Who's to Blame for the Tampa Bay Rays Stadium Fiasco?
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024
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The issues surrounding the Tampa Bay Rays and their stadium woes highlight the worst things about MLB at present. The most recent plot twist in the Rays stadium saga came when the Rays sent a strongly worded letter to Pinellas County Commission threatening to derail the project entirely if bonds weren’t approved. The commission didn’t take too kindly to that, considering they are still dealing with the fallout from two hurricanes. The bond vote was pushed back until next month, and all that now hovers over the entire situation is a shame.
Rays ownership won’t come out and say they are committed to the Tampa Bay market, county commissioners are peeved about which minor league stadium the team is playing at, and newly elected politicians want to upend things so their mug can be plastered all over the local news. Fans and taxpayers are being dragged through the mud with no ability to have any say in the matter. Now there is chatter about the Tampa Bay Rays relocation.
Rays ownership of course, opted to escalate the situation several times. Instead of reading the room and taking into account the fact that stadium funding is probably not an important consideration given the clean up efforts the hurricane-ravaged area faces, they plow ahead with no subtlety.
On the other side of the equation is the Pinellas County commission led by Chris Latvala. They don't seem to care about the stadium, only what's in it for them.
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As someone who lives near this area, hurricane relief is still not close to being done, I have been rays fan for all my life but this is my limit with Stu who has never done anything but make threats, the deal was always bad for the city and the fact your demanding money when your teams worth around a billion and all while at this time ???? Many of my coworkers have lost their houses but your worried about your new basically free stadium
The new stadium has never made sense. Build next door to the existing stadium which everyone complains is in the wrong place. Spend 55 million to repair it and then knock it down in two years. Expect taxpayers to pay 312 million for bonds too to build the new stadium.
As someone who lives in Pinellas county and owns many properties in Pinellas county put this on a referendum it would lose by 90%. no municipality should be paying for billionaires businesses. Tech data is worth 35 billion we are not building them a facility.
Then u lose out on your team and tourism amd crime cam be affected
If Pinellas County is being that petty about the Rays playing in Hillsborough County (Tampa), then maybe the problem is in Pinellas and their provincial arrogance. Then again, Florida in general (save for maybe Miami-Dade County) have been historically hesitant to publicly fund sports venues, especially at the state level and that mentality pre-dates Ron DeSantis' term as governor.
Florida in general is such a mess. What a failed state
The Rays playing in Tampa isn't the reason. It's the Rays, not the County, that's arrogant and them choosing to play in Tampa is an example of that. That follows their refusal to name the team St Petersburg Rays despite the parks - old and new - being in St Pete and the huge financial commitment the city makes.
@@bradkay But they play on the Tampa Bay. Maybe not in the city itself but still a city that is on the bay and in the same region (across the bridge)
@@CreightonRabs ruclips.net/video/UZCMy5rJ-ho/видео.htmlsi=w7IevxMv2ls5aH3Y
@@matthewwelsh294 NEWSFLASH Florida is where people of FAILED STATES like California MOVE TOO to escape Communism, same with the Cubans, Haitians, PeutoRicans, etc. FL is winning because our government doesn't steal our money via taxes for VANITY projects ; even the Rays new stadium was going to be paid for by tourism funds, which now must be diverted back to the beaches after the destruction from Helene
But...But...The Rays are "Here to Stay". You mean we were lied to? Shocking.
There’s only one person to blame in all this and that’s Stu
Only the, Redsox, Yankees and Cubbies are staying put. Every other team is disloyal, like the As.
@@sarahlachman1349 The Rays are not moving. There will be a new Rays owner in Tampa and the Ybor stadium deal will get done.
MLB should just contract the A's and Rays.
11:10 Just wait until July when it's 96 degrees with 95% humidity and 90% chance of mini tropical storm at 3pm.
