Which Cut-Off Blade is Best? Diamond or Abrasive
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Which one is better? A diamond metal cut off wheel, or a standard abrasive disk cut off wheel? Today we find out!
I've got a few tests to run on each blade. For comparison today we are using a Lenox Metal Max 4.5" and a CGW Camel 4.5" Quickie Cut. I'll be testing for speed of the cut on different thicknesses of steel and aluminum, longevity, loudness, safety, cost, dust output, thickness, and more. I'll be using the same Dewalt 4.5" angle grinder on both blades for consistency.
WD40 Contest Link: bit.ly/2LYfzZp
Lenox: amzn.to/32RAkvd
Camel: This is the closest I could find on Amazon: amzn.to/2JQWPbX
But the part number I use is CGW Camel UPC#45141 and I get them locally at Valley Wholesale in Knoxville.
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I keep both in my tool box. When I’m in the middle of a project and inevitably run out of abrasive wheels I grab the diamond to finish it up. They are loud and take longer but it saves me from a trip to the store in the middle of working on something. Worth having one on hand for that reason alone.
I would go with the metal as it is safer as no chance of it breaking up into pieces. Also has less poisonous fumes. I am more concerned about safety than speed.
I did the same, new angle grindee user so i bought the metal blade, but the cuts are coming out rough and jagged despite letting the grinder do the work and applying minimal pressure
@@fishertech I also find the cuts need grinding after and that is with the metal blade or the one that stinks and could break up. I just now bought a Plasma cutter as I was still not happy with anything the angle grinder does.
As long as you aren’t one of those that likes to remove the guard, even breaking abrasive blades are pretty safe.
@@jdwylde7 I leave the guard on and I did not know that breaking abrasive blades was verily safe. Thanks for the info
@@erwinerwin1245 I’m not following. What do you mean “verily safe”?
Honestly I frame metal studs for a living and have used both blades extensively. In my experience the metal blade will cut better on a corded grinder or the 60v dewalt grinder since the rpms are much higher, also using less pressure and letting the blade do the work will make huge difference in both applications especially the diamond blade because too much pressure on the blade will cause it to burnout much faster and become dull, similar to a drill bit. I’d recommend the diablo steel demon over both of these. It blows these two blades out of the water in cut quality and speed
Matt, you really love pleasuring us! XD ty for the lower volumes, that is definitely appreciated =)
lol, lots of pleasure here!
Never hurry while working with power tools, take the time necessary for safety.
Great skills.
I've used both. They both work well. I would have to agree with you. They are both good for the right application, depending on the job. I’ll keep both in my tool box. Great video and thanks for sharing.
I only do occasional cuts, and I've had the same metal blade for many many years.. it's always good to know that you have a blade when you need one, even if it's slower it still does the job
Thanks Matt for doing the homework for us! ❤️🐞
Spent Monday night watching grinder disc video. My wife thinks I am crazy. Oh well. 😎
She's your wife, she knew what she signed uo for lmao. If you didn't review before you buy you'd have a lot more tools your don't use lol
Perfect video - exactly what I was looking for.
Our job is the testing of abrasives and you covered most of the criteria, well done. 3 very important ones remained:
1. Material vs abrasive: Diamond = 100% carbon. Using diamond on metal, you get carbon transfer. You increase the carbon content of whatever you are cutting = bad bad bad! If you know anything about metal you would know that a higher carbon content means a harder and more brittle steel. Not recommended if you are complying with safety standards.
2. Heat: Diamonds can get blunt. The discs might advertise many cuts in its lifetime, but after only a few cuts, the diamonds blunt and you are actually just melting through the material, not cutting anyone. You would ask why this is an issue... the next point explains why. Lastly on this point, do not use it on stainless steel. Heat distortion and cross-contamination will break the chrome bond that makes stainless steel and cause rust. Big no-no!
3. Machine wear: You would know that brushes and armatures are expensive. You are cutting slower because you have such high drag and friction cutting metal with metal (coated with diamond). Hard vs hard is not great. This increased friction puts enormous amounts of strain on your machine. If you do 20 to 30 cuts in a row with a 700-900W machine, you'll start smelling something burning...maybe some smoke. Not the greatest if you can do 400 cuts with a disc but you need to buy 2 machines to do them.
