@@antoniostrina82 What just because your entitled ass said not to say LMAO and I keep saying LMAO just to get the point across that you're not shit? No I understand what you're saying just fine LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO.
Andreas Quast's translation of the same work is also helpful in understanding Motobu's approach. Some interesting points in this translation are 1) Motobu regarded kata only as basic training and that kumite (2 person practice) came next (a point shared by a close friend, Kenwa Mabuni) to get an understanding of karate; 2) it is a mistake to focus on hardness and strength, which is something that happens a lot in kata practice. Instead, Motobu stresses that speed and ability are more important than strength. These points are just a few of the riches in the book. Both translations are a must read for any karate person.
Kata/Forms are extremely useful and have enormous value, millenials and MMA fanatics criticize traditional methods from a position of ignorance. Kata helps you develop and refine technique and balance, breathing, footwork, among other things, which will affect your proficiency at fighting.
...but too many dojos practice kata with these professed benefits, and never get to fighting techniques. I take offence to your categorization of this as a millenial issue. Maybe some people just aren't buying what too many people sell as "traditional" training that never delivers what is promised.
@@cmn2509 I can tell you that practicing forms/kata has indeed given me enormous benefits. it's not combat training, it's technique training. for combat you have sparring. everything has its place and it's value. and a good complete training should incorporate all aspects, both kata and sparring, not neglecting either.
@@Liquidcadmus technical and tactical in balance. Absolutely. Not sure why it had to be ageist though. Not everything is a generational difference, and frankly, damn near everything said against millenials was once applied to X and boomers too.
Thing that is sad is that when Karate went to Japan and was changed to teach for fitness it lost a lot of practical application. Most of the movements are taught for perfection of technique. If you look at the old Okinawan Karate they didn’t have gyms with resistance equipment. But you see them using various devices to strengthen the body and various types of bodyweight drills. This is understandable since the physical fitness of many of the Okinawans impressed them. It was thought adding it to the school curriculum would strengthen the young and develop fighting spirit. Which is fine. But in old Okinawan Karate as I said before the Japanese change trained like boxers, wrestlers, etc.. Lots of conditioning on how to hit and take a hit. The stances were shorter, fighting distance closer, grappling techniques, low kicks, basically to prepare for fighting. Most students of modern Karate don’t know the applications of the forms. And have trained sports Karate, point sparring. Not fighting.
As I understand it, Motobu's mindset was that Karate was for practical use. Defending yourself violently. His teaching curriculum was short. It didn't take years to teach what was useful. Only a couple of months and then the focus was on sparring/fighting. Learn the basics. Apply the basics. There is nothing else. It's not flashy, artistic, or glamorous. You find the same in the heart of all martial arts. It's there in the Filipino martial arts. There's the basics, and there's a few ways of using the basics with whatever tools you have (dumog all the way out to using bows and arrows and other missile weapons) and that's it. Everything else on top is just dressing up the basics. It's there in European martial arts and sport applications (e.g. wrestling, boxing) that grew out of the basics. Doesn't take too long to learn what the basics are for and what they are. Does take a while to become good at using those basics under physical stress. Perhaps the best modern analogue for Motobu would be Fairbairn and Sykes distilling what they had learned down to a handful of basics and teaching it (Defendu) quickly. You don't need years to learn how to do a lot of damage to another human. You only need a handful of basics and some time in putting them to use under physical stress. Not pretty, and not much in the way of art, but it is effective.
Well put. Time and time again, I read about how some champion fighter wins most of his fights using the basics. Apparently, Royce Gracie won most of his fights using techniques learned in the first 6 months of training.
Very well worded remark. and I like it because it is the same in other sports as well. and perhaps in every life activity. fundamentals, and then learning how to perform them proficiently in an adverse situation (which might be someone beating you being under a barbell carried with a lot of weight, or anything else)
This goes right to the heart of the biggest lie in karate. I'm a karateka, but it gets under my skin when people keep repeating that it's a lifelong journey, in response to the criticism that it's taking too long to "get to the point". It doesn't take 5 years to make someone a competent fighter in the majority of situations. If you're not SUBSTANTIALLY more effective after a few months of classes, you're not training self-defence. I know that many karateka practice primarily for reasons other than practical defensive skills, but I've NEVER seen a dojo that doesn't promote self-defence on some level, and few instructors are actually able to teach it. Instead they hide behind the "lifelong journey", discourage questioning, and promote the idea that there's some point in the distant future when it'll come together, and you're being disloyal if you don't shut up, keep paying, and wait.
Loved this video. Too many karate schools are too focused on kata and touch sparring. It shows when I see “black belts” with poor fighting skills. That’s why I do not teach. The few who has asked to learn quit because I don’t babysit them. It tell them I accept payments in sweat, dedication and a little blood from time to time, you can keep your money lol.
Really nice post. I love the way logical deconstruction is made, that can be useful for those who misinterpret the use and the meaning of kata overall.
During the pandemic Kata is one of the few ways I can continue to train. It is great for self training. It trains combination of techniques in motion while change direction and stances. It is not the end all to be all but it is important part of training. Kumite and basics like distance is very important. As Miyaga said "The best defense is not to be there"
@@KamenRider1 Awesome one of our senior black belts is Filipino and also teaches us Kali-Arnis. We round out our training with some jiu-jitsu for the ground.
I don’t know if Bruce Lee knew about Motobu, but Bruce’s philosophy of get rid of what doesn’t work kind of lines up. Motobu is probably the most interesting lesser know karate masters in history. At least to me. Great video!
Great analysis. Lots of good stuff there. When you mentioned why the focus on Kata at first is because it is easier to teach large groups, you earned me as a sub. This understanding also fits with the historical perspective. Prior to Itosu bringing karate into schools there were only a handful of complex katas in existence. Itosu created the kihon and pinan katas to provide a basic gradient approach to learning the higher katas. These kihon and Pinan katas are almost half of the katas most students practice today. So really I believe Itosu created the kata approach to learning karate in order to instruct masses of school children. A different view of exactly what you said. Truth simply can be seen from any angle. Well done!
I dont know much about Motobu but based on what I'm learning recently his way seems a lot better to me. Since long time I think the importance of Kata is very exaggerated. Kata can be used to get body condition, you can use it to study like a book and get ideas, concepts and technique from it but its not the best way to focus your time training.
@@johnreidy2804 choki motobu actually mainly practiced Naihanchi not sanchin. He has whole sections of his books featuring pictures of this kata. He knew others but said that Naihanchi was all one needed.
Looks like I have a new book to add to my library! I absolutely agree with this method of teaching. It makes perfect sense. This is how I was taught Hung Gar, Wing Chun, and Jeet Kune Do. Stances, footwork, techniques, then forms/Tao Lu/Kata. Nice video! Keep up the good work brother!
Makes sense. You wouldn't teach someone to shadow box until you taught them the fundamentals first. And in fact, shadowboxing as I was taught was at first set patterns and combinations. Once you learned that you learned to put them together free form. Then came sparring.
I think Motobu is correct. I think he foreseen that the practitioners will just spend most of the time working on the kata and have no idea what it is for and no time to get the proper basic down.... and we can see that right now most of the Karate studios have their students working on the Kata all day long...
I've been a Shorin / Shorinji practitioner for 41 years. My hero's were people like O'Sensei Richard Kim, Patrick MacCarthy, my Sensei Dennis Fabatiuch, Gary Legacy, Brian Ricci etc... These are people I have met personally. We go back to the old Butokukai of Eastern Canada. I can't forget Sensei Don Warrener. I really like your channel. I like what you are doing here. My affiliation is now American, and many of us, years ago, started trying to recapture the "old" Karate that wasn't just kickboxing, but contained all of the locks, choked, holds, throws ..... The original multi-dimensional Karate. Guys like Sensei Patrick have spearheaded the way for guys like us. Great stuff. Ossu Rei
LOL!! Amazing how this "rediscovery" occurs in the wake of the UFC! Suddenly karate contains all these hidden grappling skills and even ground fighting! This is simply "reverse engineering" in order to try and still be relevant, in order to protect egos. You spend 41 years in karate and if the UFC and MMA had not happened....you would still be doing the same useless bullshit!
