Well said. I think duolingo was way better in Swedish (my native language) because it was a real person speaking and what I saw felt pretty decent, nothing felt super duper weird or anything so I think duolingo is better at European languages especially Spanish than it is in Asian languages but I see it more as a phone game that exercises what I already know from other resources rather than a full on study course.
Duolingo's Japanese course is an interesting example of "disimprovement". Instead of improving the actual lessons, they added cartoonish voices, animations etc. to make the cartoon characters more interesting. Their courses for European languages are far better though.
I did every Pimsleur lesson I did level 1 and level 2 Barron's Diplomatic Japanese I memorized every BYKI Japanese flashcard I made my own app to teach myself kana and kanji... well... I eventually burned out, the way I tried to teach myself Kanji was beyond ridiculous, although, I did, at the very least, teach myself how to identify several hundred symbols which is not WHOLLY useless Despite all of this, my comprehension of actual spoken Japanese was near absolute zero... even a simple or short phrase in anime, my brain couldn't process Just a few months of doing Yuta's course, and it is has improved dramatically I still feel like I could benefit from some artificial drills for verb conjugations, and I may seek those out somewhere else, but as for understanding what other people are saying, I'm seeing progress for the first time in my life
I use Duolingo Japanese to memorise, especially kanji and vocabulary items. These days I have a hard time memorising from books. The constant repetition with Duolingo doesn't annoy me and help me fix things. Grammar is badly explained and I kind of do the sentences without trying to memorise those structures.
I have to agree with this. I think for some languages, Duolingo might work better, but there are a lot of nuances in Japanese that these apps skip. Things that even I pick up on, as someone who studied it in college for 4 semesters 13 years ago.
I have to agree, I've found it tries to rush you through as well. Already trying to get me onto Katakana without making sure I've got hiragana down so am currently just recycling tests (damn that streak feature) until I feel comfortable enough to move on. Amusingly I've found the game Hiragana Battle far more useful in terms of remembering the characters than Duolingo's approach.
Duolingo is great for on-the-go or just a 5-15 minute session. It also introduces new vocabulary and words in nicely packaged and paced-out categories. You can say there are other apps or services that are the same or better, but Duolingo is just easy to use and is convenient.
@@bobfranklin2572 Incomplete doesn't mean bad either. What Duolingo lacks is theory and context. If you got those covered with other material, it might be handy. But yeah, it's usually not a good idea to only rely on that app
Duolingo is like that moment when you enter a cold pool and stay where the floor is high until your body gets used to the water temperature. You'll only wet your legs at best and maybe you'll get bored. Some people might be ok with just that. But when you're ready you'll probably want to go further until you can actually swim or even dive if you want.
I wish there was an app that just teaches vocabulary in a convenient way. My favorite parts of duo are early on when all they do is show you a word and an image. I feel like id have a easier time just reading allot of vocabulary that say the direct translation or what the word means. Then id just listen to real japanese speakers and shows and be able to understand what is being said by the words and then learn grammar by seeing and hearing instead. Make the app yuta!
The problem with learning vocabulary by itself is that you don't hear how the words are actually used in context. It's all very well learning that X means Y, but unless you know the contexts in which X is used, you are likely to use it incorrectly. The best way to learn vocabulary is via full sentences that contain that vocabulary. That way, you get to hear how the words are actually used.
@@omp199 not everyones learns the same way. Personally I find it more useful to know words. Regardless of context. When the word that you previously worked on learning through some repetition shows up in a sentence you it kinda clicks and you actually recognize it. Its like when you see a particular car in red and suddenly you see it everywhere where otherwise you don’t even notice it. Essentially it works as a highlight that you kinda go “oh I know that word!” And helps you remember the sentence better, get an idea on where it goes in the sentence and potentially how its used the more you hear it at different times. Thats how it has been for me. Through duo lingo, the more words I learn, the more I find myself noticing the words in shows, comments and youtube videos and can generally get the idea of what may be talked about. I then end up looking for other words within the sentence and google it to understand better, encouraging me to learn and research more.
