Could you go into detail about the designation about corvettes, frigates, sloops and destroyers. What are the differences between them both design and their mission profiles.
Please excuse me if I'm missing something obvious, but why didn't destroyers have torpedo launchers built into the hull akin to submarines' tubes? Even if you didn't want to lose the deck mounted ones, wouldn't being able to carry four or maybe eight more that could be shot whilst presenting your narrowest profile have some value?
I see USS Benson was "sponsored" by Mrs. William S. Benson, the widow of Adm. Benson? Is "sponsored" the same as "being launched by" - ie, Mrs Benson launched the ship named for her husband? (cracked the champagne to the bow etc).
My grandfather served aboard Hilary P. Jones DD 427. She spent most of the war in the Atlantic, escorting supply ships from Newfoundland and fending off U-Boats
That was rough duty. My grandfather served aboard a cruiser in WWII that did convoy escort across the North Atlantic for a few months before being reassigned to the Mediterranean. He always said that the weather in the North Atlantic was the worst part of the war.
@@Tom_The_Cat Who was Hilary P. Jones,, it's unusual to have a Navy ship named after a female so I'm guessing she was a civil war nurse or an abolitionist schoolteacher or something...
@@micnorton9487 Part of me wishes that was the case. Hilary Pollard Jones Jr was a US Naval officer during the Spanish-American War and WW1. He retired as an Admiral in 1927, going on to serve as an advisor for the Geneva Disarmament Conference and the London Naval Treaty His father actually served in the Union Army during the Civil War
My father served on a Gleaves class destroyer, the USS Woolsey, DD-437, during WWII in the Med from 1939 - 1945. He joined the Navy 2 weeks after his 17th birthday and was always proud of his service, as am I. Thank you for providing this video.
@@hazchemel The Woolsey's home port was the Chelsea Naval base in Boston and is where the USS Constitution calls its home port as well. The ship remained moth balled there until 1970. Thanks for asking.
@@omicrontheta3894 And even those who weren't firing the main and secondary guns of the Laffey, they picked all the guns in the ship and fired with M1's, Tommy and from what I heard, even shotguns!!!
My father was on the USS MacKenzie (DD-614) during the war. Mainly used as convoy escort but did sink a sub. At one point they went to help at Anzio. He told me lots of stories lol. I myself worked on the flight deck of the JFK and then went to a P-3c Squadron out of NAS Brunswick ME. VP-8. It was nice to see this show up this morning to remind me of my pap. Thank you.
@@JTA1961 Not exactly sure how to take your comment so I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and say it was nice in some way. I would say millions wouldn't have died had those krouts stayed the fk at home instead of putting my father in a position where he would be used as a prop in a conversation where he would be denying anyone anything. *Salute*
@@Gyphon Beeing a landrat from germany, I was always fascinated with naval history and subs of course. And even though I can't tell luv from lee, I do know that respect amongst sailors, even in wartimes was a thing. So don't let some stupid (either way) RUclips comment ruin your day. That beeing said, it's spelled Krauts as in 'Sauerkraut', preventing scurvy since 1776 (aproval stemp by Cook), you limeys :)
I served on the U.S. Cowell, DD547 in the mid 60’s … navigation officer. She was a very decorated WW2 Fletcher’ can that was the best over all destroyer considering armament, versatility , numbers produced and combat record. I remember her fondly.
I was a QM 3 serving aboard the John R. Craig DD 885 1967-1968. I always thought that Fletchers were beautiful ships, while the Gearings had been beautiful before FRAM.
My father served on USS Frankford (DD497). He never talked about his service and it was only after he was gone that I found out about DESRON 18 and its activities at Omaha Beach. I just tell my sons, "Your grandfather had a very busy morning."
when you take into consideration that 35k shp was more installed power than the Queen Elizabeth class battleship had, and was only 10k less than Nelson, it is quite the demonstration of the rule that every knot increase in speed needs an exponential increase in power. that is also a very interesting camo scheme at 02:12 sort of Hokusai-ish.
Man the benson class were an absolute awesome design and concept for a destroyer, I really enjoy playing my uss benson in world of warships legends 😊😊😊
My dad was on the USS Murphy DD-603. He was wounded off the coast of French Morocco by the Vichy French shore batteries. The ship had green shamrocks painted on the stacks(funnels).
Love to hear more about the USS Rodman. My farther served in her for both D-Day and Okinawa. Built in Bath Maine the Rodman DD456 was converted to DMS21 before going to the Pacific. On 4/6/45 Her sister ship The USS Emmons was sunk shortly after she had taken wounded off the Rodman. The rodman was "swamped" but didn't sink and after some repairs returned the the US for refit. My farther ran the analog firing system for the 5 inch guns. On the morning of April 6th dad had had enough of trying to sleep while the ship was fighting and went to his post early to help out. Shortly after his sleeping compartment took a direct hit, starboard side just forward of the aft forward turret just below the deck, by a Kamikaze aircraft killing the men in the compartment. My brother and I attended a ship reunion in Norfolk VA, in 1993 I think it was and met several of dad's shipmates. Believe me, they were all hearos. Dad gave me a copy of "Last Stand of the Tin Can Hearos" saying this is what it was like.
My grandfather served aboard the lead ship of the class - USS Benson (DD-421) from ‘43 to ‘46. My gramps and the Benson were in lots of theaters in the war - convoys in the North Atlantic, Mediterranean supporting the landings in Sicily, Italy and Southern France, and eventually they headed for the Pacific. My grandfather was at the helm when they transited the Panama Canal. In the Pacific they were in Hawaii, Wake Island, Okinawa and did escort and patrol duty between the Philippines and Tokyo Bay. One hell of a journey.
