I've never read the books but I know how much they messed up his character in ahsoka which is such a shame because Its such a dissapointment from the creators as the entire show had so much potential
The whole show is one big insult for everyone who watched Rebels. Let alone people who has read the books. It was horrendous. And im truly truly not on the "Lets hate modern star wars and modern pokemon"- Bandwagon .... Andor was phenomenal. TCW was the best thing star wars ever made and and Rebels is pretty close up there too. But jeez... did they ruin Thrawn. Thrawn was a highly competent, non-aggressive intellectual in Rebels. A warrior trough and trough with a big sense of honor. Dont get me wrong... Thrawn always was one of the "Bad guys". But it was very easy to sympathize with him... or better said... to respect him. The Thrawn in the Ahsoka-Show is an aggressive, blood-thirsty incompetent clown who is sacrificing his people left and right and does one dumb move after another. I truly hate how some new star wars shows MUST picture the empire as incompetent clowns all the time. If you watch Ahsoka, Kenobi or even Mando... you truly wonder how the empire ever was able to control a galaxy. You know who pictured them correctly? Andor! The empire was a highly competent, highly intellegent thread to the galaxy.... even just ties or ISB-Agents are shown as an enormous danger there. Thats what the empire is. Not some clowny stormtrooper who charge into melee with a jedi for no reason (lel Kenobi). Andor is peak writing. Ahsoka, Kenobi and Mando are an insult.
He didn't get his chance to do anything significant in Ahsoka because his primary goal was escape while minimizing resource loss. He knew better than to face these jedi head on especially Ahsoka. Plus every time he sent troops after Ezra they died so he stopped sending scouting parties. Ezra made a vest out of their dog tags. Caution and stalling tactics were the best option since they weren't killed on his first try when they were located. He disabled their ship with minimal ship losses and only lost the one squad that bought his ship time to get away (He was even smart enough to recall the first squad when Ahsoka showed up and reunited with Ezra and Sabine). He knew they probably would have killed everyone on board if all three made it. And he was okay with sending an entire squad because it's three jedi. One of them an unkillable badass that survived three eras. He knew not to fuck around and sent just enough to hold them off since they can also become zombies with nightsister magic. The reason he took so long is because that cargo he wanted must be vitally important for his bigger plans when he returns to the galaxy. Of course he's going to be different from the best version of the character but that isn't a bad thing. He literally just made the transition from animation to live action. Give him the one thing he needs most of all. Time. Also Thrawn is in a different state of mind right now. He's been stranded there for over a decade with nothing but lemmings to talk too. And he doesn't mind sacrificing people when it's needed because he needs to return to the known galaxy at all costs and also hold off three jedi that are coming for his head. I wouldn't blame him for being a little paranoid about the jedi as well since every time he's faced them they have summoned monsterous freaks of nature that destroyed everything.
Thank you for the detailed comment on the whole I agree with you. The writing in Star Wars has not been the best. Andor had some excellent writing, so it portrayed the empire as a real threat.
you meant boba, not mando. unless you watched s3 then indeed. Andor was totally fine and true to Star Wars yes. But meh... let's say that the writer missed some key principles of storytelling on that one. It's like if it was purposeless and went nowhere. It's just not like that, that you tell a story usually. You can't just relay events and call that a good story. They could totally make another one in the same manner all around, except if they do, they should correct how the story is communicated to the audience. After watching this, people were asking me about it and I just answered: "yeaaaahhh... well. It was totally Star Wars. This really IS true Star Wars. ...but yeah. That's the only thing I have to say."
I loved him. And didn’t dislike him in Ahsoka as much as everyone else. But get Timothy Zahn in the team, he needs to be telling everyone what Thrawns gonna do
@@starwarsgrandmoff hey loved the video dude. Sorry you didn’t enjoy him. I understand where people are coming from, he wasn’t as Sherlock Holmes as I wanted him to be. But he’s also in a situation we haven’t seen before so I can see why he’s a bit off. Hopes are high for the future of his character
Thanks appreciate the support, hope you stick around 👍 I understand what you mean but there is no evidence Thrawn is out of his element in the show. And same I hope it improves in the future.
@@starwarsgrandmoff definitely dude. Earned yourself a sub just from being so awesome about different opinions. While I really still enjoyed him he definitely wasn’t on heir to the empire levels.
He didn't get his chance to do anything significant in Ahsoka because his primary goal was escape while minimizing resource loss. He knew better than to face these jedi head on especially Ahsoka. Plus every time he sent troops after Ezra they died so he stopped sending scouting parties. Ezra made a vest out of their dog tags. Caution and stalling tactics were the best option. He disabled their ship with minimal ship losses and only lost the one squad that bought his ship time to get away. He knew they probably would have killed everyone on board if all three made it. And he was okay with sending an entire squad is because it's three jedi. One of them an unkillable badass that survived three eras. He knew not to fuck around and sent just enough to hold them off since they can also become zombies with nightsister magic. The reason he took so long is because that cargo he wanted must be vitally important for his bigger plans when he returns to the galaxy. Of course he's going to be different from the best version of the character but that isn't a bad thing. He literally just made the transition from animation to live action. Give him the one thing he needs most of all. Time. Also Thrawn is in a different state of mind right now. He's been stranded there for over a decade with nothing but lemmings to talk too. And he doesn't mind sacrificing people when it's needed because he needs to return to the known galaxy at all costs and also hold off three jedi that are coming for his head. I wouldn't blame him for being a little paranoid about the jedi as well since every time he's faced them they have summoned monsterous freaks of nature that destroyed everything.
