I had to set it to -6dB when dynamically panning instruments throughout songs because once the instruments were panned hard left and right for choruses, the volume dropped significantly. It took me a long time to understand why this happened. Great video, thanks.
Thank you for your tutorial and explaination ! You explained the Pan Law with an hardware/software approach (What console use that, what software use that), but I think the better explanation of really WHY choosing one pan Law rather than one athoer is found in the Mixing Audi: COncepts PRatices and Tools book by Roey Izhaki. It really tell us what it does with soeaker mix but also on headphones, and how it affects stereo or mono signals, explaining why -6db is required for mono critical applications, or such other detailed infos.
Thanks! I noticed that without Gain compensation and pan law set to something other then 0 the final mix will hit peak at that chosen level. Even with the end peak limiter set to 0 or to -1, the outcome will still be lower by 2,5, 3 or whatever is chosen in the pan law.
Okay, so I noticed the other day when I was panning my two drum overheads, that when I panned them hard left and right, they dropped significantly in volume. When I brought both of them back to center, they were significantly louder. I notice it more with different mics, I believe... Is this the Pan Law thing you speak of??
A good way to see which pan law is best is to run a test tone (1kHz sine, pink noise) and get an SPL meter at your listening position. From there you can see how much louder center is than your side speakers. Then you apply your pan law setting. Left, Right and Center should all be the same on your SPL meter. This ensures that, if you mix in mono, your levels won't drop once you start panning things. Or conversely, if you mix in stereo then play your track in mono, your sides won't come up by up to 6dB. On a side note, if your left and right speakers are different volumes, adjust the one that's not the same as the other that matches your center channel. My room is well-treated so I used -6dB but my right speaker was a little louder than my left.
Thank you for this! I usually check my mixes in Mono, and it helps a lot with frequencies, but my levels get all messed up because some things seem louder than they really are. I'm going to try this technique asap! Thanks again!
Hi, I think in the second part of the video (auto pan) the pan law is NOT working, because the pan knob is not moved. It's in middle position the whole time, so the middle gain reduction is also applied when the signal is hard left or right.
Thanks for the explanation! I was trying to match settings from Pro Tools (PT10) in Reaper and wondering why my fader had to be 1.5dB lower. It occurred to me to experiment with the pan law and sure enough, when I set it to -2.5dB, all was well.
What if I use a rotating stereo effect like a phaser or a rotary simulation and leave the track panned in the center with the pan law at 0? Is it gonna make the effect appear louder when it gets to the middle or does this only have an effect when using the pan knob of the track? I'm a bit confused as in my thinking the use of a panning plugin should be independent of Reapers track pan law. This would change the sound of any stereo effect with a center signal drastically. Excellent work as always, Kenny!
Don't touch pan law in Reaper if possible when your mixing through folders!! Or don't forget to individually change the panning law on folders to -0 db!!
I guess this is why I learned to pan the tracks before doing anything else in a mix. Still I preffer the 0dB option, mixing on headphones can become really tiring if the pan signals are very loud.
Pay attention to folder tracks if you're using non 0 db pan law in reaper. If your default pan law is -3db, you reduce the gain by 3 db simply by dragging the track in a folder (and -6 if child of child, and so on) . So if you're using non zero pan law, it might be a good idea to switch the pan law of your folder track to 0 or using dual pan on folders. The devs should make the folder tracks ALWAYS 0db pan law whatever the project settings. it would be less confusion imho...
+Reno Mellow That is a very good and important advice !! Sure it can be compensated with volume fader boost, but it is really important to know how it works to avoid surprsies. Also, it is important to keep PAN LAW to 0 when importing already mixed song (mp3 cd rip for example); of you will get volume drop.
+Extrem Raym So in short, which pan law and pan mode the majority of users should use? Mean, if i'm beginner, which settings should i use without diving into technical details? Thanks!
How is Pan Law affected when you Mix a track using Stereo Pan. With the WIDTH knob. I perceive the mix gets louder when the track is at 100% than when it is at 0%. Maybe it does not in terms of DB metering (ave not tested), But is there a way to compensate for that? So that when I go toward 100% width, I lose some DBs.