The Rays move to Nashville opens the door for an expansion franchise in Charlotte NC
Maybe Pinellas County (and Clark County, NV) has come to the realization that Rays owner Stuart Sternberg (and A's owner John Fisher) cannot obtain $1+ billion dollar financing for their end of the stadium deals without giving up both majority ownership and managerial control. And by that, I mean give it up at a heavy discount to current team values. Luckily, MLB commish Rob Manfred has a way out of this that Bud Selig couldn't come close to doing: FOLD both the A's and the Rays, indemnify both Sternberg and Fisher for their original purchase prices of their teams (dates back to 2005-2007), work with MLBPA to increase rosters from 25 to 27, and hold a Dispersal Draft for the A's and Ray's players. Bet that they could get this done by this time next year.
lol this would be too good to be true
Major league baseball has already said the rays are not leaving the area
ROFLMAO, you mean former commissioner Crud Selig' s contraction BS? Lord, what are drinking or smoking?! MLB wants to expand beyond 30 teams, Manfraud himself has publicly stated this
Being a Rays fan sucks. No stability and just when I think I can finally relax and enjoy the next few decades without the worry of my team leaving, this BS happens.
Love the cam’ron reference.
Maybe it's a petty point, but did anyone notice the Latvala repurposed the Rays sunburst logo for his Florida House signs he was holding up?
His name is Milton.
It’s a Shameful Mistake they made.
The County has failed to honor the agreement they had made with the team by delaying, and also threatening, to not issuing bonds they had promised to do. Delays upfront always lead to cost overruns later, always. Guess who is not on the hook for any cost overruns? Both the City and County, the team alone per the agreement is responsible. So, delays will hurt the team financially. Playing in a minor league ball park next year will also hurt the team financially. The City has yet to decide to repair the existing dome. The City under insured the dome, and insurance is only going to pay half the proposed costs for repairs. If there is higher repair costs, the City will have to pay it. So the City has been hurt financially. The only party to the entire situation not being hurt financially is the County, that is backpedaling on the deal to keep the team in St. Petersburg.
And some wonder why the team is crying foul, and is threatening to leave both the City and County as quickly as possible.
If baseball's not a priority, ok. But, be careful if it is. We Expos fans understand better than anyone what might occur.
2:08 Other ridiculousness: (1) Category 5 Hurricane Milton was so bad because of man made climate change, which has yet to be seriously addressed; (2) sports owners expect taxpayers to pay for their entertainment venues. What other entertainment proprietors expect anything similar? (3) it is entirely predictable now that stadiums will need replacement and/or 9 figure reinvestment about every 20 years. Why isn’t this taken into account when negotiating what percentage of team profit is spent on players’ salary? Sports teams are considerably less profitable if stadium “balloon payments” are accounted for, instead of just looking at a particular year’s profit and loss.
1. Manmade ClimateChange is a Liberal HOAX, the climate's always been changing, it was warmer during the Dinosaurs and NYC was under ice 10,000 years ago, its always changing.
Humans need to build better for natual disasters which have plagued civilization since the start! There is nothing that can be done stop the change, people just need to adopt to it and we have the tech in place, just need the will power to build better not cheaper aka profiteering, building low selling high as is curret practice.
2. A national ban on tax dollars for stadiums would fix this problem, and end the corruption by crappy owners seeking to deepen their pockets or stroke their egos at taxpayer expense.
It would also make teams more loyal to their markets which frankly is better for their bottom line long run; noone visits the As or Rays because we know they're moving and a bunch of snakes. Athletes should be a PART-TIME job that makes the same as school teachers.
Ok, the Cam'ron cuts had me chuckling
5:33 Unless I missed something, that has to be an outdated rendering of a potential Nashville ballpark as the Titans' new stadium is being built directly south of the existing Nissan Stadium.
11:05 I have a feeling that Donald Fehr would've come out swinging against some of these schemes. I didn't think that the once-powerful MLBPA would weaken themselves.
This is the type of misinformation that I’ve been seeing all over the internet. The Rays are trying to get the bonds (from tourist taxes development dollars, not resident taxes) that were discussed upon but put to a vote at a later date. That date was delayed due to Helene and Milton and then other projects that money may need to go to (refurbishing the sand at the beaches). All to pushing money back into tourism. They want more time but the delay is pushing the start back for construction which eats into the original price of the negotiation. The time line also is in line with the loan the Rays are supposed to be getting from MLB. All of this is time adjacent. Then they move to the Yankees minor league complex because it is literally the most big league ready facilities (with a new clubhouse being constructed right now as we speak, that was in plans before the Trop was destroyed).
The repairing of the Trop is not a Rays issue as they don’t own the venue, the city of St Pete owns the building and are working on things with the insurance money and FEMA.
