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Mate, love your reviews but scale your charts properly by starting them at zero (in most cases). Cheers! www.chadskelton.com/2018/06/bar-charts-should-always-start-at-zero.html measuringu.com/graph-zero/
@@tyrereviews thank you for a great review. I'm getting a BMW M2 CS soon which comes with the Cup2's all round. I probably will never take it to track. What tyres would you recommend for better longevity and economics? Many thanks in advance
It seems the dry lap times didn't render into the video for some reason, sorry! The average times were Cup 2, 73.1, Cup 2 R, 71.8. The Laps Cup 2: 65 , 64.8, 64.7, 65.1 Cup 2 R: 63.2 , 64.1, 64.2, 64.4
This is what i saw as well on BIC GP configuration, i have seen 3-4 seconds advantage for the CUP2Rs over CUP2s. Keep in mind that is around a 2:10 lap time. So around 1:30 lap the difference would be around 2 seconds like you saw.
Awesome, that seems to be a good trace. Michelin actually tested at Silverstone GP and found 3 seconds and Brands GP and found 2.5, so everything seems to add up.
We need to retest ALL CARS FROM LAST 20 years BECAUSE OF the tire technology progress! For example the old C6Z06 will be almost 6-7 second faster around a decent size track. Nurburgring will probably be 10sec or more!
I couldn't agree more with this assessment of the Cup 2s. I use them on my daily in a Mediterranean climate, where winter isn't heavy with rain. I have to add, that the consistency of the tyre over the full course of its life is extremely consistent. It offers almost as much grip towards the end as it does at the start of its life - at least on public roads. I never had such a consistent and great performing tyre.
@@thesoloadventure5958 I've done nearly 30,000 km, and they're getting towards the end. I should mention I don't drive them hard - on average - and they've only been moderately tracked once for a couple of hours. I'd say 30,000 km is a rough estimate of what you can expect out of the tyres, if you don't hammer them.
Another great comparo! I run the Cup 2 for a couple seasons now and love it. I actually came here because I have FOMO with the Cup 2R. Your comments towards the end are great for us Cup 2 consumers.
I've always wondered how the Toyo Proxes R888-R compares to the PilotSport Cup 2, have you or may you do a review on those for comparison? FANTASTIC stuff man... You are the absolute bar when it comes to information on tires! Keep it upppp! 😎🔥
@@tyrereviews YESSSSSSS!!! Thank you thank you thank you!! I'm just about looking to pull the trigger on those R888-Rs, and I'd really like to see how they compare... Again man, hands down, no content exists anywhere that can even come close to comparing the level of detail, the amount of unbiased opinion, or the sheer level of both quality and quantity of the tires you have reviewed. Thank you for all that you do!!
Ad08r/rs, r888r and nankang ar-1 would be a good test. Puts tyres into a lot more trackday groups then as you can get then in much smaller fitments for clios, imprezas etc. I'd like to see the accelera 651 sport tested as well as that's meant to be a solid tyre now
About to try Cup 2R. I have a HSV VF GTS auto with 586kw at the rear wheels. Been using Pilot Sport 4S for roll racing and they have been hooking up (suprisingly) really well. Just upgraded my differential from the standard 3.2 ratio to a 3.7 ratio and expecting the Sport 4S to no longer cut it. See how the Cup 2R goes.
Great content as always. I'd love to see more common trackday size comparassion. For example: 265/35/18 - Trofeo R - Direzza 03g - Nankan AR1 - Federal FZ-201 - Cup 2 - Yokohama A052 :)
@@AB-80X No. The A052 will wipe all the others including the Cup 2. It may be the best trackday tire out there. It has all the street tire class time attack lap records in the US. Not even the RE71R could beat it. The cup 2 was measurably slower. I would love to see how it fares to a Cup 2R and R888R and maybe a BFG Rival.
@@AB-80X you are incorrect. The AR1 is essentially a 100TW Enduro tyre. Whilst it is a high performing tyre it’s nowhere near the level of Hankook Z221 TDs or Advan A050s. (Not A052s). This has been proven everywhere in Australia especially at time attack events and hill climbs. Even the new Bridgestone RE71RS’s are faster than Nankang AR1s
Thanks Jonathan!! Really looking forward to watching this video. For me, Michelin really do make the best tyres! A very close second is Goodyear. Continental and Pirelli don't come close in my opinion. (V8 RWD Sedan with 630rwhp)
I'd like to see on the skoda a comparison of a general all season tire vs the cup 2. A sort of what happened when you put racing tires on the family car. Happy holidays!!!
I don't do track days so I'll stick to my Pilot Sport 4S for wet weather reasons. Wish I had the resources to experience what you do... I enjoy all your reviews, Thanks.
I did a calculation of the Cup2 R's longitudinal deceleration during the braking test and came up with a figure of 1.29 g's, amazing that your eyeballs weren't pulled out of their sockets when you hit the brakes on that car with those tires.
@@tyrereviews Yes, that was an average over the 43.55 meter braking distance. You might need to start wearing fighter pilot g-suits if you're going to be doing such high g manouvers on these tire tests😁
Great video, I have cup 2’s on my car and I’m itching to get back out on track to test them. A video on how to decide optimum track pressures would be great as so many people run them too high and end up with overheating/blistering
By the way, my car is the 992 Turbo S, and the only N-rated tires so far I could find are the Pirelli P-Zero it came with. I tested them on the track last week, but felt I could have done much better times with better suited tires. I know the subject has been discussed in many forums, but I would be really very interested in hearing your expert opinion on this - using non-N rated Cup-2's on a car like that
I have a Mk1 Focus RS running 380bhp on standard rims (225/40r18). It does less than 1,000 mile a year, no track use but the odd show in the summer. I had Toyo R1R's fitted and they were fantastic although they look to be discontinued so I went for the R888R and they drone like mud tyres on a land rover! I'm tempted to give some Michelins a try next unless you could recommend anything more suitable? Great content!