Thank you for the detailed comment! I understand what you are saying, you make some interesting points. I think it is more the writing that bugs me as it makes thing not make sense. Excellent point with the resources as they did that right as Thrawn would be efficient with his resources. But on that point they had a lack of resources but they still have thousands if not millions of space mines 🤣
Ezra avoided the Star Destroyer until Ahsoka and Sabine arrived, and he had no idea that Sabine was there. I don't know how Thrawn never managed to kill Ezra either. Yeah, he had a vest of dog tags, but not only is he woefully unarmed compared to Thrawn, Thrawn is supposed to have a superior tactical mind. Someone with a superior tactical mind should have been packed and ready to go. The night sisters are the ones sending out the message to Morgan, he knew someone was coming to save him, so why not prepare? Why did he let Sabine live? Especially since he failed to kill Ezra several times as you said, and he has a prisoner. Nothing changes, and he puts himself at a further disadvantage by allowing them to regroup. So why not kill her then and there? He has no obligation besides honor to follow through with Skoll's promise. Skoll, who was ordered to kill both Sabine and Ezra anyway, so again, why not kill her there? The night sisters can track force users, when they're using the force. Ezra says the force is his ally. So he's been using the force to keep himself trained. Which means he is trackable and can send Skoll and Hati directly to Ezra's location and finish him off. The justifications for Thrawn being completely ineffective don't work. ESPECIALLY when your heroes are in no rush to stop him. What do they do? Well, Sabine neglects to tell Ezra how and why she got there, and he doesn't push for it. The turtle people are completely ineffectual in combat, so why not go their separate ways. There are in NO RUSH until the Tie Fighters somehow manage to damage Ahsoka's ship enough to slow them down from a turtle crawl to a snail's pace. How is Thrawn anything but ineffectual and a non-threat when our heroes treat him as such? The only state of mind change of his is that he lost a whole bunch of brain cells in the last 10 years. He acts the same, just a stupid version of him.
Honestly his portrayal in Rebels was just okay and it barely passed the test for me. We're always told how terrifying and intelligent Thrawn is, but we're barely shown it. Even when he talks about how his failings are actually successes, it rings out hallow and with little to back it up in the end. Maybe it's because everyone is afraid to give their villains some teeth, but I dunno.
Honestly, it’s just bad writing. And you hit the nail on the head with hallow. I agree totally! Thanks for the thoughtful comment, hope to see you around here more 👍
@@starwarsgrandmoff Pretty much. An example i can give is the character of General Greivous. In legends material and the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon Greivous was shown to be a terrifying character, a powerful warrior with a sharp mind. He overpowered several Jedi (some of which were council members) and was only stopped by the timely arrival of arc troopers and their gunship. He was a monster and you genuinely felt dread when he approached the heroes of the story. Especially since you could hear his footsteps. In the CGI Clone Wars cartoon, he's still fairly intimidating, but more often than not he's played off as kind of a joke. This is also due to a rewriting of his story from a warrior who was cruely betrayed by Count Dooku and turned into a cyborg warrior for Sidious's experiments to make a cybernetic force-sensitive warrior which would culminate in Darth Vader. In the new story he simply wanted to be more powerful and to defeat the Jedi. I still enjoyed his presence in the show since there were times when he was shown to be skilled and could go head-to-head with Obi-Wan, but not quite to the horror movie scale he was in the 2003 cartoon. But even in 2003 he wasn't all powerful. Whenever he went against a Jedi that used the Force against him, he had to run or regroup before engaging again.
Thanks for the feedback, I might honestly do I whole video on how to rewrite Thrawn/ changes that would have made him better. Also in my previous video I talk about what I would like to see from live action Thrawn and the things to avoid.
I think Thrawn was disappointing in most aspects however I feel like Ahsoka just running in would actually be the last thing to think about because of how blatant it is (however yeah the doors should be closed) Hopefully season two will be better because theoretically he has more recourses
@tafmc2406 Yeah maybe, it’s all to do with who is writing it honestly. In Rebels there were multiple writers in Ahsoka it was only Dave so I hope for season 2 they colab more.
Problem: show Thrawn's a real threat if he was to return Solution: in ten years he's become a God to the Perideans, turning the wasteland tribes into cargo cults worshipping him & the Chimera; he can scale this to the galactic scale with the imperial remnant (which as shown in Mando is only simulating factional infighting); the war band he summons screens the perimeter of the Temple Complex while they load (since they're ripping of LOTR and this is literally Mount Doom) Filoni's dialogue, direction, and editing/framing choices are amateur on a level I haven't seen since D&D on _Game of Thrones._ The casting and production values are otherwise adequate. _Ahsoka_ was Pyramid Scheme exposition with drop shipped non-payoffs in that cliff hanger ending for all plot threads; oh great, they swapped galaxies _status quo ante._ The Thrawn guy is fine, Filoni just ought've learned _"faster and more intensity"_ by now from George. Beer gut's passable for his age, but really ought've been shot & edited around.
How does the New Republic even work? Why should the Chancellor hold a vote in the Senate to allow the general (!) to take a squadron if only one senator can approve this mission? Huyang throughout the series: gives logical and rational arguments for why Ahsoka's actions are idiotic. Ahsoka: no. Do as I say, I have plot armor and plot luck. Huyang: Okay. Minefield. Do you have any idea how many mines it takes to mine SPACE? And how long will it take? And why weren't any whales harmed by them? Naturally, flying straight through the wreckage, you won’t damage even the antenna on your boat... Sabin, you still haven’t told Ezra the situation, even though you don’t have time? What a stupid cow you are... How did Beilan and Shin negotiate with the red riders, who obviously do not know their language and who caught them over the corpses of their comrades? Naturally, Ahsoka and Sabine can connect mentally, despite the fact that Sabine is insensitive to the Force... and Ezra is sitting next to her, but Ahsoka does not feel him... Witches can not only sense Ahsoka, but also determine her position on the map with an accuracy of up to a meter? But they couldn't find Ezra for 10 years? Thrawn, if you don't care whether you defeat your enemies or not because you'll get off the planet, why don't you just shoot and bomb them from the air instead of sending a useless landing party? Actually, you don’t have many soldiers left, and you still have to fight the Republic... Ezra. You're a fucking Jedi. Take your fucking lightsaber and fight Shin! Sabin doesn't even use it! Ezra is so strong that he can forcefully stop Shin's blows, but Shin can knock him back and knock him out? The Ninja Turtles invented flying armored personnel carriers, but they shoot with fucking slingshots? By armored riders? How about just running them over? Ahsoka, why did you jump off to fight Baylan if your goal is to help Ezra and Ahsoka and he doesn’t threaten them? And your plan was to let Huyang burn you with flashes? Naturally, Ahsoka can simply drive into the frame through a crowd of stormtroopers, they can’t do anything at all... How about disarming and tying up Shin so you have a hostage and an extra lightsaber? No? In short, I've had enough. The series is shit, which will be licked because they showed us a hologram of Anakin and he said “Ventress.” Filoni is an arrogant hack, no better than Abrams or Johnson. Thanks everyone for reading.
after he got defeated by plot armor, he achieved the ability to control plot from ezra, hence why he didn't need to kill him and let him live. There, i fixed canon thrawn
Yep. Completely off from the real character. The first thing that bugged me as soon as I saw him was his shape and posture, his arms and hands movements, the way the expression of his eyes, eyelids and eyebrows are not right. And the storytelling that's so trash indeed. It's just not Thrawn, and this character was one that was absolutely required to be perfect. I don't blame Filoni, I blame Disney and the thing that's at the head of Lucasfilms right now. The voice actor is very good. Just the voice acting. Not the physical performance, not even his text.
