40 Lightning Bolts vs 40 Ragavans | Playing Decks Containing Only One Card
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Does a deck with only Ragavans beat a deck with only Lightning Bolts? What is the best one-card deck? We bring our cards to the lab to get to the bottom of this.
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All cards features in this video: bit.ly/3NOywwD
That are just 6 😂
Missed all the lands!
Did you actually get all those copies of the cards, or are they proxies?
I like to imagine the three of them bursting into the CardMarket offices shouting “We need all the Ragavans! Chancellors of the Dross! Has anyone heard of Surging Flame and how many copies do we have?”
@@ConManAUYes! Ok! Here you go, have 20 Ragavans!... WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU NEED MORE THAN TWENTY!?!?
"Dumb" videos like this are what puts your channel above the rest! You guys know how to have fun!
That's very kind of you to say :)
This channel is hot ass.
Agreed. I love how you use Magic cards in such creative ways. Already became a fan of Judge tower, which I found out about thanks to one of your earlier videos.
I would actually love to see more of this format. It’s like the real “singleton” format
Me too. I've been thinking about this format for a while now. I like to call it Shadowborn.
The format is basically a rock paper scissors, chancellor wins cat, cat wins solitude, solitude wins chancellor
Singleton vs Single TON
@@pinipilla island sanctuary beats both cat and solitude
@@colgatelampinen2501 I needed a moment to get how you win with only Island Sanctuary, but that's great. :D
cant lie you casting Lighting Bolt at sorcery speed hurt me emotionally. neat video idea!
In rare cases, it makes sense to cast instant speed removals at sorcery speed. Of course not in this situation, but when you play against control decks, it's better to cast them on your turn if the opponent is tapped out, rather than wait for the end of their next turn hoping they tap out again.
@@RokaiMusic But what's the point in not casting them on sorcery? It's not like you can hide any information, nor your opponent can surprise you with anything
@@darrkhunter96 first of all I'm pretty sure the other commenter was talking about a real game of magic and not this joke format, but you seem to be talking about it for this format and casting the bolt at sorcery speed literally lost Carl that game on the following turn...
If he just waited until Thoralf's combat phase to bolt the monkey Thoralf would never have been able to get an attack in.
not every instant needs to be played on an opponent's end step
@@darrkhunter96I mean, bolting ragavans could stall for the land he needed, doing it on the attack declaration means no damage and no trigger. I think at instant speed, bolting rag wins the bolt deck the game.
Charmed Stray vs Ragavan is one of the funniest games I've ever watched, truly incredible scenes
Another fun one I found was Squadron Hawk. You can just caw at them all day.
just wait until ragavan is declared as an attacker and bolt him.
that way he never hits you.
then eventually you hit a second Land.
that's what I thought.
Eh if you do the math, if ur using every bolt on removing a ragavan, it only takes one lopsided draw for a ragavan to get through when you don't have a bolt and a bolt to get stolen out of your deck. You would need to draw just as many lightning bolts as the opponent does ragavans
@@TheBBbandit the mistake was keeping a one land hand
@@TheBBbandit they're saying to buy time until you draw the second land either you draw another bolt and stay where you are or draw a land and go back to bolting face
@@Meejor100 even if u had two lands to unlock 6 damage to face or bolt a ragavan and do 3, you will still run out of bolts before you do lethal and then die to ragavan
@@jonathandiaz2365 but you have a finite card advantage that you will go through by using more than one bolt per turn
Looks like another 3-deck rock-paper-scissors loop in the format. Chancellors loses to solitude, which loses to surging flame, which loses to chancellors.
yea but its fun :)
Surging Flame would beat Chancellors if it was allowed Simian Spirit Guides instead of Mountains, but that kinda breaks the "one card" rule
Defeat Surging Flame by playing 60 copies of Leyline of Sanctity and mulligan to 1. Win by decking your opponent 😂
@@neni135 which also dies to solitude, another loop!
@@NStripleseven im pretty sure it beats solitude
there's no other mtg channell that provides this much variety of content, you guys do a great job
That's so kind of you to say :) thank you
The only thing that would make this video better would be if it looped back at the end with counter to the Surging Flame and then an all Ragavan deck again.
