Swedes want to know: take 2: Ivar Arpi interviews me again
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- Опубликовано: 8 мар 2018
- Journalist Ivar Arpi of the Swedish daily newspaper Svenska Dagbladet interviewed me in December of 2017 ( • Swedes want to know.... ). We delve much deeper this time, in an interview recorded last week (first week of March 2018) talking, among other things, about my new book.
His piece derived from this interview can be accessed here: www.svd.se/helvetet-ar-defini...
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I am a 50yo lesbian so I may be off here but I am also a forensic psych. I started looking deep into what's going on with the younger generation because I was seeing more & more frustrated young men that didn't know how to be young men.
This is a very complex issue but I think somewhere along the line the radical feminists decided being a man is bad & now normal male behavior is viewed as a pathology. They aren't allowing young boys to be young boys. They want to raise boys like girls & we are different.
You get a group of boys together & if there is a pile of blocks, they see who can built the tallest tower. You give them anything with wheels & they see who is fastest, who can jump the best. Sit them down next to a creek & they see who can jump over it. Then they go to a wider area until someone ends up wet & muddy.
Young boys want to be rowdy & they compete at virtually everything. The one that ended up wet at the creek saves face when he can drink his orange juice faster than every one else.
Girls don't play like that but boys need that. They are learning their role in the world. They are learning they may not be good at one thing but they are good at other things. This gives them direction & confidence.
We have more & more young boys growing up without a father. Combine that with going to school & being told your behavior is bad, the games you want to play are bad, your very nature is wrong & these young boys grow up & they are lost. Some know how to be men but they are shamed & told they are wrong if they act like men. Some are truly lost. They don't know how to be a man & if they try they get demonized.
We can't keep doing this.
The people that want equal outcomes in life need to realize that people aren't all the same. Men & women are different & it doesn't help women to hurt men. That's the exact same mentality of let's handicap this person because they are better at doing something. That results in society making the lowest common denominator the norm.
We are different. I don't get the desire to jump over the creek. I don't get the desire to see who can ride the bike the fastest but, when those kids grow up, it's that same energy that results in who can build the best car, the safest car. Who can design the most efficient farm etc. These things are a huge benefit to society overall. We need to celebrate those differences.
We need to give every individual equal opportunity to pursue the life they want & when more men go into engineering or computers & more women go into nursing we must realize that isn't due to one group being held down, it's due to a bunch of individuals sorting themselves out into things they are good at & things they want to do. That's a good thing. Men & women, on average, are different & we compliment each other. We can't stomp that out, we need to celebrate that.
Anyways, I realize this is drastically simplified but I think that's a serious issue facing us right now.
Well said
Firstly, thank you for your comment.
Secondly, it is worth following through on your train of thought. What do you think is the mostly likely outcome of telling a whole generation of young men that everything they are is essentially wrong, right down to their core? Do you think that they will knuckle under or is it far more likely that those competative and combative attributes will undergo an explosive release becuase it is inherent within them. I think those pushing their ideology should be VERY afraid.
shananagans5 Beautiful comment. Couldn't agree more and I think, especially when it comes to this topic, everybody is included, so the only part I disagree is that you consider yourself off because of your sex and/or sexuality. Beside of male role models it's women like you young men need, because of your point of view. It's irrelevant in which group identity politics might put you. Thumbs up!
ifonlyicouldstop: That's a very complex question with a few things at play. Twin studies are showing that as people get older, genetic predispositions tend to come out more. Twins raised apart will be far more similar when they are 50 than when they are 20. That could be simply because at 50 they have more control over their lives, more $ & more ability to do what they want.
Exactly why this happens isn't important, what is important is as these guys get older, these male feminists aren't going to be happy being the submissive betas they are now. More natural male behavior is going to want to come out.
If we can stop this feminist/leftest nonsense soon, I think these guys, most of them anyways, will eventually find their feet & be okay.
If we continue this craziness, I do fear it will eventually come to a head & that will be ugly.
I haven't seen a great deal of Dr. Peterson's stuff but I did see him talking about WWII & how these ideologies created so much havoc in the world & I have to agree with him on that. My generation has had it pretty easy. We did worry about the cold war but day to day life was easy. We did have the advantage of teachers that were WWII vets, grandparents that stored food & told us the horrors of WWII. We didn't live it but we knew the world could come apart.
Now, some bright young people that learn history & take those lessons to heart realize how lucky we are right now, even with the life struggles everyone has to overcome.