Thanks for the detailed comment, make sure to stick about it you like discussing this stuff 👍 Posture yes I agree. It is unfortunately 100% Dave’s fault he is the lead and I believe mainly sole writer of Ahsoka. And honestly that for me is where the problem lie. Dave is a big picture guy but not a solo writer.
@@starwarsgrandmoff Yeah indeed, if he "does everything", it's a problem. A scenario should be written by a real writer. I think he should only be directing if he is to be director. Someone has to stay detatched from the work that's being done to have an external eye on it and manage everything better. With a good consultant at his side at that. Like a real dedicated fan who knows the business or Lucas himself, like for The Mandalorian before s3.
@Bene_Singularis agreed anything with colab storytelling normally ends up better. Thanks for your comments and insights, hope to see you around here more 👍
Filoni wrote every single damn episode. Why give him a pass? The man's always been very bad with the EU, and it's time people stopped making excuses for him.
@@saberiandream316 Blame his boss KK. Not him. He does wonderful work when he's allowed to do what whould be done, like Lucas and even Hamill would want it. Blame the executives of Disney like KK. She's doing evil and everyone knows it. Filoni has his hands tied, you know how this is. If only his bosses were real Star Wars fans. But they only care for their woke political agenda.
Good question. In short like Sherlock Holmes from the BBC series. I would get Timothy Zahn to be a major part of the writing team as he has repeatedly shown he knows how to write Thrawn. Hope that answers your question 👍
@CloneTrooper-yz2ov with Thrawn it is all about pay off at the end but out smarting your opponent. By studying your enemy. If you have not read or listen to the first book I would recommend it. It will give you a better understanding of what good writing with Thrawn could be. To be clear I am not a professional writer but if Disney hired and consulted with the right people this wouldn’t be an issue and that’s the change they needed to make.
@@starwarsgrandmoff I get that. I also currently reading the book on the laus (Irish train) to college. I would disagree that anakin unpredictable, has always makes decisions that are dangerous or bold. Obi wan is unpredictable, has he might go by the book one second or drop and kick it into the enemies face.
He wasn't wrong, he knew they are unpredictable, and instead of just forming one strategy, he basically corralled them to take a direct approach while creating several barriers to prevent them from making it on time. Thrawn achieved his goal and it's not last minute, it strategic, and I do not understand anyone who thinks Thrawn was being dumb. he had all this planned, he just waited to see if the other plans worked before executing the next. he never panicked, he never was concerned, he clearly knew that, with his experience with Ezra, to never underestimate them, and instead of throwing everything at them at once, he made strategic moves as they progressed. Watch it again.
I think what you're missing is that he is far more intelligent then what they portrayed. If they had portrayed him as competently as he is in both canon and legends he would prove to be far more adversarial.
Yeah I think they got Thrawn a lot closer than anyone else. Hera and Sabine were unrecognizable and Ahsoka herself wasn't much better. Ezra and Thrawn were the closest to acting like how we've seen them before. It's still badly written, but the spirit was there. It made sense for Thrawn to not care at all if they live or die since leaving them in that galaxy would basically be a death sentence anyway. It made sense for Ezra to let Sabine keep his lightsaber so he could pick up an E-11. Why he didn't steal Shin's lightsaber or why they didn't capture her? That was pretty dumb. I hated the natives too. Say what you will about Ewoks, at least they knew where they stood in the food chain and did not mess around when it came to building weapons.
Thanks for your detail comment. This is a safe space to discuss Star Wars and while I don’t agree with you I appreciate the comment as you obviously feel passionate about it. And for the record I have watched it 3 times. Have you read or listened to the books at all I would recommend it, then compare them and let me know what you think 👍
Nah, Thrawn was pretty stupid because he failed to utilize any of his resources even remotely intelligently. Let his opponents regroup, and the writers recognized this because they let Sabine, Ezra, and Ahsoka chill on a slow-moving ship to escort turtle people merchandise until their ship is temporarily decommissioned. Ahsoka, Ezra, and Sabine basically treated it like a vacation because, as you said, once all three arrive on the ship, it's over for Thrawn. I'm failing to understand how people think him remotely intelligent. If he's so worried and paranoid about Jedi. When the night sisters out Sabine as a Jedi. Kill her. Ezra isn't going to take a whole star Destroyer and ship with night sisters by himself. What is Ahsoka going to do? She survived 3 eras of Star Wars because Filoni doesn't want his OC to die. Literally used time travel to save her, but even then, she's not a one man army. No Jedi can take a whole Starship by themselves. Luke only managed this in Mando S2 because the ship was already cleared out by Mando and friends. How Ezra survived the trip between the 2 galaxies when the night sisters can sense force users is beyond me as well. The villains are clearly written as morons.
@@HeavyMetalJesus02 Yeah this, how can Sabine not inform Ezra and Ahsoka that if they want to leave they had better hurry! Or didn't Ahsoka tell them that the whales she arrived with where gone?
Yes you're being way too hard. You don't take into consideration that Thrawn is out of his element being in a different galaxy. He never expected ahsoka to show up. She came in a freaking whale! The only thing he needs to do is get away with his cargo. And that's exactly what he does. Thrawn in the books lost several battles himself. Because people did unexpected things. Han and Lando used the mining ships to deadhead the fleet Thrawn was trying to steal. Then Han, Luke and Lando along with their strike team used a dead katana fleet to fire on his fleet. And at the very end he completely underestimated his bodyguard allowing him to be betrayed and murdered in the midst of the battle. In Rebels Thrawn was smarter and had more wins. That's why thrawns author says that Dave Filoni understands the character more than anyone else. You're not taking any of these things into consideration.
Thanks for the detailed comment, I can see you are passionate about this. There is no evidence that Thrawn is out of his element. He appears to be in ‘control’ the entire time. The books I am referring to in the video are the canon book series. I am taking these things into consideration but you need to remember that the author said these things before the series was out and because he can’t bad mouth other writers like Dave or he would never get a job again.
