I am leaning towards another bmw collab.. I think they will give it an s58 to start with maybe mild hybrid before going full electric. My wish is Toyota made a legit i6 in house.. but considering they are downsizing everything (the Tacoma doesn’t even have a v6 option anymore ☹️) and they want to hit 1.5m electric I think that’s the way they are heading. Sports cars in general all seem to be heading in the ev direction.. it’s not a bad thing for fast fucking cars.. but tuning / customizing is going to be near impossible. I think manufacturers love the idea of being able to not only sell us the car but now charge us subscriptions possibly charge for “unlocks” and special features. I love the possibility of a torque monster that electric produces.. I don’t want to sit in a parking lot for 20 minutes to charge it.. I don’t know why if the governments really want ev to be standard didn’t mandate a quick switch battery system where you pull into a station they open the battery compartment swap the low one for the fully charged and you’re on your way. They put it on their charge rack.
The fans have spoken, but Toyota never listened, they, like all automakers today like to waste billions of dollars 😆 in this case an ugly non retro, non affordable BMW that no real Supra fan would ever want. What the hell made them actually think that would work? 😂
I wanted to buy a Supra but because the dealers were asking 15-20k over the MSRP I decided to buy a different car. I believe your analysis is spot on. Dealers play a key role in killing this car by asking an unreasonable price.
I don't get it, there are none here in the west coast. Mark ups and people are buying. Feels like dealers are limiting inventory to sell at a higher price and increase margin at consumer and manufacturer cost.
All these videos are dumb. I've been actively searching for Supras in SoCal for a year. On average, I see 5k dealer markup and they STILL sell. Sales figures are low because production numbers are low. Every dealership says they get maybe one every 3-6 months and they have no idea what trim it will be in. That having been said, I finally have manual in the exact trim and spec I want coming this month. $2k over MSRP but includes a GPS alarm system
As someone who recently started looking into the new Supra market the real truth of slowing sales is Toyota tapering production numbers of the Supra for model end of life. Look at any Toyota allocation sheet for the Supras and you’ll find very few allocations that aren’t in dealer hold status or already sold. There are maybe one or two in the nation that are sitting on lots. The demand for this car is there and all that are produced will sell. There’s not some magic surplus of Supras sitting on dealer lots.
It just wasn't available, right from launch. The scarce inventory resulting from the chip shortage drove the dealer markup. I had cash in hand for over 2 years and there were none to be found in the 8 dealerships I've called and went in person. I ended up buying a house and my obsession faded. Same is happening with the z.
Supras are dropping in price and are on average like 51k right now. Some pre 22 years are even like 46k. The overly expensive supras at dealers are mostly just the anniversary trims or brand new manual trims. If somebody really wanted a supra and wanted a low mileage used one, this is actually the best time to get one lol
The market was absurd at the time of this video. A lot of autos had an ugly markup, not as bad as the MTs or anniversaries though. The question is, where are the prices going to settle lol
I own a Supra, and I work at a dealership. Why aren’t they selling? They don’t build that many. There are 600 allocated to the US right now. They have markups because people pay them. Simple as that. You cant get a discount on a car that has high demand a limited supply, basic economics. Just to add, there are ~1300 Toyota dealerships and only 600 Supras allocated. It was always meant to be a low production vehicle. If you want a mass produced sports car then get a Mustang.
What about the ‘23 BRZ? They are just as bad to allocate, ask around or look for yourself - “limited production” apparently, said by every dealer. Yet, nearly no markups on them with a high demand from consumers. Dealers to blame here.
@@JTelesco I cant see Brz production, but I can see it for the GR86 and there are 4500 allocated to the US right now. Im not defending markup, Im just correcting you. The premise that the Supra is a flop and that it is going away because no one is buying it is false.
If you look carefully you'll notice that BMW Z4 sales have increased. I wouldn't be surprised if BMW allocations take priority over Toyotas and potentially hinder supply. Add to that Toyota's opaque ordering system, terrible dealership experience and you're guaranteed to lose sales. I have an order in at the moment and I'm mid way though a 7 month wait (supposedly). I'm having trouble staying on the Supra cart tbh. I've nearly jumped ship several times but I genuinely feel this might be one of the last opportunities to bag a car like this so I'm hanging in there.
