.
Penrith Hornsby Cronulla Campbelltown
@@MitchellBPYaolong ago the four suburbs lived in harmony, Till Leppington attacked!
With the low patronage recorded on the T8 feeder routes, it's also important to note that we were in lockdown when those routes ran so patronage figures may not be the same if we brought back those routes now.
"I swear on the grave of the Carlingford line" Bahahaha
He's got a wicked sense of humour.
Yes
Truth
That actually aged either well or badly, depending on how you interpret the news that they’re reviving the T6 label for a small shuttle when works start
Across the Ditch in Auckland, we recently change our West Auckland Bus Network from Direct Service Network to Connective and it has lead to increase bus usage, and train usage
You mention it briefly, but it's interesting that if anyone wants to travel towards or away from the city, they are more likely to use public transport, but if they have to go across (vertically in your diagrams) they basically have to drive. This is also true if the trip is mostly towards or away from the city but some small part of it would go "across" train lines. A bus service would mean more people could use public transport.
In general though, a major problem I see is that bus service is incredibly spotty in Sydney, the whole "no buses for 2 hours and then 5 buses in a row", we would really need to carve out bus lanes everywhere to get reliable bus transport.
Orbital routes are perfect for light rail.
Higher capacity and (potentially) faster than busses while much cheaper than a full fledged heavy rail line.
@@lars7935and that pretty much precisely how Paris (who pretty much invented the modern European tramway) uses trams these days
A tram service ran from Glebe Point cross country to Coogee Beach via Randwick, and a successor bus service still does, although passing through Newtown and West Kensington which the tram didn't do. Seems to be well patronised.
This is because the rail network has been playing catch up since the 70s. There are no bypass routes which avoid the city and provide orbital connections across the major lines, something every other well developed transit network has, be it Paris, London, Tokyo, or Moscow. A Strathfield-Belmore-Kingsgrove-Hurstville line will probably see a lot of patronage and introduce the idea of lines which don't have to cross into the city centre.
This is actually an interesting part of transit design. Most cities that get praised for their trains, London for example, have lines that don't just circle to the CBD. Their lines look more like spider webs where every line goes and connects basically everywhere. Historically, the circle was used because cities weren't that big but now, more and more planners are transitioning towards the web-like design because it's more efficient and fast.
As a Campsie resident, I'd propose a bus to Strathfield, so close to Burwood but enabling access to the express city services that next stop at Redfern
415
Another suggestion: each station on the T3 is less than a 15 minute bike ride from the nearest station on the T2 or T8 - pop-up bike lanes and Opal-locked bike cages like the ones at Redfern and Epping could be a great solution too!
Unfortunately inner west council just voted against a pop up bike lane for metro shut down. Hopefully they change their minds...
I thought most of the stations on the T2 line from Lidcombe to Strathfield belong to the Cumberland/Strathfield councils? And T8 stations from Wolli Creek to Kogarah belong to Bayside and CB council?
Is CB canterbury bankstown
@@michaelchandola2779 Yes - Also on the T8 I meant from Wolli Creek to Revesby (which is certainly in the CB council LGA), not only Kogarah
LITERALLLLLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This reminds me of the Armadale line shutdown here in Perth. They’ve shut the line for more than a year to revamp it and upgrade it. Luckily there has been investment and much planning for the train replacement bus services but journey times on that portion has still sky rocketed.
> journey times have skyrocketed
Problem is, there's not really a parallel rail route for the Armadale line replacement buses to use like there is in Sydney.
There are already buses between the closed and open lines. It's not a lot faster, unless your bus arrives at destination right as the train is about to pull in.
Look Mum! I made it on a Building Beautifully video!
In all seriousness, this is a great video! I wish they would do something similar to StationLink. When the Epping-Chatswood Rail Link closed when that line was converted to the Metro, there were 7 ultra high frequency bus services with huge temporary bus stops. They also built dedicated new buses which after the Metro was opened were used for local routes. It was basically a temporary BRT system. There was 1 main route from Epping to Chatswood, but the other routes went to stations like Eastwood, Beecroft, and St Leonards so that Epping and Chatswood weren’t too congested.
Unfortunately they’re not doing the same with the T3 closure where these fundamental standards are even more important. And I think we’ll find out very quickly that it’ll be a mistake to arrange the buses as they are now.
lol i remember your cameo in the housing one
you wouldn't know a dam thing or did your BFF station master jeffries tell you that you dont have any education on transport planning let alone a HSC
@@annoyedlemonwho hurt you?
that's the difference between a Liberal Government and a cheap arsed Labor Government
@annoyedleypu are so right mon
5:20 I grew up in the Bankstown area and used that line a lot, a lot of people are just going to use the T8 line at stations like Revesby, Padstow and East Hills anyway. A lot of people in the area use those lines anyway since they've always had more trains running and have way more limited stop trains during peak hour. If I still lived there I would just make the switch and use East Hills instead of the usual Yagoona, because no one in Bankstown walks to their local train station anyway.
If the metro is accelerating faster, wouldnt you be pushing into the person next to you instead of into the back of your seat? Chairs are sideways.
Yes it's a problem the first few stops and starts, but then you adjust and find some way to brace your body. Also you know you're heading to your destination quicker which makes it all worth it in the end.
Don't quote me on the second part tho
Don't cloud the issue with facts.
you naturally learn to brace your body, like instinctively, to a point that it becomes a reflex you do not even think about it.
