If HMS Courageous and Glorious also mounted 18 inch guns like Furious and a 4th battlecruiser had been built to Furious's lines as well. Could HMS Vanguard have been an 18 inch armed vessel, could they enlarge the deign to fit 8 x 18 inch guns in twin mounts or would designing a new twin 18 inch turret be too much hassle at the time?
In a world without missiles, subs and aviation where battleships remained relevant/(dominant?), would the USN have eventually adopted its 18" prototype guns (being the maximum practical calibre, if they did would they have tried to develop 3-gun turrets like the Japanese did or Vermont in WoWS, widening the Panama Canal to fit the new battleships) or would they have stayed with the 16"s, maybe developing 4-gun turrets like Maine and/or rates of fire of 3 rpm and above for the 16" guns (would such rates of fire even be possible)?
This appears to be a fairly unanimous opinion in the comments. Yours appears to be first posted, one time I don't gripe tyhe duplicate comments subjects.
as regards to the second world war, it's hard to rate a ship when it had precious few engagements to rate it with. good at running away under smoke though.
@@raverdeath100 Italian rangefinding was always held in high regard by the British. Just before the first example of "running away under smoke" one of the 12.6-inch battleships was showing how well it could range in on another battleship. Warspite got the hit in first though. But on careful inspection, the Battle of Calabria was a close match and the Italian materiel was clearly up to scratch. Very easy to rate a ship when you consider things like that. It's why I eschew Iowa-worship, because those damn things performed very little better in terms of finding the range and hitting surface targets at battle ranges; sinking a cripple at eight NM is not anything to be amazed by.
@@AndrewGivens yawn - you seem to think this is a dick waving contest. my point is quite simple - with newer battleships than the RN, with more cruisers than the RN and with more destroyers than the RN (lets not forget that the ships were on the whole, newer as well) the Regia Marina should have dominated. the gunnery was, in Cunningham's own words "exceptional". all it took was a few RN destroyers to show up and the italian fleet legged it. as i said, hard to rate a warship when the when it doesn't want to *war*
Very good as usual! Yes during ww2 they saw little deployment, also because the available fuel was diverted to the Littorios. They participated in the convoy escort operations of late 41' (including first sirte) early 42' and that's it. Aftet the war they also became flagships of the postwar Italian navy
The rebuilt Cavours and Doria/Duilio classes have some of the cleanest looking lines among the BBs active in WWII, they're really elegant. I wonder if their extreme rebuilds actually came in cheaper than simply scrapping the old ones and building entirely new ships though...
For the Cavours it was defenetly worth, since both ships cost in total 400 millions of italian lire which is basicaly half the cost of one Littorio. The Duilios are another story as the cost for both ships was basicaly equal to the cost of a new Littorio and maybe an extra Littorio would have done more in ww2 compered to these ships. Is all pretty much up for debate thought.
@@tommasogubiani3768 You can't just boil it down to the financial value though. The material expenses, long-lead items, shipyard and manufacturing availability were a huge considerations for why rebuilds were preferred over building more of the Littorio-class.
@@SkywalkerWroc of course but evaluating those factors is a much harder task and would require an in depth study, not really worthed for a you tube comment.
I have always the designs that the Italian naval architects came up with fascinating. Given the restrictions they were hobbled with, very interesting and creative (and beautiful) designs.
I wrote/begged several model manufacturers about 20 years ago to address the lack of 1:700 scale Italian & French capital ships in plastic model form. I cited these ships & Richelieu, ect. Some 3 years later or so, they were on the market. Did I do it ? I like to think I had SOMETHING to do with it.... who knows ? All I know is I was extremely pleased, as well some others !! 🚬😎👍
I agree that French and Italian, and Russian as well, WW2 ships are under-represented on the market (really just 3 Littorios and 2 Richielius, so only 2 different types). If you know of other plastic (not resin) 1:700s like these, the French Dunkerque/Strasbourgs, and Russian WW1 battleship upgrades please help me with locating them. For that matter where are any French, Italian, Russian and Dutch heavy and/or light cruisers? And, if there are endless variations of the Graf Zeppelins where is the Aquila? Battle "fame" would appear to be a major consideration on the part of manufacturers, or in the case of one Japanese manufacturer Allied ships sunk by the IJN. Anyway, thanks for your campaign and keep writing those letters because there is a whole flotilla of deserving ships awaiting their day.