They stated before production started it was going to slow down and end with the 2025 model year. Sucks but it is a business. Not many people can afford it with rates as they are. Lucky enough to get mine before the price jumps. And working for Toyota helped for sure.
i actually saw a manual supra on sale in a dealer's website a week ago with 3000 dollars of discount. I called them and asked if I can trade my auto supra for the manual and they said no because it's not going to sell for them
It sounds like _they're_ not going to sell it, versus _it's_ not going to sell. Spring is around the corner, I'm sure they can get rid of it at fair price.
I don't believe it's so much the general interest in the supra, more so the absurd markup that nobody wants to pay for -- interested in the car or not.
@@JTelesco there definitely won't be any interest at all if they come out with an all-electric or hybrid version of the supposed 2026 supra...but you know they are going to do it anyway
Maybe it’s not selling because nobody can deliver one to me… dealers have no idea when it’s gonna arrive. What colors they’re going to have and I cannot order one… the few dealers that do have it want 15,000 over sticker… if it’s not selling it’s on them.
This is nothing new. The mk4 Supra was a sales flop as well. But the Supra has added much needed enthusiasm for the Toyota brand even though it didn’t make them much profit. This why manufacturers are reluctant to build sports cars in general because it’s high risk low reward.
its weird that us is paying over mrsp and cant get allocation for a car while here in thailand i just order a gr supra MT lightning yellow last mounth waiting for delivery in april.
Me too. Ordered one in orange last month and it’s arriving in May! 😂😂😂 BTW, have you thought about waiting for the 2025 updated version? I thought about it but still getting the 2024.
@@invasion1824 I think 2025 will be the mostly same with some extra sent off production variant like GRMN Supra or final edition something like that and only the GRMN is expected to have major hardware change but it’s probably double the price of the base Supra also the current Supra is what I wanted a good manual sports car fits the bill it’s already making 387hp which is more then fast enough have wireless CarPlay and rear back up camera with good brakes and handling I don’t think an extra 20-40hp and some extra gimmicks will make to much of a difference plus the Grmn is almost guaranteed to be an automatic and build in limited numbers and will be sold out and taken by big international market like USA China Japan and many other markets I don’t think here in Thailand we will even get a chance to buy one unless we pay some crazy price.
the costs are still too much for average person to buy and then also why would someone buy a supra when they can get a nice do it all car like a 4runner, tacoma, tundra, tesla, jeep, and ,any more other suvs. More people in america just need a sedan/suv/ or truck. Sucks but at least the supras will drop in price for the manuals hopefully. Maybe in a year or 2 i can own a manual supra
Well supra is definitely a "fun car", very much less practical or utilitarian lol. Feel like it could've been downscaled a bit to be more affordable, less BMW, more Toyota.
M240i is a better, AWD Supra coupe. However yeah no manual otherwise I’d go that route and deal with bmw dealerships instead of these scammer Toyota dealers.
Think the GRMN edition is getting a front and rear update.. supposed to be last edition before they rumored ground up new model.. they rumors are a 2025 new gen.. I think it goes on hiatus for a couple of years since we don’t even have an actual concept debut let alone road testers.. I would love for them to go back to a self developed i6.. maybe they will buy out the tech from bmw once they move to their next gen motor and make the b58 in house? I hope they give us at least one more Ice generation.. I am loving that the used market is starting to come down too.. realistically I feel used 20-22 should be mid 40’s for 3.0 mid 30s for 2.0. I also think they should have went awd for the 2.0 to separate it more from the 86.. just some random thoughts I e had while I shop for my next car.. it will likely be the Supra but the bmw m240i would probably be a better commuter / daily.
@@RobsReviv A facelift would be cool to see for sure. More than anything, a reasonable price drop though. The numbers you said are not bad, hopefully we see something like that soon.
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Curious to know what your predictions are for the A90? And the future of sports cars?
I am leaning towards another bmw collab.. I think they will give it an s58 to start with maybe mild hybrid before going full electric. My wish is Toyota made a legit i6 in house.. but considering they are downsizing everything (the Tacoma doesn’t even have a v6 option anymore ☹️) and they want to hit 1.5m electric I think that’s the way they are heading.
