@@dm19609721 Proper usage of a dipstick requires much longer than 30 seconds. See my dipstick video to find out why ruclips.net/video/s-tHJ2Q_BbA/видео.html
WeberAuto Hello master,5:09 min what is diagnostic name use? how cheking(diagnostic) electronik transmission ? can you say what computer programm? please.
One of the best car maintenance videos I've ever seen. Every aspect of this, from John's wealth of experience to the clear explanations to the super sharp and well-lit images is exactly what a person needs. Thank you!
First time I saw someone who goes to slow pace to explain so clear the procedure I really appreciate you take your time and I hope see more from Chrysler 300 Rwd 3.6 pentastar thanks
Excellent video. a few points... 1) When the cooler bypass valve is closed, the fluid won't go to the cooler, and when it's open, fluid goes through. 2) If you're just doing a fluid level check without maintenance, the cooler bypass being open or closed won't make a difference as it will remain filled with no air one way or the other. If you' have done maintenance, then driving around until the fluid temp is 180F or higher would ensure that the cooler has been filled.
You're great professor and person,share $1,000 dollars class for free. Personally me thank you for your public service. Every time I watch your videos I learned something
John, I think the bypass valve will be a 3 port device providing a "constant volume" system whereas a 2 port valve will provide a variable volume system. If it is indeed a 3 port valve then the transmission oil volume does not vary regardless of whether the valve is open or closed, it simply either flows through the cooler or bypasses the cooler. This is basically very much like what is used in HVAC control and a constant volume prevent head/pump pressure increasing whereas a 2 port system tries to pump against a dead end and the head increases. I'm not sure I've explained it precisely enough but the fundamental is to ask the ZF guy whether the bypass valve is 3 port or 2 port. If 3 port then all is good and no need to worry about oil volume because the volume is constant. As an aside what a cack eyed system ZF seem to have created!
This information is priceless.. All that said. The process, simply put is Convoluted. $43 a quart, and the Trans takes up to 6 qt. this cost doesn't include the filter. What in the world was Chrysler thinking.
A lot of very important information to know in order to do a transmission fluid change. Of particular note is the fact the fluid is s-p-e-c-i-f-i-c-a-l-l-y for 8 speed transmissions. Thank you for taking the time to clearly explain the full procedure. It is definitely more than a one hour Saturday afternoon job.
Thank you for the excellent educational video. I now know what to look for and avoid in a new car purchase: transmissions that require 2 days to properly check fluid levels.
WeberAuto bullshit, lifetime means under car maker warranty! after that you're on your own, transmissions have seals and cooling lines that can develop a leak. happened to me in a chevy cobalt. Car makers want, if you transmission develops a leak you can't check the level, there's no dipstick so you will drive until it starts slipping and transmission fails!
@@edvinnelius8213 In these days, ALL car manufacturers are doing this, so you have to get with the times! Some manufactures don't even have a dipstick for engine oil!!
Great information John very well explained. I installed a trans dipstick and tube on my 2011 F 150 with the 6R80 trans. No more having to play around under the truck next to that hot passenger side converter when checking the fluid level. In my view all manufactures should have an electronic display for the operator of the vehicle to check the transmission fluid level or at least a easily accessible dip stick.
Thank you! and thanks for your feedback. I was not aware that you could retrofit a 6R80 with a dipstick tube to replace the little short one under the truck. Dipsticks can lead to other problems that are now eliminated. 1st. Their accuracy has always been temperature sensitive. 2nd. They allow incorrect fluids to be easily installed. If the special fluid for this transmission is $43 USD from the Chrysler dealership and some generic fluid is $3.59 at the local auto parts chain, most people will buy the $3.59 oil because they may think that all fluids are the same, the price is the only difference. Obviously this would lead to transmission damage operational concerns. Best wishes!
This is one of the best ZF Trans videos on RUclips. My problem is when I go to different auto shops in my area to get filter/pan fluid drop, they have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. ZF fluid temp sensitive fluid change ??? One shop told me he can flush any trans made, refill with Kendal Chrysler automatic trans fluid.
Tell them to read that label on the side of the transmission oil pan right below the fluid fill/check plug. Don't let them put any other fluid in it other than the Chrysler 8-9 speed fluid or the ZF-LIFEGUARDFLUID 8 (ZF No. S671 090 312) fluid. See the video description for more information.
Best video I have seen. Clear explanation and no bs. Some of the other ones just get you off track. I have been a mechanic for a long time but some of this new stuff is a bit confusing! Thank you.
This guys knows his stuff! By the way; these combined AC Condensers/Transmission coolers are known to crack and leak refrigerant, PAG oil and dye at around 100 000 Kms. Drivers will hear the "hiss of death" while driving with the AC on. It's a common issue with all Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge brands (this part is common) and the combined condenser needs to be replaced (there's a few videos on youtube about it and how to complete it). The replacement of the condenser is relatively simple, but i doubt any technician/mechanic will complete the trans fluid check after completion of the job. If it's happened to your CJD vehicle, and you have a new A/C condenser, check your ZF 8HP transmission fluid after the repair. It's NOT a required step in the standard A/C condenser repair in the standard repair manual. Your AC will be nice a cool but the transmission may potentially be low on fluid and may lead to premature failure. Keep up the great videos.
Thank you John! I cant thank you enough for this professional video. I'm changing the fluid now on my 2014 Ram 1500. It has only 41K miles but I have towed a 9K trailer 2500 miles so just want to be safe. The part about the bypass valve and air in the lines is critical. I will do the 2 step process on 2 heat cycles after I get the temp to normal driving temps that allows the valve to open. Thanks again!!
you don't need to worry if you drain cold (cooler stays filled). you could also measure what comes out and put the same amount in (if original and no leaks) if you do just a drain (vs replace filter/pan)
Excellent tutorial from this amazing technician. It’s a good thing the ZF 8 speed is such a great transmission to use, since it’s not easy to change fluid. At least you can fall in love with the operation of it.
@Jonathan Spier You re right but how and where are you supposed to have it done when youre dealer refuses to service it and you are not capable of doing it by yourself
1. I vote for bring back the dipstick. It will achieve the same and show fluid expansion. 2. In all my years of working on cars, I've never seen a trans burn up from overfill(within reason). But all will burn up if under-filled. Remember, the fluid is meant to absorb heat.
Believe it or not I have seen a trans burn up from over filling. it was a county owned car and the county maintenance technicians managed to overfill it to the point where fluid started making it's way out side to the topside of the transmission case. You could see trans fluid pooling on top of the transmission when you opened the hood. Transmission was cooked . This was a 2010 v6 Camry. And of course the county wanted it under warranty.
@@farmboy9229 thats because they never do it and dont know how to do it. Imagine they do something wrong, what would be the cost for them? Hence the price...
This is a really easy procedure all things considered. It's amazing the prices some shops charge to do this. I've seen people quote upwards of 900 dollars for something an experienced DIY'er can do on a Sunday over a couple of beers.
Transmissions had dip sticks for decades and we've never had a problem. They shouldn't have taken them away just because not every owner is ASE certified. It's ridiculous.
Of course, am mad because of this crap" not having a dip stick to check level" it's insane insulting and ridiculous design" it's stupid" why making so much work to anyone to check level" and so" This company should be sued"😕
Presumably IF the transmission pan was drained when the engine was NOT above 160 then the bypass valve was closed and no fluid drained back into the pan and SHOULD not be affected by the temperature increase later. Notwithstanding this it would be advisable to double check after it has been run hot and the bypass valve open but I would NOT expect it to be low IF the bypass valve is working correctly Cheers from Canada North
@@Weak_juan I changed mine in my grand Cherokee at 95,000 miles. I measured what I drained out and put back in the same amount. I do want to check it sometime but it seems fine
Dealing with hydraulics for thirty years on a daily basis you would need to determine if the cooler lines do drain back while the bypass valve is hot, if so there would be no true way of checking the fluid level because the fluid would drain back every time the engine is shut off while hot, however if the cooler is isolated during the ignition off position the cooler would stay full, You did a great job with this video by the way, very detailed!
I would think that driving it for 20 minutes after you do the fluid change and than recheck it is a wise idea in any at fluid change. Second I like that there is no music playing over your voice, you get rite to the point, and you speak clear English. Thank you for a very educational video that the dealer wants $850.00 for a fluid and filter change.
No, I found out after this video that ZF recommends overfilling the transmission by 0.5 Liter (by tilting the vehicle to the driver's side) and adding the additional fluid upon the initial fluid fill to compensate for the cooler bypass issue. Thank you and Best wishes.
Jeep makes the process so easy... My manual states "To check or change your transmission fluid, bring your car to the dealership and trade it in for a new model with fresh fluid and integrated filter"
Thank you very much for the free lessons. I just subscribed because I really appreciate your videos, and the objective and informative way you teach. Your one of those great teachers that we never forget! I’m in the other side of the pound and I think you’d like to know you have many subscribers around here.