The counter to Surging Flame is Chancellor of the Dross, so then it just becomes rock-paper-scissors
This video could have been an infinite loop 😅
2:30 So the real trick to slowing down the ragavan roll around is bolting ragavan in response to attackers. THEN he loses a turn for swinging and you get to stall for that 2nd land. Doing it during your own turn only serves to let him play the new one in time.
This is the best thumbnail I’ve ever seen on a magic video
It’s spectacular
Thank you! :D it took me forever to make, I'm happy you like it
I was expecting them to be wearing that throwing cards at each other lol.
@@CardmarketMagic A bit inspired by "Revel in riches", IMO. 👍
They have definitely done some good thumbnails...
Simultaneously a profoundly dumb and extremely entertaining format! Awesome video!
Reminds me, a little bit, of 3-Card Blind Magic. Mostly because it's also a format where you know who is going to win based on what their deck is and it often comes down to cards being used in weird or multiple ways. Might be worth checking out in the future!
Yeah, it sounds similar. Playing it in a way that's fun probably works out the same way
Sorcery speed lightning bolts hurt my soul, but the video was overall hilarious
This is the only MtG channel where I get the feeling that the people in the videos are actually friends and not just co-creators. That’s the best part of it all.
Not necessarily the only one. Nitpicking Nerds had chemistry and they literally live together for example. But these guys look like they are genuinely having a shitload of fun. A bunch of friends doing silly crap together.
Qftjl
Thought this was going to be rubbish, but I actually really enjoyed that! You guys are great!
Hahaha thank you! Glad to know we delivered in the end 😅
This video is super entertaining! The back and forth, the suspense, the editing! The most fun I've had watching MtG content since Maldhound
That's such high praise :D thank you!
Since Surging Flame doesn't have a life-gain component, it'll get beaten by the Chancellor of the Dross deck. Which means the three decks are in a rock-paper-scissors style non-transitive cycle. (Solitude beats Chancellor of the Dross, which beats Surging Flame, which beats Solitude).
I love the little moments where they’re sitting in the chairs and pitching their decks to each other it’s so funny
That's actually a really cool idea to do sometimes!
10:48 "I also want the coat" sent me
I hear 60 Chancellor of the Dross is pretty good. Also 60 Memnite for more "fair" Magic
Edit- YOO
would 60 memnite even beat charmed stray?
@@WingedEspeon I think you could on the play, but not on the draw. Between attacking with 7 on turn 2 and charmed strays not having any evasion, I'm pretty sure it'd work. I don't want to do the effort of simulating it on the draw though
@@michaelk6071 So the Memnites on the play could do 7 + 8 + 9 in the first 4 turns (max, assuming no blocks), but the strays would have 1 + 5 + 15 lifelink on those turns (assuming they have 2 lands by turn 2 and don't draw more) and it only gets worse for the Memnite player as the game goes on.
@@michaelk6071 I'm pretty sure charmed stray wins even on the draw. Memnite player plays 7 memnite, charmed stray player plays 1 stray, memnite player plays another memnite and swings for 7, stray player takes 7 then plays 2 more strays, memnite player plays another memnite and swings for 8, stray player block with 2/2 and 3/3 strays and goes to 10. At this point if the stray player has even 1 more stray they can swing for 9 lifelink which out paces the damage memnite can do.
"Don't worry, I did the math."
*dies*
If only I drew one more land! And did not bolt on my turn like I had a croissant for a brain 😅
I like that you featured the Merfolk King himself, Nikachu!
Also, it was fun to see the game devolve into making a counter for each other’s deck! 😆
Hold on. I bet they beat Chancellor with Solitude exiling itself right.
yeah
" exile up to one other target creature" it says other, so unfortunately not.
@@Gusishhplay a solitude and in response to its evoke trigger play another solitude up to three total
They need to exile another solitude
Amazing content guys ❤🎉😂
Honestly one of my favorite magic videos out there!
Hearthstone does something similar from time to time. The meta eventually evolves into a very interesting game of Rock-Paper-Scissors!
Reminds me of a Hearthstone special game mode that worked similiar to this. You guys should go and check out some of the previous "Tavern Brawls" for hearthstone, maybe get some more fun ideas?
That's specifically where we took the idea from :)
One of the most creative videos I've seen in ages, and very funny!
