The sad thing in America, besides all the shit you hear about on the news, is the stuff that you don't hear about. Like cis women being attacked in public restrooms, because someone didn't think they were feminine enough. Unfortunately I'm not smart enough to have a good answer for it.
As a cis woman, at work customers sometimes call me sir or ask me if I’m trans and it’s frustrating. I’m EUROPEAN. I can’t help the facial structure / cheekbones / nose I have, it’s specifically a Slavic thing 😅 It’s so weird that people ask these things openly. Like.. Not even trans. And this has been a thing going on since high school for me, it’s so strange.
the fact at the end of the day is: Transphobia hurts cis people too. Because transphobia makes people suspicious of others when it’s no one’s goddamn business.
@@RowanWolf22I came into work on my day off when I worked at a gas station and a man thought I was homeless and gave me 20 buck. I was confused but also not mad. Idk why but that reminds me of that
yeah transphobia really does hurt everyone. just recently a cis woman was killed by a man who thought she was a trans women. she wasn't, not that it would've made it any less bad if she was trans. they just want conformity, and are threatening all women in the name of "protecting" cis women.
I've always seen the term passing to mean cis passing. passing is used in many concepts, I'm disabled but I'm able passing. I know that I have passing privilege because of it, I'm less of a target because of it
Same with the passing part. I am hetero passing since I date a guy, even if I am bisexual. The gaydar usually points at me, but straight people will not know. So I am not usually a target for homophobia
Having a serious talk about what "counts as white" quickly makes people sound like they are 1930's race doctors with vaguely germanic accents. These terms are all completely made up social constructs, and it just gets so much worse when muddled with national identities like being "mexican". Like obviously you can be a white mexican the same way you can be a black or a white american. It's similar to being seen as disabled or not. "Passing" is just playing around these constructs.
@@Cicikus-px2bythat's more of like how Americans use the term "white" or view race vs other places. I mean just going off of race a lot of Latinos are mainly descended from Spaniards and other Europeans so they are white, so it is usually the ethnicity that's very different.
Can you tell me what you know about it? Because I'm confused about what I am and am tempted to do the same thing as Finn. He says he didn't want be seen as a Woman at first and I'm confused what hes trying to find out. I mean he could be anything in between. So I'm guessing he doesn't know where he stands, which is kinda like me. I thought I was a transman in 2016, but was unsure. Forgot about it for a bit because I decided not to start before so it felt like that was it and there was no reason to reconsider if I changed my mind. But now I'm thinking about it again. My voice sounds like a child anyways so I'm not too worried if it lowers a little bit if I decide to try it out. I know the down there grows too. But I imagine that takes time and I'd be able to decide if testosterone is right for me or not before much happens there. I think hair takes longer to come in usually and I'm blonde anyways. I really wonder what color my beard would be though. My eyebrows are a darker blonde and my body hair blends in with my skin color. Someone made it sound like the beard is also unreversible? But I'd think that it wouldn't keep on growing back as much hair over time without testosterone. But shaving exists anyways. I currently have a really good hairline and my Grandpa in his 80s still grows a little hair and my Dad in his 50s doesn't look too bad either. So I'm hoping I get lucky. Short term trying out T shouldn't affect anything too much I'd think.
@@yosachaiko9969 have you transitioned socially? I would highly suggest thinking about it a bit longer, and if you can, try spending some time living socially as a man. That can even just mean having a few close friends refer to you with your chosen name/pronouns. I'm a trans man (been on T for 3 years and 2 yrs post top surgery), and I would caution against starting testosterone before you're fairly certain that's something you want. The changes with testosterone are typically a bit faster and harder to reverse than those with estrogen. You most likely will notice a difference in your voice within a couple months, and bottom growth can start early as well. If you can, have a discussion with a doctor that does hrt for trans people, preferably one that supports those who detransition as well as those transitioning, and talk through your concerns with them. While I never plan on detransitioning, I'm still grateful to know my doctor would support me if I needed to, and they would have the knowledge to address some of your concerns. Transitioning is the best decision I've ever made, and I hope you find happiness whether you transition or not.
@@yosachaiko9969my dude, i think you’ve answered your own question haha. But in all seriousness, I’m going through a similar thing and what really helped me was that i heard one trans youtuber say that they told their doctor this and the doctor said “you don’t need to know if you’re a specific gender - you’re clearly not satisfied without hormones”
@@Arcadayo My first online appointment is on April, 2nd. I did the health intake thing already. So the appointment should be focused on what my goals are, what I want to avoid, and any concerns/questions I have. It seems like I'll be able to get the prescription on the first appointment based on the information they have about their process. They have an option for it to be delivered to you. So I'm doing that and its supposed to be 3 months worth for each refill. I'm 24 now, I need to figure this out. If its right for me, I don't want to miss out while I'm still young. I want to be able to experience being a young man or whatever in between I might be. I don't know how I'm gonna feel when I have to take a blood test though. I've never done that before and I'm definitely not looking.
@@yosachaiko9969 you definitely have some time after starting though facial hair is usually permanent without removing it, unfortunately, which is usually really expensive and painful And of course the voice thing is affected a lot more by t than e, and I guess down there is permanent also. So I guess I’m basically just saying the same thing, I don’t want you to have permanent changes you don’t want, since obviously they could make you really dysphoric if they aren’t right for you I haven’t heard a ton from Finn talking about it but I’m assuming since he calls himself gender fluid that… well, obviously it’s a form of trans/non-binary, and it kind of changes for him I would assume or hard to pin down or something, I don’t know exactly what it means for him I’m not 1000% sure where I am, although I know the direction I want to go, if I’m not binary then I’m probably a lot more binary than you or Finn are, I would guess. Sigh. In my case I wish I’d not been forced through the wrong puberty 😕
I really loved how you put that, especially about how you're gonna be perceived as a woman, and how that's maybe not the thing you want but it's better than not taking hrt
“Passing”is something that happens, but it’s not indicative of someone’s validity, good on Ashley for not falling into that trap, so many trans people end up over obsessing about it to unrealistic extents. And in reality, if you’ve ever talked to someone from the “we can always tell” crowd, you realise it’s not so black and white.
The "we can always tell" crowd only define a woman by seeing if they have a delicate jawline. It's total bs bc cis women can have physical masculine traits as well like being tall or muscly
the "we can always tell" crowd near exclusively targets cis people, it's always so funny to see, i've never actually seen them correctly identify a trans person once the transperson has gone through the entire transition process, but they constantly attack cis people cause they imagined them as trans XD
'Passing' seems, from the outside, being treated and percieved as, versus not caring becuase someone internally feels like a woman - hence the "no, your a woman". I'm far removed from the community, but I bearly imagine feeling like a woman but never passing and getting authentic perception of, and following treatment from, passing. Seems like it will/should always be important, despite it being a strange term
i would love the "we can always tell" crowd to try and figure out what i am LMAO i have a somewhat pointed jaw and a high enough voice, but i also have broad shoulders and a cleft chin. i wanna see them scramble. i want them fighting
@@RepstarVixen probably they call this "tolerable collateral damage". For real TERFs, no collateral damage (not only against dyadic cis but also and especially against intersex people) is too big if only trans woman exclusion is reached.
To me "passing" is more of a safety thing rarher than a personal want in ny transition? Like, i am alright with being a femme man as i am truley androgynous (just more male than female), but passing as a male is a point I wish to reach for safety. Like... I want to be able to wear what I want as a man, and if i get misgendered they go "oh my bad bro" rather than attack me?
I can anecdotally agree with passing as being something more important early on in transitioning. Almost 8 years since I came out as a trans guy and I just recently started growing my hair out because I like it better longer (and obviously it’s been in style for a while now, but it was hard to follow the trend when long hair is still associated heavily with femininity). I’ve been misgendered a little more in public, but I’m at the point where passing just doesn’t matter as much over the things I personally want for myself.
It’s so funny (in a strange way) how hair can get even cis people misgendered. My brother has long hair and his girlfriend has short hair. He’s been called Miss and she’s been called sir while they were at a shop together. He has a beard.
6 years for me, and same about growing hair out. it’s something i like more, and i don’t really care how that makes people perceive my gender - i would prefer them to think my sex is male, but that’s easily achieved by having a low voice and adams apple, people have low standards.
@@gariden what are the trans guys I have in my RUclips feed has a video about this that I would love to watch but haven’t yet. Like on his dealing with wanting longer hair but… I’d wanted long hair my whole life but policed myself so tightly I never did until recently 😬
I just can’t comprehend how people can be so concerned with knowing the genitalia of every person they meet and then trying to enforce what they personally believe the style of cloth one should wear based on that persons genitalia. That’s super pervy if you ask me.
It’s about control. Transphobes need to know if they see you as below them or not and they do that by knowing the other person’s sex because they inherently feel women are inferior to men (or the other way around, because TERFs). If they can’t tell, they get furious.
1000%! Well said. Transphobia is always also misogyny, and involves policing people/patriarchy/forcing people into the boxes that make you comfortable 😕
@@rebeccasam3434 Yeah you have no place to be talking about how this is about making us comfortable when trans people want shit like access to women's bathrooms and women's sports to make them comfortable. Which in turn makes the actual women uncomfortable. You don't get your comfort by taking it away from another. Most of the argument against trans people is geared at protecting women from unstable men that have and will continue to attack them in the places designed for them to have privacy from men, so how you managed to make this about misogyny and the patriarchy should be studied by scientists for how impossible the mental gymnastics required to get to that is. If anything the misogyny is thinking men can become women, the idea that a woman is nothing more than boobs and a vagina and as long as you got them, or hell, even just pretend you want to have them that makes you a woman.