Thomas I have a mk2 focus rs had conti contact 3 on changed to the Goodyear f1 supersports, wow fantastic tyre,never had ps4s so I can't compare, check out the reviews, you wouldn't be disappointed with the f1 supersports that's for sure ,great in wet and dry,probably to good for how I drive it probably should of gone asymmetric 5 tbh
Jonathan your comment about impressing your girlfriend with high-G braking reminded me of the famous Top Gear episode where they tried to impress teenage girls with handbrake turns. Maybe I made a bad choice but my missus get annoyed if I exceed 4000 rpm in my 986S cos “it’s just noisy and uncomfortable”!
Good video as usual, changing tyre level, it would be interesting to see the differences on dry and wet of sport vs touring tyres, so something like Primacy 4 vs Pilot Sport 4 and/or Goodyear EfficientGrip 2 vs Eagle F1 Asy 5
@@tyrereviews Yeah, something I want to see as well. Often both tires are available and it's hard to choose for a family car : the touring tyre is probably more comfortable, but by how much? While the sport tyre is probably safer, but by how much? I want safety and comfort and I really have a harde time choosing! :)
It's a dirty job testing all those tires in a Porsche GT3 RS but somebody has to do it. Seriously, thanks Jonathan for interesting and informative tests you've been doing on the Michelin tires. I've made the decision to replace my PS4S tires on my 370Z with the PSC2 next time I change tires, in good measure based on your observations on the performances of these various Michelin tires.
@tyrereviews old comment, but imagine if the C7 Corvette ZR1 had Cup 2 R tires instead of regular Cup 2s. The Mercedes AMG GT Black Series is just 250ms quicker around VIR Grand Course with its Cup 2 R tires and the ZR1 is slightly faster than the 911 GT2 RS while it uses Cup 2 Rs
Again a very nice video. My god that car sounds like an angel. I would very much like a test with energy saving tires. Tires for BEV and so. Keep up the superb work
Love these reviews...from the extreme high performance tyres like these to the more mundane everyday stuff...I always recommend anyone I know ,whose thinking of putting shitty budgets on to check out your reviews...so many people who just see their car as a mode of transport think a tyre is a tyre is a tyre, and buy on price alone, unfortunately...also, I reckon there should be some form of insurance discount if you fit decent tyres
BRAVO !! Love what your doing. I have the 4s's on my '18 ZL1/1LE an they were my tire of choice when the factory Goodyear's went south. I ran a back to back lap times at HPR (Colorado) of 2:08, not bad for not touching the car , alignment an such.Curious how the Bridgestone RE71R fare , in the mix? Presently looking for a strictly Track Day tire, leaning towards the Factory Goodyears. Keep up the good / fun work, im jealous HMF
It seems the dry lap times didn't render into the video for some reason, sorry! The average times were Cup 2, 73.1, Cup 2 R, 71.8. The Laps Cup 2: 65, 64.8, 64.7, 65.1 Cup 2 R: 63.2, 64.1, 64.2, 64.4
Really helpful review thank you. I have you tested the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT CUP 2 CONNECT versus the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT CUP 2 R please? I would be interested in your thoughts?
Would be interesting to see the porformance differance between these tyres and a real competition tyre. Years ago every one raved about yoki r32's & 38's. If you then fitted a inter, like Dunlop X12 you were off the brakes and back on the throttle, when braking for the same corner. The differance was somthing like 1 1/2 seconds a stage mile in wet conditions, in the dry it was 2+ seconds With a 180 bhp peugeot 205. Or a mk1 golf with the same sort of power
Thanks for this! I imagine a Slick tyre actually wouldn't set any much faster time than the Cup 2 R but it is able to repeat it more often when set up right. Are there any plans on comparing street and racing tires at this point?
"Show off to a mate" - Yes okay "Show off to a Girl" - ummmm she wouldnt be interested in tyres. Atleast mine is not. :P Lucky are the one's who have that :D Awesome review. hoping for more content soon
I just saw on the Michelin USA site that the cup 2r is available for the TLX type S. It would be fun to see how much more bonkers this tire is compared to the normal tires on that car. Track tire on a sport sedan... Let's find out 😁
Great review as always 👍 Could you please please test sport contact 7 vs Cup 2 cannot find any comparisons anywhere. Now tech street vs old tech track tire.
Great comparison as always. Keen to see how the Pilot Sport Cup 2 and Pilot Sport Cup 2 Connect compare when you get that opportunity! I've read that the Connect variant also has sensors built into the tyres to take data on the roll, is that meant to be their defining difference from the Sport Cup 2 or do you expect performance differences on track as well?
What you say about the new Track Connect being longer lasting is not entirely trye. Michelin has actually made two different types of Track Connect Cup 2 tyres. One features the regular Cup 2 compounds and the normal 180 wear rating, while there's a new version featuring a 240 tread waer and harder compound This latter tyre slots in between the MPS4S and regular Cup 2. Some refer to the new Cup 2 as the Cup 2 240. Tread wear ratings goes as follows. MPS4S: 300 Cup 2 "240": 240 Cup 2/Cup 2 Track Connect: 180 Cup 2 R: 140
Michelin have made this super confusing for us. We're calling the Cup 2 Track connect the cup 2.5, but don't get it confused with the other Cup 2 Track connect which isn't the new compound
I have a Widebody hellcat and looking to upgrade the tires. I found a good deal on a set of Michelin Cup 2 R tires 305/35/20. I am an intermediate driver with the Porsche and BMW clubs. Would you expect these tires to last 5+ track days or do they really only have one session of life?
If you're talking the regular Connect there's no difference. What he failed to mention is that there are two versions of the Connect. There's one which is the normal Cup 2, but with the Connect feature. But along side that, Michelin has released a new Cup 2 Connect called the Cup 2 Connect 240. This is a Cup 2 with a harder compound that slots in between the MPS4S and Cup 2. Some also refer to it as the Cup 2 "Sport". So now there are actually three compounds in the Cup to range. From hard to soft. Cup 2 240 Cup 2 Cup 2 R Be aware of this if you're looking into using the Connect shoes.
Deg by session vs lap would be helpful. I’ve heard both cup2 and 2R get quick deg after two or three sessions. Interested in this at your level of driving
It would be great to see the Nankang AR1and Toyo R888r brought into the comparison with the Cup 2 and Goodyear tyres considering the Nankang and Toyo tyres are a very common sight on track days.