My ATF fluid research has led me to discover the following information. I document it here as well as on several Wikipedia pages I created/modified on Mercon, Dexron, Mopar, and Toyota automatic transmission fluids. Lifetime Fluids and Dipstick-less Transmissions: The 1967 Ford Type-F fluid specification was intended to produce a “lifetime” fluid that would never need to be changed. This is the first of many Ford “lifetime” fluids. The 1974 Ford Car Shop Manual reads "The automatic transmission is filled at the factory with "lifetime" fluid. If it is necessary to add or replace fluid, use only fluids which meet Ford Specification M2C33F. Many other transmission manufacturers have followed with their own "Lifetime" automatic transmission fluids". To understand how a fluid can last a "lifetime", a study of the 1939 Chrysler Fluid Drive Fluid is needed. The November 1954 edition of Lubrication Magazine (Published by The Texas Company, later known as Texaco) featured a story called "Evolution of the Chrysler PowerFlite Automatic Transmission". This article described the fluid used in the 1939 Chrysler Fluid Drive and its subsequent revisions and enhancements through 1954. A section of the feature described the lubrication of the Fluid Drive's fluid coupling, reads "The fluid drive fluid coupling is partially filled with Mopar Fluid Drive Fluid, a special highly refined straight mineral oil with a viscosity of about 185 SUS at 100° F., excellent inherent oxidation stability, high viscosity index (100), excellent ability to rapidly reject air, very low natural pour point ( -25° F.), ability to adequately lubricate the pilot ball bearing and seal surface, and neutrality towards the seal bellows. The fluid operates under almost ideal conditions in what is essentially a hermetically sealed case, the small amount of atmospheric oxygen initially present being removed by harmless reaction with the fluid so as to leave a residual inert (nitrogen) atmosphere. As a consequence, it has not been necessary to drain and replace the fluid, and the level-check recommendation has been successively extended from the original 2,500 miles to 15,500 miles and finally to "never" - or the life of the car. Since drains and level checks were not only unnecessary but frequently harmful ( through the introduction of more air, and seal-destroying dirt) Chrysler eventually left off the tempting level inspection plugs. This mechanism is therefore one of the very few that is actually lubricated for the life of the car. There are now myriad examples of couplings that have operated well over 100,000 miles without any attention whatsoever and were still in perfect condition when the car was retired." Umbrella Style Automatic Transmission Air Breathing Suppressor (TABS) from a 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Any automatic transmission fluid will last longer if the transmission case could be hermetically sealed, but transmissions have several potential entry points for air: 1. The Dipstick Tube. Any transmission with a dipstick tube has the potential to let additional oxygen into the transmission through a dipstick or dipstick tube plug that is not fully seated in the tube, or through the process of using the dipstick to check the fluid level. Many modern transmissions do not have a dipstick, they have sealed transmission fluid level check plugs. By removing the dipstick, the transmission manufacturer has also removed a potential entry point for oxygen; this reduces the potential for fluid oxidation. A sealed transmission will have longer transmission fluid life than a non-sealed transmission. 2. The Transmission Vent. Transmissions need vents to compensate for internal pressure changes that occur with temperature changes. Without those vents, pressure could build resulting in seal and gasket leaks. Older transmissions had large vents with not much more than a steel wool filter to keep out larger contaminates. The large vents allowed for easy inlet and outlet of air which results in additional oxygen being introduced into the transmission. Oxygen reacts with transmission fluid and can cause oxidation, rust, and corrosion. Ford and other transmission manufacturers have learned to use smaller vents with one-way Transmission Air Breathing Suppressor (TABS) valves in them to prevent oxygen entry into their transmissions. Any automatic transmission fluid will last longer if it comes from an unopened container 1. Containers storing automatic transmission fluid (ATF) should always be sealed; if exposed to the atmosphere, ATF may absorb moisture and potentially cause shift concerns. 2. When performing repairs on ATF-equipped transmissions, it is important to use only new, clean ATF when refilling the transmission. Never reuse ATF. Lifetime automatic transmission fluids made from higher quality base oil and an additive package are more chemically stable, less reactive, and do not experience oxidation as easily as lower quality fluids made from lower quality base oil and an additive package. Therefore, higher quality transmission fluids can last a long time in normal driving conditions (Typically 100,000 miles (160,000 km) or more). The definition of 'Lifetime Fluid" differs from transmission manufacturer to transmission manufacturer. Always consult the vehicle maintenance guide for the proper service interval for the fluid in your transmission and your driving conditions. According to the Owner's Manual of a 2018 Dodge Charger with "Lifetime Fluid" and a ZF 8-speed automatic transmission, the automatic transmission fluid, and filter never needs to be changed; however, ZF, the manufacturer of the ZF 8HP automatic transmission indicates the fluid has three different fluid service intervals depending on the driving style. ZF recommends a transmission oil and filter change every 62,000 miles (100,000 km) or after eight years at the latest. 1. Normal Driving ZF Automatic transmissions are maintenance-free and filled with specially developed partially synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Under "Normal" driving conditions, the automatic transmission fluid never needs to be changed (See age restriction below). 2. Severe Driving Driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In the case of above-average operating conditions, such as: Driving with high transmission fluid temperature Frequent freeway driving in the upper-speed range Offensive or sporty driving style Frequent trailer operation (towing) Under "Severe" driving conditions, it is recommended to refresh (change) the oil and filter of the automatic transmission every 62,000 miles (100,000 km). 3. Eight Years Old ZF recommends a transmission oil change after eight years at the latest.
@@sammontana1896 I would ask them, but they will tell you there is no need to check it unless the transmission is not performing correctly or of there is a leak.
I am a senior citizen and I have had 4 new cars and another 3 or 4 used cars in my lifetime. The only car that I had to have my transmission rebuilt was a new car that did NOT have a transmission dipstick (sealed) and that I was not able to check myself. So now I do not trust sealed transmissions. And worse yet, now engine oil dipsticks are no longer being provided either. I am at a point were I can buy another new car but I would rather buy an older car with both engine and transmission dipsticks.
I just followed this procedure on my Eco-Diesel Ram and it was flawless. Same amount went in as came out. Only issue was the stock drain pan drain plug is pretty much fake. It would not open. Thank you! 👍 🎣🐐
Thank you for this video. I was thinking about doing a filter and fluid change on my own in the driveway. The temperature thing really spooks me. Now I am not sure I could even trust the dealer to do it. And thanks for helping me understand the depth of this repair.
yeah, this is exactly how I feel. I even managed to find the ZF-published procedure and it is a bit confusing on the transmission cooler point. It seems from comments here that part of the procedure isn't necessary on Rams because the fluid is in the cooler whether or not the valve is open (3-valve system)
Excellent video very well explained . I have the problem with 2008 BMW 750li , If I drive it for 1 hour the transmission RED wheel sign comes on saying transmission overheated. The only thing I had done it was a change of leaking cooler lines under the sub frame which is about 7" they were leaking the rubber houses. it cost me $663.00 for cooler lines only the installation was extra.
You were very helpful. Thanks for sharing the Chrysler procedure and mentioning the cooler bypass valve. I did drain that and will recheck the transmission level after It's at normal operating temperature. Much appreciated!
I would thank you for this amazing clear video that clarify step by step how to check the oil level and important tips not to be forgotten. I am facing a fault code P0782 in my range rover sport 2006. I have changed the transmission oil , but it still there , if I drive it on the Manual mode it goes normally smooth changing all gears no issues, but if I drive on "D" it makes an issue between 2-3 gears.
Seems like a trans fluid check should justify at least an hour of shop time. You make very good points about the bypass valve. It's concerning that a closed valve won't permit a complete change of fluid, especially when service is done by a shop trying to keep cost to the consumer low. Not only does it take more time to do it right, you also have to replace more fluid at astronomical prices. I hate it when the most economic alternative is to call the junk yard.
Okay once you said but there is a little bit more to it than that I was worried.. and sure enough I located that transmission cooler bypass valve on my Chrysler 300 and that's when I decided to take it to the dealer and let them do it.. to much work.. but it's a good thing I seen this video because now I'm going to question the mechanic at the dealer and see if he knows all this😁 thx... Great work
Additional Information: 1. ZF recommends safely tilting the vehicle towards the driver's side to add an additional 0.5 liters of fluid to compensate for the transmission cooler bypass valve issue discussed in this video. 2 You must use the correct fluid in this transmission. The fluid must meet ZF-LIFEGUARDFLUID 8 (ZF No. S671 090 312) specifications. See aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf 3. Please turn off your traction control system before performing this procedure. As an automotive professor, I hear from a lot of people and students who have a negative reaction to this video and wonder why they took away the dipstick. Think about this: if a dipstick is so easy to use, you should be able to answer all of the following questions: 1. At what temperature is the "cold" mark accurate? 2. At what temperature is the "hot" mark accurate? 3. What temperature does the dipstick even refer to? Outside air? Coolant temperature? Transmission fluid temperature? 4. How will you measure that temperature? 5. If the fluid is within the cold mark area marks when it is "cold", is the fluid level okay? 6. if you live in a cold climate area like Alaska, is the "cold" level accurate there? What if you lived in a hot climate area like Central America, is their "cold" mark accurate? If you cannot answer all of the previous questions, should you be using a dipstick? See my dipstick video here: ruclips.net/video/s-tHJ2Q_BbA/видео.html
@@anthonyhayden320 yes it would theres a video of i guy doing fluid change on his 8 speed wrangler. I recently did mine on my 2019 2 door wrangler. It can be done. And also I recommend using the liqui moly 1800. It cost around 14 a liter vs 30 a quart of the mopar 8 and 9 speed.