Sports cars in general all seem to be heading in the ev direction.. it’s not a bad thing for fast fucking cars.. but tuning / customizing is going to be near impossible. I think manufacturers love the idea of being able to not only sell us the car but now charge us subscriptions possibly charge for “unlocks” and special features. I love the possibility of a torque monster that electric produces.. I don’t want to sit in a parking lot for 20 minutes to charge it.. I don’t know why if the governments really want ev to be standard didn’t mandate a quick switch battery system where you pull into a station they open the battery compartment swap the low one for the fully charged and you’re on your way. They put it on their charge rack.
Exactly this! The Stealerships back at it again
In my opinion the dealers have a big part in it's lack luster sales. Slap a 10-20k markup on a car I want, it becomes irrelevant to me.
57k car for 20k over.. yea.. nope not gonna buy that lol
Could not have set it better dude, needle in a haystack at this point
Dealerships themselves is what ruin the platform. There is a want and a long wait to get one
Yep, markups played a big role here
Owner of a 2023 MKV here. it's not selling cuz no one wants to buy a car that has a 10-25k markup. dealers are stupid
Fact
0 markup dealership Toyota supra has a 12-20 month waitlist right now. They won't even let me waitlist
The fans have spoken, but Toyota never listened, they, like all automakers today like to waste billions of dollars 😆 in this case an ugly non retro, non affordable BMW that no real Supra fan would ever want. What the hell made them actually think that would work? 😂
Eh, design is an acquired taste. Unfortunately price tag is the regular too these days
@@JTelesco NO, design is retro if it wants success with a classic name! Look at Mustang, Challenger, etc.
Nobody have the right mind keep up with the sales number of a car, and nobody lives under a rock because of it.
I wanted to buy a Supra but because the dealers were asking 15-20k over the MSRP I decided to buy a different car. I believe your analysis is spot on. Dealers play a key role in killing this car by asking an unreasonable price.
dealerships are a major issue.. bunch of crooks.
I don't get it, there are none here in the west coast. Mark ups and people are buying. Feels like dealers are limiting inventory to sell at a higher price and increase margin at consumer and manufacturer cost.
Great point. Wish I looked more into that and mentioned it in the video. The GR86 / BRZ also have "inventory issues", pretty interesting indeed.
Not here we got a total of 17 for sale, shows msrp but i havent checked out the dooor price yet cause im still deciding
All these videos are dumb. I've been actively searching for Supras in SoCal for a year. On average, I see 5k dealer markup and they STILL sell. Sales figures are low because production numbers are low. Every dealership says they get maybe one every 3-6 months and they have no idea what trim it will be in. That having been said, I finally have manual in the exact trim and spec I want coming this month. $2k over MSRP but includes a GPS alarm system
@Soulquarian opposite for me, I see 5k in dealer incentives and now 20 in stock
As someone who recently started looking into the new Supra market the real truth of slowing sales is Toyota tapering production numbers of the Supra for model end of life. Look at any Toyota allocation sheet for the Supras and you’ll find very few allocations that aren’t in dealer hold status or already sold. There are maybe one or two in the nation that are sitting on lots. The demand for this car is there and all that are produced will sell. There’s not some magic surplus of Supras sitting on dealer lots.
Dealership or Stealership greed selling above MSRP
It just wasn't available, right from launch. The scarce inventory resulting from the chip shortage drove the dealer markup. I had cash in hand for over 2 years and there were none to be found in the 8 dealerships I've called and went in person. I ended up buying a house and my obsession faded. Same is happening with the z.
Interesting, I see a ton online lol
Dealerships, and an announcement of a GRMN has everyone waiting to see wtf its going to be.
GRMN will be limited edition and very expensive. That’s why I’m still getting the 2024 supra in orange.
@@invasion1824 I really want to see that color in person. I hear its much more orange in person.
