For all the people wondering why it only has 16 VLS cells: First of all they will mostly use ESSM, 64 of which can fit in those VLS cells which is a considerable amount. Secondly, they also have two RIM 162 launchers for short ranges (below 10km) with 42 aditional missles combined. What has to be considered is that this is a antisubmarine frigate. The F127 will be the future german air defense frigate. If this ship(f126) is used to, let's say stop russian subs from entering the Atlantic and is therefore somewhere near Iceland, what exactly would it need that much air defense for? Russian ships and bombers would be detected and engaged long before they reach Iceland (in this example). You simply do not need more air defense on this ship considering the role it's supposed to fulfill.
its just for its tonage,10,000 tons(cruiser level) , there is simple not enough armement compair to its similar tonage counterparts around the world. people just wonder what do the Germans do with all that space? why not put more VLS on board
The importance of comfort on such units is often underestimated. Many navies have great difficulty manning their ships (including the UK). The Bundeswehr is a professional army and competes with the private sector. The time of press gangs is over. Soldiers must feel comfortable. One of the main reasons for the size.
German, 60. The criticism of too few VLS cells actually points to a frightening lack of knowledge of where Germany is geographically located and who the enemy would actually be, because the design of a warship is based on this. Over the Mediterranean and the North and Baltic Seas, the European NATO states already have complete air superiority over the Russian air force thanks to their land-based air force bases. The South Atlantic and the Indian or even Pacific Oceans are out of the question logistically. So why fill a ship with numerous VLS cells?
@@stunick1573 but you can simple add more VLS on board ya? its a freaking 10,000 ton ship with the armement of a 4,000 ton standard, what do they do with all that space?
95% of the people here have zero understanding of naval warfare, the german mission profile and can't pay attention to what's being said in the video...
@@patta8388 sure, but those "armchair generals" are not as bad as the fool who pulled an arbitrary % out of his behind and added a ridiculous absolutism like "zero understanding" to it, if anything you only made yourself the joke of the comment section
Ppl need to understand that not every large surface combatant is like an Arleigh Burke ffs. This is an ASW frigate. Its main purpose is to fight submarines in an environment where NATO already has air superiority, aka the Norwegian Sea. It’s air warfare complex is perfectly adequate for self defense and local AAW, featuring 2x RAM launchers and 16x Mk41 VLS cells for a total of 42x RIM-116 RAM point defense missiles and 64x ESSM II medium range missiles. The size is down to heavy automation, reducing its required crew complement from 220 on the F123 down to 114 on the F126, as well as long endurance systems giving this class a theoretical non stop deployment time of 2 full years without returning to port. The future air defense frigate of the german navy is the F127, this one ain’t.
@@thealvatar6181 how is that supposed to be an argument? You're acting like every surface combatant only acts as a lone wolf, seeking out 1:1 engagements. Have you ever heard of the small, totally insignificant concept of a Surface Action Group?
@@thealvatar6181 Ah, right, the enemy with teleporting missiles that don't need to get to the area of operations, magically crossing thousands of miles to appear close to the frigate and overwhelm it. May I suggest you grab yourself a map of Europe?
16 VLS cells, quadpacked ESSM, ´that is enough, let us not forget that this is not an AAW frigate. The Type 127is going to be the long-range AAW and BMD ship. So everybody who is moaning about "only" sixteen cells...just shut it.
@@Cornflake520rocket torpedoes are out of date. The average „modern“ ASW distance is around 45-50km, even more depending on the conditions. Meanwhile VL ASROC has a maximum range of 7.5km. If you’re that close to a submarine, you’ve already been sunk
Dutch design and technical quality, which will prevail together with Germany. Now our Dutch navy need to order these in the future as a replacement for the 4 LCF Zeven Provincieen class Frigates. But with better VLS load out and Tomahawks
Dutch navy won’t order this ship, cooperation with Germany is out of the window. Instead the new FUAD ships for the Dutch navy will be designed by COMMIT and built by Damen. And will have much more VLS including Tomahawk missiles.
@@obud3777German crew and technical requirements are out of whack with dutch requirements. So in effect they'd have to design 2 ships. The germans also want Aegis radar/combat systems. That's not happining for the Dutch. We'll buy Thales.
Splitting the radars into two separate parts of the superstructure will be part of it. Not a great issue, steel is cheap and air is free, better to have greater redundancy to aid survivability.
German engineering and crew facilty/room standards are overly complicated and over specced. Think saunas. Ultra wide gang and stairways and very spacious crew compartments. Cable runs and ducting are very over provisioned as well.
Well, the F125 class was ordered in 2007 and designed even before that. Around that time, up to 20% of the Bundeswehr land forces were stationed in the North of Afghanistan and the Americans requested allies with capabilities for asymmetric warfare. And the F125 is actually better suited for that role than any other ship of that size in all of NATO. It's significantly larger than than the class it was meant to replace but had barely half the crew. Emphasis was put on stealth and hardened computers and electronics. It was built around the concept that crews get rotated 4 times a year, while the ship can stay deployed for up to 2 years, providing a swimming operations base for about 100 Allied special forces, who could conduct missions using transport/support helicopters and two large RHIBs, with 80 km pinpoint fire support from the Otobreda that canfire up to 16 Volcano rounds/min. Some of those capabilities are used in the F126 as well, but not a lot. After spending their Christmas money on two additional F126 and 2 Type 212 C/D, the navy is now spending over a billion to keep the F123 in service well into the 2030s and trying to find a suitable role for the F125. For example the mission containers will be equipped with an Iris-T SLM.
VLS cell count is not that important with quad-packed Sea Sparrows. With 64 ESSM and 42 RAM it is armed quite well in comparison to other European navies who might use SYLVER, even if they have 32 or 40 cells. It can protect itself against any kind of aerial threat. For ASW, other things are more important: F126 is very silent, enduring and comprises a state-of-the-art sensor suite. Effective submarine hunting is only possible from the air anyway, VLS-launched torpedoes are just a gimmick for a rapid close-range response, not for active warfare. Also, because of the reference to F125: It is, for the time being, quite useful: Baden-Württemberg has sailed around the world for a year, now it's on a training station and after that it will be on the UNIFIL deployment, all without a major repair stop. With conventional ships, it would have taken 2 or even 3 changes of ships. So at the moment, a lot of our limited fleet capacity can be used elsewhere because F125 can do the basic missions. It gives the navy time to rebuild and use more ships to monitor the baltic sea.
@hansmeyer7225 yes, true, but still - from a ship that size you can kind of expect that there should be way enough space and capacity to integrate fixed ASW and EW systems. Especially ASW when the ships are even designated to that role
@@matthiasradtke3874 Well I guess initially there was no ASW focus. It was more like one of several capabilities. The German Navy has only recently started selling the F126 as a ship with primarily an ASW focus. Because ASW is in high demand throughout NATO. You can see this as even the old F123 will receive a big upgrade including a towed sonar. Despite her limited remaining service time in the German Navy. I don't know what exactly an EW module will look like but every F126 will be equipped in its basic configuration with the R&S KORA 40 EWS. The F124's EW capabilities will be upgraded with the same KORA 40 EWS albeit the F124 will receive some additional components for Electromagnetic Countermeasures. I don't know. Possibly the Electromagnetic Countermeasures part will be implemented through the EW Module for the F126 but with much bigger capabilities.
We are proud about the new F126 Class which is a coorparation of the really good Partner and friendship countries Germany and the Netherlands. It is an impresive ship and it is planed with only 16 vls Cells but there is space for more and I think...this ship will get more. But ..the VLS is only one weapons system. The F126 is a powerfull ship for multirole. Nice designed from Netherlands!!!
@@DBond-bv2oi There is no friendship between the Netherlands and Germany! We will never forget or forgive the occupation and Genocide committed by the Germans!