I just bought some Benson class destroyers for Victory at Sea, and I always love to watch your overviews of ships that make up my US and IJN fleets! Thanks for doing so much research and making such a great ship history series!
Interesting. Never heard of the Benson class destroyer before. Pre-Fletcher class I'm guessing. You can see a lot of the Fletcher's design in this ship. Especially with it's superstructure. Thanks Drachinifel
Fletcher is basically a Benson/Gleaves with a larger hull to accomodate all the weapons upgrades (increrasing top weight) and the additional crew that came with it. Other than that, they are quite similar. Gearing is a Fletcher on a widened hull, again for more displacement allowing for more top weight (mainly quad Bofors) to be installed.
@@ottovonbismarck2443if anything, the Allen M. Sumner class is more closely related to the Gearing class. It was a sort of destroyer technology breakthrough like with the Fubukis' being the first 'modern destroyer' the Allen M. Sumner was the first 'modern destroyer' equivalent of the late 1940s
@@ottovonbismarck2443llen M Sumner DDs are are practically a Fletcher hull with a different superstructure and 6 5in38s. Gearings were Sumners hulls that were stretched for more fuel capacity
@@usssimshullnumberdd-4095 From Fletcher to A.M.Sumner was not the big change as it looks. is basically the same but slightly lengthened and widened hull for stability issues to compensate expected additional top weights. Same engines and turbines etc. Superstructure re-work is "superficial cosmetics" in ship terms. The most important and most difficult things on a ship happen below the superstructure. For production continuity, major changes in that region were avoided at all costs, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered. Production numbers - on an already very good design which was the Fletcher ! - were more important than huge design changes. It was optimized to get max. deck space for 40mm Bofors with two main gun positions available. A, B and Y guns are still in the same positions. Sumner to Gearing is still basically the same hull - slightly lengthened and widened again.
My dad was on DD602 Meade when she was launched. Trained off the coast of Florida as a sonar sailor and headed to Guadalcanal for the sea battle against the Japanese navy, Iron Bottom Sound.
I was actually at NARA looking through engineering drawings for this class a little over a month ago as part of a ship’s history project for the Laffey. In the microfilm reels I found a set of 1937 dated contract plans for the Benson class that actually had the same torpedo arrangement that the Sims class had originally launched with, but otherwise almost the same as the as-commissioned design for Benson with a couple of idiosyncrasies such as a crows nest on the foremast and a different type of 5” director. I also found another unlabeled one with a wiring diagram/deck plan that suggests a superstructure more similar to the Mahan class, but with a breakwater in front of the #1 5” gun. I’m still not entirely sure where the latter fits in. But I found it interesting that the Bureau of Construction and Repair actually considered that torpedo arraignment for the Benson class.
@@kenkahre9262 honestly I’m not sure. I’d imagine they largely fell out of use in the interwar years, but I’m not sure. That might be a question for the Q&A. I really oughta schedule another NARA trip. Those drawings were fascinating. And I still got a little more than half of Laffey’s surviving deck logs to read through.
Now I can't get this song out of my head: "Benson, Arizona, blew warm wind through your hair. My body flies the galaxy, my heart longs to there. Benson, Arizona, the same stars in the sky. But they seemed so much kinder, when we watched them, you and I." - source, the movie, "Dark Star" - author, John Carpenter
The 3 most common unit chits on WW2 tabletop games(circa late '70's); Hurricanes-1940 Britain. Rifle Divisions- 1941 Russia. Benson Class DD's -1942 Solomons. ;-)
I served ex Benson (DD-14) after The Moon landing, great ship. she was replaced with tripod mast and AN/SPS-6B, SPS-10 & MK-25 Fire Control (analog based). More than 53 years ago....
My Dad, was on the USS Lansdale, the Gunner on the number 2 mount when the Destroyer DD 426 was torpedo by a Heinkel He 111’s. Dad said they were silhouetted by the explosion of high explosives aboard SS Paul Hamilton which blew her out of the water with 580 souls lost. Before the Lansdale sank after being torpedoed they still were fighting an it is reported that they shot down three planes. The last of those planes flew away from the bow, Dad’s gun mount…He tracked it an fired. He was sure they hit that plane and that was the last plane accredited to the Lansdale that night before she sank. Dad was in the water for about 6 hours as he held up another sailor with his life-vest the two of them shared it and they both were picked up by the destroyer escort Menges. Two German pilots that they had downed also were picked up by the Menges but the pilots were hidden by the officers aboard Menges in fear the surviving sailors would try to kill them. Dad said as the Menges would make a sweep picking up sailors, always moving at a reduced speed, the men in the water praised the ship, but as it would pass by an turn around to make another pass…the sailors in the water would curse at Menges and “you never heard such language in your life,” he told me laughing. Dad never saw the sailor he held up again, and thought he had passed away that night from hypothermia. In the 90s they had several ship reunions and the sailor that he held up was there and ran over to Dad and gave him a big hug. Thank you for sharing for all the sailors that served on Benson class destroyers.
First time I've heard of the USS Benson was playing Wolfpack on the Amiga, loved it! I thought I'd include a bit about the destroyer and tactics used in my history G.C.S.E (though really what I included was 95% irrelevant, I couldn't remember anything else that was more pertinent.....) I got an E.
How about a video on the Landing Ship, Tank? My grandfather served on one in the Pacific for a good portion of his Navy career (also serving as an Armed Guard in the Mediterranean for a while).