I started hrt recently got on testosterone. I dont know if i wanna be seen as a man or a woman but i do know i am happier on hrt and thats what is important
Coming in as a Queer person. First, FUCK YEAH!!!!!!! 🎉 lol glad you're getting what you need! My nephew is on T right now too but identifies as he/they. I'm thinking as I watch him go through this process he'll become more they/them, but is trying to sort out a lot of the stuff he learned in small town Texas. My partner is publicly trans - he/him. Which is to say he identifies as trans before he does as a man. Mostly due to the non-binary ness that he actually is personally. I am and have always been non-binary. Gender is weird and we made it really hard for no reason. Don't feel like you need all the answers to live your life and make decisions.
@@twhimsy Generally if they're going on T it's the they them to he him pipeline. Most of the time once you're on T for awhile you are able to realize damn. I really am a man. There are cases where that doesn't happen, but in the minority of trans people, non binary people are an even further minority!
Are you non-binary? I’m sure you know this but you can always stop if you decide you don’t like the effects, or have gotten the benefits you want. I personally feel soooo much better that even if I basically give up attempting to do anything else, I still have to be on it 😬
@@rebeccasam3434 yep! That is my plan! I’ve been thinking about HRT for years, I’m 24 now and identified as gender fluid since I first learned what it meant around age 12-14. Only now that I’ve become an adult did I realize I don’t really like the feminine parts of my body. I definitely want top surgery, I’m mostly just hesitant about getting facial hair lol just since I’ve never seen myself with it. I think I just want to come off as androgynous and change my gender expression based on what clothes I choose to wear. But it is still a struggle because I often feel like I am supposed to fit into the binary. 🤷🏼 it’s a journey and one I am happy to be on! 😊
Passing is a sticky subject. Like no one should feel the need to pass or be looked down on BC they don't. Personally. I really fucking want to. Not even just pass to cis folks either but to trans folk... I don't expect to & that's an important thing bc unmet expectations will crush you. But none the less I really really want to.
I think there's a couple things that are a bit weird, like you say you don't dress very feminine but like... i'm a cis woman and neither do I. But that's because I never have to worry about "passing" as a woman ie other people seeing me for who I am.
Yeah, as a cis woman you're not going to be considering things like dressing femininely in this way. Like you might like feminine clothes, or you might like less feminine clothes, but wearing a pair of overalls isn't going to make the average person immediately look at you and go "MAN IN DISGUISE MAN IN DISGUISE" like with trans women :(
Women can't do anything right regardless, cis or trans. We're always "too" something. Too boyish, too girly, too loud, too quiet, ad nauseum. Might as well be ourselves, however that looks. Only people who don't matter will have something to say about it.
I'm a cis woman and I purposely will dress depending on how I feel that day. I absolutely love getting dressed up and what not, but even when I was a child until now I've also absolutely loved dressing androgynous/masc and playing with my gender expression. I don't do it to present my gender a type of way or worry about passing (because when I buzzed my hair, people did think I was a boy sometimes) but just how I feel in my skin that day.
A lot of trans ppl have different thoughts on it i guess, but i remember another trans woman talking about it, Mia Muller, who said that all she wanted out of "passing" as cis is that she is treated as a normal woman. And for a lot of people, it really is about finally escaping into normalcy, and to avoid targetting for their transness. So I mean, i think passing can mean a lot to someone personally, but it also is definitely made worse by how youre treated in society when precieved as trans instead of cis
@@Mr_user_1000 the goal isnt to be just the opposite sex. I am a woman not because of who i am biologically (or not just, since theres a heavy correlation etc etc), but also... just because i am a woman. And trans women also just feel like women, except they dont look the way we expect women to look like naturally. In this way, they can do a number of things to "pass" as male or female, regardless of their birh sex, but you realize how much work this is right? And how for some, either due to time passed, genetics, or just medical restrictions, they wont ever truly look male or female, which ever they go for. And theyll be treated poorly. What a lot of them wish for, like cis people like me and you desire, is just to live life normally. Outside of how we look and ourside of trying so hard to change ourselves over and over. Sorry for the wordy reply, but this is the best way i can put it. Like i get it when a trans woman just wants so hard to just be seen as a normal woman, does so much to "look" like one... to the point where it gets tiring. Some people just wish they could live life good as they are.
@@phibie8853 "What a lot of them wish for is just to live life normally." Normally like the opposite sex. Therefore, their goal is to "pass" as the opposite sex, right?
@@Mr_user_1000 in a better world, they wouldnt need to shell out thousands and go through a lot medically and physically to "pass as the other sex" to be accepted as a man or a woman... and some would like such a blessing. I feel like to understand this you just need to have a bit of empathy and also understand that some of them are really okay with how they look personally, but know the world does not like them if they dont change themselves.
@@phibie8853 The definition of trans is someone who wants to be the other sex. These are the true trans people. The new wave of trans people includes those who are transtrending or playing with "gender" as a hobby. Those may not want to fully transition, sometimes because they're not serious about it. A dude with a beard wearing a wig, heavy make up and fake breasts who is somehow OK with his appearance is not pressured by anyone to "pass" as a woman. He may feel bad that people look at him and think he's weird, but it's up to him to be bothered or not. People can have their opinions and he can consider them or not. Now, if he wants to do things that women do, guess what, he needs to become/be a woman. That's when you may think "society wants people to pass" when it's "if you want to play you need to follow the rules".
I find it interesting how what seemed to have started as a joke and way to get more viewers has become a greater exploration of gender norms, transition potentials, and a really educational thing.
The 'Started as a joke' though is like... take that with a big grain of salt. No guy is going to do that to begin with if it wasn't already something they wanted to do.
Passing is a neutral term, people need to stop getting offended over how other people choose to transition. And for the love of god leave stealth people alone
I think F1nn’s and other peoples point when they say that passing isn’t really a good term to use, is that it’s fairly invalidating for a term we would use for ourselves. I don’t use it for that reason, but I would never begrudge anyone who does.
Passing is theoretically a neutral term, but I think the harm often comes when someone wants to point out that they think someone ISN'T passing or even if "not passing" makes someone a target whether that reason is explicitly stated or not. Passing can be used in a lot of different contexts too. I'm straight passing even though I'm queer, because I'm in a heterosexual seeming relationship. I'm cis passing because I consider myself agender but present close enough to my assigned gender at birth and don't care what pronouns are used. I'm neurotypical passing in a lot of contexts, even though I have ADHD and autism, because I can act out social norms "well enough" in a lot of circumstances, even though they aren't always natural to me. This is basically just describing all the ways I'm lucky to often not be the person most targeted for seeming different. A lot of the time, when passing is a goal rather than a more neutral and factual statement, it's typically reflecting a need for outside validation and/or a need for safety, and that can just be a sad concept for the people who are needing those things more.
don't tell cis people but starting hrt before you truly know you're ready is completely common. we all just lie and say we always knew because that's what we have to say to get it. but it's definitely much more of a vague feeling for a lot of people that becomes obvious once you're on your meds. plus it's hard to know what you actually want and need when you disconnected yourself from your body at puberty lol
Same, I realized something was wrong and I kind of just started HRT to confirm that it was what I wanted and I told.myself i could.stop at any point, and I've been on it for a year and a half so It's clearly working for me.
Yeah, generally a great quote (I wasn’t even going to get a covid vaccine without…) Though it actually CAN fix some of some people’s problems in multiple different ways. Hell, it fixed my constant pounding headaches along with a bunch of other bad things like that.
THIS THIS THIS 100 TIMES OVER it wont magically make every problem in life go away, but it can absolutely help you reach the mindset to take those steps yourself
@@rebeccasam3434 did you just make the claim a vaccine fixed something that it wasn't designed for? Jesus the cognitive dissonance with the rainbow brigade is fucking mad
This is the same reason I got on T. I was only on it for like 6 months (went off for various reasons) but I basically achieved a limbo look where people constantly ask what I am and their confusion fuels me. I've also had people who thought I was MtF which I don't know how to fee about 😂
Honestly I had a similar feeling with HRT, when I started I primarily used they/them and rarely referred to myself as trans (my "label" was non-binary first and foremost) because I wasn't 100% comfortable with being perceived as a woman. Then over time it just started feeling more and more right, so HRT really was the final step in "figuring it out" for me too
Omg same. I went on a half dose of testosterone cuz i was like "well i'm still not sure, and I know I'm not a WOMAN, but I'm probably non binary" and as soon as the testosterone started doing its shit i was like OH. OH. OH. NO. IM A MAN. THIS IS RIGHT. IM A MAN.
@@tylociraptor8131 I LOVE your expression of that! Both of you. I still don’t know exactly what I’m doing, I mean I know what I WANT, I just don’t think it’s realistic, but I do feel massively better the more e I get in me.
Imagine having the funds to start HRT to figure things out. I have at least two years left before my first gender clinic appointment. And I need to do the full gender dysphoria assessment before HRT is an option.
