Central Heating Electrical Wiring - Part 3 - Y Plan
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- Electrical wiring for central heating systems.
Part 3 in the series looks at Y plan wiring, a system which uses a single 3 port valve. This has one inlet and two outlets, one for hot water, the other for central heating. The valve can be set for either outlet separately or both at the same time.
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John Ward is so under rated this guy is giving out gold dust thank you mate 🙏🏻
This guy is brilliant...I'm 64 the money and more important....the TIME...IV spent on these courses over the years.
Ohhhhhh...I wish I had access to John's brain years ago....his very good at it...
Probably the best, informative, well presented, RUclips video I have ever watched. Great work John, thank you for taking the time to create and upload.
Agreed
That moment when your college course fails you and you rely on John Ward to teach you how to pass half of your AM2 Exam.... Cheers mate, you are helping people every day with your attention to detail in every video you make. keep it going!
I guess the course thats being provided to you is a bit pants then.
Part of our c&g L3 plumbing course in center practical test was to wire up a y plan system, and then to pipe up a unvented cylinder with a 2 zone heating system to a combi boiler, and then wire it up appropriately.
Fortunately the college provided wiring diagrams to work from.
I asked the tutor why connect a unvented cyl to a combi, the answer was so that there was instantaneous water near the combi for example in a laundry room, but if the cylinder was next to the bathroom some distance from the combi, this then eliminates a leg of cold water, saves the customer running a pipe full of domestic water off, therefore not wasting water and leaving a pipe full of hot water afterwards. Doing this means you meet the water regs section of not wasting water and part L of the building regs.
The other method of acheveing the same outcome of little to no dhw wasted, would be to have a fully pumped dhw system similar to hotels. I have seen this type of pumped circulating dhw system only 3 times in a domestic situation.
Y and S plan wiring diagrams are available to download, I keep copies of them in my van. But most of my work on y and s plans is replacement of parts. The easiest method is to replace with like for like, as some manufacturers use different colours especially with zone valves, most do supply a conversion chart with their parts.
If your wondering why I'm watching these video's, the answer is I'm looking to change career paths from gas engineering/plumbing to electrician, I've already completed the domestic electrical installers course. Summer time I'm planning to sit the 17th edition exam, and if all goes well, next year return to college to start the c&g electrical course, (returning to college will be interesting, as I'm likely to be a similar age or older then the tutor).
aspudkicker why are you looking to change career paths, if you don’t mind my asking?
A masterful explanation of a complex process, clearly and concisely delivered with no stuttering or pausing for thought.
I still refer back to this video seven years on John could not have explained this better top man
Just watched this as I've got to sort out a few problems on a Y plan heating system . Very very good explanation with no confusing fancy trade talk. As with most things if you understand what it should be doing and exactly how it works, it's so simple so accurately diagnose the fault like a proper engineer and not a guess engineer. Great video John , Many thanks
One of the most underrated channels on RUclips
This has helped me understand my heating system and allowed me to replace the valve motor and pump.
Amazingly clear explanation of it all.
Next will be to re-wire as it is a really big mess!
John thank you very much for this. I don’t think my hot water and central heating have ever worked properly. Took it apart and re-wired as your drawing and it all looks to be great. Thanks again. Love your channel.
I've bought a new house a noticed the Heating only option was not working (could only get heating when hot water was on and heating the cilinder). Thanks to this video (among other info online but this mainly) I pass from not knowing how my system works fully to indeed identifying the problem and solve it (replacing the 3-way valve actuator).
Thank you very much for this free content with such a high quality that is unbelievable !
This video made soo much sense compared to others, love the drawing and the firm and ver clear to understand and that from someone dyslexic. Thanks John a true engineer right here! sub, liked, and shared!
Exceptionally well explained - helped me understand my heating system without any prior knowledge of heating systems wiring. WIFI thermostat inbound 😊
This was invluable in my 'home install' of a Hive system and also upskilled my knowledge of how my heating system works. I agree with the comments below, very clear and easy to understand video, keep up the great work JW!!
Have watched this five times now and learn something new every time. Everything about this video from content to presentation is top drawer! Brilliant diagrams too.