I stopped using Pan Law because it reduces the volume on my group tracks, which irritates me. I now use the default at 0db, but realistically this does not alter the sound, we always compensate cording to our ears.
switching pan law on a mix from -0 to -4.5 was a nice change in perspective for me. Now I definitely know I'm a little heavy handed on the volume of drums
Any way to set pan law for more than one track at a time; or use an action to quickly set a track's pan law with just one keystroke? I like leaving my project at pan law 0 so folders don't drop the level, but need a quick way to change imported mono tracks to use -3dB pan law.
cool video Kenny.. part 2 pan mode? can you explain the REAPER 3x mode etc. also ive noticed when using pan laws the signal strength varies depending on the type.. example using pink noise instead of a solid tone in your test.. not to mention using VU meter or RMS meters instead of peak meters. a bad experience with the signal being too high going through the fx chain but it saying it was -25 on the peak meter .. which is why i always use REAPERs trim plugin first.. by the way V5 has a new JS volume plug that has a pan law feature now.. and its less CPU than the original Volume trim, check it out.
+Frank B (FB IV) I didn't explain that mode because I don't think REAPER wants people using it. But it's a cross between two of the ones I described. Thanks
Strange V 6.78 with ProTools Theme I have still the second control for wide in default pan mode "stereo Balance" . And it effecting the signal from 0 to 100% ????
I AM PULLING MY HAIR OUT!!!!! PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME. I AM TRING TO PAN 2 TRACKS IN A SINGLE BUS AND THE FUCKING VOLUME KEEPS DROPPING WHENEVER I PAN EITHER TRACK TO THE RIGHT! IT IS INFURIATING AND I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS SO BAD. WHY IS THIS SUCH A FUCKIING ISSUE WITH ME, NOBODY ELSE SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I AM TALKING ABOUT.
How about plug in and let the show begin. I do believe that's the way it use to be done. Let the bankers go to hell! Jerry Lee Lewis said, "Who the in hell.... ".
I had to set it to -6dB when dynamically panning instruments throughout songs because once the instruments were panned hard left and right for choruses, the volume dropped significantly. It took me a long time to understand why this happened. Great video, thanks.
Thank you for your tutorial and explaination !
You explained the Pan Law with an hardware/software approach (What console use that, what software use that), but I think the better explanation of really WHY choosing one pan Law rather than one athoer is found in the Mixing Audi: COncepts PRatices and Tools book by Roey Izhaki. It really tell us what it does with soeaker mix but also on headphones, and how it affects stereo or mono signals, explaining why -6db is required for mono critical applications, or such other detailed infos.
and if you want to reproduce the PT behavior, you have to switch every track with stereo item on to dual pan (or 0db pan law)
Thanks! I noticed that without Gain compensation and pan law set to something other then 0 the final mix will hit peak at that chosen level. Even with the end peak limiter set to 0 or to -1, the outcome will still be lower by 2,5, 3 or whatever is chosen in the pan law.
Okay, so I noticed the other day when I was panning my two drum overheads, that when I panned them hard left and right, they dropped significantly in volume. When I brought both of them back to center, they were significantly louder. I notice it more with different mics, I believe... Is this the Pan Law thing you speak of??
A good way to see which pan law is best is to run a test tone (1kHz sine, pink noise) and get an SPL meter at your listening position. From there you can see how much louder center is than your side speakers. Then you apply your pan law setting. Left, Right and Center should all be the same on your SPL meter. This ensures that, if you mix in mono, your levels won't drop once you start panning things. Or conversely, if you mix in stereo then play your track in mono, your sides won't come up by up to 6dB. On a side note, if your left and right speakers are different volumes, adjust the one that's not the same as the other that matches your center channel. My room is well-treated so I used -6dB but my right speaker was a little louder than my left.
Thank you for this! I usually check my mixes in Mono, and it helps a lot with frequencies, but my levels get all messed up because some things seem louder than they really are. I'm going to try this technique asap! Thanks again!
I learn something new every time I watch a Kenny video
thank you. i had NO CLUE what pan law was for. you explained it quite well. :)
Thanks man. Lightbulb! Finally understood!
This nearly made me go back to pro tools, why would you want Pan to change volume? I can't think of a single time this would come in handy.
Hi, I think in the second part of the video (auto pan) the pan law is NOT working, because the pan knob is not moved. It's in middle position the whole time, so the middle gain reduction is also applied when the signal is hard left or right.
Thanks for the explanation! I was trying to match settings from Pro Tools (PT10) in Reaper and wondering why my fader had to be 1.5dB lower. It occurred to me to experiment with the pan law and sure enough, when I set it to -2.5dB, all was well.
What if I use a rotating stereo effect like a phaser or a rotary simulation and leave the track panned in the center with the pan law at 0? Is it gonna make the effect appear louder when it gets to the middle or does this only have an effect when using the pan knob of the track? I'm a bit confused as in my thinking the use of a panning plugin should be independent of Reapers track pan law. This would change the sound of any stereo effect with a center signal drastically.