@@matthewbreytenbach4483 NOT from karate!! MMA is from BOXING, Muay Thai, and BJJ primarily. FIGHTING METHODS not all this "pretend" shit! Karate is dead! As it should be because it's never been effective!
@@billslayer1175 I did not word that well. What I meant was that they got their techniques from the martial arts that they studied, and yes many mma fighters have studied karate. Karate is pushing four hundred years old, and has been used quite successfully in those years against numerous weapons and empty hand fighting styles, including actual military jiu-jitsu, which was a truly vicious art.
one idea I really like is show someone the Bunkai and Drill that 1st then show the Kata so they really understand why they are doing the Kata, I agree 1st Stance, Footwork, Strike( with targets and vital points), Angle, Strike , mix in takedown, chokes and joint locks along with small joint manipulation
I have been trying to preach this kind of ideas in the Italian karate community for years and years and got called all sorts of names 🤣 My idea is that kata is just the Eastern counterpart of our historical fencing manuals where the technique shown actually tries to teach you movement principles that you can get multiple uses from. Kata, bunkai and oyo do just the same
I think you have nailed it! I am grateful the style I study follows a similar pattern and I am continually updating how I teach to match this pattern more closely as naturally the style I study does not match this philosophy and approach exactly.❤ Thank you for sharing. I have read that book twice and you have inspired the third reading, now!!😂
All good points. The only thing I would add is that to train well, first be there, just like best defence is not be there. You have to get students enthused, otherwise they get bored and leave. The balance between a teaching style that measures correct and effective training against regular attendance is hard to master and often frustrating.
I dont think that kata means anything if you don't know how to fight. We have all seen an 8-year-old performing kata. Even if they have sharp moves, they have no idea what they are doing.
Kata is just like abc's as a kid you still dont know how to form sentences, paragraphs, or essays you barely even know how to form a word correctly but you eventually grow and learn
@@MrDragonkarp except you can learn how to fight more effectively without learning the abc's of karate. if you don't have extensive takedowns, grappling, locks, chokes, and equal amount of striking in your system it may be effective in limited situations it is in no way a well rounded system that can fight at any range of combat even on the ground against a wrestler or BJJ player.
@@CH-qw6yy well I train more traditional karate so there is grappling. Can't speak for modern Karate but I believe as a karate practitioner you should know judo as well. I started out Tae kwon do and Judo now Karate/Judo/Sumo
I had to pause this as soon as I heard you ask what Motobu Choki thought about Kata, as I already know that he thought Kata was bullshit - and he’s right. It’s something that was created and constantly expanded upon, to keep students interested and coming back. I for one love fighting, and could do it everyday, but pain is a deterrent to most people. They would quit if all they had to look forward to was getting bumps and bruises on daily basis... although the point of gaining experience in fighting, is to ultimately learn how to cause damage, without taking damage. Osu.
I studied tkd that competed in local point karate tournaments, so I learned the same as most if not all practitioners - basic kicks, move in your stances, then kata and shortly after, sparring. Because of our training style (it should also be said that every friday had a "fight night" class, where the whole class was nothing but sparring,) I began to think of my style as 2 sides of the coin: there was the technical, bag practice, kicks and punches side where we honed our technique, and then there was the sparring side, where we honed our distance management, blocking and dodging, and muddled through defenses and worked on combos etc. It was a lot of fun, and i by no means believe i could take anyone on, but i enjoyed the entire experience. I wish i knew about Motobu back then, but i had only recently heard of him thanks to Jessie Enkamp's yt channel, the karate nerd.
Nice video i do like motobus drills etc even though he seems to have been a bit if a headbanger and does contradict himself sometimes but his main ideas and principles are spot on.
Very interesting. I have not yet read this text (it is on my to-read list), but this is pretty much exactly how I teach my students. We go through our fundamentals (movement, strikes, blocks, locks, throws, bagwork) before we get to kata (we focus on the Tekki/Naihanchi set), and we don't get to live sparing until the student is fairly rounded in their fundamentals and their kata. I think the only reason this works for us is all of our sessions are very small. I won't teach more than 10 people in any given session, and my most common class size is 3. I keep my classes very small for one simple reason: safety. When I was first studying karate in college, we had 50 to 80 people per one instructor. As a result, I broke my rib in my third week. I'm not keen to see that happen with my students. I will be bumping this book higher on my to-read list.
My training matches this aspect, almost to a T but I agree if you had 50 or more students then kata is better to start out learning because in kata you get all your Fundamentals it’s like shadow boxing. I love your content keep up the good work
When I started training in 1966, we learned basics (form and techniques), Kumite and only had Kata for about 15 minutes a week. This was at the 3rd oldest college Karate Club in the U.S.. I think, if I remember correctly, we only trained on Tuesday and Thursday (I’ll have to message one of my old Sensei’s about that). Unfortunately, the first Kata taught was Taekyoko Shodan, which is the same techniques in every direction. None of us beginners could figure it out or remember it from week to week. Henry (one of the teachers) would scream at us to practice), but we couldn’t remember enough of it to practice it. LOL. I actually came to love that Kata, but never taught it to beginners after my experience.
If my memory serves me right, that's was the order of praciticing in Finland, even in early 90's. Also, a more more dedicated kata practice came only after 6th kuy (1st green belt), or something like that.
Good video. I have read many comments and had discussions with Karate black belts who say that Kata is the most important thing they do. That mentality causes Karate to lose credibility. The most important thing in any art is learning how to manage combat. There are many tools and practices that help effective instructors accomplish this and kata is one of those not the only one or most important one. It is actually the least important. Boxer's, Kickboxer's, and MMA fighter's shadow box and is a perfect example of Kata (which means patterns of movement) being used in other fighting arts. A lot of really good professional fighters and others in very effective combat arts that fight from all ranges of combat look down on Karate, TWD, and Kung Fu for the simple fact that Kata is emphasized over the overall goal of learning how to fight and manage combat. The really good Karate schools get that and view Kata just another form of practice just like how a boxer might use the heavy bag or shadow boxing. I run a Ju-Jitsu based school that is equal parts striking, grappling, takedowns, submissions, and self-defense. At the end of every belt test I do what I call a hot box where each student takes a turn in the middle of the circle of students and has to fight multiple students/instructors for at least one minute and sometimes up to 3 minutes depending on how I feel that day there are virtually no rules (except no eye gouges or groin strikes) at about 75% percent contact. I even had a student get out of an arm bar during this one time by biting the leg of one of the attackers. I do this to simulate the chaos of fighting and to teach my students they aren't going to win every fight and that the lesson is to never quit fighting.
Yes, that's close to how my Sensei teaches Karate. First you learn how to stand, when you can stand you learn how to move, when you can move you can learn how to use your arms and legs to block and/or attack. Kata comes after you learned those basics. Sparing comes last. But Sensei never mentioned Motobu.
You relayed that really nicely then! This is exactly what I've been doing with the blog #backstreetkarate, trying to re-educate Karate-Ka today. They already know it, but just not doing it as intended. OSU 🙂
A really interesting take, I like it a lot. However, it might not have been the accepted norm as a teaching process. My understanding is that Okinawan masters would reveal the "secrets" of karate to one or two students after much practise. Motobu seems to have taught these "secrets" before kata was even considered. In modern times senseis, generally, are not well versed enough in their kata to teach all the techniques available in each kata in a practical way. Hence the reliance on the kata as a 'dance' to be learned for grading and the rest of the time devoted to 'sport' karate.