Do these tests and find out for yourself.
Happy testing guys!
Beautiful test !
I rarely cut heavy guage metal, but do cut 24 guage sheet metal on a daily basis. The metal blades are awesome as the tend to last a lot longer and in our field breaking blades is aggravating often avoidable but it happens often. Thanks for the great video I'll stick to metal for day to day and stock abrasives for the rare heavy guage we use for time to time welding repairs.
They may last a tad longer, but just look at how much more they cost. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.
@@MFKR696 yeah but on an average job I burn through about 4 abrasive disks. Some situations yes you are correct, my scenario may be a little different than others. Have had the same metal disk for about three weeks, just now feeling like its wearing. Light guage metal hands down I'll stick with it.
@@lionelhernandez34 Fair enough. However, with sheet metal, you'd probably have more luck buying carbide circular-saw metal cutting blades, as they'll have no problem blasting through sheet metal. Those diamond-abrasives are cool and all, but they can't cut any metal as fast as one of those circ-blades will, and they'll probably last you longer than a diamond-abrasive will if you choose the right ones.
Regardless, I'm not here to tell you what to do. Just use what you like. If it gets the job done cost-effectively, there's nothing wrong with it. For cutting hot-rolled steel or pipe of any thickness, though, I'll stick with my carbide chop-saw. It makes the cleanest cuts I've ever achieved with a chop-saw, and they last damn-near forever if you treat them right and don't over-heat them.
Thanks for post example of what I was looking for
the part # 80178 CGW Camel Aluminum Oxide Cut Off Wheels 4-1/2" X .045" X 7/8" 80178.
Thanks for all you do .....
I only work mettle as a hobby so I use the lenox. It's even on my little 6 inch chop saw. Perfect for the backyard hobby guy who just thinks something up and makes it.
All the abrasive cut off wheels I use are .045 Dewalt and they really work great.
As always great video
I use them to cut tire beads after cutting the carcass with a Freud Diabla carbide tooth recip saw blade (which are insanely wonderful but tend to heat up on bead wire which like most cable is best cut using abrasives). They don't replace abrasive disks (I use 6" abrasive discs and modded my small angle grinder guards to match) but are absolutely worth owning.
Another great vid!
Excellent comparison test of both wheels. Heat buildup would be another factor to consider. I imagine the metal blade taking longer would generate more heat.
You should make a video of the cheap blades exploding. For the diamond blade, I’ve only used them for tile or concrete.
Very good comparison.
Think both is the best option there Matt. Lenox for thin and the Camel for thicker
The only way I can see to make this a realistic (fair) test is to start with a new Lennox blade and keep burning through abrasive blades until the abrasives cut faster than the Lennox. Assuming a new Lennox is faster. Then compare the price of all of the abrasive blades against the cost of a single Lennox. If the abrasives cut faster from the first disk than the test is over. If not than you'd need to see if the Lennox is cost/time effective. $.02 It sounds like Matt would walk a mile for a Camel though...
sounds like a very expensive exhaustive test that doesnt need to be done
Awesome video mate, used both them many times to cut up cars
The carbon wheel works better in tight spots because it’s better at cutting off flush.
Think if you weld a post on a piece of plate. With the flat disc you have to angle the grinder. With a recessed cup you can keep the grinder more parallel with the plate for a flush cut.
Norton makes some with the arbor. Can cut completely flush which can save time and work when you have to weld the piece back in when you are done.
Fwiw I work with welders on a daily basis who typically purchase their own equipment. In 15+ years with hundreds of welders across the country I haven’t seen a single guy with a diamond wheel.
I keep a stack of the carbon ones in varying sizes for my self. Every once in a while I’ll lend out a grinder to someone. I try to send it with a 1/8” wheel. It’s thick enough to not grenade but still cuts decent. I don’t have to worry about it slicing their face open if it comes apart or kicks.
For the hobbiest-the diamond is probably the way to go.
Excellent video 👍
When it comes to sound
1 decibel is isn't all that's going on 1 decibel is 1/3 louder which is actually a lot.
I always recommend people researching sound it's actually very complicated how loud something is compared to something else lol.
