How to Choose Your Poker Game: Hold 'em vs Omaha
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- No Limit Hold ‘em (NLHE) vs. Pot Limit Omaha (PLO), which poker game type is best for you? High stakes poker pro Phil Galfond has tips for which game to play for different poker player types.
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If you’ve been wondering which poker game type to play between NL Hold‘em or PL Omaha, High stakes poker pro Phil Galfond has some specific guidance on which game to play for different player types.
No Limit Hold ‘em (NLH) and Pot Limit Omaha (PLO) each have different features that highlight different poker skills, meaning different poker player types can naturally operate better playing a specific game.
Said bluntly, different key poker skills lend themselves to performing well at the two different (but similar) poker game types.
Someone adept at hand reading might find themselves doing better in No Limit Texas Hold ‘em than Pot Limit Omaha, due to reads made early counting for less in a dynamic game like PLO.
A poker player who struggles with aggression or when facing aggressive poker players might actually do better while playing PLO vs playing NLH, for reasons Phil explains in this video.
You can always improve these important poker skills but if you already know that you are prone to tilt or that you like to punt there may be a perfect poker game type for you to play!
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if you have small hands and can't peel 4 cards, PLO might not be for you
PLO is not poker ..
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
@@YallaMiami plo is 1 of many poker formats.
God bless Israel!
@@thegarrett9690 god bless them for what? so they would commit more genocide 😬?
Or to practice more occupation on the indigenous people?
Wtf is wrong with yall. Stay on topic
I switched to PLO as i think I have an edge when the game is more complicated, against average intellects. My work is complex problem solving and I am at least above average at it. Also the player pool in PLO has more gamblers and there is a wider variance in ability. The holdem played pool has risen. from what I see.
Great job, love your videos.
Thank you!
spot on.
Gonna comment this plo low mid stakes competition is crazy soft people calling off top pair no draws
Humble much
@@kaylamorgan9406 fair amount
Having spent 20 years playing NLHE and every year or so dipping my toe in the PLO-water because it looks like great fun, before returning to NLHE with a bloodied PLO-nose, I feel like you've just confirmed what I intuitively knew. I'm much better suited to NLHE. Brilliant stuff, as always. You've probably saved me a number of PLO buy-ins in the years to come.
Ive been a online poker player for about 6 years now. I play 25 euro and 50 euro NLH. Its in euro's because of the site i prefer to play on being from Canada. My biggest leak is when i have feel like i found the whale at the table, i aggressively try to get into pots with and exploit there leaks whether its sizing tells, or being very loose and aggressive with marginal hands. In doing this i alot of the time stray away from my game by either playing looser to justify getting into pots with them or just playing reactionary poker instead my usual (farirly) solid game. Last night i was playing player who called every hand, snap called flop and turn and usually folded river unless he has nuts. What happened was i was opening like 65o in the HJ (villian to my left) and then just barrelling and watching fold but what happened is if the hand ended up multiway my strategy fell apart bc i had altered my game so much that any other player in the pot just picked me apart. Really would like some advice on how to not let this happen in the future but also still take advantage of whales before everyone else at the table takes all there money :)
Thanks for the great question!
This sounds like a form of 'entitlement tilt', which is when we feel we deserve to win because we're better than someone.
More important, it's a scarcity mindset. You're focused on this whale only having so much money to lose, so in a race to get it first, you're throwing your own money around.
If you can let yourself believe that there will be enough whales, you can be in less of a rush, and you can focus on making plays which make the most money rather than plays that take the most of HIS money.
Good luck!
@@PhilGalfond Appreciate the advice and yes that makes sense. The site i play on only offers 6 handed tables and no zoom or rush poker option (Unibet) The player pool is definitely weaker than the other bigger sites which is why i have stuck with it and been profitable. Patience isn't an issue usually when i don't see anyone playing way of line. I think because i'm kind of stuck with the people at the table more or less and i'm not good enough yet to mulltitable.yet. I definitively agree with your thoughts and am going to take them to heart. Loved this particular video i know PLO is not my game because i love certainty. Keep up with youtube its a valuable resource for anyone looking to become a better player, Cheers!
really neat that you can still give relevant advice for both games that’s different than other coaches on YT! Really cool video!