These young activists don't have a clue what they are asking for. They can't even conceive of a world where Starbuck's isn't open & ready to serve them their morning cream whatever mix. I am a Diet Coke girl myself. They can't conceive of the grocery store not being there. They want to tear down the society that has given us the best lives of any humans so far in history & that really scares me.
They are walking around thinking they have nothing to lose. When a real war breaks out & their coffee is gone, along with their appt, car, a regular food supply, clean water & maybe even their lives, they will realize they indeed did have something to lose. Problem is, at that point, they have drug everyone into hell with them.
I think we are already seeing some individuals popping off. Young guys raised with a helicopter parent, they get to school & much of what they want to do is labeled as bad. They didn't really learn how to solve problems, on one hand they are being told everything they want to do is bad, on the other hand, students are saying everyone should be happy & comfortable at all times. I think, in some extreme cases, this starts the snowball of frustration, depression & eventually that turns to hating the world.
We need to be honest about human nature, we need to work within the parameters of that human nature to tame it, turn those energies into something productive. If we deny that human nature, try to suppress it or force it to change, that will eventually blow up in our faces if we push it to far.
I see ways to avoid that explosive release & I really hope it can be avoided but yes, I do fear that is a real possibility.
ifonlyicouldstop I think the popularity explosion for Jordan Peterson tells you exactly what will happen. There has been a simmering dissent (mostly online) from the mainstream narrative opinion that was first discouraged and shamed but is now shifting into being actively repressed. People know the narrative that men (white men in particular) are evil is wrong even if they can't explain why it's wrong.
In the end it will be just like any other denial of reality; doomed to failure from the start. You can try to fight reality, you can build walls and barriers to keep it out but reality has infinite mass that will never stop piling up. Should you ever tire of building new barriers to keep reality out, reality will instantly break through and you may find your entire life wasted in the pursuit of changing the nature of the world. The weight of dissent against this narrative is growing steadily, the barriers are leaking and they can not hold out forever. The Cathy Newman interview with Dr. Peterson was only a catalyst in all of this as it equipped a lot more people to be able to properly articulate their objections. There is an election in my province coming this summer and currently the party pushing this agenda is polling at under 20% support. Maybe saying the barriers were leaking in that metaphor was being generous.
Prof Peterson, despite my being old enough to be your father, I could most certainly put up with your being mine. God bless you mate (From London, England). PS: Thank you Swede for putting this out. Hey hey.
> "Johnny 666"
> "God Bless you"
Pick one.
@ Arcane Dreamer : Not necessarily - Demian / Hermann Hesse. ;)
Robinexs Hesse! Ha ha! Christ! I’ve just had an acid flashback to my hippie/happy days/daze :1966!)
Johnny 666 Beautiful comment and then Hesse is mentioned, jackpot! Greetings from Germany
Sopho Nax Gern geschehen! Und ist es nicht großartig, wie Peterson uns zusammenbringt? (Please excuse my German 🤪)
Kul att det finns ett intresse av Jordan i Sverige.
Och att kunna känna en fristad i diskussionen utan att bli stämplad som man tyvärr blir i Sverige ganska lätt
My dad and I got to listen to the first 8 hours of 12 rules on a road trip to pick up his new truck from Montana to Idaho and back. I got the kindle and audio for a good price. I bring you up all the time and now he knows what I was talking about. My mom and sister are next. +1 fan
01:19:30 Jordan Peterson is coming to Sweden?!? I have to be there. I live in Norway, so it is practically in my neighbourhood. Can't miss such a chance.
Yeah, I am waiting for him too! It is in the autumn but let me know if you find out the extact date.
Jordans intro looking like a marvel movie. Props to the person who created it.
He actually created it himself dude, it's a 2D representation of a 3D representation of sound, or something like that
Ben DuGray that's crazy
Usually when a writer or other public figure holds my interest and I begin watching their interviews, it doesn't take long for repetition to set in. I must have watched or listened to a total of at least 30 hours of interviews with Jordan Peterson over the past few months, and each one continues to be just as fascinating as the last.
"Be not afriad of greatness.
Some are born great.
Some achieve greatness.
And others have greatness thrust upon them."
Listen to the audio version of the Bible. Highly recommended. I'm a long haul truck driver and have done this. It's quite a trip to listen cover to cover. I achieved a greater sense of who God is and how He works in our lives. It literally blew my mind. Amazing.
Lon Spector that’s the tongue...
Two of my favorite people of the past year meeting up for a second time. Thank you for doing this!
nice avatar arvid!
downeybill thanks dude, you should have one too
Thank you both, something even more 'awesomer' about this conversation. Love from the UK.
You guys are my biggest heroes of 2018, Ivar and Jordan!