I find that I am watching more and more of your videos. Keep up the good work John.
Great video John. Didn't think my system had been wired correctly- it linked HW&CH together despite having all the hardware to be able to seperate CH only. I'd never bothered with the issue till the price of gas rocketed upwards . Masterful explanations for a non-engineer such as I, you enabled me to re-wire completely and sort it. Thanks
Very clear and precise explanation. Wiring diagram animation is excellent. Thank you.
JW, thanks for going to the trouble to make this. There is a lot of thought and production time in this. It is much better than the plumber’s vids. This step-by-step approach helped me diagnose a faulty programmer, having started out thinking it was the 3 port valve. Your description helped me put in some jumper wires to bypass the programmer to verify it was indeed at fault before I went to Screwfix for a new one. All too often tradesmen just fit new parts until the problem goes away rather than do the diagnosis first. I stripped down the old Drayton LP522 programmer and found the CH relay was OK, but not energising, but could not go any deeper because of the ATMEGA 169P microprocessor driving it. I've posted the programmer to you to see if you can fix the output stage of the CH relay driver for another vid.
This series of videos has been so helpful to me. I have an assessment coming up. Clear and concise. Thank-you John for putting them together. Excellent !
Many thanks for the video, and the layout diagrams. Just implemented the 'S' plan with 2 two port valves. Had to split the wiring between the boiler room, and the hot press where the cylinder was. Ran 6 core cable between them. Worked a treat. Should have done it years ago.
Your video just saved me a plumber callout :) the switch in the actuator wasn't working, meaning central heating on its own wouldn't work, since the switch didn't trigger the boiler and pump to come on. If i ever meet you i owe you some drinks!!!
Absolutely superb breakdown of how this works.
Thank you so much for creating this video, using this video I was able to fit a new Hive system, and I finally have correctly working heating and hot water . The previous system was suffering from a broken room thermostat, but more importantly thanks to your video I realised that the engineer had wired the previous system incorrectly. I would have been lost without your help. thank you.
When you fit the Hive system, after disconnecting your old thermostat lines from the junction box, did you move line 4 from the programmer to line 5 in the junction box?
Thanks JW another great video. I've been doing it for years & is second nature, but it's always good to see an explanation
Hi J.W.. as a heating /plumbing engineer with no love for electrics.. (my colleague does all the electrics) , i have realised how necessary this aspect of the heating game is when it comes to fault finding.
Because of your clear video instructions, i have not only begun to understand this but I also quiet enjoy this new found element of learning.
Thank you sir and keep up the good work.
Thank you for the 3 videos I was able to trace the wires and identify the error in my system. Great clear video
Brilliant series jw, thanks for spending time putting all the parts and a great presentation
Excellent explanation of the Y plan wiring helped me to sort out an issue on my system when fitting a Nest thermostat, the level of detail and explanation are the best on the internet. Keep up the good work. Thankyou
Absolutely amazing channel! Good work!! I’m sure many people appreciate it, I know I do! Thanks
Thank you JW for this and sharing such a crisp and concise mind 👍
Thanks John. Very helpful.
Just watched your videos on central heating Y plans. Really great explanation and graphics you are to be congratulated. Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much for this clear and complete explanation. The animated wiring illustrations are brilliant.
Thank you for a very helpful and informative video.
Excellent presentation. Feel like I'm back with the CEGB in my training days..
Surely in this day and age a simple logic circuit would do all this. Excellent description.
Brilliant explanation. It really helps when you can understand what the jumble of wires in the airing cupboard is doing (or not doing my case). Thanks
Ace. :-)
We have a Y-plan here, and the three-port valve is a SwitchMaster, as is the cylinder thermostat and the room thermostat downstairs. The pump is a Grundfos, the boiler is a Myson HouseWarmer Elegant II, and is in the front room (back-boiler arrangement)
I do know that Horstmann also do programmers and the 3-port device, as well as Honeywell.
Another name in heating controls is Satchwell. We had one of those around our previous house controlling a gas-fired hot-air system (Thorn-Sugg) and what I didn't like about that controller is the POXY thing had the room temperature marked in Farenheit.