It's FAR less jerky acceleration
420 bus already exists for Bexley North to Campsie to Burwood but Beamish St. gets some traffic even at off peak.
Based on how the buses replaced trains on the Chatswood to Epping line was run, stop exageration of the Bankstown line closure. They did an excellent job of working with traffic and stakeholders. Just like you do Sharef.
5:52 there are already existing bus services going north and south.
Yes but existing bus routes don’t have the capacity to handle passengers that would normally take the train. That’s why we have replacement buses.
Great shot of the track evaluation car at 12:50!
One thing not talked about at all is that by converting the existing lines to metro, they are taking the contingencies out of the heavy rail network
I travel from campsie to st leonards. On the way to work I'll get the replacement bus/ train from sydenham, change at central or town hall - it takes an hour. On the way back Ill get the train to strathfield, change for the train back to burwood and then get the 410/420/490/492 to Campsie - it takes up to 1h30.
I am seriously considering moving for 12 months to the north shore cause that's just stuffed! I used to live in chippo and work in surry Hills and it was a 7min drive to work or half hour walk
8:30 those times seem to assume a quick connection between the bus and the train on the Airport & South Line (er, sorry; "T8" Line). In reality, just a couple of minutes delay by the bus may mean a 15 minute wait on the station platform for the next train. Remember what a Sydney Trains staff person once told a passenger (er, sorry, "customer") "We run trains, not connections".
Also, those designations "T1, T3" etc mean bugger all; some NSW Transport bureaucrat probably came up with that to justify their job. Thank God London still calls its older lines names like "Hammersmith & City line", etc.
Bankstown has already had buses go to other Lines, such as Revesby, Parramatta & Sutherland. Campsie & Burwood have already had bus connections via Burwood Road, to Airport.
I don't always agree with what you say in your videos or your ideas and views but I really do appreciate the amount of effort and time into research and script writing you but into each of your videos.
thuper
what don’t you agree with
The storm before the calm
I was supporting your idea so much, until you talked about my bus route (607X/610X) and I immediately hated it. True aussie behaviour
Thanks for an interesting video. I used to live at Marrickville on the Bankstown line and I can really identify with this situation. It will be interesting to see how the replacement buses handle things during the twelve months Sydney Trains closure. Hopefully, it will all run smoothly for everyone concerned. The current bus line from Marrickville to the city is Route 423, starting at Earlwood. I shudder to see how this service will handle all the extra passengers for twelve months. I remember seeing utter chaos having to use them to get to the city during train strikes, which mostly would only last a few days, with the exception of one infamous eleven day train strike, which occurred in the late 1970s. To get to the city from Marrickville by the standard bus routes without any trains running, involves catching a bus to Earlwood and back, just to make it possible to get on the bus which is always packed in peak times. The other option is to walk from Marrickville to Dulwich Hill and catch a bus (or light rail these days) into the city. Fortunately, there will be trains from Sydenham. So, that makes it just a bit easier. Still, I think passengers on the Bankstown line may be in for a rough twelve months. Your suggestion about talking buses to other working train stations is absolutely brilliant. I am amazed the state transport people don't try this idea. It would be far better than just following the Bankstown train line all the way, which could even be an extra problem between Marrickville and Sydenham, where they would have to follow up along Illawarra Road and then turn into Marrickville Road, sharing with heavy traffic and other standard bus routes.
Hopefully they will organize the buses better than today. At Sydenham the replacement buses and their stops were poorly marked and you had to walk all alongside the station to know what the options were. As for the shutdown, I expect a lot of people will drive to another line rather than get replacement buses. I'm sure they decided not to bus people to other lines because it means more profits for the bus companies! I am in Canterbury and its certainly easier to get a bus to Ashfield when the trains are out on the T3 line than to get a replacement bus.
The issue is they are only considered people travelling to and from the city. My dad who lives in Canterbury and works in villawood catches the 491 to Ashfield and then train to villawood. So if they could increase local north south bus frequencies it would also help.
The people being so hyped about the metro is beautiful to see! A reminder of how important connecting people is
Now that stage 2 of Sydney Metro is complete, it now connects commuters in north west Sydney to the rest of NSW and Australia by rail at Central
Want an example of every bus going to the CBD? Enter, Brisbane! The westside has literally every bus from the suburbs going down the main corridor into the city. When there's a train line adjacent. Then bus frequency out to the suburbs is rubbish
What the heck, RUclips? I go "hey I haven't seen a Building Beautifully video in a while, I wonder if I missed something or if he's just busy with Uni" and find more than half a dozen unwatched videos! Grrr, bad algorithm. Anyways, gives me plenty to catch up with tonight, starting with this one that's near to my heart!
5:35 According to Jo Haylen's new map, the T3 will still exist, running from Liverpool to City Circle via Regents Park. So no, the T3 will still be part of the City Circle, meaning the T8 and T2 won't be getting extra capacity as you mentioned, unfortunately.
As a Belmore resident, I can say it’s one of those scarce occasions when it feels like we are getting the royal treatment! …well, in a year or so anyway.
My family lives in Campsie and we've gotten very used to taking the 420 to Burwood and getting the train from there whenever Campsie station is closed. Running a train replacement bus that does that would just make sense.
You must have the best parties in your brain! Love your work!
One potential issue is adding to overloading on peak hour trains when they pick up from Airport stations during peak periods.
The airport line will likely have its frequency increased due to the removal of the T3 from the city circle. This should hopefully address the overcrowding issue.
