This is the second time I've seen someone having an issue from trying sheets. Just guessing, but it does look like the tight weave is the problem. Bubbles galore and not optimal adhesion. I cannot stress enough how grateful I am to people who share the flubs. Saves a LOT of people a lot of frustration, time, and money.
Just found your channel. Great series of videos I went back and watched every one. I am in the process of building my second truck camper I have posted a couple of videos on my RUclips channel. I used PMF on the first one drop cloths on the roof and sheets on the sides for a smoother surface. Your camper is coming along nicely I am looking forward to seeing the rest of the build. Great job on the videos and the camper!
Thanks!! I actually spent 3 hours yesterday trying to upload my newest video... I’m trying to start truck camper tuesdays haha... a bit late already ...I’m glad you are enjoying the videos!! I will check out your build too...
Cotton Sheet basic weave types come as percale, sateen, jersey, or pinpoint. The thread count determines density of vertical and horizontal threads per sq inch of fabric, so 100h x 100v per sq in is 200 thread count fabric. Percale is usually 200 to 400. Sateen is 300 to 600. If you were using linen sheets, they would be stronger even with a thread count of 80 to 140. Some sheets have thread counts in the 1000s. Higher thread counts stifle air or fluid flow compared to lower thread count. Also, "excessive" thread count decreases toughness and durability.
The best way to apply larger areas is to take it only several feet at one time, roll about two feet, roll the canvas and the wood, slick it down, then roll the next two feet. This way you always get good adhesion with wet on wet. And the Bondo wont help. PVA isn't formulated to stick to that shit. It isn't the moisture, its having air bubbles trapped. If you need to resolute PVA, use denatured alcohol to soften the glue, then reapply more glue. Once PVA dries for several days, it is nearly impermeable, and won't take new glue over top.
I used a very good quality landscape filter fabric, turned out really good. I see your glue did not readily pass thru your cloth. I used 48" width, overlapped 3". Really happy, i did water down one ounce water for each one quart batch. Slight texture look after two primer and two paint coats. Mine is a pop top camper roof. 17:27
I honestly had problems anywhere I had glue overly soaking through as I applied it … the canvas is fully covered in glue from both sides … . I had tried watering it down , even soaking the canvas in a bucket of watered down glue … in the end , the way I did it have me the best results .. but I’m sure there are better ways .. I’m always curious to see how other people do it .. I’m glad it worked out for you !
yes I did a DCU style camper shell with poormans fiberglass, not enough glue or too much is a pain, I was also trying to do it in the open sun here in SC and the evaporation rate was really fast, I might of had 2 mins working time, so some areas bubbled from glue starvation yet it was a good layer layed down...I also did the bondo over the rough areas of the plywood like you did had it nice and smooth like you did...lol I should have stopped there and painted it with some outdoor acrylic or some of that thick elastometric paint. Probably in a controlled environment poormans fiberglass will work good
First of all you should not water it down at all. That will only take away it glue properties. And secondly, you should sand it down to get rid of all the high spots and make it smoother, then give it another coat. After the second coat, sand it good again and give it a third coat. I like to take my time and use a large paint brush instead of a roller. I did mine that way and it feels just like fiberglass. It's smooth and not as brittle so I think it will hold up better.
PMF does save money but a big time consumer for sure. But that is mostly what diy is about -- saving money. I had purchased some supplies for PMF, glue and cloth, may not use it. As I get older(56now) I am thinking my time is a little more valuable and so now I am researching things like foam boards and an honeycomb materials. Cheers
It is time consuming … learning anything new is as well …but it’s fun to learn and try new things too … pretty sure my next build will be a van … if I do one from scratch again, it will be a small lightweight shell or something easier haha
How much cheaper is PMF than real fiberglass and epoxy really? I don’t see the savings as worth the trade offs of durability, strength, longevity, water proof ness, and ease of use.
Well you are right about the price.. it should be called slightly cheaper mans fibreglass…. I don’t know if I would use it again, but it is what this project is made with haha..
OMG, I am seeing this so much now... using Bondo for smoothing the surface under where you want to put the Tightbond, and this is not going to age well with the Tightbond... PVA is not good for all surfaces, it likes raw wood. The wood glue will be likely to delaminate over time.