Basically a decibel meter does not tell it all it tells very little just how much pressure is being produced on the microphone
Indeed. Decibels are measured on a Logarithmic scale.
@@odd-ended I'd have to agree with this, because there is no way that a grinder cutting metal is only 76 db. If it were there would be no need for hearing protection.
I got the diamond cut offs from Bad Dog. Expensive but they have a lifetime warranty. When they get dull you send them back and get another one free.
Nice! Just checked them out thought they were crazy for the price then I saw they cut and grind/sand. Know what my next splurge purchase will be!
Lays Potato Chips and a Dr Pepper. Yup, Matt is back in the shop!
I have a lennox that was given to me as a sample. I never use it. I do save it just in case. I don't like the vibration it has. Makes you work harder to stay on your line. This combined with taking longer to cut fatigues you faster. Of course we shear up to 16ga. and burn lots on a plasma table.
The advantage of Lenox metal blades have more application such as cutting plastic,composite,stone,etc.
Great honest comparison. The steel wheel actally last forever. becuase you will only use it for back up. On thin stuff cuts decent enough seem loud in my opinion. The dust difference is huge though. I prefer the narrow kerf Diablo blades never used one you tested. Diablo is easily found locally for me. Very good Video
I tried to use a diablo blade once to cut 1/4" thick steel and it took FOREVER!
Ill stick with sait abrasives discs and resi discs. Best quality out there. Ive used lennox brand before and its not that good. But im interested in the wheel. I would get great use from that with all the cutting i do. But being it leaves a lot of clean up and ya have to swap wheels again. While with abrasive you cut and grind at the same time.
how do the metal ones compare in heat transfer? When youre cutting with the abrasive disc they can transfer a lot of heat.
With the abrasive on the thin first cut you could see the abrasive dust front it shaking mine do that and sometimes breaks or crumble the edge. I still think I'd rather buy the lenox blade it doesn't shrink, it may be slower but I don't care. I spend a lot in cut off wheels
cool video, thanks for the info :)
Should have used a new blade. The cut off wheel was new right?
Yes but the Lenox blades do not wear and dull out like the abrasive disk or other metal cutting blades do. They can make thousands of cuts before you notice any difference in cutting performance. So in other words I’m sure it was as good as new, no need to use a brand new one.
The packaging says it last 1000 cuts so I wanted to see how it performs after 500 cuts. If it does well new but then dulls after 10 cuts that would defeat the purpose of the test and of buying a more expensive blade that is supposed to last a long time.
@@bleepinjeep Great video. You used this metal blade for a while(previous build), at what point(say 2inch tubes cuts) did it start to dull to a point where ya noticed it wasn't as good as new.
Thanks
But, what if you would have used a new Lennox?
The packaging says it last 1000 cuts so I wanted to see how it performs after 500 cuts. If it does well new but then dulls after 10 cuts that would defeat the purpose of the test and of buying a more expensive blade that is supposed to last a long time.
@@bleepinjeep lasting and cutting like new are not necessarily the same thing. Should have used a new blade to make apples to apples comparison. Then you could compare a new Lenox blade to a used Lenox blade to see if there was a difference.
and go a little faster.
*laughs in plasma cutter*
As an educator, should you be using a Type 27 guard with the Type 41/1 cutting wheels?
Try metabo super slicer blades. Get the Metabo grinder made for cutting blades, they have a clutch to help start without jumping out of your hand. Not cheap but beats all others. Don’t take my word check it out. You can’t go wrong. Enjoy your videos, always . Thanks
The 1mm Flexovit (quality similar to the camel) do a good job of intricate jobs like cutting square holes in cabinet doors, which is what I use small discs for. With a gentle touch it doesn't even burn the paint.
For cut offs I use a drop saw.
hey I found if you use bees wax on aluminum for either blade it will cut better and longer life for the abrasive as well
Bar soap works well, also
Just need to know, for slitting collets, is abrasive cutting wheel good option??
I think you should have used a new wheel for both.
On another note...
Love the discrete product placement.
Maybe Lays will send you some complementary bags of chips.😄😄
The packaging says it last 1000 cuts so I wanted to see how it performs after 500 cuts. If it does well new but then dulls after 10 cuts that would defeat the purpose of the test and of buying a more expensive blade that is supposed to last a long time.