So shoving some X buses from Banky down Kingsgrove way could be a goer if they transfer displaced sets from T3 to airport line ?
@@reddust8649absolutely, part of the original selling point of the Bankstown like conversion is to alleviate pressure on the city circle so the other services can run more frequently. Seems like a great way to get that selling point across right from the start.
The diagram at 15:07's missing one thing: King St Light Rail from St Peters (or Enmore Rd) into Broadway!
The existing bus services links New Town, Marrickville & Sydenham to CBD have different purpose. Buses make more stops so the passengers do not need to drive to stations.
The connective network you described exists in Australia's sister Commonwealth country -- Canada. Check out the TTC network in Toronto (the best example of this, but Vancouver and other cities generally do similar) and will notice there are two things the TTC absolutely, resolutely refuses to do:
1. run direct service to the CBD/downtown
2. run a branch of a service to remove a common transfer
Most commutes within Toronto to the downtown are as follows:
1. Take your local frequent arterial bus service (chances are its Ten Minute Network, running better than every 10 minutes until 1am) to the nearest subway station, where you will be dropped off behind the faregates and right at the top of the escalator
2. Board the subway (every 6 minutes or better till 1am) to the downtown core.
Could they perhaps have express busses that make stops Bankstown, Punchbowl, Lakemba etc and then make there way to the M4 or the M5/M8/M1 motorways to the city?
Weird that the Bankstown conversion was prioritised over the Western Sydney metro. I honestly would've had the Parramatta metro built first then converted the Bankstown line to accommodate the higher demand on the existing rail corridor
honestly. feels like parra station needs 400 platforms, not just four of em
We should be going full steam ahead with the full metro network
The city and southwest project was designed to be a single project with everything opening at once. If they had foreseen what has ultimately happened, they may have made the conscious decision to just do the Chatswood to Sydenham line and worry about the Bankstown line conversion later.
They have to get T3 trains out of the city circle.
A number of reasons. They wanted a through route for Metro North-West trains so they weren't terminating in the city, which is undesirable for many reasons. The line offered the best opportunities for transit-oriented development. As @uncle-pete pointed out, it takes these trains out of the City Circle. And eventually the plan is to connect Bankstown via Liverpool to Western Sydney Airport.
Pretty hilarious timing as they just announced the new rail map and the ‘Southwest Link’ bus service to replace the Bankstown section. Great video though!
11:04 A lot of Anglophone Countries have this Problem with Trains and Buses. Sounds like Buses in Manchester or London or Train Services in NYC
your segue into the manscaped read was wild.
Let me say from the outset Sharath that I like your concept of a future cross regional bus network, or even light rail as some have suggested, connecting with radial rail lines into the CBD. In the more densely populated inner city areas, new cross city metro lines may be an even better solution.
However, the issue you have raised with the subject of this thread is a completely different matter. While I can see the advantages of what you have suggested during the Bankstown Line shutdown, it remains to be seen if it will run smoothly. There is no comparison with the Epping to Chatswood shutdown and conversion, as that was a relatively easier task, which only required minimal upgrading.
The conversion of the Bankstown Line to driverless metro is far more complex, operating on the surface in a mixed rail traffic environment, rather than segregated in tunnel. How successfully the replacement bus service operates during the conversion will give us an insight into whether there will be any appetite for any future metro conversions, as distinct from completely segregated new metro lines where compromises don't have to be made.
The other thing that is missing in conversion of existing lines, is that no consideration appears to have been given to the cost of the disruption caused during the conversion, which should be a legitimate consideration. I personally don't think it's worth it and new metro lines should be completely segregated from the existing Sydney Trains network without any further conversions.
One suggestion to make T8 feeders work better, and potentially even become permanent, is to extend them into full-fledged routes between T1/T2 and T4 stations. Ashfield, Burwood, Strathfield, Hurstville, Kogarah, and Rockdale are local commercial and employment hubs. There are no such hubs of that size on the T8.
I know that there are some local bus routes that feed into these three hubs, but they are too circuitous and infrequent to be viable commuting routes (every 30 minutes through back streets vs. a beeline down Burwood, Kingsgrove, or Bexley Road? Really). Combining feeder and commuting demand would incentivise more frequency.
Interesting video ! As a Hills Resident the M2 Bus provides a great link into the city which in many cases is faster than the busing in from the eastern suburbs or inner west in peak ( to the horror of my work mates who think i live out in the sticks) . Vote 1 keep our M2 buses direct to the city !
Interestingly since the L2/L3 was built, the south eastern suburbs kinda does have this sort of bus network now. The 390x which runs from Bondi Junction to Malabar via UNSW is now one of the most popular bus routes in Sydney
And if the thinking starts going in the right direction it'd be one of the lines needing conversion to light rail
And the local residents HATE it so honestly I don't think there's public support for such an idea, regardless of its efficiency :((
Same goes with the 370, Coogee to Glebe via the two unis (USyd and UNSW). That’s always packed. I think in the not-so near future they planned a metro/tram vaguely mirroring that
The 390x was implemented so they could run high capacity articulated buses on the Bondi to UNSW corridor. That couldn’t be achieved on the former 400 route as the Wentworth Av ramp at westfield eastgardens couldnt accept bendy’s.
@@joshporter5422 Was going to say, isn't the 390X simply the former popular 400 service with the Eastgardens/Mascot/Airport connection cut off and replaced with running down the La Perouse? And more stops by the looks.
maybe more people will take the L1 dulwich hill light rail to get to places along the former T3?