2:10 Barely gets away? What were three people gonna do in a ship? Pull him over? They weren’t gonna damage the hyperdrive ring, they weren’t gonna sabotage from the inside as that would take too long and they’d already be back in the normal galaxy. 2:42 As for Ahsoka “walking” Thrawn has already the cargo he needed loaded up. The last goal was to leave Ahsoka and company stranded so they wouldn’t have the CHANCE to sabotage his chances of escape, destroying the cargo OR returning with him to warn the New Republic. 3:11 Not everyone’s weaknesses can be exploited easily. Sometimes it takes build up (see Thrawn’s collecting of evidence for Atollon in S3) or takes certain requirements to meet (see Anakin having his love ones in danger to be emotionally vulnerable). 3:24 Because she was trained by Anakin and likely seen she was only a Padawan for 3 short years under him as well as her accomplishments outside of his tutelage meant that she was all over the place in terms of strategy as we see in Rebels she is far more careful than her younger self. This time around, she started recklessly like her master (which she hadn’t done in years) and pursued that plan. She could have done a number of things differently. She could have tried sneaking across the field without the animals. She could have tried scaling the outside of the tower of the gun’s sights. Ahsoka simply chose the direct route and Thrawn observed the opening maneuver and reacted accordingly. 4:00 While true, it could’ve been equally possible Thrawn wanted to keep his troops more mobile and plan ambushes. Moving on. 4.35 If the man who wrote the man up himself says Dave understands (and helped to writer him for Ahsoka) then yes he understands. 5:07 What’s predictable about being reckless? The very context of recklessness is being unpredictable. It’s when she stops charging ahead and does something else he’d be forced to adapt to. Plus knowing what your opponent is gonna do is not the same how they execute it. They could be methodical in dispatching troops. They could be going at it as if their lives depended on it and went completely Rambo hack and slash. Thrawn already had the resurrected troopers thing planned out. He was just waiting on timing. 5:20 It’s hard to see patterns when you just met your opponent and you don’t see her don’t see her operate in person or seen her only once. No matter how detailed his dossier is on her. In the end, Thrawn still had a comfortable victory even if Ezra snuck aboard and left 2 powerful Force users stranded in tow with 3 nightsisters aboard his ship.
Wow! Thanks for the detailed comment. I appreciate the time and energy you put into this. Maybe I didn’t explain these points well enough. 1. Barely gets away. Thrawn repeated said they have lost their time and it is impossible for them to get to the ship. In comparison they did get frighteningly close and Erza even got on the ship when it was meant to be impossible. 2. Agreed, which he failed in as Erza got back and did just that. 3. Agree, sometimes it can take time with Thrawn to build up a profile on a group organization like the rebels. But here we are talking about one person. And what did his research show that she is unpredictable, that’s it and she wasn’t even that - making his only prediction on Ahsoka false. 4. I think we can make reasoning for anything. As said above he said one thing and it was incorrect. 5. Quite possible. 6. He did, before the show came out. Plus, it is in his best interest to do so. As you don’t slam fellow writers/ colleagues or you won’t get another writing job with them. 7. To be clear Thrawn says Ahsoka is unpredictable and she is not. Not because Ahsoka isn’t but because the writing is so simple they have to do the most obvious thing. And my point is Thrawn can predict and execute on plans that is his whole thing the core to the character. Look at him in rebels or if you haven’t read/listen to the first book or comic. He makes elaborate plans and execute them flawlessly that is the whole character of Thrawn. 8. Agreed and for a normal person it’s impossible to make conclusions. But Thrawn is supposed to be well informed which means doing more research than just her master and nothing else. Literally nothing else. In Rebels Thrawn says to defeat an enemy you must know them study them. 9. Yes he won but it’s hard not to see that the plot wanted this to happen, he didn’t win off his own merit and that’s the problem. I could have done a whole video replying to you 🤣 Thanks again for the comment, hope you are having a great day 👍
You need to give them time mate, he’s not gonna be some OG gangster after 10 years in exile but he executed his plans near too the letter in ahsoka give it time my guy it’ll get better
I will give it time but Thrawn isn’t a new character and in his exile he didn’t lose his abilities or experience and there is no reference to his exile effecting him in that way. I hope it gets better.
In theory, my idea would be to get a few other people, place Thrawn into a situation with the cast, and have everyone brainstorm both the cast's plans to stop him, and how he could and would counter said plans with the resources he has, and then repeat with every new outcome, and have him either say aloud what he would do as them as they do exactly the things he's saying he'd do, or have him say nothing, but imply with micro expressions that he clearly knew exactly what they would do, only to have them guided into a situation or a few situations where they seem to realize that Thrawn has planned for every idea they could have had, up to and including Sabine using the god damn force. In fact, if it were me, and I wrote that Thrawn let Sabine go, I'd have him have some sort of plan where he in fact knew she'd have the force later on, and would use all three to combine their Force abilities to be the actual reason he made it back, under some sort of implied threat to maybe the innocent lives around them or something? And maybe it's because of Ezra's attachment to these people that Ahsoka and Sabine play his game, and maybe they need to lift some sort of Maguffin with the force, or push him as some sort of start, and Sabine was actually needed for that because he knew Ezra and Ahsoka were just that little bit short? This came with the 3 minutes of thought I spent writing it, give me a week and I could likely plot out a better outline lol, so I'd imagine someone with actual talent could do better. As I didn't even know who Thrawn was before Rebels.
Thank you for stating what the rest of the Thrawn fandom has been thinking. He deserved so much better than this.
I agree completely! He is my favourite character after all and they didn’t write him well at all .
I havent even read the books but I saw this coming. Writing for a character who is way smarter than you is not easy
Agreed it is so difficult to write.
I literally think this version of Thrawn is just Kathleen Kennedy in blue paint. I know I can't be the only one that sees it.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've never read the books but I know how much they messed up his character in ahsoka which is such a shame because Its such a dissapointment from the creators as the entire show had so much potential
I would recommend them - also the audio books are outstanding 👍
But yeah agreed missed potential.
The live version looks like a blue elon musk
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Same thing I was thinking lol
The whole show is one big insult for everyone who watched Rebels. Let alone people who has read the books. It was horrendous. And im truly truly not on the "Lets hate modern star wars and modern pokemon"- Bandwagon .... Andor was phenomenal. TCW was the best thing star wars ever made and and Rebels is pretty close up there too.