Thanks for sharing the experience. But that is the question i had from the beginning and especially on quality jobs like this, why not epoxy and fiberglass. It is not an actual question I am asking now, i have some answers, it is cheaper and possibly lighter. But is is not much cheaper and not much lighter, and epoxy should last longer. But if they sink all that money into solid plywood panels and wooden frame anyway, an extra couple hundred dollars is probably worth it to get better protection and a more solid structure. And even if they built it cheap, like with no real frame or thinner panels, etc... then they still benefit using fiberglass because it is stronger than PMF. They might be able to cheap out on other stuff by using fiberglass, and still have reasonably solid structure. I said might, i am no pro, but i know how the common DIY thinks.
Well it all started from an idea … and poormans fibreglass was supposed to hold up just fine… I’m pretty confident the end product will be ok… but I am considering doing the roof with epoxy … although I have my concerns with developing a reaction to said epoxy .. which also swayed my decision in the beginning … also the paint to use over the fibreglass/epoxy is also not as friendly to work with as exterior latex, although it will probably hold up better … it was decided that this project was a pmf project and I went with it .. time will tell if it was a poor decision haha… I am suffering some analysis paralysis on what to do with the roof … I think actual fibreglass would be smarter …
No. Titebond can be diluted with an additinoal 5% water: any more and strength begins to decrease, may no longer meet specifications. Best way to determine if a particular process will work is to make a test article and then test it. IMO clear vinegar is the way to dilute.
Presently it is about 800 pounds calculated by the weight of the materials .. I can still lift one end off the ground … I guess we will see what the final weight will be .. it was certainly never planned to be on an import or halfton …
The first thing you want to do is make sure your top is low enough to leave an overlap AT THE BOTTOM... not set the bottom- work from the top down, and get the air out, no wonder you are having issues with air bubbles!!!
Feel free to watch the video where I changed canvas, sanded off the bondo and had success. It may delaminate over time, but so far has been doing just fine.. I haven’t watched this in awhile.. I’m not sure what you mean by an overlap at the bottom.. my camper is upside down here
@@mikesniedze9122 To successfully sqreed all air out of a glue covered canvas, with little effort as possible, go from the top to the bottom, aligning the canvas where you can drop it , squeegee the canvas from the top to the bottom, using gravity to help you, any extra canvas at the bottom, just cut it off. I know your camper is upside down, that is not relevant to the application process.
Sound advice.. I positive part of the problem with these thin sheets is they were not 100 percent cotton as advertised… they were overly stretchy , and I really had to pull it excessively tight to get out the wrinkles … it started shrinking as it dried and started crating bubble too… I did not have this issue with thicker drop cloths
@@mikesniedze9122 I use thinner 100% cotton linens I find at fabric stores. more expensive, but are lighter, thinner, and do the same job, just make sure the thread count is over 700 LPI and its plenty strong.
True canvas was made of hemp but the weave is matters when doing poor man’s fib. it shrinks and leaves no or very little air holes and it’s way stronger. those thin sheets are garbage.. I think your doing too much too fast
I haven’t watched this one in awhile , but in the end I figured out how to successfully apply it .. there is definitely a square footage limit to apply at one time .. I ended up using coarse drop cloths that worked much better .. but they are probably not ideal either … but they worked and I like the look of the rough weave.. I also pre washed and dried them to shrink them
@@mikesniedze9122 I know it is too late for you now but this is for anyone else considering PMF. I didn't try myself yet, but i noticed people using an iron when applying the material over the glue also. Maybe it works to help with some of those problems you had. But like you said only apply so much sq. footage of glue at a time also. But when laying the cotton material on they use an iron, and maybe it helps thin the glue and spread the glue evenly under the cloth, at the same time helping curing preventing the air from bubbling.
I tried an iron … just got burnt glue on it lol… my video poormans fibreglass success shows how I eventually succeeded… part of the problem was these thin sheets.. I’m convinced they were a lot polyester, and not 100 percent cotton as stated … I saw a lot of people rolling on one coat of glue on the wood , and the placing their canvas on.. and that’s it… then multiple coats of thinned paint , getting thicker with each coat… I know in my heart they did not have enough glue .. part of the strength is how the glue soaks in to wood( or canvas ) that was part of the problem in spots I used bondo.. no absorption… I think I have it figured out … it seems well adhered and painted ( 3 coats primer, 3 coats exterior latex ) time will ultimately tell… worst thing to happen is I build a better camper😆
@@mikesniedze9122 what was the heat/temp setting on your iron, and did you use a pressing cloth? Pressing cloth keeps glue off the soleplate. Titebond II has been reported to give stronger joints when heated to 280 F (140 C). The best setting would be "acrylic" or "medium." Cotton can withstand 400 F (200 C). Most irons have temp settings, and for many irons getting to 250 F (120 C) on the soleplate can be a challenge. At that point it comes down to max watts and press time. Irons over 1000 watts on max setting will definitely scorch, but one w a dependable temp setting should be fine on acrylic, medium or medium high if you use a non- contact thermometer...