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 If it is really a realistic application that you're being shown then that's great. Unfortunately a lot of "senseis" will teach application without doing the necessary research or giving the technique/application much thought. So many teachers simply regurgitate what their own sense taught them, without question.
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 I'm afraid that doesn't mean he knows/has researched the original applications. I have no doubt, however, that he is a very good fighter.
There is no one fits all in any form of discipline, in any walk of life there are those who stand out from the crowd,. Those are the ones who put all they have into what they do, to get the best they can out of themselves. The truth is the majority of people who enter a Karate Dojo to train with a teacher want to be led, they don't want to think for themselves or stand out from the crowd. A good teacher will do their best to bring the best out of the student by whatever means applies to that given student. If the student wants to achieve then 90% of the effort lies with that student. A good teacher will help student get where they want to be much quicker than If the teacher is not good at his job, but a good student will find his way to learn even from a bad Sensei. What i am basically saying is Karate is like any other discipline, the student must really want to achieve, mentally, physically and spiritually over years of training is the only way forward. but it is the physical input and attitude that gets you there and everyone has a different approach as to how they get there.A good teacher gets to know the student, so they can work together to achieve that student goals. Today there is too much analysis and criticism of Sensei and systems. There are a lot of variables when speaking on any subject, Martial Arts are no different, not very many join a Karate club because they want to be the best fighter and not very many leave after many years of training with the ability to be an even average fighter, but that does not mean they did not achieve what they came looking for in the first place. Fighters will be fighters no matter what Martial Discipline they decide upon or none. Good teachers will always be an asset to get the best from a fighter, but the most thing they need is hunger and drive, a teacher or coach can help with this but cannot create it, if it is not in the make up of the student. I know we are discussing Fighting, but Martial Arts are a much bigger subject, Sensei Motobu may have been a very good teacher but if all his teaching was based on the fighting aspect of the Martial Arts, then i would say, he was dealing with a very small minority of Martial Arts practitioners. Just as an adjunct, the majority of students of Martial arts develop confidence in their everyday life from their training, lots develop spatial awareness, learn to carry themselves well in society, become leaders in their field of endeavor, they develop a sense of awareness of the energy that prevails their surroundings, they develop enough knowledge about self defense to keep them out of trouble. Some become very proficient within the skills of self defense and some others become top sports practitioners in their individual systems or in mixed Martial sport, some more become combat instructors or practitioners etc. So Martial practice may be of benefit to the world in lots of ways that i have barely touched on here, it is really up to the individual. As in the Military, not everybody is going to become top class in their field, even if they spend years serving.
I trained in traditional karate back in the day. Must have learned at least 30 kata. I still train, but only do a few kata. My training is fighting centric. It's all about functionality. Have you seen Muay Boran kata? No need for the bunkai concept there. The moves are brutal and obvious.
The GREAT problem is....most people think in terms of a "fight". And in a fight we see people exchanging techniques...there is a back and forth. Well that's for sport, or for the dojo, or for some sort of challenge match. But once you're old enough to no longer be on the school playground...you should also no longer be engaged in such fights. So regarding movement....ask yourself why you are standing in front of a potential trouble maker? Why would you stand there? Once you realize someone presents potential trouble....use movement to LEAVE! If you're not there he can't attack you! If for some reason you're unable to leave....then ATTACK! Use a pre-emptive attack. Don't wait for someone to attack you. And if that is not an option and the attacker has gone first....you must counter-attack! And in real life there will be no time to judge timing, etc. The type of movement caught in martial arts or boxing is of limited use in real life. You will not be able to move around like in the ring or dojo. Why do I say this? As you're reading this just look around you...what do you see? I'm going to bet you don't see very much room to move around! Walk to another room and look around...again you won't see much room to move around. Go outside and look around...what do you see? Lot's of obstacles and obstructions! Cars, walls, fences, trees, shrubs, light posts, mail boxes, curbs, etc. Now take a moment and just try doing some of your footwork in these places...I'll bet you'll quickly see the problem. You will not just be fighting another person but also fighting against the environment...your focus will be split between not getting hit and not tripping or stumbling....this is not a good thing!
This video describes everything that Ashihara Kara Te addresses for self defense combative style of Kara Te. Unlike Kyokushin, the toe to toe brawling style, Ashihara focuses greatly upon developing Taisabaki evasiveness to flank & maneuver upon one's adversary like a ghost to avoid damage much like a western boxer.
Methinks that is a very decent way to teach - especially if teaching someone who isn't already an experienced fighter & there's sufficient time to teach prior to a student needing to fight (in other words it's excellent for say teaching a young family member as in traditional father-to-son instruction).* * = Some things can be skipped or put on the back-burner if training someone who already has some degree of fighting skill... And, if having to quickly train students to fight due to say impending military action or students being in a rough neighborhood, then I would use a different approach [after giving a quick lesson in prayer I'd start out teaching quick-to-learn-&-apply rudimentary fighting techniques akin to a quick commando-like course & then as time allows I would get into teaching the student(s) a martial art - expanding upon the rudimentary skills already digested: showing & drilling the finer details to strengthen understanding & experience]. It's best to know technique before knowing kata/forms - or at least to learn them both simultaneously; for, technique is very important & practicing kata/forms without knowledge of techniques is largely a meaningless waste of time for fighting purposes ('though not a total waste of time).
The question comes up with kata, is it to show exactly the application like kungfu? Or is karate kata there to remind the practitioner of the applications? And so those modifications that you need to make create the solo applications you practice. Again like kungfu.
Moves, techniques, kata, whatever you want to call it... are only vehicles to teach concepts in a particular context. You can't tell someone "use centrifugal force to redirect the power in that strike" , but you can point out which concepts are at play when you are working a particular technique defensive technique against strikes. That said, practical mastery comes from sparring and lots of it. Without sparring you do not learn to apply techniques under pressure or the artificial constraint of katas happening in a prescribed sequence. Without practicing techniques under pressure and in response to unrehearsed, ideally randomized opponent actions, then you will struggle for effectiveness whenever your opponent deviates from the sequence and timing of kata. Put simply, kata gets your body moving in the right general way with appropriate responses to standardized stimuli, but you absolutely must spar to move beyond that kata, and fight fluidly using concepts against an enemy that could care less about what kata says their response should be.
Interesting but I feel the importance of the mental aspect is quite underestimated. Somebody who would train only fundamentals and/or alone for months or years would develop some kind of fear of the opposition (fear of being hurt, fear of losing, fear of being ridicule...), compared to somebody who would have been allowed to try a light very unperfect sparring.
I don’t disagree with the value of sparring. However you want to also take into consideration the reality woven into the intensity of the two person drills and fundamentals. Done correctly the intensity of those drills continues to increase as the person gains more confidence and skill. The only thing that should be different about sparring from the main training should be the unexpected nature of it being unscripted. The confidence gained through working with a partner, both compliant and resisting, should take away the development of that fear.
Writing has to have a form that other person can understand and read. Its communication. Fighting does not or should not have a form that can be read. In combat you would like to have the best possible technique your body-mind can do. You can improve your body, knowledge and technique, but its all about your own skills and at bests its not the same as others. Learning a ”perfectly” copied technique or kata might not be the best choice for your apilities. So even if the method of learning would be good, if you learn not so good things…(and as I wrote in previous comment, our understanding of learning and teaching motor skills has develope in resent decade.)
But it is unclear to me if these are Motobu Choki’s words ir Kyan Chotoku’s words. Still super informative and valuable no matter who spoke them and definitely the Motobu clan’s training philosophy
Kata is taught first because Funokoshi wanted karate to be part of the school currículum . Universities were just a easier entry way and you don't want little kids geting hurt . Much less brain concussions
Well, I think it can be done either way. there are many people in karate that becoming strong people. the thing is, not everyone want to become a strong people Let's face it. I dont know how it is in your gym, but have you ever seen people go to the mma gym not to learn to fight? They just want activity, they want to be fit and some other else. it is why many karate dojo doing kata first. it is to separate people that want to do fight and people that just want to do karate Also, there are people who want to only can fight for self defense, and there are also people that want to fight on higher level of fighting
Emphasis on Kata first is a way for teachers to attract and retain paying students. Sooner hit = sooner quit = less income. Same rationale today behind multiple belt levels and tournament trophies. 😢
First time here. Enjoyed your video. Epic beard. So, how MANY kata to maintain? Maybe you already talked about this, I’ll take a look at your other videos.