@@TheOnlyTwitchR6 I’ll PPF the car so it’ll become matt orange 😝
Supras are dropping in price and are on average like 51k right now. Some pre 22 years are even like 46k. The overly expensive supras at dealers are mostly just the anniversary trims or brand new manual trims. If somebody really wanted a supra and wanted a low mileage used one, this is actually the best time to get one lol
The market was absurd at the time of this video. A lot of autos had an ugly markup, not as bad as the MTs or anniversaries though. The question is, where are the prices going to settle lol
I own a Supra, and I work at a dealership. Why aren’t they selling? They don’t build that many. There are 600 allocated to the US right now. They have markups because people pay them. Simple as that. You cant get a discount on a car that has high demand a limited supply, basic economics.
Just to add, there are ~1300 Toyota dealerships and only 600 Supras allocated. It was always meant to be a low production vehicle. If you want a mass produced sports car then get a Mustang.
What about the ‘23 BRZ? They are just as bad to allocate, ask around or look for yourself - “limited production” apparently, said by every dealer. Yet, nearly no markups on them with a high demand from consumers. Dealers to blame here.
@@JTelesco I cant see Brz production, but I can see it for the GR86 and there are 4500 allocated to the US right now. Im not defending markup, Im just correcting you. The premise that the Supra is a flop and that it is going away because no one is buying it is false.
If you look carefully you'll notice that BMW Z4 sales have increased. I wouldn't be surprised if BMW allocations take priority over Toyotas and potentially hinder supply. Add to that Toyota's opaque ordering system, terrible dealership experience and you're guaranteed to lose sales. I have an order in at the moment and I'm mid way though a 7 month wait (supposedly). I'm having trouble staying on the Supra cart tbh. I've nearly jumped ship several times but I genuinely feel this might be one of the last opportunities to bag a car like this so I'm hanging in there.
Well hopefully you land one at reasonable price. Cool cars for sure, just behind the markup paywall lol
They stated before production started it was going to slow down and end with the 2025 model year. Sucks but it is a business. Not many people can afford it with rates as they are. Lucky enough to get mine before the price jumps. And working for Toyota helped for sure.
So you’re getting the 2024 before the new model and price jumps?
there's like 50 for sale in AZ and all the clowns who are upside down on em are still trying to get 50+k
Wonder if they at least take you out to dinner before you pay that
@@JTelesco Im tracking the Z4 m40i market and sporadically offering $30-$35k for some gr supras.
I wouldn't sell my tunable 21 for anything under 60k, and mine is paid off.
@@O5rx8Mazda Your gonna holding on to that think a very long time brother
Toyota was ramping down production. This car production cycle was pre determined. 2019-2025
Honestly I blame the dealerships they wanna mark cars up 20k+ low key kinda outrageous probably s big factor as to why stuff ain't sellin
For sure. Sales would look a lot nicer if they were fairly priced
Damn and Toyota doesn’t mess around, production will either be cut or they’re going to make it even crazier (S58) 👀
Production cut, S58 wouldn’t do much for sales imo
What’s going to be scary is going to be the price. 😂😂😂
i actually saw a manual supra on sale in a dealer's website a week ago with 3000 dollars of discount. I called them and asked if I can trade my auto supra for the manual and they said no because it's not going to sell for them
it's in upstate new york, and it's january, that's probably why
It sounds like _they're_ not going to sell it, versus _it's_ not going to sell. Spring is around the corner, I'm sure they can get rid of it at fair price.
Most of the old money that can afford these new car prices has no interest in a manual JDM throwback. Its not rocket surgery.
I don't believe it's so much the general interest in the supra, more so the absurd markup that nobody wants to pay for -- interested in the car or not.
@@JTelesco there definitely won't be any interest at all if they come out with an all-electric or hybrid version of the supposed 2026 supra...but you know they are going to do it anyway
Maybe it’s not selling because nobody can deliver one to me… dealers have no idea when it’s gonna arrive. What colors they’re going to have and I cannot order one… the few dealers that do have it want 15,000 over sticker… if it’s not selling it’s on them.
Marketing at its finest
Called plaza Toyota in Brooklyn NY and the guy over the phone whispered that there will be a pretty high mark up. Told him no thank you
At least he was honest lol
At some point the prices should come down
at some point christmas is coming too
So my question is what do they do with the Supras that dont sell?