@@DBond-bv2oi So wie im Video gezeigt (was VLS angeht). Du stellst dir Beschaffungsvorgänge deutlich flexibler vor als sie in Realität sind. Da ist nicht viel mit Flexibilität und die Verträge bzw Vorlaufzeiten sind sehr lang.
the Indian Navy should consider acquiring the next generation F126 frigate . . . the F126 class is a 9,632 ton (10,845 ton loaded) stealth guided missile advanced warfare frigate powered by iFuelCell® e-HYBRId™ M-HEP system . . . the F126 is best suited for long range diversified deployments across the world's oceans & seas . . . perfect for port visits with friendly foreign navies half way across the world . . .
from what we can understand it will be a ship intended to operate with a naval group in order to guarantee an ASW capability even very far from home seas, other units offered anti-aircraft capability, the dream of every navy in the world to be able to afford specialized ships.
The people who complain should first find out: 1. Where is the German Navy's area of operation? 2. What potential opponents do they have? 3. What role do they play in the NATO alliance! In the North Sea/Baltic Sea area, the Russians operate with submarines and rarely with a large number of warships.
@@EK-gr9gd If it is against Russia, then definitely not! That will be taken over by the NATO countries that border the Atlantic. Or would you send capacities from the US coast to the North Sea if you were to take action against a country in your own backyard?
Incidentally, it is not very difficult to place more VLS cells on the bow. By removing the RAM launcher, there is sufficient space for 40 VLS cells. Amidships, on top of the top deck, containers can be placed for Iris-T or Barak-ER missiles. There is sufficient space for at least 24 of these missiles. The Dutch navy places 32 Barak-ER missiles on a ship of 500 tons. There are enough options to increase the firepower of these ships.
Why such large ships for AWS? And of course the size with only 16 VLSs immediately gives criticism as well. Is this not a multi-purpose blue navy peacekeeping frigate?
A potential weakpoint for this F126 firgate is the center between the masts, since the two masts act as lateral limits of a large target for long range fire, missiles, etc.
It is quite the opposite. It's called two-island-principle: Because of this design, it is almost impossible to incapacitate a warship with a single hit. It is used for most major warships in NATO navies.
the problem is not specs but takes to long to make and shaping single ship. 1 year per ship means it takes +1 year atleast tobe ready so 2-3 years after starts they would be ready for service, then comes another ptoblems .. undermanned, and underbudget for maintenance.
Get more yards and you are quicker. These ships are build in modules. TKMS calls its "family" MEKO. You can build them as fast as you want and your suppliers send it their components.
Why would they order this oversized and underarmed thing for so much money when the Dutch and Belgians have a common ASW frigatte design as well? Why not join forces? Why waste money?
The same reason as why thw caracal won and not defenture with their airmobile vehicles.... Cuz the germans only want their own over engineered stuff that is 2x more expensive and less capable all in the name of "german made"
@@texasranger24 Because they are Germans, they want big stairs and saunas on their ships, and they like to over complicate things, I’m glad that the Dutch navy is not longer involved with the German navy and will go their own way.
This interview is a bit confusing tbh. These ships will only ever carry 1 module at a time. You cant really carry multiple modules afaik. Maybe detention but that one is useless af anyway.
@montys420- there's no treaties regarding that. European navies love to classify their ships as frigates even though they're as heavy as a modern-day destroyer to secure more funding from their parliament. It sounds less expensive when you're buying 6 frigates vs. buying 6 destroyers.
@@paulsteavenIt has nothing to do with prices. It's purely political especially in Germany. Same reason Japan officially only has self defence forces and no military
@@galactic-guy I'm fairly sure that's an internet myth: the only reason Japan has a ""self defence force"" is because the occupying US authorities compelled them to add this to their constitution, but Germany has no such restrictions and in fact was incentivized to rearm quickly after WW2 in order to counter the Soviets during the Cold War. What I've read is that, quite simply, destroyers are generalists whilst frigates are specialists. The German navy has begun to add more and more capabilities to its frigate classes, but they retain a focus on a specific area. I'd agree there's an argument to be made they *could* also be seen as destroyers, but the reason that isn't done could be as simple as them being official successors to frigate classes. A big problem is that, by now, this kind of terminology has been twisted through decades of maritime evolution and unequal upscaling to the point where two countries would even classify the exact same ship differently. Fun fact: the British call every ASW ship a frigate and every AA vessel a destroyer. Accordingly, their Type-26 is both a frigate AND a destroyer, depending on whether you're referring to the ASW or the AA variant.
Nice design, but i realy do wonder why they are only building frigates? I dont mean they should build aircraft carriers, but maybe some destroyers and a few cruisers?
"Destroyer" and "frigate" have become more or less meaningless distinctions as every country uses its own definition. The British Royal Navy, for example, differentiates them only based on whether it's focused on ASW (frigate) or AA (destroyer), so their new Type 26 is actually both depending on which variant you're looking at. 😃 F126 is going to be the largest surface combatant to join the German Navy since the end of WW2, with twice as much displacement as the three Lütjens-class destroyers it had from the 70s to 2003, so there's definitely some "upscaling" going on there, too. We can probably expect this trend to continue. Personally, I'd like to see a large cruiser just because these ships are so majestic, but of course its cost and vulnerability would have to be justified by mission profile. At one point there was even talk of Germany joining an EU coalition to share a single joint aircraft carrier, but I'm sure this initiative is quite dead at the moment. Maybe at some point, considering where the world is heading these days? One thing to keep in mind, however, is that the German Navy also has a significant submarine fleet, which would probably be tasked with carrying out the lion's share of anti-ship missions, whereas the frigates are intended more as highly capable support vessels for NATO fleets (in addition to maritime stabilization in peacetime). The Type-212CD stealth uboats currently under construction for Germany and Norway are shaping up to be highly capable hunters .. especially considering even their predecessor already managed to slip through the escort screen of USS Enterprise, scoring a simulated sinking of the aircraft carrier during a NATO maneuver.
This is a very heavy modular frigate class and would have been seen as a destroyer type vessel by most navies. But in Europe it is probably better to downsize the ships for political acceptance reasons. It has a very small crew for such a big ship with a helicopter which makes operating costs lower.
Wait and see what the F126 really can do...I think we will be surprised which weapon systems also will installed. We cannot tell all the russian enemies what our future frigate can and cannot. So keep cool...it is better to tell not so much before
@@jonlaurenzreyes1902 The available ASW Rocket systems are not suitable for open water ASW anymore- Modern ASW happens at upwards of 50 km. If you are in range for VL-ASROC then you have already been sunk.
@@-MarcelDavis- that leaves no cells for anything else though. No long range AD, or anti-ship/land attack missiles, or even a VLS torpedo. Even with the NSM, that is only 8 missiles that makes up the ships entire offensive capacity.
Im Verband zu gebrauchen, aber wenn`s mal einsam wird, dann ist es so als ob man einen Soldaten mit nur einem Magazin los schickt, ziemlich unterbewaffnet!
He doesn’t refer to the propulsion system but that construction progresses at a fast pace. The F126 frigates will be powered by a combined diesel and diesel-electric system :)
We Americans complain that the Constellation frigates has only 32 VLS. 64 would have been reasonable given that 90% of the ship is a new design (classic bait and switch). I don't feel so bad in comparison to Germans having to cope with their Navy spending money on a 10K ton ship with only 16 VLS. Why do European Navies have so few missiles on their ships? Imagine this ship confronting the Houthis. If a US Burke destroyer with 96 VLS was stressed about running out of missiles I can't imagine this ship lasting for a month before having to sail back to friendly port to re-arm.
> Why do European Navies have so few missiles on their ships? Because we have no intention of fighting in the Pacific or other places far from home. This ship's role is ASW in the north sea, baltic and mediterranean, and keeping submarines out of the atlantic. This ship operates close enougn to NATO mainland to be covered by air superiority. Unlike US ships which usually operate far from home, and thus need to carry a lot more missiles.
I don’t know if you know this but Germany is in Europe. This ship is perfect for that role. You won’t see this ship fighting the Houthi’s as a lone wolf, what the f is that idea even lmao
The German Navy seems very reserved. Think for example of the largest naval ship in the Netherlands (also Damen) His Majesty Karel Doorman (205m). This ship was once built for the German Navy, but was cancelled whereupon the Dutch Navy took over the ship. The German Marines or the Sea Battalion, do borrow the Dutch ship Karel Doorman for their overseas missions.