Hi Mate, I need ure opinion. i d like to buy 2 Tires, 2x 335 30 20, but i can t get desicion which s the best tires 4 my car, (Turbo S-650hp;) 2x Michelin Pilot Super Sport N0 or Michelin Pilot Sport PS2? i ll be happy about ure answer and recommend ;) Greetings from Germany
What about p-zero corsa instead of trofeo, are there much difference? For your comments Pirelli sound like the more suitable for me, furthermore I want to switch from Michelin due to the big problems I had in other cars and it’s always the same, it’s like the outside of the tire get loose
Great review! I would love to get the Cup 2 R... but I guess I will stay with the Cup 2 because of it's everyday drive capability. By the way, I've driven the Cup 2 over the Alps lately... ENDLESS GRIP!!!
Thanks for the awesome comparison. I’m wondering how I should chose the best tyre pressure, what to look for etc. Their are some videos on RUclips off course, but I’d like to hear your point of view. I drive a Focus RS mk3, with 235/35R19 CUP 2’s. Thanks again!
Send an email to Michelin, their technical support is great. They will send you the suggested cold (to start with) and the hot tire pressures suitable for your car. If you want even more performance, I can recommend the Nankang AR-1. I got them on my GTI TCR in the same size. They got a way stiffer sidewall, which makes the handling and the feedback sharper. Also they can handle more heat and they last longer, due to the bigger contact patch. Downsides: they're pretty loud and in the wet you have to be really careful. For the AR-1, aim for 2,3 bars hot pressure, they'll stick like glue 🙈
Michelin advise not to start below 1.9 so we started there and got them up to target, which was stock for this test. I'd like to be doing more pressure testing in the future :)
Seeing lots of Supersport content here (for performance tyres at least) i would have a suggestion for a test, comes from a wide and present discussion. Yokohama just “updated” its widely love AD08R to the AD08RS. Some say the tire is getting way worse than the “old” one. Especially in the area of light sports cars Like the Eise to MX5 and probably up torwards the GT86, the Yokohama was the way to go really. So it would be very interesting to see a proper test of the AD08R vs AD08RS vs A052 (just for comparison). Especially for my Elise S1 the AD08R was the only way to go in terms of performance tyre if you wanted to stick with the factory 185/205mm front/rear width.
Please show us something older like a T1R vs a modern tyre so folk realise how far things have moved on. Or if possible something like a sport contact 2 vs. a 6. Could pop them on an RS Clio.
Please review the new Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 4, specifically in comparison to the previous generation AS3+ and Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06. Thanks!
@@ianshea9025 not really what Europe wants, we have the Pilot Sport 4 and Continental PremiumContact 6 summer tires. All Seasons are rare in Europe, even though Michelin popularised them a little bit with the CrossClimate.
I was always missing an direct comparison from you between the PS4, PS4S and, here it comes : the PSS. That would be really interesting to see for us poor 18 inch lads that can't fit 235/40/18 tyres because unfortunately that's the only 18 inch size the 4S is aviable in, so far at least (seriously michelin, cmon...). But anyway, awesome video as usual, keep it up mate!
Does it actually make sense to fit a Cup2 (Normal, C or even R?) on a stock M240i? I want that sharper feedback that the PSS and the 4S doesn’t offer even tho’ I’m just once or max twice a year on the Nordschleife doing normal tourist laps - nothing special. Cheers from Frankfurt, Alex
What's missing in review, some real slicks eg. hoosier's :), to stuck up against. I wonder what might they be closer in grip and in lasting past single quick lap, to C2 or C2R ..
Would be great to test and compare more economical track day tyres such as the Toyo R888R, Nankang AR-1, Yokohama ADVAN A052, Bridestone POTENZA RE-71R, EAGLE F1 SUPERCAR 3 to more expensive tyres like the Michelin Cup 2 Track Connect, and the Pirelli Trofeo R and a final comparison to a true slick tyre such as a Hoosier R7 or similar.
I have the Goodyear SC3 tires on my SS 1LE. They are awesome. I see 1.2g’s on on/off ramps. From I have read, they are just a tad behind the Cup 2 tires in grip, but they are more consistent and take heat better. I like Goodyear more over Michelin because they have stiffer sidewalls and have a more crisp turn-in. Also since Michelin used a bi-compound, the outer edges always wear out before the rest of the tire.
Really interesting video! Do you always use the tyre versions that are co-developed with the manufacturer (* or N-spec) or do you use the standard tyre? It also would be really interesting how manufacturing spec tyre and a standard spec tires compare
I was thinking the same - N0, N1, N2 - these manufacturer-spec tyres could be very different (even the compound) from a regular Cup 2 tyre, no? Do you have any info from Michelin on this?
Aren't there a limited number of heat cycles recommended on the R as well? Could make a huge difference if you're going to the track often but you won't there for many sessions each time or if you like to do many short sessions.
Is the Cup 2 sided? Im unable to to swap my tyres over Left to Right with my current ones and feel like I could get a few extra miles if able to swap them.
Is there any technological difference between the New and old Cup 2 ? And what means the „240“? In Germany it only calls „Cup 2 Connect“ without The 240.
What is the actual average wear life of the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres when being used for daily street-driven driving? That is normal highway/urban traffic driving... as well as some aggressive driving were the speed limit permits, etc. Some people are saying that they are lucky to get a few thousand miles/km's out of them? Is this true on average? Or can we get up to or more than 20,000kms out of them?
@@tyrereviews Thanks for your reply back... after doing the usual searches online, many people/websites never really give any firm answers for normal everyday street driving.
I just got four new tires but I've realized only two of them has the same production date. All in all they are 3 weekend apart. So my question is should I ask for two new tires to make sure they are the same as pair? The dealer says it doesn't matter. So do I just make my OCD shot up or should I insist I want another set?