How many indeed. Welcome and glad to have you! Give a look at this video in particular ruclips.net/video/iJxc2ZSfuK8/видео.html, though I have another coming out soon that will build on this so be sure to subscribe so you don't miss it!
This is interesting and a bit confusing . You mention that what you are reading begins on page 80 in the section "What to know about training" You also imply that this is instruction by Motobu Choki. I have this book for quite a few years and in my copy "What to know about Training" is on page 48...not 80. The section reads just as you quoted "Teaching should take place in the following order...." etc. but as I stated....in my copy it's page 48. Also it isn't written by Motobu. It's in the earlier sections of the book and is written by Kyan Chotoku from his "What to know about fighting."
It may help to add that Motobu didn't practice all of the same data as other styles. This point makes it a little more understandable as to how sparring could be started before kata. It's not going to take you as long to get to that point under his tutelage
I think posture is important in order to protect the "mohawk". Boxers strike to the body and leave the Mohawk open. Mma fighters shoot and dive for the body and leave the mohawk open. Some MMA fighters TURN THEIR FACE AWAY AND EXPOSE THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD TO PROTECT THEIR FACE...SMDH. the straight posture in Karate protects the one place on the human body that you can strike and kill a much larger opponent.
I know it's not necessarily about the training, but I am disappointed you glossed over the true first point: what karate is and is not. I imagine it helps to sort out the students that one does and does not want, and it may help properly define or redefine student expectations, which will ultimately result in a stronger learning environment in the dojo. But, back to the your video; sparring should absolutely be the final point of training, in my opinion. Having trained trained technique for so much time already (presumably), the sparring can properly incorporate the actual technique practiced. Modern tournament kumite is the best and most shameful example of what happens when training through sparring in not built around a solid foundation of actual karate. Lastly, all the training in preparation for sparring helps ensure that students has spent some time developing control and refining their technique. This helps prevents injuries during sparring, as nobody voluntarily goes to train so that they can receive injuries.
Don't traditional Chinese Martial Arts like Seven Star Praying Mantis have a lot of kata? www.northernmantis.com/forms/ If Japanese martial came from Chinese Martial Arts then how come it originally didn't have alot of kata? Were most of the kata in traditional Chinese martial mostly useless?
There are some mysteries still in kata, things that aren’t explained in bunkai. As example, why are some moves done slowly, like outside block in Sanchin katas?
Kata does many things one thing it does is train you on sequence of attacks and defenses. 2nd the repetition of kata teaches you Mushin in which you do a movement over and over again until there is no thought involved in it.When you drive a car you are basically practicing Kata you hit the accelerator you hit the brakes you hit the accelerator you hit the brakes you do this over let's say 30 years of driving probably over 100000 times. It gets to a point where you will see something run out in front of you and your foot will hit the brake before you think about it. That is the ultimate goal of Kata, but ine thing you did not mention is bunkai. Bunkai is the interpretation of Kata.We did nit go from Kata to fighting.We went from Kata ti Bunkai to Fighting..Mr. Miyagi in the karate kid was teaching Daniel Kata by painting the fence and washing waxing the car He then taught him bunkai and at that point Daniel had an epiphany. MOTOBU only believed 1 Kata was necessary for combat and that was Nai Hanchi..
The repetitive practice of karate kata sharpen individual techniques and combinations. But, the practitioner must understand and repeatedly practice the applications of the techniques within the kata against various opponents with different mentalities. Also, any solo karate practice requires imagination and emotion to the point that you can "feel" the impact of your blocks and strikes against your opponent. If you're not worn out after doing kata, then you probably didn't do it correctly. Mindless kata can fool some kata judges, but not thugs who are trying to kill you. Much of the world view karate as a fighting art. If you can't apply your karate techniques in a real fight, then it's best not to let people know you're a karateka - particularly in areas of America where people still has the Old West mentally. Sooner than later, you will be challenged...and they couldn't care less about the other aspects and benefits of karate training!
I think the real "Miyagi" was Fumio Demura. He is a high ranking martial artist in Shito-ryu karate. Kenwa Mabuni was Shito-Ryu's founder. Mabuni was a student Itosu and so was Motobu and Funakoshi? That is why it made sense when you quoted "not be there" and what you alluded is balance. Striking, trapping and blocking are dependent upon timing and free sparring tests your timing because like Sifu Jwing ming said: "Your enemy, not stupid" . In some TKD dojos, the one step sparring especially from white to green belt is no longer taught. It is just to learn the application of the movement of the Hyungs or kata. They have instead this Tae-Guk which wasn't taught in the early '70's. 10:46 You just reminded me of what my TJD teacher used to say about kata. First, thing to learn when you write is the alphabet; you struggle, then sentences with ease , then paragraphs- kata is that way Thank you for letting us know the source for the book.
What did Itosu think of Motobu's thoughts on kata? What did Matsumura think about it all? Motobu was wrong and his ideas should be ignored from history.
Holy crap! This is the first time that I see a martial arts instructor being logical and not just repeating dogma. Absolutely fantastic!
Then you need to get out more.
Technically he is repeating dogma LMAO
@@antoniostrina82
I do understand what Choki said because I understand English.
Do you?
Also LMAO
@@antoniostrina82
What just because your entitled ass said not to say LMAO and I keep saying LMAO just to get the point across that you're not shit?
No I understand what you're saying just fine LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO.
In America agree. But in Spain we have powerful senseis and with real knowledge ♥️ i respect McCarthy btw. He is a good historian ♥️
Andreas Quast's translation of the same work is also helpful in understanding Motobu's approach. Some interesting points in this translation are 1) Motobu regarded kata only as basic training and that kumite (2 person practice) came next (a point shared by a close friend, Kenwa Mabuni) to get an understanding of karate; 2) it is a mistake to focus on hardness and strength, which is something that happens a lot in kata practice. Instead, Motobu stresses that speed and ability are more important than strength. These points are just a few of the riches in the book. Both translations are a must read for any karate person.
Nice post ... I like what you're doing and wish you continued success :-)
Sensei Patrick McCarthy
Ossu
Rei
ML& R
I agree.
Kata/Forms are extremely useful and have enormous value, millenials and MMA fanatics criticize traditional methods from a position of ignorance.
Kata helps you develop and refine technique and balance, breathing, footwork, among other things, which will affect your proficiency at fighting.
...but too many dojos practice kata with these professed benefits, and never get to fighting techniques. I take offence to your categorization of this as a millenial issue. Maybe some people just aren't buying what too many people sell as "traditional" training that never delivers what is promised.
@@cmn2509 I can tell you that practicing forms/kata has indeed given me enormous benefits. it's not combat training, it's technique training. for combat you have sparring. everything has its place and it's value. and a good complete training should incorporate all aspects, both kata and sparring, not neglecting either.
@@Liquidcadmus technical and tactical in balance. Absolutely. Not sure why it had to be ageist though. Not everything is a generational difference, and frankly, damn near everything said against millenials was once applied to X and boomers too.
@Olivia Jones I don't understand your question, why wouldn't I have it?
Thing that is sad is that when Karate went to Japan and was changed to teach for fitness it lost a lot of practical application. Most of the movements are taught for perfection of technique. If you look at the old Okinawan Karate they didn’t have gyms with resistance equipment.
But you see them using various devices to strengthen the body and various types of bodyweight drills. This is understandable since the physical fitness of many of the Okinawans impressed them.