Much like America's Burke Class destroyer, this ship ... at over 10,000 tons ... is quickly approaching light cruiser size. Calling it a "frigate" is just odd or misleading in some (unimportant) way. Also, to only install 16 Mk. 41 cells - for a ship of this size is also odd. It would make me think that the ship is either not going to be carrying long-range AAM's like the SM6 or one of those module positions they kept going on about might be for more Mk.41 cells - depending on the mission requirements. I am not a German admiral .. I can only guess.
It only carries ESSM (4x16 missiles) plus 2 RAM launchers (42 missiles). It is ASW focused, not AAW. For its purpose it is well enough armed, question is just why it needs a 10k tons ship design for that.
@@Rockeviltwin Design choice and mission profile. The F126 has a stronger hull, making it less dependent on Icebreakers in arctic conditions. It also features a two island design, were every important component (including OPZ) is available at least twice in seperate parts of the ship, making it much more survivable in case of a heavy hit. It features enough space for two NH90 Sea-Tiger helicopters with full ASW and ASuW armament, plus (not or) UAVs. It also features enough space for 2 large RHIBs along the sides and 1 well deck for an other RHIB or UUVs and towed sonar arrays. And space for future laser based weapon systems. Finally if you compare crew quarters of the F125 and an Arleigh Burke Destroyer, it becomes pretty obvious where a lot of space is going. Same Reason why the future replacement of the AB has a design displacement of 14000 tonnes without increasing the number weapons. You just can't design ships like you're in the 80s anymore...
A complete waste of space. when I first heard the figure of 64 missiles i wasn't expecting that to mean quad packed ESSM. Sure it's size allows flexibility in it's role, but are you REALLY sending a10000t ship to do MCM. No you are not.
Xavier has serious issues talking about german vessel in every related video. I wonder why he carries the arch enemy stance into the future. And why not any other reporter can do the job in regards to german vessels instead of him. At least it didn't get as awful as in the submarine video. Professional journalism looks different!
Love the logic, "Qualifies as a Frigate" then point's out it's over 110 meters length and 10,000 tons while pointing at a modern Destroyer. What is with not calling them Destroyers? Is it a taboo subject? Likens back to a certain mad man Dictator we can sell it but it has to be a Frigate or the Government won't buy it. The gun system even screams destroyer.
@BananananaJoe I get that however.... It's still Destroyer size and Destroyer's are also used in Anti Sub anti air especially when it's the "Backbone" of the fleet. It was also mentioned in the interview vaguely that it's a policial naming issue the guy almost apologized for calling it a Frigate.
@@matthiashartge5520 That's the problem these days you let politician's have their way and you get stupid naming because stupid reasons. The Sheep can go back to sleep the Department of misinformation has deemed it a Frigate so no worries.
@@muhammadiman3840 look at the specifications. It's high automation and long deployment times will be uncompareable to any ASW ship present in NATO right now. It will be the best ASW ship NATO can offer.
2028 to be done? and 1 made a year. The manufacturer is enjoying vacation and making ship and the same time? Russian will invade Euro before German could see this ship.
It doesn't mean that. it takes 4 years to build and test those ships before it is handed over to the German Navy. they start building each ship with approx 1-year delay between each other, thus they are delivered 1 year after each other. Building the hull and superstructure doesn't take long, a year perhaps. But installing all the equipment, machinery, electronics etc., and testing them is what takes a long time, something they can do while the ship is in the water. So when the first hull is done built and put into the water (1 year approx), they start to build the second hull where they built the first hull. The First hull will stay dockside and get all equipment installed and tested
@@Broodjemetbeleg Do you know what I find pathetic? The smoking Russian aircraft carrier, whose crew has now been destroyed at the front!!! Or the ridiculous North Korean troops that Russia needs, like accepting help from the Iranians! This is ridiculous!
Ive been a long term supporter of Naval News Today I was disappointed with N.N. for the 1st time after watching this video They avoided asking the critical question of why so little VLS on this 10K ton ship?
@@patta8388 Yeah but the enemy won’t care if you are just an ASW ship, they will see the size of the surface vessel and dispatch appropriate firepower…
@thealvatar6181 There's only one potential enemy that can overwhelm the entire AA armament on a F126. And in the Baltic sea none of our ships operate alone. They're alongside other ships and pretty much always within range of land based systems as well
Truly a terrible design! 10,000+ tons, Only 16 vls, Just 8 ASUW missiles, all of which are crusier missiles, so they're not very survivable against modern air defences, meaning they're unlikely to reach the target and only have a range of 130 nmi, Lacks any AAW cannons (23mm SeaSnake is not a AAW gun, the Japanese suffered extensively against prop planes of WW2 because their 25mm gun lacked the range, and stopping power) They cost €1.6 billion per ship in 2024. Only 26 knots, And an insanely short range of just 4000 nmi.
Can you give me a single reasonable reason why YOU should know the real data and armament of these ships? What would be the point of informing you about the facts? Are you so important that you need to know this?
@@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617 Don't you think the military had something in mind when they ordered these ships? Are you more capable than the military experts?
@@patta8388 Yeah but the enemy won’t care if you are just an ASW ship, they will see the size of the surface vessel and dispatch appropriate firepower…
The Korean Sejong the Great-class destroyer, about the same size as the German 'Frigate' has 96 VLS. This German ship only has 16, which is ridicules. Even the UK frigates will have 48 VLS.
@@patta8388 It seems I do know that the UK Type 26 Frigate is an ASW frigate, with 48 VLS, and is smaller that the German ASW 'frigate', which only has 16 VLS. It's true the Type 31 is a light general purpose frigate with limited ASW capability.
@@Music5362 not quad stacked, less capable missiles and different profile. The Type 26 is an excellent ship. For the needs of the UK. It does not have the versatility and deployment length of a F126. When it comes to SAM's, the difference isn't that big btw, as in addition to the quad stacked VLS, the F126 carries 48 RAMs. Compared to the Dutch, Italian/French frigates for instance, the F126 also doesn't stand out that much. Before you look at the armament, you always have to look at the mission profile and the mission areas. And then the F126 is armed well enough.
@@patta8388 I'm sure these ships will be very good & capable. Having more VLS will allow ASROC and cruise missiles etc. to be accommodated. Such a large ship should easily be able to accommodate a few more.
To everyone who says "16 VLS is enough", yes, we acknowledge 16 VLS can pack 64 ESSM missiles. ESSM is however a short/mid range anti air missile with *little fleet defense and area denial capability.* In case of an air attack, it would not be hard for airborne radars and air-launched anti-ship missiles to *outrange the limited service radius of the ESSM,* placing the defending ship in a very difficult and vulnerable position. In an era where aircraft and anti-ship missiles are becoming more advanced, *longer ranged proper anti-air missiles are needed* since area denial and self defense are more and more becoming one and the same thing. Furthermore, even if we only talked about ESSM, a ship that has 96 VLS for instance could carry 384 of them, which would still be much more firepower (and as such defensive capabilities). We also realize that the F126 is intended with anti-sub as primary role. However, do not forget that *the primary modern anti-sub weapon is the ASROC, a VLS-launched weapon.* With only 16 VLS, you are pretty much forced to decide *between ASROCs or air defense,* a difficulty a ship like the *30 years older* Arleigh Burke would not need to face. For 10000 tons, this "anti-sub frigate" offers no significant anti-sub capabilities other multipurpose destroyers could not offer - There are no larger spaces for helicopter operations, there are no indications of special detection systems said multipurpose destroyers could not use, and there isn't a lot of capacity for anti-sub weapons. Instead, "anti-sub" apparently just means is that it simply *lacks the capabilities* to do other missions while remaining average at best and limited at worst in its intended role. VLS are general purpose weapons. VLS is what determines your capabilities for long range ground attacks, anti-ship warfare, fleet air defense and area denial, self defense, anti ballistic missile defense, and if it comes to it, nuclear strike capability. Remember that VLS is not just a weapon of a modern warship, it is *_the_* weapon of a modern warship. Building a warship with few of them is building a warship that is handicapped in everything.
Let's be honest here, even a 160 km long range Missile can easily be outranged by pretty much any air launch platform, be it by using standoff missiles, or just staying below the radar horizon. The ESSM II and the RAM Block 2b's are some of the best missiles out there for defending against anti ship missiles of any type. And yes a ship with 114/122 missiles is very well equipped.