Dear J.Peterson
Will you have an event in Sweden? As a young deeply frustrated Swede, my only way of liberating myself from this political tyranny has been to search myself out and listen to educated people outside of this country. I've adapted many of your rules of life as a pure defense mechanism towards the oppressing ideology that keeps swedes in line. If anything the media needs to be challenged by people that speak the truth. Recently the politicians decided to put restrictions on our constitution of free speech and availability of governments documents. Rulings of courts, documents and data regarding statistics will be censored and only available to journalists that the government "qualify as serious". It is a very deeply disturbing development and very little has been spoken about it.
Sweden needs strong, rational and sincere people at this period of time more than ever. Please announce if you're arranging an event of any sort. I personally know freestanding organisations that would be honored to receive you, arrange with administrations for a speakers event or alike.
I have been waiting for this, thanks so much!!
One of the many great things about reading, listening, and watching JP is you stumble across so many great contemporaries like Ivar. Thanx for posting
Audio book version of Maps of Meaning? That's what I call an early Christmas! Thank you so much, Dr. Peterson, and best wishes from Germany
You are about to reach 1 million subscribers. Congratulations.
Love you Jordan!
Saturday morning at home on a drab cool day.... ear phones in and listening to an intelligent conversation. Life's pretty good. Thanks to the both of you.
How lovely a thing to watch on RUclips. Thank you.
Thank you for the intellectually honest work you do. I may not agree with all of your ideas and theories, but I sure love to hear them.
thank you I enjoyed this discussion very much...
I'm excited you hear the audiobook!
It's inconceivable to me that anyone can listen to Dr. Peterson and take umbrage at what he says to the point they start acting like 3 year olds. I believe the haters hate him because they don't possess the intellectual capacity to comprehend what he's talking about, so they want to shut him up because he makes them feel stupid, which of course they are.
I never tire of watching/listening to a Jordan Peterson interview!
Thank you for this, greetings from Sweden.
Solid talk, appreciated the questions Ivar asked; serious topics but inspiring thoughts
Thank you very much for this interview.
Bravo Ivar, such a beautiful and generous observation on the enobling and dignifying effect of Dr. Peterson's good work.
Damn, Professor P! I've watched some old clips of you and your physical transformation over time is really inspiring. looking really sharp these days. keep going!
JP is so amazinig because he has the intelligence of a theoretical physicist and the wisdom and moral understanding of a saint. It's truly amazing to watch.
Really enjoyed this interview, thanks.
I think the audio books do so well because it's so much easier to understand such complex material when you have Professor Peterson providing all of the emphasis and verbal cues. When I listen to him speak, I always feel he's delivering challenging material at just the right speed. I'm sure that can't be as true for everyone, but it's been my experience.
I'm often amazed that I can grasp what he's saying. But that's probably because he's articulating many things that so many have felt for so long about so much.
This was incredible. Thanks professor.
So happy to hear JP's gonna do an audiobook for Maps of Meaning. Can't wait!
Jordan Peterson is my spirit animal
joe k My spirit animal is the dragon of chaos.
I thought he's your magic dad.
Prove it
So what you're saying is your spirit animal is a lobster.
So what you're saying is... ehehe lol ;)~
"When I did these biblical lectures last year - which I'm going to continue by the way, as soon as I can possibly manage it"
YES
one hour and twenty minutes of gold. Thank you
It's just ridiculous how nice it can be to listen to a normal, civilized discussion between two people.
Super interesting interview! That Ivar Arpi is such an wonderful guy.
YES! An audio book of Maps of Meaning would make me so stoked. I drive a lot.
Don't know how Sweden ended up in my RUclips recommendations, but I ended up being really impressed with this interviewer, Ivar Arpi, for hosting a real conversation. He seems to both be a good listener and keep up/keep ideas going. The best journalist I've seen in a long time.
After watching your interview with Russell Brand, I am eager to watch this one. Thank you for doing interviews
Great interview, and nice whisky in the background! I can see Cragganmore, Ardbeg and Lagavulin.
Love the new intro... classical music is the best!
Very well read audio book. I will definitely buy the maps of meaning audio book.
Thanks Jordan!
Love from Sweden!
definitely waiting for the audible version of maps of meaning!
I love the liquor cabinet, great selection!
Yes! Maps of meaning audio book!!!!
Ivar seem to be very well read and thoughtful. Great interview.
Right on. Love you Jordan Peterson!
If all you do is help to bring a sense of dignity to Sweden, your work will have been well worth it, Dr. Peterson.