It was thought adding it to the school curriculum would strengthen the young and develop fighting spirit. Which is fine. But in old Okinawan Karate as I said before the Japanese change trained like boxers, wrestlers, etc.. Lots of conditioning on how to hit and take a hit. The stances were shorter, fighting distance closer, grappling techniques, low kicks, basically to prepare for fighting. Most students of modern Karate don’t know the applications of the forms. And have trained sports Karate, point sparring. Not fighting.
As I understand it, Motobu's mindset was that Karate was for practical use. Defending yourself violently. His teaching curriculum was short. It didn't take years to teach what was useful. Only a couple of months and then the focus was on sparring/fighting. Learn the basics. Apply the basics. There is nothing else. It's not flashy, artistic, or glamorous.
You find the same in the heart of all martial arts. It's there in the Filipino martial arts. There's the basics, and there's a few ways of using the basics with whatever tools you have (dumog all the way out to using bows and arrows and other missile weapons) and that's it. Everything else on top is just dressing up the basics.
It's there in European martial arts and sport applications (e.g. wrestling, boxing) that grew out of the basics. Doesn't take too long to learn what the basics are for and what they are. Does take a while to become good at using those basics under physical stress.
Perhaps the best modern analogue for Motobu would be Fairbairn and Sykes distilling what they had learned down to a handful of basics and teaching it (Defendu) quickly. You don't need years to learn how to do a lot of damage to another human. You only need a handful of basics and some time in putting them to use under physical stress. Not pretty, and not much in the way of art, but it is effective.
Well put. Time and time again, I read about how some champion fighter wins most of his fights using the basics. Apparently, Royce Gracie won most of his fights using techniques learned in the first 6 months of training.
Very well worded remark. and I like it because it is the same in other sports as well. and perhaps in every life activity. fundamentals, and then learning how to perform them proficiently in an adverse situation (which might be someone beating you being under a barbell carried with a lot of weight, or anything else)
@@varanid9 Well, he was fighting untrained fellas soooo...
@@thesun564 if you mean Royce, no, he very obviously wasn't. If you mean untrained in grappling, sure, that will always be a different ballgame.
This goes right to the heart of the biggest lie in karate. I'm a karateka, but it gets under my skin when people keep repeating that it's a lifelong journey, in response to the criticism that it's taking too long to "get to the point". It doesn't take 5 years to make someone a competent fighter in the majority of situations. If you're not SUBSTANTIALLY more effective after a few months of classes, you're not training self-defence. I know that many karateka practice primarily for reasons other than practical defensive skills, but I've NEVER seen a dojo that doesn't promote self-defence on some level, and few instructors are actually able to teach it. Instead they hide behind the "lifelong journey", discourage questioning, and promote the idea that there's some point in the distant future when it'll come together, and you're being disloyal if you don't shut up, keep paying, and wait.
Loved this video. Too many karate schools are too focused on kata and touch sparring. It shows when I see “black belts” with poor fighting skills. That’s why I do not teach. The few who has asked to learn quit because I don’t babysit them. It tell them I accept payments in sweat, dedication and a little blood from time to time, you can keep your money lol.
Motobu is awesome. I'm really curious to learn more about him and this video helped to scratch that itch. Thanks for the content
Really nice post. I love the way logical deconstruction is made, that can be useful for those who misinterpret the use and the meaning of kata overall.
One of my favourite RUclipsrs now
I think the understanding of how we learn motor skills has developed from early 1900.
you gotta respect this guys beard! epic!!
During the pandemic Kata is one of the few ways I can continue to train. It is great for self training. It trains combination of techniques in motion while change direction and stances. It is not the end all to be all but it is important part of training. Kumite and basics like distance is very important. As Miyaga said "The best defense is not to be there"
Hear hear, Sir!
I study Shotokan Karate and Kali-Arnis, Kata and our basic drills really helped during this entire Pandemic.
@@KamenRider1 Awesome one of our senior black belts is Filipino and also teaches us Kali-Arnis. We round out our training with some jiu-jitsu for the ground.
I don’t know if Bruce Lee knew about Motobu, but Bruce’s philosophy of get rid of what doesn’t work kind of lines up. Motobu is probably the most interesting lesser know karate masters in history. At least to me. Great video!
Great analysis. Lots of good stuff there.
When you mentioned why the focus on Kata at first is because it is easier to teach large groups, you earned me as a sub.
This understanding also fits with the historical perspective. Prior to Itosu bringing karate into schools there were only a handful of complex katas in existence. Itosu created the kihon and pinan katas to provide a basic gradient approach to learning the higher katas. These kihon and Pinan katas are almost half of the katas most students practice today.
So really I believe Itosu created the kata approach to learning karate in order to instruct masses of school children.
A different view of exactly what you said. Truth simply can be seen from any angle. Well done!
I dont know much about Motobu but based on what I'm learning recently his way seems a lot better to me. Since long time I think the importance of Kata is very exaggerated. Kata can be used to get body condition, you can use it to study like a book and get ideas, concepts and technique from it but its not the best way to focus your time training.
It's true... I stoped train it, but Motobu Choki was trained ona kata every day!! Only one.
@@Kulki10dan And that kata was Sanchin. Good kata
@@johnreidy2804 choki motobu actually mainly practiced Naihanchi not sanchin. He has whole sections of his books featuring pictures of this kata. He knew others but said that Naihanchi was all one needed.
@@Ectrue1977 LOL i read his book friend and he said that Sanchin Kata was the only Kata he needed.
Motobu didn't practice Naha Te. I also have the book. Sanchin was not part of his repertoire. He learned from Itosu, Matsumura and Matsumora.
Looks like I have a new book to add to my library! I absolutely agree with this method of teaching. It makes perfect sense. This is how I was taught Hung Gar, Wing Chun, and Jeet Kune Do. Stances, footwork, techniques, then forms/Tao Lu/Kata. Nice video! Keep up the good work brother!
Makes sense. You wouldn't teach someone to shadow box until you taught them the fundamentals first. And in fact, shadowboxing as I was taught was at first set patterns and combinations. Once you learned that you learned to put them together free form. Then came sparring.
I think Motobu is correct. I think he foreseen that the practitioners will just spend most of the time working on the kata and have no idea what it is for and no time to get the proper basic down.... and we can see that right now most of the Karate studios have their students working on the Kata all day long...
I've been a Shorin / Shorinji practitioner for 41 years. My hero's were people like O'Sensei Richard Kim, Patrick MacCarthy, my Sensei Dennis Fabatiuch, Gary Legacy, Brian Ricci etc... These are people I have met personally. We go back to the old Butokukai of Eastern Canada. I can't forget Sensei Don Warrener.
I really like your channel. I like what you are doing here. My affiliation is now American, and many of us, years ago, started trying to recapture the "old" Karate that wasn't just kickboxing, but contained all of the locks, choked, holds, throws ..... The original multi-dimensional Karate. Guys like Sensei Patrick have spearheaded the way for guys like us.
Great stuff.
Ossu
Rei
LOL!! Amazing how this "rediscovery" occurs in the wake of the UFC! Suddenly karate contains all these hidden grappling skills and even ground fighting! This is simply "reverse engineering" in order to try and still be relevant, in order to protect egos. You spend 41 years in karate and if the UFC and MMA had not happened....you would still be doing the same useless bullshit!
@@billslayer1175
Nonsense!
Where do you think the UFC fighters got their tchniques from in the first place?
@@matthewbreytenbach4483 NOT from karate!! MMA is from BOXING, Muay Thai, and BJJ primarily. FIGHTING METHODS not all this "pretend" shit! Karate is dead! As it should be because it's never been effective!
@@billslayer1175
I did not word that well.
What I meant was that they got their techniques from the martial arts that they studied, and yes many mma fighters have studied karate.