"little fleet defense and area denial capability." Its not its roll, the ESSM for the F126 is for self defense only. 64 missiles for AA is a standard lay-out. " the primary modern anti-sub weapon is the ASROC" No its not, its the Helicopter. The F126 carrys 2!!
A 10,000 ton warship in today's world should have at least 64 VLS cells. 16 VLS cells is not enough even if quad packing ER SM-2 missiles. Can we all say sitting duck?
10,000 tonnes for just 15 Mk41 VLS is honestly a joke, border line scam. Other navies ships with that size can carry 4x to 6x the amount of VLS. Well not surprised that Germany likes to pay for expensive, under-armed warships
it is a anti SUBMARINE ship. The F127 will have the AA role in the future. As in a case of war those ships will most likely only operate in the Atlantic-, Baltic- and Mediterranean see, there won't be contested air spaces as the Russian Air Force won't be able to do much there.
Don't you think the decision makers have thought carefully about how many weapons will be needed? After all, it is a military ship that is only there to use weapons. Maybe there are special reloading mechanisms, maybe there are additional weapons that we don't know about and maybe additional weapon components can be quickly installed in an emergency. Hopefully we'll never find out.
AAW is what the F127 will be for, replacing the F124. The F126 is replacing the F123. Either way, it's got a solid land attack option with its Vulcano gun system -- with guided munitions and ranges exceeding 54 nautical miles, the cannon should be entirely sufficient for these ships' mission profile.
Applies to most ships doesn't it? Sure 106 Air defence missiles is not the most out there, but is it really bad? Daring class Type 45 Destroyer: 48 AD missiles. Future Type 26 frigate: planned for 48 AD missiles. Horizon class: 48 AD missiles Aquitaine class: up to 32 AD missiles. FDI frigate: up to 45 AD missiles. If it is numbers you are concerned about, don't worry, the F126 is pretty well armed.
It is useless trying to rationalize the 16 VLS. It is still a joke to use a 10,000 tons for 16 VLS. Thinking about the variety of missile weapons (anti aircraft, anti ballistic, anti ship, rocket torpedos, etc) this 10,000 ships has only short-medium range AA missiles! Add the lack of CIWS and energy weapons. Looks like they think they should defend ONLY against one kind of threat. I guess they need some space for a beer factory and a couple of pubs.
Big imprisev ship but lightly armed the German navy is worse than the British navy when it comes to weapon fit on there ships pathetic 16 vls cells a ship of that size 10.000 tons should have had least 124 vls cells
For all the people wondering why it only has 16 VLS cells: First of all they will mostly use ESSM, 64 of which can fit in those VLS cells which is a considerable amount. Secondly, they also have two RIM 162 launchers for short ranges (below 10km) with 42 aditional missles combined. What has to be considered is that this is a antisubmarine frigate. The F127 will be the future german air defense frigate. If this ship(f126) is used to, let's say stop russian subs from entering the Atlantic and is therefore somewhere near Iceland, what exactly would it need that much air defense for? Russian ships and bombers would be detected and engaged long before they reach Iceland (in this example). You simply do not need more air defense on this ship considering the role it's supposed to fulfill.
its just for its tonage,10,000 tons(cruiser level) , there is simple not enough armement compair to its similar tonage counterparts around the world. people just wonder what do the Germans do with all that space? why not put more VLS on board
@@liran547 Richard explained that the extra space was needed to make the mission modules exchangeable.
@@galactic-guy for 10,000 tonne ship, whatever you said it is still a not efficient design. All these features can be put into 6-7,000 tonne design
@@Nainara32 other ships can have those mission modules plus more VLS and towed array sonars at 30% smaller size....so still not efficient
The importance of comfort on such units is often underestimated. Many navies have great difficulty manning their ships (including the UK).
The Bundeswehr is a professional army and competes with the private sector.
The time of press gangs is over.
Soldiers must feel comfortable.
One of the main reasons for the size.
German, 60. The criticism of too few VLS cells actually points to a frightening lack of knowledge of where Germany is geographically located and who the enemy would actually be, because the design of a warship is based on this. Over the Mediterranean and the North and Baltic Seas, the European NATO states already have complete air superiority over the Russian air force thanks to their land-based air force bases. The South Atlantic and the Indian or even Pacific Oceans are out of the question logistically. So why fill a ship with numerous VLS cells?
Also completely ignoring the fact that this is an ASW Frigate...
danke √√√
@@michaelneuwirth3414 so why design 10,000 tonnes ship with 16x VLS instead of 7,000 tonnes ship with 48x VLS 😅😅
@@patta8388 7,000 tonne ASW frigate can do even better than this german ship
To carry more fuel or electricity + future modules @@LuqmanHM
I assume those 16 launchers will be quad packed. So 64 missiles in the deck VLS.
He said exactly that. Plus the 22 Rams' the 11 bow and 11 stern isn't to bad a lay out.
@@stunick1573 don't forget that they can put up to 32 x IRIS-T SLM inside about 4 above deck 1-teu container
@@stunick1573 21 per RAM launcher. But who is counting, right.
@@stunick1573 but you can simple add more VLS on board ya? its a freaking 10,000 ton ship with the armement of a 4,000 ton standard, what do they do with all that space?
@@liran547 Yes, sure.
I like the superstructure slick design
All Damen ships look great! Check out the ASWF!
95% of the people here have zero understanding of naval warfare, the german mission profile and can't pay attention to what's being said in the video...
Nope, you are just ignorant dude
Ah yes the company that has been building war ships for the past 150 years doesn’t know what it’s doing. Suuuuuure thing buddy
@@MrJimheeren Who said something about the company or the design? I'm talking about the armchair generals in the comments
@@LuqmanHM You seem to understand more about it than all the engineers put together. But actually you're just a pathetic smart arse
@@patta8388 sure, but those "armchair generals" are not as bad as the fool who pulled an arbitrary % out of his behind and added a ridiculous absolutism like "zero understanding" to it, if anything you only made yourself the joke of the comment section
Ppl need to understand that not every large surface combatant is like an Arleigh Burke ffs. This is an ASW frigate. Its main purpose is to fight submarines in an environment where NATO already has air superiority, aka the Norwegian Sea. It’s air warfare complex is perfectly adequate for self defense and local AAW, featuring 2x RAM launchers and 16x Mk41 VLS cells for a total of 42x RIM-116 RAM point defense missiles and 64x ESSM II medium range missiles. The size is down to heavy automation, reducing its required crew complement from 220 on the F123 down to 114 on the F126, as well as long endurance systems giving this class a theoretical non stop deployment time of 2 full years without returning to port. The future air defense frigate of the german navy is the F127, this one ain’t.
Yeah but the enemy won’t care if you are just an ASW ship, they will see the size of the surface vessel and dispatch appropriate firepower…
@@thealvatar6181lmao look at the 12 year old yapping
@@thealvatar6181 how is that supposed to be an argument? You're acting like every surface combatant only acts as a lone wolf, seeking out 1:1 engagements. Have you ever heard of the small, totally insignificant concept of a Surface Action Group?
@@thealvatar6181 I forgot war in the 21st century is a long line of 1v1 battles, like the RUclips videos! Wow!
@@thealvatar6181 Ah, right, the enemy with teleporting missiles that don't need to get to the area of operations, magically crossing thousands of miles to appear close to the frigate and overwhelm it.
May I suggest you grab yourself a map of Europe?
16 VLS cells, quadpacked ESSM, ´that is enough, let us not forget that this is not an AAW frigate. The Type 127is going to be the long-range AAW and BMD ship. So everybody who is moaning about "only" sixteen cells...just shut it.
What about VLASROC if it's an ASW frigate?