Thank you very kindly from a man you've encouraged just by hoisting your own burden.
Yes!!!! Audiobook of Maps of Meaning!!!!
Maps of Meaning! AudioBook! Yes please Mr Peterson.
11:00 It's not that surprising, Dr. Peterson. You are an incredibly powerful speaker. Delivery is very important in this kind of thing.
I just read his article thinking if I ever got to see this on RUclips.
I find this so interesting : if you know malevolence, you can then choose to be good; know the power of the sword and not use it, that is deep. Good interview.
An amazingly intellectual and HONEST man.
Since as long as I can remember my father told me:
"Son, the only things you'll ever really have is your name, your word and your honour, these no one can take from you, only you can give them up. Do not waste them."
Somewhat paraphrased as he said it in Swedish but its as close to a literall translation youd come.
I've always believed in this, my father was very rarely wrong about anything cuz he rarely spoke about anything unless he was 100% sure he was correct, but it took me well into my 20s before I understood it and came to see the true value in it.
Nice Jordan, come to Sweden! I'll be at your talk for sure!
Omg this is my new favorite peterson talk. The story of his son getting mugged was incredibly influential on me.
Hello Peterson, I would like to thank you very much, I am in a bad moment and I have seen a motivational video made by you, I was really moved, I will try to apply the changes suggested by you, the studies are making me very stressed and I end up discounting it in myself and my family, I realized that, as you said, I was enslaving myself and not wanting my own good, you made me wake up about it, so I would like to thank you, keep up the good work!
A Brazilian who likes your work
Thanks so much 4 sharing that.
~♥~
Great to hear that you'll come to Sweden in the fall, would be good if it's before the election 9th of september. Keep up the good work!
Love the new intro. The people who made the world what it is today...
some absolute gems in this
Mr. Peterson, the interaction with Cathy Newman was the tipping point. You took on the behemot which butcher the Manhood and in fact all classical values. And yaou stod up to the behemot and defeated it.
And for this many see you as leading thinker.
You do great work and I wish that I got in contact with your work sooner!!!
All struggles have one purpose and all governing dynamics are designed around it. The perpetual persistence of higher learning. And one of the key needed is patience, the ultimate self control and no simulation can ever replicate its process. And no free ride can ever take you there either.
One of the best interviews of JBP
Good discussion. I think you are both on a right track. I am Christian now for 19 years and that is my experience. As I face the darkness within me and in the world on daily basis, and take responsibility for that I move towards the light, and I overcome this darkness. it is up to me to be willing to face it, and to see and it is the Grace of God that steps in and gives me power to overcome, to move upwards. That is what Christianity is. You accept what Christ had done for you, then you take up your cross (responsibility for your failings) and you follow Him by moving towards heaven, by choosing truth instead of deceit, by choosing forgiveness instead of revenge...this is what it means to turn the other cheek. It does not mean that you allow evil people to walk over you, but it means that while you stand up to it, you don't become evil yourself, you don't respond in kind, you take a higher road and you win by overcoming evil with good. I will give you a practical example of that. My husband and I live in a rough neighbourhood. A few years ago I was harassed by this tall Yugoslavian guy because I knew he wasn't a resident of our building and I refused to let him inside. Someone else let him in, but he began to taunt me, to question me where I lived. I refused to answer, but I told my husband about that. he said, well show me the guy when we walk together. One day we did walk together in front of our apartment building and we saw the guy. I told my husband "this is the guy." My husband walked up to him and asked, " Well, sir I heard you are bothering my wife. What is your problem?" The other guy got physically ready for a fight, clenched his jaws and fists ( and he was a head taller than my husband), but my husband looked him straight in the eye and suddenly said : "Jesus loves you." The other guy's jaw just dropped. He looked bewildered from me, then to my husband. He noticed that we were not angry with him, and he just could not take it. He threw up hands in the air and shouted "You are crazy!!! You two are just crazy!!!" then he literally ran away still shouting on the other side of the street that we were crazy. We never saw the guy again. The guy probably had evil intentions and the fact that we tried to reach out to him with the love of God instead of with anger and violence had totally done him in. We took the higher road, we turned the other cheek. It works. the very name of Jesus spoken in Love is powerful. I have experienced a great deal of evil and suffering before I became a Christian, before I began walking with God. He helped me to set my house in order and the result is that for the past 19 years I have hardly been experiencing any suffering. It is a foretaste of heaven. I walk in peace regardless of my circumstances. Most of the suffering I do experience is over the suffering of others around me. Sadly enough, many of them look at my life that is in order, see me walking in peace, and they envy that, but are not willing to do what it takes to get that. They are not willing to face their darkness, to take responsibility for what they can control in life and walk with God, but those who do reap the same benefits. It works.