@@tyrereviews I assume they are. The codes before the production date are the same on all four tires and it looks like this: AF7R D6NX. Btw it is Continental performance contact 6. But there is a longer code further towards center. This code is only the same on two of the tires. It looks like this: L-101815 S-238265 (S-238265). I assume this could be a production code? I don't know if you have a detailed video up on how to read all the information on tires. If not this may be a useful idea future video?
What is the difference between the N rated Cup 2 without rim protector and round walls and the non N rated with rim protector with flat walls? Can one mix them?
@@tyrereviews thank you for the response. I am a bit sad because I already fitted the NO in front and non N rated at the rears on my Megane RS. I hope it wont have a huge effect on the balance when I go for a spirited drive on the mountains.
I would love to see lap time comparison between cheaper road legal "semi slicks"/UHP tires VS either one of these Michelins. I can't believe how hard it is to find decent comparison. Basically this new R version seems to be bit over 1 sec/min faster. However, this would probably change depending on how smooth or rough pavement is, or what is track's AVG speed, how many hard braking zones there will be etc.?
When you talk about the one lap wonder performance, does that one lap only happen once in the life of the tyre (and you don't get it again unless you replace the tyres) or does it happen on the first lap of each run with the tyre (i.e. you can come back in, cool things off and then go out again on the same set of tyres)
![Michelin Pilot Sport 4S VS Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 - Compared on Track [*]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ls8YawSKIrQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Michelin Pilot Sport 4S VS Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 - Compared on Track [*]](/img/tr.png)
Win your Dream Car with BOTB. You only have to be 17 or over to enter! There's the chance to win a suitcase of £20,000 cash in the boot and they've just launched a new midweek comp so you now have two chances to win each week! Tickets start at just 85p. Enter here 👉 bit.ly/BOTB-Dream-Car-Comps
Mate, love your reviews but scale your charts properly by starting them at zero (in most cases). Cheers! www.chadskelton.com/2018/06/bar-charts-should-always-start-at-zero.html measuringu.com/graph-zero/
The issue is on a phone screen when you're talking about less than 1% difference sometimes, starting at zero is pointless as they all look the same :(
@@tyrereviews thank you for a great review.
I'm getting a BMW M2 CS soon which comes with the Cup2's all round.
I probably will never take it to track. What tyres would you recommend for better longevity and economics?
Many thanks in advance
What is the rolling resistance of Cup 2 & 2 R tyres
It seems the dry lap times didn't render into the video for some reason, sorry!
The average times were Cup 2, 73.1, Cup 2 R, 71.8.
The Laps
Cup 2: 65
, 64.8, 64.7, 65.1
Cup 2 R: 63.2
, 64.1, 64.2, 64.4
This is what i saw as well on BIC GP configuration, i have seen 3-4 seconds advantage for the CUP2Rs over CUP2s. Keep in mind that is around a 2:10 lap time. So around 1:30 lap the difference would be around 2 seconds like you saw.
Awesome, that seems to be a good trace. Michelin actually tested at Silverstone GP and found 3 seconds and Brands GP and found 2.5, so everything seems to add up.
@@tyrereviews How many laps of Nordschleife you reckon the 2Rs could do until worn out? Using say that gt3rs?
@@JuhaEerikki I think I've seen 8-12 mentioned of the R, and ~40 of the Cup 2
@@tyrereviews oh wow, more than I expected! 😃 And the ratio speaks volumes too. Thank you for your kind reply, fantastic channel! 😃
We need to retest ALL CARS FROM LAST 20 years BECAUSE OF the tire technology progress! For example the old C6Z06 will be almost 6-7 second faster around a decent size track. Nurburgring will probably be 10sec or more!
I couldn't agree more with this assessment of the Cup 2s. I use them on my daily in a Mediterranean climate, where winter isn't heavy with rain. I have to add, that the consistency of the tyre over the full course of its life is extremely consistent. It offers almost as much grip towards the end as it does at the start of its life - at least on public roads. I never had such a consistent and great performing tyre.
Great information :)
how many miles d oyou get from a set of cup 2's
@@thesoloadventure5958 I've done nearly 30,000 km, and they're getting towards the end. I should mention I don't drive them hard - on average - and they've only been moderately tracked once for a couple of hours. I'd say 30,000 km is a rough estimate of what you can expect out of the tyres, if you don't hammer them.
I couldn’t agree more!!! Outstanding tyre!! My first choice as well
Who has an absolute normal car and watches this for no good reason?
Yep. At most I'd get a ps4s thanks to him but I can't possibly make the most of a RS4, Re71r or Cup tire on even a hatchback.
Mostly everyone, auto racing is expensive as fuck and theres no way around that. 4 set of these tires are like $3000 more or less
@@mappy-5934 Not sure what you're driving. Last I checked a set of Cup 2 R is closer to 6 grand for three sets.
Looking for new tires for my 96 Camry
I use cup 2’s on the front of my daily Skoda 😂
I watch this for a reason.
Those drone shots with the car coming out of the bottom of the frame are stunning.
Another great comparo! I run the Cup 2 for a couple seasons now and love it. I actually came here because I have FOMO with the Cup 2R. Your comments towards the end are great for us Cup 2 consumers.
I've always wondered how the Toyo Proxes R888-R compares to the PilotSport Cup 2, have you or may you do a review on those for comparison?
FANTASTIC stuff man... You are the absolute bar when it comes to information on tires! Keep it upppp! 😎🔥
I'll e doing a bigger test with Cup 2 vs others in the future :)
@@tyrereviews YESSSSSSS!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!
I'm just about looking to pull the trigger on those R888-Rs, and I'd really like to see how they compare...
Again man, hands down, no content exists anywhere that can even come close to comparing the level of detail, the amount of unbiased opinion, or the sheer level of both quality and quantity of the tires you have reviewed.
Thank you for all that you do!!
@@juancarlosathome101 Thanks man, really appreciated :)
Ad08r/rs, r888r and nankang ar-1 would be a good test. Puts tyres into a lot more trackday groups then as you can get then in much smaller fitments for clios, imprezas etc. I'd like to see the accelera 651 sport tested as well as that's meant to be a solid tyre now
About to try Cup 2R. I have a HSV VF GTS auto with 586kw at the rear wheels. Been using Pilot Sport 4S for roll racing and they have been hooking up (suprisingly) really well. Just upgraded my differential from the standard 3.2 ratio to a 3.7 ratio and expecting the Sport 4S to no longer cut it. See how the Cup 2R goes.