All US warships that i am familiar with spread out the power plant a lot, for exactly the reasons you stated. Damage control is a thing, and keeping your machinery spaces spread out means that any single failure won't kill the ship. Nuclear powered ships have the nuclear plants isolated and separated, and the machinery spaces isolated and separated as well. So you could theoretically power one engine room from it's opposing reactor, supposing that you took a hit or multiple hits that knocked out systems for both propulsion systems. Same for the electrical system. And don't get me started on the other redundancies designed in. For example a modern aircraft carrier can be steered by at least 3 different methods. Including mechanical winches (powered by the crew). Slow, but you could theoretically steer the ship that way.
Yo, Drachinifel, you think you can put some of these videos together for easier reference? Like put all of the British Cruisers you've covered so far into a joint video or more? The same for all the others. That way, it would be easier to reference them later. Mostly easier.
didn't realize how similar Benson/Gleaves were to Fletcher, at least armament wise -- kind of like baby Fletchers then? Was the real difference that Fletcher had additional displacement and therefore space for upgrades and new systems while Benson didn't? Otherwise, why is Fletcher considered one of the best DD designs of all time while Benson isn't really talked about and just sorta gets lumped in with all the other USN interwar DDs?
Yeah, basically. I'd say that the problem with the Benson class's reputation is that they were so small, the Navy was constantly fooling around with their armament, as Drach points out. One can never say just which Benson a given ship is. Whereas the Fletchers were standardized, and about the only armament change they saw was additional AA. Also, most of the Fletchers served in the Pacific, which was way more glamorous than the convoy duty or service in the Med that occupied most of the Bensons. Only a couple of Desrons worth of Bensons saw service in the Pacific. The skipper of one of them, Grayson, Frederick Bell, wrote a book about the ship called "Condition Red" which is still in print (abridged, alas). Or maybe it was that the Fletchers were big enough to keep that 5th-5" gun throughout the war.
They are about the same size as the British wartime emergency destroyers, and like them the small size meant upgrades on one area meant losing capability in another.
Aww yeah my girl laffey 1. Nothing like a destroyer that embodied the "BRING US CLOSER I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD" mentality, knife fighting a battleship to the end. US DD's were really crewed by absolute barking lunatics.
@@stargazer5784 I've thought about this. Sub-crazy and destroyer-crazy are slightly different, I think. First of all, you have to be crazy just to agree to go into a steel cigar, shut the hatches, and dive into the ocean, so submariners start off crazy. But their craziness has to be tempered with calculation, because it takes time and thought to set up an approach on a convoy and position yourself to get a good solution, and then even more craziness to endure 24-hour depth charge barrages. So there's a certain coldness to their craziness. Whereas in DDs, the craziness is more spontaneous, more "sieze the moment." There is no thought for survival, just for getting in and inflicting the most damage as fast as possible. It's a different order of crazy. Halsey was a destroyer man. Nimitz was a submariner. And let's not forget aviators, especially fighter jocks.
As opposed to the Polish DDs in Royal Navy service, which were crewed by careful, sober men who would never do anything even half as insane. >cough< ORP Piorun G65 >cough
I suppose at some point someone will have shouted "Benson,, Benson.. Ohh Jesus Christ,,, BENSON!!!" (Dated joke and reference, i know) when seeing this class/ship..
I kept waiting for Drach to relay a story of one of these, charging right an entire formation of Japanese ships and the admiral screaming at them to come back
Very interesting. I've formed an opinion that RN destroyers went into WW2 with better AA capability than the USN's. The American destroyers had the edge in ASUW. ASW? About the same.
USN destroyers had little emphasis on ASW, as that wasn't supposed to be their job. In the 1939-19431 period where the UK was at was and the US wasn't, British sailors visiting the US came away with the opinion that the USN's ships were badly under-armed with AA weapons. The subsequent bolting on of AA cannons where-ever they'd fit on USN ships shows that the USN rapidly came to the same conclusion (of course the RN was doing the same, as their heavier AA armaments of the early war were still not heavy enough). Of course, for destroyers the RN's faulty assumption that their DP main guns only needed to be able to provide AA cover for the ships they were escorting meant that their self-defence AA armament wasn't nearly good enough. As for anti-surface, well the USN's destroyers were probably about the same or better in theory (depending on which classes you compare and aside from the tribals), but their dodgy torpedoes probably reversed that in practice.
What weight gain; Benson, 1620 tons Fletcher, 2050 tons Burke, 8300 tons to start, now 9500 tons Perry class frigate (not a real destroyer) 4200 tons, Constellation class frigate, (also not a real destroyer) 7300 tons. Freedom Class LCS, 3400 tons, too small to be useful. (And fancy drive system keeps breaking).
It's always told that destroyers and other surface combat ships have torpedo launchers. Did they really use them (must have been, otherwise the launchers wouldn't have been installed) and under what conditions? For me (in my imagination) these ships are more the artillery on the water, so fighting with guns. And no, I'm not asking for a friend🙂.
Yes destroyers used them, their primary purpose in fleet engagements was a high speed dash in, launch torpedoes at the enemy capital ships and then bugger off rapidly before someone landed a big shell on them. Using the Benson class as an example, three of them could put 24 torpedoes into the water effectively simultaneously.
Yeah, they used them. But US torpedoes were so bad, they rarely worked. However, they had one shining moment at Vella Gulf, 6/7 Aug 1943, when a US Desron sank three Japanese DD with torpedoes, firing by radar. One of the few successful torpedo attacks made by the USN, the other navies were much better at it (having better torpedoes). The Japanese, of course, had the "Long Lance" torpedo, launched by DD and cruisers, which pretty much damaged or sank every US Treaty cruiser in the Pacific over the course of the Solomons campaign.