That makes sense.
Thank you.
Keep up the good work.
I think the decibels might have something to do with the fact that decibels are logarithmic, which means that 76 might be 10 times louder than 75 (obviously numbers are off, but just an example)
decibel scale goes like this, every 10 decibel is double in absolute loudness as the last. So 70db is 2ce as loud as 80db
A fair test is always new vs new.
The packaging says it last 1000 cuts so I wanted to see how it performs after 500 cuts. If it does well new but then dulls after 10 cuts that would defeat the purpose of the test and of buying a more expensive blade that is supposed to last a long time.
Does speed (or the time to cut) really matter? Not an expert here but I feel trying to cut faster is gonna damage the cutting blade...
(It's obviously been 2 years since this video but...) With the advances in carbide, I've put the angle grinder away, and went to circular saws for anything under ½" thick.
With the anti-kickback safety features, and thicker, sharper (and resharpenable) blades, it's become a no brainer in terms of cost.
As far as cut quality... it's light years better.
But for me personally, the safety aspect is top notch. No breaking blades, and no super-fine particulates clogging filters.
Cost... pricey at first. But over time, it's WAYYYY less expensive.
The downfall... mess!!! It launches shavings everywhere!!!
So check it out sometimes.
Should have included cut quality as well, how much extra cleanup time needed with the diamond. As the abrasive wore down it would cut slower, so actually time wise it really would have blew away the diamond if it was full diameter on the later cuts
Maybe, but the wearing down is the reality of an abrasive disk unless you're gonna slap on a fresh one after every cut. He should have used a new metal disk instead of a half worn one. It would have had more diamonds on it and would have been a fair representation.
Which one will cut a thick bone with marrow clean?
this is an Oxy torch vs plasma , both have there uses one will not replace the other , but good video
Can u try cutting Rebar and 1in. U Locks
Cut quality/finish is another aspect.. i find sometimes the abrasive is rdy to weld right after being cut but the diamond blades leave a massive burr and really ruff finish that needs to see a flap disk
Also the diamond blades really cant be used with a cordless grinder or even a cheap 6amp one they stall my brushless milwuakee constantly as they require 3-4times the power and pressure to cut i can definitely see someone letting the smoke out of their harbour freight grinder trying to use one without going glacially slow
good points, thanks!
I know I’m nine months late, but my Milwaukee fuel grinder destroys stuff with these wheels. I’m loving the 5” Diablo wheels. I only used like two disks before I switched though, I think it was about the same but the cost of ownership on the diamond blades are way better
@@Doxxi depends on use case i suppose, i find them way too slow and much louder, i guess on thinner materials or more deliberate cutting you wouldnt notice the speed but im lopping chopping chewing through plate tubes truck parts ect with my grinder
Andrew Browner I mainly use it for 3/8 aluminum, used it on an exhaust once for shits and giggles
Next time you cut aluminum spray wd40 on the top and bottom of the material so your blades wont gum up. it works best with a skill saw with carbide teeth. nice test though.
I kinda wish that you used a new metal blade, if I go to buy a grinding disc, I’m not going to get one that was used to build an entire jeep, and I’m sure that the time would be different if it was new. That being said, I’ve only used abrasives and don’t really have a reason to change because I use cut off wheels so little.
The packaging says it last 1000 cuts so I wanted to see how it performs after 500 cuts. If it does well new but then dulls after 10 cuts that would defeat the purpose of the test and of buying a more expensive blade that is supposed to last a long time.
Nice! Diamond only shiny word
why would using a new Lennox blade skew the results? I would think you would want to start with a new blade. Explain please.
if it lasts 1000 cuts I want to see what it does at 500 cuts... not at its first cut.
@@bleepinjeep Gotcha, Thanks!
What about dust in the air , witch is my concern , that dust cover everything in the shop and its a risk for the lungs
you should use a new Lennox diamond blade
Interesting as I hadn’t tried a metal wheel, ones I was looking at were like $40 but for $13 I’ll grab one to try off amazon. Picked up a small metal cutting bandsaw and for small jobs I am loving it - no mess!
Remember that decibels are exponential by a factor of two. So 76 db is twice as loud as 75. In order to have any sort of precision you need a lot of decimal places.