I all but mastered Hiragana and Katakana in just a couple weeks with Duolingo, so I'll say that it's brilliant for those specific fundamentals. :) My 日本語 journey is only two years long. You've been with me since the beginning and I've never heard you say anything unnatural, Yuta-sensei. :)
@@urdreamyplanet5414 あの…私？😁 ? Hehehe, besides Duolingo (which I actually haven't used for some time now), I mostly just consume lots and lots of content in Japanese. Along with Yuta-sensei, I also enjoy Miku Real Japanese, Japanese Ammo with Misa, and Onomappu to name a few. Just try to expose yourself to as much native speaking as you can and practice, practice, practice. :) がんばって友達❣ 👋😁👍
Oh! And watch the news! ruclips.net/video/coYw-eVU0Ks/видео.html It's very difficult to follow and, at least for now...they talk a lot about Ukraine situation, which is important, but also sad.
Duolingo is really great specifically for learning to read hiragana and katakana. But yeah they really need to at least get native speakers to record the audio.
@@bobfranklin2572 I asked you a question. How can I be "right" when I was asking a question? Why have you not answered my question? Your bizarre, inappropriate, and spectacularly unhelpful replies to a perfectly straightforward enquiry tell me all that I need to know about your understanding of language and its use as a tool for interpersonal communication. Namely, that you are a total fail.
It doesn't sound more unnatural to speak with a higher Latin count than Germanic count within your vernacular. Often times a higher Latin count is perceived as more intelligent sounding, this being oddly engrained from class based periods. "real life English" is also entirely regional and family based. Depending on where you live in the USA for example, will generally equate to the % off from correct pronunciation of the language. There are a lot of slangs that are generational, regional, or even culture based. Though, if you're saying that scholars in Japan don't even speak like textbooks, then you have completely valid point. Japanese is also much more complicated than English ultimately. We have a lot of slangs, accents, and pronunciations with a general rule to state the subject within our sentence structure. Nothing contextual or tonal based to comprehend.
I tried the option for japanese speakers to learn English in duolingo for fun. When, it asked me to translate "Hello, a coffee, please" into japanese. So I select the blocks to make the sentence "こんにちは1つコーヒーください" and it was marked wrong by the app, suggesting "こんにちはコーヒーを1つください". Is what I wrote myself textbook japanese or is the app wrong?
I've been doing Japanese Duolingo since late 2019. I think it does a very well job teaching the most basic things like the characters and basic sentence structure. but in the later levels it sucks at flexibility in correct translations, doesn't teach you new grammar (and colloquial speech in general) and introduces random, hardly ever seen phrases that just throw you in a loop. Because of that and the voices I've decided to cancel my subscription with them
I think Duolingo is pretty good for the short practices and just getting a new word here and there, but I wouldn't reccomend only counting on one app to teach you a whole language. It's obviously not enough. Using different sources will always give more accuracy, so if you're using Duo you don't have to just stop using it, you can add more to your teaching process by listening to japanese podcasts (even if you don't understand) and watching japanese media while learning from different apps and creators if you're not in the position to take courses. Of course, everyone's learning process is different.
Personally I've enjoyed using duolingo, only for learning hiragana and katakana. But turned off the listening exercises and without audio. The like normal course is really annoying as it only really teaches translations, and will mark sentences as being wrong even if the meaning is coming across.
People usually recommend a book called "Minna no Nihongo". You might want to learn hiragana and katakana first. I've heard the book uses a lot of keigo though (at least at the beggining) so not sure if that might be a turn off for you, but at least it might help you learn to get the basics done.
The way you use the word "textbook" as if every textbook (teaching method through standardized instruction) teaches incorrect Japanese is unhelpful. Textbooks are great for instilling a fundamental understanding of grammar which allows for faster and more complete learning. Focusing on an approach that solely relys on native input is like memorizing one off equations vs generalized formulas. There is a reason even native speakers get educated in their own language with text books through all of their education. Even if sometimes the most natural response isn't the most grammatically correct one, standard grammar allows for a consistent baseline and reference point. This is not to even mention how some expressions sound unnatural to some native speakers vs others depending on their background. Obviously if you never start consuming native input, you are going to have a problem though, lol. ps. I'm not defending Duolingo, I'm arguing against your stance on learning materials.
Except that's not what I'm saying as I've always emphasised the importance of learning fundamental grammatical concepts > Focusing on an approach that solely relys on native input is like memorizing one off equations vs generalized formulas. This is absolutely NOT the kind of approach I recommend.