The guns on a destroyer were only ever intended to be effective against small, mostly unarmored targets, like themselves. This is a symptom of what destroyer is short for, which is torpedo boat destroyer. Destroyers were originally developed from large gunboats designed to sink small speedboats with torpedoes on them before they could attack large ships and sink them, because torpedoes made it theoretically possible for a very small, cheap boat to sink a very large, expensive battleship. The destroers did killed that strategy off so effectively that torpedo boats went essentially extinct, so the job of carrying and using torpedoes was given to the destroyers (and some light cruisers) instead, because they weren't as easy to sink as torpedo boats and you could make them faster (thus more able to launch a strike against the enemy) due to their greater ratio of volume to surface area. As a result of that, the destroyers and their guns got bigger and bigger so they could shoot other destroyers to bits instead. Then, when submarines (underwater torpedo boats) became a concern, destroyers started carrying depth charges to kill those as well.
Keep up the great work!! looks like some person decided to imitate you with a crap channel and a Female Robo Reader Voice They say imitation is the best Flattery but still really? Thanks for these awesome videos!!
That type of ship....a single hit could easily sink it, no matter what type of hit it was. Ha. Now were talking about torepedos that didn't work? What difference would it make how many there were?
That's why at about the same time as the USN ordered the Bensons, the RN switched to destroyers with two boiler rooms back-to-back. More efficient, and they didn't expect destroyers to survive major hits and keep fighting anyway.
In an emergancy the most expensive thing you can do is bet everything on the wrong option. When in a hurry building two classes to the same specifications greatly increases your chances of getting a good class of ships.
I'm continually disappointed, sickened really, with the politicians of the 20s and 30s. They ought never to have tied the hands of our naval designers and architects with ridiculous treaty limitations on efficient and effective designs of our naval ships. They were also terribly shortsighted as to the very real potential threats that improving aircraft designs would likely exist in the near future. Many lives could have been spared with wisdom, foresight and a sense of personal responsibility to give our forces the best equipment that could be built. But politicians are often just simply self-serving bought and paid for elitists focused only on their own personal interests and corrupt gain. The war brought all of this truth to the surface. Politicians still tend toward corruption.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Can you tell us about Frank Friday Fletcher? The uncle of Frank Jack Fletcher and namesake of the Fletcher class destroyer.
Could you go into detail about the designation about corvettes, frigates, sloops and destroyers. What are the differences between them both design and their mission profiles.
With how little the Ottomans accomplished with the German BC would it have been better if it had gone to the Austrians instead?
Please excuse me if I'm missing something obvious, but why didn't destroyers have torpedo launchers built into the hull akin to submarines' tubes? Even if you didn't want to lose the deck mounted ones, wouldn't being able to carry four or maybe eight more that could be shot whilst presenting your narrowest profile have some value?
I see USS Benson was "sponsored" by Mrs. William S. Benson, the widow of Adm. Benson?
Is "sponsored" the same as "being launched by" - ie, Mrs Benson launched the ship named for her husband? (cracked the champagne to the bow etc).
My grandfather served aboard Hilary P. Jones DD 427. She spent most of the war in the Atlantic, escorting supply ships from Newfoundland and fending off U-Boats
I see the mistake he made. woosley is 437, not 427.
That was rough duty.
My grandfather served aboard a cruiser in WWII that did convoy escort across the North Atlantic for a few months before being reassigned to the Mediterranean. He always said that the weather in the North Atlantic was the worst part of the war.
@@christineshotton824 HPJ did the same. What ship was he on? Who knows? They might have worked together
@@Tom_The_Cat Who was Hilary P. Jones,, it's unusual to have a Navy ship named after a female so I'm guessing she was a civil war nurse or an abolitionist schoolteacher or something...
@@micnorton9487 Part of me wishes that was the case.
Hilary Pollard Jones Jr was a US Naval officer during the Spanish-American War and WW1. He retired as an Admiral in 1927, going on to serve as an advisor for the Geneva Disarmament Conference and the London Naval Treaty
His father actually served in the Union Army during the Civil War
My father served on a Gleaves class destroyer, the USS Woolsey, DD-437, during WWII in the Med from 1939 - 1945. He joined the Navy 2 weeks after his 17th birthday and was always proud of his service, as am I. Thank you for providing this video.
DD 437 sir ❤
@@chloehennessey6813 Thank you sir, corrected to DD-437
Thanks for sharing your Dad's service. Where did his ship base itself, for fuel, stores, shore leave and so on?
My grandfather served on dd-493 carmick in Korea.
@@hazchemel The Woolsey's home port was the Chelsea Naval base in Boston and is where the USS Constitution calls its home port as well. The ship remained moth balled there until 1970. Thanks for asking.
USS Laffey, dd-459...gold medal knife-fighter of the USN.
Gold Medal Sponge
She took a POLEAXING that would humble a BATTLESHIP and still kept on going on.
@@omicrontheta3894 And even those who weren't firing the main and secondary guns of the Laffey, they picked all the guns in the ship and fired with M1's, Tommy and from what I heard, even shotguns!!!
@@Yamato-tp2kf indeed. 😺😀
🤩
Now USS LAFFEY is a Museum Ship 🛳️.
@@omicrontheta3894 the second Laffy is a museum... this one sunk
Drunk sleepy bunny!
“World’s cutest little mainmast.” - Drach, 2023
My father was on the USS MacKenzie (DD-614) during the war. Mainly used as convoy escort but did sink a sub. At one point they went to help at Anzio. He told me lots of stories lol. I myself worked on the flight deck of the JFK and then went to a P-3c Squadron out of NAS Brunswick ME. VP-8. It was nice to see this show up this morning to remind me of my pap. Thank you.
Just think about how many krouts didn't get a chance to write letters like this..."thanks to him.
@@JTA1961 Just think about how many merchant mariners DID get a chance to write letters like this... thanks to him.