That specific plo hand if you have a draw that big most of the time its correct to try snd get it in on the flop with the last bet so you have fold equity to give ppl a chance to hero fold bottom set etc
Legend! Always making top tier content
Because one's perceived hand strength does not change much throughout the hand in NLH (less opportunities for flop play due to no limit, the various restricted ranges along the number line, the inability to improve multiple times within a hand as Phil mentioned), being able to show up with the right palate of hands in the right moments what's most important.
The decisions you make given your hand are naturally less complicated than those you are faced with in PLO. In PLO, due to the vast amount of possible hands and the pot limit curbing preflop aggression, there is less nuance in ranges and more nuance in bet sizes and equity evaluation.
PLO has more "rain man" type math one might expect when they think of math in poker, whereas NLH has more folk wisdom where there are certain good behaviors which self-reinforce. PLO's math is more about evaluating a situation on the fly, whereas NLH's math is more about constructing a strategy before you sit down.
Leak - I don’t raise enough
I tend to check call a lot
Or check raise (in the right spot)
But in multi ways I take a check call line more often than I think I should but seem to get burned every time I raise or re-raise
I do ok
Break even or like 5-10bb an hour positive player more often than loosing
But I just can’t seem to pull the trigger
Fr I had this weak flop read on this guy who turned a better fh on a nice flush board. When he xr me on the turn alarms were going off but I couldn't drop my flop read. My 1st wsop plo tourney this June. Fun game. Difficult for me to know sizes to use so I potted it probably too much. I think every no limit player should play it just to help them feel comfortable making big folds.
patiently waiting for the PLO boom. thanks for helping Phil.
Very instructive! Idea for the next video: which game fits you more - live or online. I personally struggled to beat middle stakes online for years but since started live - Im crushing even higher stakes. I thought about this and came to the conclusion that my lose agressive style fits much better in the lose passive live pools. Also very important - I had tilt and bankroll managment issues a lot when I played online. Basickly always you can play "higher" stakes. In live games ussually you cant. So you are kind of protected to not be able to break your bankroll managment during the tilt period. Also the game is much slower so you cant play too much hands during the tilt. On top of that social side makes it easier to refresh your mind. I wish someone told me all of this years ago... So I think comparison between online and live games would be very valuble.
You make great points, and I agree with those conclusions.
Thank you for the idea, and I'm glad you found your place to thrive!
Well I don’t think I’m smart enough for nl, but there’s a lot of gambler in plo so that be my game. I like the equity of the game. And there’s more pot commitment also as long as you’re hand has equity
The problem in PLO is when the degenerates or deep pocketed players turn it into preflop BINGO
You lose your skill edge because equities run so close. So instead of playing for stacks postflop as a 70% or greater favorite, you are in more 55/45 spots or 5-6 way all-ins pre with 22% equity, and variance just shoots through the roof
Agreed. I’ve seen games where a couple players or more will pot, repot, etc., preflop on every hand. They’re cranking the variance and reducing skill edge. Can be frustrating. Sometimes it may be worth it to stick around and find a spot for a massive pot. You can sometimes change the dynamic by slightly kicking things off yourself but quickly bow out and watch fireworks fly. Another strategy might be to short buy, wait for the right hand and see if you can spin it up and gamble a bit more (with their money 😉). Just a few thoughts. Would like to know what PG thinks. 🤷♂️
@@KenDavis-uo8kq Rolf Slotboom wrote strategy on short stacking
You get it in while the bigger stacks still have to face the threat of one another. Often they may push each other out postflop, so now you may have a shot to 3-5x your short stack while only having to beat one opponent.
Variance is high. You can never get bluffed out, but your opponents always get to realize their equity as you can't push them off it.
It's a decent counter in crazy games which allow you low risk for big reward
@@PokerJeezus that makes a lot of sense. I’ll have to check that out. Thanks for the tip. 👍. Where can I read that? Was it an article or part of a book?