What this boils down to is Pinellas County got upset because the Rays are doing their next season in neighboring Hillsborough County and all that revenue is going to a neighboring county. Which creates certain county commissioners to have as ammunition in their echo chamber. What the county commissioners need to think is the redevelopment of the land (owned by the Rays, city owns the building) without a stadium draw the same amount or more tourist tax dollars then they would if the Rays stayed.
What does it matter if the money for the Rays comes from the tourist tax? It's still county revenue that could be spent on something more beneficial than the Rays.
Touchback got the shortest music snippets in the game, son
The Rays agreed to pay stadium costs overruns. The new members of the Pinellas commission decided to delay votes on the bonds. That raises the cost overruns on the Rays side of things. What should have been a straight forward easy approval has now upended the original deal. Now the Rays want St Pete & the county to pay for the new extra costs. I don't blame them at all.
MLB is batting 1.000 for the last few years, this is GOLDEN!
Surely, the decision to play at GMSF in 2025 was largely MLB's call.
The real Bay stand up. This saga of the Rays staying or going has gone on way too far. No one goes to the game and even in Tampa I doubt they sell out other than opening day or against a marquee team like the Yankees, Redsox, or Dodgers. People in florida get enough baseball when spring training is here
It goes back to the mid 80's when the Tampa/St.Pete area thought MLB was hand in glove fit. The motto was literally from field of dreams, "build it and they will come". All it was back then was to serve existing MLB teams (Minnesota, Chicago, Seattle, SF Giants) to use Tampa as a threat to move, unless a new stadium was built. Tampa only got a franchise because MLB blocked the Giants sale to Tampa, and the pending lawsuit would set precedent to end the anti-trust exemption for baseball. But the bigger problem in Florida, not just Tampa, is that live, in-person attendance at baseball is not suitable here. The sport is meant to be played outside, and for where it is popular, up north in particular, people have been cooped up over the winter months, that getting outside is what they want. In the spring, a welcome relief from spending 5 months plus inside. Come August and September, get out before we have to go inside. In Florida, it's only comfortable to be outside in the winter, and the humidity and rain in summer make outdoor baseball a miserable experience. The other problem is that there simply are not enough people with disposable income, or companies with corporate ticket support, to fill stadiums in Florida the way they do up north. For the money and time spent as a full time attending season ticket holder, there are too may other entertainment options available to people in Florida. And given the economics of player salaries and lifestyle motivations, MLB in Florida should be kept to spring training.
The Hurricane.
Some of those commissioners have conflicting interests, one dude gets donations from the Phillies so that he supports the funding request for their Spring Training Facilities.
They come for football at 1 o'clock in 90 degree heat and don't complain at least games will be at nite without the sun
For one thing the Rays weren't expecting a hurricane in October
Why would that make a difference
September-October is peak hurricane season for the gulf coast
@NickIggler1969 that's when they were supposed to vote on the stadium plan. It pushed it back post election, and now the newly elected politicians are trying to make a name for themselves
Screw the Rays. Let them build their own stadium without public money
@@frankmonte6176 Why would the Rays do that when other cities WILL build the Rays a brand new stadium? That is how cities LAND MLB and MiLB teams. As a landlord if the cities expect teams to sign new leases when the present lease expires, offer stadium improvements and updates like apartments offer new carpets, new flooring, new kitchen appliances, and new curtains or blinds...
My solution: move team to Orlando and rename them the Orlando Hurricanes
I would definitely blame Pinellas County.
@@fnaffoxyandmanglepizzeriaf2359 no, the blame has always been Stu, not Pinellas County a
@dannyboy34677 Pinellas County does care about baseball. If they did, they would have voted yes on the new stadium, but no, they wanted to use money for hurricane damage.
@@fnaffoxyandmanglepizzeriaf2359 ruclips.net/video/UZCMy5rJ-ho/видео.htmlsi=w7IevxMv2ls5aH3Y
Interview JP Peterson did with Chris Latvala yesterday ahead of that vote. I think you’ll find this very interesting what Latvala had to say here.
@@fnaffoxyandmanglepizzeriaf2359that's good I don't want my government to care about baseball I want them to care about should I build a project that actually will help the community will it provide good paying jobs will it bring tax dollars in. It's not just about oh it's so cool that we have a baseball team here.
Commissioners just like fans not real sports fans
Cities. Counties. States. Because the City or County would be the owners with the team signing a long term lease.