Ever since the old days of NavyField and later WoWS, the Andrea Doria's have always been one of my favorite looking ships, glad to see it get a guide finally.
There no shell problems with italian 320mm ammunition, it was debunked in the most in depth book the shiips, wich considering your comment i guess you read right?
I've been waiting for this ever since the video on Conte di Cavour. I've always loved the Italian dreadnoughts and I'm glad that more people are learning about these often overshadowed ships.
@@scottgiles7546 guide 2,089: The Red Beard Class of Viking Longships. "705 was a rather pivotal year for Viking ship building. It saw the transition from..."
We think of battleships as being humongous steel behemoths, but the P&O ferries out of Dover are about twice the displacement when loaded. Plenty of firepower too. In the bars and duty free. 🤣
I remember gliding down the Tyne on a North Sea ferry in summer '05 when one of the RN carriers came up and docked. Standing on the ferry's deck, we were waaay higher up than the flightdeck of that teeny tiny carrier. Yeah, some ferries can be stupidly big.
Nice succinct overview of two excellent Mediterranean battleships. Italy did tend to frequently go a bit 'Fisherific' with their pre-WW2 capital ships, often seeming to prefer punching the enemy in the face, at speed, over defending themselves. The conversions of these two are, without any doubt, the most excellent rebuilds of any gun capital in all of history; taking previously adequate but by-then obsolescent ships and turning out a pair of very modern and capable second-class battleships. Literally *EVERY. SINGLE. THING* about them was made better. Hats off to the Italian engineers and dockyard workers.
You can argue whether refitting the Cavours and the Dorias was necessary, given the cost and their later use. However, you can't argue they were some of the most beautiful ships to sail the Meditteranean !
Just want to say that I love that Drach is still using the computer voice for the outro. I remember when he stopped and then almost immediately started again, but that was years ago now. So its great that he still uses it. Never forget where you came from, right?
When I first saw images of this and other Italian battleships and warships in the Sixties (my father having among many other battles having been torpedoed on the Nelson during a Malta convoy ) I thought such Italian warships attractive. However like many pleasing Italian products they had similar design issues (as indeed do all warships to this day as they are compromises) but more so!. 👍🏻🏴
Thank you so much Sensei. I love Learning from you. If I fall asleep with something else on I wake up to Drachinifel. Like your so calm voice is easy to listen to. I have cancelled channels that got all hyper and shouty. Thanks for the what you do.
7:32 I believe there was a destroyer involved with helping Duilio run aground here, the destroyer's captain would later command the ill fated ocean liner, Andria Doria
Could you cover Italo-Turkish war of 1911? Itali gained Lybia and Dodecanes as the result of war, but geography implies that there had to some naval operations and possibly even battles?
@@Frank-pc2rs I only know that a German officer inspecting affter the war (in Tripoly?) the ships that Germany sold to Turkey just a couple years previous, was appaled by the state they were in, and not from combat, which they had none, but from pure neglience.
These ships were homely at best when they were first launched, but their refits turned them into the best looking battleships I've ever seen. Italians could make a septic tank stylish... (With above-average maintenance required)
@@gregorywright4918 Believe you are correct. Many of the WWI era ships were originally fitted with coal/oil fired boilers. By WWII, most had been refitted with oil fired boilers which were more efficient.
I’m currently doing an Ultimate Admirals run as Italy. I’ve made it to 1932 as of now and although I have a large, very advanced navy….i still have 2 older battleships from 1915 that have gone through MULTIPLE refits. Those two literally took on 7-to-1 odd when I got into a war with the ottomans and basically saved me in that war. They’re now a local-ish force only…but they are never going to be scrapped. They look great and hit well, and with upgrades make for great anti-cruiser ships with 29knts speed. The Gabagool Squad
What Italy did actually obtain with its 4 reconstructions were just 4 battle cruisers fully comparable to the British WW1 Lion class, nothing worse but nothing better.
Thank you for the insightful video about the Italian ship Andrea Doria! Just wanted to mention that there were actually two ships with that name: the luxury ocean liner SS Andrea Doria and the battleship RN Andrea Doria, both named after the renowned Italian admiral Andrea Doria. It's a common mix-up, and your video helped clear it up for me. Great content as always!