Karate is pushing four hundred years old, and has been used quite successfully in those years against numerous weapons and empty hand fighting styles, including actual military jiu-jitsu, which was a truly vicious art.
@@matthewbreytenbach4483 Lot's of us have studied karate...until we realized it was garbage and moved on to more useful methods!
one idea I really like is show someone the Bunkai and Drill that 1st then show the Kata so they really understand why they are doing the Kata, I agree 1st Stance, Footwork, Strike( with targets and vital points), Angle, Strike , mix in takedown, chokes and joint locks along with small joint manipulation
I have been trying to preach this kind of ideas in the Italian karate community for years and years and got called all sorts of names 🤣
My idea is that kata is just the Eastern counterpart of our historical fencing manuals where the technique shown actually tries to teach you movement principles that you can get multiple uses from. Kata, bunkai and oyo do just the same
I’ve been enjoying the recent talk about Motobu Choki. It brought me to this video. Subscribed!
Great stuff! An approval from Hanshi McCarthy is no small feat either😜
Fuck hanshi mccarthy
Trie and true. A simple but practical application in training is the way to go.
Really interesting breakdown of the approach Ken. Thankyou :)
O M G you are the karate aimrcan master in baki season 4
I think you have nailed it! I am grateful the style I study follows a similar pattern and I am continually updating how I teach to match this pattern more closely as naturally the style I study does not match this philosophy and approach exactly.❤
Thank you for sharing. I have read that book twice and you have inspired the third reading, now!!😂
Funakoshi = A Form of Shamisen
Motobu = A Form of Music
It’s one of my best karate books that I have. You’ll learn what karate really is with a good reflection. 😎
All good points. The only thing I would add is that to train well, first be there, just like best defence is not be there. You have to get students enthused, otherwise they get bored and leave. The balance between a teaching style that measures correct and effective training against regular attendance is hard to master and often frustrating.
Great video!Well done! I like the way you have structured it in a very inquisitive fashion.Keep it up!
I dont think that kata means anything if you don't know how to fight. We have all seen an 8-year-old performing kata. Even if they have sharp moves, they have no idea what they are doing.
Kata is just like abc's as a kid you still dont know how to form sentences, paragraphs, or essays you barely even know how to form a word correctly but you eventually grow and learn
@@MrDragonkarp except you can learn how to fight more effectively without learning the abc's of karate. if you don't have extensive takedowns, grappling, locks, chokes, and equal amount of striking in your system it may be effective in limited situations it is in no way a well rounded system that can fight at any range of combat even on the ground against a wrestler or BJJ player.
@@CH-qw6yy well I train more traditional karate so there is grappling. Can't speak for modern Karate but I believe as a karate practitioner you should know judo as well. I started out Tae kwon do and Judo now Karate/Judo/Sumo
@@MrDragonkarp yeah but you learn how to speak the language before you learn the abc's
@@CH-qw6yy
Kata/forms are a combination of tactical exercise and technical drill.
Very useful, especially if you usually train alone.
Kata helps me train longer and I like that idea of kata being a record of what you know am going to buy that book
I had to pause this as soon as I heard you ask what Motobu Choki thought about Kata, as I already know that he thought Kata was bullshit - and he’s right. It’s something that was created and constantly expanded upon, to keep students interested and coming back. I for one love fighting, and could do it everyday, but pain is a deterrent to most people. They would quit if all they had to look forward to was getting bumps and bruises on daily basis... although the point of gaining experience in fighting, is to ultimately learn how to cause damage, without taking damage.
Osu.
I studied tkd that competed in local point karate tournaments, so I learned the same as most if not all practitioners - basic kicks, move in your stances, then kata and shortly after, sparring. Because of our training style (it should also be said that every friday had a "fight night" class, where the whole class was nothing but sparring,) I began to think of my style as 2 sides of the coin: there was the technical, bag practice, kicks and punches side where we honed our technique, and then there was the sparring side, where we honed our distance management, blocking and dodging, and muddled through defenses and worked on combos etc.
It was a lot of fun, and i by no means believe i could take anyone on, but i enjoyed the entire experience.
I wish i knew about Motobu back then, but i had only recently heard of him thanks to Jessie Enkamp's yt channel, the karate nerd.
Makes a lot of sense. Thank you 👍🏻
Nice video i do like motobus drills etc even though he seems to have been a bit if a headbanger and does contradict himself sometimes but his main ideas and principles are spot on.
Very interesting. I have not yet read this text (it is on my to-read list), but this is pretty much exactly how I teach my students. We go through our fundamentals (movement, strikes, blocks, locks, throws, bagwork) before we get to kata (we focus on the Tekki/Naihanchi set), and we don't get to live sparing until the student is fairly rounded in their fundamentals and their kata. I think the only reason this works for us is all of our sessions are very small. I won't teach more than 10 people in any given session, and my most common class size is 3. I keep my classes very small for one simple reason: safety. When I was first studying karate in college, we had 50 to 80 people per one instructor. As a result, I broke my rib in my third week. I'm not keen to see that happen with my students. I will be bumping this book higher on my to-read list.
Thank you kindly, sir. It is in my list. I just won't be able to get it as soon as I'd like.
My training matches this aspect, almost to a T but I agree if you had 50 or more students then kata is better to start out learning because in kata you get all your Fundamentals it’s like shadow boxing. I love your content keep up the good work
When I started training in 1966, we learned basics (form and techniques), Kumite and only had Kata for about 15 minutes a week. This was at the 3rd oldest college Karate Club in the U.S.. I think, if I remember correctly, we only trained on Tuesday and Thursday (I’ll have to message one of my old Sensei’s about that). Unfortunately, the first Kata taught was Taekyoko Shodan, which is the same techniques in every direction. None of us beginners could figure it out or remember it from week to week. Henry (one of the teachers) would scream at us to practice), but we couldn’t remember enough of it to practice it. LOL. I actually came to love that Kata, but never taught it to beginners after my experience.
If my memory serves me right, that's was the order of praciticing in Finland, even in early 90's. Also, a more more dedicated kata practice came only after 6th kuy (1st green belt), or something like that.
Good video. I have read many comments and had discussions with Karate black belts who say that Kata is the most important thing they do. That mentality causes Karate to lose credibility. The most important thing in any art is learning how to manage combat. There are many tools and practices that help effective instructors accomplish this and kata is one of those not the only one or most important one. It is actually the least important. Boxer's, Kickboxer's, and MMA fighter's shadow box and is a perfect example of Kata (which means patterns of movement) being used in other fighting arts. A lot of really good professional fighters and others in very effective combat arts that fight from all ranges of combat look down on Karate, TWD, and Kung Fu for the simple fact that Kata is emphasized over the overall goal of learning how to fight and manage combat. The really good Karate schools get that and view Kata just another form of practice just like how a boxer might use the heavy bag or shadow boxing. I run a Ju-Jitsu based school that is equal parts striking, grappling, takedowns, submissions, and self-defense. At the end of every belt test I do what I call a hot box where each student takes a turn in the middle of the circle of students and has to fight multiple students/instructors for at least one minute and sometimes up to 3 minutes depending on how I feel that day there are virtually no rules (except no eye gouges or groin strikes) at about 75% percent contact. I even had a student get out of an arm bar during this one time by biting the leg of one of the attackers. I do this to simulate the chaos of fighting and to teach my students they aren't going to win every fight and that the lesson is to never quit fighting.
Excellent, your analysis is on target keep going --the journey is the way
Yes, that's close to how my Sensei teaches Karate. First you learn how to stand, when you can stand you learn how to move, when you can move you can learn how to use your arms and legs to block and/or attack. Kata comes after you learned those basics. Sparing comes last. But Sensei never mentioned Motobu.
You relayed that really nicely then!
This is exactly what I've been doing with the blog #backstreetkarate, trying to re-educate Karate-Ka today. They already know it, but just not doing it as intended. OSU 🙂
Glad this came up on my home page
I like the 💡 idea
Nicely done.