Great content as always.
I'd love to see more common trackday size comparassion. For example: 265/35/18
- Trofeo R
- Direzza 03g
- Nankan AR1
- Federal FZ-201
- Cup 2
- Yokohama A052 :)
Working on it :)
I would love to see this VS Nankang AR1 or Hankook Z221, or Yokohama A050.
Yes i agree, i will like to see a mid track budget tyre comparaison and a low budget track tire
Maybe some ad08r thrown in for a budget spec
The first two is very much on par. The Yoko falls behind.
@@AB-80X No. The A052 will wipe all the others including the Cup 2. It may be the best trackday tire out there. It has all the street tire class time attack lap records in the US. Not even the RE71R could beat it. The cup 2 was measurably slower. I would love to see how it fares to a Cup 2R and R888R and maybe a BFG Rival.
@@AB-80X you are incorrect. The AR1 is essentially a 100TW Enduro tyre. Whilst it is a high performing tyre it’s nowhere near the level of Hankook Z221 TDs or Advan A050s. (Not A052s). This has been proven everywhere in Australia especially at time attack events and hill climbs. Even the new Bridgestone RE71RS’s are faster than Nankang AR1s
Thanks Jonathan!! Really looking forward to watching this video. For me, Michelin really do make the best tyres! A very close second is Goodyear. Continental and Pirelli don't come close in my opinion. (V8 RWD Sedan with 630rwhp)
Hope you enjoy it!
991.2 gt3rs not 992
Embarrassing mistake due to rushing, sorry! :'(
Tyre Reviews we all know what you meant
I'd like to see on the skoda a comparison of a general all season tire vs the cup 2. A sort of what happened when you put racing tires on the family car.
Happy holidays!!!
Great suggestion!
Awaits the “your tee shirt is too tight” comments! Sod the haters these videos are great and help me chose what tyres to get
your tee shirt is too tight
Actually would like to know what his diet/workout regimen is like to stay in shape like that.
@@meebs99 try his IG. I think he made it to a fitness magazine. Maybe he could do the next review shirtless to silence the haters.
I don't do track days so I'll stick to my Pilot Sport 4S for wet weather reasons. Wish I had the resources to experience what you do... I enjoy all your reviews, Thanks.
The PS4S is surprisingly good on track too!
Another great watch! Appreciate the content 😊
Much appreciated!
Nice review. I'd like to see a review of the new Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4. Apparently they perform as well as a summer tire?
I can't wait to test them!
Great video; I am stoked for the future Cup 2 Connect video!
I can't wait to test!
Tyre Reviews hopefully they give you a M2 CS to rip around on for that test!
@@curtr.5083 The question has been asked :) If not, it'll be a job for my M3!
Id like to see more long term track tire testing as im poor and can only afford to purchase one set tires a season
I did a calculation of the Cup2 R's longitudinal deceleration during the braking test and came up with a figure of 1.29 g's, amazing that your eyeballs weren't pulled out of their sockets when you hit the brakes on that car with those tires.
That's AVERAGE right? I'm sure I saw 1.4g as peak!
@@tyrereviews Yes, that was an average over the 43.55 meter braking distance. You might need to start wearing fighter pilot g-suits if you're going to be doing such high g manouvers on these tire tests😁
Great video, I have cup 2’s on my car and I’m itching to get back out on track to test them. A video on how to decide optimum track pressures would be great as so many people run them too high and end up with overheating/blistering
Definitely something I want to do :)
Great, review! I am looking for a tire that can perform on the track and take me home safely. Pilot Sport Cup 2 it is!
By the way, my car is the 992 Turbo S, and the only N-rated tires so far I could find are the Pirelli P-Zero it came with. I tested them on the track last week, but felt I could have done much better times with better suited tires. I know the subject has been discussed in many forums, but I would be really very interested in hearing your expert opinion on this - using non-N rated Cup-2's on a car like that
Lovely bloke, very knowledgeable and easy to listen to for me and very easy to watch for my wife 👀
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have a Mk1 Focus RS running 380bhp on standard rims (225/40r18). It does less than 1,000 mile a year, no track use but the odd show in the summer. I had Toyo R1R's fitted and they were fantastic although they look to be discontinued so I went for the R888R and they drone like mud tyres on a land rover! I'm tempted to give some Michelins a try next unless you could recommend anything more suitable?
Great content!
Thomas I have a mk2 focus rs had conti contact 3 on changed to the Goodyear f1 supersports, wow fantastic tyre,never had ps4s so I can't compare, check out the reviews, you wouldn't be disappointed with the f1 supersports that's for sure ,great in wet and dry,probably to good for how I drive it probably should of gone asymmetric 5 tbh
Jonathan your comment about impressing your girlfriend with high-G braking reminded me of the famous Top Gear episode where they tried to impress teenage girls with handbrake turns. Maybe I made a bad choice but my missus get annoyed if I exceed 4000 rpm in my 986S cos “it’s just noisy and uncomfortable”!
Haha that was a great episode, I might watch that tonight!
Good video as usual, changing tyre level, it would be interesting to see the differences on dry and wet of sport vs touring tyres, so something like Primacy 4 vs Pilot Sport 4 and/or Goodyear EfficientGrip 2 vs Eagle F1 Asy 5
Great suggestion! I'll see what I can do
@@tyrereviews Yeah, something I want to see as well. Often both tires are available and it's hard to choose for a family car : the touring tyre is probably more comfortable, but by how much? While the sport tyre is probably safer, but by how much?
I want safety and comfort and I really have a harde time choosing! :)
Great comparison! Love these tires on my GT350
It's a dirty job testing all those tires in a Porsche GT3 RS but somebody has to do it.
Seriously, thanks Jonathan for interesting and informative tests you've been doing on the Michelin tires. I've made the decision to replace my PS4S tires on my 370Z with the PSC2 next time I change tires, in good measure based on your observations on the performances of these various Michelin tires.