It is easy to forget how much buoyancy makes it convenient to move heavy guns. When Drachinifel mentions "smaller guns" like the 3.5" or 90 mm guns had 5 pairs on each side.
The earlier pictures, with no superstructure to speak of, seemed very odd. I saw the conning tower, but having just enough to see over the turrets, very unusual
Interestingly, the Andrea Doria was scrapped in the middle of the Atlantic with the help of the Swedish ocean liner Stockholm. Oh wait, wrong Andrea Doria...
Well, not quite the middle. Actually, close enough to the American coast that the wreck is shallow enough to dive to, at least by experienced divers. But I still appreciate the joke.
I always had a soft spot for the unique set up for the AD with her 3-2-3-2-3 setup and later refit to 3-2-2-3 that the uss Nevada also had. Or the 2-3-3-2 of the Pensacola. Or the ranger with her 6 funnels that folded over to allow carrier operation. Or the Japanese side spewing exhaust with the ability to open to vent exhaust in the event a list was so bad the normal outlet would be in the water. (such as akagi and kaga before their flat top refit)
Probably a good thing they did not sortie to oppose allied landing, I am not sure how well they would have faired against allied ships supporting the landing,
I have a weak spot for these ships, especially the "D's", Duilio and Doria. Although maybe not that efficient, and not a good bargain for Italy's scant resources, they look GREAT!
The History Guy recently covered the Battle of Shimonoseki straights, USS Wyoming. I would really like to see a more in depth technical read of the battle by you.
That guy who carelessly died was a General because until 45 at least, engineering officers in Italy had Army ranks like "Colonello di Genio Navale". At least they had ranks while in the Imperial German navy they just had "Marine-Ingenieur" titles and silver stripes as rank... Though the Kriegsmarine gave the Engineers ranks but just added (ing.) behind them.
Another great video about a class that has always interested me. Again it is mentioned that multiple thin armoured decks are not as effective as a single deck equivalent to the total thickness. Is there a rule of thumb that equates multiple decks to a dingle thick one?
By chance, have you done a video on the pros and cons of dual gun turrets vs. triple and quadruple gun turrets? If not, do you have any links to anyone who has done this comparison? Video or text.
Just a little nitpick, but a quite important one. After the war the Andrea Doria and Duilio would serve just briefly in the Regia Marina, before the change of the Kingdom in the Italian Republic. So, in their service up to the 50s they would serve in the Marina Militare (Italian Navy), not the Regia Marina (Royal Navy), because, of course, the king was gone - an excellent thing, if you ask me. Interestingly enough, these two are up to this day the only battleships that has been in active service in the Republican Marina Militare. Coincidentally, their namesakes are very appropriate in a republican context (Caio Duilio being a great admiral of the Roman Republic, and Andrea Doria being, beside a badass admiral, also considered the protector and a father of the nation for the Republic of Genoa). In fact their names have being used and reused in pair in the Marina Militare for capital ships of the same class not less than three times. After the battleships, as missile cruisers, and today as missile destroyers.
@@preed5270 no sir, I'm sorry to inform you that you're wrong. I encourage you to check your facts better, next time. The ship that was given to U.S.S.R. (not Russia, btw) was the Giulio Cesare, which was of the earlier Conte di Cavour Class. That class comprised, besides the Conte di Cavour and the Giulio Cesare, also the Leonardo da Vinci that was lost in WWI because of a sabotage. Andrea Doria and Duilio were indeed kept in the Regia Marina, and later Marina Militare, up until the 50s, and were both stricken from naval register on the same year, 1956. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Doria-class_battleship Their name were used again in pair for the cruisers of the Andrea Doria class of 1958, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Doria-class_cruiser and today for the two destroyers of the Horizon class. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon-class_frigate
I love this ship in War Thunder. Good armor, good guns, acceptable speed, absolutely beautiful looks. Duilio though... now that one is suffering. Sure, guns are 320 mm, but so what if the explosive filler is pitiful and the rate of fire was unimpressive. That 90mm though... IRL it was arguably the best AA gun that Italy designed in that time period, but I can't help but wonder just how good it would be with VT shells...