Excellent work as always, Kenny!
Fancy seeing you here martin.
Cheers.
Wow martin you too use reaper and watch Kenny ❤❤❤
Don't touch pan law in Reaper if possible when your mixing through folders!! Or don't forget to individually change the panning law on folders to -0 db!!
Thanks Kenny! This was very helpful!!
I guess this is why I learned to pan the tracks before doing anything else in a mix. Still I preffer the 0dB option, mixing on headphones can become really tiring if the pan signals are very loud.
Pay attention to folder tracks if you're using non 0 db pan law in reaper. If your default pan law is -3db, you reduce the gain by 3 db simply by dragging the track in a folder (and -6 if child of child, and so on) . So if you're using non zero pan law, it might be a good idea to switch the pan law of your folder track to 0 or using dual pan on folders. The devs should make the folder tracks ALWAYS 0db pan law whatever the project settings. it would be less confusion imho...
+Reno Mellow That is a very good and important advice !! Sure it can be compensated with volume fader boost, but it is really important to know how it works to avoid surprsies.
Also, it is important to keep PAN LAW to 0 when importing already mixed song (mp3 cd rip for example); of you will get volume drop.
+Dairniel There is a volume drop anyway (just tested with a test tone), but sure, if all parent folders are also panned... the volume drop is higher !
+Extrem Raym So in short, which pan law and pan mode the majority of users should use? Mean, if i'm beginner, which settings should i use without diving into technical details? Thanks!
+overbe For stereo mix music listen with stereo speakers (most common setup), choose -3dB.
+Reno Mellow
Yes, important point. But using boost side takes care of it.
Great explanation, Kenny! Thanks man
Great video, Great Teacher!! Thanks!!!!!!
Great video, appreciate it
How is Pan Law affected when you Mix a track using Stereo Pan. With the WIDTH knob. I perceive the mix gets louder when the track is at 100% than when it is at 0%. Maybe it does not in terms of DB metering (ave not tested), But is there a way to compensate for that? So that when I go toward 100% width, I lose some DBs.
I stopped using Pan Law because it reduces the volume on my group tracks, which irritates me. I now use the default at 0db, but realistically this does not alter the sound, we always compensate cording to our ears.
switching pan law on a mix from -0 to -4.5 was a nice change in perspective for me. Now I definitely know I'm a little heavy handed on the volume of drums
Very interesting, could you elaborate?
VERY helpful video!
Any way to set pan law for more than one track at a time; or use an action to quickly set a track's pan law with just one keystroke?
I like leaving my project at pan law 0 so folders don't drop the level, but need a quick way to change imported mono tracks to use -3dB pan law.
my vocal is always louder in mono speaker. thanks for the explanation.
Appreciate it man
cool video Kenny.. part 2 pan mode? can you explain the REAPER 3x mode etc. also ive noticed when using pan laws the signal strength varies depending on the type.. example using pink noise instead of a solid tone in your test.. not to mention using VU meter or RMS meters instead of peak meters. a bad experience with the signal being too high going through the fx chain but it saying it was -25 on the peak meter .. which is why i always use REAPERs trim plugin first.. by the way V5 has a new JS volume plug that has a pan law feature now.. and its less CPU than the original Volume trim, check it out.
+Frank B (FB IV) I didn't explain that mode because I don't think REAPER wants people using it. But it's a cross between two of the ones I described. Thanks
Strange V 6.78 with ProTools Theme I have still the second control for wide in default pan mode "stereo Balance" . And it effecting the signal from 0 to 100% ????
That video from Kenny is 6 years old?? That was reaper V 1.0🤔
When I pan tracks while I'm recording they sound fine, but when I render a mp3/wav the tracks are centered. Any idea how to fix this?
Make sure you’re rendering in stereo not mono
when I pan to the left or right, it gets louder. its quieter in the middle. wtf happened
You probably have gain compensation (boost pans) turned on under project settings.
I AM PULLING MY HAIR OUT!!!!! PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME. I AM TRING TO PAN 2 TRACKS IN A SINGLE BUS AND THE FUCKING VOLUME KEEPS DROPPING WHENEVER I PAN EITHER TRACK TO THE RIGHT! IT IS INFURIATING AND I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS SO BAD. WHY IS THIS SUCH A FUCKIING ISSUE WITH ME, NOBODY ELSE SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I AM TALKING ABOUT.
How about plug in and let the show begin. I do believe that's the way it use to be done. Let the bankers go to hell! Jerry Lee Lewis said, "Who the in hell.... ".