Amazing, let me know how they are!
@tyrereviews old comment, but imagine if the C7 Corvette ZR1 had Cup 2 R tires instead of regular Cup 2s. The Mercedes AMG GT Black Series is just 250ms quicker around VIR Grand Course with its Cup 2 R tires and the ZR1 is slightly faster than the 911 GT2 RS while it uses Cup 2 Rs
Again a very nice video. My god that car sounds like an angel.
I would very much like a test with energy saving tires. Tires for BEV and so.
Keep up the superb work
Working on it :)
Love these reviews...from the extreme high performance tyres like these to the more mundane everyday stuff...I always recommend anyone I know ,whose thinking of putting shitty budgets on to check out your reviews...so many people who just see their car as a mode of transport think a tyre is a tyre is a tyre, and buy on price alone, unfortunately...also, I reckon there should be some form of insurance discount if you fit decent tyres
An insurance discount would be amazing!
BRAVO !! Love what your doing. I have the 4s's on my '18 ZL1/1LE an they were my tire of choice when the factory Goodyear's went south. I ran a back to back lap times at HPR (Colorado) of 2:08, not bad for not touching the car , alignment an such.Curious how the Bridgestone RE71R fare , in the mix? Presently looking for a strictly Track Day tire, leaning towards the Factory Goodyears. Keep up the good / fun work, im jealous
HMF
I'd really like to test the RE71R
Recommending the Pilot Sport Cup in any flavor to the average motorist is not exactly the best choice. Also dry track times?
It seems the dry lap times didn't render into the video for some reason, sorry!
The average times were Cup 2, 73.1, Cup 2 R, 71.8.
The Laps
Cup 2: 65, 64.8, 64.7, 65.1
Cup 2 R: 63.2, 64.1, 64.2, 64.4
You'll have to do the new Pilot Sport Cup 2 Connect against both of them now!
Agreed :)
Really helpful review thank you. I have you tested the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT CUP 2 CONNECT versus the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT CUP 2 R please? I would be interested in your thoughts?
Great video and thank you! keep up the good work!!
Thanks for watching!
If you are lucky enough to run a 285-19/335-20 combo, the cup 2 ZP is a big step over the 'regular' cup2.
Federal 595 RS-R vs NanKang NS2-r and Toyo R888R
Would be interesting to see the porformance differance between these tyres and a real competition tyre.
Years ago every one raved about yoki r32's & 38's.
If you then fitted a inter, like Dunlop X12 you were off the brakes and back on the throttle, when braking for the same corner. The differance was somthing like 1 1/2 seconds a stage mile in wet conditions, in the dry it was 2+ seconds
With a 180 bhp peugeot 205. Or a mk1 golf with the same sort of power
I'll add it to the list :)
Would love to see the Cup 2 Connect in the near future 👏
Working on it, most likely next year now though
Thanks for this! I imagine a Slick tyre actually wouldn't set any much faster time than the Cup 2 R but it is able to repeat it more often when set up right. Are there any plans on comparing street and racing tires at this point?
I'd love to sometime :)
@@tyrereviews That would be epic!
"Show off to a mate" - Yes okay
"Show off to a Girl" - ummmm she wouldnt be interested in tyres. Atleast mine is not. :P
Lucky are the one's who have that :D
Awesome review. hoping for more content soon
If you step on the brakes and generate 1.4g she'll be impressed (and / or annoyed)
Tyre Reviews more likely annoyed. I know.
I just saw on the Michelin USA site that the cup 2r is available for the TLX type S. It would be fun to see how much more bonkers this tire is compared to the normal tires on that car. Track tire on a sport sedan... Let's find out 😁
I love these videos!
Great review as always 👍
Could you please please test sport contact 7 vs Cup 2 cannot find any comparisons anywhere. Now tech street vs old tech track tire.
Great comparison as always. Keen to see how the Pilot Sport Cup 2 and Pilot Sport Cup 2 Connect compare when you get that opportunity! I've read that the Connect variant also has sensors built into the tyres to take data on the roll, is that meant to be their defining difference from the Sport Cup 2 or do you expect performance differences on track as well?
There's improvement in dry grip and wear for the cup 2 connect :)
What you say about the new Track Connect being longer lasting is not entirely trye. Michelin has actually made two different types of Track Connect Cup 2 tyres. One features the regular Cup 2 compounds and the normal 180 wear rating, while there's a new version featuring a 240 tread waer and harder compound This latter tyre slots in between the MPS4S and regular Cup 2. Some refer to the new Cup 2 as the Cup 2 240. Tread wear ratings goes as follows.
MPS4S: 300
Cup 2 "240": 240
Cup 2/Cup 2 Track Connect: 180
Cup 2 R: 140
Michelin have made this super confusing for us. We're calling the Cup 2 Track connect the cup 2.5, but don't get it confused with the other Cup 2 Track connect which isn't the new compound
I have a Widebody hellcat and looking to upgrade the tires. I found a good deal on a set of Michelin Cup 2 R tires 305/35/20. I am an intermediate driver with the Porsche and BMW clubs. Would you expect these tires to last 5+ track days or do they really only have one session of life?
love to see a test between Cup 2 and Cup 2 Connect please
If you're talking the regular Connect there's no difference. What he failed to mention is that there are two versions of the Connect. There's one which is the normal Cup 2, but with the Connect feature. But along side that, Michelin has released a new Cup 2 Connect called the Cup 2 Connect 240. This is a Cup 2 with a harder compound that slots in between the MPS4S and Cup 2. Some also refer to it as the Cup 2 "Sport". So now there are actually three compounds in the Cup to range. From hard to soft.
Cup 2 240
Cup 2
Cup 2 R
Be aware of this if you're looking into using the Connect shoes.
Would love to see a test of the cheaper range of track day tyres, nankang, advan, accelera etc would be great to see!
Working on it :)
Deg by session vs lap would be helpful. I’ve heard both cup2 and 2R get quick deg after two or three sessions. Interested in this at your level of driving
I'll keep in mind for next time :)
I love the cup2, great performance on road and nordschleife😎
It would be great to see the Nankang AR1and Toyo R888r brought into the comparison with the Cup 2 and Goodyear tyres considering the Nankang and Toyo tyres are a very common sight on track days.