The only thing I knew: Spin it to 60, and the heating fires up. :D
Thanxx for showing,
-BoomBoxDeluxe.
_12th November 2015, 01.01_
Thank you sir, you just saved me around £200 quid! You make DYI easy!!
Very helpful explanation, much better than the black and white smeared version in my boiler manual. Thank you!
Very well explained John I'm an electrician and love your videos
Hi John, thank you so much for your videos, they are a great help, I did not get this in my gas training.
I love all your videos, whenever I can't sleep just a few minutes of your dull, monotone ramblings is enough to send me straight to sleep.
Your videos set a very high standard. As a relatively new heating engineer, most of this electrical information presented here would take far longer to achieve in the field and certainly not covered at this level on my gas training course.
Hi this video was fantastic, thank you so much for providing such a clear detailed explanation I just used this to diagnose my heating problem. I found that the Micro switch was not making on the mid valve and would only provide heating when the water was on. Secondly I really enjoyed learning about a heating system as well.
thanks for taking the time to make these
Very interesting and well explained video. Importantly, JW even tells you, if you’re diagnosing a problem, that the only 3 things likely to go wrong are the 2 stats or the 3 port valve 😁
Thanks for the video, it helped me make sense of my wiring when I fitted a Tado smart thermostat. The arrangement seems a bit convoluted, especially having mains voltage thermostats, I was expecting a central controller with everything connected into it. Presumably it was done this way in the age of electromechanical controls and has just stayed the same ti maintain compatibility.
Excellent video John many thanks
Another helpful and clear video from John Ward. My only suggestion would be on the diagrams to colour the lines to the 3 port valve to match the wire colours on the valve.
as ever, great video... but this one comes with a big thank you as well as I have this setup at home and always wondered how it switched between CH & HW just using 1 valve - looking forward to the "inside the 3 port valve" video
Just
Brilliant. What a great explanation. Thanks
very much.
Very well explained much appreciated
Very good explanation - thank you.
This is great video explanation thank you John
Fantastic video, I was able to trouble shoot a problem with the boiler not firing up when the CH only. 3-way valve not providing power. Many thanks.
Another great tutorial, thanks.
This is an excellent video thank you John much appreciated
I’ve found this very interesting as I’m about to change my 3 port valve. Before I do I thought I’d take a look at the wiring centre and have a look at the wiring. Now it was originally done some 26 years ago and it sort of resembles the wiring you describe, but whoever wired it when the house was built never followed this plan, for starters they used a 10 way terminal block, leaving no.10 spare. They wired all the earths to terminal 1, with the blue and white reversed on the terminal block and orange on terminal 5. The only wire on the terminal block to be on it’s correct terminal is Grey on 7. It looks like I’ll be replacing like for like, but I guess 26 years ago there wasn’t a standard diagram for installers to follow, or the installer who put mine together was a maverick!
There are many different wiring arrangements - some are more common than others due to being available in various books and training materials.
Doesn't make any difference electrically, the main thing is to ensure a diagram is provided that identifies all of the terminals.
Hi John. Great video. Just moved into my house and found that when I turn the mains on the boiler the pump comes on straight way regardless where the thermostat set on or even when it’s turned off. Any ideas?
Thanks for clear explanation of the various circuits. Past issues resolved and completely rewired my 8 bar connector from the previous installers poor wiring technique.
Thank you Mr Ward nice video presentation GODBLESS!
Thanks for the reply John. Nothing has changed since the Ch was turned off in March so I suspect it may be the boiler stat or overun stat playing up. Many thanks, G.
Great video, thanks john.
Great video, just wired up a hive and a green star ri boiler. S plan set up and followed the wiring diagram to the letter but I’m getting hot radiators when the hot water is switched on. Triple checked all my wiring and can’t see what’s wrong. Even replaced the Honeywell valve to be in the safe side. Any advice would be appreciated
Brilliant,just the info I needed.
Hi John ,I have an old V4073A valve it has a relay plugged in on the side one of the pins has snapped so was wandering if you know where I can get hold of one of these. Thanks
Hi John. We recently had a new boiler fitted on our old y plan system that only has the option for water only or combined water and heating. Will this affect how the new 3 port valves with the built in switches work? Cheers.