The narrative escalation was brilliant, and from charmed stray onwards it was just hilarious
the ragavan deck is the most expensive deck in modern
I love how this video immediately descends into complete degeneracy
This is some of the best content. You all are my fav people on RUclips hahahahaha
That's so kind of you to say:D
You guys have been knocking it out of the park recently with these interesting vids!
Thank you :D that's so kind of you to say
This feels like a conversation you’d have with some friends but they actually fully played out all the games. Love it!
I think this is my favourite video on this channel so far, great premise great execution
Thank you :)
This video coming out after MTGgoldfish (brewer's kitchen) playing only ragavan in brawl is funny
Honestly would be interested in going up in numbers. 2, 3, 4 or even 5 cards to make up your entire deck. Hearthstone did this for tavern brawls and at least on day 1 it was pretty interesting to see what people came up with.
There is a hearthstone tavern brawl like this that comes around every so often. This would be just as awesome if you picked a different number of nonlands. Like 2 or 3 or 4 cards as many as you want. Loved this!
This video was directly inspired by that hearthstone format :)
"Does a deck with only Lightning Bolts in it beat a deck with only Ragavan?"
Well, since neither deck can cast anything due to having no lands, the player who goes second decks out first.
Well, now ragavan gets to get the lightning bolts! Unless he gets bolted. But if he gets bolted, then you can play another one. Hmmmm...
Well, him being legendary is a real issue. You can always bolt ragavan while it is attacking and with a second land you can still burn the opponent slowly. Sure, at some point your carddraw will lack behind this startegy but you will have doen soem damage and can hopefully finish him off before he can kill you.
Or if you get lucky with the draws you can just send all the bolts to face and kill your opponent in 4 turns
@@freewilly1337 true
@@dragoknighte48 Yeah. Point is it could have been a lot closer if Carl had more than one mana. :D
The most fun is actually they are teasing each other. The chemistry between the guys is just great. It's just a lot of fun to watch.
Goofy games are fun to play anyway
Funnily in 2024 the Soul Spike deck is by far the most expensive
I rarely get to laugh that hard. What a great video, with an even better conclusion.
The crowns and sunglasses were such nice touches lmao
That’s a lot of money I just saw get crushed by a few stray cats.
Now I'm actually curious how far this game of "Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard. Dynamite..." could go, with one deck only beating one other deck, and only losing to 1 deck.
Next up it's commander right? Ashling, The Pilgrim with 99 mountains versus Ashcoat of the Shadow Swarm with 99 Relentless Rats
Brewers kitchen did this with 99 mountains and 1 monke
"The theoretical red deck with 20 Mountains and 40 Lightningbolt wins in 4 turns"
Rhystic Studies! I see you are cultured :)
@@CardmarketMagic :)
This hurt my soul.
Carl, I too sometimes forget to read the full card, but the lightning deck wins on play or draw 99.% of time due to the legend rule.
just always hold open one mana and a bolt for his attack, and kill the ragavan after the attack is declared. he will never connect.
while he can only ever have one in play, you can throw spare bolts at face.
So we actually did the math but acted out the video differently for entertainment purposes. You never bolt the ragavan. If you do, one of the two following scenarios happen:
1- You are on the draw and you one-for-one all the ragavans but then lose to decking
2- You draw more lands than the ragavan player and they hit you even once, then you lose to decking.
The play is to always bolt your opponent in the face. You eventually deal 6 for every 2-5 damage they do and always win. But we thought it would be boring to have a bolt vs creature matchuo next and I was the only one that did not mind missplaying on camera 😅
@@CardmarketMagic in my head the fact you only need 7 bolts to their 10 monkey hits (and possible bolts as well, but nvm that), and the fact they physically can never get in more than 1 hit a turn, while you can throw a few bolts at will out changes the math a little, because the chance of stumbling is essentially the same in both decks.
I did not consider the mill out part of the equation, that's probably why you are the professionals making Magic content and I am a lowly keyboard warrior :D
Loved the video though-would loved to have seen a bracket style tournament for it- which 100% would have been luck of pairings.
Y'all are by far my favorite magic content machine online, only channel I actually check on a daily basis to see if you uploaded anything recent!
Keep up the good work, and much love from 'Murica!
Cool idea and absolutely hilarious video. Carl has some legit comedian skills, I almost died laughing at his excitement in the last match
Thoralf: and I guess we do what...