@@sw33t.angela I'm in Sweden. The UK is even worse than here. The people getting admitted in the UK right now have been waiting since 2016. And if you get any private trans care in the UK, you are ineligible to receive any trans care through the NHS for the rest of your life. Finn being able to do this in the UK is a clear mark of wealth.
a vast majority of young transfems in UK tend to DIY while on the waitlist. unfortunately not really an option for transmascs (as testosterone is a controlled substance but estrogen is perfectly legal to import)
@@sw33t.angelamaking sure someone has a psychological evaluation and has gender dysphoria before they go through an irreversible process is "fucked up" to you? Bro that's fucked up.
i like that finn doesnt have a FEAR of HRT, or sees it as a big deal. i know it is for most people, but this is an opinion i dont see much in the trans community and i like that finn feels comfortable to share it. id also love to try HRT just to see if its right for me, but i am still scared 😔
It’s like trying steroids, I love working out and looking big and I have buddies who tell me steroids can help me reach my goals But I have a healthy fear of it since it’s a drug that I’ve seen men react poorly to with adverse side affects HRT is the same thing. It’s pumping your body with something it doesn’t produce natural quantities of, and it will cause side affects that you have to be prepared to face if that’s what you deem best for yourself
i think there's lots of fear mongering around hrt. I've been on it for nearly a year and it's not changed anything that drastically. mostlymy mood (stronger emotions good n bad). but also clearer skin, given me tiny boobs, and made my body look a bit more feminine. its a lot of little things, and of course since I'm a trans woman there's not much i would dislike
@@hxjjdjd606taking e or t in appropriate quantities isn’t like steroids. I mean literally taking t can be a steroid but that’s different. It can even clear up medical issues for some trans presence you’re dealing with people whose neurology are wired for one hormone mixture, but not getting it. For that matter, trans women have low bone density without adding estrogen, and low vitamin d (at least that can be gotten over the counter)
for some people their goal is to pass as cis but for others it is a matter of safety. it can be dangerous not to pass in some environments if people find out you are trans you could be discriminated against, hate crimed or even unalived. but if tou are safe passing is mostly just a preference
Honestly, I love that attitude. You're allowed to have your own opinions and approaches. You don't have to walk in perfect lockstep with the people you're close to. Sure, common values are good, but that's only important for the big things.
As someone who just stumbled across this with zero context of who you are if we passed each other in public i would have assumed woman right off the bat.
Before I started HRT passing was a big thing for me being seen as male was something I was aiming for. Now on HRT I feel good in my own skin and who I want to be. I’ve grown out my hair and i don’t pass like I used too but that’s fine with me now I just want to live as myself regardless of what others perceive me as. What helped me the most were the friends I made that didn’t question my voice or my appearance and used my correct pronouns. I feel safe and I feel seen. In honesty I might just lower my T dose hahaha I do like looking more fem but that’s just a me thing. Not everyone’s journey is gonna be total opposite of how they looked like in thier pre HRT years. You just gotta learn what makes you happy.
So long as we know what pronouns you like, theres no going wrong. Perception is just a subjective construct but words are words and they gotta be right.
I understand Ashley's viewpoint, but in my opinion the term passing is not referring to who you are or your gender identity, it is specifically the physical-social view.
I've always sort of genuinely wondered about this position, but I hear it a lot. If Gender only even exists as a socially constructed thing, then why doesn't it matter that the society recognizes you as the thing you want to be seen as? I would have thought the whole point in the whole thing was to be socially considered male or female or whatever it is you wanted
@@EnderSword Modern trans people are adapting to criticisms to try to make their ideology coherent. So some of they came up with this new 'I don't care' ideology to push back on 'you don't accept yourself, why should we accept you?' or 'if gender is meaningless, then why do you care so much about changing your gender?' or to justify why so many trans people do not look the gender they claim they are. Do not try to understand modern trans people, they just don't make sense.
The passing thing is so true for me at least. I came out 7 years ago as ftm and when I did it was like the most important thing to me to pass as a cis man but now 7 years later I’m way more comfortable in the fluidity of my gender expression and I dress feminine and all that as what other people see me as doesn’t really bother me anymore
personally, ive known im trans for so long without access to medical transition that ive completely given up on passing, and honestly i think im better off for it. granted that mindset isn't for everyone, its all well and good for me to say this because most people just assume im a very ugly lesbian, but i couldn't really give a shit either way. im secure in myself and ive never liked other people enough to care what they think of me anyway. to me passing was just a means to an end, one more stupid expectation put on me that i inexplicably had to meet in order to receive basic respect. i guess i was less tolerant of people giving me shit for not passing because i'd already gone through years of people telling me the same crap about every other aspect of my identity. i think passing comes more naturally for other people if they weren't socially shunned for anything before being trans, in which case yeah youre suddenly at the bottom of the food chain and now everyone hates you so you're gonna do everything you can to get back to the level of respect you had before. but if you never had anyone's respect to begin with it's gonna seem like pushing a boulder up a hill. point is im used to not being a person correctly and facing the consequences of that. and honestly im willing to take any of those consequences in stride before ever trying to push a boulder up that hill again.
ive always considered passing to be a mainly safety focused thing, when i think about passing its because i just want to not be killed nothing else so yeah the concept of passing is dumb but sadly in today's world its a necessary one because there will always be people who wish me harm if i dont look a certain way
„passing“ often feels and is safer because people assume you’re Cis and the gender you want to pass as. When you are further in the transition, passing becomes less important as you become more comfortable in your new way of life and self expression. Unfortunately not passing can immediately out you as trans which can be quite dangerous at the moment. Cis people are facing safety issues too because newsflash: Trans doesn’t have a look. Anyone who looks too ambiguous is going to be targeted
"When you are further in the transition, passing becomes less important as you become more comfortable in your new way of life and self expression." I disagree. It may be this way for some, but for a large, I'd say the majority of trans people... we just want to look, and be treated as the gender we identify as. There's a reason why most trans women seek out laser hair removal, why most trans men get top surgery. Passing only becomes less important, because we don't need to do as much to actually achieve it. I don't have to worry about hiding my face or my hips, or binding my chest to appear masculine, i've had the surgery and the hormones to do that for me.
When you're younger preferably before the age of 25, it is much easier to pass than it is. For somebody who is over 60 or 65 years old. The benefit though, is that when you get to be 65, you can look a whole lot younger than you actually are.
I think it’s interesting how you said passing is more of a starting out thing. It was super important to me for a while so I dressed and acted way more masculine just so I would be perceived as male and even then I sometimes wouldn’t be but now I’m more comfortable in myself and my gender and would even consider myself a bit non-binary/gender-fluid and have longer hair, wear more feminine clothes, even act more feminine and I find I’m seen as male more than I was before but even when I’m not it doesn’t really make me uncomfortable anymore. I’ve only been transitioning for like seven years now, which holy shit feels like it’s been two, and the only thing I have left so I’m like fully comfortable is getting a hysterectomy which I’m going to a consultation for within the week. It genuinely does get easier with time and ‘passing’ becomes less important as you’re able to actually see yourself as the gender you are rather than like you’re trying to become it.
Passing is for other people a lot of the time and some people look different from what they want for acceptance and safety (which is completely fine) but a lot of people when they are ready to rely on their own acceptance and live in a safe place change what they look like so they can be who they want.
Yeah... I'm a trans man who passes as a short cis guy and I'm very grateful for it. I get misgendered sometimes bc I'm short and have long hair so from the back I might get a 'miss' but when i turn around its "buhubuhunlaskjdasorry, sir". I always say that in that aspect I as a trans man get it a lot easier than trans women because despite my height, testosterone did all the things it was supposed to do, voice, beard, hairy, facial structure and weight distribution. Trans women, specifically those who didn't have the opportunity of blockers don't often get that lucky ;-;
@@tylociraptor8131 forcing people through the wrong puberty is horrifying body horror…and then of course these same people judge them on the other side 😡 Sigh. It’s rough knowing I’d get to be an actual human being if not for bigots.
I have a complicated relationship with passing. Trans man-masc-nonbinary-bigender-whateverthefuck opinion here, though. I was on HRT for 5 years, from 19 to 24. I tried REALLY hard to pass, and passed as a teenage boy to the point where people were severely shocked that I was a grown ass adult who could order alcohol. I'm not on T and haven't been on it in 2 years, and I don't pass. Especially because I was never able to get top surgery because there's multiple loops to jump through in order to even apply for insurance coverage, and I can't jump through those loops. Honestly I kind of stopped when I got what I wanted out of T, and had an identity crisis in my 5th year of HRT, and it was just this big thing that is way too long for RUclips comments. Even with a voice deepening and adams apple I don't pass as any flavor of guy and it's upsetting but at the same time it's like, Idk, I asked for this. And it's not like I even get kindness about it from other trans people, it's like a damned if you do damned if you don't thing.
Yeah im one year on T and i kinda just stopped taking it last week because i realized im acrually NEVER going to pass as male, i have a huge chest and even with top surgery i dont see it happening. Kinda like giving up and greiving the boy i never was but whatever. Maybe i could up my T but i dont wanna be fat. And i also dont wanna go to the gym. So maybe its just not meant to be.