@WeberAuto the procedure says "86-122 degrees F (30-50 degrees C)" which is a pretty good range of 40F - that could be applied to the "cold" dipstick low mark fudge when car has been sitting overnight... the dipstick could list temperature for Hot as well - some cars (not my BMW) do have tranny temp gages. dipstick would make it trivial to check for color/condition as well.
Always thanking this fantastic professor I would like to say regarding the final part of this video, It result to me that normally these thermostats are never completely closed but let 10-15% of fluid pass, therefore there is not any problem of having, at the oil check temperature, the heat exchanger isolated from the gearbox.
are you sure about this re: cooler valve? This is the part I'm super hung up about because ZF gives a very confusing instruction on this point and Chrysler seems to leave it out altogether. But if what you're saying is true, that would explain why Chrysler leaves it out.
Explained everything very good and detailed which not many people do and I could actually see what you were doing thanks for the tip at the end very helpful video
In my field keeping the fluid contaminants to a minimum say 10 to 20 microns is important for component life sealing and eat up most of the oxygen is a good idea to prevention oxidation however other comtamination are self induced due to natural wear of components.. it would be great to see what an oil sample would reveal from these transmissions after 20,000 miles.. then determine if it would be a pro or con to just leave the dip stick in and earlier service intervals
I just finished my fluid change and trans pan with integrated filter in my 2012 dodge charger awd, prop shaft did not have to come out! I found fluid on internet for 20.00 quart x 6, Aftermarket pan was 125.00. I saved 600.00! I have a lift in my garage. On the ground would be hard as all 4 wheels will have to be jacked up, but it was easy peasy!
Great video! We have alot of problems with proper fluid level with the whole system design. I wont start with improper fluids lol.... Alot of shops sell transmission flushes, and it takes a ridiculous amount of time just to verify fluid levels. It certainly is a pain as opposed to conventional simple dipstick tube fluid level checking.
I watched sooo many videos on this topic. I just did mine. I basically measured how much came out, then put that much back in. My transmission made it to 77k so far, so the level must have been fine.
@@anthonyguilianoii8836 Bro That's a great idea, im gonna do that on my bmw with 8hp 70, This way i wouldn't worry about under or overfilling and causing damage.
We're talking about allowing the fluid particles to reasonably expand to rough opertaional levels to check things. This is a matter of science as opposed to a heist. If you paid attention to such, it started pretty empty. You then fill it until it starts to over flow and plug it when the flow stops > Run it > check. Any flow THEN is over flow, and not ALL as you mindless lot seem to believe. Actually do a diff fluid change (or watch one) and see how your logic falls apart, even if those arent as involved (and finish grade school science)
Very helpful information, sir! I just changed the pan/filter and replaced some fluid on my ‘17 Durango and even the ZF service procedure that I was using did not include that but about the thermostatic bypass valve. It did, however, say to overfill by 0.5qt if trans cooler is present. But there is no way to overfill without having it leak out. I drove the Durango shortly after the fluid change and noticed a slight “whining” sound on acceleration, indicative of an underfill. I’ll check the fluid level again in the morning and add as necessary. This could also explain the slightly elevated trans temp of 190-194 as opposed to 170’s-180’s that I’d normally see. I just hope I didn’t do any internal damage!
@@tomorrowcomestoday1621 Yes after I added about a quart/liter of fluid the noise went away and the trans began running cooler. Was definitely low on fluid somehow.
Shouldn’t the manufacturer test plan allow the thermostat to open when checking the transmission fluid level? That would make since for the manufacture to update the test plan.
2019 model had cooler line leak at trans fitting. The lady drove it home and I replaced cooler line assembly in her driveway. Only able to jack up one side of car so could not do trans fluid level check properly. I pulled the top cooler line from the top fitting at cooler, attached a hose with a hand pump and added 2 quarts of fluid there and shifted through gears after each quart. After second quart gear selection felt good and then drive car to dealer for fluid level test.
Buying a manual transmission won't save us seems. Friend bought a manual in Chevy Duramax when first came out years ago. Had to be rebuild in no time. Traded for Allison auto model. Much more dependable.
lifetime fluid really means under car manufacturer warranty! after that you're on your own, transmissions have seals and cooling lines that can develop a leak. happened to me in a chevy cobalt. Car makers want, if you transmission develops a leak you can't check the level, there's no dipstick so you will drive until it starts slipping and transmission fails! so you will always need a new car or truck!
Hello Prof Kelly, considering the oh so high cost of that trans fluid I think I'd skip the first step and proceed right to the second proceeded by a high temp run and cool down and then proceed from there depending on the results. As your video went on to the bypass valve discussion, why in the heck did manufactures remove the dip stick that was always there on older vehicles? Cost reduction, to keep people from being able to do it themselves? It used to be so simple, run and drive the vehicle, get it up to the desired temp and then check the dipstick. I really don't understand why that still couldn't be possible. But then I am 69 years old and probably don't understand the "new" way of doing, looking at things. George
i am a certified A/T builder and when i rebuild these trans i check the level twice with my scanner at operating temp first then after i drive the vehicle to check it and i'm done. easy
@WeberAuto I heat the transmission to 160 °F to open the oil flow to the cooler. How to cool the transmission to 86 °F, so that the oil still remains in the cooler? I assume, that the oil pressure should be maintained when closing the valve. In which gear is it possible?
I would also love to know this, does the fluid flow back? So when you ceck it after opening the valve and you let it cool down doesn't the fluid just flow back into the gearbox and seem like its over full??
Thank you for the amazing knowledge. This might sound dumb but if I was to drain the trans fluid and catch it and put in the same amount through the fill plug, would that be ok? I know it wont be as efficient as replacing the pan and gasket but just wanted to know.
Thanks for the vid. Well done, and very informative I have a question though. What do you think the purpose is of checking the fluid at a lower temperature is, when, at the end of the day, you heat up the tranny, and either add or drain fluid out? Seems redundant to check it 'cold', then recheck it hot. Maybe I'm missing something though?
Thank you! It is a strange procedure. ZF is the one that warns about the cooler bypass valve affecting the fluid level. The Chrysler service information mentions nothing.
I'm guessing that the lack of any information on my 8HP70 in the 1500's owners manual really speaks to how unfriendly and costly this procedure is likely to be. RAM probably knows it could also potentially be a sales killer as well. My manual doesn't even give me any idea of at what point I should consider undertaking this procedure.
That is because it "Sealed for lifetime" and never needs any service. Obviously that is a sales gimmick. The Chrysler service information shows this very procedure.
I have a 15 scat pack with 52 land go to the track sometimes.. Parked for winter now, but I wanted to change fluid anyways before spring and thisnis good to know!! I will remind the service tech before I get it changed..
shouldn't the ZF engineers have considered the extra fluid requirements associated with Their cooler/lines..? maybe it's already compensated for in the height of the drain plug..?
ZF does not build cars or trucks, only the transmissions. it is up to each vehicle manufacturer to determine if they will use a transmission cooler, how large it is, and if it will have a bypass valve. It is also up to the vehicle manufacturer to come up with a fluid level checking procedure that will work for their configuration. Best wishes!
@@WeberAuto common man. What zf transmission don't have a cooler. The BMW before buy a transmission they need to know how much oil need to be inside. The transmission its filled after they mount on car. Wtff man.. Realy
I don't know anything about that. I do know that the ZF fluid for this transmission has an additive similar to limited slip differential additive. It allows the clutch packs to slip, on purpose, as part of normal transmission shifting operation. Regular ATF does not have that additive. The ZF fluid looks more like gear oil than ATF. To me, it would not be worth using any other fluid than the exact fluid that ZF calls for. Thanks for your feedback. Best wishes!
As much as people want the dipstick, I want the cellphone with the removable back cover so I can remove the battery easily. THough the cellphone might be less resistant to water in that design which I might have to be careful picking up a call in the rain.
I'm honestly uneasy with even the Ram / Chrysler technicians attempting this when it comes time to have them change the fluid on my 2015 Ram. There are too many variables to get wrong for a service industry that thrives on getting vehicles in and out of the dealership garages fast. If they don't offer me a loaner vehicle or rental car for the time they're going to have to keep the truck, I'm going to have to assume they don't intend on doing the job correctly.