@@Cornflake520to my understanding a frigate's main asw weapon is a helicopter launched torpedo
@@Cornflake520rocket torpedoes are out of date. The average „modern“ ASW distance is around 45-50km, even more depending on the conditions. Meanwhile VL ASROC has a maximum range of 7.5km. If you’re that close to a submarine, you’ve already been sunk
Yeah but the enemy won’t care if you are just an ASW ship, they will see the size of the surface vessel and dispatch appropriate firepower…
the genius of ship design: 64 ESSM is all I need ... say hello to a Zircon
Dutch design and technical quality, which will prevail together with Germany. Now our Dutch navy need to order these in the future as a replacement for the 4 LCF Zeven Provincieen class Frigates. But with better VLS load out and Tomahawks
Dutch navy won’t order this ship, cooperation with Germany is out of the window. Instead the new FUAD ships for the Dutch navy will be designed by COMMIT and built by Damen. And will have much more VLS including Tomahawk missiles.
@@obud3777 ooh that will take a long time..commit..kon marine...bad decision makers.
@@manuellangius2896 No, the bad decision makers are the Germans!
@@obud3777German crew and technical requirements are out of whack with dutch requirements. So in effect they'd have to design 2 ships.
The germans also want Aegis radar/combat systems. That's not happining for the Dutch. We'll buy Thales.
10k+ tons and only 16VLS. Why do the Germans do this?
I have the same question
Splitting the radars into two separate parts of the superstructure will be part of it. Not a great issue, steel is cheap and air is free, better to have greater redundancy to aid survivability.
German engineering and crew facilty/room standards are overly complicated and over specced.
Think saunas. Ultra wide gang and stairways and very spacious crew compartments. Cable runs and ducting are very over provisioned as well.
And ofcourse WW2 trauma.
0:36 did hear what xavier said
This ship is a submarine menace in MW.
To formulate it positively: At least it has VLS. Not that that should be mentioned about a vessel that size but it should be about a German vessel...
Well, the F125 class was ordered in 2007 and designed even before that. Around that time, up to 20% of the Bundeswehr land forces were stationed in the North of Afghanistan and the Americans requested allies with capabilities for asymmetric warfare.
And the F125 is actually better suited for that role than any other ship of that size in all of NATO. It's significantly larger than than the class it was meant to replace but had barely half the crew. Emphasis was put on stealth and hardened computers and electronics. It was built around the concept that crews get rotated 4 times a year, while the ship can stay deployed for up to 2 years, providing a swimming operations base for about 100 Allied special forces, who could conduct missions using transport/support helicopters and two large RHIBs, with 80 km pinpoint fire support from the Otobreda that canfire up to 16 Volcano rounds/min.
Some of those capabilities are used in the F126 as well, but not a lot. After spending their Christmas money on two additional F126 and 2 Type 212 C/D, the navy is now spending over a billion to keep the F123 in service well into the 2030s and trying to find a suitable role for the F125. For example the mission containers will be equipped with an Iris-T SLM.
VLS cell count is not that important with quad-packed Sea Sparrows. With 64 ESSM and 42 RAM it is armed quite well in comparison to other European navies who might use SYLVER, even if they have 32 or 40 cells. It can protect itself against any kind of aerial threat.
For ASW, other things are more important: F126 is very silent, enduring and comprises a state-of-the-art sensor suite. Effective submarine hunting is only possible from the air anyway, VLS-launched torpedoes are just a gimmick for a rapid close-range response, not for active warfare.
Also, because of the reference to F125: It is, for the time being, quite useful: Baden-Württemberg has sailed around the world for a year, now it's on a training station and after that it will be on the UNIFIL deployment, all without a major repair stop. With conventional ships, it would have taken 2 or even 3 changes of ships. So at the moment, a lot of our limited fleet capacity can be used elsewhere because F125 can do the basic missions. It gives the navy time to rebuild and use more ships to monitor the baltic sea.
Wow. Wondering for a smaller size offer without the 2 islands
Is there a useful practical example of the use of these interchangeable modules?
Yes - on small corvettes...
No. There isn’t. The ordered module is the prison module to smuggle more illegals officially into Germany.
Electronic warfare systems
Towed array system for anti-submarine warfare
Mine countermeasure capability
Decompression chamber
A module for detention
@hansmeyer7225 yes, true, but still - from a ship that size you can kind of expect that there should be way enough space and capacity to integrate fixed ASW and EW systems. Especially ASW when the ships are even designated to that role
@@matthiasradtke3874 Well I guess initially there was no ASW focus. It was more like one of several capabilities.
The German Navy has only recently started selling the F126 as a ship with primarily an ASW focus.
Because ASW is in high demand throughout NATO. You can see this as even the old F123 will receive a big upgrade including a towed sonar. Despite her limited remaining service time in the German Navy.
I don't know what exactly an EW module will look like but every F126 will be equipped in its basic configuration with the R&S KORA 40 EWS.
The F124's EW capabilities will be upgraded with the same KORA 40 EWS albeit the F124 will receive some additional components for Electromagnetic Countermeasures.
I don't know. Possibly the Electromagnetic Countermeasures part will be implemented through the EW Module for the F126 but with much bigger capabilities.
We are proud about the new F126 Class which is a coorparation of the really good Partner and friendship countries Germany and the Netherlands. It is an impresive ship and it is planed with only 16 vls Cells but there is space for more and I think...this ship will get more. But ..the VLS is only one weapons system. The F126 is a powerfull ship for multirole. Nice designed from Netherlands!!!
@@DBond-bv2oi There is no friendship between the Netherlands and Germany! We will never forget or forgive the occupation and Genocide committed by the Germans!
👍
No there is no space for additional VLS. You wont be able to give any source for that claim because there is none. :D
@@HansPeters1234 wir werden sehen wie die Schiffe final ausgerüstet sind.
@@DBond-bv2oi So wie im Video gezeigt (was VLS angeht). Du stellst dir Beschaffungsvorgänge deutlich flexibler vor als sie in Realität sind. Da ist nicht viel mit Flexibilität und die Verträge bzw Vorlaufzeiten sind sehr lang.
the Indian Navy should consider acquiring the next generation F126 frigate . . . the F126 class is a 9,632 ton (10,845 ton loaded) stealth guided missile advanced warfare frigate powered by iFuelCell® e-HYBRId™ M-HEP system . . . the F126 is best suited for long range diversified deployments across the world's oceans & seas . . . perfect for port visits with friendly foreign navies half way across the world . . .
Just acquire those systems and use local design ships
I'm gonna be honest but export to India won't go through any time soon even if they were ready to pay immediatly.
Looks nice.
from what we can understand it will be a ship intended to operate with a naval group in order to guarantee an ASW capability even very far from home seas, other units offered anti-aircraft capability, the dream of every navy in the world to be able to afford specialized ships.
The people who complain should first find out: 1. Where is the German Navy's area of operation? 2. What potential opponents do they have? 3. What role do they play in the NATO alliance! In the North Sea/Baltic Sea area, the Russians operate with submarines and rarely with a large number of warships.
Atlantic convey and oversea deployment
@@EK-gr9gd If it is against Russia, then definitely not! That will be taken over by the NATO countries that border the Atlantic. Or would you send capacities from the US coast to the North Sea if you were to take action against a country in your own backyard?
@@ch.k.3377 Standing NATO Maritime Group One
This should also have an 8 cell Mk41 vls for VLASROC for long range ASW in addition to the 16 cell vls shown at the front..
Richard Keulen my old naval commander! Such a nice men
Incidentally, it is not very difficult to place more VLS cells on the bow. By removing the RAM launcher, there is sufficient space for 40 VLS cells.
Amidships, on top of the top deck, containers can be placed for Iris-T or Barak-ER missiles. There is sufficient space for at least 24 of these missiles. The Dutch navy places 32 Barak-ER missiles on a ship of 500 tons. There are enough options to increase the firepower of these ships.
Jewel of the seas.!!
Would make a nice and safe yacht 😅
10500 tonnes with only 16 cell VLS system?
Theses ships do have more missiles! For CIWS there are two additional RAM-Launchers with 42 RAMs Block II!
Why such large ships for AWS? And of course the size with only 16 VLSs immediately gives criticism as well. Is this not a multi-purpose blue navy peacekeeping frigate?
I think it's a cool ship and much better for the german navy than f125... But more VLS cells would be nice too, even if it is ASW.
16x4 is enough for an ASW, and if need be, there's mission modules for more.
The F125 is an abroad cruiser, which can provide a flag ship for any SAG.
A potential weakpoint for this F126 firgate is the center between the masts, since the two masts act as lateral limits of a large target for long range fire, missiles, etc.