Nice video. There at the end you are describing something called the Trivium. I think you will find that interesting. Thanks from Texas.
A really interesting take, I like it a lot. However, it might not have been the accepted norm as a teaching process. My understanding is that Okinawan masters would reveal the "secrets" of karate to one or two students after much practise. Motobu seems to have taught these "secrets" before kata was even considered. In modern times senseis, generally, are not well versed enough in their kata to teach all the techniques available in each kata in a practical way. Hence the reliance on the kata as a 'dance' to be learned for grading and the rest of the time devoted to 'sport' karate.
I practice goju ryu and my sensei always shows the bunkai before the kata
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 If it is really a realistic application that you're being shown then that's great. Unfortunately a lot of "senseis" will teach application without doing the necessary research or giving the technique/application much thought. So many teachers simply regurgitate what their own sense taught them, without question.
@@davidbrewer7451 the instructor has done full contact karate competitions as well as mma
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 I'm afraid that doesn't mean he knows/has researched the original applications. I have no doubt, however, that he is a very good fighter.
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 Ahhhhh!
There is no one fits all in any form of discipline, in any walk of life there are those who stand out from the crowd,. Those are the ones who put all they have into what they do, to get the best they can out of themselves. The truth is the majority of people who enter a Karate Dojo to train with a teacher want to be led, they don't want to think for themselves or stand out from the crowd. A good teacher will do their best to bring the best out of the student by whatever means applies to that given student. If the student wants to achieve then 90% of the effort lies with that student. A good teacher will help student get where they want to be much quicker than If the teacher is not good at his job, but a good student will find his way to learn even from a bad Sensei. What i am basically saying is Karate is like any other discipline, the student must really want to achieve, mentally, physically and spiritually over years of training is the only way forward. but it is the physical input and attitude that gets you there and everyone has a different approach as to how they get there.A good teacher gets to know the student, so they can work together to achieve that student goals. Today there is too much analysis and criticism of Sensei and systems. There are a lot of variables when speaking on any subject, Martial Arts are no different, not very many join a Karate club because they want to be the best fighter and not very many leave after many years of training with the ability to be an even average fighter, but that does not mean they did not achieve what they came looking for in the first place. Fighters will be fighters no matter what Martial Discipline they decide upon or none. Good teachers will always be an asset to get the best from a fighter, but the most thing they need is hunger and drive, a teacher or coach can help with this but cannot create it, if it is not in the make up of the student. I know we are discussing Fighting, but Martial Arts are a much bigger subject, Sensei Motobu may have been a very good teacher but if all his teaching was based on the fighting aspect of the Martial Arts, then i would say, he was dealing with a very small minority of Martial Arts practitioners. Just as an adjunct, the majority of students of Martial arts develop confidence in their everyday life from their training, lots develop spatial awareness, learn to carry themselves well in society, become leaders in their field of endeavor, they develop a sense of awareness of the energy that prevails their surroundings, they develop enough knowledge about self defense to keep them out of trouble. Some become very proficient within the skills of self defense and some others become top sports practitioners in their individual systems or in mixed Martial sport, some more become combat instructors or practitioners etc. So Martial practice may be of benefit to the world in lots of ways that i have barely touched on here, it is really up to the individual. As in the Military, not everybody is going to become top class in their field, even if they spend years serving.
Thank you so much for the information🥋🥋
I trained in traditional karate back in the day. Must have learned at least 30 kata. I still train, but only do a few kata. My training is fighting centric. It's all about functionality. Have you seen Muay Boran kata? No need for the bunkai concept there. The moves are brutal and obvious.
Muay boran has kata? I didn't know!
@@fulviorsc ruclips.net/video/iNyGM97jrR4/видео.html
@@Docinaplane thanks! You're great!
@@fulviorsc Thx, Brother!
The GREAT problem is....most people think in terms of a "fight". And in a fight we see people exchanging techniques...there is a back and forth. Well that's for sport, or for the dojo, or for some sort of challenge match. But once you're old enough to no longer be on the school playground...you should also no longer be engaged in such fights. So regarding movement....ask yourself why you are standing in front of a potential trouble maker? Why would you stand there? Once you realize someone presents potential trouble....use movement to LEAVE! If you're not there he can't attack you! If for some reason you're unable to leave....then ATTACK! Use a pre-emptive attack. Don't wait for someone to attack you. And if that is not an option and the attacker has gone first....you must counter-attack! And in real life there will be no time to judge timing, etc.
The type of movement caught in martial arts or boxing is of limited use in real life. You will not be able to move around like in the ring or dojo. Why do I say this? As you're reading this just look around you...what do you see? I'm going to bet you don't see very much room to move around! Walk to another room and look around...again you won't see much room to move around. Go outside and look around...what do you see? Lot's of obstacles and obstructions! Cars, walls, fences, trees, shrubs, light posts, mail boxes, curbs, etc. Now take a moment and just try doing some of your footwork in these places...I'll bet you'll quickly see the problem. You will not just be fighting another person but also fighting against the environment...your focus will be split between not getting hit and not tripping or stumbling....this is not a good thing!
Great video. Thank you.
Excelent analissis good explanation
This video describes everything that Ashihara Kara Te addresses for self defense combative style of Kara Te.
Unlike Kyokushin, the toe to toe brawling style, Ashihara focuses greatly upon developing Taisabaki evasiveness to flank & maneuver upon one's adversary like a ghost to avoid damage much like a western boxer.
Methinks that is a very decent way to teach - especially if teaching someone who isn't already an experienced fighter & there's sufficient time to teach prior to a student needing to fight (in other words it's excellent for say teaching a young family member as in traditional father-to-son instruction).*
* = Some things can be skipped or put on the back-burner if training someone who already has some degree of fighting skill...
And, if having to quickly train students to fight due to say impending military action or students being in a rough neighborhood, then I would use a different approach [after giving a quick lesson in prayer I'd start out teaching quick-to-learn-&-apply rudimentary fighting techniques akin to a quick commando-like course & then as time allows I would get into teaching the student(s) a martial art - expanding upon the rudimentary skills already digested: showing & drilling the finer details to strengthen understanding & experience].
It's best to know technique before knowing kata/forms - or at least to learn them both simultaneously; for, technique is very important & practicing kata/forms without knowledge of techniques is largely a meaningless waste of time for fighting purposes ('though not a total waste of time).
"Monkey" Motobu... One of my brutal favourites.
The question comes up with kata, is it to show exactly the application like kungfu?
Or is karate kata there to remind the practitioner of the applications?
And so those modifications that you need to make create the solo applications you practice. Again like kungfu.
Does the book have photos?
Moves, techniques, kata, whatever you want to call it... are only vehicles to teach concepts in a particular context. You can't tell someone "use centrifugal force to redirect the power in that strike" , but you can point out which concepts are at play when you are working a particular technique defensive technique against strikes. That said, practical mastery comes from sparring and lots of it. Without sparring you do not learn to apply techniques under pressure or the artificial constraint of katas happening in a prescribed sequence. Without practicing techniques under pressure and in response to unrehearsed, ideally randomized opponent actions, then you will struggle for effectiveness whenever your opponent deviates from the sequence and timing of kata. Put simply, kata gets your body moving in the right general way with appropriate responses to standardized stimuli, but you absolutely must spar to move beyond that kata, and fight fluidly using concepts against an enemy that could care less about what kata says their response should be.
Motobu was focused on fighting. Most karate do today is focused on Kata and or combat sports. I.e. MMA, kick boxing, and/or tournament sparring.
Epic beard man!
Interesting but I feel the importance of the mental aspect is quite underestimated. Somebody who would train only fundamentals and/or alone for months or years would develop some kind of fear of the opposition (fear of being hurt, fear of losing, fear of being ridicule...), compared to somebody who would have been allowed to try a light very unperfect sparring.