@@JTA1961 Not exactly sure how to take your comment so I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and say it was nice in some way. I would say millions wouldn't have died had those krouts stayed the fk at home instead of putting my father in a position where he would be used as a prop in a conversation where he would be denying anyone anything. *Salute*
@@Gyphon Beeing a landrat from germany, I was always fascinated with naval history and subs of course. And even though I can't tell luv from lee, I do know that respect amongst sailors, even in wartimes was a thing. So don't let some stupid (either way) RUclips comment ruin your day.
That beeing said, it's spelled Krauts as in 'Sauerkraut', preventing scurvy since 1776 (aproval stemp by Cook), you limeys :)
I served on the U.S. Cowell, DD547 in the mid 60’s … navigation officer. She was a very decorated WW2 Fletcher’ can that was the best over all destroyer considering armament, versatility , numbers produced and combat record. I remember her fondly.
I was a QM 3 serving aboard the John R. Craig DD 885 1967-1968. I always thought that Fletchers were beautiful ships, while the Gearings had been beautiful before FRAM.
My father served on USS Frankford (DD497). He never talked about his service and it was only after he was gone that I found out about DESRON 18 and its activities at Omaha Beach. I just tell my sons, "Your grandfather had a very busy morning."
Drach, gotta warm yet little warship heart to elicit so many “my father/uncle/mom served” remarks. Makes ME cry reading them.
when you take into consideration that 35k shp
was more installed power than the Queen Elizabeth class battleship had,
and was only 10k less than Nelson, it is quite the demonstration of the rule
that every knot increase in speed needs an exponential increase in power.
that is also a very interesting camo scheme at 02:12
sort of Hokusai-ish.
Man the benson class were an absolute awesome design and concept for a destroyer, I really enjoy playing my uss benson in world of warships legends 😊😊😊
This made me appreciate naval architects.
My dad was on the USS Murphy DD-603. He was wounded off the coast of French Morocco by the Vichy French shore batteries. The ship had green shamrocks painted on the stacks(funnels).
My grandfather served on USS Carmick DD-493 during the Korean war. I believe served on her after she was converted to a minesweeper DMS-33.
Love to hear more about the USS Rodman. My farther served in her for both D-Day and Okinawa. Built in Bath Maine the Rodman DD456 was converted to DMS21 before going to the Pacific. On 4/6/45 Her sister ship The USS Emmons was sunk shortly after she had taken wounded off the Rodman. The rodman was "swamped" but didn't sink and after some repairs returned the the US for refit. My farther ran the analog firing system for the 5 inch guns. On the morning of April 6th dad had had enough of trying to sleep while the ship was fighting and went to his post early to help out. Shortly after his sleeping compartment took a direct hit, starboard side just forward of the aft forward turret just below the deck, by a Kamikaze aircraft killing the men in the compartment. My brother and I attended a ship reunion in Norfolk VA, in 1993 I think it was and met several of dad's shipmates. Believe me, they were all hearos. Dad gave me a copy of "Last Stand of the Tin Can Hearos" saying this is what it was like.
"Benson-class destroyer, Laffey, awaiting your orders... Commander, these ears aren't real... you don't need to stare at them..."
@@bockscar916 Usamimi, usamimi, usamimi, usamimi
Ah I see ,a comrades here too
Sometimes the little guys are just as interesting as the big behemoth's, thanks to Drachinifel.
How about a video on what the best armament a destroyer should have had based on the action they saw in WW2?
My grandfather served aboard the lead ship of the class - USS Benson (DD-421) from ‘43 to ‘46. My gramps and the Benson were in lots of theaters in the war - convoys in the North Atlantic, Mediterranean supporting the landings in Sicily, Italy and Southern France, and eventually they headed for the Pacific. My grandfather was at the helm when they transited the Panama Canal. In the Pacific they were in Hawaii, Wake Island, Okinawa and did escort and patrol duty between the Philippines and Tokyo Bay. One hell of a journey.
I just bought some Benson class destroyers for Victory at Sea, and I always love to watch your overviews of ships that make up my US and IJN fleets! Thanks for doing so much research and making such a great ship history series!
Excellent video as always. You should cover the italian regina elena class battleships
Interesting. Never heard of the Benson class destroyer before. Pre-Fletcher class I'm guessing. You can see a lot of the Fletcher's design in this ship. Especially with it's superstructure.
Thanks Drachinifel
Fletcher is basically a Benson/Gleaves with a larger hull to accomodate all the weapons upgrades (increrasing top weight) and the additional crew that came with it. Other than that, they are quite similar. Gearing is a Fletcher on a widened hull, again for more displacement allowing for more top weight (mainly quad Bofors) to be installed.
If memory serves, Gearing also upgraded the main guns from single 5"/38 mounts to twins.
@@ottovonbismarck2443if anything, the Allen M. Sumner class is more closely related to the Gearing class. It was a sort of destroyer technology breakthrough like with the Fubukis' being the first 'modern destroyer' the Allen M. Sumner was the first 'modern destroyer' equivalent of the late 1940s
@@ottovonbismarck2443llen M Sumner DDs are are practically a Fletcher hull with a different superstructure and 6 5in38s. Gearings were Sumners hulls that were stretched for more fuel capacity
@@usssimshullnumberdd-4095 From Fletcher to A.M.Sumner was not the big change as it looks. is basically the same but slightly lengthened and widened hull for stability issues to compensate expected additional top weights. Same engines and turbines etc.
Superstructure re-work is "superficial cosmetics" in ship terms. The most important and most difficult things on a ship happen below the superstructure. For production continuity, major changes in that region were avoided at all costs, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered. Production numbers - on an already very good design which was the Fletcher ! - were more important than huge design changes.