Don’t thin the glue for the first coat, you only thin the second coat over the cloth so the glue can penetrate all the way through the cloth to bond with the first coat of glue. I had zero problems
I ended up applying it full strength .. the thin sheets I initially used were not 100 percent cotton I’m sure , though they were supposed to be … when I switched to thicker drop cloths, I had no problems .. not to be argumentative , but yellow glue doesn’t bond stick to itself once dried … part of its strength comes from its soaking in ability .. but if your canvas was bonded well, then the thinned coat would fill the weave and seal it …
@@mikesniedze9122 the video I watched said that the glue would bond with the base coat as long as it was titebond ll. It said not to use titebond lll for second coat because it would not bond with base coat. All I know is I had zero problems and after 2 years sitting in the Florida sun and rain still zero problems. I guess as long as it works it doesn’t really matter what method you use. Lol
I agree.. I’m glad it worked out… speaking from a woodworking perspective, I f I rolled glue on a piece of wood , and let it dry, then added fresh glue and another piece of wood,the bond would be incredibly weak .. structurally speaking .. at any rate, I’m glad yours is holding up well! Hot sun can be as problematic as rain
This is the second time I've seen someone having an issue from trying sheets. Just guessing, but it does look like the tight weave is the problem. Bubbles galore and not optimal adhesion. I cannot stress enough how grateful I am to people who share the flubs. Saves a LOT of people a lot of frustration, time, and money.
The tight weave was definitely a problem haha !! I had much more success with the thicker, rougher drop cloths ..
Just found your channel. Great series of videos I went back and watched every one. I am in the process of building my second truck camper I have posted a couple of videos on my RUclips channel. I used PMF on the first one drop cloths on the roof and sheets on the sides for a smoother surface. Your camper is coming along nicely I am looking forward to seeing the rest of the build. Great job on the videos and the camper!
Thanks!! I actually spent 3 hours yesterday trying to upload my newest video... I’m trying to start truck camper tuesdays haha... a bit late already ...I’m glad you are enjoying the videos!! I will check out your build too...
Haha.. I just watched and liked a few of your videos the other day ... great work on the camper
Cotton Sheet basic weave types come as percale, sateen, jersey, or pinpoint. The thread count determines density of vertical and horizontal threads per sq inch of fabric, so 100h x 100v per sq in is 200 thread count fabric. Percale is usually 200 to 400. Sateen is 300 to 600. If you were using linen sheets, they would be stronger even with a thread count of 80 to 140. Some sheets have thread counts in the 1000s. Higher thread counts stifle air or fluid flow compared to lower thread count. Also, "excessive" thread count decreases toughness and durability.
The best way to apply larger areas is to take it only several feet at one time, roll about two feet, roll the canvas and the wood, slick it down, then roll the next two feet. This way you always get good adhesion with wet on wet. And the Bondo wont help. PVA isn't formulated to stick to that shit. It isn't the moisture, its having air bubbles trapped. If you need to resolute PVA, use denatured alcohol to soften the glue, then reapply more glue. Once PVA dries for several days, it is nearly impermeable, and won't take new glue over top.
I used a very good quality landscape filter fabric, turned out really good. I see your glue did not readily pass thru your cloth. I used 48" width, overlapped 3". Really happy, i did water down one ounce water for each one quart batch. Slight texture look after two primer and two paint coats. Mine is a pop top camper roof. 17:27
I honestly had problems anywhere I had glue overly soaking through as I applied it … the canvas is fully covered in glue from both sides … . I had tried watering it down , even soaking the canvas in a bucket of watered down glue … in the end , the way I did it have me the best results .. but I’m sure there are better ways .. I’m always curious to see how other people do it .. I’m glad it worked out for you !
yes I did a DCU style camper shell with poormans fiberglass, not enough glue or too much is a pain, I was also trying to do it in the open sun here in SC and the evaporation rate was really fast, I might of had 2 mins working time, so some areas bubbled from glue starvation yet it was a good layer layed down...I also did the bondo over the rough areas of the plywood like you did had it nice and smooth like you did...lol I should have stopped there and painted it with some outdoor acrylic or some of that thick elastometric paint. Probably in a controlled environment poormans fiberglass will work good
Haha.. yes eventually I seem to have figured it out .. time will tell if it lasts … but so far I’m pretty happy with the results …
First of all you should not water it down at all. That will only take away it glue properties. And secondly, you should sand it down to get rid of all the high spots and make it smoother, then give it another coat. After the second coat, sand it good again and give it a third coat. I like to take my time and use a large paint brush instead of a roller. I did mine that way and it feels just like fiberglass. It's smooth and not as brittle so I think it will hold up better.