@@KenDavis-uo8kq Rolf Slotboom wrote a book on PLO strategy
@@PokerJeezus copy. Thanks. I’ll check it out.
I love the punt option!
As always, spot on Phil.
Great video
So basically, if you have any poker skill at all, you should play NLH. If you like crapshoots, PLO's your game.
I am quite curious about the incoming AI ramifications. Bots are enough, but they are easy to beat. In PLO, Even the most observant miss things. Let's also bring 7 stud live back. Not that old, but man I miss seeing ppl not pay attention.
What i like about PLO is that even one cent two cent , 2 dollar max buy in can get you action. 10 cent NL every one plays tight and ten tables trying to squeeze out that three BB profit per 100 hands goal. It is boring to play with micro grinders.
Quality content, Phil.
What about intuition?
Bruh when can we get the Run it Once apparel?
I actually think PLO is deeper but simpler than NLH. Plus the player pool is weak so its def my game of choice
I think this is a decent bluff but I don't get the overbet sizing? if the AJ player here is good enough to come to the conclusion "I'm at the top of my range and can't fold" then he should be fairly inelastic to the bet sizing. I need the caller here to justify why he thinks an overbet is better than a pot sized bet here.
You are awesome phil..❤ you know that right 👍🏻
Hi Phil, we're did you purchase your tshirt from , it's so difficult to find classy poker wear , lots of "all in " and " poker in the rear " doesn't cut it for me , cheers in advance ♠️♦️♣️♥️
It's merch from my training site, Run It Once :)
Yeah i knew all ready that i am better texas player , I read hands
Phil, I am a lazy player. If I were to start from zero at poker and my goal were to be a successful poker player (defined as minimum win rate / EV+ at the lowest stakes in the local casino), what game would take me less hours of study and practice?
Holdem has much more intuitive study tools bc the game as far as math goes is simpler. Holdem is easier to learn at a basic level
You should probably switch to OFC if you are impatient and want to play more hands.
Thanks
what about NLO8?
When is it time to slow down after not connecting with the board in a PLO hand with AAxx or KKxx? (especially oop)
You 3bet and opponent(s) flat pre. This massive leak needs plugging
you want to continue blasting the flop on very disconnected boards and on paired boards, or if you flop a nfd. Otherwise you can check/fold or make a small bet that folds to a raise, or if they check back the flop you can start blasting again if the turn is a brick. remember your side cards are vwry important too in terms of blockers and extra equity. you dont have to 3 bet with aces every time if you have shit side cards and youre out of position or it looks like its gonna play heads up post flop anyway. (but in still do 3 bet the aces like 90%+ probably)
there are gonna be times where it goes check/check on every street (postflop) and you win at showdown with your aces and theres nothing wrong with that
Plo 5 ard doul board the best
5 card double board
What do you like about it?
@@PhilGalfond people do not get that they need a lock on one board and potential on another at least. The same concept as flopping the nuts in PLO without a redraw…
Hi Phil! Thanks a lot for the video, top content as always!
I am a regular live NL 5/5-5/10 player and I've spend a lot of time studying and perfecting my math and hand and tell reading skills. However, as far as I know the edge one can have in PLO is significantly higher than in NLH so sometimes I think of whether I should transit to PLO. But then I feel like it's a completely new games with a lot of different charts, with a lot of different concepts and it feels like completely new game and it kind of scares me away as I don't want all my experience and skill in NLH just be trashed, it feels like just starting over. Is there anything you could suggest for me to do? Should I stick to NLH when I am already an above average player or should I dive into PLO and try starting over to see if I can find myself there?
Thanks a lot in advance!
It's not a completely new game. The spots are different and the pace is different, but the fundamentals still apply in the same way. All your math is still going to be relevant, you just need to account for more permutations of the gamestate.
@@erikperez8774 Thanks a lot for your opinion, really appreciated! I am good at NLH and I dominate most home games and low stakes casino games (up to 2/5), but feel like due to my ability to put in effort to study and perfect my game, PLO can also become quite profitable, but for now, my game of choice is NLH as I have put in way too many hours
If you are comfortable with _uncertainty_ play deuce to seven no limit.
my bankroll is up to 3k from $150 playing PLO25
This video was great Phil! I would love to see you do a comparison between NLH, PLO and mixed games, like general 8-game.