It was optimized to get max. deck space for 40mm Bofors with two main gun positions available. A, B and Y guns are still in the same positions.
Sumner to Gearing is still basically the same hull - slightly lengthened and widened again.
My dad was on DD602 Meade when she was launched. Trained off the coast of Florida as a sonar sailor and headed to Guadalcanal for the sea battle against the Japanese navy, Iron Bottom Sound.
My 1st Ship as a young Seaman was the USS Radford DD-446, Pearl Harbor Hi. Spunky little Tin Can...😊
"Hiei, Kirishima, and Friends" sounds like the title to yet another battleship anime
I was actually at NARA looking through engineering drawings for this class a little over a month ago as part of a ship’s history project for the Laffey.
In the microfilm reels I found a set of 1937 dated contract plans for the Benson class that actually had the same torpedo arrangement that the Sims class had originally launched with, but otherwise almost the same as the as-commissioned design for Benson with a couple of idiosyncrasies such as a crows nest on the foremast and a different type of 5” director. I also found another unlabeled one with a wiring diagram/deck plan that suggests a superstructure more similar to the Mahan class, but with a breakwater in front of the #1 5” gun.
I’m still not entirely sure where the latter fits in. But I found it interesting that the Bureau of Construction and Repair actually considered that torpedo arraignment for the Benson class.
Your comment prompted a question I've long wanted to ask - when did the Navy do away with crow's nests?
@@kenkahre9262 honestly I’m not sure. I’d imagine they largely fell out of use in the interwar years, but I’m not sure. That might be a question for the Q&A. I really oughta schedule another NARA trip. Those drawings were fascinating. And I still got a little more than half of Laffey’s surviving deck logs to read through.
Would like to see all of the GUIDES in order in a playlist
Now I can't get this song out of my head:
"Benson, Arizona, blew warm wind through your hair.
My body flies the galaxy, my heart longs to there.
Benson, Arizona, the same stars in the sky.
But they seemed so much kinder, when we watched them, you and I."
- source, the movie, "Dark Star"
- author, John Carpenter
Really? Because what I kept thinking of was "BEEEEEEEENSOOOOOOON! BEEEEEEEEENSON!!!! JESUS CHRIST! BBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!"
I have been to Benson AZ many times. It's on the way to Toombstone.
"Shut up, Pinback."
The 3 most common unit chits on WW2 tabletop games(circa late '70's); Hurricanes-1940 Britain. Rifle Divisions- 1941 Russia. Benson Class DD's -1942 Solomons. ;-)
DD 602 USS Meade. I had a great uncle that served on that ship for a good chunk of the war.
Awesome. My Great Grandfather (who i grew up with) served on DD 608 "USS Gansevoort". Thank you
Great videos on the WW2 ships as usual. Thanks Drach. 🙂
Thanks for the info on my namesake destroyer. Not being that interested in US destroyers I hadn't been aware of them.
I served ex Benson (DD-14) after The Moon landing, great ship. she was replaced with tripod mast and AN/SPS-6B, SPS-10 & MK-25 Fire Control (analog based). More than 53 years ago....
“World’s cutest little mainmast.” - Drach, 2023. USS Laffey, dd-459...gold medal knife-fighter of the USN..
My favourite are the British trible class hmcs Haida and hms Cossack 🎉😊great gun boats
My Dad, was on the USS Lansdale, the Gunner on the number 2 mount when the Destroyer DD 426 was torpedo by a Heinkel He 111’s. Dad said they were silhouetted by the explosion of high explosives aboard SS Paul Hamilton which blew her out of the water with 580 souls lost. Before the Lansdale sank after being torpedoed they still were fighting an it is reported that they shot down three planes. The last of those planes flew away from the bow, Dad’s gun mount…He tracked it an fired. He was sure they hit that plane and that was the last plane accredited to the Lansdale that night before she sank. Dad was in the water for about 6 hours as he held up another sailor with his life-vest the two of them shared it and they both were picked up by the destroyer escort Menges. Two German pilots that they had downed also were picked up by the Menges but the pilots were hidden by the officers aboard Menges in fear the surviving sailors would try to kill them.
Dad said as the Menges would make a sweep picking up sailors, always moving at a reduced speed, the men in the water praised the ship, but as it would pass by an turn around to make another pass…the sailors in the water would curse at Menges and “you never heard such language in your life,” he told me laughing. Dad never saw the sailor he held up again, and thought he had passed away that night from hypothermia. In the 90s they had several ship reunions and the sailor that he held up was there and ran over to Dad and gave him a big hug. Thank you for sharing for all the sailors that served on Benson class destroyers.
Wow. Great history!
Thank you, I loved Dad telling me about his time in the service.
That is awesome!
First time I've heard of the USS Benson was playing Wolfpack on the Amiga, loved it!
I thought I'd include a bit about the destroyer and tactics used in my history G.C.S.E (though really what I included was 95% irrelevant, I couldn't remember anything else that was more pertinent.....)
I got an E.
This is interesting, also I have a suggestion for a ship from the Royal Thai navy, the Thonburi class, HTMS Sri Ayudhya.
How about a video on the Landing Ship, Tank? My grandfather served on one in the Pacific for a good portion of his Navy career (also serving as an Armed Guard in the Mediterranean for a while).
Yes, I worked aboard the now converted to car ferry, Cape Henlopin. LST 510 I've always wondered about the various rolls they filled during the war.
I rode the ex- USS Cape Henlopen when she was the cross sound ferry out of New London, also a Party Barge on special occasions. 77-84,…..
Grandad served from ‘42 until war’s end aboard USS Boyle DD-600
Definitely a move in the right direction
She is a cute little destroyer! Probably tuff in heavy seas? 🇺🇲👍
Another excellent video.
