@@FloydBunsen Best you could do is make the system think you've pulled on the door handle while still retracted, it won't actually unlock without either the owner's phone or key fob. But if you have that the door handle automatically extends anyway.
You might be able to open the door but the alarm and Toccata en Fugue will be blaring. Ask a passenger who has inadvertently triggered it while the key was with the driver.
When your door handle is actually a closed loop, digital computer controlled motor driven position actuation system with additional safety devices and sensors, it might just be overkill.
@@robokid20001 And don’t forget the analogue security access device. You know, that piece of metal with all the little bumps in it that you manage to lose every few weeks!
Mechanical Engineers when they encounter something electrical: "As a simple mechanical engineer I don't understand this stuff" Electrical Engineers when they encounter something mechanical: "Ah this is a mechanical problem, so as an electrical engineer, I am over qualified"
I was the guy in those meetings everyone hated. Me; does something really wonky with the new widget. Head Engineer; "None of our customers will ever do that!" Me; "I'm one of your customers and I just did." Head Engineer; "Shit! How do we fix this?" Snicker....
@@Myrune1 I launched a manual car uphill in second gear just to test one of my prototypes. My software/controls guy (who's work we were really testing) sitting next to me was speechless. Never doubt people's abilities to "think differently"
@@MickeyC3040 I have taken off from traffic lights in 3rd gear (admittedly slight down hill gradient in stop start traffic) I have also clutch started in reverse (just to see if I could) I also work in software testing, my colleagues refer to me as "the anomaly" or just "Not Normal"🤣
"we don't deal with invisible fields, if I can't see it then it must not be there" Got me cracking right up, I'm in the world of analog tech so I totally get this lmao
The DFMEA comment spoke right to my soul. At my university as ME students we took only one EE212 class. I'll never forget the wise words from my mechatronics professor regarding electronics: Don't let the smoke out!
That would be „don‘t let the magic smoke out“ and you know why engineers always fail when the try to make stuff dummy proof? They go against evolution at that point, evolution always manages to produce a bigger dummy, Nature wins.
I’m an EE and I’ve never heard of that type of sensor either… or the SENT communication protocol. Very informative video. And I must say, I don’t know too many ME’s who own an oscilloscope, also impressive haha.
i work in a lab, we have several oscilloscopes, boxed up, in a storage closet. Haven't been used in at least a decade... just can't bring ourselves to send them to the landfill
@@uliwehner someone will want them! Mine has a big orange sticker on it that says "Tested, BAD" and I love it. Sell or give them away on something quick and easy like FB marketplace and you will make some happy people and have an empty cupboard to put actual rubbish in 👍
@@uliwehner +1 to what richard allen said, young EEs or hobbyists starting out are always looking for scopes. I would've been happy getting an old clapped-out analogue scope when I started 10 years ago, but they were too expensive because companies that replace them send them to the landfill, unlike what they do with old laptops that get refurbished and sold to poor university students...
Seeing how precise and patient the "delicate touch of a mechanical engineer" can be made laugh out loud. Well done. Thank you for the laughs and thorough look at Tesla's new design.
Great video Matt. I still think the motorized door handle is asking for expensive problems down the road and is a solution for something that was never a problem. However if they are going to do it anyway, at least Tesla made an elegant, simple design.
The only possible advantage I could see is rind resistance, but honestly I'd rather just have physical handles. Especially on the inside. Gimme back my buttons too. Oh and the sdcard slot+headphone jack+replaceable battery on my phone while we're at ut
@@alexkram It's still a bad design. With a good mechanical door handle, a sheet of ice on the handle does nothing, you pull the handle, the ice breaks off, you open the door. With a handle that's flush, you go get the heat gun....
For an ME you have an incredible amount of knowledge about electronics. I'm an EE and what you just said blew me away. As always I really enjoy your videos. 👍👍👍
EEs get stuck at their desk too much, they let MEs out to play more. That gives them a lot more general knowledge, just don’t as us to pointed of questions. You’ll find the knowledge only goes so deep, that is the benefit of spending more time on a specific area.
Also in my experience, Mechanical Engineers just love breaking stuff to see how it works. I did a stint in software QA at a game company also, and strangely the programmers didn't share my excitement at finding new ways to make stuff fail 🤔 Those meetings sound like soul crushing ways of killing creatively destructive dreams.
@@richardallen1629 Yes we do! I want to know what it is, what it does and if I can break it! If I can break it then I want to know if I can make it better. Keeps us MEs employed and entertained. A close second for entertainment is the look of panic an EE gets if I joke I tested for voltage by licking something
9:06 You could measure motor current, and use that to detect when you are stalling out due to hitting a hard stop. Same way automatic roll down windows work.
Thanks for this! Was wondering how it worked for a while, great to see. :) And totally agree with the physical buttons and switches, helps me to find the problem way faster. ;)
RUBBISH! You obviously are unaware of all the faulty signals that come from a microswitch! When subjected to even moderate vibration, even a hard closed microswitch can open & close its contacts several hundred times a second! It's NOT just "switch" bounce (when the switch state is changed) but "contact" bounce when it is "supposed" to be in a KNOWN state but isn't! DOH!
@@MadScientist267 don't be absurd, of course I have, but there are circumstances where they have to be too large in value to do the job effectively. Capacitive touch or proximity switches - fine, but mechanical ones? No!
I'm not an engineer, but seeing that we share the same patience and with the same delicate touch I'm wondering if I've been an engineer this whole time without knowing! Loved this video, very informative and highly entertaining!
@@stevejohnson1685 post the link. I dare you. Also what? I looked it up and found some angular position sensors. Why would that be suspect? I know FLIR is export controlled and the government cares if you want too many FPS because it could be used for night vision goggles and projectile guidance but why would an angular position sensor be of interest?