I enjoyed the topic of good and capacity for evil being combined into one person. This supports a central doctrine taught in my church (Latter Day Saints), that there must be opposition in all things.
Just by JP Speaking publicly, has defended and riotously helped the good fight for Lots of people and groups here on the net. Thanks JP
Aw damn...
I'm going in fellas...
This here room is getting straightened out, roughly speaking.
I'll check back in to let you know if I get back from the underworld Buckos.
Dr. Peterson shows once again great insight. What he talks about in the beginning is a prime example of disruptive innovation theory. Anyone who's interested in the phenomenon should read Clayton Christensen's 1997 book The Innovator's Dilemma.
Canada should consider JBP as national treasure!
I honestly can't get enough of JPB wisdom
Contact Aron Flam in sweden maybe trough dave rubin( arom flam was on the rubin report)
Very interesting 👍🏻
Fascinating
11:34 Audiobook version of maps of meaning ?
Awesome !
Cant wait for audio version of maps of meaning. Haven't read it because i don't have time.
"to take the full tragedy of being full-frontal ...to open yourself up to the catastrophe of existence and to move
forward with courage and with nobility and with truth on your tongue" at about 16:05 Peterson says something close to this and I think it's a pretty nice snapshot of his philosophy
JP alludes a lot to Brave New World in the way he talks, I agree we are slowly moving toward that kind of hedonistic reality, and we want someone (the state) to take care of us, we just want our quick fix happiness and not be in trouble.
Fantastic
1:09:21 seconds: I saw that #2 Angel years ago. My father had told me about it, he liken it to a scratch on the coffee table in our living room back in the 1950's. I'm surprised Mr. Peterson said it was hard to understand. My Dad had a 4th grade education, he didn't reveal to me the flaming sword back then, I think because I was so young. I've enjoyed reading the 12 Rules, I'm re-reading again. I 'm enjoying JP's RUclips video's and telling others. Great insights.
The "moment" comes at min. 59:00, love this guy. "pick up your cross and walk up the godamn hill"
Glad to see Ivar Arpi´s spirits bottles are full. That'll help his spirit have a clean, full, live physical base to work from. And God knows we need all our power potential to deal with the world today ,and manage ourselves, being creative. Being full of love, meaningful work, endeavours and life spirit renders spirits unnecessary and uninteresting. It is only a treacherous short-cut to a surrogate fake bliss.
1:09:00 Oh God..... and the ending was climactic.
I heard it said that the Right Man will come the Right Time. I think Dr. Peterson is that Man Now. Thank you for posting this dialogue.
listen bucko ive got a hypothesis to run by you... love it!
Diggin' the beard Dr. Peterson!
So you're saying we're all lobsters.
JBP
I'm saying that I have high dopamine, and carry my claws high when I walk on the sea floor.
Unfortunately not all of us.
That's one way of looking at it. Roughly speaking.
Sort yourself out, Bucko, and that's that.
Imagine Peterson reading Gulag Archipelago!! I'd buy it in a heartbeat! (Although, I own a book copy!)
Raja Brahmakshatriya If you like such horror histories find Pilecki's report about Auschwitz. Shorter, same frightening what human beeing is able to do to other human beeing.
I second this
Omg! Vigilante JBP (mugging story about half way in) love it! He just became EVEN MORE relatable! Didn’t think it was possible 😂
I'd like to run a hypothesis by you guys too, for those who know what ''the wave' is all about:
i believe that in a more subtle way, the wave is happening in our centers of education.
That is a very nice whisky cabinet in the background; can't go wrong with Ardbeg.
Woo-hoo, Maps of Meaning audiobook! I appreciate that as a parent that no longer has ownership of my hands or eyes.
Interesting conversation! Thank you for taking the time and efforts needed to produce truly thought provoking content! All that aside I in listening to this post, found that it sent me back to the Interview! In that I noted that Dr Peterson is very correct in that the interviewer desired to dominate the interview in more than one way! She also used word play! She would outright use a form called accusatory form! " You believe" You think" "You say" muddying up the well so to say! This is for the weak of mind to not follow the truth of Dr Petersons stanch on anything, it is devised to discredit at best and to insight at worst! I still found him to be better and stronger than ever in his choice of how to deal with the entire interview!
Wow! Jordan Peterson coming to Sweden. Great!
Fellow swede here Love Ivar Arpi and JBP
I'm liking this 'Shadow-Integrated Peterson' -look with the rough beard