@@yutasroom7704 Noted. I've been watching your videos for years and I got that impression from the way you promote your email group as well as the focus of your argument against textbooks in the majority of your videos. If I misunderstood, my apologies. With that said, it is unclear to me as to what role you believe textbooks (if any) play in language learning. To clarify, I'm not an angry commenter, but an opinionated fan, lol.
@@ProtagonistOfficial Fair enough, I'll try to clarify that point in my future videos. In my lessons, I actually spend a lot of time explaining important grammatical concepts using real-life Japanese. Thanks for sharing your opinions!
@@yutasroom7704 Thanks for replying and apologies if I came off as rude. It can be difficult to convey tone properly over text. I last remember checking out your email group in 2015 (how is that 7 years ago, damn). I may be wrong about that but it sounds right, haha. With that said I'm certainly not criticizing your email group. Cheers!
Well said. I think duolingo was way better in Swedish (my native language) because it was a real person speaking and what I saw felt pretty decent, nothing felt super duper weird or anything so I think duolingo is better at European languages especially Spanish than it is in Asian languages but I see it more as a phone game that exercises what I already know from other resources rather than a full on study course.
Duolingo's Japanese course is an interesting example of "disimprovement". Instead of improving the actual lessons, they added cartoonish voices, animations etc. to make the cartoon characters more interesting. Their courses for European languages are far better though.
I did every Pimsleur lesson
I did level 1 and level 2 Barron's Diplomatic Japanese
I memorized every BYKI Japanese flashcard
I made my own app to teach myself kana and kanji... well... I eventually burned out, the way I tried to teach myself Kanji was beyond ridiculous, although, I did, at the very least, teach myself how to identify several hundred symbols which is not WHOLLY useless
Despite all of this, my comprehension of actual spoken Japanese was near absolute zero... even a simple or short phrase in anime, my brain couldn't process
Just a few months of doing Yuta's course, and it is has improved dramatically
I still feel like I could benefit from some artificial drills for verb conjugations, and I may seek those out somewhere else, but as for understanding what other people are saying, I'm seeing progress for the first time in my life
I use Duolingo Japanese to memorise, especially kanji and vocabulary items.
These days I have a hard time memorising from books. The constant repetition with Duolingo doesn't annoy me and help me fix things.
Grammar is badly explained and I kind of do the sentences without trying to memorise those structures.
I have to agree with this. I think for some languages, Duolingo might work better, but there are a lot of nuances in Japanese that these apps skip. Things that even I pick up on, as someone who studied it in college for 4 semesters 13 years ago.
I have to agree, I've found it tries to rush you through as well. Already trying to get me onto Katakana without making sure I've got hiragana down so am currently just recycling tests (damn that streak feature) until I feel comfortable enough to move on.
Amusingly I've found the game Hiragana Battle far more useful in terms of remembering the characters than Duolingo's approach.
Duolingo is great for on-the-go or just a 5-15 minute session. It also introduces new vocabulary and words in nicely packaged and paced-out categories. You can say there are other apps or services that are the same or better, but Duolingo is just easy to use and is convenient.
Easy to use and convenient doesn't mean good.
@@bobfranklin2572 Incomplete doesn't mean bad either. What Duolingo lacks is theory and context. If you got those covered with other material, it might be handy. But yeah, it's usually not a good idea to only rely on that app
@@MaverickTsuki Yess, I agree! Well said.
Possibly better title: Would I Recommend Duolingo (as a professional Japanese teacher) 😅
I like it for sentence structure which is a weak point of mine sometimes. But I agree it’s got a lot of weaknesses.
Duolingo is like that moment when you enter a cold pool and stay where the floor is high until your body gets used to the water temperature. You'll only wet your legs at best and maybe you'll get bored. Some people might be ok with just that. But when you're ready you'll probably want to go further until you can actually swim or even dive if you want.
Love your videos, Yuta!
I wish there was an app that just teaches vocabulary in a convenient way. My favorite parts of duo are early on when all they do is show you a word and an image. I feel like id have a easier time just reading allot of vocabulary that say the direct translation or what the word means.
Then id just listen to real japanese speakers and shows and be able to understand what is being said by the words and then learn grammar by seeing and hearing instead.
Make the app yuta!
The problem with learning vocabulary by itself is that you don't hear how the words are actually used in context. It's all very well learning that X means Y, but unless you know the contexts in which X is used, you are likely to use it incorrectly. The best way to learn vocabulary is via full sentences that contain that vocabulary. That way, you get to hear how the words are actually used.