Aren’t there already buses running between the T3 train stations and the other two train lines? In regard to bus network connectivity, this has already implemented in The Hills District when the Metro went operational in 2019 for Regional 4.
One of the reasons for making the bus line follow the Metro route is probably to make sure people are still conditioned to using public transport along that route, though I agree that more express routes and circumferential routes to the remaining rail lines would be more conducive to that purpose
Also justice for the Cumberland line 😂
Great work as always Sharath, keep up the good work
A triangular grid can be traversed from any node to any other with no more than one change. If all services on it operated at the same acceptable frequency, using vehicles ranging from heavy rail to minibus, initially and upgraded in response to custom, transport planning would start to make sense.
Those maps were great! Hope to see some more thought bubbles and maps!
Many moons ago travelling by bus from Malabar to the CBD (distance 13.5 kms via Anzac Pde) would take an hour which was acceptable. These days now we have Mr Manscaped whining about travel times of 30-45mins longer by Rail Buses from Bankstown(28.1 km from the CBD). Considering that there are more vehicles in Sydney now than back in 2000 That's still pretty good! The reason why Rail Buses follow the rail line is that not everyone goes to the CBD for work. Yes, I agree that other routes can be made but you still have to go through a number of impact studies (which can take years) to go through & be approved. If 2 hours a day (to & from) is the average acceptable norm and has been for many years, then why whine? Track works for a new line takes years of various impact studies to write up & get approved not only by the state govt but also local councils. Even weekend track work on major lines take up time to prepare & to be implemented on a date to be decided. Rail tracks are like roads, they have to be checked. TfNSW say 2 weeks to implement planned work but that's not true. Here's some of the things that are done during typical track works:
Rail Grinding - keeping the track in gauge (1435mm) between the rails. Keeping buildup of scale from the rails.
Ballast Tamping - Refreshing the ballast under the rails. Checking for mudholes and checking for track buckle.
Sleeper Replacement - Replacing old wooden sleepers with newer concrete ones. Also changing the old iron fishplates (what sits between the rail and sleepers) with new ones including the replacing dog spikes with fasteners.
Overhead renewal - The overhead wears out pretty fast, it's about a 3/4 inch copper line. Needs to be renewed frequently (every few years). Replacing broken insulators and droppers. Also installing new sub station equipment.
Rewiring/replacing/testing/adding signal equipment.
Lubricating/replacing/repairing switches (points) - that changes the direction of trains at Y intersection.
Platform shaving/relaying - fixing platforms that have sagged or need relaying.
Graffiti removal.
Rubbish removal.
Vegetation trimming - Removing trees/bushes that block viewing of signals.
Installation of new infrastructure - if it new speed signs to new power poles, catchpoints or signals. Sometimes they replace whole sections of track. Bridges or heaps of other things.
Of course there is more but that's the main stuff.
Also during shut downs, station staff do full station evacuation training at stations to ensure staff know what may be needed in case anything happens. Station staff don't sit on their arses during trackwork!
It's mostly decided on where they can turn a train around, train crew rosters, passenger loads, station capability, can they turn enough trains without a delay. These things are planned well well in advance. Sometimes 3 years in advance. Also they often shut down a larger area than needed as to make it easier for buses as some places would not be ideal to terminate trains and get people on to buses.
Considering that new rail lines & stations are being built, that takes time. 2 hours total travelling time during the day is nothing compared to what goes on. The results, when fully operational, will bring better benefits. Whining about it now makes no sense!
How do I know? If you haven't worked it out, god help the rest of society!
Excellent commentary Sharath 😊
Fully agree with you. The buses should run as you mentioned
You're right, we've been conditioned to take the easiest route even if it takes longer. I was recently booking a holiday in London and found myself opting for a more expensive hotel because there's a direct train from Heathrow rather than a more centrally located and cheaper place that required one train change. Seems daft since I'll only need to make that change once, but I can't convince myself it was a better idea.
Transfers between train and bus seem to work well at Bondi Junction - with an undercover bus station into the pedestrian corridor linking to the station. It's much better use of a bus operating budget to terminate at a station than the CBD, because of the high costs, slow speeds and variable running times of running buses on city streets in the CBD. To avoid this problem, Brisbane has its underground busway, Perth has 2 massive bus stations, Melbourne has trams in their own lanes and major bus transfer stations at Footscray and Box Hill. Adelaide is the only larger capital city with many buses in its CBD, but reduces the curb space problems by through running of nearly all bus services.
The ESR was always designed to cut off a large chunk of eastern suburbs buses and terminate them at either Bondi Junction and Edgecliff. It mostly worked, but more through running to the city survived than was originally intended - Edgecliff's interchange in particular was never utilised to capacity, and Bondi Junction was reduced from three platforms to two when the over-station redevelopment was finally done (albeit with more use of Grafton Street).
I wish your show would do an analysis of Newcastle's public transport network. It would be revealing. Enjoyed the video, thanks.
I suspect there will be some like me who will use the current Metro buses to go from Bankstown to Padstow/Revesby. I do it all the time during the school holiday shutdowns.
On paper the castle hill to Sydney metro run will save two minutes on 610x from castle Hill station to the city but will be more reliable and more comfortable but people will kick and scream if you mess with that 610x even though like you said services from the suburbs to castle hill have 30 minute plus turn around
Apparently the 607x and the 610x are actually going to be terminated a Macquarie pk when the metro opens
Looking forward to the open day at Martin Place! Tickets sold out within a couple of days
I'm very much a fan of the idea of more circumference bus services. Pretty much the only times I still use my car are when I need to go perpendicular to the train lines. If there were more bus options, maybe I could even give up the car entirely?