I don’t disagree with the value of sparring. However you want to also take into consideration the reality woven into the intensity of the two person drills and fundamentals. Done correctly the intensity of those drills continues to increase as the person gains more confidence and skill.
The only thing that should be different about sparring from the main training should be the unexpected nature of it being unscripted. The confidence gained through working with a partner, both compliant and resisting, should take away the development of that fear.
It seems to me that modern combat sports you can uncover roots of TMA
Writing has to have a form that other person can understand and read. Its communication. Fighting does not or should not have a form that can be read. In combat you would like to have the best possible technique your body-mind can do. You can improve your body, knowledge and technique, but its all about your own skills and at bests its not the same as others. Learning a ”perfectly” copied technique or kata might not be the best choice for your apilities. So even if the method of learning would be good, if you learn not so good things…(and as I wrote in previous comment, our understanding of learning and teaching motor skills has develope in resent decade.)
great video
But it is unclear to me if these are Motobu Choki’s words ir Kyan Chotoku’s words. Still super informative and valuable no matter who spoke them and definitely the Motobu clan’s training philosophy
This is how Karate should be taught. Would be much more logical and fun!
Kata is taught first because Funokoshi wanted karate to be part of the school currículum . Universities were just a easier entry way and you don't want little kids geting hurt . Much less brain concussions
Little kids can't punch each other hard enough to cause concussions.
Well, I think it can be done either way. there are many people in karate that becoming strong people. the thing is, not everyone want to become a strong people
Let's face it. I dont know how it is in your gym, but have you ever seen people go to the mma gym not to learn to fight? They just want activity, they want to be fit and some other else. it is why many karate dojo doing kata first. it is to separate people that want to do fight and people that just want to do karate
Also, there are people who want to only can fight for self defense, and there are also people that want to fight on higher level of fighting
You have a lot to learn.
Emphasis on Kata first is a way for teachers to attract and retain paying students. Sooner hit = sooner quit = less income. Same rationale today behind multiple belt levels and tournament trophies. 😢
There’s a lot of truth in what you said here.
First time here. Enjoyed your video. Epic beard. So, how MANY kata to maintain? Maybe you already talked about this, I’ll take a look at your other videos.
How many indeed. Welcome and glad to have you! Give a look at this video in particular ruclips.net/video/iJxc2ZSfuK8/видео.html, though I have another coming out soon that will build on this so be sure to subscribe so you don't miss it!
@@kenfutv thanks for the reference that’s a great video. I’ve had very similar thoughts, and you and I have a similar background.
Kevin can wait
This is interesting and a bit confusing . You mention that what you are reading begins on page 80 in the section "What to know about training" You also imply that this is instruction by Motobu Choki. I have this book for quite a few years and in my copy "What to know about Training" is on page 48...not 80. The section reads just as you quoted "Teaching should take place in the following order...." etc. but as I stated....in my copy it's page 48. Also it isn't written by Motobu. It's in the earlier sections of the book and is written by Kyan Chotoku from his "What to know about fighting."
Makes a lotter sense practice practice
cool retro shirt bro
It may help to add that Motobu didn't practice all of the same data as other styles. This point makes it a little more understandable as to how sparring could be started before kata. It's not going to take you as long to get to that point under his tutelage
Hah, Kenfu. That's funny.
Good points. Although i find alot missing from kata. Maybe they are showing there age.
I think posture is important in order to protect the "mohawk". Boxers strike to the body and leave the Mohawk open. Mma fighters shoot and dive for the body and leave the mohawk open. Some MMA fighters TURN THEIR FACE AWAY AND EXPOSE THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD TO PROTECT THEIR FACE...SMDH. the straight posture in Karate protects the one place on the human body that you can strike and kill a much larger opponent.
Motobu family name, Choki given name.
I know it's not necessarily about the training, but I am disappointed you glossed over the true first point: what karate is and is not. I imagine it helps to sort out the students that one does and does not want, and it may help properly define or redefine student expectations, which will ultimately result in a stronger learning environment in the dojo. But, back to the your video; sparring should absolutely be the final point of training, in my opinion. Having trained trained technique for so much time already (presumably), the sparring can properly incorporate the actual technique practiced. Modern tournament kumite is the best and most shameful example of what happens when training through sparring in not built around a solid foundation of actual karate. Lastly, all the training in preparation for sparring helps ensure that students has spent some time developing control and refining their technique. This helps prevents injuries during sparring, as nobody voluntarily goes to train so that they can receive injuries.
Don't traditional Chinese Martial Arts like Seven Star Praying Mantis have a lot of kata? www.northernmantis.com/forms/
If Japanese martial came from Chinese Martial Arts then how come it originally didn't have alot of kata? Were most of the kata in traditional Chinese martial mostly useless?
There are some mysteries still in kata, things that aren’t explained in bunkai. As example, why are some moves done slowly, like outside block in Sanchin katas?
probably just breathing exercise, or sometimes body awareness exercise
Kata does many things one thing it does is train you on sequence of attacks and defenses. 2nd the repetition of kata teaches you Mushin in which you do a movement over and over again until there is no thought involved in it.When you drive a car you are basically practicing Kata you hit the accelerator you hit the brakes you hit the accelerator you hit the brakes you do this over let's say 30 years of driving probably over 100000 times. It gets to a point where you will see something run out in front of you and your foot will hit the brake before you think about it. That is the ultimate goal of Kata, but ine thing you did not mention is bunkai. Bunkai is the interpretation of Kata.We did nit go from Kata to fighting.We went from Kata ti Bunkai to Fighting..Mr. Miyagi in the karate kid was teaching Daniel Kata by painting the fence and washing waxing the car
He then taught him bunkai and at that point Daniel had an epiphany. MOTOBU only believed 1 Kata was necessary for combat and that was Nai Hanchi..
👑✨👌
Very interesting, it makes total sense to me.
Your hair grows upside down...:p
The repetitive practice of karate kata sharpen individual techniques and combinations. But, the practitioner must understand and repeatedly practice the applications of the techniques within the kata against various opponents with different mentalities. Also, any solo karate practice requires imagination and emotion to the point that you can "feel" the impact of your blocks and strikes against your opponent. If you're not worn out after doing kata, then you probably didn't do it correctly. Mindless kata can fool some kata judges, but not thugs who are trying to kill you. Much of the world view karate as a fighting art. If you can't apply your karate techniques in a real fight, then it's best not to let people know you're a karateka - particularly in areas of America where people still has the Old West mentally. Sooner than later, you will be challenged...and they couldn't care less about the other aspects and benefits of karate training!
Kata is like playing Neil Young songs to learn guitar.
Kata works best if one understands the meaning behind it.
I think the real "Miyagi" was Fumio Demura. He is a high ranking martial artist in Shito-ryu karate. Kenwa Mabuni was Shito-Ryu's founder. Mabuni was a student Itosu and so was Motobu and Funakoshi? That is why it made sense when you quoted "not be there" and what you alluded is balance. Striking, trapping and blocking are dependent upon timing and free sparring tests your timing because like Sifu Jwing ming said: "Your enemy, not stupid" . In some TKD dojos, the one step sparring especially from white to green belt is no longer taught. It is just to learn the application of the movement of the Hyungs or kata. They have instead this Tae-Guk which wasn't taught in the early '70's. 10:46 You just reminded me of what my TJD teacher used to say about kata. First, thing to learn when you write is the alphabet; you struggle, then sentences with ease , then paragraphs- kata is that way Thank you for letting us know the source for the book.
you can see all this in Conor McGregor and the way he fights
Tony Ferguson
What did Itosu think of Motobu's thoughts on kata? What did Matsumura think about it all? Motobu was wrong and his ideas should be ignored from history.
Ah the white belt defense, once I was black
Morio HIGAONNA Say :
Karaté without kata is not karaté !
cut the stupid annoying background music,to distracting.
Shave