I myself have been a small to midstakes winning player for 15years, but specifically in small field 8-game tournaments (and Horse and stud games) online. But unfortunately there are no mixed games running live in my country (Sweden). Its only been a good side income for me, apart from one year playing full time.
But when i play the same stakes in straight NLH or PLO i think im about a break even player. Perhaps mixed just has a weaker player pool, but there is also something else to it. In mixed I love the meta-aspect of exploiting players different tendencies in different games. It suits my personality somehow. And it feels in a sense a little bit more like live poker, and like poker was back in the day 15years ago. When exploits rather than balance and GTO was at the forefront. And I therefore enjoy so much more.
I would love it if you could bring some of your thoughts about the personality type suited for mixed games 😊
Thanks again for a splendid poker channel!
Right now I think I'm more the Skat player 😂
If you are impatient, the shorthanded SNGs might be the game for you :D (source: I can't beat NL 10 zoom but have a big edge up to at least 25€ buy-in turbos or hypers in various SNG formats).
good video
Phil doing Gods work by trying to convince all the fish to transition to PLO and sweeten up the player pool 😂
PLOs greatest trick is convincing people its more complicated because it has 4 cards.
One small correction. It isn't 'exponential' growth. It would actually be linear growth as the number of combinations of cards is expressed as an arithmetic function as opposed to a geometric function. But love the content.
I guess the impatient player should play Short Deck 6-handed 😅
I'm more of a courchevel player.
Let's face it, Omaha is little more than Hold 'Em with 4 cards.
I lost my whole bankroll (i think it was 129 buy ins) playing a non limit 5plo online, we both turned the nut with flush draw redraws, guess what? He rivered the nut flush ahainst me we went all in on turn,i never touch poker since then
Since years I am saying that PLO is a less aggressive game than NL, ppl always laughed at me. Now I have finally testimony 😂 great job Phil!
Happy to help! 😃
“If you are new to playing poker but have a lot of money and only want to play high stakes, PLO is right for you” -Phil Galfond (probably)
Heads up PLO!
@@PhilGalfond Phil, I am curious about what do you think is the difference in variance between HU PLO and 6max PLO - (assuming you play HU against players slightly or a lot worse than you ) ?
Please keep making these videos to encourage the NL players to come over to the PLO game
So strange, they say PLO is for action junkies yet AA is the only hand they 3bet and everything else they just chase
@@ticenits1926 exactly I enjoy it because those players hands are face up with that bet.
@@wesyoung9150 But face up with just 2 cards . The other 2 is mystery
The average PLO Player is just a lot worse than the average NLH player
You should do this for MTT vs Cash Game
Yes second this
I think this is a good point actually... I've been a PLO cash player for years, and now I find that perhaps I should really invest time in learning PLO tournament strategy as I generally have very good stamina and also can do better than most people (I think) in adapting to additional layers of complexity - ICM considerations, quickly having some sort of reads on opponents, etc (not that I have any particular knowledge in those areas, just that if I'm up against someone who also is not familiar with it I'll do better than most)... Still, it feels like a substantially new, or augmented, skillset, and I wonder if trying to transition is worth it (or indeed what is the best way to learn PLO tournament strategy these days, but this is a more specific topic I guess...)
Thank you very much for the high-quality educational video! I would love to see the same analysis for Short Deck (6+ Holdem) compared to PLO
game selecting is my #1 criteria to choose what to play. i live in vegas, play small to mid stakes and have found about 10 players that, no0 matter what they are playing...deal me in!!!
Always felt like players tend to overvalue 2nd-4th nuts in PLO and due to these situations arising much more than in NLH, having a little more discipline when on the wrong side of things tends to be a bit more profitable long term, at least in the small/micro stakes
This is a great video. Broken down with Phil's signature charm.
Fear of Big Pots - Since PLO often ends up multiway even in single and 3 bet pots it can become intimidating, especially with the standard bet and raise being pot in most "small-mid" stakes games. In NL, multiway raised pots are less frequent and standard betting patterns are often smaller C-bets and also checking behind has less chance to mess up a leading hand.