Direct service to the city center from the suburbs? That sounds like the USA to me (except for Seattle surrounding its light rail lines).
Half of Adelaide sweared onto SA government for almost 2 years, the government spent over $300M above budget... yes, it was replacement buses while Gawler line was closed for electrification 2020-2022. With more than a year delay - right, due to the same SA government restricted access to state even for critical signalling install contractors.
The rail replacement for the Bankstown line conversion should've also been done the same as the Station Link buses when they were running during the conversion of the Epping to Chatswood Rail Link. You had some routes staring from St Leonards, Eastwood & Beecroft, so it wasn't just between Epping & Chatswood
Some of the stations that I had in mind for some of the rail replacement buses were Wolli Creek, Kingsgrove, Beverley Hills, Riverwood, Padstow, Revesby, Regents Park, Lidcombe, Flemington, Strathfield, Burwood & Ashfield, so there's more options for commuters on the Bankstown line instead of just between Sydenham & Bankstown
Also will Yagoona & Birrong be included in the shutdown during the conversion of the Bankstown line or will Yagoona become a temporary terminus station, just like Hamilton when the Newcastle line closed to make way for the light rail and Newcastle Interchange
Bike lane along the corridor during construction please!
Though the repeated industrial actions of the Unions disrupted Sydneysiders a lot, the budget to convert Bankstown Line should be better to extend a bit at Tallawong & Bradfield. Also, resume the abandoned Maldon-Dombarton Line to link Illawarra & Macarthur which will significantly reduce the number of trucks on the road.
Challenge for you Sharath, next time you go to the city, use 553 and train from Beecroft instead. Then compare to 610X from Oakes Rd. Do a video on it!
And for Amy, an interconnected network option is 665 Kellyville Station to Celebration, transfer to 607X.
Honestly, probably unpopular opinions among local residents of T3 and T2/T8 alike. The time savings are negligible and most would prefer the convenience and reliability of direct services. Residents on the T3 will probably go to T2/T8 anyways, when the conversion begins, whether that by car or bus. Even with increased frequencies on the City Circle, T2/T8 stations will still be crowded and with even more people coming from the T3, I don't think many are happy with that. There are already buses from Campsie to Strathfield/Burwood/Kingsgrove/Bexley North, Canterbury to Ashfield/Bardwell Park, Lakemba to Strathfield/Beverly Hills etc. and those places in peak hour just cannot handle any more traffic by increased services/rail replacement buses.
I don't think 607x/610x commuters would be too happy with their services truncated to catch a busy and full metro service at Macquarie Uni/Park, and those places already do not have enough capacity to handle extra bus layovers. There's still the 611 and 619 I guess. It would really come down to individual circumstances, because to many, the 607x/610x will still be faster to the city than when the metro fully opens.
The City Rd buses of 422/423/426/428/430 are all basically following the former alignment of the tram, and I don't think "going in the opposite direction to get the train" really makes sense in this scenario. Also not sure about the map at 15:04 lol
You mention that Bankstown will still run to the city via Lidcombe, but you seem to miss the obvious alternative for suburbs like Punchbowl, which is to take the bus in the reverse direction to Bankstown and take the train from there.
The T3 service from Bankstown will only be a shuttle to Lidcombe. The current T3 service from Liverpool via Bankstown will instead run at a reduced frequency (4tph v 6tph) via Regents Park and Lidcombe to the City Circle via the Inner West Line. It's a bit of a myth that the metro conversion will free up significant capacity on the City Circle, as there will still be 4tph T3 services via a different route. Had the original concept of a new cross harbour rail link as part of the existing network been implemented, it would have removed all of the T3 services and T8 services via Sydenham from the City Circle.
I’m really curious for the current metro extension work, what kind of testing they are doing during the weekend and midnight? Any fun facts that normal commuters wouldn’t know?
12:16 Cant you essentially do both if you play around a bit with the frequency towards the City?
Great stuff. But people don't like transferring if it is uncomfortable, inconvenient and unreliable - so fixing it is more difficult than just rerouting a few buses. We need frequency, and good quality facilities for transferring from buses to trains - so you don't get wet or run over - at St Peters, Mascot, Green Sq, Newtown, Edgecliff, Crows Nest etc etc.
You're ignoring the fact that buses already exist for some of these connections.
You can already take multiple buses from Campsie to Burwood for example right now.
Transfers in Sydney are not desirable because they haven't been designed into the system. Like you said, the transport system was designed to move people from the suburbs to the CBD. The North West Metro is so successful in part to it's cross platform change with the T1.
Look at Lidcombe as a great example. If you are changing on any line to head into the city you are going over a bridge to get to the Inner west line from the western line. So people travelling from the west who want to get on to the T8 change a parramatta instead of Lidcombe as there are escalators at Parramatta and the train is essentially waiting their for it, rather than having 3 minutes to get from one platform to the other.
Personally, on top of north south rail links, I think we need to consider station redesigns on part of our network. We have the old Clyburn station that has plenty of space around where we could build a western line cross platform transfer, and perhaps this could replace Clyde station putting a bit more space between Granville and Clyde. Or consider a similar proposal at Flemington. These are just thought experiments (expensive ones) but people will expect their services to go direct to the city until they are shown a better way.