Personally I think the secondary triple turrets should have been mirrored at the rear as well but overall I think the Italian navy did well with what they had. The same DOES NOT apply for the army or air force who could definitely do better especially if they had just copied Germany's homework in the mid to late 30's
Hi there, would you consider doing a special on capital ship's underwater torpedo tubes? I cannot be the only one curious about the practicalities of their use, loading, successes (if any) and other related stories - such as a claim USS Texas flooded hers on one side to gain extra elevation off Normandy? (also please tell me what the hell is that debris thrown up by what I think could be Brit 15in guns in your opening credits..?)
the money spent on the modernisation of these ships would have been better spent to build one from scratch and convert the Caracciolo to a carrier. oh well.
Ah, but Italy didn't have all the other tech and doctrinal work to operate carriers...nor did they really need to given that the likely theater of operations was usually within range of land based airplanes.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
If HMS Courageous and Glorious also mounted 18 inch guns like Furious and a 4th battlecruiser had been built to Furious's lines as well. Could HMS Vanguard have been an 18 inch armed vessel, could they enlarge the deign to fit 8 x 18 inch guns in twin mounts or would designing a new twin 18 inch turret be too much hassle at the time?
How well would they have fared against the older battleships like Royal Sovereign?
Would you consider an article on the USN 'Fleet Train', their Pacific supply system in WW2?
How did all that added superstructure affect the ships stability ?
In a world without missiles, subs and aviation where battleships remained relevant/(dominant?), would the USN have eventually adopted its 18" prototype guns (being the maximum practical calibre, if they did would they have tried to develop 3-gun turrets like the Japanese did or Vermont in WoWS, widening the Panama Canal to fit the new battleships) or would they have stayed with the 16"s, maybe developing 4-gun turrets like Maine and/or rates of fire of 3 rpm and above for the 16" guns (would such rates of fire even be possible)?
The Regia Marina battleship rebuilds probably win the grand prize for the most extreme capital ship rebuilds ever.
"TODAY! On Capitol Ship Make Overs..."
HMS Victorious would like to lay her claim to this title methinks...
Not going to lie, I thought this was a completely different ship from the one featured in WWII! Incredible.
Looking, too, at least to my eye.
@@weldonwin This Old Ship....
The Italians, whatever they built had to be pleasing to the eye. It didn't matter if it was a car or a battleship.
Don't forget the women! Ruined my life more than one time.
Blasting you, but with style
I'll give you *one* exception: SM. 79 Sparviero
But hey, exceptions prove the rule, right 😉
@@Seraphus87 Aka "Il gobbo maledetto"
The Italians build beautiful cars and beautiful women.
Okay they were a little undergunned but after the rebuild they look so good.
Agreed!
This appears to be a fairly unanimous opinion in the comments. Yours appears to be first posted, one time I don't gripe tyhe duplicate comments subjects.
Hypothetical scenario: Andrea Doria vs. Scharnhorst, also looking good, even more undergunned, but faster and better armoured. Any bets on A.Doria?
All Italian capital ships could win beauty contests I think.
Impressive overhauls and rebuilds. Especially regarding the smaller weaponry. Beautiful lines as well.
1:46 “Then in 1910…. the Regia Marina chief naval engineer died. Very careless of him.”
There’s your Drachism of the day.
We need a spreadsheet of these; charting them through all his vids.
Why? Exactly whst happened to him?
@@vic5015 He _died_
@@vic5015 he died.
@@tommantek3632oof 💀
Both the rebuild and the Littorio class were some of the most elegant warships that graced the Mediterranean sea ...
Whatever their capacities, these boats became very pretty after the rebuilds.
as regards to the second world war, it's hard to rate a ship when it had precious few engagements to rate it with. good at running away under smoke though.
"She's a ship, not a boat".
I can't even remember which movie that's from.
Bonus points if you can.
@@raverdeath100 Italian rangefinding was always held in high regard by the British. Just before the first example of "running away under smoke" one of the 12.6-inch battleships was showing how well it could range in on another battleship. Warspite got the hit in first though. But on careful inspection, the Battle of Calabria was a close match and the Italian materiel was clearly up to scratch. Very easy to rate a ship when you consider things like that. It's why I eschew Iowa-worship, because those damn things performed very little better in terms of finding the range and hitting surface targets at battle ranges; sinking a cripple at eight NM is not anything to be amazed by.