Thanks for your feedback. That is true in many circumstances and shops. There are good technicians out there who want to learn how to, and actually perform proper service procedures without shortcuts. The problem is finding them. Best wishes!
It's not just finding good techs that's the problem. Some times the hands of good people are shackled. Management practices, time constraints, and quota pressures and monetary incentives are huge factors as well.
@TheQuagmireful1 Yes it lasts the lifetime of the transmission - right up until failure from fluid degradation. If car warranties were 10K miles, then engine oil would be 'lifetime' too, and for the same underlying reason. You may want to consider (1) what motivated manufacturers to claim lifetime ATF when nothing of significance changed mechanically, and (2) for whose benefit the change was made. Answers: (1) TCO (2) their benefit, of course
I have a suggestion about the bypass cooling system. I think it’s important to take care of that if the cooling system was removed (because it became empty) BUT if it was not removed, oil theorically still in the system.
I wonder how much a dealer will charge that follows the correct procedure. Also can you not open the valve by computer? Or the bypass valve mechanically controlled. Great video!
LOL ! Took my Ram 1500 to the dealer to check the upper ball joints and trans as it is ' slipping ' . Was charged $100.00 to check trans level and tell me the upper ball joints are bad( Knew this already ) . Talked to the mechanic and was told the trans hadn't thrown any codes and wasn't physically checked as it takes two people had to be cold and is a pain to check. . . . . Sitting overnight prior to being pulled into this shop wasn't cold enough I guess ? Then sitting in the shop all day and needing to rescheduled to do what wasn't done on the first scheduled appointment. What is a pisser is the fact I'm a retired ASE master mechanic who is now disabled and physically unable to do the work but there is nothing wrong with my mind or how to read a time / labor guide . Oh by the way the upper A-arms were in stock to do the job , and the vehicle was approved by the warranty company to perform the work . Oh , I forgot to mention something as yet to be seen but I suspect I will be' surprised ' with . The transmission fluid whether added or changed etc will be deemed a ' service ' to be charged outright and not covered by warranty if Dodge service is like Toyota's service . I'm waiting to see as already I have had the expense of a rental vehicle , a hundred dollar deductible , another rental charge upcoming plus who knows if the work will be completed when it is returned to be performed again at the designated time ? Actually the night before as was required on the last appointed visit for repair . . Still better than the GM dealer in Gainsville though . They will lie send you back out after cheating the insurance company for work not done in an unsafe jerry rigged vehicle so you'll come back time and time again . Second time disabled and all , I located purchased parts , made repairs , video's the whole thing even the air suspension springs that weren't replaced along with the actuator or sensor arms that were jerry rigged with wire ties and sent old parts along with video to the IG and the insurance company I'd purchased the extended insurance plan through . My be going that route again it seems .
When your working by yourself, just checking the fluid takes a while to do. When your vehicle is in for service and they supposedly checked all your fluids, you know they're lying when the procedure takes this long and has to be started from a cool temp. I'm convinced they have a faster method that they allow dealers to do. Some vehicles I work on like bmw's, have no engine diptstick and is only checked by computer.
Hey John, Great vid. I am curious why you're worried about the oil cooler bypass? I would have to believe that the when the valve is in bypass, the oil in the cooler is trapped and can't bleed back. If it's bypassing the cooler, how could the oil in the cooler circulate back? Thanks for your thoughts on this.
The oil cooler bypass opens when the fluid hot. If you shut off the engine while the fluid is hot, some of the fluid can drain back into the transmission. Then the fluid and bypass valve will cool down. This will leave open pockets of air in the cooler until the valve opens again. Thanks for the feedback.!
I agree with cmbenson1911, there almost has to be a way to keep the fluid in the cooler to keep the levels correct. My guess is that it isn't controlled by temperature alone, I would hope it requires the fluid pressure to open it as well so as soon as you shut it off and the pressure drops it closes the valve.
Have this transmission on my newly purchased 2012 F11 gen BMW 530d xDrive. BMW proudly announces that the transmission fluid is "filled for life" - well, if the life of the car is 50 000 kms, then maybe. Otherwise don't listen to them. Also, BMW claims that in the engine of these vehicles, the engine oil should be replaced every 30 000 kms - which is absurd. Weird how in Britain they had a class action lawsuit against BMW for snapping engine timing chains. I don't think there was anything wrong with the chains. I'm absolutely sure there's something wrong with "30 000". Replace engine oil after every 10 000 kms (which in freedom units are 5 bald eagles and 1.75 bottles of coke). Greetings from Latvia - and thanks for this video. Probably saved me a lot of trouble (by not doing it myself - and questioning everything the transmission shop knows - before delivering the car to them).
I just did one of these on a bmw, the burn on my hand from that cat next to plug is healing fine .... dumbest crap ive ever seen .... love my old cars ...
Finally someone who knows what they’re talking about, and no background music, thanks for sharing this information
What ever engineer that decided this was a great idea to remove the dipstick should be fired and never allowed to design anything again
Thanks for watching
means more money for the dealer to service it.....I would imagine JUST to check the fluid level is 1 hr of labour vs. 30 sec using a dip stick
@@dm19609721 Proper usage of a dipstick requires much longer than 30 seconds. See my dipstick video to find out why ruclips.net/video/s-tHJ2Q_BbA/видео.html
You can buy dipstick for $64
Planned obsolescence.
This did a better job explaining than anybody on RUclips in a wheel chair
Kudos for an excellent explanation of a truly, absurdly designed process.
Thank you
Worded that perfectly
@@WeberAuto hi there sir, can I ask you a question plz?
Check your transmission fluid levels in only 47 easy steps!
Wow... crazy.
Welcome to 8 speeds and above! Thanks for your feedback.
WeberAuto Hello master,5:09 min what is diagnostic name use? how cheking(diagnostic) electronik transmission ? can you say what computer programm? please.
Yep, crazy... Another effort to prevent DIY'ers from doing their own maintenance.
Ya, I second that! Dealer wants $850.00, who the hell can afford that?
Alfonso Demagistris $850 just to check the fluid level?
One of the best car maintenance videos I've ever seen. Every aspect of this, from John's wealth of experience to the clear explanations to the super sharp and well-lit images is exactly what a person needs. Thank you!
First time I saw someone who goes to slow pace to explain so clear the procedure I really appreciate you take your time and I hope see more from Chrysler 300 Rwd 3.6 pentastar thanks
Excellent video. a few points... 1) When the cooler bypass valve is closed, the fluid won't go to the cooler, and when it's open, fluid goes through. 2) If you're just doing a fluid level check without maintenance, the cooler bypass being open or closed won't make a difference as it will remain filled with no air one way or the other. If you' have done maintenance, then driving around until the fluid temp is 180F or higher would ensure that the cooler has been filled.
You're great professor and person,share $1,000 dollars class for free. Personally me thank you for your public service. Every time I watch your videos I learned something
Thank you!
John, I think the bypass valve will be a 3 port device providing a "constant volume" system whereas a 2 port valve will provide a variable volume system. If it is indeed a 3 port valve then the transmission oil volume does not vary regardless of whether the valve is open or closed, it simply either flows through the cooler or bypasses the cooler. This is basically very much like what is used in HVAC control and a constant volume prevent head/pump pressure increasing whereas a 2 port system tries to pump against a dead end and the head increases. I'm not sure I've explained it precisely enough but the fundamental is to ask the ZF guy whether the bypass valve is 3 port or 2 port. If 3 port then all is good and no need to worry about oil volume because the volume is constant. As an aside what a cack eyed system ZF seem to have created!
This information is priceless.. All that said. The process, simply put is Convoluted. $43 a quart, and the Trans takes up to 6 qt. this cost doesn't include the filter. What in the world was Chrysler thinking.
A lot of very important information to know in order to do a transmission fluid change. Of particular note is the fact the fluid is s-p-e-c-i-f-i-c-a-l-l-y for 8 speed transmissions. Thank you for taking the time to clearly explain the full procedure. It is definitely more than a one hour Saturday afternoon job.
On the ATF fluid label he shows it says 8 or 9 speed trans at at the 7:10 mark.
GEEZ! Put a freakin' dip stick back in these things! What a PITA!
Couldn’t agree more ,initially they came with a dip stick don’t make this shit upgrade
Thank you for the excellent educational video. I now know what to look for and avoid in a new car purchase: transmissions that require 2 days to properly check fluid levels.
lol, luckily they are filled for "lifetime" and never need checking ;) Thanks for your feedback.
WeberAuto bullshit, lifetime means under car maker warranty! after that you're on your own, transmissions have seals and cooling lines that can develop a leak. happened to me in a chevy cobalt. Car makers want, if you transmission develops a leak you can't check the level, there's no dipstick so you will drive until it starts slipping and transmission fails!
@@edvinnelius8213 In these days, ALL car manufacturers are doing this, so you have to get with the times! Some manufactures don't even have a dipstick for engine oil!!