Thanks for another interesting video. There's a Transport for NSW plan to open a new monster sized bus depot at Macquarie Park. There's also the Herring Road (Mac Uni, Macquarie Centre) Mac Park bus interchange and Talavera Rd layover area in the works after the upgrades to bus lanes around the area. It would make a lot of sense to then terminate the M2 services at Mac Uni station.
its not possible to terminate anything there, the station is not designed for this. Only in Epping, where it used to be terminated when it was train, not metro.
One thing I'm a little confused about: a lot of people are saying the new metro will take the T3 off of the city circle. My understanding was that they were just redirecting the T3 via lidcombe and then to the city via the main western line. So won't the city circle problem still exist there?
Also speaking of that issue with buses, my local suburban bus service sometimes only comes hourly. And that's a bus TO a train station.
They are replacing two T3 branches (Lidcombe & Liverpool) with one T2 branch. So there will be one less branch line running into the City Circle.
@@bendowson3124 That seems like it'd be unnecessarily confusing, over just redirecting the T3?
Why don't they do each section separately rather than all in one go? Sydenham to Canterbury then campsie to Lakemba then Punchbowl to Bankstown.
Or they could just do between two stations at a time like Sydenham to Dulwich Hill and have buses between those two stations only.
Reduces bus travel distance and ensures people can get on the metro faster over the whole year.
00:40 Best suggestion!
Wow sponsorship by a ball shaver. You've really made it now Sharrath, congrats. Once you get Raid Shadow Legends and Nord VPN, or Surfshark VPN, you've hit the sponsorship trifecta :)
I’ve joined as a Ko-Fi supporter!
Great video and some very good ideas suggested which sadly may be overnighted by the respective authorities!
RIP the carlingford line 😭😭
BAMBUL!!
Why don't they close half the line? Instead of all of it at once?
One problem I see in less direct bus services is the Opal fare system. You have to pay again for every new service other than the same mode. Hence, you pay more when taking a bus to the train and then heading into the city then taking a direct bus to the city. I suppose that doesn't count for the replacement buses but still, it's a problem of Sydney's fare scheme which is less integrated. For a German, that is very uncommon since we pay one fare for every journey over here.
The advantage of the Opal system is that this is not essential. Implementing a 'no penalty for transfer' is nothing more than a software issue. And if you want to be really creative, you could give a rebate (say 20c) for transfers that are considered beneficial - it would really take off then!
Transfers to a different mode of transport have a $2 discount applied (for adult opal cards/contactless cards)
@@__will__bl I'm guessing that is relative to the two separate fares and not relative to staying on the original bus... which it should be. Happy to be corrected if wrong.
Existing trains & Syd Metro are both on standard gauge & using the same DC, can you explain more why it will take 1 year to convert it?
Transferring an existing line to Metro maybe a waste of $. If the double decker trains starts from Regents Park via Bankstown to end at Sydenham frequency can be increased without going into City Circle.
The other frankly outrageous thing about these replacement buses is that you will still be legally required to tap on even though only 30% of the buses will have opal readers.
The designers of the 423 bus route have 1000 IQ because instead of terminating it at Kingsgrove shops/station, they terminated it at Kingsgrove depot like 500 meters away where there is virtually nothing.
Great vid, keep it up!
It's not legal lol, learn the difference
@@74_pelicans But if you don’t (on an opal enabled bus) , it would be fare dodging which is illegal
Shortage of drivers? How many are needed for complementary turn up and go service for the Carlingford Light Rail passengers wishing to travel to Epping and thence Macquarie Park and the CBD. Currently passengers on the light rail will have to go backwards to Parramatta to join services to the CBD.
Saying "a train every 4min in peak, every 10min off peak" is only partially correct. The EIS shows a train through the city every 5min between peaks (9am-3pm) as well, it's only going to be every 10min before 7am, after 7pm and on weekends.
I think one reason people are so funny about having to transfer is that most transfer experiences in Sydney are crap - not enough escalators, poor frequency, road space doesn't prioritise transit+bike+walking, bus reliability is often terrible. In Berlin it is totally normal to have to change 2x or 3x to get where you want to go, but it's not that big of a deal because trains+trams+buses are frequent and interchanges are well laid-out.
I don't have this issue. If people want to take a bike somewhere they should ride the bike for the whole distance instead of taking up room on trains. Roads in Sydney are notoriously narrow (Many of those inner city roads are 70 years older than the city of Melbourne - understandable as to why they were not widened early in the peace) and there is no room to devote to bikes or making footpaths wider.
We need to stop the mindset that Sydney should become more like Paris, Berlin or Amsterdam. Sydney should be like Sydney. In Sydney, buildings just can't be knocked down wholesale anymore, which is why the NSW Government has built more km of tunnels for roads and railways than any other Australian government combined in the previous 12 years, and with more being built now. Berlin was blown off the map during WWII, so it has been easier for the Germans to up-spec things and make Berlin a biker's paradise. Berlin is also smaller in population so there should in reality be fewer traffic snarls.
More than 500,000 people enter the Sydney Metropolitan Area for work Monday-Friday either via the intercity rail network or the four major road entry points, Pacific, Princes, Western and Hume Motorways. That compounds the problem in a city of 5m+.