@@AndrewGivens yawn - you seem to think this is a dick waving contest. my point is quite simple - with newer battleships than the RN, with more cruisers than the RN and with more destroyers than the RN (lets not forget that the ships were on the whole, newer as well) the Regia Marina should have dominated. the gunnery was, in Cunningham's own words "exceptional". all it took was a few RN destroyers to show up and the italian fleet legged it. as i said, hard to rate a warship when the when it doesn't want to *war*
@@AndrewGivens FUBAR?
Very good as usual! Yes during ww2 they saw little deployment, also because the available fuel was diverted to the Littorios. They participated in the convoy escort operations of late 41' (including first sirte) early 42' and that's it.
Aftet the war they also became flagships of the postwar Italian navy
These ships would definitely win a beauty contest if there ever was one for Battleships.
She Actually became a very beautiful ship …The perfect Rake on the bow that little bit of tuck in the stern .. Motto Bella ..
The rebuilt Cavours and Doria/Duilio classes have some of the cleanest looking lines among the BBs active in WWII, they're really elegant. I wonder if their extreme rebuilds actually came in cheaper than simply scrapping the old ones and building entirely new ships though...
For the Cavours it was defenetly worth, since both ships cost in total 400 millions of italian lire which is basicaly half the cost of one Littorio.
The Duilios are another story as the cost for both ships was basicaly equal to the cost of a new Littorio and maybe an extra Littorio would have done more in ww2 compered to these ships.
Is all pretty much up for debate thought.
@@tommasogubiani3768 You can't just boil it down to the financial value though. The material expenses, long-lead items, shipyard and manufacturing availability were a huge considerations for why rebuilds were preferred over building more of the Littorio-class.
@@SkywalkerWroc of course but evaluating those factors is a much harder task and would require an in depth study, not really worthed for a you tube comment.
I have always the designs that the Italian naval architects came up with fascinating. Given the restrictions they were hobbled with, very interesting and creative (and beautiful) designs.
That's quite the refit. Italy's capital ships of the world wars are underrated.
I wrote/begged several model manufacturers about 20 years ago to address the lack of 1:700 scale Italian & French capital ships in plastic model form. I cited these ships & Richelieu, ect.
Some 3 years later or so, they were on the market. Did I do it ? I like to think I had SOMETHING to do with it.... who knows ? All I know is I was extremely pleased, as well some others !!
🚬😎👍
I agree that French and Italian, and Russian as well, WW2 ships are under-represented on the market (really just 3 Littorios and 2 Richielius, so only 2 different types). If you know of other plastic (not resin) 1:700s like these, the French Dunkerque/Strasbourgs, and Russian WW1 battleship upgrades please help me with locating them. For that matter where are any French, Italian, Russian and Dutch heavy and/or light cruisers? And, if there are endless variations of the Graf Zeppelins where is the Aquila? Battle "fame" would appear to be a major consideration on the part of manufacturers, or in the case of one Japanese manufacturer Allied ships sunk by the IJN. Anyway, thanks for your campaign and keep writing those letters because there is a whole flotilla of deserving ships awaiting their day.
Ever since the old days of NavyField and later WoWS, the Andrea Doria's have always been one of my favorite looking ships, glad to see it get a guide finally.
Wonderful looking ships - these vessels should have seen more action - better shells and more fuel allowing!
There no shell problems with italian 320mm ammunition, it was debunked in the most in depth book the shiips, wich considering your comment i guess you read right?
The best rebuilds
Love this ships, Italians made warships look elegant
All those Italian refits sure turned out beautiful.
I've been waiting for this ever since the video on Conte di Cavour. I've always loved the Italian dreadnoughts and I'm glad that more people are learning about these often overshadowed ships.
Wow, the modernization program had them looking like brand new designs.
My god this is the 355th guide... wow...
Must be running low on ships to do. (Guide 1023: Interwar ship boats of the Royal Navy)
@@scottgiles7546 guide 2,089: The Red Beard Class of Viking Longships.
"705 was a rather pivotal year for Viking ship building. It saw the transition from..."
@@arthurfisher1857 You guys are cracking me up. Seriously, not JUST quantity, but the quality of posts remains very high indeed.
We think of battleships as being humongous steel behemoths, but the P&O ferries out of Dover are about twice the displacement when loaded. Plenty of firepower too. In the bars and duty free. 🤣
I remember gliding down the Tyne on a North Sea ferry in summer '05 when one of the RN carriers came up and docked. Standing on the ferry's deck, we were waaay higher up than the flightdeck of that teeny tiny carrier.