But jeez... did they ruin Thrawn. Thrawn was a highly competent, non-aggressive intellectual in Rebels. A warrior trough and trough with a big sense of honor.
Dont get me wrong... Thrawn always was one of the "Bad guys". But it was very easy to sympathize with him... or better said... to respect him.
The Thrawn in the Ahsoka-Show is an aggressive, blood-thirsty incompetent clown who is sacrificing his people left and right and does one dumb move after another.
I truly hate how some new star wars shows MUST picture the empire as incompetent clowns all the time. If you watch Ahsoka, Kenobi or even Mando... you truly wonder how the empire ever was able to control a galaxy.
You know who pictured them correctly? Andor! The empire was a highly competent, highly intellegent thread to the galaxy.... even just ties or ISB-Agents are shown as an enormous danger there. Thats what the empire is. Not some clowny stormtrooper who charge into melee with a jedi for no reason (lel Kenobi).
Andor is peak writing. Ahsoka, Kenobi and Mando are an insult.
He didn't get his chance to do anything significant in Ahsoka because his primary goal was escape while minimizing resource loss. He knew better than to face these jedi head on especially Ahsoka. Plus every time he sent troops after Ezra they died so he stopped sending scouting parties. Ezra made a vest out of their dog tags. Caution and stalling tactics were the best option since they weren't killed on his first try when they were located. He disabled their ship with minimal ship losses and only lost the one squad that bought his ship time to get away (He was even smart enough to recall the first squad when Ahsoka showed up and reunited with Ezra and Sabine). He knew they probably would have killed everyone on board if all three made it. And he was okay with sending an entire squad because it's three jedi. One of them an unkillable badass that survived three eras. He knew not to fuck around and sent just enough to hold them off since they can also become zombies with nightsister magic. The reason he took so long is because that cargo he wanted must be vitally important for his bigger plans when he returns to the galaxy. Of course he's going to be different from the best version of the character but that isn't a bad thing. He literally just made the transition from animation to live action. Give him the one thing he needs most of all. Time.
Also Thrawn is in a different state of mind right now. He's been stranded there for over a decade with nothing but lemmings to talk too. And he doesn't mind sacrificing people when it's needed because he needs to return to the known galaxy at all costs and also hold off three jedi that are coming for his head. I wouldn't blame him for being a little paranoid about the jedi as well since every time he's faced them they have summoned monsterous freaks of nature that destroyed everything.
Thank you for the detailed comment on the whole I agree with you. The writing in Star Wars has not been the best. Andor had some excellent writing, so it portrayed the empire as a real threat.
you meant boba, not mando. unless you watched s3 then indeed.
Andor was totally fine and true to Star Wars yes. But meh... let's say that the writer missed some key principles of storytelling on that one. It's like if it was purposeless and went nowhere. It's just not like that, that you tell a story usually. You can't just relay events and call that a good story. They could totally make another one in the same manner all around, except if they do, they should correct how the story is communicated to the audience. After watching this, people were asking me about it and I just answered: "yeaaaahhh... well. It was totally Star Wars. This really IS true Star Wars. ...but yeah. That's the only thing I have to say."
I loved him. And didn’t dislike him in Ahsoka as much as everyone else. But get Timothy Zahn in the team, he needs to be telling everyone what Thrawns gonna do
Thank you for the great comments 👍 Glad you liked him. Timothy Zahn was a must on the writing team.
@@starwarsgrandmoff hey loved the video dude. Sorry you didn’t enjoy him. I understand where people are coming from, he wasn’t as Sherlock Holmes as I wanted him to be. But he’s also in a situation we haven’t seen before so I can see why he’s a bit off. Hopes are high for the future of his character
Thanks appreciate the support, hope you stick around 👍
I understand what you mean but there is no evidence Thrawn is out of his element in the show. And same I hope it improves in the future.
@@starwarsgrandmoff definitely dude. Earned yourself a sub just from being so awesome about different opinions. While I really still enjoyed him he definitely wasn’t on heir to the empire levels.
@paxsondavies1575 Thankds dude apparently it 👍
He didn't get his chance to do anything significant in Ahsoka because his primary goal was escape while minimizing resource loss. He knew better than to face these jedi head on especially Ahsoka. Plus every time he sent troops after Ezra they died so he stopped sending scouting parties. Ezra made a vest out of their dog tags. Caution and stalling tactics were the best option. He disabled their ship with minimal ship losses and only lost the one squad that bought his ship time to get away. He knew they probably would have killed everyone on board if all three made it. And he was okay with sending an entire squad is because it's three jedi. One of them an unkillable badass that survived three eras. He knew not to fuck around and sent just enough to hold them off since they can also become zombies with nightsister magic. The reason he took so long is because that cargo he wanted must be vitally important for his bigger plans when he returns to the galaxy. Of course he's going to be different from the best version of the character but that isn't a bad thing. He literally just made the transition from animation to live action. Give him the one thing he needs most of all. Time.
Also Thrawn is in a different state of mind right now. He's been stranded there for over a decade with nothing but lemmings to talk too. And he doesn't mind sacrificing people when it's needed because he needs to return to the known galaxy at all costs and also hold off three jedi that are coming for his head. I wouldn't blame him for being a little paranoid about the jedi as well since every time he's faced them they have summoned monsterous freaks of nature that destroyed everything.
Thank you for the detailed comment! I understand what you are saying, you make some interesting points. I think it is more the writing that bugs me as it makes thing not make sense. Excellent point with the resources as they did that right as Thrawn would be efficient with his resources. But on that point they had a lack of resources but they still have thousands if not millions of space mines 🤣
Ezra avoided the Star Destroyer until Ahsoka and Sabine arrived, and he had no idea that Sabine was there. I don't know how Thrawn never managed to kill Ezra either. Yeah, he had a vest of dog tags, but not only is he woefully unarmed compared to Thrawn, Thrawn is supposed to have a superior tactical mind. Someone with a superior tactical mind should have been packed and ready to go. The night sisters are the ones sending out the message to Morgan, he knew someone was coming to save him, so why not prepare? Why did he let Sabine live? Especially since he failed to kill Ezra several times as you said, and he has a prisoner. Nothing changes, and he puts himself at a further disadvantage by allowing them to regroup. So why not kill her then and there? He has no obligation besides honor to follow through with Skoll's promise. Skoll, who was ordered to kill both Sabine and Ezra anyway, so again, why not kill her there? The night sisters can track force users, when they're using the force. Ezra says the force is his ally. So he's been using the force to keep himself trained. Which means he is trackable and can send Skoll and Hati directly to Ezra's location and finish him off. The justifications for Thrawn being completely ineffective don't work. ESPECIALLY when your heroes are in no rush to stop him. What do they do? Well, Sabine neglects to tell Ezra how and why she got there, and he doesn't push for it. The turtle people are completely ineffectual in combat, so why not go their separate ways. There are in NO RUSH until the Tie Fighters somehow manage to damage Ahsoka's ship enough to slow them down from a turtle crawl to a snail's pace. How is Thrawn anything but ineffectual and a non-threat when our heroes treat him as such?