I can assure you that that empty space between the two masts is not a weak point.
That... is not how missile guidance systems work.
It is quite the opposite. It's called two-island-principle: Because of this design, it is almost impossible to incapacitate a warship with a single hit. It is used for most major warships in NATO navies.
They look badass but i also hope they never have to be used.
the problem is not specs but takes to long to make and shaping single ship. 1 year per ship means it takes +1 year atleast tobe ready so 2-3 years after starts they would be ready for service, then comes another ptoblems .. undermanned, and underbudget for maintenance.
Get more yards and you are quicker. These ships are build in modules. TKMS calls its "family" MEKO. You can build them as fast as you want and your suppliers send it their components.
@@EK-gr9gdthese are not TKMS ships. They are mostly built in german shipyards but are designed by Damen (Netherlands).
@blablubb12345
I gave the MEKO System just as an example. Litton Ingalls had something similar (Wasp Class).
Persenjataannya sangat minimalis,
Why would they order this oversized and underarmed thing for so much money when the Dutch and Belgians have a common ASW frigatte design as well? Why not join forces? Why waste money?
Definitely!
Can we not expect the decision-makers to know what they are doing?
Remember the phrase, "It's going to be the backbone of the Navy going forward". Keeps long term costs down as well.
The same reason as why thw caracal won and not defenture with their airmobile vehicles.... Cuz the germans only want their own over engineered stuff that is 2x more expensive and less capable all in the name of "german made"
@@texasranger24 Because they are Germans, they want big stairs and saunas on their ships, and they like to over complicate things, I’m glad that the Dutch navy is not longer involved with the German navy and will go their own way.
This interview is a bit confusing tbh. These ships will only ever carry 1 module at a time. You cant really carry multiple modules afaik. Maybe detention but that one is useless af anyway.
A frigate that is as heavy a WWII cruiser.
Europe uses the term Frigate to describe destroyer size ships because of ship treaties im pretty sure
@montys420- there's no treaties regarding that. European navies love to classify their ships as frigates even though they're as heavy as a modern-day destroyer to secure more funding from their parliament.
It sounds less expensive when you're buying 6 frigates vs. buying 6 destroyers.
@@paulsteavenIt has nothing to do with prices. It's purely political especially in Germany. Same reason Japan officially only has self defence forces and no military
@paulsteaven idk about that I've heard several former seaman mention this on their Navy channels as well as other like HI Sutton I think, 🤔
@@galactic-guy I'm fairly sure that's an internet myth: the only reason Japan has a ""self defence force"" is because the occupying US authorities compelled them to add this to their constitution, but Germany has no such restrictions and in fact was incentivized to rearm quickly after WW2 in order to counter the Soviets during the Cold War.
What I've read is that, quite simply, destroyers are generalists whilst frigates are specialists. The German navy has begun to add more and more capabilities to its frigate classes, but they retain a focus on a specific area. I'd agree there's an argument to be made they *could* also be seen as destroyers, but the reason that isn't done could be as simple as them being official successors to frigate classes.
A big problem is that, by now, this kind of terminology has been twisted through decades of maritime evolution and unequal upscaling to the point where two countries would even classify the exact same ship differently. Fun fact: the British call every ASW ship a frigate and every AA vessel a destroyer. Accordingly, their Type-26 is both a frigate AND a destroyer, depending on whether you're referring to the ASW or the AA variant.
Its better 32 to 48 VLS and 8x8 Anti-Ship Missile
64 anti ship missiles? Crazy!
This is an ASW Frigate...
Oh let’s also give it land attack capability too! Oh wait it’s just an Ohio class SSBN
@@princecor2108 Naval Group !!! The FRENCH POWER !!! 💪 🇫🇷 👍 😘😘😘😘😘
16 VLS but 64 missiles?
4 * ESSM per Mk 41 VLS
@EK-gr9gd 1 VLS have 4 missiles?
@@AlexMarcaban Yes, ESSM can be "quaded".
독일의 군함 설계, 건조 능력이 놀랍다. 이런 군함은 해안 경비선인가?
Nice design, but i realy do wonder why they are only building frigates? I dont mean they should build aircraft carriers, but maybe some destroyers and a few cruisers?
"Destroyer" and "frigate" have become more or less meaningless distinctions as every country uses its own definition. The British Royal Navy, for example, differentiates them only based on whether it's focused on ASW (frigate) or AA (destroyer), so their new Type 26 is actually both depending on which variant you're looking at. 😃
F126 is going to be the largest surface combatant to join the German Navy since the end of WW2, with twice as much displacement as the three Lütjens-class destroyers it had from the 70s to 2003, so there's definitely some "upscaling" going on there, too. We can probably expect this trend to continue. Personally, I'd like to see a large cruiser just because these ships are so majestic, but of course its cost and vulnerability would have to be justified by mission profile.
At one point there was even talk of Germany joining an EU coalition to share a single joint aircraft carrier, but I'm sure this initiative is quite dead at the moment. Maybe at some point, considering where the world is heading these days?
One thing to keep in mind, however, is that the German Navy also has a significant submarine fleet, which would probably be tasked with carrying out the lion's share of anti-ship missions, whereas the frigates are intended more as highly capable support vessels for NATO fleets (in addition to maritime stabilization in peacetime). The Type-212CD stealth uboats currently under construction for Germany and Norway are shaping up to be highly capable hunters .. especially considering even their predecessor already managed to slip through the escort screen of USS Enterprise, scoring a simulated sinking of the aircraft carrier during a NATO maneuver.
This is a very heavy modular frigate class and would have been seen as a destroyer type vessel by most navies.
But in Europe it is probably better to downsize the ships for political acceptance reasons.
It has a very small crew for such a big ship with a helicopter which makes operating costs lower.
Wait and see what the F126 really can do...I think we will be surprised which weapon systems also will installed. We cannot tell all the russian enemies what our future frigate can and cannot. So keep cool...it is better to tell not so much before
I guess that's 90 days endurance
21 days
Only 16 VLS cells? 😧
0:36
4 essm per cell, so 64 missiles for mid range air defence. Beyond that air defence will be covered by the F127 which will have 64 cells.
@@-MarcelDavis- still they should have added more vls cells for anti submarine rockets since its ASW
@@jonlaurenzreyes1902 The available ASW Rocket systems are not suitable for open water ASW anymore- Modern ASW happens at upwards of 50 km. If you are in range for VL-ASROC then you have already been sunk.
@@-MarcelDavis- that leaves no cells for anything else though. No long range AD, or anti-ship/land attack missiles, or even a VLS torpedo.
Even with the NSM, that is only 8 missiles that makes up the ships entire offensive capacity.
𝘽𝙚𝙨𝙩 𝙙𝙚𝙨𝙖𝙞𝙜𝙣 👍🙏
Im Verband zu gebrauchen, aber wenn`s mal einsam wird, dann ist es so als ob man einen Soldaten mit nur einem Magazin los schickt, ziemlich unterbewaffnet!
10.000tons 16 cells what the heck?😅
0:36 Xavier said "Focused on anti-submarine warfare"..
@@JeffBee-vo3gf a 10,000 ton ship for ASW is ridiculous.
@@JeffBee-vo3gf And it actually makes sense, keeping Russian submarines out off the Atlantic, Baltic Sea and North Sea.
@beibei93 Yes, just understand how ASW works and how different each countries own strategy.
16 x 4 essm
Seems like very few modular options, not optimistic from Damen.
There's a whole lotta opinion for very little knowledge in this comment section.
1:04 Why are they doing ships that are moving on steam in 2024?
He doesn’t refer to the propulsion system but that construction progresses at a fast pace. The F126 frigates will be powered by a combined diesel and diesel-electric system :)
🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩💪👍
🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩💪👍
Ridiculous to use US system when you can have with MBDA made in France/Europe tjis type of military luncher
Naval news should come to india with these kinds of interviews.
What's with all the angry comments addressed to "people"?! Just chill guys...