Jamin: block
Thoralf: Ragavans do. *slowly puts Ragavan into graveyard lol
3 card losers and 3 card wins magic are also very interesting. winners is easier to think about but both players play with there 3 cards show. you do not lose to card draw. all cards are fine at the start. Also normal played as round robin for the round. with both players playing on play and draw 1 time. losers is a bit harder as you need rules that ensure the deck can win in the first place against a blank hand of an arbitrary number of cards ( this part is to get around wrack and black vice and others like that where they only win if there opponentdoes nothing). some fun deck are the rack, wasteland, Mishra's Factory.
Bolt is an instant, it should have easily beaten ragavans
Easiely? Well... you run into a simple resource calculation.
In short? If the Bolting player draws his 5th land before he killed the Ragavan player, then the Ragavan wins (if we expect the monkey to always hit a bolt)
Solitude/soul spike beats chancellor, chancellor beats ripple, ripple beats solitude/soul spike. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
This was amazing! So fun! Also please bring back some more pioneer! Would love to see Izzet pyro if you're feeling rogue or Izzet phoenix/Titi
We're bringing pioneer back after we are done with the "Best Deck Ever" series :)
I watch a lot of Magic the Gathering content and I can honestly say, this is one of my favorite videos of all time!! Absolutely hilarious! 😂
Glad you enjoyed it :)
I think that lightning bolts would beat ragavans if carl mulliganned to hit more lands
61x providence beats the chancellor deck every time on the draw
Now you guys are playing Magic like Yugioh. Nice. 😂
this is fun. and i'm a fan of the belief that it's roughly even between all the decks.
there are so many counterdecks and counterplays and counterstrategies. this is a fun format to play, honestly, and i want to see more of this format being played.
I laughed so hard when i saw quadruple solitudes lol
you make one of the best mtg content out there!
from competitive to absolut redicules stuff you mastered it all.
thanks fro bringing me joy!
Thank you! :D that's such high praise! We'll make sure to deliver for you :)
I don’t know what I was expecting but this was way better than anything I could’ve imagined 😂😂😂
Thanks for yet another great video yall!!
Same. You put it very well.
In response to your Surging Flame deck, I present you...
100 leylines of sanctity.
It won't be fun. But it will win. Every time.
and that gets beaten by 1000 card deck, deck size needs to be exactly 60 or it goes into stupid whoever puts more cards into deck wins and since it barely even effects consistency with unlimited copies, it would just always be correct to play more cards.
What a rollercoaster video, I really thought this was just gonna be a short best of three 40 bolts vs 40 Ragavans. It was so much more 😂 Fantastic editing.
As hilarious as this is, it's also a great show of how balanced the game of MTG really is. I just introduced the some friends to MTG, one was asking what the best deck was. I told them flat out, the beauty of MTG is that there is no best deck. There are strong decks, and there are decks that are better than others, but nothing that is full proof to win %100 of the time.
Man you guys come up with such fun ideas, always love when your videos pop into my feed.
I don't know if it would make for a good video, but this really reminds me of the Three Card Blind format. You get like 8 people to submit 3 card decks, then you figure out which decks beat which, with the following rules - Each player plays every other one (you don't actually have to play, you just figure out who wins) - you play two games per match, with each player being on the play once. Winning gets you 3 points, draws get you 1, losses get you 0. You don't lose from having nothing in your deck (but you do still have a draw step!), and you play with your hand revealed. Any random effects also always fall in the favor of the opponent. It has a similar vibe - you get some cool mini-decks that can have surprising amounts of power, and there's a similar sort of meta that evolves between tournaments.
There are some fairly commonly banned cards (Barren Glory and two Black Lotuses is a bit absurd, as an example, so one or both of them usually get banned.) but otherwise it's a wonderful foundation for some very creative deck building!
I feel like if a lightning bolt deck holds the bolt for the first turn and bolts Ragavan during their opponents turn, they should in theory win every time.
Also if they don't dash in a Raga and just play one without summoning sickness, you should be able to pass until it doesn't have summoning sickness, declares an attack, bolt the raga, and use your other lands to bolt the face.
I think if you just reserve enough bolts to only bolt one ragavan during combat when they are attacking, and empty the rest of their hand on bolting the face, the bolt player can't lose aside from flooding.