@@vintageradio3404 So putting surface traffic in tunnels *only* lowers traffic & congestion overall if you combine that with a second action: taking surface space away from private vehicles and giving it back to other modes (trams, buses, cycleways, shared paths, footpaths and public space). If you just build more road capacity you will get more cars - you reap what you sow, so to speak. Billions of dollars of new road tunnels was a bad move if you then don't have the cahunas to actually challenge car brane.
Your point about Sydney not being a bike-friendly city is just nonsense, if you go and have a look at videos from the 1920s and 1930s you will see plenty of bikes around all over the place, from the Harbour Bridge to the SCG/SFS area in Moore Park to Oxford Street and Parramatta Road. Cycling was a part of Sydney culture and still is despite the road regime and their efforts. Cycling is now even more viable than it ever was in the past, as we now have ebikes which are extremely climate-friendly, help alot on hills and increase overall average speed by 25-50%. Cyclists aren't asking for that much, they're just asking for the network of cycleways and safe streets that already exists in patches to be joined up.
Your history is also off, many of Sydney's inner-city streets that predate Melbourne WERE widened with older buildings aquired and demo'ed, some of them several times. And finally, I don't really get why you have made the point about Berlin having wider roads in the context I mentioned which was trains+trams+bus interchange even outside the core being far more comfortable?
@@BigBlueMan118 "So putting surface traffic in tunnels only lowers traffic & congestion overall if you combine that with a second action"
Not correct. Two prime examples of why have occurred in the last week with respect to the Lane Cove Tunnel. When the tunnel was complete, the then government altered the old road by narrowing it from six lanes to two lanes, with a further two reserved for buses, a slight widening of footpaths and a bike lane. No-one uses the bike lane, there are no extra people walking on the widened footpaths and in the last week we have had a vehicle fire in the tunnel and another one just near the western tunnel portal. Traffic was diverted onto the old road (Epping Road) on both occasions and because the bus lanes have enforcement cameras, we have three lanes of traffic moving at 100km/h at the end of the M2 Motorway being reduced to 60km/h in just one available lane.
Seriously, does that make any sense at all? Epping Road is also quite undulating which discourages most people from using their feet and bikes in the area. There are also no shops there, so it's a bit difficult to buy a drink to rehydrate when exercising.
When WestConnex was built, lessons learned from that translated into old arterial roads being left as they were for the most part. Roads such as the Princes Highway and Parramatta Road were left as is and this is the right thing to do.
Whilst I support trams returning to Parramatta Road (there is capacity on the George Street portion of the L2 line for this purpose) it cannot come at the expense of the right we all have to drive somewhere. I am a big user of public transport myself, yet I cannot carry a new fridge home on a tram or bus but it'll fit quite well in the boot of my station wagon.
@@BigBlueMan118 "Your history is also off, many of Sydney's inner-city streets that predate Melbourne WERE widened with older buildings aquired and demo'ed, some of them several times."
Roads were not widened that much. Governor Macquarie widened and straightened many roads in Sydney's CBD but we are talking about laneways being converted to an equivalent of a four lane carriageway, which is not really suited to combined use. Roads outside of the CBD have rarely been widened for any reason. There are exceptions - but not very many.
Why don't you understand why comparisons are being made? It is simply the case that widening colonial-era roads in Sydney and its inner suburbs is politically prohibitive. Sydney once did have many reservations for future roads and the Labor government led by Neville Wran sold them all to property developers in the 1970s and 1980s. As mentioned before, the only way around this is to build tunnels.
Sydney is officially Australia's tunnel city.
@@vintageradio3404
1) “No-one uses the bike lane, there are no extra people walking on the widened footpaths”
This is anecdotal not documented evidence, you also ignored the bus lanes which transport WAY more people than a private vehicle lane can (somewhere around 10x as many)
2) “in the last week we have had a vehicle fire in the tunnel and another one just near the western tunnel portal” This is by definition an extraordinary event, we don’t use this to measure the effectiveness of a transport policy other than to plan for redundancy, and the redundancy is in the bus & train networks (which is about to get a lot more redundancy when Metro C&SW opens)
3) “Traffic was diverted onto the old road (Epping Road) on both occasions and because the bus lanes have enforcement cameras, we have three lanes of traffic moving at 100km/h at the end of the M2 Motorway being reduced to 60km/h in just one available lane. Seriously, does that make any sense at all?” Yes it does, the situation would obviously be way worse and much more unfair if you disrupted bus operations, and the buses as I said can carry 10x the amount of people as allowing private vehicles to use the bus lane would. Induced demand is also a thing, if you open a new tunnel and don’t reduce surface capacity, in a growing city cars just clog up both. The only way to reduce congestion is providing attractive viable alternatives to driving - that would be the bus lanes and widened cycleways you mentioned.
4) “Epping Road is also quite undulating which discourages most people from using their feet and bikes in the area.” Part of the problem is obviously people trying to avoid the tolls, but you’re right - needs more density along it near the stations, and slower speeds as well as expanding the bike infrastructure to better connect to places people actually want to go rather than dumping you out into dangerous stroads.
5) “When WestConnex was built, lessons learned from that translated into old arterial roads being left as they were for the most part. Roads such as the Princes Highway and Parramatta Road were left as is and this is the right thing to do.” This wasn’t the original plan, the Government backed down and caved in to car brane - I worked on WestConnex in the air quality modelling. The Government were promising that King St Newtown, Parramatta Road and Victoria Road would be having their capacity and speeds reduced and returned space to people and transit. Totally the wrong call, you have just increased how attractive driving is, you will just get more drivers and you are losing the chance to increase productivity in these corridors which have potential to be some of the most productive in the country.