@@whereamihelpme T actually had the opposite effect on me; it made me lose weight, which did help with the whole passing thing because it did make me less hourglass-shaped, but like. Yeah I'm still "out" as much as I can be (family, partner, friends) but the place I live is conservative as all hell so I don't want to take ANY legal steps to put a target on my back and that's kind of a privilege. I'd change my gender marker, name, and get top surgery if I lived in California, but that's never happening It's like, halfway a privilege to be able to just, pretend I'm not trans, go by legal name, stop HRT, etc... I halfway agree with Finnster. It is better to pass as the binary gender that's closer to your transition goals, but at the same time, the way I would like to pass is unattainable. I want to be seen as a confusing girly guy, and as much as enbyphobes and tirfs dislike it, I really identify with the phrase "female man/boy/etc." I'm the tran that trans exclusionary homosexuals (that is their community term as far as I can recall) warn you about. The "gay fetishizing autoandrophile" as they like to put it I've even been told by other trans guys that me not passing is a "skill issue." T is not the magical man elixir that so many people think it is. There are just people on T who still can't pass, same as people on E who can't pass. Hormones aren't the be all end all to passing, neither is clothing style
@@isthiscereallife there seems to be a lot of your mail which may vary with hormones I’m also glad that I’ve run across a lot of people on estrogen but also testosterone sometimes literally don’t do anything else to try to pass or “transition“ or anything, but still getting benefit from it and… it’s better than when they used to make women cosplay as 1950s housewives to get access to medical care, and whatever the male equivalent to that was 🙄 (probably involved a pipe 😅)
@@rebeccasam3434 Hey, I'm really sorry, but I don't really understand what you're saying. Do you think you could rephrase it like I'm a kid or something?
Passing is a weird concept for sure, I remember really wanting it at first but these days I don't even think about it. Maybe it's like a mix of wanting to be accepted in society with the desire to look outwardly what you see inwardly. idk if that makes sense. But if you see yourself as a woman it might make sense to want to pass outwardly as a woman as validation for your efforts yaknow. Personally my original goal was to reach a androgynous level but I started "passing" without ever really wanting that so I just rolled with it and I'm happy lol
Not passing is probably the only reason I never started. Only really recently came to the understanding of myself that I would have transitioned if I were young enough to feel like I could look natural, but I'm 36 now.
the thing about passing is it’s a concept centred on fitting the binary. a passing trans woman would have characteristics that are gender roles or stereotypes for women, long hair, long eyelashes, well kept nails, etc. this isn’t a bad thing on its own cause those things aren’t bad things, it is bad in the context that it reinforces the gender binary to say a trans person has to pass or should be passing. if you desire to be very the classic socially accepted version of a man or woman obviously go right ahead, but with the concept of passing being so prevalent it ends up forcing people to reject their more androgynous traits as an attempt to pass for societies sake
Knitting is significantly slower than crochet if you’ve ever wanted to try either of them though.. I used to be literally so scared of trying because I thought I’d get bored but you literally black out while you’re doing it sometimes it’s absolutely amazing
Passing is the shortened version of cis-passing. So its more about being incognito than it is about actually being the gender you know you are. I agree that it is much more importanf in the earlier stages. The longer im on Testosterone the less i care about passing
For me passing is more of a safety thing? When I'm out with a group of queers or going into queer spaces I dont worry about it as much. But I work in a field that gets a lot of flack when trans people are in it so I have to try to pass.
To clarify, I would try to pass as cis regardless of my gender at first but as hrt's effects started to take hold it was harder to pass as cis anything! (Mostly because I'm only a little over a year on hormones)
i feel like passing and gender fluid are pretty much the same thing..... in my opinion anyway but i struggle with it. i'm 32 and just came out as bi-sexual a year and a half ago.... the first boy i had a relationship with was in 2015 but i had a girlfriend at the time and i cut him off... i miss him terribly but he was the only boy i ever found attractive. after my girlfriend (of nine years btw) left me in 01/2013 i came out a couple months later and found out about finn and it inspired me and gave me the confidence to be more feminine. now my friends tell me i definitely could pass as a female if i wanted to but i feel like i'm too old now.... plus i still enjoy being a boy. i do experience gender dysphoria from time to time though.
Passing is also a weird concept because you’ll plenty of women that don’t “pass” as women. It’s just one of those silly things. That’s not to say that if it’s something you aim for as a personal goal then fine, but try not to let it define you or get under your skin if you don’t meet your own possibly lofty expectations.
You would 100% pass as a woman on the street, first time I saw one of your tik tok tok i thought your voice was voiced over cuz I didn't know about you haha!
Passing is basically a term for the socially dominant group perceiving you as part of that group. Be that white passing, straight passing, cis passing out something else. I can definitely understand someone feeling that shouldn't really matter and definitely shouldn't be your goal. It's perfectly fine to want to look like a woman, whatever that means to you. It's just treating cis woman like they're the goal is a bit 😬. Kind of like how there's nothing with with a black person wanting to do things that aren't stereotypically black, but a black person trying to be as white as possible to be accepted is going to carry some anti blackness.
So.....I stopped watching Finn a while ago mainly cause the person that kept donating large amounts of money wanting Finn to transition iirc was legitimately making me uncomfortable, and now i see this short. I have no clue if that person is still around but i really do hope Finn is making these choices on their own by their personal desire and they're not being influenced/convinced to do this.
Tenmuses actually went on a journey to travel the world and climb mountains and stuff about a year ago. When he left he donated a huge amount to a trans health thing. Finn has explicitly stated he isn't doing it for fame (he was already doing so well as "guy who looks like girl" so why would he change)
Passing is really only something that I think is important for safety if you need to be stealth or something Otherwise, I think it's a concept that can cause harm and is something that trans and gnc people should try to unlearn. It's honestly comparable to a beauty standard
For me passing was EVERYTHING. But since I'm a trans man, that makes a lot of sense. People treat me so much better now that I just pass without having to try.
i'm pretty binary as a trans male which is why i'm really happy to see people who are more fluid because it's inspiring to be able to be happy as you but also be perceived as multiple things to different people. like i am completely happy since i started T a little over a year and a half ago, and always felt i made the right decision as identifying as male 1 year 9 months before T. so, it is also beautiful to share experiences just being happy medically transitioning because it can be affirming regardless of how you feel about your identity! 🩵🩷🤍🩷🩵
I just discovered finns channel recently through his coming out video and I thought he was 100% a woman coming out as lesbian. The only giveaway is his voice. He looks like he's meant to be female to me just like kris tyson, even when not cross dressing.
I don't like the term and believe of passing for many reasons. Passing also implies that afab with what could be perceived by some as having masculine features or attributes aren't feminine enough or not woman enough to "pass" as either. There is so much biological variety and it's only our shallow societal ideas and beauty standards that dictate what should or shouldn't be feminine. If you feel like a woman, you're a woman. 💜
Yeah, it’s annoying lol. I was jealous of him when he was supposedly a cis dude 😂 As far as I can tell we’ve been on a real dose of hrt about the same length of time. Not that I don’t look better but geez
Tbh let the people be what they want and how they wont even uf they wana be any animal as long as they dont hurt anyone else and dont want to convert u just let them b as they let u b
The sad thing in America, besides all the shit you hear about on the news, is the stuff that you don't hear about. Like cis women being attacked in public restrooms, because someone didn't think they were feminine enough. Unfortunately I'm not smart enough to have a good answer for it.
More gender neutral bathrooms or individual bathrooms
As a cis woman, at work customers sometimes call me sir or ask me if I’m trans and it’s frustrating. I’m EUROPEAN. I can’t help the facial structure / cheekbones / nose I have, it’s specifically a Slavic thing 😅 It’s so weird that people ask these things openly. Like.. Not even trans. And this has been a thing going on since high school for me, it’s so strange.
the fact at the end of the day is: Transphobia hurts cis people too. Because transphobia makes people suspicious of others when it’s no one’s goddamn business.
@@RowanWolf22I came into work on my day off when I worked at a gas station and a man thought I was homeless and gave me 20 buck. I was confused but also not mad. Idk why but that reminds me of that
yeah transphobia really does hurt everyone. just recently a cis woman was killed by a man who thought she was a trans women. she wasn't, not that it would've made it any less bad if she was trans.
they just want conformity, and are threatening all women in the name of "protecting" cis women.
I've always seen the term passing to mean cis passing. passing is used in many concepts, I'm disabled but I'm able passing. I know that I have passing privilege because of it, I'm less of a target because of it
Same with the passing part. I am hetero passing since I date a guy, even if I am bisexual. The gaydar usually points at me, but straight people will not know. So I am not usually a target for homophobia
My boyfriend is what I call "white passing" lol. So is his mother, born in Mexico, speak fluent Spanish, but she is blonde and very light skinned.
@@peytonlane1762 you can be mexican and still be white, so i wouldnt say its "white passing" youre just white. mexican people come in many colors.
Having a serious talk about what "counts as white" quickly makes people sound like they are 1930's race doctors with vaguely germanic accents. These terms are all completely made up social constructs, and it just gets so much worse when muddled with national identities like being "mexican". Like obviously you can be a white mexican the same way you can be a black or a white american.
It's similar to being seen as disabled or not. "Passing" is just playing around these constructs.
@@Cicikus-px2bythat's more of like how Americans use the term "white" or view race vs other places. I mean just going off of race a lot of Latinos are mainly descended from Spaniards and other Europeans so they are white, so it is usually the ethnicity that's very different.
The way bro would EASILY pass in public. Only his voice is giving it away maybe.
MAYBE?
