What I really like about this video is not only does it teach me the wrong smokes to avoid doing and the right smokes to do, but it also teaches me how to play around the wrong smokes when my opponent does them and punish them for it... thanks lothar.
Great video Lothar! A lot of useful knowledge that someone might say that is "basic" but basics are the most important and still majority is doing it wrong xp
Lotus smokes were really useful I always do the stairs smokes and never knew. But currently I’m in Gold and nobody else do smokes like those so I feel like I would get blamed if we lost rounds with those smokes
Immortal 3 controller main player here. I randomly came across this video and think it’s really well made, but I genuinely disagree with a few of the arguments and believe it could be misleading to players trying to improve. Hopefully I can start a meaningful discussion: 1. Abyss A CT/one-way on site: While this smoke could be useful for fighting when entering the site, it really hinders your team's ability to coordinate and take backsite, which is important for a successful post-plant. You obviously can’t always back out of main after planting. Smoking CT is generally the better choice since it delays rotations or even forces players hiding from utility to leave the site. It also allows your team to take better post-plant positions. For more advanced Omen players, you could even do a one-way smoke on the staircase leading to A link, so your team can push into security and gain more map control. 2. Abyss B one-way: This smoke isn’t useful if placed closer to you like you showed in the video, but if you place it on the far end, it blocks B link players’ view when rotate over. If they try to push around the smoke to kill the planter, it creates a better one-way for the attacker on backsite B. This is situational, and I agree that it’s often better to smoke B link directly to give your team more space for the post-plant. 3. Bind Hookah smoke: I’m referring to the smoke behind you if you’re playing in Hookah. Depending on timing, I think this is a great preemptive smoke. You should rarely stay and fight in Hookah, risking dying and leaving your teammate alone to defend B. That smoke gives you cover to jump back to the site when attackers chase you. Unless, of course, the plan is to hold Hookah and give up Garden, in which case that smoke would hinder you. 4. Haven smoke on both A and C: I believe it’s always better to smoke close because rotations on these maps are very fast, and it prevents immediate enemy rotations. Deeper smokes are more appropriate when re-smoking. I think this is a better general rule. 5. Icebox rafter smoke: This smoke is very useful because the angle is extremely annoying without it. Like you said, defenders can peek out of the smoke, but the same issue exists without it, especially if they have an OP. Smoking that angle at the start of the round removes a key position for defenders and often deters them from peeking. Wall smokes are still the more common choice, so that smoke can be a beneficial addition if you have a secondary smoke. 6. The A attacker smoke on Lotus: This is the point I disagree with the most. I think all controllers should know to smoke stairs most of the times. All other angles are unfavorable for defenders to dry peek. Stairs pose the highest threat as you push up. Only in rare cases, like when the defenders have an OP or are aggressively contesting A rubble, would you want to smoke further forward.
i got trashed by my team for doing the oneway on abyss B and told me to do the "bad smoke" you talked about instead. my neon actually proceeded to push our own one way and die and blame me. it's just a pain doing uncommon smokes because your team will instantly think it's bad/think you're throwing and wont even try to adapt to it
I would honestly avoid conflict and do a paranoia + tp into smoke and jump out to clear that corner with a shorty. Most players can just scale into backsite from danger, and not really be exposed to the one way and play post plant anyways. You can also prefire if you are scared. It could even be a one way for post plant. Imo, any smoke can be good, it just depends on the context and how you use it.
The lotus smokes for attacking a can be all done from a single cascade from spawn on harbour allowing your team to move with the smoke and clear everything before you cove in the choke outside site
To play devil's advocate about the Haven A/C CT smokes: 1. If they're better when put deeper then why do pro players often use the improper more shallow smokes? 2. I often see people argue the deeper smoke is worse since someone can stick around next to the smoke, get a kill and quickly hide inside it
In Abyss , I had no idea about the "plant farther away from pillar , it gives u better angle" and it makes so much sense. so does the second smoke that 1) ive never seen a single smoker do uptill my dia-asc lobbies 2) i was just saving the second smoke for re smoke , because i wasnt sure if there was a single good second smoke. i am guilty of initially doing the box smoke and once i got punished , i learnt that it was useless.
I honestly disagree wit h the bind hookah one. I think its a lot more situational, because there are situations where my team is no where to be found, not playing site or playing passive retake angles like elbow and I'm stuck in Hookah. Thus I would prefer Hookah to be smoked so I don't get pinched by attacking players scaling site, not facing danger and then clearing me.
I also disagree with the B site one way on Abyss (the left side one) because it gets cleared by Sova dart anyways. The final Lotus smoke is really bad as enemies can just rat in the smoke and spam Fade haunt. I remember that one Abyss smoke video, where he did really weird site smokes, but I suppose that is in the setting of double controller and no recon/flash comp.