The only state of mind change of his is that he lost a whole bunch of brain cells in the last 10 years. He acts the same, just a stupid version of him.
It baffles me how Thrawn was portrayed MUCH better in an animated kids show than he was in his monumental live action debut
It’s because Dave was the sole writer for Ahsoka and rebels had a range of writers.
Honestly his portrayal in Rebels was just okay and it barely passed the test for me. We're always told how terrifying and intelligent Thrawn is, but we're barely shown it. Even when he talks about how his failings are actually successes, it rings out hallow and with little to back it up in the end. Maybe it's because everyone is afraid to give their villains some teeth, but I dunno.
Honestly, it’s just bad writing. And you hit the nail on the head with hallow. I agree totally! Thanks for the thoughtful comment, hope to see you around here more 👍
@@starwarsgrandmoff Pretty much. An example i can give is the character of General Greivous. In legends material and the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon Greivous was shown to be a terrifying character, a powerful warrior with a sharp mind. He overpowered several Jedi (some of which were council members) and was only stopped by the timely arrival of arc troopers and their gunship. He was a monster and you genuinely felt dread when he approached the heroes of the story. Especially since you could hear his footsteps.
In the CGI Clone Wars cartoon, he's still fairly intimidating, but more often than not he's played off as kind of a joke. This is also due to a rewriting of his story from a warrior who was cruely betrayed by Count Dooku and turned into a cyborg warrior for Sidious's experiments to make a cybernetic force-sensitive warrior which would culminate in Darth Vader. In the new story he simply wanted to be more powerful and to defeat the Jedi. I still enjoyed his presence in the show since there were times when he was shown to be skilled and could go head-to-head with Obi-Wan, but not quite to the horror movie scale he was in the 2003 cartoon. But even in 2003 he wasn't all powerful. Whenever he went against a Jedi that used the Force against him, he had to run or regroup before engaging again.
I don't like people just trashing a character without offering any suggestions on how they could have been done differently.
Thanks for the feedback, I might honestly do I whole video on how to rewrite Thrawn/ changes that would have made him better. Also in my previous video I talk about what I would like to see from live action Thrawn and the things to avoid.
What do you think of live action Thrawn?
He was terrible in ahsoka
Unfortunately, it’s true.
I think Thrawn was disappointing in most aspects however I feel like Ahsoka just running in would actually be the last thing to think about because of how blatant it is (however yeah the doors should be closed)
Hopefully season two will be better because theoretically he has more recourses
@tafmc2406 Yeah maybe, it’s all to do with who is writing it honestly. In Rebels there were multiple writers in Ahsoka it was only Dave so I hope for season 2 they colab more.
Problem: show Thrawn's a real threat if he was to return
Solution: in ten years he's become a God to the Perideans, turning the wasteland tribes into cargo cults worshipping him & the Chimera; he can scale this to the galactic scale with the imperial remnant (which as shown in Mando is only simulating factional infighting); the war band he summons screens the perimeter of the Temple Complex while they load (since they're ripping of LOTR and this is literally Mount Doom)
Filoni's dialogue, direction, and editing/framing choices are amateur on a level I haven't seen since D&D on _Game of Thrones._ The casting and production values are otherwise adequate. _Ahsoka_ was Pyramid Scheme exposition with drop shipped non-payoffs in that cliff hanger ending for all plot threads; oh great, they swapped galaxies _status quo ante._ The Thrawn guy is fine, Filoni just ought've learned _"faster and more intensity"_ by now from George. Beer gut's passable for his age, but really ought've been shot & edited around.
Zombie stormtroopers, dog!!! Zombie stormtroopers !
What’s in your head? In your head? 🧟♀️🧟
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ON SPOT! THANK YOU I was very disapointed
Glad you agree with me 👍 Hope you stick around 😊
How does the New Republic even work? Why should the Chancellor hold a vote in the Senate to allow the general (!) to take a squadron if only one senator can approve this mission?
Huyang throughout the series: gives logical and rational arguments for why Ahsoka's actions are idiotic.
Ahsoka: no. Do as I say, I have plot armor and plot luck.
Huyang: Okay.
Minefield. Do you have any idea how many mines it takes to mine SPACE? And how long will it take? And why weren't any whales harmed by them?
Naturally, flying straight through the wreckage, you won’t damage even the antenna on your boat...
Sabin, you still haven’t told Ezra the situation, even though you don’t have time? What a stupid cow you are...
How did Beilan and Shin negotiate with the red riders, who obviously do not know their language and who caught them over the corpses of their comrades?
Naturally, Ahsoka and Sabine can connect mentally, despite the fact that Sabine is insensitive to the Force... and Ezra is sitting next to her, but Ahsoka does not feel him...
Witches can not only sense Ahsoka, but also determine her position on the map with an accuracy of up to a meter? But they couldn't find Ezra for 10 years?
Thrawn, if you don't care whether you defeat your enemies or not because you'll get off the planet, why don't you just shoot and bomb them from the air instead of sending a useless landing party? Actually, you don’t have many soldiers left, and you still have to fight the Republic...
Ezra. You're a fucking Jedi. Take your fucking lightsaber and fight Shin! Sabin doesn't even use it!
Ezra is so strong that he can forcefully stop Shin's blows, but Shin can knock him back and knock him out?
The Ninja Turtles invented flying armored personnel carriers, but they shoot with fucking slingshots? By armored riders? How about just running them over?
Ahsoka, why did you jump off to fight Baylan if your goal is to help Ezra and Ahsoka and he doesn’t threaten them? And your plan was to let Huyang burn you with flashes?
Naturally, Ahsoka can simply drive into the frame through a crowd of stormtroopers, they can’t do anything at all...