They sit on the lot
This is nothing new. The mk4 Supra was a sales flop as well. But the Supra has added much needed enthusiasm for the Toyota brand even though it didn’t make them much profit. This why manufacturers are reluctant to build sports cars in general because it’s high risk low reward.
its weird that us is paying over mrsp and cant get allocation for a car while here in thailand i just order a gr supra MT lightning yellow last mounth waiting for delivery in april.
What a market we are in indeed. Hello from US though! 👋
Me too. Ordered one in orange last month and it’s arriving in May! 😂😂😂 BTW, have you thought about waiting for the 2025 updated version? I thought about it but still getting the 2024.
@@invasion1824 I think 2025 will be the mostly same with some extra sent off production variant like GRMN Supra or final edition something like that and only the GRMN is expected to have major hardware change but it’s probably double the price of the base Supra also the current Supra is what I wanted a good manual sports car fits the bill it’s already making 387hp which is more then fast enough have wireless CarPlay and rear back up camera with good brakes and handling I don’t think an extra 20-40hp and some extra gimmicks will make to much of a difference plus the Grmn is almost guaranteed to be an automatic and build in limited numbers and will be sold out and taken by big international market like USA China Japan and many other markets I don’t think here in Thailand we will even get a chance to buy one unless we pay some crazy price.
Glad I bought mine when I did
Got in early
They don’t have any in stock
Not surprised lol
mmmm, if the inside looked like a Toyota and not a BMW, I might buy one, and the 6M is on waiting list in my area for 2024
Wonder what msrp would look like if it was full toyota lol, 43k or so
What r u talking about. Toyota’s look like 🤮 on the inside 😅
The GR86 is slow af but is "affordable"
fact brother twin gang
I like everything about the 86 except the Subaru engine.. granted it was a forester but I had one as a company car and it was nothing but problems.
the costs are still too much for average person to buy and then also why would someone buy a supra when they can get a nice do it all car like a 4runner, tacoma, tundra, tesla, jeep, and ,any more other suvs. More people in america just need a sedan/suv/ or truck. Sucks but at least the supras will drop in price for the manuals hopefully. Maybe in a year or 2 i can own a manual supra
Well supra is definitely a "fun car", very much less practical or utilitarian lol. Feel like it could've been downscaled a bit to be more affordable, less BMW, more Toyota.
Its an acquired taste🤷♂️.
Yes best way to put it. But they have grown on me after seeing them in person.
good. the less they sell the more mine is worth.
kek
Yes less they make more I can get in the future it’s a modern car with old styling
The car is almost perfect IMO, but they need to release a similar car with 4/5 seats and same engine and manual available.
Well there is a manual option for these cars now, problem is the markups lol. 2+2 in these cars would be cool though agree
M240i is a better, AWD Supra coupe. However yeah no manual otherwise I’d go that route and deal with bmw dealerships instead of these scammer Toyota dealers.
They need a redesign badly it's just not that cool as they thought it was.
Facelift or something would be neat, ‘24 A91 could’ve used it
It’s cool AF
Think the GRMN edition is getting a front and rear update.. supposed to be last edition before they rumored ground up new model.. they rumors are a 2025 new gen.. I think it goes on hiatus for a couple of years since we don’t even have an actual concept debut let alone road testers.. I would love for them to go back to a self developed i6.. maybe they will buy out the tech from bmw once they move to their next gen motor and make the b58 in house? I hope they give us at least one more Ice generation..
I am loving that the used market is starting to come down too.. realistically I feel used 20-22 should be mid 40’s for 3.0 mid 30s for 2.0.
I also think they should have went awd for the 2.0 to separate it more from the 86.. just some random thoughts I e had while I shop for my next car.. it will likely be the Supra but the bmw m240i would probably be a better commuter / daily.
@@RobsReviv A facelift would be cool to see for sure. More than anything, a reasonable price drop though. The numbers you said are not bad, hopefully we see something like that soon.
don't worry, they will and are getting ready to ruin it completely by making a hybrid or all-electric...then nobody will want it
All the suckers that paid over MSRP have run out.
So now what, price drop? Think at least 2 years before that, also depends on if Toyota continues the supra after the a91