For alyoumanyums i use a a skil saw, or bandsaw. Grinders just melt it or cog up.
Aluminum is just a pain in the ass all around. If you think cutting aluminum is fun, try welding it. The oxide coating on the outside melts at a higher temperature than the metal below it, which makes all Aluminum welding an extremely delicate balancing act. You can clean it off, but it will just start to come back immediately after you're done. If you clean the part and then leave it for a minute or two, you're already too late. You now have to clean it again before you proceed, to keep the thickness of the oxide layers at a bare minimum.
@@MFKR696 i know, i just did a job making two holding tanks out of aluminum, there was about 200 feet of weld.
@@oldreliable303 My hat's off to you. You have more patience than I do at this point lol. Luckily for me, I only ever had to do small jobs with aluminum. Now I just market myself as a "Stainless-Steel specialist". It's still a pain in the ass, but not as bad as aluminum, and the pay's better. Lately, I've just been doing alot of Chef's tables. It's not a romantic job, but it's a job nonetheless.
Love the testing but wa t about heat transfer of the heat generated from the blade. Does the metal one get hotter and does the material get hotter with which method. Heat can cause wrapping as you already know. Just a thought
I have you covered... stay tuned for the next video!
@@bleepinjeep always tune in to see your channel. Can't wait.
How is comparing a used blade to a new blade a fair test?
What about following a cutting line? Is one wheel more manoeuvrable than the other?
Damn good question. I would like to know.
Cool video and interesting results
What about when the abrasive disc gets hung up and shatters? The metal disc might get bent but won't explode
try not to do that!
I would say the lenox kills batteries when it gets dull
I'm a huge fan of the camel abrasive will also! It's much much quieter and not ear piercing like the metal! But I would love to see a test with the New Lenox blade on the quarter inch and see if it cuts quicker with a brand new blade
On the metal blades have you tried Diablos what's the difference between Diablo and Lenox thank you very much😷🍻🍺
I have, the diablo seemed really really slow!
so, I have to wonder if this was a fair fight. an old worn out diamond vs a new grinding disc. we all know how fast a grinding disc lasts. but for those of us who havent used a diamond blade yet, who knows how long a new diamond blade cuts fast like a grinding disc. i just do not know any more now after watching your video than i did before. its like racing a worn out NASCAR engine vs a new Ferrari v-8.
Valid point! Idt this giys very experienced with actually working with these tools.
I feel like the metal blade would be awesome. If it came with something to sharpen it with. Like a pocket sharpener..It still may shrink but not as fast..
What are you going to use to sharpen diamond?
What happens to the metal blade is the bonding material breaks down over time. The diamonds dont get less sharp, there are just less diamonds.
It's impossible bud! The fact you got a heart reaction. From the guy on this channel. Without any explanation. Tells me he's not the guy you want to look to, for answers. At least in this category. I mean just by watching him fight the tool by pushing it instead of pulling it. Says a lot about his experience in this field. These metal blades have no teeth on them. It's diamond particles glued to the disc. Over time the adhesive holding the diamonds wears down and the diamonds begin flying off. No diamonds, no cut. The guy on this channel should have educated you. Instead of liking your comment, as if it's a possibility. To have a handheld pocket sharpener, for a diamond cutting blade. That no longer has any diamonds on it. Basically it'd be the same way, if sand was glued to a metal disc. Once the sands gone, the metal disc can't cut and is useless. I'm not trying to be condescending towards you. Just irritated that he didn't reply to your comment. And use it as a teaching moment. Instead he leads you on by liking your idea. Even tho it's not possible to do.
Perfect
Walter's zip disks are the best on the market at 11.00 dollars a blade
If you spend 11 bucks for a single blade, you're what they call a "sucker" lol.
Does one leave a better cut behind? And maybe do a new vs old metal test...
Mike Carfi the metal lenox blades leave an awful finish in my experience.. they almost melt the material rather than cut it, leaves a razor sharp burr as thick as the material youre cutting.. inputs an insane amount of heat, despite being similar thickness i find the kerf is almost double between my walter abrasives and the diamond wheels
@@AndrewBrowner thanks!