@@omp199 not everyones learns the same way. Personally I find it more useful to know words. Regardless of context. When the word that you previously worked on learning through some repetition shows up in a sentence you it kinda clicks and you actually recognize it.
Its like when you see a particular car in red and suddenly you see it everywhere where otherwise you don’t even notice it. Essentially it works as a highlight that you kinda go “oh I know that word!” And helps you remember the sentence better, get an idea on where it goes in the sentence and potentially how its used the more you hear it at different times.
Thats how it has been for me.
Through duo lingo, the more words I learn, the more I find myself noticing the words in shows, comments and youtube videos and can generally get the idea of what may be talked about. I then end up looking for other words within the sentence and google it to understand better, encouraging me to learn and research more.
@@JustGromski That makes sense. Thank you for explaining your perspective.
The Duolingo teaching concept is great, their problem is content quality. The best course from my experience is French, followed by Spanish.
I all but mastered Hiragana and Katakana in just a couple weeks with Duolingo, so I'll say that it's brilliant for those specific fundamentals. :)
My 日本語 journey is only two years long. You've been with me since the beginning and I've never heard you say anything unnatural, Yuta-sensei. :)
P.S. sorry I flaked out on the email group, haha すみませ〜ん！ 😅
Can I know where did you learn Japanese this far
@@urdreamyplanet5414 あの…私？😁 ? Hehehe, besides Duolingo (which I actually haven't used for some time now), I mostly just consume lots and lots of content in Japanese. Along with Yuta-sensei, I also enjoy Miku Real Japanese, Japanese Ammo with Misa, and Onomappu to name a few. Just try to expose yourself to as much native speaking as you can and practice, practice, practice. :) がんばって友達❣ 👋😁👍
Oh! And watch the news! ruclips.net/video/coYw-eVU0Ks/видео.html
It's very difficult to follow and, at least for now...they talk a lot about Ukraine situation, which is important, but also sad.
@@IzZyRaWr Aa, thank youu
I use Duolingo because it is free. I don't have the money to be paying for it.
I’m going to finish it cause I think it’s fun and I’m using plenty of other recourses aswell
I’m so glad I found this channel lol
Duolingo is really great specifically for learning to read hiragana and katakana. But yeah they really need to at least get native speakers to record the audio.
I only want to learn hiragana and katakana from duolingo and I think it's working
Why use Duolingo when you can use Yuta?
My goal is to just be able to understand it and pick up on correct sentences later on and if needed I'll use my unnatural japanese
That is true though I use the app.
The simple fact it has you translating English into Japanese and vise-versa, makes it an instant fail.
Why? How else is it supposed to know whether you have understood what something means?
@@omp199 bruh.
@@bobfranklin2572 Well?
@@omp199 no no you're right. Translate in your head. Sorry bossman.
@@bobfranklin2572 I asked you a question. How can I be "right" when I was asking a question? Why have you not answered my question?
Your bizarre, inappropriate, and spectacularly unhelpful replies to a perfectly straightforward enquiry tell me all that I need to know about your understanding of language and its use as a tool for interpersonal communication. Namely, that you are a total fail.
So duolingo teaches broken Japanese basically well at least its understandable enough I suppose やれやれだぜ
On the internet, can I speak to someone (e.g. Streamer) without using 敬語, even though I don't know them? Or should I stick to it?
Duolingo also kidnapped my family because I didn’t do my Chinese lesson for one day
It doesn't sound more unnatural to speak with a higher Latin count than Germanic count within your vernacular. Often times a higher Latin count is perceived as more intelligent sounding, this being oddly engrained from class based periods. "real life English" is also entirely regional and family based. Depending on where you live in the USA for example, will generally equate to the % off from correct pronunciation of the language. There are a lot of slangs that are generational, regional, or even culture based. Though, if you're saying that scholars in Japan don't even speak like textbooks, then you have completely valid point. Japanese is also much more complicated than English ultimately. We have a lot of slangs, accents, and pronunciations with a general rule to state the subject within our sentence structure. Nothing contextual or tonal based to comprehend.
Yep, scholars in Japan definitely don't speak like textbooks for language learners.