Made in România 🇷🇴
We Americans complain that the Constellation frigates has only 32 VLS. 64 would have been reasonable given that 90% of the ship is a new design (classic bait and switch). I don't feel so bad in comparison to Germans having to cope with their Navy spending money on a 10K ton ship with only 16 VLS. Why do European Navies have so few missiles on their ships? Imagine this ship confronting the Houthis. If a US Burke destroyer with 96 VLS was stressed about running out of missiles I can't imagine this ship lasting for a month before having to sail back to friendly port to re-arm.
It has 16 cells for 64 Anti Air missiles. It also has 2 other anti air missile systems of a shorter range, these can fire 21 missiles each.
> Why do European Navies have so few missiles on their ships?
Because we have no intention of fighting in the Pacific or other places far from home. This ship's role is ASW in the north sea, baltic and mediterranean, and keeping submarines out of the atlantic. This ship operates close enougn to NATO mainland to be covered by air superiority. Unlike US ships which usually operate far from home, and thus need to carry a lot more missiles.
@firnen_ This one carries 106 anti aircraft missiles, which it can shoot off if it is fully loaded. Not bad for an anti submarine ship.
I don’t know if you know this but Germany is in Europe. This ship is perfect for that role. You won’t see this ship fighting the Houthi’s as a lone wolf, what the f is that idea even lmao
The German Navy seems very reserved. Think for example of the largest naval ship in the Netherlands (also Damen) His Majesty Karel Doorman (205m). This ship was once built for the German Navy, but was cancelled whereupon the Dutch Navy took over the ship. The German Marines or the Sea Battalion, do borrow the Dutch ship Karel Doorman for their overseas missions.
The German Navy never ordered such a ship from Damen.
The Karel Doorman wasn't built for the German Navy.
Much like America's Burke Class destroyer, this ship ... at over 10,000 tons ... is quickly approaching light cruiser size. Calling it a "frigate" is just odd or misleading in some (unimportant) way. Also, to only install 16 Mk. 41 cells - for a ship of this size is also odd. It would make me think that the ship is either not going to be carrying long-range AAM's like the SM6 or one of those module positions they kept going on about might be for more Mk.41 cells - depending on the mission requirements. I am not a German admiral .. I can only guess.
16 cells carrying 4 missiles each, pay some attention lmaoo
It only carries ESSM (4x16 missiles) plus 2 RAM launchers (42 missiles). It is ASW focused, not AAW. For its purpose it is well enough armed, question is just why it needs a 10k tons ship design for that.
It's not about size, it's about mission profile. The 126 is going to be an ASW Frigate
@@Rockeviltwin Design choice and mission profile. The F126 has a stronger hull, making it less dependent on Icebreakers in arctic conditions. It also features a two island design, were every important component (including OPZ) is available at least twice in seperate parts of the ship, making it much more survivable in case of a heavy hit.
It features enough space for two NH90 Sea-Tiger helicopters with full ASW and ASuW armament, plus (not or) UAVs.
It also features enough space for 2 large RHIBs along the sides and 1 well deck for an other RHIB or UUVs and towed sonar arrays.
And space for future laser based weapon systems.
Finally if you compare crew quarters of the F125 and an Arleigh Burke Destroyer, it becomes pretty obvious where a lot of space is going.
Same Reason why the future replacement of the AB has a design displacement of 14000 tonnes without increasing the number weapons.
You just can't design ships like you're in the 80s anymore...
A complete waste of space. when I first heard the figure of 64 missiles i wasn't expecting that to mean quad packed ESSM.
Sure it's size allows flexibility in it's role, but are you REALLY sending a10000t ship to do MCM. No you are not.
Xavier has serious issues talking about german vessel in every related video. I wonder why he carries the arch enemy stance into the future. And why not any other reporter can do the job in regards to german vessels instead of him. At least it didn't get as awful as in the submarine video. Professional journalism looks different!
Bait title its only a toy...
Make sure that's frigate?..😅
it would be more crazy if they call it a destroyer with only that firepower
A large ship but its destructive power is small,. 16 vls😮
That's quadpacked VLS ESSM. That's 64 missiles.
Love the logic, "Qualifies as a Frigate" then point's out it's over 110 meters length and 10,000 tons while pointing at a modern Destroyer. What is with not calling them Destroyers? Is it a taboo subject? Likens back to a certain mad man Dictator we can sell it but it has to be a Frigate or the Government won't buy it. The gun system even screams destroyer.
What counts is the vessel we get; not what we call it ;)
Germany had destroyers post WW2. This isn’t a destroyer because its usecase is different. It’s not about size or displacement.
@BananananaJoe I get that however.... It's still Destroyer size and Destroyer's are also used in Anti Sub anti air especially when it's the "Backbone" of the fleet. It was also mentioned in the interview vaguely that it's a policial naming issue the guy almost apologized for calling it a Frigate.
@@matthiashartge5520 That's the problem these days you let politician's have their way and you get stupid naming because stupid reasons. The Sheep can go back to sleep the Department of misinformation has deemed it a Frigate so no worries.
@@stunick1573 And even if it’s a political decision? What’s the problem?
Modern Kreigsmarine motto: "More ship, less war".
10k Ton is a Destroyer…but I guess the underpowered armaments make it a Frigate.
dude live in past.
the ship dont get no longer classified by size
10k Ton ships for anti submarine warfare with 16 VLS? That is a big joke😂😂😂
Why? If you want to keep russian subs out of the atlantic and patrol near Greenland for example, you don't really need a lot of air defense
@galactic-guy yah Anti submarine warfare with 10k tons ships is a big joke.
64 online coper, learn the basics, its a new generation of cells.
@@hanssiegling8262 yah 10k ton of ship for anti submarine warfare still a big joke
@@muhammadiman3840 look at the specifications. It's high automation and long deployment times will be uncompareable to any ASW ship present in NATO right now. It will be the best ASW ship NATO can offer.
2028 to be done? and 1 made a year. The manufacturer is enjoying vacation and making ship and the same time? Russian will invade Euro before German could see this ship.
🤦♂Luckily the German Navy already has other ships in service...
It doesn't mean that. it takes 4 years to build and test those ships before it is handed over to the German Navy. they start building each ship with approx 1-year delay between each other, thus they are delivered 1 year after each other.
Building the hull and superstructure doesn't take long, a year perhaps. But installing all the equipment, machinery, electronics etc., and testing them is what takes a long time, something they can do while the ship is in the water.
So when the first hull is done built and put into the water (1 year approx), they start to build the second hull where they built the first hull. The First hull will stay dockside and get all equipment installed and tested
How could Russia attack NATO if it can't even defeat poor little Ukraine?
Lol, said the same. 1 per year???!! Pathetic 🤣
@@Broodjemetbeleg Do you know what I find pathetic? The smoking Russian aircraft carrier, whose crew has now been destroyed at the front!!! Or the ridiculous North Korean troops that Russia needs, like accepting help from the Iranians! This is ridiculous!
Ive been a long term supporter of Naval News
Today I was disappointed with N.N. for the 1st time after watching this video
They avoided asking the critical question of why so little VLS on this 10K ton ship?
It is not for Damen to answer this question but rather the German Navy. If we interview the German Navy one day, we will make sure to ask them.
Answered half a minute in. It's an ASW Frigate, not a Destroyer.
@@patta8388 Yeah but the enemy won’t care if you are just an ASW ship, they will see the size of the surface vessel and dispatch appropriate firepower…
@thealvatar6181 There's only one potential enemy that can overwhelm the entire AA armament on a F126.
And in the Baltic sea none of our ships operate alone. They're alongside other ships and pretty much always within range of land based systems as well
Truly a terrible design!
10,000+ tons,
Only 16 vls,
Just 8 ASUW missiles, all of which are crusier missiles, so they're not very survivable against modern air defences, meaning they're unlikely to reach the target and only have a range of 130 nmi,
Lacks any AAW cannons (23mm SeaSnake is not a AAW gun, the Japanese suffered extensively against prop planes of WW2 because their 25mm gun lacked the range, and stopping power)
They cost €1.6 billion per ship in 2024.
Only 26 knots,
And an insanely short range of just 4000 nmi.
You mean fantastic design, terrible requirements.
Can you give me a single reasonable reason why YOU should know the real data and armament of these ships? What would be the point of informing you about the facts? Are you so important that you need to know this?