You missed to mention that this channel is underrated! Best poker content on YT!
Top 5 idea: Top 5 Bluffing spots most people miss
Thanks for the video. You have confirmed why I only play PLO.
Holdem is saturated with bots/solver so omaha is more for humans😂.The balence is play Horse.
I think plo is more profitable because it’s more likely your opponent will make a mistake if they are a rec
How to draw gamblers into PLO
What type of player did you miss? I'm a broke player. What's the best game for me? 😅
Freerolls! 😄
the one cent two cent game
Be a dealer
Thank you phil much appreciate the wisdom 👊
You’re very welcome!
Phil Goatfond
Whats the best game for missing flush draws? Thats what I'm good at
HAHAHA!!! Thx a lot! didn't expect that one. That helps 😘
Maybe you can measure complexity by looking at how many different possible hands there are with the board and your hole cards. NLH complexity= 7C5= 21
PLO complexity= 5C3 x 4C2= 10 x 6=60.
This will underestimate the gap in complexity though cuz not every permutation within the 7C5 is as game changing as the permutations in PLO. PLO you have more hidden cards which people can't see
Great video. Do you have much experience playing PLO8 (or BigO, or any other hi-lo variants), or do you keep strictly to standard PLO? Do you see adding the low component further exponentially compounds the complexity of the game in terms of hand reads, equity evaluation, etc, or is it a lower impact than the switch from NLH to PLO?
Love your opinions at both games, thank you Phil!
Thanks Phil, I am curious about what do you think is the difference in variance between HU PLO and 6max PLO
I feel the big picture is missing here. NLHE, you play with 2 cards, it is more about preflop and preflop ranges. Much more simple game. I feel you can make steady gains, but it is difficult to outplay your opponent, since the 2 cards game might also be simple for you opponents.
PLO is much more complicated due the 4 or 5 cards. However, your edge might be bigger than the increase of variance. You can crush your opponent more I feel like. However, much more complicated. You have to be a robot that thinks very fast all the time, which not everybody can do.
"if you're a player who struggles to bluff, well... you should work on that" 😅
add svitten to the choices
Can you explain why you've chosen to specialize in PLO? And maybe a little rundown of what that journey's been like?
Afaik most of the high stakes games between 2010-2017 or so were in PLO. People thought NLHE was solved and they wanted to have a bigger edge against the field. I remember that in like 2013 or so there was almost no NLHE action in the nosebleeds. That is when Doug Polk did really well. When he beat sauce in that match sauce was barely playing NLHE and was almost strictly a PLO player himself.
with 6 card DB you get the best from both worlds 😊
Have you tried?
Can’t say that I have 🙂
I have a really hard time bluffing in NLH, it’s my biggest weakness, can you do a video on when people should bluff in NLH. Otherwise, I think I have a solid, fundamental approach to the game.
I think you should at least be bluffing with your draws . The better draw u have u can make multiple barrels with it
Agree with other comment- start with semi bluffing. Work on hand reading.
I find myself so fascinated by PLO even though I've yet to play a single hand. The constant changes in equity and runouts gives this sense of flux almost like an embodiment of the universe's laws of variance and change :D
You mention hand reading; since the nuts change so much in PLO would you agree that someone who is strong in sort retroactive hand reading, meaning like being able to quickly ascertain whether an opponent who is now trying to rep certain combos on the river would have played those the way that he did on earlier streets. In other words quickly finding inconsistencies in the "story". Here you seem to suggest that this skill/ability is more important in NL but just from watching you play PLO I would say it's actually one of your main strengths which you put to good use. Granted, it's presumably extremely useful in both formats just seems to me it would lend itself even more to PLO.
Regardless, would love to hear your thoughts!
The challenge with PLO is that it’s harder to nail down specific 4-card hands someone might have.
There are absolutely opportunities for hand reading in PLO, but it is a tougher proposition!
I like to gamble, have fun and play big pots. PLO for me.
What about 5card plo? Thus days 5 cards plo is papular