Yeah tbh I see last extensions and my brain goes "ah yes, another basic b. My people"
Finn's demeanor is also typically boyish. Like the way he walks or sits
@@aeoligarlic4024that can be summed up as being a tomboy, some tomboys can adopt a few boyish mannerisms and behaviours.
@@aeoligarlic4024i sit just like this and am a cis woman though
As a trans person, your relationship with gender is so interesting
Can you tell me what you know about it? Because I'm confused about what I am and am tempted to do the same thing as Finn. He says he didn't want be seen as a Woman at first and I'm confused what hes trying to find out. I mean he could be anything in between. So I'm guessing he doesn't know where he stands, which is kinda like me. I thought I was a transman in 2016, but was unsure. Forgot about it for a bit because I decided not to start before so it felt like that was it and there was no reason to reconsider if I changed my mind. But now I'm thinking about it again. My voice sounds like a child anyways so I'm not too worried if it lowers a little bit if I decide to try it out. I know the down there grows too. But I imagine that takes time and I'd be able to decide if testosterone is right for me or not before much happens there. I think hair takes longer to come in usually and I'm blonde anyways. I really wonder what color my beard would be though. My eyebrows are a darker blonde and my body hair blends in with my skin color. Someone made it sound like the beard is also unreversible? But I'd think that it wouldn't keep on growing back as much hair over time without testosterone. But shaving exists anyways. I currently have a really good hairline and my Grandpa in his 80s still grows a little hair and my Dad in his 50s doesn't look too bad either. So I'm hoping I get lucky. Short term trying out T shouldn't affect anything too much I'd think.
@@yosachaiko9969 have you transitioned socially? I would highly suggest thinking about it a bit longer, and if you can, try spending some time living socially as a man. That can even just mean having a few close friends refer to you with your chosen name/pronouns. I'm a trans man (been on T for 3 years and 2 yrs post top surgery), and I would caution against starting testosterone before you're fairly certain that's something you want. The changes with testosterone are typically a bit faster and harder to reverse than those with estrogen. You most likely will notice a difference in your voice within a couple months, and bottom growth can start early as well. If you can, have a discussion with a doctor that does hrt for trans people, preferably one that supports those who detransition as well as those transitioning, and talk through your concerns with them. While I never plan on detransitioning, I'm still grateful to know my doctor would support me if I needed to, and they would have the knowledge to address some of your concerns.
Transitioning is the best decision I've ever made, and I hope you find happiness whether you transition or not.
@@yosachaiko9969my dude, i think you’ve answered your own question haha. But in all seriousness, I’m going through a similar thing and what really helped me was that i heard one trans youtuber say that they told their doctor this and the doctor said “you don’t need to know if you’re a specific gender - you’re clearly not satisfied without hormones”
@@Arcadayo My first online appointment is on April, 2nd. I did the health intake thing already. So the appointment should be focused on what my goals are, what I want to avoid, and any concerns/questions I have. It seems like I'll be able to get the prescription on the first appointment based on the information they have about their process. They have an option for it to be delivered to you. So I'm doing that and its supposed to be 3 months worth for each refill. I'm 24 now, I need to figure this out. If its right for me, I don't want to miss out while I'm still young. I want to be able to experience being a young man or whatever in between I might be. I don't know how I'm gonna feel when I have to take a blood test though. I've never done that before and I'm definitely not looking.
@@yosachaiko9969 you definitely have some time after starting though facial hair is usually permanent without removing it, unfortunately, which is usually really expensive and painful
And of course the voice thing is affected a lot more by t than e, and I guess down there is permanent also.
So I guess I’m basically just saying the same thing, I don’t want you to have permanent changes you don’t want, since obviously they could make you really dysphoric if they aren’t right for you
I haven’t heard a ton from Finn talking about it but I’m assuming since he calls himself gender fluid that… well, obviously it’s a form of trans/non-binary, and it kind of changes for him I would assume or hard to pin down or something, I don’t know exactly what it means for him
I’m not 1000% sure where I am, although I know the direction I want to go, if I’m not binary then I’m probably a lot more binary than you or Finn are, I would guess.
Sigh. In my case I wish I’d not been forced through the wrong puberty 😕
I really loved how you put that, especially about how you're gonna be perceived as a woman, and how that's maybe not the thing you want but it's better than not taking hrt
“Passing”is something that happens, but it’s not indicative of someone’s validity, good on Ashley for not falling into that trap, so many trans people end up over obsessing about it to unrealistic extents.
And in reality, if you’ve ever talked to someone from the “we can always tell” crowd, you realise it’s not so black and white.
The "we can always tell" crowd only define a woman by seeing if they have a delicate jawline. It's total bs bc cis women can have physical masculine traits as well like being tall or muscly
the "we can always tell" crowd near exclusively targets cis people, it's always so funny to see, i've never actually seen them correctly identify a trans person once the transperson has gone through the entire transition process, but they constantly attack cis people cause they imagined them as trans XD
'Passing' seems, from the outside, being treated and percieved as, versus not caring becuase someone internally feels like a woman - hence the "no, your a woman".
I'm far removed from the community, but I bearly imagine feeling like a woman but never passing and getting authentic perception of, and following treatment from, passing.
Seems like it will/should always be important, despite it being a strange term
i would love the "we can always tell" crowd to try and figure out what i am LMAO i have a somewhat pointed jaw and a high enough voice, but i also have broad shoulders and a cleft chin. i wanna see them scramble. i want them fighting
@@RepstarVixen probably they call this "tolerable collateral damage". For real TERFs, no collateral damage (not only against dyadic cis but also and especially against intersex people) is too big if only trans woman exclusion is reached.
To me "passing" is more of a safety thing rarher than a personal want in ny transition? Like, i am alright with being a femme man as i am truley androgynous (just more male than female), but passing as a male is a point I wish to reach for safety. Like... I want to be able to wear what I want as a man, and if i get misgendered they go "oh my bad bro" rather than attack me?
Generally I think “passing” is about safety, since being visibly trans can be dangerous considering how bigots can be so volatile & violent
I can anecdotally agree with passing as being something more important early on in transitioning. Almost 8 years since I came out as a trans guy and I just recently started growing my hair out because I like it better longer (and obviously it’s been in style for a while now, but it was hard to follow the trend when long hair is still associated heavily with femininity). I’ve been misgendered a little more in public, but I’m at the point where passing just doesn’t matter as much over the things I personally want for myself.
It’s so funny (in a strange way) how hair can get even cis people misgendered. My brother has long hair and his girlfriend has short hair. He’s been called Miss and she’s been called sir while they were at a shop together. He has a beard.
6 years for me, and same about growing hair out. it’s something i like more, and i don’t really care how that makes people perceive my gender - i would prefer them to think my sex is male, but that’s easily achieved by having a low voice and adams apple, people have low standards.
@@gariden what are the trans guys I have in my RUclips feed has a video about this that I would love to watch but haven’t yet. Like on his dealing with wanting longer hair but…
I’d wanted long hair my whole life but policed myself so tightly I never did until recently 😬
I just can’t comprehend how people can be so concerned with knowing the genitalia of every person they meet and then trying to enforce what they personally believe the style of cloth one should wear based on that persons genitalia. That’s super pervy if you ask me.
It’s about control. Transphobes need to know if they see you as below them or not and they do that by knowing the other person’s sex because they inherently feel women are inferior to men (or the other way around, because TERFs). If they can’t tell, they get furious.
1000%! Well said. Transphobia is always also misogyny, and involves policing people/patriarchy/forcing people into the boxes that make you comfortable 😕
@@rebeccasam3434 It's especially weird when they are obsessed with children in that sort of way.
@@rebeccasam3434 Yeah you have no place to be talking about how this is about making us comfortable when trans people want shit like access to women's bathrooms and women's sports to make them comfortable. Which in turn makes the actual women uncomfortable. You don't get your comfort by taking it away from another. Most of the argument against trans people is geared at protecting women from unstable men that have and will continue to attack them in the places designed for them to have privacy from men, so how you managed to make this about misogyny and the patriarchy should be studied by scientists for how impossible the mental gymnastics required to get to that is. If anything the misogyny is thinking men can become women, the idea that a woman is nothing more than boobs and a vagina and as long as you got them, or hell, even just pretend you want to have them that makes you a woman.
@@vogonp4287 yeah, it’s all really creepy and bizarre.
I started hrt recently got on testosterone. I dont know if i wanna be seen as a man or a woman but i do know i am happier on hrt and thats what is important
Coming in as a Queer person. First, FUCK YEAH!!!!!!! 🎉 lol glad you're getting what you need! My nephew is on T right now too but identifies as he/they. I'm thinking as I watch him go through this process he'll become more they/them, but is trying to sort out a lot of the stuff he learned in small town Texas. My partner is publicly trans - he/him. Which is to say he identifies as trans before he does as a man. Mostly due to the non-binary ness that he actually is personally. I am and have always been non-binary. Gender is weird and we made it really hard for no reason. Don't feel like you need all the answers to live your life and make decisions.
@@twhimsy Generally if they're going on T it's the they them to he him pipeline. Most of the time once you're on T for awhile you are able to realize damn. I really am a man. There are cases where that doesn't happen, but in the minority of trans people, non binary people are an even further minority!
Are you non-binary? I’m sure you know this but you can always stop if you decide you don’t like the effects, or have gotten the benefits you want.