I guess that end position is measured by current going to motor, similar to obstruction detection in power windows. Btw, Skoda had flush handles in 1950s - all mechanical. But they were phased out because of safety concerns
The Tesla door handle is in diametric opposition to Musk's "the best part is no part". The flush mechanical door handles on my truck have worked flawlessly for decades.
My thoughts as well. While they are a nifty bit of engineering, they still seem overcomplicated (I'm an electrical engineer, but even so I still go with simpler is better.) The mechanical handles on my 60 year old car still work just fine. I've also wondered how well Tesla door handles deal with ice and subzero temperatures.
That’s a great philosophy when designing a rocket, not so great on a 80k luxury car. The useless but cool gadgets and random features is what makes cars in that price range sell. At least the parts count and reliability of the useless gadget seem headed in the right direction.
A freezing cold morning here in Melbourne Australia, perfect day for sitting in front of my heater watching Super Fast Matt videos on RUclips. Thank you.
6:32 They design encapsulated non-accessible electronic gizmos with printing so small an electron microscope is necessary in order to read the part number solution. Awesome!
Most likely the current for the motor in monitored, so if for some reason the current spykes and the solid state sensor detects the handle isn't fully retracted it must be chopping fingers and it deploys. I installed DBW throttle bodies on my carbed bike and used a Hall sensor TPS, it's impressive the precision they have.
This. There is no direct logic style feedback per say, but you can monitor load as wicked said. You could probably test it by trying to stop it popping out. If it gives up fairly quickly and retracts, it's monitoring load.
Measuring for stall torque and simultaneously making sure that motor commands correspond to actual handle deflection based on the magnet angle sensor seems probably sufficient to me, agreed.
great review of the new door handle design.... as an automotive engineer, I always thought that original door handle was a great example of how NOT to design a part. Never understood why engineers put those microswitches on the parts that Moved!!!.. since that makes the wires & connections bend/move, ultimately breaking.
First time I've seen that original door handle. My god that is astonishingly awful. Given how complex the rest of the car is and the level of autonomy, if that design philosphy and lack of riguor was present in just 1% of the components that is a frightening prospect.
I've had to do FMEA work groups as a mechanic, so don't worry, engineers aren't the only ones that get that burden. Generally it involves an intro topic of 'well, last week one of our equipment operators did something that wasn't covered previously, lets figure out why and how'
I'm a mechanic. Here's the problem with iterative design. Without proper version control, and excellent record keeping, you could be looking for a 2017 Model S door handle, only to realise that you need the 2017 v2.13 handle. It's nice to see they've made a concerted attempt at being backwards compatible, though.
Doesn't have be like that - those two units could very well be interchangeable without SENT. I imagine it just gives them huge saving and standardization cannot prevent progress. On the other hand have you ever looked for a replacement part for you car? I have to measure everything and compare part to pictures every time. Manufactures don't care about some schmuck who will try to get replacement parts in 10 years and will use whatever non-interchangeable parts they have on their hands so the production line doesn't stop.
One assumes this is the number one, or maybe number two, reason Tesla famously doesn't let ANYONE work on their cars. The only way to get the right part is to look up the original build sheet by VIN, and even that will probably miss the epoxy blob or painters tape loom retainer, or 3D printed mount.
@@Kammaol I guess you’ve never worked on a Mercedes Benz, they still produce anything with a part number in small batches, if the parts not available you just wait and sooner or later it’s made.
@@deeeezel I have a 27 year old Benz. While it's true that some parts have come back into production, in my experience this is rate. There are many NLA parts and more all the time. At first it was mostly aesthetic parts, but I was recently told that the adjustment shims for my diesel injectors are NLA. It's a big worry if they've stopping making critical service parts like that.
They'd put a load measure on the motor power circuit to determine if it is drawing more power than normal and cut the power if it goes past a predetermined limit.
Stuff like this is super interesting to come by while working with cars. Although I often find it difficult to share in an interesting fashion like you did here. Props!
My father was a mechanical engineer. He designed automation for the big 3 for 30 years, so this kind of stuff is bang up my ally. Much love from Detroit area, Michigan..
I'm so glad I saw this, I have a 2021 MS on order and the door handles were one thing I wasn't crazy about after seeing so many people complaining about them breaking. Good to know that they've been fixed.
Well... about that... My 2017 Model S has these Gen3 handles... the paddle gear is apparently still cheap crap and it broke, so no more present. At least the door did pop open when I pushed on the handle, so that was nice. Thanks to Electrified Garage I was able to buy the part on eBay and fix it myself (warranty expired 3 months ago of course). Still enjoy the car, though.
I'd bet that this thing also detects motor stall based on current draw. I'm sure it won't self destruct itself if the hal sensor positions don't match up with he push lever thing
You can measure something-something electrical from the power lines when the motor is stuck. So the motor is the sensor and signal wires are the power wires.
If they needed door handles that produce minimal drag, I would have taken design cues from AMC with a recessed handle instead a complicated mechanism, but that's me. The tesla handle does have the "Wow factor" though.
Yeah why not a regular handle lol. I'd like the fancy handle if was an actual hand that could hold things for me. We could have a secret handshake be the keyless entry
I Love your channel. The only thing that beats your technical acumen is your sense of humour (spelt the way it was first intended!). Keep up with the good work (and the sarcasm).
" I always come out of it with a greater understanding of the human condition." This is the most polite way of saying "A vast, almost incomprehensible portion of the population are so stupid it is physically painful to contemplate that stupidity for anyone with an intelligence greater than the average kumquat" that I have ever read.
I’m still disturbed by the lack of (always open) external handles. If a Tesla crashes, and power is lost, bystanders will not be able to quickly pull the doors open.