Excellent video Thank you
Hi John, wonder if you can assist me. I'm wiring a Y plan via a smart wiring centre, but in the wiring centre I've only got 2 terminals for the CYL stat. The CYL stat itself has obviously got 3 wires (C, 1 and 2). Just wondering if you knew which 2 wires should be used?
Excellent explanation yet again 👏👏👏
Great video, well done.
Excellent explanation, I am using the S plan system on my new Grant external blue flame condensing boiler because I didn't understand the Y plan System which according to Grant requires a RB1 relay which I didn't understand,
Excellent video
JW is a Don. Great stuff sir
Great videos, thank you
Thanks for excellent series of videos re central heating.
I'd like to pick your brains if possible about a possible change to my Y Plan wiring. I'm having a new boiler installed next week, and unlike my old one it it should have a overrun wiring connection between the boiler & the pump. Unfortunately, the boiler and pump/wiring centre are a long way apart which means that running a new cable would be difficult/disruptive. I've come up with a 'cunning plan', but would welcome some advice re its compliance with wiring regs. etc. Presumably this is a frequent problem when old boilers are swapped out.
At the moment my system runs a neutral feed (black core from a TC+E cable) all the way from the switch-fuse unit in the kitchen to the wiring centre in the airing cupboard, and then returns a neutral feed back to the kitchen using a different core (blue core from a pair of 3C+E cables) to the programmer (which is inches away from that switch fuse unit). Running a direct neutral from the switch-fuse unit to the programmer would release that blue core and allow it to be repurposed for the pump.
NB - The other blue core in that pair of 3C+E cables is already used for a switched live (turns on boiler) so I assume that practice is OK (was installed approx. 30 years ago). Not so sure about the direct connection between the switch and the programmer though.
Many thanks in advance.
Hi John, my house has an open fire with a back boiler still in use, I'm wanting to install a pipe stat which will send power to the pump when the temp is up, I'm having difficulty understanding what way to wire the statz would you have any knowledge on this?
Thanks
very informative video im watching it over and over to get it through my thick head
JW. Thank you thank you thank you!!!
Hi John, As ever great detail and explanation. Would you be interested in making a video on how to install a Nest Heat Link control with a Y plan system. All other information i have viewed does not go into the level of detail that you do.
Sounds like you don’t have a HW off connection.
Thanks John.
I'm trying to use a 5 wire motorized head to replace a 3 wire installation. Can this be done and if so what do i do with the extra 2 wires? Any advise greatly appreciated.
Hi JW, great video, thank you. If I want to remove the room thermostat and add a wireless thermostat such as a Hive system, I would replace the programmer with the hive receiver unit but then I am correct in thinking I would need to connect 4 and 5 in the wiring centre after disconnecting the thermostat?
Yes - see this video: ruclips.net/video/tFT1AJsbMfo/видео.html
John Ward superb just the video I’ve been looking for, thank you
What do you do if the boiler is an old back boiler that does not have a switch live, only a permanent live ?
Hello JW. Absolutely fantastic array of videos on your channel. I have learned so much over the last few months.
I have a question related to this video. I have a Detach Pro valve that has an additional brown wire. Where should that be connected.
The list of wiring colours are
Brown 230v live (connected by room or cyl stat)
Blue neutral
White aux switch N/C
Grey aux switch (connected to boiler and pump
Orange aux switch (connected to 230v)
Yellow/green earth
Many thanks Brendan
Hi JW. You certainly know your stuff and expertly delivered. I have accidentally pulled out some of the wiring in the strip terminal that connects the 3 port valve, pump, controller, boiler & `stat. (a shelf collapsed pulling wiring out....eeek)
The Honeywell 3 port valve (40003916-001) has 6 wires attached, all info online I can find have 5 wires. I have identified and can connect the wiring for each other component, but my system does not have a room thermostat.
My problem is....How to wire the 6 tails from the 3 port valve. One colour I cant identify, `cos i`m colourblind and where to connect the white wire that would normally connect to the room `stat.