I personally feel soooo much better that even if I basically give up attempting to do anything else, I still have to be on it 😬
@@rebeccasam3434 yep! That is my plan! I’ve been thinking about HRT for years, I’m 24 now and identified as gender fluid since I first learned what it meant around age 12-14. Only now that I’ve become an adult did I realize I don’t really like the feminine parts of my body. I definitely want top surgery, I’m mostly just hesitant about getting facial hair lol just since I’ve never seen myself with it. I think I just want to come off as androgynous and change my gender expression based on what clothes I choose to wear. But it is still a struggle because I often feel like I am supposed to fit into the binary. 🤷🏼 it’s a journey and one I am happy to be on! 😊
Is it? Happiness shouldn't be the goal. Healing should be.
Passing is a sticky subject.
Like no one should feel the need to pass or be looked down on BC they don't.
Personally. I really fucking want to. Not even just pass to cis folks either but to trans folk... I don't expect to & that's an important thing bc unmet expectations will crush you.
But none the less I really really want to.
I think there's a couple things that are a bit weird, like you say you don't dress very feminine but like... i'm a cis woman and neither do I. But that's because I never have to worry about "passing" as a woman ie other people seeing me for who I am.
Yeah, as a cis woman you're not going to be considering things like dressing femininely in this way. Like you might like feminine clothes, or you might like less feminine clothes, but wearing a pair of overalls isn't going to make the average person immediately look at you and go "MAN IN DISGUISE MAN IN DISGUISE" like with trans women :(
@@tylociraptor8131yeah, although lots of cis women get policed too, either because of transphobia, or just people policing women in general 😕
Women can't do anything right regardless, cis or trans. We're always "too" something. Too boyish, too girly, too loud, too quiet, ad nauseum. Might as well be ourselves, however that looks. Only people who don't matter will have something to say about it.
I'm a cis woman and I purposely will dress depending on how I feel that day. I absolutely love getting dressed up and what not, but even when I was a child until now I've also absolutely loved dressing androgynous/masc and playing with my gender expression. I don't do it to present my gender a type of way or worry about passing (because when I buzzed my hair, people did think I was a boy sometimes) but just how I feel in my skin that day.
A lot of trans ppl have different thoughts on it i guess, but i remember another trans woman talking about it, Mia Muller, who said that all she wanted out of "passing" as cis is that she is treated as a normal woman. And for a lot of people, it really is about finally escaping into normalcy, and to avoid targetting for their transness. So I mean, i think passing can mean a lot to someone personally, but it also is definitely made worse by how youre treated in society when precieved as trans instead of cis
If your goal is to be other sex, then why isn't passing the ultimate goal?
@@Mr_user_1000 the goal isnt to be just the opposite sex. I am a woman not because of who i am biologically (or not just, since theres a heavy correlation etc etc), but also... just because i am a woman. And trans women also just feel like women, except they dont look the way we expect women to look like naturally. In this way, they can do a number of things to "pass" as male or female, regardless of their birh sex, but you realize how much work this is right? And how for some, either due to time passed, genetics, or just medical restrictions, they wont ever truly look male or female, which ever they go for. And theyll be treated poorly. What a lot of them wish for, like cis people like me and you desire, is just to live life normally. Outside of how we look and ourside of trying so hard to change ourselves over and over.
Sorry for the wordy reply, but this is the best way i can put it. Like i get it when a trans woman just wants so hard to just be seen as a normal woman, does so much to "look" like one... to the point where it gets tiring. Some people just wish they could live life good as they are.
@@phibie8853 "What a lot of them wish for is just to live life normally." Normally like the opposite sex. Therefore, their goal is to "pass" as the opposite sex, right?
@@Mr_user_1000 in a better world, they wouldnt need to shell out thousands and go through a lot medically and physically to "pass as the other sex" to be accepted as a man or a woman... and some would like such a blessing. I feel like to understand this you just need to have a bit of empathy and also understand that some of them are really okay with how they look personally, but know the world does not like them if they dont change themselves.
@@phibie8853 The definition of trans is someone who wants to be the other sex. These are the true trans people.
The new wave of trans people includes those who are transtrending or playing with "gender" as a hobby. Those may not want to fully transition, sometimes because they're not serious about it.
A dude with a beard wearing a wig, heavy make up and fake breasts who is somehow OK with his appearance is not pressured by anyone to "pass" as a woman. He may feel bad that people look at him and think he's weird, but it's up to him to be bothered or not. People can have their opinions and he can consider them or not.
Now, if he wants to do things that women do, guess what, he needs to become/be a woman. That's when you may think "society wants people to pass" when it's "if you want to play you need to follow the rules".
I find it interesting how what seemed to have started as a joke and way to get more viewers has become a greater exploration of gender norms, transition potentials, and a really educational thing.
The 'Started as a joke' though is like... take that with a big grain of salt.
No guy is going to do that to begin with if it wasn't already something they wanted to do.
@@EnderSword These days? Not at all, this guy is living proof that transtrenderism is real.
Passing is a neutral term, people need to stop getting offended over how other people choose to transition. And for the love of god leave stealth people alone
I think F1nn’s and other peoples point when they say that passing isn’t really a good term to use, is that it’s fairly invalidating for a term we would use for ourselves. I don’t use it for that reason, but I would never begrudge anyone who does.
Passing is theoretically a neutral term, but I think the harm often comes when someone wants to point out that they think someone ISN'T passing or even if "not passing" makes someone a target whether that reason is explicitly stated or not. Passing can be used in a lot of different contexts too. I'm straight passing even though I'm queer, because I'm in a heterosexual seeming relationship. I'm cis passing because I consider myself agender but present close enough to my assigned gender at birth and don't care what pronouns are used. I'm neurotypical passing in a lot of contexts, even though I have ADHD and autism, because I can act out social norms "well enough" in a lot of circumstances, even though they aren't always natural to me. This is basically just describing all the ways I'm lucky to often not be the person most targeted for seeming different. A lot of the time, when passing is a goal rather than a more neutral and factual statement, it's typically reflecting a need for outside validation and/or a need for safety, and that can just be a sad concept for the people who are needing those things more.
Hell yeah positive discourse
don't tell cis people but starting hrt before you truly know you're ready is completely common. we all just lie and say we always knew because that's what we have to say to get it. but it's definitely much more of a vague feeling for a lot of people that becomes obvious once you're on your meds. plus it's hard to know what you actually want and need when you disconnected yourself from your body at puberty lol
Same, I realized something was wrong and I kind of just started HRT to confirm that it was what I wanted and I told.myself i could.stop at any point, and I've been on it for a year and a half so It's clearly working for me.
HRT wont fix your problems
HRT makes your problems worth fixing
So. Fucking. Real.
Yeah, generally a great quote (I wasn’t even going to get a covid vaccine without…)
Though it actually CAN fix some of some people’s problems in multiple different ways.
Hell, it fixed my constant pounding headaches along with a bunch of other bad things like that.
THIS THIS THIS 100 TIMES OVER
it wont magically make every problem in life go away, but it can absolutely help you reach the mindset to take those steps yourself
@@rebeccasam3434 did you just make the claim a vaccine fixed something that it wasn't designed for? Jesus the cognitive dissonance with the rainbow brigade is fucking mad
This is the same reason I got on T. I was only on it for like 6 months (went off for various reasons) but I basically achieved a limbo look where people constantly ask what I am and their confusion fuels me.
I've also had people who thought I was MtF which I don't know how to fee about 😂
congrats on starting your journey! I hope you get all the love and support ❤️.
I could hardly even hear what you were saying, i was so focused on how pretty those lashes are wow 😍 they fit your eyes so well
Honestly I had a similar feeling with HRT, when I started I primarily used they/them and rarely referred to myself as trans (my "label" was non-binary first and foremost) because I wasn't 100% comfortable with being perceived as a woman. Then over time it just started feeling more and more right, so HRT really was the final step in "figuring it out" for me too
Omg same. I went on a half dose of testosterone cuz i was like "well i'm still not sure, and I know I'm not a WOMAN, but I'm probably non binary" and as soon as the testosterone started doing its shit i was like OH. OH. OH. NO. IM A MAN. THIS IS RIGHT. IM A MAN.
@@tylociraptor8131 I LOVE your expression of that! Both of you.
I still don’t know exactly what I’m doing, I mean I know what I WANT, I just don’t think it’s realistic, but I do feel massively better the more e I get in me.
Imagine having the funds to start HRT to figure things out. I have at least two years left before my first gender clinic appointment. And I need to do the full gender dysphoria assessment before HRT is an option.
UK? The process is so fucked up there.