One of the best videos I have ever seen about anything. I love your sense of humour (I am in Canada so I spell humour the right way). I am keeping track of your Jag. great series
I absolutely love this channel's mix of "car repair show" + "professional youtuber" + "sarcastic comedy" It's a combination I didn't know I needed, but absolutely do.
Fun fact, my 15 year CD drive can detect if it is half open (it closes automatically if so), closed or open and it uses touch sensing like pushing what a bunch of nubies. It's motorised and if it is not able to close fully it will open very fast and tries to close again.
Something similar to the "SENT" system has been present in model railways for years. It's called DCC, which uses AC rather than DC to send signals to locomotives, points and other devices. Each DCC chip is assigned a programmable code, and when you use a DCC bus to send signals, it sends a signal that only the chip that it is trying to send signals to can read. This means you can have several devices reading complicated instructions on the same two wires. It's mostly used to run multiple trains on the same, unisolated track layout, with independent control.
"early Model S was just a kit car" ......man, you shoulda worked on Roadster! That actually WAS a kit car! 😂 And your thoughts on FMEA's is sooooooo true.
Hey Matt, on the idea that it wouldn't know if it was stowed or deployed, or if there was something in the way of it stowing, a lot of these DC motors nowadays are controlled via H bridges with a shunt built in so I'm sure Tesla is monitoring motor current in the little control module to detect when the handle is seeing more resistance than a free-moving handle would.
Hall effect sensor. Think of it as one of the many ways semiconductors can be made. In this case, we have power, ground, and signal out. The signal changes depending on the presence or absence of the magnet being nearby. No moving parts, and generally quite reliable.
I worked at NUMI in Fremont in 2012 as a college summer temp job as a material research board technician. Basically I received, inventoried and routed parts to engineers for failure analysis. I went though probably 12 pallet sized boxes of door handles in 3 months or so. Door handles always seemed to be an issue.
Nice design and great video. A motor can reset its position awareness by occasionally ramming itself against the bump stop, then it calls that offset its zero position.
If i'm making that I sense when the opener arm is at the end of its travel by the current used by the motor. It can *try* to close against the end of the linear gear, but it will be immediately obvious it is already closed. The part just has to be strong enough to live up to that momentary stall load.
a flush mounted handle is easy to accomplish without ANY electronics, just simple linkages. But I guess that would go against the tesla design philosophy
Now i'm curious to how my door handle works on my 2021 caddy lol. It senses when i want to open them and unlocks the car. But can also lock the door when i touch the indent even without and conductive/capacitive objects.
Something I hope is brought up in DFMEA meetings is the effects of cold and ice. I've had Toyotas that won't fully latch the hatch in winter because the interior heat melts the snow around the door, it falls to the bottom and refreezes. I end up going outside several times per winter with a hair dryer. I imagine the Tesla door handle might break as described if ice jams it open. Also, I had an iPhone5 that would give a temperature lockout telling me to allow the phone to cool off before I could use it whenever I would go ice fishing at -30°C. I figured out the problem when I turned the phone over: "Designed in California." It's not always stupid users but designers who can't imagine use cases outside of their own experience.
I guess the downside of the new design are the magnets, which can be demagnetized and also require rare earth elements. Also the SENT protocol needs to measure the duration of the 5V, so if the timings of the quartz crystals drift apart over time, then it can also cause issues.
Those are tiny (coffee machine, laptop, etc, all use these), nothing comparable to the kgs needed on the motor rotors. The way to demagnetize these is by subjecting them to 100+ºC temperatures. If your door handle sees that, the door card, paint, etc, are toast. SENT has a calibration pulse, making all output relative to it, so it works with large deviations of sender-receiver timebases.
Crystal drift, or any other clock frequency changes are not an issue, the SENT protocol has a synchronization pulse at the start of every packet (32bits = packet).
OOOOH interesting. I would assume no due to connection differences. Changing from the old analog type sensors to the new digitial would mean a very different computing scene up the line. but thats just this dumb MEs thoughts.
@@dfabeagle718 maybe the old cars would work with swapping the module that receives the SENT signals? Or that would cause a cascade of other parts that would also need to be replaced to "simply" retrofit the newer door handle modules to an older Model S.
Could be done if someone developed a converter module that interfaces between the new SENT door handle and the old wiring harness. The signals from the new handle get converted to signals which the old body control computer expects to see. An aftermarket supplier opportunity?
I've been wanting to implant handles like these for a long time, from when they first came out on the aston martins, but buying it separately was always a deterrent and DIY is a compromise of safety and the problems highlighted here
“There will always be a few that manage to be more idiotic than 6 engineers ever thought possible”. So. Much. This. For every design change we make to “idiot proof” our equipment, the world produces a bigger idiot. I saw a guy wrap Teflon tape on the OUTSIDE of a hose fitting and then complain we designed a leaky fluid system…
My father was an chief engineer on a fishing boat you think idiots are bad he had to deal with fishermen they could break stuff that you or i couldn't if we tried
Tesla: King of taking something that's reliable, works well, and has been around for half a century, and overcomplicating the crap out of it and making it as reliable as dancing around a fire to make it rain.
„But it‘s cool“ Say the fanboy. Talking to the man with the hammer: „Arduino can’t measure it, because it’s in microseconds“ No, you can’t measure it, because you just can’t. Other’s do. They make it use USB, which is way faster in software.
They are already here. It´s just that they haven´t got their hands on a Tesla yet. And when they do, their first mistake is taking the car to a gas station to refuel.
If they monitor the current draw on the motor at the drive circuitry, they can know when it reaches the limit. Remember how you used to be able to knudge your cdrom tray to get it to retract? Same idea.