The stadium being destroyed in the hurricane could have been a blessing in disguise and force the owners and state to start building the new stadium but noo they want to repair the old defunct stadium and throw away more money.
St Pete is required to repair Tropicana. If they don't they've breached the contract and the Rays can leave. Wow! How cool!!!
Florida politics has always been a cesspool. MLB, likewise, has always been a shitshow on wheels. If the Trop needs to be fixed, the repairs could be crowdfunded by MLB at pennies on the dollar if spread amongst the 30 teams. Doesn't make any sense to spend that kind of money on a teardown, but they are in a box...But in a league with no salary cap, a weak luxury tax scheme, and a laughable team payroll disparity between the "Big Four" teams worth more than (supposedly) $4B, the big fish don't give a damn about the little fish - except for John Fisher apparently, allowing him to feed at the trough of MLB Welfare in perpetuity. Both the A's and the Rays have had this predicament for DECADES. The impotence and dysfunction of the league has not only put these two teams in chaos, but destabilized the entire league in the process. Either these two teams devaluate and liquidate from squandering their fanbases, or they move to a Suckerville that will give them what they want, but at the same time crap up MLB's grandiose expansion plans, and lose those huge expansion fees the owners were wringing their hands over. And make no mistake, between Oakland, St. Petersburg, and other markets enduring stadium extortion, there will be lawsuits. Lots of them. As in racketeering. RICO. And there's enough evidence already bagged in Oakland and Las Vegas to make it stick this time...
Cesspool is the perfect way to describe Florida politics.
Man, someone needs to slap that beard off Tony Clark. No players union president should be putting up with this, allowing their players to indefinitely play in a minor league stadium just because those teams are poorly run. If this happened to the Yankees, no way in hell this would be tolerated. But then again, this is Florida. Narcissism and greed run rampant.
Put soccer and wrestling in tropicana and they will come
Whose fault is it? Well, for starters, the Rays default view is they want to leave. They showed this by offering $40m a decade ago to St Pete to break the Tropicana lease.
However, the Rays would choose something other than leaving if they can get enough money to stay. And that's why they made the deal with St Pete and Pinellas County. Being paid to stay when they don't want to, the team should change its name to the Tampa Bay Melanias.
I feel like the city and county that they play in have a hand in this, they've said they don't want Tampa to have all the sports teams, so their hands are tied with their new stadium,
Well, if Tampa and/or Hillsborough County somehow pulls a rabbit out of their hats and get the Rays a new stadium, then the Rays should drop the "Bay" from their name as a middle finger to St Petersburg and Pinellas County.
@@CreightonRabs Tampa Bay includes the cities of Tampa, St Pete and Clearwater area. This is how it's always meant when naming based on the area.
@@Skroskznik I get that, but with the way Pinellas is being petty about the Rays playing in Tampa city proper, I wouldn't put it past the Rays to drop the "Bay" from their name if they were to set up shop in Ybor City or somewhere else in Hillsborough.
This, of course, presumes the Rays are staying in the Tampa/St Pete area long term, which is not a guarantee.
@@CreightonRabs Nah, this is why Tampa is superior, they aren't petty like that and understand good business. Why alienate the rest of the Tampa Bay area when it was a select few that ruined everything for them. Don't take it out on the fans. Although that is the Rays decision I guess... so they could be petty!
@@CreightonRabs They've been giving the middle finger to St Pete the entire time the team has been named Tampa Bay.
Does that 300 Million fee apply to Tampa? Doubt it.
Tampa doesn't pay anything even though the team has their name on it.
I think someone named Milton
2 facts are there.. 1 Pinellas county has been delaying things... those delays are leaving the Rays in LIMBO... and they don't like that.. add in the fact that #2: Milton Ripped the roof off the Trop leaving it unusable... and the teams patience is gone. Yeah, pinnilas county is not happy they moved to tampa... but the two options in Pinnelas where not a nice as the Yanks ST home. (not to mention, farther away).. I get that they have issues to deal with.. but it's also obvious that if its not done soon... the nature of the board is going to change in the new year and then it's probably dead. Now is there other stuff? Probably.. but really when it comes to government... dragging their feet, taking their time is part of the MO... unless it's dealing with you and you need to do something... then it better be yesterday if not sooner.
Give JP Peterson a listen on this. He had Latvala on yesterday from Pinellas and he had Hagan from Hillsborough on today.