@@sw33t.angela I'm in Sweden. The UK is even worse than here. The people getting admitted in the UK right now have been waiting since 2016. And if you get any private trans care in the UK, you are ineligible to receive any trans care through the NHS for the rest of your life. Finn being able to do this in the UK is a clear mark of wealth.
a vast majority of young transfems in UK tend to DIY while on the waitlist. unfortunately not really an option for transmascs (as testosterone is a controlled substance but estrogen is perfectly legal to import)
Same. The waiting list where I live (Scotland) is 6 years. I’m currently only on year 3 :(
@@sw33t.angelamaking sure someone has a psychological evaluation and has gender dysphoria before they go through an irreversible process is "fucked up" to you? Bro that's fucked up.
i like that finn doesnt have a FEAR of HRT, or sees it as a big deal. i know it is for most people, but this is an opinion i dont see much in the trans community and i like that finn feels comfortable to share it. id also love to try HRT just to see if its right for me, but i am still scared 😔
It’s like trying steroids, I love working out and looking big and I have buddies who tell me steroids can help me reach my goals
But I have a healthy fear of it since it’s a drug that I’ve seen men react poorly to with adverse side affects
HRT is the same thing. It’s pumping your body with something it doesn’t produce natural quantities of, and it will cause side affects that you have to be prepared to face if that’s what you deem best for yourself
i think there's lots of fear mongering around hrt. I've been on it for nearly a year and it's not changed anything that drastically. mostlymy mood (stronger emotions good n bad). but also clearer skin, given me tiny boobs, and made my body look a bit more feminine. its a lot of little things, and of course since I'm a trans woman there's not much i would dislike
@@hxjjdjd606taking e or t in appropriate quantities isn’t like steroids. I mean literally taking t can be a steroid but that’s different.
It can even clear up medical issues for some trans presence you’re dealing with people whose neurology are wired for one hormone mixture, but not getting it.
For that matter, trans women have low bone density without adding estrogen, and low vitamin d (at least that can be gotten over the counter)
for some people their goal is to pass as cis but for others it is a matter of safety. it can be dangerous not to pass in some environments if people find out you are trans you could be discriminated against, hate crimed or even unalived. but if tou are safe passing is mostly just a preference
The idea of going on hrt to figure things out has blown my mind like….can I do that? Is that allowed? 😂
Honestly, I love that attitude. You're allowed to have your own opinions and approaches. You don't have to walk in perfect lockstep with the people you're close to. Sure, common values are good, but that's only important for the big things.
People who pass ALWAYS say passing is dumb or not important.
As someone who just stumbled across this with zero context of who you are if we passed each other in public i would have assumed woman right off the bat.
Her shorts are always super interesting honestly. Don't know this creator but I'm happy for her.
Before I started HRT passing was a big thing for me being seen as male was something I was aiming for. Now on HRT I feel good in my own skin and who I want to be. I’ve grown out my hair and i don’t pass like I used too but that’s fine with me now I just want to live as myself regardless of what others perceive me as. What helped me the most were the friends I made that didn’t question my voice or my appearance and used my correct pronouns. I feel safe and I feel seen. In honesty I might just lower my T dose hahaha I do like looking more fem but that’s just a me thing. Not everyone’s journey is gonna be total opposite of how they looked like in thier pre HRT years. You just gotta learn what makes you happy.
So long as we know what pronouns you like, theres no going wrong. Perception is just a subjective construct but words are words and they gotta be right.
I never focus on passing really i just do what i need to do on my trans woman journey what feels right transitioning takes time
I understand Ashley's viewpoint, but in my opinion the term passing is not referring to who you are or your gender identity, it is specifically the physical-social view.
I've never cared about passing. Other peoples judgments don't concern me.
I've always sort of genuinely wondered about this position, but I hear it a lot.
If Gender only even exists as a socially constructed thing, then why doesn't it matter that the society recognizes you as the thing you want to be seen as?
I would have thought the whole point in the whole thing was to be socially considered male or female or whatever it is you wanted
@@EnderSword Modern trans people are adapting to criticisms to try to make their ideology coherent. So some of they came up with this new 'I don't care' ideology to push back on 'you don't accept yourself, why should we accept you?' or 'if gender is meaningless, then why do you care so much about changing your gender?' or to justify why so many trans people do not look the gender they claim they are.
Do not try to understand modern trans people, they just don't make sense.
The passing thing is so true for me at least. I came out 7 years ago as ftm and when I did it was like the most important thing to me to pass as a cis man but now 7 years later I’m way more comfortable in the fluidity of my gender expression and I dress feminine and all that as what other people see me as doesn’t really bother me anymore
So you're not trans, you're just like everybody else.
personally, ive known im trans for so long without access to medical transition that ive completely given up on passing, and honestly i think im better off for it. granted that mindset isn't for everyone, its all well and good for me to say this because most people just assume im a very ugly lesbian, but i couldn't really give a shit either way. im secure in myself and ive never liked other people enough to care what they think of me anyway. to me passing was just a means to an end, one more stupid expectation put on me that i inexplicably had to meet in order to receive basic respect. i guess i was less tolerant of people giving me shit for not passing because i'd already gone through years of people telling me the same crap about every other aspect of my identity.
i think passing comes more naturally for other people if they weren't socially shunned for anything before being trans, in which case yeah youre suddenly at the bottom of the food chain and now everyone hates you so you're gonna do everything you can to get back to the level of respect you had before. but if you never had anyone's respect to begin with it's gonna seem like pushing a boulder up a hill. point is im used to not being a person correctly and facing the consequences of that. and honestly im willing to take any of those consequences in stride before ever trying to push a boulder up that hill again.
ive always considered passing to be a mainly safety focused thing, when i think about passing its because i just want to not be killed nothing else so yeah the concept of passing is dumb but sadly in today's world its a necessary one because there will always be people who wish me harm if i dont look a certain way
„passing“ often feels and is safer because people assume you’re Cis and the gender you want to pass as. When you are further in the transition, passing becomes less important as you become more comfortable in your new way of life and self expression. Unfortunately not passing can immediately out you as trans which can be quite dangerous at the moment. Cis people are facing safety issues too because newsflash: Trans doesn’t have a look. Anyone who looks too ambiguous is going to be targeted
"When you are further in the transition, passing becomes less important as you become more comfortable in your new way of life and self expression."
I disagree. It may be this way for some, but for a large, I'd say the majority of trans people... we just want to look, and be treated as the gender we identify as. There's a reason why most trans women seek out laser hair removal, why most trans men get top surgery.
Passing only becomes less important, because we don't need to do as much to actually achieve it. I don't have to worry about hiding my face or my hips, or binding my chest to appear masculine, i've had the surgery and the hormones to do that for me.
When you're younger preferably before the age of 25, it is much easier to pass than it is. For somebody who is over 60 or 65 years old. The benefit though, is that when you get to be 65, you can look a whole lot younger than you actually are.
I'm so fucking proud of them!!
I think it’s interesting how you said passing is more of a starting out thing. It was super important to me for a while so I dressed and acted way more masculine just so I would be perceived as male and even then I sometimes wouldn’t be but now I’m more comfortable in myself and my gender and would even consider myself a bit non-binary/gender-fluid and have longer hair, wear more feminine clothes, even act more feminine and I find I’m seen as male more than I was before but even when I’m not it doesn’t really make me uncomfortable anymore. I’ve only been transitioning for like seven years now, which holy shit feels like it’s been two, and the only thing I have left so I’m like fully comfortable is getting a hysterectomy which I’m going to a consultation for within the week. It genuinely does get easier with time and ‘passing’ becomes less important as you’re able to actually see yourself as the gender you are rather than like you’re trying to become it.
Happy for ya! There's no correct way to figure things out 🤙but of course stay safe while you do
It’s been really interesting seeing this journey. I’m glad in this day and age he has the resources to explore like this.
HRT to "figure things out" in the UK... Goddamn, wish everyone was as lucky :^)
Is it a good thing, though? I mean, I read these words and it seems dystopian almost.
Passing is for other people a lot of the time and some people look different from what they want for acceptance and safety (which is completely fine) but a lot of people when they are ready to rely on their own acceptance and live in a safe place change what they look like so they can be who they want.
I care about passing bc I don't want to be turned to Swiss cheese 😅
Yeah... I'm a trans man who passes as a short cis guy and I'm very grateful for it. I get misgendered sometimes bc I'm short and have long hair so from the back I might get a 'miss' but when i turn around its "buhubuhunlaskjdasorry, sir". I always say that in that aspect I as a trans man get it a lot easier than trans women because despite my height, testosterone did all the things it was supposed to do, voice, beard, hairy, facial structure and weight distribution. Trans women, specifically those who didn't have the opportunity of blockers don't often get that lucky ;-;
@@tylociraptor8131 forcing people through the wrong puberty is horrifying body horror…and then of course these same people judge them on the other side 😡
Sigh. It’s rough knowing I’d get to be an actual human being if not for bigots.
@@rebeccasam3434 Nobody forces you, it's just your biology, aka reality.
@@Mr_user_1000 people absolutely do force people through the wrong puberty.
Facists/perverts get off on doing it to trans people.
I have a complicated relationship with passing. Trans man-masc-nonbinary-bigender-whateverthefuck opinion here, though. I was on HRT for 5 years, from 19 to 24. I tried REALLY hard to pass, and passed as a teenage boy to the point where people were severely shocked that I was a grown ass adult who could order alcohol.
I'm not on T and haven't been on it in 2 years, and I don't pass. Especially because I was never able to get top surgery because there's multiple loops to jump through in order to even apply for insurance coverage, and I can't jump through those loops.
Honestly I kind of stopped when I got what I wanted out of T, and had an identity crisis in my 5th year of HRT, and it was just this big thing that is way too long for RUclips comments. Even with a voice deepening and adams apple I don't pass as any flavor of guy and it's upsetting but at the same time it's like, Idk, I asked for this. And it's not like I even get kindness about it from other trans people, it's like a damned if you do damned if you don't thing.
Yeah im one year on T and i kinda just stopped taking it last week because i realized im acrually NEVER going to pass as male, i have a huge chest and even with top surgery i dont see it happening. Kinda like giving up and greiving the boy i never was but whatever. Maybe i could up my T but i dont wanna be fat. And i also dont wanna go to the gym. So maybe its just not meant to be.