Yeah, some ferries can be stupidly big.
Nice succinct overview of two excellent Mediterranean battleships. Italy did tend to frequently go a bit 'Fisherific' with their pre-WW2 capital ships, often seeming to prefer punching the enemy in the face, at speed, over defending themselves.
The conversions of these two are, without any doubt, the most excellent rebuilds of any gun capital in all of history; taking previously adequate but by-then obsolescent ships and turning out a pair of very modern and capable second-class battleships. Literally *EVERY. SINGLE. THING* about them was made better.
Hats off to the Italian engineers and dockyard workers.
You can argue whether refitting the Cavours and the Dorias was necessary, given the cost and their later use.
However, you can't argue they were some of the most beautiful ships to sail the Meditteranean !
Always love it when the thumbnail shows that green, white, red flag! Beautiful ships, favourite navy.
Just want to say that I love that Drach is still using the computer voice for the outro. I remember when he stopped and then almost immediately started again, but that was years ago now. So its great that he still uses it.
Never forget where you came from, right?
It’d be lovely to see a video on the HMS Fylgia, the world’s smallest armored cruiser that somehow managed to last into the post-ww2 era.
When I first saw images of this and other Italian battleships and warships in the Sixties (my father having among many other battles having been torpedoed on the Nelson during a Malta convoy ) I thought such Italian warships attractive. However like many pleasing Italian products they had similar design issues (as indeed do all warships to this day as they are compromises) but more so!. 👍🏻🏴
Yes, very pretty after the refit! Glad they got some use after the waar out of them.
Been waiting for this video I just got Andrea Doria in WT
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Thank you so much Sensei. I love Learning from you. If I fall asleep with something else on I wake up to Drachinifel. Like your so calm voice is easy to listen to. I have cancelled channels that got all hyper and shouty. Thanks for the what you do.
7:32 I believe there was a destroyer involved with helping Duilio run aground here, the destroyer's captain would later command the ill fated ocean liner, Andria Doria
Gota admit she became a beautiful mature old lady, the engineer that made her rebuild project had good taste.
Could you cover Italo-Turkish war of 1911? Itali gained Lybia and Dodecanes as the result of war, but geography implies that there had to some naval operations and possibly even battles?
There were and Italy dominated.
@@Frank-pc2rs I only know that a German officer inspecting affter the war (in Tripoly?) the ships that Germany sold to Turkey just a couple years previous, was appaled by the state they were in, and not from combat, which they had none, but from pure neglience.
Your shot at 2.00...I would have asked at the time, 'What cost savings are generated by articulating two warships and where is the hinge?'.
These ships were homely at best when they were first launched, but their refits turned them into the best looking battleships I've ever seen. Italians could make a septic tank stylish...
(With above-average maintenance required)
And I thought Kongo class were the most extensive rebuild out of WW1 era capital ships
Kongos kept the turrets the same...
@@gregorywright4918 A stern extension, some extra armor and pagoda superstructures.
@@timclaus8313 I thought they got some boiler work too...
@@gregorywright4918 Believe you are correct. Many of the WWI era ships were originally fitted with coal/oil fired boilers. By WWII, most had been refitted with oil fired boilers which were more efficient.
I love these ships, heavy rebuilds, good looking, balanced and fast. I also like the 10 gun broadside
I have very little confidence in Italian engineering, but they sure know how to make something look good.
Nice looking ships.
I’m currently doing an Ultimate Admirals run as Italy. I’ve made it to 1932 as of now and although I have a large, very advanced navy….i still have 2 older battleships from 1915 that have gone through MULTIPLE refits. Those two literally took on 7-to-1 odd when I got into a war with the ottomans and basically saved me in that war. They’re now a local-ish force only…but they are never going to be scrapped. They look great and hit well, and with upgrades make for great anti-cruiser ships with 29knts speed. The Gabagool Squad
I'd like to see a vid on the USS _Alarm_ and its experimental propulsion systems, if you could.
What Italy did actually obtain with its 4 reconstructions were just 4 battle cruisers fully comparable to the British WW1 Lion class, nothing worse but nothing better.