It would be nice if this signals the turning of a corner and sports teams don't get to have government welfare.
Not happening those who refuse lose out
The Weather
Hey everybody, I have an idea, let's build a stadium with
a flimsy retractable roof in hurricane alley.
What could possibly go wrong (?)
And to make things even better, let's reduce our insurance coverage
so, we can save a couple hundred grand on premiums.
If our gamble fails, we can just threaten to move the team.
Cuckoo ! Cuckoo !!
The Trop didn't have a retractable roof.
Exactly
Speaking for franchises on the move, Brodie Brazil dropped a video regarding rumors that the Sacramento River Cats might end up playing their games or relocating to Oakland with the A's staying in Sacramento in case the Vegas "deal" falls apart. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the idea (which kinda makes sense considering the River Cats are the Giants' AAA affiliate).
I like Brodie a lot but he kind of missed the mark there. Perhaps most importantly, Fresno already has a Triple-A ballpark ready and won't let a team slip away. From what I have heard, they have a group ready to buy a franchise and just need one to be put up for sale.
Milton lol
Again, the greed goes all around. There are good lawmakers at all levels but their jobs are increasingly more difficult as a result of their colleagues being career politicans instead hoping to accomplish as much as they can while in office. Its about staying in office. I wish they would stop financing sport team and if they do use a TIF district where the stadium generates incremental tax revenue (e.g., property taxes, sales taxes) to fund debt repayment. Include minimum revenue guarantees in the agreement, requiring the franchise to pay the shortfall if TIF revenues don't meet debt obligations
Good stuff Cheyenne as always!! My dream TBH as a I work/study at UMiami, Tampa Bay stays, and Marlins relocate to Nashville, Miami-Dade leases the stadium to the Hurricanes (or Rays leave, lure Marlins to Tampa Bay and same thing). Football games can be a few metrorail stops away from campus (even though I live in Broward 15 minutes from Hard Rock stadium).
A good authority to listen to on this would be JP Peterson who’s been following the saga for 14 years. He had two good interviews already in the last two days he had Chris Latvala Pinellas County commissioner yesterday and today he had the chairman of the Hillsborough County commission Ken Hagen on give those two a listen. I think you’ll be very enlightened after you hear what they have to say and a better idea on what’s going on.
Don’t let’s do and the Rays gaslight you here, the root problem in all this saga is Stuart Sternberg, the Rays Owner, not the county commissions on both sides of the Bay
Latvala is a skunk, nepo-baby who had tried to frame the Phillies donation to his dad as somehow completely unrelated to him despite the fact weeks later he was throwing out the first pitch for them. If the Rays gave Latvala whatever he was after (perhaps some contracts for his buddies or more donations because that is how the Latvala family works), dude would happily approve the bonds. You are being lied to, dawg.
@ ruclips.net/video/UZCMy5rJ-ho/видео.htmlsi=w7IevxMv2ls5aH3Y
Here’s Latvala’s interview yesterday with JP Peterson. JP Peterson knows what he’s talking about here. He’s followed this whole saga for 14 years. The common denominator in this whole fiasco isn’t Latvala, but Stu Sternberg.
Latvala did not like the fact that the Rays did not communicate with anyone in Pinellas county government about where they were looking to play next year. Pinellas county found out when everyone else found out. There is a lot of distrust right now between Pinellas county government and Stu Sternberg. Pinellas county is set to issue 100s of millions in bonds to a team that didn't communicate with them about their temporary playing location. Personally I would like to see Sternberg sell the team and get a new owner that will actually invest in the team and the area.
If anyone is interested Jay Recher did an interview with Chris Latvala. It is on YT.
Here's a hot take how about mother nature
Blame global warming and / or mother nature. That's what caused this situation
You said a whole lot of nothing in a long video. Give us different info please. I don't blame the commissioners and I'm on Latvalas side. If the Rays had just picked up the phone or sent an email about moving to Tampa then latvala wouldn't be so annoyed. Imagine being a construction person and they start building you a home and then they find out thru Facebook you've decided to move someplace else and won't be paying for the house you wouldn't blame them for being frustrated. Stu just simply doesn't have the money to own the team and get a new stadium so he's embarrassing himself.
Both sides are wrong. Latvala is simply trying to get the team to give him things in exchange for a yes vote.