Yeah other trans ppl arent kind about it i agree
@@whereamihelpme T actually had the opposite effect on me; it made me lose weight, which did help with the whole passing thing because it did make me less hourglass-shaped, but like. Yeah
I'm still "out" as much as I can be (family, partner, friends) but the place I live is conservative as all hell so I don't want to take ANY legal steps to put a target on my back and that's kind of a privilege. I'd change my gender marker, name, and get top surgery if I lived in California, but that's never happening
It's like, halfway a privilege to be able to just, pretend I'm not trans, go by legal name, stop HRT, etc... I halfway agree with Finnster. It is better to pass as the binary gender that's closer to your transition goals, but at the same time, the way I would like to pass is unattainable. I want to be seen as a confusing girly guy, and as much as enbyphobes and tirfs dislike it, I really identify with the phrase "female man/boy/etc." I'm the tran that trans exclusionary homosexuals (that is their community term as far as I can recall) warn you about. The "gay fetishizing autoandrophile" as they like to put it
I've even been told by other trans guys that me not passing is a "skill issue." T is not the magical man elixir that so many people think it is. There are just people on T who still can't pass, same as people on E who can't pass. Hormones aren't the be all end all to passing, neither is clothing style
@@isthiscereallife there seems to be a lot of your mail which may vary with hormones
I’m also glad that I’ve run across a lot of people on estrogen but also testosterone sometimes literally don’t do anything else to try to pass or “transition“ or anything, but still getting benefit from it and… it’s better than when they used to make women cosplay as 1950s housewives to get access to medical care, and whatever the male equivalent to that was 🙄 (probably involved a pipe 😅)
@@rebeccasam3434 Hey, I'm really sorry, but I don't really understand what you're saying. Do you think you could rephrase it like I'm a kid or something?
Passing is a weird concept for sure, I remember really wanting it at first but these days I don't even think about it.
Maybe it's like a mix of wanting to be accepted in society with the desire to look outwardly what you see inwardly. idk if that makes sense.
But if you see yourself as a woman it might make sense to want to pass outwardly as a woman as validation for your efforts yaknow.
Personally my original goal was to reach a androgynous level but I started "passing" without ever really wanting that so I just rolled with it and I'm happy lol
Not passing is probably the only reason I never started. Only really recently came to the understanding of myself that I would have transitioned if I were young enough to feel like I could look natural, but I'm 36 now.
I guess I also started HRT to figure things out. And the way I enjoyed the changes happening to me did provide answers.
the thing about passing is it’s a concept centred on fitting the binary. a passing trans woman would have characteristics that are gender roles or stereotypes for women, long hair, long eyelashes, well kept nails, etc. this isn’t a bad thing on its own cause those things aren’t bad things, it is bad in the context that it reinforces the gender binary to say a trans person has to pass or should be passing. if you desire to be very the classic socially accepted version of a man or woman obviously go right ahead, but with the concept of passing being so prevalent it ends up forcing people to reject their more androgynous traits as an attempt to pass for societies sake
F1nn opened my eyes on a new perception on gender
I feel like i precieve you as gender fluid more than anything, but i hope you do what makes you happy.
F1nn will literally never admit it
Knitting is significantly slower than crochet if you’ve ever wanted to try either of them though.. I used to be literally so scared of trying because I thought I’d get bored but you literally black out while you’re doing it sometimes it’s absolutely amazing
Passing is the shortened version of cis-passing. So its more about being incognito than it is about actually being the gender you know you are. I agree that it is much more importanf in the earlier stages. The longer im on Testosterone the less i care about passing
Finn you would eat it up with a layered haircut
I'm so jealous of F1nn, i wish I looked feminine enough for people to see me as a woman :(
passing is for saftey.
I love your hair ❤
For me passing is more of a safety thing? When I'm out with a group of queers or going into queer spaces I dont worry about it as much. But I work in a field that gets a lot of flack when trans people are in it so I have to try to pass.
To clarify, I would try to pass as cis regardless of my gender at first but as hrt's effects started to take hold it was harder to pass as cis anything! (Mostly because I'm only a little over a year on hormones)
Finn sounds very confused and kind of led by those around him
I love her!!! ❤
I've always translated passing as undetectable.
i feel like passing and gender fluid are pretty much the same thing..... in my opinion anyway but i struggle with it. i'm 32 and just came out as bi-sexual a year and a half ago.... the first boy i had a relationship with was in 2015 but i had a girlfriend at the time and i cut him off... i miss him terribly but he was the only boy i ever found attractive. after my girlfriend (of nine years btw) left me in 01/2013 i came out a couple months later and found out about finn and it inspired me and gave me the confidence to be more feminine. now my friends tell me i definitely could pass as a female if i wanted to but i feel like i'm too old now.... plus i still enjoy being a boy. i do experience gender dysphoria from time to time though.
Passing is also a weird concept because you’ll plenty of women that don’t “pass” as women. It’s just one of those silly things.
That’s not to say that if it’s something you aim for as a personal goal then fine, but try not to let it define you or get under your skin if you don’t meet your own possibly lofty expectations.
You would 100% pass as a woman on the street, first time I saw one of your tik tok tok i thought your voice was voiced over cuz I didn't know about you haha!
Passing is basically a term for the socially dominant group perceiving you as part of that group. Be that white passing, straight passing, cis passing out something else. I can definitely understand someone feeling that shouldn't really matter and definitely shouldn't be your goal. It's perfectly fine to want to look like a woman, whatever that means to you. It's just treating cis woman like they're the goal is a bit 😬. Kind of like how there's nothing with with a black person wanting to do things that aren't stereotypically black, but a black person trying to be as white as possible to be accepted is going to carry some anti blackness.
So.....I stopped watching Finn a while ago mainly cause the person that kept donating large amounts of money wanting Finn to transition iirc was legitimately making me uncomfortable, and now i see this short. I have no clue if that person is still around but i really do hope Finn is making these choices on their own by their personal desire and they're not being influenced/convinced to do this.
Tenmuses actually went on a journey to travel the world and climb mountains and stuff about a year ago. When he left he donated a huge amount to a trans health thing. Finn has explicitly stated he isn't doing it for fame (he was already doing so well as "guy who looks like girl" so why would he change)
Finn has a whole video about his journey!
Just got my ninja 500 today. I’m in love
Im going the other way than finn with the same mindset but +2 years further along and i 100% agree with ashley.
Passing is really only something that I think is important for safety if you need to be stealth or something
Otherwise, I think it's a concept that can cause harm and is something that trans and gnc people should try to unlearn. It's honestly comparable to a beauty standard
For me passing was EVERYTHING. But since I'm a trans man, that makes a lot of sense. People treat me so much better now that I just pass without having to try.
i'm pretty binary as a trans male which is why i'm really happy to see people who are more fluid because it's inspiring to be able to be happy as you but also be perceived as multiple things to different people. like i am completely happy since i started T a little over a year and a half ago, and always felt i made the right decision as identifying as male 1 year 9 months before T. so, it is also beautiful to share experiences just being happy medically transitioning because it can be affirming regardless of how you feel about your identity! 🩵🩷🤍🩷🩵
I just discovered finns channel recently through his coming out video and I thought he was 100% a woman coming out as lesbian. The only giveaway is his voice. He looks like he's meant to be female to me just like kris tyson, even when not cross dressing.
If you're not Pasing I don't know who is
Bro left an editing note in at 10:00 lmao
Honestly - you seemed happier when you were 'pretending' and not trying to be (or pass as) a woman.
You are a beautiful person. 😊
You have been incredible and iconic for your entire 🎉 gender journey 🎉 and I wish you the best with it
he is a beautiful woman
Rose will be a beautiful woman in the end❤
for the longest time i didn’t think testosterone was fir me and my life improved tenfold when i got on it
"I don't dress for it".
Ok so a girl that doesn't wear dresses and shit. Neither do i
ur so lucky. u pass a lot better than most. ur a hottie 😍
I would have assumed that you were being perceived as a woman in public
i get read as a woman more when i dress down tbh
I don't like the term and believe of passing for many reasons. Passing also implies that afab with what could be perceived by some as having masculine features or attributes aren't feminine enough or not woman enough to "pass" as either. There is so much biological variety and it's only our shallow societal ideas and beauty standards that dictate what should or shouldn't be feminine.
If you feel like a woman, you're a woman. 💜
Bro is EARLY ON in transition? The amount of gender envy i just felt...
Yeah, it’s annoying lol. I was jealous of him when he was supposedly a cis dude 😂
As far as I can tell we’ve been on a real dose of hrt about the same length of time. Not that I don’t look better but geez
Tbh let the people be what they want and how they wont even uf they wana be any animal as long as they dont hurt anyone else and dont want to convert u just let them b as they let u b
Clothes dont make you man or woman clothes make you warm simple
finsihed product in 3yrs..no going back after that lmao
You look really good!
passing to me is an issue becauses it pushes gender stereotypes and perceived ideas of men and women and thats like reverting feminism imo
Girl, you pass so easy. You already have a sweet face
Honestly i woul transition but i am to big to pass for a woman i am 6'4" 210
real
Of course you will look as a woman and you want to become one. You will do everything what is necessary and go all the way, no doubt.