@@LotharHS-VALORANT-Laboratory My apologies, on Abyss. No hate intended just genuinely curious. At least in my experience, those kinds of one ways thrown by the enemy backfired since I used it against them.
@@rword6118 yeah, that is the only point i didn't agree with. I think if you have enough util and your duelists are not scared to take backsite, you should smoke ct. This 1 way is only useful to plant the spike and play spam postplant.
wow this video made me glad Im a controller player. Some of these are so painful. like wtf is that rubble smoke lol that was the old default viper orb when you could pick it up. But like .. the attackers viper orb hahaha
I disagree with Haven A and C backsite smokes. You should box off the site on entry. On resmoke, it's better deeper. You allow enemies to peek in and out of the smoke if you smoke deep initially. The closer smoke makes them fully commit if they do decide to come onto site.
If any of the sides have any flashes the smoke you prefer will help the defenders to use the flashes and be instantly on site. And the smokes you want to use will make attacker flashes way less effective.
@@LotharHS-VALORANT-Laboratory Fair. Hopefully this becomes a series though, maybe perhaps?? Or maybe a completed compendium. Either of, I and other controllers will certainly wait for them. Thanks Lothar!
first advice was so much worst no cap lets say entry duelist dashing in and he gets control of back site then duelist will struggle keeping that control because there is no smoke to help duelist as duelist i have struggled there whenever there is no smoke
@astroalex126 Let’s say it really was a 4v4 or 5v5 retake. More control on space is generally better to stall time. If you let defenders take back site so easily, spam would be not ideal as you will be util dumped with flashes. Trust me I have tried this spam strategy in 5 stack dia-asc comp games and it really doesn’t favor the attackers. The only exception is taking heaven control instead of back site, which apparently my enemies love to push towards heaven and kill the remaining site players and completely ruin the chances of a proper retake.
What I really like about this video is not only does it teach me the wrong smokes to avoid doing and the right smokes to do, but it also teaches me how to play around the wrong smokes when my opponent does them and punish them for it... thanks lothar.
Thanks!!
Icebox good smokes got cut off :(
Great video Lothar! A lot of useful knowledge that someone might say that is "basic" but basics are the most important and still majority is doing it wrong xp
Lotus smokes were really useful I always do the stairs smokes and never knew. But currently I’m in Gold and nobody else do smokes like those so I feel like I would get blamed if we lost rounds with those smokes
Immortal 3 controller main player here. I randomly came across this video and think it’s really well made, but I genuinely disagree with a few of the arguments and believe it could be misleading to players trying to improve. Hopefully I can start a meaningful discussion:
1. Abyss A CT/one-way on site: While this smoke could be useful for fighting when entering the site, it really hinders your team's ability to coordinate and take backsite, which is important for a successful post-plant. You obviously can’t always back out of main after planting. Smoking CT is generally the better choice since it delays rotations or even forces players hiding from utility to leave the site. It also allows your team to take better post-plant positions. For more advanced Omen players, you could even do a one-way smoke on the staircase leading to A link, so your team can push into security and gain more map control.
2. Abyss B one-way: This smoke isn’t useful if placed closer to you like you showed in the video, but if you place it on the far end, it blocks B link players’ view when rotate over. If they try to push around the smoke to kill the planter, it creates a better one-way for the attacker on backsite B. This is situational, and I agree that it’s often better to smoke B link directly to give your team more space for the post-plant.
3. Bind Hookah smoke: I’m referring to the smoke behind you if you’re playing in Hookah. Depending on timing, I think this is a great preemptive smoke. You should rarely stay and fight in Hookah, risking dying and leaving your teammate alone to defend B. That smoke gives you cover to jump back to the site when attackers chase you. Unless, of course, the plan is to hold Hookah and give up Garden, in which case that smoke would hinder you.
4. Haven smoke on both A and C: I believe it’s always better to smoke close because rotations on these maps are very fast, and it prevents immediate enemy rotations. Deeper smokes are more appropriate when re-smoking. I think this is a better general rule.
5. Icebox rafter smoke: This smoke is very useful because the angle is extremely annoying without it. Like you said, defenders can peek out of the smoke, but the same issue exists without it, especially if they have an OP. Smoking that angle at the start of the round removes a key position for defenders and often deters them from peeking. Wall smokes are still the more common choice, so that smoke can be a beneficial addition if you have a secondary smoke.
6. The A attacker smoke on Lotus: This is the point I disagree with the most. I think all controllers should know to smoke stairs most of the times. All other angles are unfavorable for defenders to dry peek. Stairs pose the highest threat as you push up. Only in rare cases, like when the defenders have an OP or are aggressively contesting A rubble, would you want to smoke further forward.