As interesting as all this is, i can't help but feel that it's unacceptable for the handle to have no mechanical linkage, especially considering some of the other unique and interesting ways some Teslas handle electrical failure.
If a Tesla has gotten to the point where none of the door handles work then busting out a window is peanuts compared to how much it’s going to cost to get the car fixed.
As an electrical engineer, after seeing what you said on this video, if I saw you in front of me... We would probably hang around. Love the video and sense of humor ❤️
"This is the lockpickinglawyer, and today we're going to open this Tesla Model S using only a magnet on the end of a drill."
"This is the lockpickinglawyer, and today we're going to open this Tesla Model S using only a magnet on the end of a ballpeen hammer."
I have no knowledge of the locking system on Teslas. Could this work?
@@FloydBunsen Best you could do is make the system think you've pulled on the door handle while still retracted, it won't actually unlock without either the owner's phone or key fob. But if you have that the door handle automatically extends anyway.
You might be able to open the door but the alarm and Toccata en Fugue will be blaring. Ask a passenger who has inadvertently triggered it while the key was with the driver.
"this is the lock picking lawyer, and today we're going to open this Tesla Model S using the magnet Bosnian Bill and I made."
About the DFMEA meetings, AvE once said wisely:
"you make something foolproof, then the world comes and invents a bigger fool"
Alternative phrase though by my mentor: "You can make things idiot proof, there is always a bigger idiot".
Two thing are infinite the universe and human stupidity and I am not sure about the universe-einstein
Bumblefucks all around us
that quote represents the human race
NOT the World America 🇺🇸 the Land of Morons
Matt’s Tinder Profile: the delicate touch of a mechanical engineer 😘
*ex-Tesla mechanical engineer -- gotta get the right swipes and not left swipes
"Careful hands, and patience."
With a current fork lift license
@@robertheger9048
and "dangerous goods" endorsement....
He needs BigClive's *Vice of Knowledge* to go with his delicate touch.
When your door handle is actually a closed loop, digital computer controlled motor driven position actuation system with additional safety devices and sensors, it might just be overkill.
I know how to make it even better: a lever that actuates a mechanical linkage that directly opens the door.
Oh wait.
@@robokid20001 And don’t forget the analogue security access device. You know, that piece of metal with all the little bumps in it that you manage to lose every few weeks!
It means that all the breakable parts are outside of the door itself, and probably easier to reach and replace.
@@robokid20001 Step aside, young padawan: just use a cable hidden behind a speaker cover. You're welcome.
@@robokid20001Mechanical door handles NEVER have ANY problems. In ICE FANTASY land.
Mechanical Engineers when they encounter something electrical: "As a simple mechanical engineer I don't understand this stuff"
Electrical Engineers when they encounter something mechanical: "Ah this is a mechanical problem, so as an electrical engineer, I am over qualified"
Then chemistry comes
Me, a software engineer: "I bet I can figure this out" and then I break something.
And yet, some of the worst mechanical drawings I've ever seen are in electrical datasheets...
This explains how I often run across electrical car conversions with horrible mechanical design.
Watching this during my lunch break having just come from a multi hour DFMEA meeting. He speaks the truth
This is the way!
I was the guy in those meetings everyone hated.
Me; does something really wonky with the new widget.
Head Engineer; "None of our customers will ever do that!"
Me; "I'm one of your customers and I just did."
Head Engineer; "Shit! How do we fix this?"
Snicker....
@@Myrune1 I launched a manual car uphill in second gear just to test one of my prototypes. My software/controls guy (who's work we were really testing) sitting next to me was speechless. Never doubt people's abilities to "think differently"
I have a mate who loves to make the manufacturer engineers head explode.. lol 🤣
@@MickeyC3040 I have taken off from traffic lights in 3rd gear (admittedly slight down hill gradient in stop start traffic) I have also clutch started in reverse (just to see if I could) I also work in software testing, my colleagues refer to me as "the anomaly" or just "Not Normal"🤣
Matt: "I don't know electrons, they scare me"
Also matt: "so, here's the wiring diagram for my electric car build"
also matt: worked for tesla
Also Matt: I looked at the signal on my oscilloscope
Also Matt: so I hooked it up and wrote a Raspberry debugger.
And he have an Oscilloscope with better screen resolution than my phone
To be fair, Matt said he's scared of things he can't see (stupid electron goblins). He can see wiring diagrams and code and electric cars...
Fantastic video, this is why I’m on RUclips all day!
I miss your content. It was and is excellent. In hope all is well.
Go touch grass bro
Yes I spend too much time on a chair doing same and my back is making me may big time.
oops I Meant PAY.
The algorithm is meant to be a drug. :3
The entertainment and educational value of this video is through the roof. This was my first visit to this channel, and it wont be the last, thanks!
"we don't deal with invisible fields, if I can't see it then it must not be there"
Got me cracking right up, I'm in the world of analog tech so I totally get this lmao
Well magnetic sensors are analog so...
(Remember the aux to cassette tape converter? Pure few cents analog trickery 👌)
The DFMEA comment spoke right to my soul. At my university as ME students we took only one EE212 class. I'll never forget the wise words from my mechatronics professor regarding electronics: Don't let the smoke out!
That would be „don‘t let the magic smoke out“ and you know why engineers always fail when the try to make stuff dummy proof? They go against evolution at that point, evolution always manages to produce a bigger dummy, Nature wins.
Where someone who will only freekout will see it and freekout, as in call the Fire Department.
Me too, I've been in those meetings at Tesla... I feel his pain.
I was thinking...trunk monkey....
I don't understand.. don't let components catch fire or don't let people know something burnt out?