Should have measured the blade temperature after cutting
Im that guy that wears safety glasses while cutting with abrasive that you have to take to the VA to get a couple pieces of the disc removed from my eye
Try a Diablo_Metal Demon blade with a circular saw it'll blow your mind
The metal blade cut the first one at 9 seconds, you paused before hitting the timer off
Just buy 1mm abrasives. I've been a boilermaker for 13 years and have never had one "Blow up" I have broken them when not cutting. You get less cuts from thicker blades. Boilermakers only use the thicker blades for light blending.
For everyone saying use a new blade.. ive used the lenox and the diablo dismond blades, theyre both painfully slow right out if the box.. they leave a horrendous burr and huge kerf, heat the material up red hot and are just miserable to use in my opinion
good to know... looks like the people wont be satisfied without a video though! 😂
I can't say abrasive disks are safe at all; because when it comes to durability, abrasive disks can shattered at wrong move, even just bit.The disks particles can go around like projectile. So not safe for my opinion.
I am not mathematically inclined but according to Google, decibels are not linear, and a 10 decibel change is perceived as being twice as loud. So a one decibel change could be noticeably louder.
That is why a 100 watt guitar amp is not 10x louder than a 10 watt amp. Its non linear.
Damn, basically got 154 seconds of good cutting out of the camal, or 2.5 minutes. Still can do a lot in that amount of time with one though.
Ya they usually last quite a while, you gotta realize I don't typically cut long sheets of 1/4" with a cutoff wheel. I use the plasma cutter for that and before that I used the torch. But they also make saws that can cut long cuts like that.
@@bleepinjeep with these new diamond blades, you can make long cuts in 1/4" with a regular circular saw that is cool to the touch and clean as a whistle ready to weld.
Can I cut 19 mm ss pipe 0.33 mm thickness ?
Which blade can I use Metal or Abrasive?
Which blade would not come burr?
1.05 sec is different to 1.05 min. ¿Or do you mean 105 sec?
i bought a diablo diamant blade today and it sucks compare to the walter regular cutting disc
I've seen the Lennox 14" diamond blades sold as a retrofit for abrasive blade chop saws, but $120 is a lot to pay for a saw blade. Anybody tried one?
I would think that it lasting longer on a chop saw would be alot bigger of a deal. They dont get smaller the longer you use them also. But also, have not spent the 120 bucks for one.
One other feature with the CGE Camel over the metal disk is, you can use it for grinding bevels and smoothing rough edge etc. I believe. Like much care is needed not to break it when doing so due to the extreme thinness.
Ya you can in a pinch which is helpful but I try never to do that for safety reasons. I always keep 2 grinders one with a cutoff and one with a flap disk that keeps me from doing stuff like that😅
@@bleepinjeep Copy that, the flap disk's are much better for that and have a better finish too.
Aren't diamond blades for cutting masonry, not metal?
But...can one blade cut the other type of blade?
blade battle !
Backin Theday haha I like that battle of the blades?
compare a new metal blade to that older one.
Use vegetables oil on the blade, it gicesta finish polish cut
you should be using a brand new metal disc as your comparing times to brand new due to abrasive wearing down and renewing itself all the time...
Why not use a new diamond blade?
You started out with a worn out Lenox blade and a new Camel blade, not a fair test...
The Lenox disk’s don’t wear and dull out like other metal cutting blades do they can make thousands of cuts before you notice any difference. So as far as cutting performance I’m sure it was as good as new
The packaging says it last 1000 cuts so I wanted to see how it performs after 500 cuts. If it does well new but then dulls after 10 cuts that would defeat the purpose of the test and of buying a more expensive blade that is supposed to last a long time.
Well if you want the job done right you get PB Blaster
If you used a new abrasive cut off then you should of used a new diamond cutoff
Too bad you didn’t consider and compare the quality of the cuts, like surface finish, flatness, and post cut clean up of burrs. We all know after cutting the abrasive wheels always leave a high edge at the bottom of the cuts, especially on tube or pipe, due to the rounded cutting edge and flexing of the wheel. The diamond and carbide tip wheels give a much better quality and accurate cut with less post cut clean up, deburr and flattening the high spot, a huge time saver. I know most people just want to rip through the material and call it good enough then wonder why their parts don’t fit up right, quality and accuracy matters too.