I used to do the Bind windows smoke and Lotus stairs smoke, and I had no idea of that Abyss one way, Thank you a lot!
i got trashed by my team for doing the oneway on abyss B and told me to do the "bad smoke" you talked about instead. my neon actually proceeded to push our own one way and die and blame me. it's just a pain doing uncommon smokes because your team will instantly think it's bad/think you're throwing and wont even try to adapt to it
I would honestly avoid conflict and do a paranoia + tp into smoke and jump out to clear that corner with a shorty. Most players can just scale into backsite from danger, and not really be exposed to the one way and play post plant anyways. You can also prefire if you are scared. It could even be a one way for post plant. Imo, any smoke can be good, it just depends on the context and how you use it.
Great Guide!
i needed to know the icebox smokes so bad and somehow it was cut weirdly , loving these tips as im trying to main clove
Man,thank you next level strategy thinking🔥
Thanks for watching!
The lotus smokes for attacking a can be all done from a single cascade from spawn on harbour allowing your team to move with the smoke and clear everything before you cove in the choke outside site
Oglądam sobie i nagle słyszę polski dubbing, naprawdę dobry akcent i przydatny materiał, pozdrawiam cieplutko
To play devil's advocate about the Haven A/C CT smokes:
1. If they're better when put deeper then why do pro players often use the improper more shallow smokes?
2. I often see people argue the deeper smoke is worse since someone can stick around next to the smoke, get a kill and quickly hide inside it
In Abyss , I had no idea about the "plant farther away from pillar , it gives u better angle" and it makes so much sense. so does the second smoke that 1) ive never seen a single smoker do uptill my dia-asc lobbies 2) i was just saving the second smoke for re smoke , because i wasnt sure if there was a single good second smoke. i am guilty of initially doing the box smoke and once i got punished , i learnt that it was useless.
The plant is one of the things that click and you are like “its so simple”
smookha hookaa oookah
I honestly disagree wit h the bind hookah one. I think its a lot more situational, because there are situations where my team is no where to be found, not playing site or playing passive retake angles like elbow and I'm stuck in Hookah. Thus I would prefer Hookah to be smoked so I don't get pinched by attacking players scaling site, not facing danger and then clearing me.
I also disagree with the B site one way on Abyss (the left side one) because it gets cleared by Sova dart anyways. The final Lotus smoke is really bad as enemies can just rat in the smoke and spam Fade haunt. I remember that one Abyss smoke video, where he did really weird site smokes, but I suppose that is in the setting of double controller and no recon/flash comp.
omgg the Rubble smoke on lotus i smoked their entry and an immo 2 told me to smoke the gap between rubble and entrance
On A site, the people on back site can just use the 1 way to their advantage no?
Which map?
@@LotharHS-VALORANT-Laboratory My apologies, on Abyss. No hate intended just genuinely curious. At least in my experience, those kinds of one ways thrown by the enemy backfired since I used it against them.
@@rword6118 yeah, that is the only point i didn't agree with. I think if you have enough util and your duelists are not scared to take backsite, you should smoke ct. This 1 way is only useful to plant the spike and play spam postplant.
wow this video made me glad Im a controller player. Some of these are so painful. like wtf is that rubble smoke lol that was the old default viper orb when you could pick it up. But like .. the attackers viper orb hahaha
Right? 😂
Shit....I didn't think of one waying that in A site abyss and I love of ways, lol. I usually just smoke the bridge there so they can't peak it.
I disagree with Haven A and C backsite smokes. You should box off the site on entry. On resmoke, it's better deeper. You allow enemies to peek in and out of the smoke if you smoke deep initially. The closer smoke makes them fully commit if they do decide to come onto site.
If any of the sides have any flashes the smoke you prefer will help the defenders to use the flashes and be instantly on site. And the smokes you want to use will make attacker flashes way less effective.
helpful video
the split one is the worst smoke in the game
What happened to other sites of some maps? Like you didn't go through Bind B completely. Then you didn't even do Bind A.
The video is already 27 minutes long. I cant go through every single thing that exist in the game or people will complain the video is too long.
@@LotharHS-VALORANT-Laboratory Fair. Hopefully this becomes a series though, maybe perhaps?? Or maybe a completed compendium. Either of, I and other controllers will certainly wait for them. Thanks Lothar!
Hi
Hello
first advice was so much worst no cap lets say entry duelist dashing in and he gets control of back site then duelist will struggle keeping that control because there is no smoke to help duelist as duelist i have struggled there whenever there is no smoke
You don’t need control of backsite in the first place, you can spam the spike from main and be fine
@astroalex126 Let’s say it really was a 4v4 or 5v5 retake. More control on space is generally better to stall time. If you let defenders take back site so easily, spam would be not ideal as you will be util dumped with flashes. Trust me I have tried this spam strategy in 5 stack dia-asc comp games and it really doesn’t favor the attackers. The only exception is taking heaven control instead of back site, which apparently my enemies love to push towards heaven and kill the remaining site players and completely ruin the chances of a proper retake.