Great information John very well explained. I installed a trans dipstick and tube on my 2011 F 150 with the 6R80 trans. No more having to play around under the truck next to that hot passenger side converter when checking the fluid level. In my view all manufactures should have an electronic display for the operator of the vehicle to check the transmission fluid level or at least a easily accessible dip stick.
Thank you! and thanks for your feedback. I was not aware that you could retrofit a 6R80 with a dipstick tube to replace the little short one under the truck. Dipsticks can lead to other problems that are now eliminated. 1st. Their accuracy has always been temperature sensitive. 2nd. They allow incorrect fluids to be easily installed. If the special fluid for this transmission is $43 USD from the Chrysler dealership and some generic fluid is $3.59 at the local auto parts chain, most people will buy the $3.59 oil because they may think that all fluids are the same, the price is the only difference. Obviously this would lead to transmission damage operational concerns. Best wishes!
This is one of the best ZF Trans videos on RUclips. My problem is when I go to different auto shops in my area to get filter/pan fluid drop, they have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. ZF fluid temp sensitive fluid change ??? One shop told me he can flush any trans made, refill with Kendal Chrysler automatic trans fluid.
Tell them to read that label on the side of the transmission oil pan right below the fluid fill/check plug. Don't let them put any other fluid in it other than the Chrysler 8-9 speed fluid or the ZF-LIFEGUARDFLUID 8 (ZF No. S671 090 312) fluid. See the video description for more information.
Best video I have seen. Clear explanation and no bs. Some of the other ones just get you off track. I have been a mechanic for a long time but some of this new stuff is a bit confusing! Thank you.
This guys knows his stuff!
By the way; these combined AC Condensers/Transmission coolers are known to crack and leak refrigerant, PAG oil and dye at around 100 000 Kms. Drivers will hear the "hiss of death" while driving with the AC on. It's a common issue with all Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge brands (this part is common) and the combined condenser needs to be replaced (there's a few videos on youtube about it and how to complete it). The replacement of the condenser is relatively simple, but i doubt any technician/mechanic will complete the trans fluid check after completion of the job. If it's happened to your CJD vehicle, and you have a new A/C condenser, check your ZF 8HP transmission fluid after the repair. It's NOT a required step in the standard A/C condenser repair in the standard repair manual. Your AC will be nice a cool but the transmission may potentially be low on fluid and may lead to premature failure.
Keep up the great videos.
Great information, thank you!
Thank you John! I cant thank you enough for this professional video. I'm changing the fluid now on my 2014 Ram 1500. It has only 41K miles but I have towed a 9K trailer 2500 miles so just want to be safe. The part about the bypass valve and air in the lines is critical. I will do the 2 step process on 2 heat cycles after I get the temp to normal driving temps that allows the valve to open. Thanks again!!
you don't need to worry if you drain cold (cooler stays filled). you could also measure what comes out and put the same amount in (if original and no leaks) if you do just a drain (vs replace filter/pan)
@ericsacco7406.....The transmission filter is part of the PAN, so it will cost about $150 to replace the filter!!
@@1gr8oil Correct yet the Dorman unit has a replaceable filter for the next change.. you keep the pan to save $$
Excellent tutorial from this amazing technician. It’s a good thing the ZF 8 speed is such a great transmission to use, since it’s not easy to change fluid. At least you can fall in love with the operation of it.
it s near impossible to change the fluid. Even authorized BMW dealerships refuse to change ATF claiming it s supposed to last forever!
@Jonathan Spier You re right but how and where are you supposed to have it done when youre dealer refuses to service it and you are not capable of doing it by yourself
1. I vote for bring back the dipstick. It will achieve the same and show fluid expansion.
2. In all my years of working on cars, I've never seen a trans burn up from overfill(within reason). But all will burn up if under-filled. Remember, the fluid is meant to absorb heat.
Thanks for your feedback!
Believe it or not I have seen a trans burn up from over filling. it was a county owned car and the county maintenance technicians managed to overfill it to the point where fluid started making it's way out side to the topside of the transmission case. You could see trans fluid pooling on top of the transmission when you opened the hood. Transmission was cooked . This was a 2010 v6 Camry. And of course the county wanted it under warranty.
@@DontCryAboutIt I personally experienced foaming in my 1985 Dodge Aries!
Dodge dealership told me my charger Trans never needed servicing, but I could service it at 100k if I wanted. Quoted me $1000. Ridiculous.
@@farmboy9229 thats because they never do it and dont know how to do it. Imagine they do something wrong, what would be the cost for them? Hence the price...
A credit to your profession. I hope your students appreciate your gift
This is a really easy procedure all things considered. It's amazing the prices some shops charge to do this. I've seen people quote upwards of 900 dollars for something an experienced DIY'er can do on a Sunday over a couple of beers.
Transmissions had dip sticks for decades and we've never had a problem. They shouldn't have taken them away just because not every owner is ASE certified. It's ridiculous.
Thanks for your feedback
Of course, am mad because of this crap" not having a dip stick to check level" it's insane insulting and ridiculous design" it's stupid" why making so much work to anyone to check level" and so" This company should be sued"😕
Presumably IF the transmission pan was drained when the engine was NOT above 160 then the bypass valve was closed and no fluid drained back into the pan and SHOULD not be affected by the temperature increase later.
Notwithstanding this it would be advisable to double check after it has been run hot and the bypass valve open but I would NOT expect it to be low IF the bypass valve is working correctly
Cheers from Canada North
Exactly! ... Also, if you are just checking the level as in this video and nothing has been opened or drained then it wouldn't be an issue anyways.
My thinking exactly. Change the fluid when its below 160. I changed mine around 60f so I know the bypass valve was closed.
@@Weak_juan I changed mine in my grand Cherokee at 95,000 miles. I measured what I drained out and put back in the same amount. I do want to check it sometime but it seems fine
This is retarded just gonna sell it
Dealing with hydraulics for thirty years on a daily basis you would need to determine if the cooler lines do drain back while the bypass valve is hot, if so there would be no true way of checking the fluid level because the fluid would drain back every time the engine is shut off while hot, however if the cooler is isolated during the ignition off position the cooler would stay full, You did a great job with this video by the way, very detailed!
Thank you, and thank you for your feedback!
How would the fluid drain back if it's a closed system?
John this was a great video on how to service the trans. Thank you so much for the time and explaning the procedure. my god bless you.
Thank you very much
I would think that driving it for 20 minutes after you do the fluid change and than recheck it is a wise idea in any at fluid change. Second I like that there is no music playing over your voice, you get rite to the point, and you speak clear English. Thank you for a very educational video that the dealer wants $850.00 for a fluid and filter change.
No, I found out after this video that ZF recommends overfilling the transmission by 0.5 Liter (by tilting the vehicle to the driver's side) and adding the additional fluid upon the initial fluid fill to compensate for the cooler bypass issue. Thank you and Best wishes.
Jeep makes the process so easy... My manual states "To check or change your transmission fluid, bring your car to the dealership and trade it in for a new model with fresh fluid and integrated filter"
LOL! Thanks for the humor!
It is nice to hear someone talking with property about something they know for sure.
Thank you very much for the free lessons. I just subscribed because I really appreciate your videos, and the objective and informative way you teach. Your one of those great teachers that we never forget!
I’m in the other side of the pound and I think you’d like to know you have many subscribers around here.
I heard about the steps to do this oil change and they didn't make sense. Now it makes perfect sense. Thanks.
My ATF fluid research has led me to discover the following information. I document it here as well as on several Wikipedia pages I created/modified on Mercon, Dexron, Mopar, and Toyota automatic transmission fluids.
Lifetime Fluids and Dipstick-less Transmissions:
The 1967 Ford Type-F fluid specification was intended to produce a “lifetime” fluid that would never need to be changed. This is the first of many Ford “lifetime” fluids. The 1974 Ford Car Shop Manual reads "The automatic transmission is filled at the factory with "lifetime" fluid. If it is necessary to add or replace fluid, use only fluids which meet Ford Specification M2C33F. Many other transmission manufacturers have followed with their own "Lifetime" automatic transmission fluids".
To understand how a fluid can last a "lifetime", a study of the 1939 Chrysler Fluid Drive Fluid is needed. The November 1954 edition of Lubrication Magazine (Published by The Texas Company, later known as Texaco) featured a story called "Evolution of the Chrysler PowerFlite Automatic Transmission". This article described the fluid used in the 1939 Chrysler Fluid Drive and its subsequent revisions and enhancements through 1954.
A section of the feature described the lubrication of the Fluid Drive's fluid coupling, reads "The fluid drive fluid coupling is partially filled with Mopar Fluid Drive Fluid, a special highly refined straight mineral oil with a viscosity of about 185 SUS at 100° F., excellent inherent oxidation stability, high viscosity index (100), excellent ability to rapidly reject air, very low natural pour point ( -25° F.), ability to adequately lubricate the pilot ball bearing and seal surface, and neutrality towards the seal bellows.