PMF does save money but a big time consumer for sure. But that is mostly what diy is about -- saving money. I had purchased some supplies for PMF, glue and cloth, may not use it. As I get older(56now) I am thinking my time is a little more valuable and so now I am researching things like foam boards and an honeycomb materials.
Cheers
It is time consuming … learning anything new is as well …but it’s fun to learn and try new things too … pretty sure my next build will be a van … if I do one from scratch again, it will be a small lightweight shell or something easier haha
How much cheaper is PMF than real fiberglass and epoxy really? I don’t see the savings as worth the trade offs of durability, strength, longevity, water proof ness, and ease of use.
Well you are right about the price.. it should be called slightly cheaper mans fibreglass…. I don’t know if I would use it again, but it is what this project is made with haha..
OMG, I am seeing this so much now... using Bondo for smoothing the surface under where you want to put the Tightbond, and this is not going to age well with the Tightbond... PVA is not good for all surfaces, it likes raw wood. The wood glue will be likely to delaminate over time.
Thanks for sharing the experience. But that is the question i had from the beginning and especially on quality jobs like this, why not epoxy and fiberglass. It is not an actual question I am asking now, i have some answers, it is cheaper and possibly lighter. But is is not much cheaper and not much lighter, and epoxy should last longer. But if they sink all that money into solid plywood panels and wooden frame anyway, an extra couple hundred dollars is probably worth it to get better protection and a more solid structure. And even if they built it cheap, like with no real frame or thinner panels, etc... then they still benefit using fiberglass because it is stronger than PMF. They might be able to cheap out on other stuff by using fiberglass, and still have reasonably solid structure. I said might, i am no pro, but i know how the common DIY thinks.
Well it all started from an idea … and poormans fibreglass was supposed to hold up just fine… I’m pretty confident the end product will be ok… but I am considering doing the roof with epoxy … although I have my concerns with developing a reaction to said epoxy .. which also swayed my decision in the beginning … also the paint to use over the fibreglass/epoxy is also not as friendly to work with as exterior latex, although it will probably hold up better … it was decided that this project was a pmf project and I went with it .. time will tell if it was a poor decision haha…
I am suffering some analysis paralysis on what to do with the roof … I think actual fibreglass would be smarter …
Go with fiberglass and epoxy. Your investment is worth it and not that much more money. RAKA brand is very reasonable.
Well it’s a bit late now haha… the camper body is completed and primed … maybe on the next one
Epoxy with the canvas. Glue will never last.. you need to apply glue to the wood until it stops absorbing the glue then apply canvas.
@bill soderholm probably bev$1000 to fiberglass that thing
Great video. I heard people dilute the glue about 10% do you think that would be a good idea.
No. Titebond can be diluted with an additinoal 5% water: any more and strength begins to decrease, may no longer meet specifications. Best way to determine if a particular process will work is to make a test article and then test it. IMO clear vinegar is the way to dilute.
C’est quoi le tissu ? C’est bien de colle d’ébénisterie que tu emploie ?
That thing must be ungodly heavy.
Presently it is about 800 pounds calculated by the weight of the materials .. I can still lift one end off the ground … I guess we will see what the final weight will be .. it was certainly never planned to be on an import or halfton …
Well thats actually not as bad as I expected. Good luck with it.
What do you think hard sided campers typically weigh there mr D.beck yuppie? I mean most are well over 1200lbs dry
The first thing you want to do is make sure your top is low enough to leave an overlap AT THE BOTTOM... not set the bottom- work from the top down, and get the air out, no wonder you are having issues with air bubbles!!!
Feel free to watch the video where I changed canvas, sanded off the bondo and had success. It may delaminate over time, but so far has been doing just fine.. I haven’t watched this in awhile.. I’m not sure what you mean by an overlap at the bottom.. my camper is upside down here
@@mikesniedze9122 To successfully sqreed all air out of a glue covered canvas, with little effort as possible, go from the top to the bottom, aligning the canvas where you can drop it , squeegee the canvas from the top to the bottom, using gravity to help you, any extra canvas at the bottom, just cut it off. I know your camper is upside down, that is not relevant to the application process.