Says he’s a simple mechanical engineer, then pulls out the oscilloscope! Great video Matt.
And connects up and programs both a Arduino and Raspberry pi computer systems
my curiousity and interest peaked at this part!
Oscilloscopes are used in the general first year of engineering.
@@questioner1596 So wish I could have gone to Uni, I had to learn to use my Oscilloscope myself
I’m an EE and I’ve never heard of that type of sensor either… or the SENT communication protocol. Very informative video. And I must say, I don’t know too many ME’s who own an oscilloscope, also impressive haha.
i work in a lab, we have several oscilloscopes, boxed up, in a storage closet. Haven't been used in at least a decade... just can't bring ourselves to send them to the landfill
@@uliwehner someone will want them! Mine has a big orange sticker on it that says "Tested, BAD" and I love it. Sell or give them away on something quick and easy like FB marketplace and you will make some happy people and have an empty cupboard to put actual rubbish in 👍
I'm an ME who ordered the exact same scope just before watching this video!
Your profile picture is telling me you're working at Dewlett Packard
@@uliwehner +1 to what richard allen said, young EEs or hobbyists starting out are always looking for scopes. I would've been happy getting an old clapped-out analogue scope when I started 10 years ago, but they were too expensive because companies that replace them send them to the landfill, unlike what they do with old laptops that get refurbished and sold to poor university students...
Seeing how precise and patient the "delicate touch of a mechanical engineer" can be made laugh out loud. Well done. Thank you for the laughs and thorough look at Tesla's new design.
Great video Matt. I still think the motorized door handle is asking for expensive problems down the road and is a solution for something that was never a problem. However if they are going to do it anyway, at least Tesla made an elegant, simple design.
we love throwing junk in landfills.
The only possible advantage I could see is rind resistance, but honestly I'd rather just have physical handles. Especially on the inside. Gimme back my buttons too.
Oh and the sdcard slot+headphone jack+replaceable battery on my phone while we're at ut
@@subjekt5577 the model 3 door handle design is pretty aerodynamic and no motors.
@@alexkram It's still a bad design. With a good mechanical door handle, a sheet of ice on the handle does nothing, you pull the handle, the ice breaks off, you open the door. With a handle that's flush, you go get the heat gun....
For an ME you have an incredible amount of knowledge about electronics. I'm an EE and what you just said blew me away. As always I really enjoy your videos. 👍👍👍
Wow, thanks!
I'm an IDE and I like glue
EEs get stuck at their desk too much, they let MEs out to play more. That gives them a lot more general knowledge, just don’t as us to pointed of questions. You’ll find the knowledge only goes so deep, that is the benefit of spending more time on a specific area.
Also in my experience, Mechanical Engineers just love breaking stuff to see how it works. I did a stint in software QA at a game company also, and strangely the programmers didn't share my excitement at finding new ways to make stuff fail 🤔 Those meetings sound like soul crushing ways of killing creatively destructive dreams.
@@richardallen1629 Yes we do! I want to know what it is, what it does and if I can break it! If I can break it then I want to know if I can make it better. Keeps us MEs employed and entertained. A close second for entertainment is the look of panic an EE gets if I joke I tested for voltage by licking something
9:06 You could measure motor current, and use that to detect when you are stalling out due to hitting a hard stop. Same way automatic roll down windows work.
but current is invisible, therefore do not exist, so he can't. ;)
@@mechadrake oooh yeah fair point.
@@mechadrake If you think current is invisible, jab a metal rod into a live breaker panel and see it :)
@@jamescole6846 he said it is. Did he stutter? ;)
No far easier you try movinh the motor a little and look if the handle moves if not you stop
Thanks for this! Was wondering how it worked for a while, great to see. :) And totally agree with the physical buttons and switches, helps me to find the problem way faster. ;)
I was wondering too, pretty interesting handle!
The problem is there are a whole bunch of useless parts.
A lever and a rod... Works great! 🙄
RUBBISH! You obviously are unaware of all the faulty signals that come from a microswitch! When subjected to even moderate vibration, even a hard closed microswitch can open & close its contacts several hundred times a second! It's NOT just "switch" bounce (when the switch state is changed) but "contact" bounce when it is "supposed" to be in a KNOWN state but isn't! DOH!
@@boblewis5558 Ever heard of debouncing caps? Siddown lol
@@MadScientist267 don't be absurd, of course I have, but there are circumstances where they have to be too large in value to do the job effectively. Capacitive touch or proximity switches - fine, but mechanical ones? No!
No sponsors are mentioned in the video. Man, you are awesome.
I'm not an engineer, but seeing that we share the same patience and with the same delicate touch I'm wondering if I've been an engineer this whole time without knowing!
Loved this video, very informative and highly entertaining!
Alright that's actually really freaking clever. Saving this sensor in my mental toolbox. Thanks!
Agreed, I love seeing novel examples of great ideas. How to effectively use 1 sensor do replace the need for 4 others is really interesting to see.
There's that other sensor, a quadrature infrared sensor, that if you look up the datasheet, gets you a visit from your local FBI office :-)
@@stevejohnson1685 post the link. I dare you.
Also what? I looked it up and found some angular position sensors. Why would that be suspect? I know FLIR is export controlled and the government cares if you want too many FPS because it could be used for night vision goggles and projectile guidance but why would an angular position sensor be of interest?
@John Brennan don't cry
@John Brennan and lithium but no one made a safe, cool and viable high mileage car until Tesla made it
This is my contribution to the prevention of DFMEA meetings and my vote to keep you producing the excellent quality content you have given us so far.
Me too. I've been in these meetings and never want to go back. I've subscribed to keep him out of them for longer :)
The careful like a "surgeon" disassembly was perfect, keep the the videos coming. Asome engineering
I worked on that sensor that you smashed. Makes me wish I had done the same.