@FestungEuropa.v what are you talking about?
@@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617 Don't you think the military had something in mind when they ordered these ships? Are you more capable than the military experts?
@@FestungEuropa.v Name one aspect of these ships that is superior to its competitors?
Germany has fallen
German is not alone
After the failed F125 frigates which are basicly lightly armed cruise ships now we get another failed design.
RIP german tax payer money.
The problems of the F125 are largly solved, and it is now seen as one of the most capeable ships of it's kind. It is not a "failed design" at all.
Looooool 1 ship per year????!!! Meanwhile china builds 20 in the same timeframe 🤣🤣
So? China also has 16 times the population of Germany so I don't get what your point is.
The F-126 will be very under armed. Sixteen VLS are not enough. A ship this size could carry at least four times that.
The F127 is meant for air defense but the F126 is not
you didn’t pay attention, the 16 cells carry 64 missiles. So it does carry 4x what you think it did
This is an ASW Frigate. It's more than enough armed for that job.
VLS cells isnt the only thing that matters.
@@patta8388 Yeah but the enemy won’t care if you are just an ASW ship, they will see the size of the surface vessel and dispatch appropriate firepower…
The Korean Sejong the Great-class destroyer, about the same size as the German 'Frigate' has 96 VLS. This German ship only has 16, which is ridicules. Even the UK frigates will have 48 VLS.
... and they are cheaper.
And neither of those are ASW Frigates. Congratulations, you don't even understand the basics.
@@patta8388 It seems I do know that the UK Type 26 Frigate is an ASW frigate, with 48 VLS, and is smaller that the German ASW 'frigate', which only has 16 VLS.
It's true the Type 31 is a light general purpose frigate with limited ASW capability.
@@Music5362 not quad stacked, less capable missiles and different profile. The Type 26 is an excellent ship. For the needs of the UK.
It does not have the versatility and deployment length of a F126.
When it comes to SAM's, the difference isn't that big btw, as in addition to the quad stacked VLS, the F126 carries 48 RAMs.
Compared to the Dutch, Italian/French frigates for instance, the F126 also doesn't stand out that much.
Before you look at the armament, you always have to look at the mission profile and the mission areas.
And then the F126 is armed well enough.
@@patta8388 I'm sure these ships will be very good & capable. Having more VLS will allow ASROC and cruise missiles etc. to be accommodated. Such a large ship should easily be able to accommodate a few more.
To everyone who says "16 VLS is enough",
yes, we acknowledge 16 VLS can pack 64 ESSM missiles. ESSM is however a short/mid range anti air missile with *little fleet defense and area denial capability.* In case of an air attack, it would not be hard for airborne radars and air-launched anti-ship missiles to *outrange the limited service radius of the ESSM,* placing the defending ship in a very difficult and vulnerable position. In an era where aircraft and anti-ship missiles are becoming more advanced, *longer ranged proper anti-air missiles are needed* since area denial and self defense are more and more becoming one and the same thing. Furthermore, even if we only talked about ESSM, a ship that has 96 VLS for instance could carry 384 of them, which would still be much more firepower (and as such defensive capabilities).
We also realize that the F126 is intended with anti-sub as primary role. However, do not forget that *the primary modern anti-sub weapon is the ASROC, a VLS-launched weapon.* With only 16 VLS, you are pretty much forced to decide *between ASROCs or air defense,* a difficulty a ship like the *30 years older* Arleigh Burke would not need to face. For 10000 tons, this "anti-sub frigate" offers no significant anti-sub capabilities other multipurpose destroyers could not offer - There are no larger spaces for helicopter operations, there are no indications of special detection systems said multipurpose destroyers could not use, and there isn't a lot of capacity for anti-sub weapons.
Instead, "anti-sub" apparently just means is that it simply *lacks the capabilities* to do other missions while remaining average at best and limited at worst in its intended role. VLS are general purpose weapons. VLS is what determines your capabilities for long range ground attacks, anti-ship warfare, fleet air defense and area denial, self defense, anti ballistic missile defense, and if it comes to it, nuclear strike capability. Remember that VLS is not just a weapon of a modern warship, it is *_the_* weapon of a modern warship. Building a warship with few of them is building a warship that is handicapped in everything.
Let's be honest here, even a 160 km long range Missile can easily be outranged by pretty much any air launch platform, be it by using standoff missiles, or just staying below the radar horizon. The ESSM II and the RAM Block 2b's are some of the best missiles out there for defending against anti ship missiles of any type.
And yes a ship with 114/122 missiles is very well equipped.
"little fleet defense and area denial capability."
Its not its roll, the ESSM for the F126 is for self defense only. 64 missiles for AA is a standard lay-out.
" the primary modern anti-sub weapon is the ASROC"
No its not, its the Helicopter. The F126 carrys 2!!
A 10,000 ton warship in today's world should have at least 64 VLS cells. 16 VLS cells is not enough even if quad packing ER SM-2 missiles. Can we all say sitting duck?
maybe it has very high standred living quarters and entertainment areas for da marine
@@liran547 LOL. Good one.
You just said exactly what it is, 16x4 VLS Cells.
Can we all say ships don’t operate as a lone wolf in today’s world?
This ship needs more guns the Baltic is close to shore everywhere which means there is a major drone threat.
10,000 tonnes for just 15 Mk41 VLS is honestly a joke, border line scam. Other navies ships with that size can carry 4x to 6x the amount of VLS. Well not surprised that Germany likes to pay for expensive, under-armed warships
it is a anti SUBMARINE ship. The F127 will have the AA role in the future. As in a case of war those ships will most likely only operate in the Atlantic-, Baltic- and Mediterranean see, there won't be contested air spaces as the Russian Air Force won't be able to do much there.
To all German taxpayers, this is a waste of your tax money. No one would say that Germany, an economic superpower, would build cool ships.
Don't you think the decision makers have thought carefully about how many weapons will be needed? After all, it is a military ship that is only there to use weapons. Maybe there are special reloading mechanisms, maybe there are additional weapons that we don't know about and maybe additional weapon components can be quickly installed in an emergency. Hopefully we'll never find out.
It's not supposed to be a "cool" bristling cruiser. It's a ASW Frigate with insanely long endurance, high automation and low crew demands.
Dude, really ? That arrogant and also totally unedicated ? Sad....just sad....
@@MakeSomeNoisePlaylists What exactly do you mean? And who.
This design is woefully inadequate. 10,000 tonnes and only 16 VLS !! WHF ? Should have 64 or 48 and 2 x quad NSM launchers.
ASW? 🤦♂️ Germany need a solid land attack capability with AAW
AAW is what the F127 will be for, replacing the F124. The F126 is replacing the F123. Either way, it's got a solid land attack option with its Vulcano gun system -- with guided munitions and ranges exceeding 54 nautical miles, the cannon should be entirely sufficient for these ships' mission profile.
Needs a sign that says: “DON’T SHOOT AT US WITH TOO MANY MISSILES PLEASE, THIS IS AN ASW SHIP!!!…”
Applies to most ships doesn't it? Sure 106 Air defence missiles is not the most out there, but is it really bad?
Daring class Type 45 Destroyer: 48 AD missiles.
Future Type 26 frigate: planned for 48 AD missiles.
Horizon class: 48 AD missiles
Aquitaine class: up to 32 AD missiles.
FDI frigate: up to 45 AD missiles.
If it is numbers you are concerned about, don't worry, the F126 is pretty well armed.
Kreigsmarine are back. Numbers needed for the NATO force as the UK is selling their Navy off.
2028... no way that the Caliphate of Europe will invest into surface vessels...
It is useless trying to rationalize the 16 VLS. It is still a joke to use a 10,000 tons for 16 VLS. Thinking about the variety of missile weapons (anti aircraft, anti ballistic, anti ship, rocket torpedos, etc) this 10,000 ships has only short-medium range AA missiles! Add the lack of CIWS and energy weapons. Looks like they think they should defend ONLY against one kind of threat. I guess they need some space for a beer factory and a couple of pubs.
Big imprisev ship but lightly armed the German navy is worse than the British navy when it comes to weapon fit on there ships pathetic 16 vls cells a ship of that size 10.000 tons should have had least 124 vls cells