How about disarming and tying up Shin so you have a hostage and an extra lightsaber? No?
In short, I've had enough. The series is shit, which will be licked because they showed us a hologram of Anakin and he said “Ventress.” Filoni is an arrogant hack, no better than Abrams or Johnson. Thanks everyone for reading.
after he got defeated by plot armor, he achieved the ability to control plot from ezra, hence why he didn't need to kill him and let him live. There, i fixed canon thrawn
Yeah he doesn’t seem capable like in Disney cannon books and doesn’t seem ruthless enough like in legends.
They miss the mark on both, unfortunately.
Lore of How to Ruin Thrawn - Live Action Thrawn vs Thrawn From the Books momentum 100
Yep. Completely off from the real character. The first thing that bugged me as soon as I saw him was his shape and posture, his arms and hands movements, the way the expression of his eyes, eyelids and eyebrows are not right. And the storytelling that's so trash indeed. It's just not Thrawn, and this character was one that was absolutely required to be perfect. I don't blame Filoni, I blame Disney and the thing that's at the head of Lucasfilms right now. The voice actor is very good. Just the voice acting. Not the physical performance, not even his text.
Thanks for the detailed comment, make sure to stick about it you like discussing this stuff 👍
Posture yes I agree. It is unfortunately 100% Dave’s fault he is the lead and I believe mainly sole writer of Ahsoka. And honestly that for me is where the problem lie. Dave is a big picture guy but not a solo writer.
@@starwarsgrandmoff Yeah indeed, if he "does everything", it's a problem. A scenario should be written by a real writer. I think he should only be directing if he is to be director. Someone has to stay detatched from the work that's being done to have an external eye on it and manage everything better. With a good consultant at his side at that. Like a real dedicated fan who knows the business or Lucas himself, like for The Mandalorian before s3.
@Bene_Singularis agreed anything with colab storytelling normally ends up better. Thanks for your comments and insights, hope to see you around here more 👍
Filoni wrote every single damn episode. Why give him a pass? The man's always been very bad with the EU, and it's time people stopped making excuses for him.
@@saberiandream316 Blame his boss KK. Not him. He does wonderful work when he's allowed to do what whould be done, like Lucas and even Hamill would want it. Blame the executives of Disney like KK. She's doing evil and everyone knows it. Filoni has his hands tied, you know how this is. If only his bosses were real Star Wars fans. But they only care for their woke political agenda.
Meanwhile, I laugh at this shit and dive right back into my EU books. I don't need Disney or the Filoniverse.
How would you write thrawn.
In the show
Good question. In short like Sherlock Holmes from the BBC series. I would get Timothy Zahn to be a major part of the writing team as he has repeatedly shown he knows how to write Thrawn.
Hope that answers your question 👍
@@starwarsgrandmoff like how would you rewrite him finding out she anakin’s apprentice and plan against her?
@CloneTrooper-yz2ov with Thrawn it is all about pay off at the end but out smarting your opponent. By studying your enemy. If you have not read or listen to the first book I would recommend it. It will give you a better understanding of what good writing with Thrawn could be.
To be clear I am not a professional writer but if Disney hired and consulted with the right people this wouldn’t be an issue and that’s the change they needed to make.
@@starwarsgrandmoff I get that. I also currently reading the book on the laus (Irish train) to college. I would disagree that anakin unpredictable, has always makes decisions that are dangerous or bold. Obi wan is unpredictable, has he might go by the book one second or drop and kick it into the enemies face.
He wasn't wrong, he knew they are unpredictable, and instead of just forming one strategy, he basically corralled them to take a direct approach while creating several barriers to prevent them from making it on time. Thrawn achieved his goal and it's not last minute, it strategic, and I do not understand anyone who thinks Thrawn was being dumb. he had all this planned, he just waited to see if the other plans worked before executing the next. he never panicked, he never was concerned, he clearly knew that, with his experience with Ezra, to never underestimate them, and instead of throwing everything at them at once, he made strategic moves as they progressed. Watch it again.
I think what you're missing is that he is far more intelligent then what they portrayed. If they had portrayed him as competently as he is in both canon and legends he would prove to be far more adversarial.
Yeah I think they got Thrawn a lot closer than anyone else. Hera and Sabine were unrecognizable and Ahsoka herself wasn't much better. Ezra and Thrawn were the closest to acting like how we've seen them before. It's still badly written, but the spirit was there. It made sense for Thrawn to not care at all if they live or die since leaving them in that galaxy would basically be a death sentence anyway. It made sense for Ezra to let Sabine keep his lightsaber so he could pick up an E-11. Why he didn't steal Shin's lightsaber or why they didn't capture her? That was pretty dumb. I hated the natives too. Say what you will about Ewoks, at least they knew where they stood in the food chain and did not mess around when it came to building weapons.
Thanks for your detail comment. This is a safe space to discuss Star Wars and while I don’t agree with you I appreciate the comment as you obviously feel passionate about it. And for the record I have watched it 3 times. Have you read or listened to the books at all I would recommend it, then compare them and let me know what you think 👍
Nah, Thrawn was pretty stupid because he failed to utilize any of his resources even remotely intelligently. Let his opponents regroup, and the writers recognized this because they let Sabine, Ezra, and Ahsoka chill on a slow-moving ship to escort turtle people merchandise until their ship is temporarily decommissioned. Ahsoka, Ezra, and Sabine basically treated it like a vacation because, as you said, once all three arrive on the ship, it's over for Thrawn. I'm failing to understand how people think him remotely intelligent. If he's so worried and paranoid about Jedi. When the night sisters out Sabine as a Jedi. Kill her. Ezra isn't going to take a whole star Destroyer and ship with night sisters by himself. What is Ahsoka going to do? She survived 3 eras of Star Wars because Filoni doesn't want his OC to die. Literally used time travel to save her, but even then, she's not a one man army. No Jedi can take a whole Starship by themselves. Luke only managed this in Mando S2 because the ship was already cleared out by Mando and friends. How Ezra survived the trip between the 2 galaxies when the night sisters can sense force users is beyond me as well. The villains are clearly written as morons.
@@HeavyMetalJesus02 Yeah this, how can Sabine not inform Ezra and Ahsoka that if they want to leave they had better hurry! Or didn't Ahsoka tell them that the whales she arrived with where gone?