Sound advice.. I positive part of the problem with these thin sheets is they were not 100 percent cotton as advertised… they were overly stretchy , and I really had to pull it excessively tight to get out the wrinkles … it started shrinking as it dried and started crating bubble too… I did not have this issue with thicker drop cloths
@@mikesniedze9122 I use thinner 100% cotton linens I find at fabric stores. more expensive, but are lighter, thinner, and do the same job, just make sure the thread count is over 700 LPI and its plenty strong.
True canvas was made of hemp but the weave is matters when doing poor man’s fib.
it shrinks and leaves no or very little air holes and it’s way stronger.
those thin sheets are garbage..
I think your doing too much too fast
I haven’t watched this one in awhile , but in the end I figured out how to successfully apply it .. there is definitely a square footage limit to apply at one time .. I ended up using coarse drop cloths that worked much better .. but they are probably not ideal either … but they worked and I like the look of the rough weave.. I also pre washed and dried them to shrink them
@@mikesniedze9122 I know it is too late for you now but this is for anyone else considering PMF. I didn't try myself yet, but i noticed people using an iron when applying the material over the glue also. Maybe it works to help with some of those problems you had. But like you said only apply so much sq. footage of glue at a time also. But when laying the cotton material on they use an iron, and maybe it helps thin the glue and spread the glue evenly under the cloth, at the same time helping curing preventing the air from bubbling.
I tried an iron … just got burnt glue on it lol… my video poormans fibreglass success shows how I eventually succeeded… part of the problem was these thin sheets.. I’m convinced they were a lot polyester, and not 100 percent cotton as stated … I saw a lot of people rolling on one coat of glue on the wood , and the placing their canvas on.. and that’s it… then multiple coats of thinned paint , getting thicker with each coat… I know in my heart they did not have enough glue .. part of the strength is how the glue soaks in to wood( or canvas ) that was part of the problem in spots I used bondo.. no absorption… I think I have it figured out … it seems well adhered and painted ( 3 coats primer, 3 coats exterior latex ) time will ultimately tell… worst thing to happen is I build a better camper😆
@@mikesniedze9122 what was the heat/temp setting on your iron, and did you use a pressing cloth? Pressing cloth keeps glue off the soleplate. Titebond II has been reported to give stronger joints when heated to 280 F (140 C). The best setting would be "acrylic" or "medium." Cotton can withstand 400 F (200 C). Most irons have temp settings, and for many irons getting to 250 F (120 C) on the soleplate can be a challenge. At that point it comes down to max watts and press time. Irons over 1000 watts on max setting will definitely scorch, but one w a dependable temp setting should be fine on acrylic, medium or medium high if you use a non- contact thermometer...
One of the big problems with what you did that I can see is you tried to use almost strait glue and it needs to be 50/50 glue water.
Why did you caption “fail?”
I captioned fail because I had to pull some of my first pieces off .. they were a definite fail… they did not work out at all
I was with ya till the crappy music started. Really?
Thanks for your taking time out of your life for the input . Have a wonderful day
Don’t thin the glue for the first coat, you only thin the second coat over the cloth so the glue can penetrate all the way through the cloth to bond with the first coat of glue. I had zero problems
I ended up applying it full strength .. the thin sheets I initially used were not 100 percent cotton I’m sure , though they were supposed to be … when I switched to thicker drop cloths, I had no problems ..
not to be argumentative , but yellow glue doesn’t bond stick to itself once dried … part of its strength comes from its soaking in ability .. but if your canvas was bonded well, then the thinned coat would fill the weave and seal it …
@@mikesniedze9122 the video I watched said that the glue would bond with the base coat as long as it was titebond ll. It said not to use titebond lll for second coat because it would not bond with base coat. All I know is I had zero problems and after 2 years sitting in the Florida sun and rain still zero problems. I guess as long as it works it doesn’t really matter what method you use. Lol
I agree.. I’m glad it worked out… speaking from a woodworking perspective, I f I rolled glue on a piece of wood , and let it dry, then added fresh glue and another piece of wood,the bond would be incredibly weak .. structurally speaking .. at any rate, I’m glad yours is holding up well! Hot sun can be as problematic as rain