I guess that end position is measured by current going to motor, similar to obstruction detection in power windows.
Btw, Skoda had flush handles in 1950s - all mechanical. But they were phased out because of safety concerns
"If I can't see them, they must not be there"
Story of my life as a young ME
That was the most convincing reason to subscribe I have ever heard.
I already watch and like the videos, subscribed now.
The Tesla door handle is in diametric opposition to Musk's "the best part is no part". The flush mechanical door handles on my truck have worked flawlessly for decades.
My thoughts as well. While they are a nifty bit of engineering, they still seem overcomplicated (I'm an electrical engineer, but even so I still go with simpler is better.) The mechanical handles on my 60 year old car still work just fine. I've also wondered how well Tesla door handles deal with ice and subzero temperatures.
That’s a great philosophy when designing a rocket, not so great on a 80k luxury car. The useless but cool gadgets and random features is what makes cars in that price range sell. At least the parts count and reliability of the useless gadget seem headed in the right direction.
@@Notdave29 "Useless" is on the nose.
There’s nothing like having your car greet you every time you walk up to it. It’s only annoying when you walk past it and you’re not getting in.
@@allterrainrandy2587 I am filing that under "unnecessary".
A freezing cold morning here in Melbourne Australia, perfect day for sitting in front of my heater watching Super Fast Matt videos on RUclips. Thank you.
6:32 They design encapsulated non-accessible electronic gizmos with printing so small an electron microscope is necessary in order to read the part number solution. Awesome!
That’s an amazing transformation. I like how they kept the mechanical spring loaded concept intact but optimised the hell out of the electronics.
Most likely the current for the motor in monitored, so if for some reason the current spykes and the solid state sensor detects the handle isn't fully retracted it must be chopping fingers and it deploys.
I installed DBW throttle bodies on my carbed bike and used a Hall sensor TPS, it's impressive the precision they have.
Do you have your bike project online? Would really like to see it.
This.
There is no direct logic style feedback per say, but you can monitor load as wicked said. You could probably test it by trying to stop it popping out. If it gives up fairly quickly and retracts, it's monitoring load.
Measuring for stall torque and simultaneously making sure that motor commands correspond to actual handle deflection based on the magnet angle sensor seems probably sufficient to me, agreed.
Agree. Controlling electric motor torque is probably something someone at Tesla knows how to do, even EE interns.
great review of the new door handle design.... as an automotive engineer, I always thought that original door handle was a great example of how NOT to design a part. Never understood why engineers put those microswitches on the parts that Moved!!!.. since that makes the wires & connections bend/move, ultimately breaking.
No kidding, the old design is just plain awful - a perfect example of under-engineering. Zero consideration of the use case went into that design.
@@kain0m Tesla grew quickly, with few experience automotive engineers. Now they have some more experience.
First time I've seen that original door handle. My god that is astonishingly awful. Given how complex the rest of the car is and the level of autonomy, if that design philosphy and lack of riguor was present in just 1% of the components that is a frightening prospect.
The DFMEA meetings sound so interesting lol. I’d like to come up with all the ways it could be broken lol
I've had to do FMEA work groups as a mechanic, so don't worry, engineers aren't the only ones that get that burden. Generally it involves an intro topic of 'well, last week one of our equipment operators did something that wasn't covered previously, lets figure out why and how'
I'm a mechanic. Here's the problem with iterative design. Without proper version control, and excellent record keeping, you could be looking for a 2017 Model S door handle, only to realise that you need the 2017 v2.13 handle. It's nice to see they've made a concerted attempt at being backwards compatible, though.
Doesn't have be like that - those two units could very well be interchangeable without SENT. I imagine it just gives them huge saving and standardization cannot prevent progress.
On the other hand have you ever looked for a replacement part for you car? I have to measure everything and compare part to pictures every time. Manufactures don't care about some schmuck who will try to get replacement parts in 10 years and will use whatever non-interchangeable parts they have on their hands so the production line doesn't stop.
One assumes this is the number one, or maybe number two, reason Tesla famously doesn't let ANYONE work on their cars. The only way to get the right part is to look up the original build sheet by VIN, and even that will probably miss the epoxy blob or painters tape loom retainer, or 3D printed mount.
@@Kammaol I guess you’ve never worked on a Mercedes Benz, they still produce anything with a part number in small batches, if the parts not available you just wait and sooner or later it’s made.
@@deeeezel I have a 27 year old Benz. While it's true that some parts have come back into production, in my experience this is rate. There are many NLA parts and more all the time. At first it was mostly aesthetic parts, but I was recently told that the adjustment shims for my diesel injectors are NLA. It's a big worry if they've stopping making critical service parts like that.
They'd put a load measure on the motor power circuit to determine if it is drawing more power than normal and cut the power if it goes past a predetermined limit.
Excellent stuff as ever Matt - engineering with a hammer made me snort my coffee. All hail the algorithm...
It made me sort my coke.
Not the reaction I was expecting.
Diet coke in my case. Truly. 🤣
Yep. Been there. Popcorn here.
Stuff like this is super interesting to come by while working with cars.
Although I often find it difficult to share in an interesting fashion like you did here. Props!
My father was a mechanical engineer. He designed automation for the big 3 for 30 years, so this kind of stuff is bang up my ally. Much love from Detroit area, Michigan..
I'm so glad I saw this, I have a 2021 MS on order and the door handles were one thing I wasn't crazy about after seeing so many people complaining about them breaking. Good to know that they've been fixed.