Yes you're being way too hard. You don't take into consideration that Thrawn is out of his element being in a different galaxy. He never expected ahsoka to show up. She came in a freaking whale! The only thing he needs to do is get away with his cargo. And that's exactly what he does. Thrawn in the books lost several battles himself. Because people did unexpected things. Han and Lando used the mining ships to deadhead the fleet Thrawn was trying to steal. Then Han, Luke and Lando along with their strike team used a dead katana fleet to fire on his fleet. And at the very end he completely underestimated his bodyguard allowing him to be betrayed and murdered in the midst of the battle. In Rebels Thrawn was smarter and had more wins. That's why thrawns author says that Dave Filoni understands the character more than anyone else. You're not taking any of these things into consideration.
Thanks for the detailed comment, I can see you are passionate about this. There is no evidence that Thrawn is out of his element. He appears to be in ‘control’ the entire time.
The books I am referring to in the video are the canon book series.
I am taking these things into consideration but you need to remember that the author said these things before the series was out and because he can’t bad mouth other writers like Dave or he would never get a job again.
2:10 Barely gets away? What were three people gonna do in a ship? Pull him over? They weren’t gonna damage the hyperdrive ring, they weren’t gonna sabotage from the inside as that would take too long and they’d already be back in the normal galaxy.
2:42 As for Ahsoka “walking” Thrawn has already the cargo he needed loaded up. The last goal was to leave Ahsoka and company stranded so they wouldn’t have the CHANCE to sabotage his chances of escape, destroying the cargo OR returning with him to warn the New Republic.
3:11 Not everyone’s weaknesses can be exploited easily. Sometimes it takes build up (see Thrawn’s collecting of evidence for Atollon in S3) or takes certain requirements to meet (see Anakin having his love ones in danger to be emotionally vulnerable).
3:24 Because she was trained by Anakin and likely seen she was only a Padawan for 3 short years under him as well as her accomplishments outside of his tutelage meant that she was all over the place in terms of strategy as we see in Rebels she is far more careful than her younger self. This time around, she started recklessly like her master (which she hadn’t done in years) and pursued that plan. She could have done a number of things differently. She could have tried sneaking across the field without the animals. She could have tried scaling the outside of the tower of the gun’s sights. Ahsoka simply chose the direct route and Thrawn observed the opening maneuver and reacted accordingly.
4:00 While true, it could’ve been equally possible Thrawn wanted to keep his troops more mobile and plan ambushes. Moving on.
4.35 If the man who wrote the man up himself says Dave understands (and helped to writer him for Ahsoka) then yes he understands.
5:07 What’s predictable about being reckless? The very context of recklessness is being unpredictable. It’s when she stops charging ahead and does something else he’d be forced to adapt to. Plus knowing what your opponent is gonna do is not the same how they execute it. They could be methodical in dispatching troops. They could be going at it as if their lives depended on it and went completely Rambo hack and slash. Thrawn already had the resurrected troopers thing planned out. He was just waiting on timing.
5:20 It’s hard to see patterns when you just met your opponent and you don’t see her don’t see her operate in person or seen her only once. No matter how detailed his dossier is on her.
In the end, Thrawn still had a comfortable victory even if Ezra snuck aboard and left 2 powerful Force users stranded in tow with 3 nightsisters aboard his ship.
Wow! Thanks for the detailed comment. I appreciate the time and energy you put into this. Maybe I didn’t explain these points well enough.
1. Barely gets away. Thrawn repeated said they have lost their time and it is impossible for them to get to the ship. In comparison they did get frighteningly close and Erza even got on the ship when it was meant to be impossible.
2. Agreed, which he failed in as Erza got back and did just that.
3. Agree, sometimes it can take time with Thrawn to build up a profile on a group organization like the rebels. But here we are talking about one person. And what did his research show that she is unpredictable, that’s it and she wasn’t even that - making his only prediction on Ahsoka false.
4. I think we can make reasoning for anything. As said above he said one thing and it was incorrect.
5. Quite possible.
6. He did, before the show came out. Plus, it is in his best interest to do so. As you don’t slam fellow writers/ colleagues or you won’t get another writing job with them.
7. To be clear Thrawn says Ahsoka is unpredictable and she is not. Not because Ahsoka isn’t but because the writing is so simple they have to do the most obvious thing. And my point is Thrawn can predict and execute on plans that is his whole thing the core to the character. Look at him in rebels or if you haven’t read/listen to the first book or comic. He makes elaborate plans and execute them flawlessly that is the whole character of Thrawn.
8. Agreed and for a normal person it’s impossible to make conclusions. But Thrawn is supposed to be well informed which means doing more research than just her master and nothing else. Literally nothing else. In Rebels Thrawn says to defeat an enemy you must know them study them.
9. Yes he won but it’s hard not to see that the plot wanted this to happen, he didn’t win off his own merit and that’s the problem.
I could have done a whole video replying to you 🤣 Thanks again for the comment, hope you are having a great day 👍
You need to give them time mate, he’s not gonna be some OG gangster after 10 years in exile but he executed his plans near too the letter in ahsoka give it time my guy it’ll get better
I will give it time but Thrawn isn’t a new character and in his exile he didn’t lose his abilities or experience and there is no reference to his exile effecting him in that way.
I hope it gets better.
Get outta here with this.
Ok, bye 👋
How would you write thrawn.
In theory, my idea would be to get a few other people, place Thrawn into a situation with the cast, and have everyone brainstorm both the cast's plans to stop him, and how he could and would counter said plans with the resources he has, and then repeat with every new outcome, and have him either say aloud what he would do as them as they do exactly the things he's saying he'd do, or have him say nothing, but imply with micro expressions that he clearly knew exactly what they would do, only to have them guided into a situation or a few situations where they seem to realize that Thrawn has planned for every idea they could have had, up to and including Sabine using the god damn force. In fact, if it were me, and I wrote that Thrawn let Sabine go, I'd have him have some sort of plan where he in fact knew she'd have the force later on, and would use all three to combine their Force abilities to be the actual reason he made it back, under some sort of implied threat to maybe the innocent lives around them or something? And maybe it's because of Ezra's attachment to these people that Ahsoka and Sabine play his game, and maybe they need to lift some sort of Maguffin with the force, or push him as some sort of start, and Sabine was actually needed for that because he knew Ezra and Ahsoka were just that little bit short?
This came with the 3 minutes of thought I spent writing it, give me a week and I could likely plot out a better outline lol, so I'd imagine someone with actual talent could do better. As I didn't even know who Thrawn was before Rebels.