I think in the second game, Thoralf should've Dashed the Ragavan turn 2, then played one normally turn 3. Potentially, he would've stolen a Charmed stray, which is a blocker, and would still have a blocker. But I think in the end it doesn't really matter, Ragavans against any deck that can produce a 1/1 every turn is toast
The thumbnail game is on point right now. First with the Dandan video now this?
Thank you 😎 I recently realized that I did not understand why I wasn't putting my decade of photoshop work to good use in our thumbnails 😅
I’d be curious to see Bolt deck vs Goblin Guides. Goblin guides don’t have that legendary clause, but they are also thinning dead draws out of the opponent’s deck. Seems like it would be a more interesting match to try and balance
Nobody sees the Chancellor of the Dross deck coming until they’ve seen the Chancellor of the Dross deck.
Day 8 of asking you to play Eldrazi Tron in modern!! 🎉🎉
When we are done with our "Best Deck Ever" series, we'll go back to playing regular pioneer and modern :) we'll look into playing Eldrazi Tron then
Mulliganning would have gotten the win in the chancellor match, actually. Just play one solitude/soul spike and let them deck out.
Ok, here's an idea. Rocket Tag. Pick any format you want, build your deck within the constraints of that format and card quantity rules etc, but here's the kicker. Mana Value doesn't exist. All cards can be cast without paying their mana cost. Ah but Mana Leak.. better still run some mana sources. Or do you gamble it all on your opponent's build and draw! Do you run brutally fast combo? Do you run counterspell tribal and a single Delver? Do you try to dump 7 stax pieces onto the board turn 1 and lock them out entirely? How about getting lucky and dropping all 3 Eldrazi Titans with 4 Not Of This World in hand only for your opponent to Quicken into Farewell!? Time to explore a fresh, insane, Nitro-charged metagame folks! *JOIN ME IN THE NEW WORLD!*
Maybe, just maybe, playing a legendary creature for your singleton deck wasn’t the best idea.
Just to make sure my math is correct here: In a perfect world the Bolt player goes 3 mana and 7 bolts witin the first 4 turns (turn 1: Mana + bolt, t2: mana + 2 x bolt, t2: mana + 3 bolts, t4: 1 bolt) totaling 10 cards (exactly the total amount you get by turn 4 assuming u started and did not mulligan) and 21 damage = win by turn 4 for the bolt player.
Ragavan goes: t1: mana + Ragavan, t2: mana,Ragavan deals 2 + bolt. t:3 mana, ragavan deals 2, bolt your OWN Ragavan, dash 2nd ragavan for 2 damage, bolt ragavan again, dash ragavan again and bolt face (no treasures left at this point). t4: Ragavn goes for 2, bolt own Ragavan, dash Ragavan deal 2 and bolt face: 21 Damage total = win by turn 4.
Bolt player needs exactly 7 Bolts and 3 Mana, Ragavan needs at least 3 mana and 4 Ragavan out of 10 cards at turn 4 so Ragavan gets a higher probability of hitting these, however Ragavan needs to exactly exile 6 Bolts from the enemy after the attacks which should generally be less likely than the bolt player hitting 7 bolts in his hand at some point
Mulliganing to 3 on the Surging Flame deck to guarantee the 4 mountain wiff on the bottom of the deck is a galaxy brain strat
That was cool but I'm pretty sure the Bolt deck beats the Rags deck more often than not. Only reason he didn't was because of only getting one land.... And him being a fool. Lol
The idea thing to do is Bolt Ragavan during combat every turn. Then once you get 2 lands you'll have 15 to 18 damage in hand. Start going up stairs. At this point the Ragavan deck needs 4 turns to win at best. 5 or even 6 if they flip a land or 2 or 3. In those 4-6 turns you should hit the remaining 1 or 2 bolts needed to win. All you need honestly is 5 Mountains to ensure you'll nearly always win.
Great video! I might have a video idea for you in a similar fashion. My friends and I played a subgame we called mind magic for some time. It is played with either a shared deck or individual 60 card decks consisting of a variety of proxies that only have a mana cost, but no text or other stats.
The rules are:
- You may play cards face down as rainbow land
- When you play a card you have to choose any card in existance with the same manacost. On the stack and when it resolves / enters the battlefield it is the announced card until it changes zones. You may always add any number of X to the mana value.