It’s time for the history and drama of HMS Canopus please. Tanks.
You should make video about DD-459, fighting Hiei like a boss
My Dad was on DMS-38/DD-627 USS Thompson
The bunnygirl ships.
Would like to know about the Battleship Arkansas and any war time activity recorded.
5:33 This wasn't Admiral "Tug" Benson was it?
Excellent video, as always. Thank you.
Thanks Dracj
37 knots- enabling water skiing by the captain?
All US warships that i am familiar with spread out the power plant a lot, for exactly the reasons you stated. Damage control is a thing, and keeping your machinery spaces spread out means that any single failure won't kill the ship.
Nuclear powered ships have the nuclear plants isolated and separated, and the machinery spaces isolated and separated as well. So you could theoretically power one engine room from it's opposing reactor, supposing that you took a hit or multiple hits that knocked out systems for both propulsion systems. Same for the electrical system.
And don't get me started on the other redundancies designed in. For example a modern aircraft carrier can be steered by at least 3 different methods. Including mechanical winches (powered by the crew). Slow, but you could theoretically steer the ship that way.
Have you ever considered a study of the Knox class destroyer escort of the late sixties and seventies?
Please review the USS Chicago-CA/CL-29.
Drach! a guide for La Galissoniere is already on the list?
!!! 👍
Great job thank you
5:43 can#t help but hearing the opening verse of "Wolfpack" by Sabaton
RIP admiral Benson. Died tragically when he slipped on a crab and fell down some steps.
Worst case of crabs a sailor ever had.
Yo, Drachinifel, you think you can put some of these videos together for easier reference?
Like put all of the British Cruisers you've covered so far into a joint video or more? The same for all the others. That way, it would be easier to reference them later. Mostly easier.
semper fi semper fortis
Benson: "Get back to work or you're fired!"
👍Thank you for video.
Do a video on the USS Liberty!
Mostly Semite Media (MSM) would not like that.
In the gotcha game azur lane the benson class destroyers are all bunny themed. 😄❤🐰
didn't realize how similar Benson/Gleaves were to Fletcher, at least armament wise -- kind of like baby Fletchers then? Was the real difference that Fletcher had additional displacement and therefore space for upgrades and new systems while Benson didn't? Otherwise, why is Fletcher considered one of the best DD designs of all time while Benson isn't really talked about and just sorta gets lumped in with all the other USN interwar DDs?
Yeah, basically. I'd say that the problem with the Benson class's reputation is that they were so small, the Navy was constantly fooling around with their armament, as Drach points out. One can never say just which Benson a given ship is. Whereas the Fletchers were standardized, and about the only armament change they saw was additional AA.
Also, most of the Fletchers served in the Pacific, which was way more glamorous than the convoy duty or service in the Med that occupied most of the Bensons. Only a couple of Desrons worth of Bensons saw service in the Pacific. The skipper of one of them, Grayson, Frederick Bell, wrote a book about the ship called "Condition Red" which is still in print (abridged, alas).
Or maybe it was that the Fletchers were big enough to keep that 5th-5" gun throughout the war.
IMOHO I think the Bensons were nice looking destroyers. They're essentially what comes to mid when thinking of destroyers at the beginning of WWII.
They are about the same size as the British wartime emergency destroyers, and like them the small size meant upgrades on one area meant losing capability in another.
@@spikespa5208 The Bensons and the Goldplaters, yeah. British DDs were similar.
Ah the Benson is devastating in WoWS:Blitz
Aww yeah my girl laffey 1. Nothing like a destroyer that embodied the "BRING US CLOSER I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD" mentality, knife fighting a battleship to the end. US DD's were really crewed by absolute barking lunatics.
It's a prerequisite for the job. Live fast and die young.
Yes sir. The sub and destroyer crews were certifiable.
@@stargazer5784 I've thought about this. Sub-crazy and destroyer-crazy are slightly different, I think. First of all, you have to be crazy just to agree to go into a steel cigar, shut the hatches, and dive into the ocean, so submariners start off crazy. But their craziness has to be tempered with calculation, because it takes time and thought to set up an approach on a convoy and position yourself to get a good solution, and then even more craziness to endure 24-hour depth charge barrages. So there's a certain coldness to their craziness.
Whereas in DDs, the craziness is more spontaneous, more "sieze the moment." There is no thought for survival, just for getting in and inflicting the most damage as fast as possible. It's a different order of crazy. Halsey was a destroyer man. Nimitz was a submariner.
And let's not forget aviators, especially fighter jocks.
As opposed to the Polish DDs in Royal Navy service, which were crewed by careful, sober men who would never do anything even half as insane.
>cough< ORP Piorun G65 >cough
got nothing on the Glowworm boys ...
IJN Yubari is next :P
I suppose at some point someone will have shouted "Benson,, Benson.. Ohh Jesus Christ,,, BENSON!!!" (Dated joke and reference, i know) when seeing this class/ship..
I kept waiting for Drach to relay a story of one of these, charging right an entire formation of Japanese ships and the admiral screaming at them to come back
In the opening, one of the battleships fire and a bunch of white stuff goes flying like confetti. What is that?🤔
Uss duncan dd-445
Great show your straight forward approach and simple yet informative dialogue is refreshing 🎉...
Not a single Admiral Benson joke? Or Drach never watched Hot Shots...that would make me sad
Fletcher: "Daddy?"
😁
Very interesting. I've formed an opinion that RN destroyers went into WW2 with better AA capability than the USN's. The American destroyers had the edge in ASUW. ASW? About the same.
Makes sense. The RN knew it would likely be operating frequently within range of land-based air power.
USN destroyers had little emphasis on ASW, as that wasn't supposed to be their job.