Thank you for the insightful video about the Italian ship Andrea Doria! Just wanted to mention that there were actually two ships with that name: the luxury ocean liner SS Andrea Doria and the battleship RN Andrea Doria, both named after the renowned Italian admiral Andrea Doria. It's a common mix-up, and your video helped clear it up for me. Great content as always!
Today you have also a modern Italian destroyer (classe Orizzonte) named Andrea Doria (D 553)
Probably the best looking battleships ever.
Thanks for the history and it's a fun ship to play.
It is easy to forget how much buoyancy makes it convenient to move heavy guns. When Drachinifel mentions "smaller guns" like the 3.5" or 90 mm guns had 5 pairs on each side.
This is interesting, also I have a suggestion for a ship from the Royal Thai navy, the Thonburi class.
Thank you Drach!
Waiting for the drop!!!
The earlier pictures, with no superstructure to speak of, seemed very odd. I saw the conning tower, but having just enough to see over the turrets, very unusual
Its amazing how modern the refit made it look.
Ciao Bella!
I love how they looks like mini-Littorios after rebuilt
As with the rest of the WWII-era Italian battleships, the Duilios look amazing. :O
Interestingly, the Andrea Doria was scrapped in the middle of the Atlantic with the help of the Swedish ocean liner Stockholm.
Oh wait, wrong Andrea Doria...
Hah, I know my brain had a slight seize up when I saw the name too
Well, not quite the middle. Actually, close enough to the American coast that the wreck is shallow enough to dive to, at least by experienced divers.
But I still appreciate the joke.
Hardly the middle - shallow water off Nantucket...
I always had a soft spot for the unique set up for the AD with her 3-2-3-2-3 setup and later refit to 3-2-2-3 that the uss Nevada also had. Or the 2-3-3-2 of the Pensacola. Or the ranger with her 6 funnels that folded over to allow carrier operation. Or the Japanese side spewing exhaust with the ability to open to vent exhaust in the event a list was so bad the normal outlet would be in the water. (such as akagi and kaga before their flat top refit)
Probably a good thing they did not sortie to oppose allied landing, I am not sure how well they would have faired against allied ships supporting the landing,
I love the look of these ships. French and Italian BBs don't get the attention that they are due.
I have a weak spot for these ships, especially the "D's", Duilio and Doria. Although maybe not that efficient, and not a good bargain for Italy's scant resources, they look GREAT!
Masters of the aesthetic dating back to the Renaissance. I'm sure even their tug boats had beautiful lines. lol
Transformation, Modernization, Rebuilt, Rebirth, Perfection!
Jokes aside, this is wonderfull!
1:00 Do not forget Sardinia.
I m kinda Impressed with this ship they Modernized it well
Thanks Drach. More or less... I don't remember the last 'less'.
The History Guy recently covered the Battle of Shimonoseki straights, USS Wyoming. I would really like to see a more in depth technical read of the battle by you.
Awesome thanks 👍👍
Yesterday would have been the day of the battle of Lissa...
That guy who carelessly died was a General because until 45 at least, engineering officers in Italy had Army ranks like "Colonello di Genio Navale". At least they had ranks while in the Imperial German navy they just had "Marine-Ingenieur" titles and silver stripes as rank... Though the Kriegsmarine gave the Engineers ranks but just added (ing.) behind them.
Is it bad that the very first thing I thought when I saw this video pop up was "Now, what if Stockholm had hit this instead?"
Another great video about a class that has always interested me. Again it is mentioned that multiple thin armoured decks are not as effective as a single deck equivalent to the total thickness. Is there a rule of thumb that equates multiple decks to a dingle thick one?
Not too bad as super cruisers.
i guess the IJN Yubari episode has been delayed :P
Whatever you want to say about Italy there sure did have some nice battleships
At 140 it looks like the ship is moving fast forward but the smoke looks like its moving forward as well.
What is going on?
It could very well be both, if there is a strong enough wind blowing.
Aw yeah, battleship time again!
So it wasn't involved in the collision of the Stockholm and the Andrea Doria then? 🙂
😂
From this Andrea?
Stockholm would've gotten more than whistle blasts for failing to make way, that's for damn sure 😉
Just breaks my heart every time I hear a battleship was scrapped.
Still the best looking dreadnought modernization (imo)
By chance, have you done a video on the pros and cons of dual gun turrets vs. triple and quadruple gun turrets? If not, do you have any links to anyone who has done this comparison? Video or text.