- Every card may only be announced/played once per game. This counts for both players!
The rules may need some refinement, but I think it could be very cool with video editing and a lot of fun if you guys play it :)
If you need any input on the „format“ I would be glad to help.
You guys are fuckin' awesome 😂
I was honestly having a bad day but this video genuinely brought a smile to my face. You guys are awesome keep up the great work. ❤
Thank you! That's so kind of you to say :) I hope your upcoming days get much better!
would've been really funny if the Solitude deck had no lands. that way no one can do anything, and you both mill yourself to death
I mean if you REALLY want to know how decks with all one card in it, go back and play the OOOOOLD PC Magic the Gathering game! The one that's also referred to as Shandalar. You could do some very silly things with your deck in that game.
Jamin wouldn't even need lands because he essentially has 20 soulspikes and 4 x 20 = 80 and Carl only has 41 life. Also, would the solitude thing work? Wouldn't the first solitude get sacrificed before you can respond with the second because it's sacrificed immediately?
Honestly I wish this was just three videos each one being a best of 3 match. Im pretty sure bolts lost only because the missed landrops, and I was so hype for game 2 xD awesome videos guys, maybe make more :)
I once made a deck which was almost exclusively Benalish Heroes. This was before Magic had a '4 of a type' limit (which also rendered Plague Rats almost useless).
This was an event on Arena once. At the time the most reliable turn 1 kill was Dark Rituals into Bolas's Citadel or Peer into the Abyss, then cast loads more Dark Rituals and win with Tendrils of Agony or Torment of Hailfire.
They should bring it back, it was fun. Maybe with Dark Ritual banned so that the solution isn't just the same as last time. Or with new cards like Force of Will / Force of Negation added to the client so that there is a way to counter the ritual deck.
This format becomes much more interesting blind, when you have to metagame knowing all these decks, but not knowing what other people are bringing.
Also, it's obviously better as a theoretical thought Experiment thing, not something to regularly actually play out. Kinda like the old 3CardBlind.
Keeping a one land hand with bolts in game 1 hurt to see.
As long as you dont draw more than 3-4 lands (depending on whos on the draw) you will win by turn4 every time, Ragavan cant beat that in any scenario
Edit: But the rest of the video was incredibly funny xD
Wow, I wasn't sure what I was getting into going into the video but that was fantastic. CardMarket just does not miss on the content!
Thank you :) happy to hear that we managed to deliver
Wer had something similar when antiquities came out. A friend got 40 mishras factories. My answer was a bigger deck with Forests and Argothian pixies. Ah the good times
What's funny is this points out what makes Magic so great, nothing beats everything. Carl's Dross deck lost to both Jamin and Thoralf, but then the deck Carl used to beat Thoralf again would have lost to the Dross deck before it ever took an action.
There is no perfect answer, because if you know your opponents deck ahead of time there is always a strategy to beat it.
Try with Black Lotus (your only mana source), Timetwister, and Underworld Dreams.
The way Carl looked at Thoralf and said “I did the math.” Just pure confidence! Love it!!
Edit: watched further. Sad face.
But carls face when he’s wearing the crown 😂
A funny and jank, but all in all a less consistent counter to Chancellor of the Dross is Gemstone Caverns, Dark Ritual and False Cure. It also needs you to go second. At least I think it works, not sure if Gemstone Enters faster than the Chancellor triggers happen.
A similar but better way to beat the chancellor of the dross deck is to have a deck full of either solitude or soul spike is to have all 60 cards be either card and mulligan to 6 on the draw. You are guaranteed to win 100% of the time. With lands and spells, there is a non-zero chance you mulligan to hands that don't contain either 3 soul spikes or 4 solitudes.
Ok this is false advertisment they say only lightning bolt VS only ragavan and here I see MOUNTAINS.
Lies Deception
For a few B-tier options
Risen Reef
Kalistra Healer
Blood Artist
Lightning Helix
Doomed Traveler
Siege Rhino
60 Valakuts EDIT: or 40, I guess
I havent watched thr vieeonyet but i wanna put my prefictions out there: depending on land draws and things a little but i would imagine 90/100 times the ragivan deck wins. What i envision happening is that the bolt player will have to use their bolts on the ragivan. When it hets to a topdeck war Ragivan is a much better topdeck than bolt.