The fluid operates under almost ideal conditions in what is essentially a hermetically sealed case, the small amount of atmospheric oxygen initially present being removed by harmless reaction with the fluid so as to leave a residual inert (nitrogen) atmosphere. As a consequence, it has not been necessary to drain and replace the fluid, and the level-check recommendation has been successively extended from the original 2,500 miles to 15,500 miles and finally to "never" - or the life of the car.
Since drains and level checks were not only unnecessary but frequently harmful ( through the introduction of more air, and seal-destroying dirt) Chrysler eventually left off the tempting level inspection plugs. This mechanism is therefore one of the very few that is actually lubricated for the life of the car. There are now myriad examples of couplings that have operated well over 100,000 miles without any attention whatsoever and were still in perfect condition when the car was retired."
Umbrella Style Automatic Transmission Air Breathing Suppressor (TABS) from a 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV
Any automatic transmission fluid will last longer if the transmission case could be hermetically sealed, but transmissions have several potential entry points for air:
1. The Dipstick Tube. Any transmission with a dipstick tube has the potential to let additional oxygen into the transmission through a dipstick or dipstick tube plug that is not fully seated in the tube, or through the process of using the dipstick to check the fluid level. Many modern transmissions do not have a dipstick, they have sealed transmission fluid level check plugs. By removing the dipstick, the transmission manufacturer has also removed a potential entry point for oxygen; this reduces the potential for fluid oxidation. A sealed transmission will have longer transmission fluid life than a non-sealed transmission.
2. The Transmission Vent. Transmissions need vents to compensate for internal pressure changes that occur with temperature changes. Without those vents, pressure could build resulting in seal and gasket leaks. Older transmissions had large vents with not much more than a steel wool filter to keep out larger contaminates. The large vents allowed for easy inlet and outlet of air which results in additional oxygen being introduced into the transmission. Oxygen reacts with transmission fluid and can cause oxidation, rust, and corrosion. Ford and other transmission manufacturers have learned to use smaller vents with one-way Transmission Air Breathing Suppressor (TABS) valves in them to prevent oxygen entry into their transmissions.
Any automatic transmission fluid will last longer if it comes from an unopened container
1. Containers storing automatic transmission fluid (ATF) should always be sealed; if exposed to the atmosphere, ATF may absorb moisture and potentially cause shift concerns.
2. When performing repairs on ATF-equipped transmissions, it is important to use only new, clean ATF when refilling the transmission. Never reuse ATF.
Lifetime automatic transmission fluids made from higher quality base oil and an additive package are more chemically stable, less reactive, and do not experience oxidation as easily as lower quality fluids made from lower quality base oil and an additive package. Therefore, higher quality transmission fluids can last a long time in normal driving conditions (Typically 100,000 miles (160,000 km) or more).
The definition of 'Lifetime Fluid" differs from transmission manufacturer to transmission manufacturer. Always consult the vehicle maintenance guide for the proper service interval for the fluid in your transmission and your driving conditions. According to the Owner's Manual of a 2018 Dodge Charger with "Lifetime Fluid" and a ZF 8-speed automatic transmission, the automatic transmission fluid, and filter never needs to be changed; however, ZF, the manufacturer of the ZF 8HP automatic transmission indicates the fluid has three different fluid service intervals depending on the driving style. ZF recommends a transmission oil and filter change every 62,000 miles (100,000 km) or after eight years at the latest.
1. Normal Driving ZF Automatic transmissions are maintenance-free and filled with specially developed partially synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions.
Under "Normal" driving conditions, the automatic transmission fluid never needs to be changed (See age restriction below).
2. Severe Driving Driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In the case of above-average operating conditions, such as:
Driving with high transmission fluid temperature
Frequent freeway driving in the upper-speed range
Offensive or sporty driving style
Frequent trailer operation (towing)
Under "Severe" driving conditions, it is recommended to refresh (change) the oil and filter of the automatic transmission every 62,000 miles (100,000 km).
3. Eight Years Old
ZF recommends a transmission oil change after eight years at the latest.
Great info thanks.
How could you get the dealer to check your transmission fluid while in for a service 🤔?
@@sammontana1896 I would ask them, but they will tell you there is no need to check it unless the transmission is not performing correctly or of there is a leak.
@weberauto your the man thanks for this!
I am a senior citizen and I have had 4 new cars and another 3 or 4 used cars in my lifetime. The only car that I had to have my transmission rebuilt was a new car that did NOT have a transmission dipstick (sealed) and that I was not able to check myself. So now I do not trust sealed transmissions. And worse yet, now engine oil dipsticks are no longer being provided either. I am at a point were I can buy another new car but I would rather buy an older car with both engine and transmission dipsticks.
I just followed this procedure on my Eco-Diesel Ram and it was flawless. Same amount went in as came out. Only issue was the stock drain pan drain plug is pretty much fake. It would not open. Thank you! 👍 🎣🐐
Thank you for this video. I was thinking about doing a filter and fluid change on my own in the driveway.
The temperature thing really spooks me.
Now I am not sure I could even trust the dealer to do it.
And thanks for helping me understand the depth of this repair.
yeah, this is exactly how I feel. I even managed to find the ZF-published procedure and it is a bit confusing on the transmission cooler point. It seems from comments here that part of the procedure isn't necessary on Rams because the fluid is in the cooler whether or not the valve is open (3-valve system)
@@NinjasOfOrca I did mine on my grand Cherokee and just measured what I took out and put the same back in
Thank you sir that was very helpful 👍
Excellent video very well explained . I have the problem with 2008 BMW 750li , If I drive it for 1 hour the transmission RED wheel sign comes on saying transmission overheated. The only thing I had done it was a change of leaking cooler lines under the sub frame which is about 7" they were leaking the rubber houses. it cost me $663.00 for cooler lines only the installation was extra.
Thank you! Overheating is serious. Causes? Low fluid level, restricted cooler or lines, internal problems. Best wishes!
Did you find out what was your issue sir?
Its 7 years later but you nailed it!
Thank you for this awesome video , John!!
Thank you!
Very informative, really enjoyed watching
Changing the transmission seems simpler than reading the fluid level
You were very helpful. Thanks for sharing the Chrysler procedure and mentioning the cooler bypass valve. I did drain that and will recheck the transmission level after It's at normal operating temperature. Much appreciated!
After cold fill and a couple of test drives, the transmission took 7 quarts to fill. The Durango runs like new and responds much faster.
Ford also uses the thermostatic fluid by-pass valve. They have been known to stick closed and cause an overheat condition.
Very true, GM also uses that type of valve. Thank you!
I would thank you for this amazing clear video that clarify step by step how to check the oil level and important tips not to be forgotten. I am facing a fault code P0782 in my range rover sport 2006. I have changed the transmission oil , but it still there , if I drive it on the Manual mode it goes normally smooth changing all gears no issues, but if I drive on "D" it makes an issue between 2-3 gears.
Seems like a trans fluid check should justify at least an hour of shop time. You make very good points about the bypass valve. It's concerning that a closed valve won't permit a complete change of fluid, especially when service is done by a shop trying to keep cost to the consumer low. Not only does it take more time to do it right, you also have to replace more fluid at astronomical prices. I hate it when the most economic alternative is to call the junk yard.
Thank you for your feedback! I agree.
spelunkerd neither does fluid in the torque converter I would think
No such thing as "complete" fluid change
Okay once you said but there is a little bit more to it than that I was worried.. and sure enough I located that transmission cooler bypass valve on my Chrysler 300 and that's when I decided to take it to the dealer and let them do it.. to much work.. but it's a good thing I seen this video because now I'm going to question the mechanic at the dealer and see if he knows all this😁 thx... Great work
Additional Information:
1. ZF recommends safely tilting the vehicle towards the driver's side to add an additional 0.5 liters of fluid to compensate for the transmission cooler bypass valve issue discussed in this video.
2 You must use the correct fluid in this transmission. The fluid must meet ZF-LIFEGUARDFLUID 8 (ZF No. S671 090 312) specifications. See aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf
3. Please turn off your traction control system before performing this procedure.
As an automotive professor, I hear from a lot of people and students who have a negative reaction to this video and wonder why they took away the dipstick. Think about this: if a dipstick is so easy to use, you should be able to answer all of the following questions:
1. At what temperature is the "cold" mark accurate?
2. At what temperature is the "hot" mark accurate?
3. What temperature does the dipstick even refer to? Outside air? Coolant temperature? Transmission fluid temperature?
4. How will you measure that temperature?
5. If the fluid is within the cold mark area marks when it is "cold", is the fluid level okay?
6. if you live in a cold climate area like Alaska, is the "cold" level accurate there? What if you lived in a hot climate area like Central America, is their "cold" mark accurate?