6) “Whilst I support trams returning to Parramatta Road (there is capacity on the George Street portion of the L2 line for this purpose)” This is incorrect, currently George Street is running 16 trams per hour, 8 on each branch. It was designed to run 30 trams per hour or 15 on each branch, and it is already struggling to meet demand with the existing services in the medium-term. By the time a Parramatta Road line could be built (2029-2031 if you started now) George Street will already need all the capacity for the SE. You have some options and I dunno what the best is. Option 1 you could initially terminate Parramatta Rd LR at Railway Square, Option 2 you could build new tracks down Pitt Street then turn left onto Liverpool Street to Museum and continue down Oxford Street, Option 3 you could find a way to link into the L1 but L1 is limited to shorter 33m trams not the 50m high-capacity trams you want for Parramatta Road, or Option 4 you could build new tracks down Elizabeth Street and redirect SE services to Elizabeth Street which is probably my preference as it speeds up SE journeys about 4 minutes.
7) “it cannot come at the expense of the right we all have to drive somewhere” That’s fine but not in busy areas that are activity hubs, and you will find that light cycles currently are timed to the advantage of drivers rather than pedestrians and cyclists (with exceptions like George Street or Martin Place of course). Around activity hubs you should have to drive extremely slowly and traffic should be routed around them. Pedestrian streets should be massively expanded in the city once the new Metro line opens, you will be able to have over 230 trains & trams arriving per hour in the CBD. Streets aren’t exclusive to cars, streets have been shared spaces and places of activities for thousands of years.
8) “I cannot carry a new fridge home on a tram or bus but it'll fit quite well in the boot of my station wagon.” That’s also fine, but we can have slow speeds and loading zones on largely-pedestrianised streets and you and everyone else still benefit on the days you don’t have to transport a fridge (probably 364 days per year if not more). Also you would be surprised how good modern cargo bikes are for transporting items, people use them for everything in Europe and I have seen them in Sydney too, they will get more popular as the cost of driving increases.
9) “Roads were not widened that much. Governor Macquarie widened and straightened many roads in Sydney's CBD but we are talking about laneways being converted to an equivalent of a four lane carriageway, which is not really suited to combined use.” I watched a talk by some Sydney Uni historians that mentioned George Street and Broadway had buildings acquired at least 3 times, Oxford Street at least twice, both are now >20m wide which is wide enough for trams + 1 lane of traffic + wider footpaths which is all that’s being discussed here?
10) “Roads outside of the CBD have rarely been widened for any reason. There are exceptions - but not very many.” Parramatta Road, the Pacific Highway, Oxford Street, Military Road, Canterbury Road appear to have been widened quite extensively if you look at the 1943 aerial imagery of Sydney or do a quick google search. But fair - usually they just thrust motorways on people and acquired property that way.
11) “Sydney once did have many reservations for future roads and the Labor government led by Neville Wran sold them all to property developers in the 1970s and 1980s.” Good, we don’t need additional roads or road capacity in the corridors they sold, we are in a climate crisis - we need trains, trams, buses and cycling infrastructure.
12) “As mentioned before, the only way around this is to build tunnels.” This will just make driving more attractive and increase private transport use - why do you refuse to understand the pretty simple concept of induced demand? The ONLY way to improve the city is to provide valuable alternatives to driving. Public transport and cycling have WAY more capacity for the space used than highways, that’s why Los Angeles is not stupid enough to do what Sydney doing and its voters voted for a massive $100bn+ public transport expansion to bypass their bottlenecks, and using their highways for new rail lines and bus rapid transit.
It's pretty bad where there are tight turns too - there's a couple of busy intersections like Campsie Station and in Belmore where there's now lots of buses trying to squeeze through places that are a challenge for many SUV drivers. Campsie is particularly bad due to the cars creeping forwar so the bus just has to sit in the intersection until that motorist realises that they have to back up and let the bus through. I reckon 49 minutes is an underestimate. (but I just see this as I'm riding my bike through there, along the really crappy not-very-official bike route)
Express busses are also importent. Here in melbourne it was better for me to get a highway express bus rather than taking the train at many hours of the day. Express services on the train network are limited to peak travel times and statiions might be too close to make the most of the rail top speeds
i'm guessing that people stop between stops not everyone goes to the city, hence they have to follow the lines
No reason not to have all stops for local services and send the express services to nodes on the lines.
manscaped sponsor 🙏🙏🙏 building beautifully stocks up
hiii can u do a video on new rail plans / new stations being built pls
As a resident of a regional area of New South Wales, I would like to correct some terminology. TfNSW, actually, stands for Transport for Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong as they have forgotten about regional transport for the last 50+ years. However, after talking with my cousins who live in Newcastle and Wollongong, it appears that it should be renamed to Transport for Sydney. While you are worrying about saving 6 minutes in Sydney, in the Hunter Valley passenger trains are pushed into passing loops for 20 minutes on the single track, non-electrofied line to give priority to the coal trains.
Yes, something of an oversight not to duplicate the "Great Northern Line" between Singleton and Muswellbrook, given that a significant increase in coal traffic is now happening. That includes many more coal trains now running from Wilpinjong and Ulan on the Sandy Hollow Line adding to the congestion on the Main North .
"Oversight" is however something that our rail administrations seem to excel at.
Suburbs West of Dulwich Hill always getting shafted