Well... about that... My 2017 Model S has these Gen3 handles... the paddle gear is apparently still cheap crap and it broke, so no more present. At least the door did pop open when I pushed on the handle, so that was nice. Thanks to Electrified Garage I was able to buy the part on eBay and fix it myself (warranty expired 3 months ago of course). Still enjoy the car, though.
They're still totally crap.
You can redesign anything you want, but if you build it like crap, it will break.
"I have careful hands, and I have patience"
I'm having a good time
I'd bet that this thing also detects motor stall based on current draw. I'm sure it won't self destruct itself if the hal sensor positions don't match up with he push lever thing
If it say motor current and no change in position I've probably just stop or run the motor backwards for a set time
You can measure something-something electrical from the power lines when the motor is stuck. So the motor is the sensor and signal wires are the power wires.
“I don’t deal with invisible fields” is a very strong statement from somebody who studies stress and strain tensors.
That delicate 3lb sledge got me dying over here!
Gently.....Gently ........I avoided a violent death ! Lol !
"The delicate touch of a mechanical engineer", 🤣🤣🤣.
Good that the Jaguar does not need DFMEA meetings!
DFMEA = Drive until it Fails then Matt Engineers an Alternative design
@@SuperfastMatt 🤣
You don't need to bother with it when you have millions of fanatic betatesters :-D
Based on their reliability that's probably true of factory jaguars too.
props SuperfastMatt, Respect buddy. I rarely subscribe but did so just for you!
If they needed door handles that produce minimal drag, I would have taken design cues from AMC with a recessed handle instead a complicated mechanism, but that's me. The tesla handle does have the "Wow factor" though.
Yeah why not a regular handle lol. I'd like the fancy handle if was an actual hand that could hold things for me. We could have a secret handshake be the keyless entry
This is quickly becoming my favorite channel on all of RUclips. I learn something with every video. Multiple things in fact.
I Love your channel. The only thing that beats your technical acumen is your sense of humour (spelt the way it was first intended!). Keep up with the good work (and the sarcasm).
LOL DFMEA meetings are the best though. I always come out of it with a greater understanding of the human condition.
"-Ok jeff why do you stopped comunicating with people outside your job?
-EVERYONE. IS. RETARDED."
" I always come out of it with a greater understanding of the human condition."
This is the most polite way of saying "A vast, almost incomprehensible portion of the population are so stupid it is physically painful to contemplate that stupidity for anyone with an intelligence greater than the average kumquat" that I have ever read.
Great video! Found you from a comment on Munro Live's Gigacasting Evolution video. Thanks!
It's so rare for me to know within 35 seconds of watching a video that I know without a shadow of a doubt I should subscribe. Good job!
That was a cool video. I love finding solutions to problems - and the update is WAY more elegant.
I’m still disturbed by the lack of (always open) external handles. If a Tesla crashes, and power is lost, bystanders will not be able to quickly pull the doors open.
One of the best videos I have ever seen about anything. I love your sense of humour (I am in Canada so I spell humour the right way). I am keeping track of your Jag. great series
I absolutely love this channel's mix of "car repair show" + "professional youtuber" + "sarcastic comedy" It's a combination I didn't know I needed, but absolutely do.
Fun fact, my 15 year CD drive can detect if it is half open (it closes automatically if so), closed or open and it uses touch sensing like pushing what a bunch of nubies. It's motorised and if it is not able to close fully it will open very fast and tries to close again.
Something similar to the "SENT" system has been present in model railways for years. It's called DCC, which uses AC rather than DC to send signals to locomotives, points and other devices. Each DCC chip is assigned a programmable code, and when you use a DCC bus to send signals, it sends a signal that only the chip that it is trying to send signals to can read. This means you can have several devices reading complicated instructions on the same two wires. It's mostly used to run multiple trains on the same, unisolated track layout, with independent control.
"early Model S was just a kit car" ......man, you shoulda worked on Roadster! That actually WAS a kit car! 😂
And your thoughts on FMEA's is sooooooo true.
Oh you are so close to 100K!!!! Congratulations!
uh... we surpassed that with speed... 113k
@@Bashfulvideos1 120k
@@hams3r_dont_upload_anythin182 123k
@@Bashfulvideos1 140k
Hey Matt, on the idea that it wouldn't know if it was stowed or deployed, or if there was something in the way of it stowing, a lot of these DC motors nowadays are controlled via H bridges with a shunt built in so I'm sure Tesla is monitoring motor current in the little control module to detect when the handle is seeing more resistance than a free-moving handle would.
and ice exists on this planet, handles freeze again :D
Hall effect sensor. Think of it as one of the many ways semiconductors can be made. In this case, we have power, ground, and signal out. The signal changes depending on the presence or absence of the magnet being nearby. No moving parts, and generally quite reliable.
I worked at NUMI in Fremont in 2012 as a college summer temp job as a material research board technician. Basically I received, inventoried and routed parts to engineers for failure analysis. I went though probably 12 pallet sized boxes of door handles in 3 months or so. Door handles always seemed to be an issue.
Nice design and great video. A motor can reset its position awareness by occasionally ramming itself against the bump stop, then it calls that offset its zero position.
I love the "delicate touch of a mechanical engineer" lmao
You look like older PolarSaurusRex
If i'm making that I sense when the opener arm is at the end of its travel by the current used by the motor. It can *try* to close against the end of the linear gear, but it will be immediately obvious it is already closed. The part just has to be strong enough to live up to that momentary stall load.
Not letting you go to anymore of those meetings, you have earned a sub ;)
Dont people die in these cars because there isnt a mechanical handle so people just burn or drown?
a flush mounted handle is easy to accomplish without ANY electronics, just simple linkages. But I guess that would go against the tesla design philosophy
the handle design is so good i'm wondering if they could make an entire car like that
The whole idea is kind of stupid. There's nothing wrong with regular door handles.