I tried the option for japanese speakers to learn English in duolingo for fun. When, it asked me to translate "Hello, a coffee, please" into japanese. So I select the blocks to make the sentence "こんにちは1つコーヒーください" and it was marked wrong by the app, suggesting "こんにちはコーヒーを1つください". Is what I wrote myself textbook japanese or is the app wrong?
I am a native Japanese speaker, and your answer is no problem. It should be another correct answer.
@@tanakahiroki thank you
I've been doing Japanese Duolingo since late 2019.
I think it does a very well job teaching the most basic things like the characters and basic sentence structure. but in the later levels it sucks at flexibility in correct translations, doesn't teach you new grammar (and colloquial speech in general) and introduces random, hardly ever seen phrases that just throw you in a loop. Because of that and the voices I've decided to cancel my subscription with them
I think Duolingo is pretty good for the short practices and just getting a new word here and there, but I wouldn't reccomend only counting on one app to teach you a whole language. It's obviously not enough.
Using different sources will always give more accuracy, so if you're using Duo you don't have to just stop using it, you can add more to your teaching process by listening to japanese podcasts (even if you don't understand) and watching japanese media while learning from different apps and creators if you're not in the position to take courses.
Of course, everyone's learning process is different.
I don't know, it seems easy for me to change my speaking. Im not sure tho.
Personally I've enjoyed using duolingo, only for learning hiragana and katakana. But turned off the listening exercises and without audio. The like normal course is really annoying as it only really teaches translations, and will mark sentences as being wrong even if the meaning is coming across.
What would you suggest as a cheap or free way of learning by yourself? Which apps, books or programs would you start with?
People usually recommend a book called "Minna no Nihongo". You might want to learn hiragana and katakana first. I've heard the book uses a lot of keigo though (at least at the beggining) so not sure if that might be a turn off for you, but at least it might help you learn to get the basics done.
@@MaverickTsuki Thanks Maverick, I would check out the book and see if it suits me.
He would suggest that you click the link and subscribe to his e-mail group, Japanese with Yuta.
Just immerse.
@@omp199 I did that but It seems that the website does not like my email. address, I search for Yota and Japanese but nothing of his show up.
Don't they have native speakers now?
2:16 I've seen this happen in real life, with both English and Japanese, and it absolutely infuriates me
Spanish or Vanish
Duolingo is pretty bad.
just for some languages, of course including Japanese [].
What would you recommend for learning online?
He would recommend that you click the link and subscribe to his e-mail group, Japanese with Yuta.
@@omp199 thank you
@@noahnas1587 You are most welcome.
The way you use the word "textbook" as if every textbook (teaching method through standardized instruction) teaches incorrect Japanese is unhelpful. Textbooks are great for instilling a fundamental understanding of grammar which allows for faster and more complete learning. Focusing on an approach that solely relys on native input is like memorizing one off equations vs generalized formulas. There is a reason even native speakers get educated in their own language with text books through all of their education. Even if sometimes the most natural response isn't the most grammatically correct one, standard grammar allows for a consistent baseline and reference point. This is not to even mention how some expressions sound unnatural to some native speakers vs others depending on their background. Obviously if you never start consuming native input, you are going to have a problem though, lol.
ps. I'm not defending Duolingo, I'm arguing against your stance on learning materials.
Except that's not what I'm saying as I've always emphasised the importance of learning fundamental grammatical concepts
> Focusing on an approach that solely relys on native input is like memorizing one off equations vs generalized formulas.
This is absolutely NOT the kind of approach I recommend.
@@yutasroom7704 Noted. I've been watching your videos for years and I got that impression from the way you promote your email group as well as the focus of your argument against textbooks in the majority of your videos. If I misunderstood, my apologies. With that said, it is unclear to me as to what role you believe textbooks (if any) play in language learning.
To clarify, I'm not an angry commenter, but an opinionated fan, lol.
@@ProtagonistOfficial Fair enough, I'll try to clarify that point in my future videos. In my lessons, I actually spend a lot of time explaining important grammatical concepts using real-life Japanese. Thanks for sharing your opinions!
@@yutasroom7704 Thanks for replying and apologies if I came off as rude. It can be difficult to convey tone properly over text. I last remember checking out your email group in 2015 (how is that 7 years ago, damn). I may be wrong about that but it sounds right, haha. With that said I'm certainly not criticizing your email group. Cheers!
Just get the Human Japanese apps and be done with it.