I hope this is clear and many thanks in advance if you could assist
Hi John, have you any idea why the pump on this system would suddenly decide to keep running even when the thermostats are satisfied and the boiler shuts down. It has only just started doing this and turning down the room or boiler stats has no effect neither does turning the controller off (not isolating it). Valve was changed for a new one 8 months ago.
Most boilers have an overrun function which keeps the pump running for a while to remove any excess heat from the boiler, and the pump is controlled via the boiler. If it runs all the time even when the boiler does not, then the fault is in the boiler.
If both the boiler and pump operate when the thermostats/programmer are set to off, then the fault is probably with the zone valve sticking open .
Hi John
Thanks for the videos they are very helpful.
Communual heating flow and return pipes feeding the radiators and cylinder in the flat there is mid position or 3 port valve,cylinder stat,wiring centre,programmer and room thermostat we set the cylinder stat 65 degrees but at the kitchen hot tap is more than 65. What would be the cause and how can we avoid hot water getting too hot?
Y plan can't be used with communal heating systems - the valve default position is open to hot water, and in a normal system the boiler is switched off when hot water isn't required.
On a communal system the supply pipes will always be hot, and the as the valve is open, the cylinder will be heated 24/7 regardless of any thermostat.
Thank you john
Looking at the diagram I don't understand the need to send the power back down to the timer when the dhw had been satisfied. It just needs to switch across to the white wire.
Hello. Can you help me figure out how the Hive Controller would fit into this to replace the programmer. Also does the power supply have to feed thru the controller
Outstanding! Do you also do a similar vidoe for multi-zone UFH by chance?
please can you do a full setup tour?? i would be very interested
Thank you for presenting these informational videos John, you have helped me have a much better understanding of such systems
i have a problem with a y-plan system in my new house, i think that it may be related to the grey wire being live even when the programmer both HW and CH are both switched off, which if i understand correctly in turn raise the orange wire to approx 100v potential.
The boiler will not switch off unless the the switch wire is physically disconnected , and then it stays off when the switched wire is reconnected.
however the problem reoccurs when hw and ch are switched on then off
could you give me some guidance
thanks JTK
Some modern boilers do have the problem that 100V is enough to activate the boiler, and hence the system stays on when not required. This can be fixed by adding a device such as this Worcester one: www.dhsspares.co.uk/product/worcester-87161092750-rc-device-1015509 between the orange wire and neutral. The item is just a capacitor and resistor usually sold as a contact suppressor, so this: cpc.farnell.com/ampohm-wound-products/fe-sp-hdr23-100-100/contact-suppressor-0-1uf-100r/dp/FT00715 type of thing should fix the problem for a lot less.
HI John, quick question, If wiring a s plan but instead of a separated programmer and room stat, you had a programmable room stat, would it wire up in the same way but the wires going to the separate programer and room stat, they would go to the one place at the programmable room stat? hope you can help
Yes, all you need is the thermostat contacts between L and the heating valve brown wire (terminal 5 in the video).
If it's an existing system, the existing thermostat wiring can be used, but either set the existing programmer to On permanently, or put a wire link in place instead of the programmer. You will still need the other channel of the programmer for hot water.
For Hive / Nest / Tado type systems, the receiver unit replaces the programmer, the old thermostat is disconnected and a link installed instead (between 4 and 5 in the video). The receiver unit controls both hot water and heating, with the new wall thermostat , phone or tablet connected by wifi / radio signals.
Hi John, I have a quick question if I may, I have a issue (I've recently moved house), where I have a 3 port valve as per the video. I have a issue where if the heating and water are on together, that after a short time although both the heating and water is on (the boiler stops). If then I switch the water off, the heating immediately kicks back in. Watching the video would this be likely to be a issue with the terminal 8 which goes back to the boiler? Independently both work fine, its only when both are on together, and I'm more and more convinced once the water has reached temp it stops both. (And the heating never kicks back in automatically) Many thanks for any advice in advance.
Perfect. Thanks !!
Excellent
Many thanks, great video,and very well explained, can I just ask if your not replacing one item say a motorized valve, and you have not got a Honeywell, is it generally accepted among manufacturers that the same colored wiring is standard so you cannot mix up the connections when following this diagram.
Yes, most manufacturers used the same colours.