If you cannot answer all of the previous questions, should you be using a dipstick? See my dipstick video here: ruclips.net/video/s-tHJ2Q_BbA/видео.html
Hey John, would this method apply to a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Zf 8 hp70? Would you add the extra fluid to a cold transmission?
@@anthonyhayden320 im curious about this
@@anthonyhayden320 yes it would theres a video of i guy doing fluid change on his 8 speed wrangler. I recently did mine on my 2019 2 door wrangler. It can be done. And also I recommend using the liqui moly 1800. It cost around 14 a liter vs 30 a quart of the mopar 8 and 9 speed.
@WeberAuto the procedure says "86-122 degrees F (30-50 degrees C)" which is a pretty good range of 40F - that could be applied to the "cold" dipstick low mark fudge when car has been sitting overnight... the dipstick could list temperature for Hot as well - some cars (not my BMW) do have tranny temp gages. dipstick would make it trivial to check for color/condition as well.
@@bombhills707 - Do not use aftermarket fluid especially if you have a warranty you want to keep.
Always thanking this fantastic professor I would like to say regarding the final part of this video, It result to me that normally these thermostats are never completely closed but let 10-15% of fluid pass, therefore there is not any problem of having, at the oil check temperature, the heat exchanger isolated from the gearbox.
are you sure about this re: cooler valve? This is the part I'm super hung up about because ZF gives a very confusing instruction on this point and Chrysler seems to leave it out altogether. But if what you're saying is true, that would explain why Chrysler leaves it out.
My dad: just put some transmission fluid in it
Me: you don't understand
LMFAO! dead af.
🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️😂😂😂😂
Fluid that was pumped to the cooler. Has gone through the filter first. All that crap you speak of was caught by the filter.
Tell me why this happened to me to, I’m dead asf lmao 😂😂
Explained everything very good and detailed which not many people do and I could actually see what you were doing thanks for the tip at the end very helpful video
In my field keeping the fluid contaminants to a minimum say 10 to 20 microns is important for component life sealing and eat up most of the oxygen is a good idea to prevention oxidation however other comtamination are self induced due to natural wear of components.. it would be great to see what an oil sample would reveal from these transmissions after 20,000 miles.. then determine if it would be a pro or con to just leave the dip stick in and earlier service intervals
I just finished my fluid change and trans pan with integrated filter in my 2012 dodge charger awd, prop shaft did not have to come out! I found fluid on internet for 20.00 quart x 6, Aftermarket pan was 125.00. I saved 600.00! I have a lift in my garage. On the ground would be hard as all 4 wheels will have to be jacked up, but it was easy peasy!
Thanks for your feedback. I hope the fluid you purchased met the ZF-LIFEGUARDFLUID 8 (ZF No. S671 090 312) specifications
@@WeberAuto yes it was called ZF 8 and 9 speed fluid
Good to hear. Have a good day
@@demagchevy the fluid you used worked correctly?
Nice informative video John. I enjoy watching your videos!
Thank you!
Awesome job Sir! Keep up the good work.
Thank you!
Great video! We have alot of problems with proper fluid level with the whole system design. I wont start with improper fluids lol.... Alot of shops sell transmission flushes, and it takes a ridiculous amount of time just to verify fluid levels. It certainly is a pain as opposed to conventional simple dipstick tube fluid level checking.
Thank you for the video. Do you really think they do all this at the dealership when you bring it in for service?
Very well done. Just showed this to a new tech in the shop. Thank you so much.
Glad it helped
So basically the fluid that you put in initially came back out the 2nd time that you opened the drain plug.
rothm2003 yes I was thinking the same thing.
Yup! That way they make even more moeny by selling you more $42.00 a quart fluid. Just pitiful!
I watched sooo many videos on this topic. I just did mine. I basically measured how much came out, then put that much back in. My transmission made it to 77k so far, so the level must have been fine.
@@anthonyguilianoii8836 Bro That's a great idea, im gonna do that on my bmw with 8hp 70, This way i wouldn't worry about under or overfilling and causing damage.
We're talking about allowing the fluid particles to reasonably expand to rough opertaional levels to check things. This is a matter of science as opposed to a heist.
If you paid attention to such, it started pretty empty. You then fill it until it starts to over flow and plug it when the flow stops > Run it > check. Any flow THEN is over flow, and not ALL as you mindless lot seem to believe. Actually do a diff fluid change (or watch one) and see how your logic falls apart, even if those arent as involved (and finish grade school science)
Very helpful information, sir! I just changed the pan/filter and replaced some fluid on my ‘17 Durango and even the ZF service procedure that I was using did not include that but about the thermostatic bypass valve. It did, however, say to overfill by 0.5qt if trans cooler is present. But there is no way to overfill without having it leak out.
I drove the Durango shortly after the fluid change and noticed a slight “whining” sound on acceleration, indicative of an underfill. I’ll check the fluid level again in the morning and add as necessary. This could also explain the slightly elevated trans temp of 190-194 as opposed to 170’s-180’s that I’d normally see. I just hope I didn’t do any internal damage!
Did the sound went away?
@@tomorrowcomestoday1621 Yes after I added about a quart/liter of fluid the noise went away and the trans began running cooler. Was definitely low on fluid somehow.
Shouldn’t the manufacturer test plan allow the thermostat to open when checking the transmission fluid level? That would make since for the manufacture to update the test plan.
2019 model had cooler line leak at trans fitting. The lady drove it home and I replaced cooler line assembly in her driveway. Only able to jack up one side of car so could not do trans fluid level check properly. I pulled the top cooler line from the top fitting at cooler, attached a hose with a hand pump and added 2 quarts of fluid there and shifted through gears after each quart. After second quart gear selection felt good and then drive car to dealer for fluid level test.
Buying a manual transmission won't save us seems. Friend bought a manual in Chevy Duramax when first came out years ago. Had to be rebuild in no time. Traded for Allison auto model. Much more dependable.
Thanks for your feedback
Fantastic video. Well done for educating people in this manner.
Thank you!
lifetime fluid really means under car manufacturer warranty! after that you're on your own, transmissions have seals and cooling lines that can develop a leak. happened to me in a chevy cobalt. Car makers want, if you transmission develops a leak you can't check the level, there's no dipstick so you will drive until it starts slipping and transmission fails! so you will always need a new car or truck!
Thanks for your feedback!
I am always learning highly information and I’m becoming a better technician thanks to you Sr.
Hello Prof Kelly, considering the oh so high cost of that trans fluid I think I'd skip the first step and proceed right to the second proceeded by a high temp run and cool down and then proceed from there depending on the results. As your video went on to the bypass valve discussion, why in the heck did manufactures remove the dip stick that was always there on older vehicles? Cost reduction, to keep people from being able to do it themselves? It used to be so simple, run and drive the vehicle, get it up to the desired temp and then check the dipstick. I really don't understand why that still couldn't be possible. But then I am 69 years old and probably don't understand the "new" way of doing, looking at things.
George
Removal of the dipstick stops most people from messing with the transmission (putting in the wrong fluid, wrong fluid level, etc.)
No removal of the dipstick was to keep the average guy from saving $ by doing it himself.
i am a certified A/T builder and when i rebuild these trans i check the level twice with my scanner at operating temp first then after i drive the vehicle to check it and i'm done. easy
Thanks for your feedback
What scan tool are you using? Witech or Chrysler Diagnostic Application (cda)?
@WeberAuto
I heat the transmission to 160 °F to open the oil flow to the cooler. How to cool the transmission to 86 °F, so that the oil still remains in the cooler? I assume, that the oil pressure should be maintained when closing the valve. In which gear is it possible?
I would also love to know this, does the fluid flow back? So when you ceck it after opening the valve and you let it cool down doesn't the fluid just flow back into the gearbox and seem like its over full??
The fluid level is correct because there is fluid in the cooler. If the cooler dry because it was being replaced. Maybe then.
ZF engineers are having a little fun with the manual to play with the techs I see...
LOL, it looks that way!
Awesome, now that ive found someone who knows how to do it i just gotta drive across country to utah to have my fluid checked...
Just checked my 14 grand Cherokee, it has the valve on the drivers side of the transmission
Thanks for your feedback
This is incredible, thank you for sharing!
Thanks for watching
Thank you for the amazing knowledge. This might sound dumb but if I was to drain the trans fluid and catch it and put in the same amount through the fill plug, would that be ok? I know it wont be as efficient as replacing the pan and gasket but just wanted to know.
I'm doing the same thing. Fluid out fluid in.
That's how I did mine. I changed the pan and filter but ended up right around 4.5 -4.75 qts
Your right back where you started.
Thanks for the vid. Well done, and very informative I have a question though. What do you think the purpose is of checking the fluid at a lower temperature is, when, at the end of the day, you heat up the tranny, and either add or drain fluid out? Seems redundant to check it 'cold', then recheck it hot. Maybe I'm missing something though?
Thank you! It is a strange procedure. ZF is the one that warns about the cooler bypass valve affecting the fluid level. The Chrysler service information mentions nothing.