In the 1939-19431 period where the UK was at was and the US wasn't, British sailors visiting the US came away with the opinion that the USN's ships were badly under-armed with AA weapons. The subsequent bolting on of AA cannons where-ever they'd fit on USN ships shows that the USN rapidly came to the same conclusion (of course the RN was doing the same, as their heavier AA armaments of the early war were still not heavy enough). Of course, for destroyers the RN's faulty assumption that their DP main guns only needed to be able to provide AA cover for the ships they were escorting meant that their self-defence AA armament wasn't nearly good enough.
As for anti-surface, well the USN's destroyers were probably about the same or better in theory (depending on which classes you compare and aside from the tribals), but their dodgy torpedoes probably reversed that in practice.
Just watched a fact doc. on YT; that stated the Benson was sunk in the battle off/of Sammar.
Benson transferred to Nationalist China in 1954.
There is a naval version of the SIMs?
The USS Bensonmum was a classy ship.
An elegant weapon for a more civilized age.
🐉Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club Member 1968-69🐉
👍
What weight gain;
Benson, 1620 tons
Fletcher, 2050 tons
Burke, 8300 tons to start, now 9500 tons
Perry class frigate (not a real destroyer) 4200 tons,
Constellation class frigate, (also not a real destroyer) 7300 tons.
Freedom Class LCS, 3400 tons, too small to be useful. (And fancy drive system keeps breaking).
Are you fat-shaming these ships?! How dare you!
Burke is barely treaty-compliant…FOR A HEAVY CRUISER!
It's always told that destroyers and other surface combat ships have torpedo launchers. Did they really use them (must have been, otherwise the launchers wouldn't have been installed) and under what conditions? For me (in my imagination) these ships are more the artillery on the water, so fighting with guns.
And no, I'm not asking for a friend🙂.
Yes destroyers used them, their primary purpose in fleet engagements was a high speed dash in, launch torpedoes at the enemy capital ships and then bugger off rapidly before someone landed a big shell on them. Using the Benson class as an example, three of them could put 24 torpedoes into the water effectively simultaneously.
How you gonna kill a cruiser or battleship with your 5 inch?
See Captain Vian v Bismarck...
Yeah, they used them. But US torpedoes were so bad, they rarely worked.
However, they had one shining moment at Vella Gulf, 6/7 Aug 1943, when a US Desron sank three Japanese DD with torpedoes, firing by radar. One of the few successful torpedo attacks made by the USN, the other navies were much better at it (having better torpedoes).
The Japanese, of course, had the "Long Lance" torpedo, launched by DD and cruisers, which pretty much damaged or sank every US Treaty cruiser in the Pacific over the course of the Solomons campaign.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 And since they would be Mark 15s, none of them would hit.
The guns on a destroyer were only ever intended to be effective against small, mostly unarmored targets, like themselves. This is a symptom of what destroyer is short for, which is torpedo boat destroyer. Destroyers were originally developed from large gunboats designed to sink small speedboats with torpedoes on them before they could attack large ships and sink them, because torpedoes made it theoretically possible for a very small, cheap boat to sink a very large, expensive battleship. The destroers did killed that strategy off so effectively that torpedo boats went essentially extinct, so the job of carrying and using torpedoes was given to the destroyers (and some light cruisers) instead, because they weren't as easy to sink as torpedo boats and you could make them faster (thus more able to launch a strike against the enemy) due to their greater ratio of volume to surface area. As a result of that, the destroyers and their guns got bigger and bigger so they could shoot other destroyers to bits instead. Then, when submarines (underwater torpedo boats) became a concern, destroyers started carrying depth charges to kill those as well.
“Admiral Benson!”
“Really? That’s my name too!”
Well done! I can't believe someone beat me to it.😊
Yeah. 1600 tons was still not good enough.
Close(r), but no cigar
Solid content
Keep up the great work!! looks like some person decided to imitate you with a crap channel and a Female Robo Reader Voice They say imitation is the best Flattery but still really? Thanks for these awesome videos!!
That type of ship....a single hit could easily sink it, no matter what type of hit it was. Ha.
Now were talking about torepedos that didn't work? What difference would it make how many there were?
That's why at about the same time as the USN ordered the Bensons, the RN switched to destroyers with two boiler rooms back-to-back. More efficient, and they didn't expect destroyers to survive major hits and keep fighting anyway.
After the mods, the torps worked fine. Just ask the Yamato ...
Your timing is IMPECCABLE
I was working on this ship in World of Warships Legends and needed a great guide for it.
Great work.
Feeding the algorithm
I never clicked so fast before.
The advertisement lasted longer the the video’… lol
May-Han class? Is that a new class or something?
Mahan* :)
Now do the USS Liberty 🗽
Mostly Semite Media (MSM) is not in favor of that type of thing.
The Benson had tasty coscouse.
Jai himnd
In an emergancy the most expensive thing you can do is bet everything on the wrong option.
When in a hurry building two classes to the same specifications greatly increases your chances of getting a good class of ships.
Your logic has no head or tail...
@@derrickstorm6976
That is the point.
110th, 8 July 2023
I'm continually disappointed, sickened really, with the politicians of the 20s and 30s. They ought never to have tied the hands of our naval designers and architects with ridiculous treaty limitations on efficient and effective designs of our naval ships. They were also terribly shortsighted as to the very real potential threats that improving aircraft designs would likely exist in the near future. Many lives could have been spared with wisdom, foresight and a sense of personal responsibility to give our forces the best equipment that could be built. But politicians are often just simply self-serving bought and paid for elitists focused only on their own personal interests and corrupt gain. The war brought all of this truth to the surface. Politicians still tend toward corruption.