There have been one or two Drydock questions on that, not sure which ones but someone was compiling an index to them.
Just a little nitpick, but a quite important one. After the war the Andrea Doria and Duilio would serve just briefly in the Regia Marina, before the change of the Kingdom in the Italian Republic. So, in their service up to the 50s they would serve in the Marina Militare (Italian Navy), not the Regia Marina (Royal Navy), because, of course, the king was gone - an excellent thing, if you ask me.
Interestingly enough, these two are up to this day the only battleships that has been in active service in the Republican Marina Militare. Coincidentally, their namesakes are very appropriate in a republican context (Caio Duilio being a great admiral of the Roman Republic, and Andrea Doria being, beside a badass admiral, also considered the protector and a father of the nation for the Republic of Genoa).
In fact their names have being used and reused in pair in the Marina Militare for capital ships of the same class not less than three times. After the battleships, as missile cruisers, and today as missile destroyers.
Russia was given one for WW2 war reparations.
@@preed5270 no sir, I'm sorry to inform you that you're wrong. I encourage you to check your facts better, next time.
The ship that was given to U.S.S.R. (not Russia, btw) was the Giulio Cesare, which was of the earlier Conte di Cavour Class. That class comprised, besides the Conte di Cavour and the Giulio Cesare, also the Leonardo da Vinci that was lost in WWI because of a sabotage.
Andrea Doria and Duilio were indeed kept in the Regia Marina, and later Marina Militare, up until the 50s, and were both stricken from naval register on the same year, 1956.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Doria-class_battleship
Their name were used again in pair for the cruisers of the Andrea Doria class of 1958, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Doria-class_cruiser
and today for the two destroyers of the Horizon class. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon-class_frigate
Nice trivia.
Thanks for sharing
I love this ship in War Thunder. Good armor, good guns, acceptable speed, absolutely beautiful looks.
Duilio though... now that one is suffering. Sure, guns are 320 mm, but so what if the explosive filler is pitiful and the rate of fire was unimpressive. That 90mm though... IRL it was arguably the best AA gun that Italy designed in that time period, but I can't help but wonder just how good it would be with VT shells...
After modernization they were beautiful ships. It is a shame one wasn't preserved as a museum ship.
Oh hey the new Azure Lane BB, pitty that she doesn't have much history. Hopefully since she got a refit she will get a refit to UR in Azure Lane too.
Weeb
Personally I think the secondary triple turrets should have been mirrored at the rear as well but overall I think the Italian navy did well with what they had.
The same DOES NOT apply for the army or air force who could definitely do better especially if they had just copied Germany's homework in the mid to late 30's
Il Duce thought the Nazis were copying HIS homework...
Andrea Doria? Isn't that the one they did the song about?
"Elvis who?"
Hi there, would you consider doing a special on capital ship's underwater torpedo tubes? I cannot be the only one curious about the practicalities of their use, loading, successes (if any) and other related stories - such as a claim USS Texas flooded hers on one side to gain extra elevation off Normandy?
(also please tell me what the hell is that debris thrown up by what I think could be Brit 15in guns in your opening credits..?)
Caracciolo class next please?
Boring out the barrels. So - they reused old ones? Was that a regular practice?
Should this be Guide #345?
Or did I miss a bunch?
Giulio Cesare was given to the Soviets after the war.
I like her high super structure that looks like she's wearing a chef's hat.
Not to be confused with the cruise ship
👍👍
the money spent on the modernisation of these ships would have been better spent to build one from scratch and convert the Caracciolo to a carrier. oh well.
Ah, but Italy didn't have all the other tech and doctrinal work to operate carriers...nor did they really need to given that the likely theater of operations was usually within range of land based airplanes.
Italy didn't need an aircraft carrier they already had one it's called Sicily
@@stuartburton1167yet that Unsinkable Italian Aircraft Carrier couldn't crack open the nut that is the Unsinkable Malta.
@@dclark142002 Yes they had nearby airfields, but the land-minded air force did not give good naval support.
@@gregorywright4918 I suspect quite a number of sailors on the Malta convoy runs would see things differently.
I wonder what they did with the removed turrets?
☮
Nothing
Hei drach did you delete the "next on the list " ships you have it in your early vids
I think it's so sad to hear,Sold for Scrap,the Enterprise one of the biggest 😥