An excellent delivery of rich and expert information. Thanks !
I'm guessing that the lack of any information on my 8HP70 in the 1500's owners manual really speaks to how unfriendly and costly this procedure is likely to be. RAM probably knows it could also potentially be a sales killer as well. My manual doesn't even give me any idea of at what point I should consider undertaking this procedure.
That is because it "Sealed for lifetime" and never needs any service. Obviously that is a sales gimmick. The Chrysler service information shows this very procedure.
I have a 15 scat pack with 52 land go to the track sometimes.. Parked for winter now, but I wanted to change fluid anyways before spring and thisnis good to know!! I will remind the service tech before I get it changed..
Thanks for your feedback, best wishes!
shouldn't the ZF engineers have considered the extra fluid requirements associated with Their cooler/lines..? maybe it's already compensated for in the height of the drain plug..?
ZF does not build cars or trucks, only the transmissions. it is up to each vehicle manufacturer to determine if they will use a transmission cooler, how large it is, and if it will have a bypass valve. It is also up to the vehicle manufacturer to come up with a fluid level checking procedure that will work for their configuration. Best wishes!
@@WeberAuto common man. What zf transmission don't have a cooler. The BMW before buy a transmission they need to know how much oil need to be inside. The transmission its filled after they mount on car. Wtff man.. Realy
Zf just makes the transmission. The car companies add on the other lines and valves as they see fit
Very good video been looking all over for some info and finally found a video thanks
Thank you!
amsoil signature atf seems to suggest it meets the specs for zf autos
I don't know anything about that. I do know that the ZF fluid for this transmission has an additive similar to limited slip differential additive. It allows the clutch packs to slip, on purpose, as part of normal transmission shifting operation. Regular ATF does not have that additive. The ZF fluid looks more like gear oil than ATF. To me, it would not be worth using any other fluid than the exact fluid that ZF calls for. Thanks for your feedback. Best wishes!
If the bypass block is out in the open, couldn't you use a heat gun to heat up that block so it will open?
Possibly, But you must be careful not to overheat the transmission fluid or the block, they can be ruined from excessive heat. Best wishes
Very helpful. I wasn't loosing my mind. Thanks John.
sold my a8l d4 with zf 8hp started making weird noises in 2nd gear
just got rid of it altogether
Thanks for your feedback
Thank you, sir - very informative & very professional.
Thank you very much!
As much as people want the dipstick, I want the cellphone with the removable back cover so I can remove the battery easily. THough the cellphone might be less resistant to water in that design which I might have to be careful picking up a call in the rain.
I wish I could find a mechanic like you were I live
I'm honestly uneasy with even the Ram / Chrysler technicians attempting this when it comes time to have them change the fluid on my 2015 Ram. There are too many variables to get wrong for a service industry that thrives on getting vehicles in and out of the dealership garages fast. If they don't offer me a loaner vehicle or rental car for the time they're going to have to keep the truck, I'm going to have to assume they don't intend on doing the job correctly.
Thanks for your feedback. That is true in many circumstances and shops. There are good technicians out there who want to learn how to, and actually perform proper service procedures without shortcuts. The problem is finding them. Best wishes!
You never need to change the fluid on an 8 speed ZF transmission. They are filled for life.
It's not just finding good techs that's the problem. Some times the hands of good people are shackled. Management practices, time constraints, and quota pressures and monetary incentives are huge factors as well.
@TheQuagmireful1 Yes it lasts the lifetime of the transmission - right up until failure from fluid degradation. If car warranties were 10K miles, then engine oil would be 'lifetime' too, and for the same underlying reason. You may want to consider (1) what motivated manufacturers to claim lifetime ATF when nothing of significance changed mechanically, and (2) for whose benefit the change was made. Answers: (1) TCO (2) their benefit, of course
Yeah don't buy for a minute the "lifetime fluid" BS. Change it regularly if you plan on owning the car well past the warranty.
I have a suggestion about the bypass cooling system. I think it’s important to take care of that if the cooling system was removed (because it became empty) BUT if it was not removed, oil theorically still in the system.
Ok but you need to bring the oil from the gearbox to operating temperature before oil drain which maybe exceed 70 celsius
Manufacturers creating ways to increase the service calls they get my making things difficult.
I just had the RAM dealer check the level on my 2020 RAM REBEL, and it took less than an hour! They said level was okay.
I wonder how much a dealer will charge that follows the correct procedure. Also can you not open the valve by computer? Or the bypass valve mechanically controlled.
Great video!
It will be expensive because of the length of time it takes. The bypass valve is mechanically controlled.
LOL ! Took my Ram 1500 to the dealer to check the upper ball joints and trans as it is ' slipping ' . Was charged $100.00 to check trans level and tell me the upper ball joints are bad( Knew this already ) . Talked to the mechanic and was told the trans hadn't thrown any codes and wasn't physically checked as it takes two people had to be cold and is a pain to check. . . . . Sitting overnight prior to being pulled into this shop wasn't cold enough I guess ? Then sitting in the shop all day and needing to rescheduled to do what wasn't done on the first scheduled appointment. What is a pisser is the fact I'm a retired ASE master mechanic who is now disabled and physically unable to do the work but there is nothing wrong with my mind or how to read a time / labor guide . Oh by the way the upper A-arms were in stock to do the job , and the vehicle was approved by the warranty company to perform the work . Oh , I forgot to mention something as yet to be seen but I suspect I will be' surprised ' with . The transmission fluid whether added or changed etc will be deemed a ' service ' to be charged outright and not covered by warranty if Dodge service is like Toyota's service . I'm waiting to see as already I have had the expense of a rental vehicle , a hundred dollar deductible , another rental charge upcoming plus who knows if the work will be completed when it is returned to be performed again at the designated time ? Actually the night before as was required on the last appointed visit for repair . . Still better than the GM dealer in Gainsville though . They will lie send you back out after cheating the insurance company for work not done in an unsafe jerry rigged vehicle so you'll come back time and time again . Second time disabled and all , I located purchased parts , made repairs , video's the whole thing even the air suspension springs that weren't replaced along with the actuator or sensor arms that were jerry rigged with wire ties and sent old parts along with video to the IG and the insurance company I'd purchased the extended insurance plan through . My be going that route again it seems .
When your working by yourself, just checking the fluid takes a while to do. When your vehicle is in for service and they supposedly checked all your fluids, you know they're lying when the procedure takes this long and has to be started from a cool temp. I'm convinced they have a faster method that they allow dealers to do. Some vehicles I work on like bmw's, have no engine diptstick and is only checked by computer.
Hey John, Great vid. I am curious why you're worried about the oil cooler bypass? I would have to believe that the when the valve is in bypass, the oil in the cooler is trapped and can't bleed back. If it's bypassing the cooler, how could the oil in the cooler circulate back? Thanks for your thoughts on this.
The oil cooler bypass opens when the fluid hot. If you shut off the engine while the fluid is hot, some of the fluid can drain back into the transmission. Then the fluid and bypass valve will cool down. This will leave open pockets of air in the cooler until the valve opens again. Thanks for the feedback.!
I agree with cmbenson1911, there almost has to be a way to keep the fluid in the cooler to keep the levels correct. My guess is that it isn't controlled by temperature alone, I would hope it requires the fluid pressure to open it as well so as soon as you shut it off and the pressure drops it closes the valve.
Thanks!
Great tutorial.
I don't think I'll ever buy any model using this system.
We should stay away from any car using any closed ''lifetime fluid'' transmission correct? , or just zf 8 ones?
is that a electrically controlled tstat, maybe a heat gun and temp gun could cut a day off of a trans fluid check?
No, it is not electrically controlled. Good thought on the heat gun! Thanks!
Have this transmission on my newly purchased 2012 F11 gen BMW 530d xDrive. BMW proudly announces that the transmission fluid is "filled for life" - well, if the life of the car is 50 000 kms, then maybe. Otherwise don't listen to them. Also, BMW claims that in the engine of these vehicles, the engine oil should be replaced every 30 000 kms - which is absurd. Weird how in Britain they had a class action lawsuit against BMW for snapping engine timing chains. I don't think there was anything wrong with the chains. I'm absolutely sure there's something wrong with "30 000". Replace engine oil after every 10 000 kms (which in freedom units are 5 bald eagles and 1.75 bottles of coke). Greetings from Latvia - and thanks for this video. Probably saved me a lot of trouble (by not doing it myself - and questioning everything the transmission shop knows - before delivering the car to them).
I just did one of these on a bmw, the burn on my hand from that cat next to plug is healing fine .... dumbest crap ive ever seen .... love my old cars ...
lmao I didn't burn myself that bad since I had long sleeves on but it is absolutely ridiculous.
I’m about to do it on mine kinda scared 😂
The should of just left the dipstick useless upgrade
Excellent video, and great job answering questions. I will leave this to the pro's. Hard to find a good mechanic even at the dealership.
Thank you!