Working on it :)
"show off to a girl..." @ 11:15 LOL.
What was the weight diff between this 2? Good vid thanks
Can you test the Yokohama Advan AD08R against Dunlop Direzza Z3 and Michelin PS4S?
Hi Mate, I need ure opinion. i d like to buy 2 Tires, 2x 335 30 20, but i can t get desicion which s the best tires 4 my car, (Turbo S-650hp;)
2x Michelin Pilot Super Sport N0 or Michelin Pilot Sport PS2?
i ll be happy about ure answer and recommend ;) Greetings from Germany
SuperSports for sure, they replaced the PS2 :)
@@tyrereviews Thank you for information ;) I bought allready 2x SS Supersport N0 tires from Ebay a few min. ago :)) Thanx again :))
gj michelin. i felt in love in them. i now not trust pirelli, not like nokian, angry to dunlop. But in love to michelin and bridgestone
What about p-zero corsa instead of trofeo, are there much difference?
For your comments Pirelli sound like the more suitable for me, furthermore I want to switch from Michelin due to the big problems I had in other cars and it’s always the same, it’s like the outside of the tire get loose
I need to test the corsa properly
Great review! I would love to get the Cup 2 R... but I guess I will stay with the Cup 2 because of it's everyday drive capability. By the way, I've driven the Cup 2 over the Alps lately... ENDLESS GRIP!!!
In summer I hope!!
@@tyrereviews xD
Michelin rules !!! Big fan
Could you review the Cup 2 vs the Cup 2 (240)
Awesome video again! Looking forward for new content :)
Thanks for the awesome comparison. I’m wondering how I should chose the best tyre pressure, what to look for etc. Their are some videos on RUclips off course, but I’d like to hear your point of view. I drive a Focus RS mk3, with 235/35R19 CUP 2’s. Thanks again!
Hey :) We generally aim for stock hot pressures so we started around .3bar down for this
Send an email to Michelin, their technical support is great. They will send you the suggested cold (to start with) and the hot tire pressures suitable for your car.
If you want even more performance, I can recommend the Nankang AR-1. I got them on my GTI TCR in the same size.
They got a way stiffer sidewall, which makes the handling and the feedback sharper. Also they can handle more heat and they last longer, due to the bigger contact patch.
Downsides: they're pretty loud and in the wet you have to be really careful.
For the AR-1, aim for 2,3 bars hot pressure, they'll stick like glue 🙈
Chris#55 , thanks for the tip!
Another great watch. Would be great if you can tell us something about the recommended tire pressures (cold and warm) on the .3RS 😉
Michelin advise not to start below 1.9 so we started there and got them up to target, which was stock for this test. I'd like to be doing more pressure testing in the future :)
Seeing lots of Supersport content here (for performance tyres at least) i would have a suggestion for a test, comes from a wide and present discussion.
Yokohama just “updated” its widely love AD08R to the AD08RS. Some say the tire is getting way worse than the “old” one. Especially in the area of light sports cars Like the Eise to MX5 and probably up torwards the GT86, the Yokohama was the way to go really. So it would be very interesting to see a proper test of the AD08R vs AD08RS vs A052 (just for comparison). Especially for my Elise S1 the AD08R was the only way to go in terms of performance tyre if you wanted to stick with the factory 185/205mm front/rear width.
Working on it :)
Please show us something older like a T1R vs a modern tyre so folk realise how far things have moved on. Or if possible something like a sport contact 2 vs. a 6. Could pop them on an RS Clio.
Great idea!
Would love to see a smaller size track tyre comparison in the future if possible man. Size 15s and 16s would be sweet
Working on it :)
@@tyrereviews my man ✌🏼
I always show off to my mates with my quarter million euro car and the 2Rs :p
Please review the new Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 4, specifically in comparison to the previous generation AS3+ and Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06. Thanks!
Those are North American market specific,so don't expect too much as he is in Europe.
@@dufonrafal Thanks, I wasn't aware these are NA market specific. They're missing out on some great tires!
@@ianshea9025 not really what Europe wants, we have the Pilot Sport 4 and Continental PremiumContact 6 summer tires.
All Seasons are rare in Europe, even though Michelin popularised them a little bit with the CrossClimate.
I'm actually hoping to get to the US later this year to test some of these things :)
I was always missing an direct comparison from you between the PS4, PS4S and, here it comes : the PSS. That would be really interesting to see for us poor 18 inch lads that can't fit 235/40/18 tyres because unfortunately that's the only 18 inch size the 4S is aviable in, so far at least (seriously michelin, cmon...). But anyway, awesome video as usual, keep it up mate!
I have PSS* vs PS4S coming in a few weeks!
@@tyrereviews You. Are. The. Man. You are the man. I'm so looking forward to this!
Nice tyres
Does it actually make sense to fit a Cup2 (Normal, C or even R?) on a stock M240i? I want that sharper feedback that the PSS and the 4S doesn’t offer even tho’ I’m just once or max twice a year on the Nordschleife doing normal tourist laps - nothing special.
Cheers from Frankfurt, Alex
Amazing exsos sound on this car..
What's missing in review, some real slicks eg. hoosier's :), to stuck up against. I wonder what might they be closer in grip and in lasting past single quick lap, to C2 or C2R ..
I will try when I get to america :)
Would be great to test and compare more economical track day tyres such as the Toyo R888R, Nankang AR-1, Yokohama ADVAN A052, Bridestone POTENZA RE-71R, EAGLE F1 SUPERCAR 3 to more expensive tyres like the Michelin Cup 2 Track Connect, and the Pirelli Trofeo R and a final comparison to a true slick tyre such as a Hoosier R7 or similar.
Working on it for sure :)
I have the Goodyear SC3 tires on my SS 1LE. They are awesome. I see 1.2g’s on on/off ramps.
From I have read, they are just a tad behind the Cup 2 tires in grip, but they are more consistent and take heat better.