Now i'm curious to how my door handle works on my 2021 caddy lol. It senses when i want to open them and unlocks the car. But can also lock the door when i touch the indent even without and conductive/capacitive objects.
Dude, 10 minutes went like new tesla roadster from 0 to 60mph, awesome stuff, me liked and subbed...
Something I hope is brought up in DFMEA meetings is the effects of cold and ice. I've had Toyotas that won't fully latch the hatch in winter because the interior heat melts the snow around the door, it falls to the bottom and refreezes. I end up going outside several times per winter with a hair dryer. I imagine the Tesla door handle might break as described if ice jams it open.
Also, I had an iPhone5 that would give a temperature lockout telling me to allow the phone to cool off before I could use it whenever I would go ice fishing at -30°C. I figured out the problem when I turned the phone over: "Designed in California." It's not always stupid users but designers who can't imagine use cases outside of their own experience.
I guess the downside of the new design are the magnets, which can be demagnetized and also require rare earth elements. Also the SENT protocol needs to measure the duration of the 5V, so if the timings of the quartz crystals drift apart over time, then it can also cause issues.
Those are tiny (coffee machine, laptop, etc, all use these), nothing comparable to the kgs needed on the motor rotors. The way to demagnetize these is by subjecting them to 100+ºC temperatures. If your door handle sees that, the door card, paint, etc, are toast. SENT has a calibration pulse, making all output relative to it, so it works with large deviations of sender-receiver timebases.
@@jpinto3912 I knew that....honest!
@@jpinto3912 darn clever protocol!
And couldn’t have come on a better time! I was thinking about using CANbus doe my Hudson. Not anymore!
@@jpinto3912 Heat can cause it, but also impacts, like during a car crash.
Crystal drift, or any other clock frequency changes are not an issue, the SENT protocol has a synchronization pulse at the start of every packet (32bits = packet).
I love this guy. Absolute best engineering humor. F*
I've watched many a Superfast Matt video. This is the one where i set my slider back to 6 min 27 seconds ON REPEAT!
How am I only now finding this channel? Awesome work dude!
All Hail the algorithm!
One question remains: are the new door handles interchangeable with an old one that's prone to failure?
OOOOH interesting. I would assume no due to connection differences. Changing from the old analog type sensors to the new digitial would mean a very different computing scene up the line.
but thats just this dumb MEs thoughts.
@@derekwallin2624 sounds legit - the body control module has to be able to read the SENT signal.
@@dfabeagle718 maybe the old cars would work with swapping the module that receives the SENT signals? Or that would cause a cascade of other parts that would also need to be replaced to "simply" retrofit the newer door handle modules to an older Model S.
Could be done if someone developed a converter module that interfaces between the new SENT door handle and the old wiring harness. The signals from the new handle get converted to signals which the old body control computer expects to see. An aftermarket supplier opportunity?
"If I can't see them, they must not be there"
AHhh, superfastmatt just got snapped out of existence.
I've never seen any of your videos before, but this is a really quality video! Definitely will check out more of your stuff
This is the first video I've seen of yours.. and i subscribed cuz i was an instantaneous fan of your patience!
I've been wanting to implant handles like these for a long time, from when they first came out on the aston martins, but buying it separately was always a deterrent and DIY is a compromise of safety and the problems highlighted here
5:12 "Apple uses a lot of magnets."😅true indeed.
And, I have to say: Magnets actually are magical.
“There will always be a few that manage to be more idiotic than 6 engineers ever thought possible”.
So. Much. This.
For every design change we make to “idiot proof” our equipment, the world produces a bigger idiot. I saw a guy wrap Teflon tape on the OUTSIDE of a hose fitting and then complain we designed a leaky fluid system…
My father was an chief engineer on a fishing boat you think idiots are bad he had to deal with fishermen they could break stuff that you or i couldn't if we tried
i mean... them idiots are the ones that eventually make the product better, what better way to stress test than in the real world, out there....
You crack me up. Great video.
Liked the disassembly procedure.
I'm definitely liking and subscribing just so you don't have to get a job because this is a much better use of your time. Great work!
Tesla: King of taking something that's reliable, works well, and has been around for half a century, and overcomplicating the crap out of it and making it as reliable as dancing around a fire to make it rain.
„But it‘s cool“
Say the fanboy.
Talking to the man with the hammer:
„Arduino can’t measure it, because it’s in microseconds“
No, you can’t measure it, because you just can’t.
Other’s do. They make it use USB, which is way faster in software.
DMFEA meetings vs "Every time man invents an idiot-proof system, God invents better idiots"
They are already here. It´s just that they haven´t got their hands on a Tesla yet. And when they do, their first mistake is taking the car to a gas station to refuel.
Gotta love that HV cable taking a U turn off the bracket :D
If they monitor the current draw on the motor at the drive circuitry, they can know when it reaches the limit. Remember how you used to be able to knudge your cdrom tray to get it to retract? Same idea.
As interesting as all this is, i can't help but feel that it's unacceptable for the handle to have no mechanical linkage, especially considering some of the other unique and interesting ways some Teslas handle electrical failure.
If a Tesla has gotten to the point where none of the door handles work then busting out a window is peanuts compared to how much it’s going to cost to get the car fixed.
As an electrical engineer, after seeing what you said on this video, if I saw you in front of me...
We would probably hang around. Love the video and sense of humor ❤️
“The door handle will begin to present itself”
Making it sound like an animal planet mating clip
1:00 You just made the complexity of getting the right part to repair a Tesla sound like a good thing.
Matt is immediately likable and I love the way he presents. Thanks, Matt. This was a great explanation.
one of those middle wires is data/power out to the latch. (I work for the company that supplies tesla door latches)