I like Goodyear more over Michelin because they have stiffer sidewalls and have a more crisp turn-in. Also since Michelin used a bi-compound, the outer edges always wear out before the rest of the tire.
Could you do a test with Nankang NS2Rs and equal tires for hatchbacks. Please!
Working on it :)
I use up one set of rear cup 2 tires per summer. One set of front cup 2 tires per 2 summers. Lol
And I drive cup 2 in snow lol. Sometimes.
Brave!
Really interesting video! Do you always use the tyre versions that are co-developed with the manufacturer (* or N-spec) or do you use the standard tyre? It also would be really interesting how manufacturing spec tyre and a standard spec tires compare
In this case you can only get OE tyres, but I have a video coming on this soon!
Tyre Reviews Im really looking forward to this video!
I was thinking the same - N0, N1, N2 - these manufacturer-spec tyres could be very different (even the compound) from a regular Cup 2 tyre, no? Do you have any info from Michelin on this?
Great video!would you rate AD08R over cup2 for track days and every day use in a M2.
I believe the Cup 2 has the edge in the wet so better for every day use
Video on budget/ middle of road track tyres and track tyres in 225 40 17 as the average track goer is running smaller tyres and doesn't own a Porsche
Aren't there a limited number of heat cycles recommended on the R as well? Could make a huge difference if you're going to the track often but you won't there for many sessions each time or if you like to do many short sessions.
I've not seen any official stats, sorry!
Is the Cup 2 sided? Im unable to to swap my tyres over Left to Right with my current ones and feel like I could get a few extra miles if able to swap them.
No they're not, you can swap them side to side
Is there any technological difference between the New and old Cup 2 ?
And what means the „240“? In Germany it only calls „Cup 2 Connect“ without The 240.
Yes, the new one has updated compound, it should really be cup 2.5
Jeez I'd love to try that 2R round my local track. Shame, I doubt we will ever see them in 18's.
I've heard rumours but I wouldn't hold your breath :(
@@tyrereviews I won't, but thanks again for another great review. Awesome work Sir.
Looking forward to the Cup 2 vs Trofeo R
Me too!
You legend (again)!
Thank you!
Any plans on testing the Cup 2 Connects any time soon?
Working on it :)
Hey Mate What do you think for Pirelli P Zero Corsa Direzionale?
2x 255 35 20 front its better than conti s or goodyear f1?
I believe they're a little better in the dry, but the conti / goodyear will be much better in the wet
What is the actual average wear life of the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres when being used for daily street-driven driving? That is normal highway/urban traffic driving... as well as some aggressive driving were the speed limit permits, etc. Some people are saying that they are lucky to get a few thousand miles/km's out of them? Is this true on average? Or can we get up to or more than 20,000kms out of them?
I'm not sure i've seen anyone get 20k out of a set. Maybe 10 at a push!
@@tyrereviews Thanks for your reply back... after doing the usual searches online, many people/websites never really give any firm answers for normal everyday street driving.
I just got four new tires but I've realized only two of them has the same production date. All in all they are 3 weekend apart. So my question is should I ask for two new tires to make sure they are the same as pair? The dealer says it doesn't matter. So do I just make my OCD shot up or should I insist I want another set?
Assuming they're from the same factory, at that close there will be zero differences :)
@@tyrereviews I assume they are. The codes before the production date are the same on all four tires and it looks like this: AF7R D6NX. Btw it is Continental performance contact 6. But there is a longer code further towards center. This code is only the same on two of the tires. It looks like this: L-101815 S-238265 (S-238265). I assume this could be a production code? I don't know if you have a detailed video up on how to read all the information on tires. If not this may be a useful idea future video?
@@jwester7009 You'll have to speak to conti about that code, it will likely be unique to them
What is the difference between the N rated Cup 2 without rim protector and round walls and the non N rated with rim protector with flat walls? Can one mix them?
Usually no, there's a lot of changes for N rating
@@tyrereviews thank you for the response. I am a bit sad because I already fitted the NO in front and non N rated at the rears on my Megane RS. I hope it wont have a huge effect on the balance when I go for a spirited drive on the mountains.
What about cup 2 r vs a Carrera cup control slick to see just how far it is off a proper motorsport tyre
I'll speak to Michelin :)
Would there be a possibility to do a classic car tyre test? Maybe Porsche can borrow you an F model 911 😁
If you could arrange that... :D
@@tyrereviews For sure, I've got Porsche on speed dial!
They just never pick up the phone. 🤣😂
Great review !
My question is, where thas the cup 2 connect sits regarding the cup 2 and the cup 2 R ?
Will find out soon. It should be a little better than the Cup 2
@@tyrereviews please give us a test with cup2 cup2 connect & cup2 R or even Cup2 & Cup2 connect only. Thanks
@@deltaevo5190 It's in planning for spring next year
I would love to see lap time comparison between cheaper road legal "semi slicks"/UHP tires VS either one of these Michelins. I can't believe how hard it is to find decent comparison. Basically this new R version seems to be bit over 1 sec/min faster. However, this would probably change depending on how smooth or rough pavement is, or what is track's AVG speed, how many hard braking zones there will be etc.?
And one very interesting comparison would be this R tyre VS real slicks. How much diffence there is anymore?
Working on it :)
@@tyrereviews which one or both 😬
@@oo.llpee.7457 Both :) Slick vs street is hopefully a thing for next year and track day test vs cheaper ones will be an M3 things
I put the 2 R on my 2023 ferrari SF90 Spider. I could tell the difference.
When you talk about the one lap wonder performance, does that one lap only happen once in the life of the tyre (and you don't get it again unless you replace the tyres) or does it happen on the first lap of each run with the tyre (i.e. you can come back in, cool things off and then go out again on the same set of tyres)
You'll get some performance back for another run on the Cup 2 R, but never the tultimate grip
Dear legend, Cup 2 N2, Cup 2 R and Cup 2 Connect please. Need to get a replacement set for my GT3 RS.
Working on it :)
Please test Cup 2 vs Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport or if you think there is a better matchup please do that.
Cup 2 vs SuperSport R :) It's PS4S vs SuperSport