Richard Haier: IQ Tests, Human Intelligence, and Group Differences | Lex Fridman Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Richard Haier is a psychologist specializing in the science of human intelligence. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Richard's Twitter: / rjhaier
Richard's Website: richardhaier.com/
Documents & Articles:
1. Child IQ and survival to 79: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...
2. Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth: my.vanderbilt.edu/smpy/files/...
Books:
1. The Neuroscience of Intelligence: amzn.to/3n50DcC
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3. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: amzn.to/3zPAW7q
4. Flowers for Algernon: amzn.to/3OfRKZS
5. The Bell Curve: amzn.to/3Ng4RJe
6. The Mismeasure of Man: amzn.to/3N9IkxB
7. Human Diversity: amzn.to/3O7Trsc
8. Facing Reality: amzn.to/3bfzqkX
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
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RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
0:43 - Measuring human intelligence
15:11 - IQ tests
37:59 - College entrance exams
46:36 - Genetics
52:35 - Enhancing intelligence
1:00:04 - The Bell Curve
1:12:35 - Race differences
1:31:48 - Bell curve criticisms
1:40:57 - Intelligence and life success
1:50:34 - Flynn effect
1:55:26 - Nature vs nuture
2:22:19 - Testing artificial intelligence
2:34:23 - Advice
2:38:30 - Mortality
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Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions:
- Calm: calm.com/lex to get 40% off
- Linode: linode.com/lex to get $100 free credit
- BiOptimizers: www.magbreakthrough.com/lex to get 10% off
- SimpliSafe: simplisafe.com/lex and use code LEX
- MasterClass: masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off
0:43 - Measuring human intelligence
15:11 - IQ tests
37:59 - College entrance exams
46:36 - Genetics
52:35 - Enhancing intelligence
1:00:04 - The Bell Curve
1:12:35 - Race differences
1:31:48 - Bell curve criticisms
1:40:57 - Intelligence and life success
1:50:34 - Flynn effect
1:55:26 - Nature vs nuture
2:22:19 - Testing artificial intelligence
2:34:23 - Advice
2:38:30 - Mortality
Stay safe Lex hopefully you're on the way to get a little insight into what mr. Putin is thinking. a dead media around your enemy is scary, if im making since. Love always, travel well friend
Can you invite feild medalist..?
It will be very helpful to understand their ways of thinking.
Great interview, glad you're back mate
Моя любов intelligence 😘🐕💨😇🍀🤣😘
Thanks for posting! Just want to make clear that the content of the Bell Curve should not be controversial and should not be represented as a "two-sided" debate - it is positively a rehashing of 19th century race science to support a reactionary political agenda. The video essay linked below rigorously dismantles The Bell Curve in its entirety, and discredits Murray and much of his source base (as more than simply a "bad scientist"). There are tons of references there.
ruclips.net/video/UBc7qBS1Ujo/видео.html&ab_channel=Shaun
Just googled IQ test and spend 30 minutes doing the test. Before getting the results, it asked for money. I guess the result was that I am stupid :D
👁👄👁
HAHAHAHAHAHA
The joke showed signs of intelligence lol
@@jaydejones6730 It wasnt a joke, true story. I did not pay.
@@michipichu I checked the IQ test process done by psychologists, it measures so much more things than just IQ, therefore it aint even IQ test.
I had an IQ of 126 as measured when I was 13 years old with particularly high verbal ability and particularly low spatial ability (I don't remember the specific terms for the test components so these may be wrong). I graduated college at 18 years old with a 3.933 GPA from a flagship state school in a STEM major, and am now 21 and getting my PhD in a neuroscience subfield. However, I have always noticed around me a significant difference in the abilities of students to solve certain problems and to make connections to "get to the next step" in understanding. I have tried to help certain students understand problems that I myself easily understood and they were incapable despite seemingly hours of focused and determined effort. Yet still, I found problems that I myself couldn't comprehend (especially in the exercise sections of math textbooks) where I learned the prerequisite material but couldn't find a solution, but there were certainly others that could. A striking example of this was in an upper level undergraduate neuroscience class where we had to take weekly quizzes which were a sizeable portion of our grade. They were often so convoluted and difficult that people took them together to guarantee a high score. But one week, everyone got together in a study room and we still managed to get one wrong. But when I talked about it with this one girl (who was always getting the quizzes 100%, by herself) she explained why the answers were the way they were and I realized that I never would have been able to make that connection, but she did with the same amount of exposure to the material (and trust me, I studied very, very hard but so did she).
I think there is some major limiting factor in people's ability to make associations between informational components of the problems they are interfacing with, and this is mainly a function of something like intelligence. You know it when you are facing a tough problem and it requires a creative, novel solution. Some people just see deeper relationships that allow them to solve those problems and others don't see those relationships. And it's not for lack of effort.
You may not notice unless you had ADHD for example and a high iq, these deeper connections are essentially a greater capacity to store not only more information in the short term memory, highly gifted people can store multi-dimensional pieces of information and relate that to concepts stored in their long term memory with ease others simply can't. This ability is severly limited for most people cos humans simply DONT NEED IT to survive.
Can I ask your race?
@@JesusChristReturn Are you saying that "noticing" the connections between things (an intermediate step in problem solving) is potentially a result of some kind of distraction (hence, ADHD) or wider attentional scope? What I believe - which I think is different from what you're saying - is that "noticing" is not the right term, but rather, that the bridge was already built, or only a few bricks away from being built, so to speak. And furthermore, I think that this is a result of universally wider association between things.
To answer your second reply, I am part Irish, Italian, and a mix of a few other white European places. Bonus: my father is very intelligent but my mom is average or less.
@@user-ol5bj4dm2v From a systems point of view, think about the inputs, process, then output.
Function Reproduction(fatherGenes,motherGenes,environment,nutrition,education,experiences,options)❴ return human*(allOfTheAbove^2)❵
This is most certainly wrong, but what other parameters are missing? How can we be certain of the exact weightings of all the parameters.
In terms of studying your degree, you are probably approaching your study with the wrong logical pathway.
Perhaps try to break down each component into mathematical systems, and determine correlative impact effects based on the studies you can find that are available. Just a thought. Could be the complete wrong approach with biological systems.
May I ask what the question was and also the answer?
Kudos to this man for having the courage to speak honestly without fear. Kudos to Lex as well for having him on.
That frankly should be the absolute unquestionable standard. I’m confused this discussion is held.
@@cataclysmicproductions Academia sells a product. A life will measure your "g-factor". Sincere curiosity does not require credentials.
I have two brothers. All three of us have potential based on genealogical reports I found via presidential candidates and their implications.
My work reveals aspects to my human potential that just could not be measured by an IQ test.
Examining my entire life revealed to me only aspects that I can recognize. I have posted empirical evidence for 7 years in comment sections. LEX, nor any other podcaster has responded. Good to know that writing a book would be foolish.
As a teacher, I find it fascinating to hear conversations like this. It is devastating to work with students who either cannot see their lack of ability, or worse, those who can see it and know they can't compete.
You shouldn’t be a teacher.
Are you aware of your own inability to uplift these students and give them the tools to succeed? If you aren't, and based off your comment you are indeed not, then that is even more devastating. Foolish and apathetic educators only help to perpetuate this cursed educational system.
The slippery slope in your profession is to place (expectation) labels on top of students, labels that will change your behavior towards them (for and against them). Staying neutral is a very difficult but necessary task as an educator.
Should selected better parents, I'd suggest.
Just remember that you wrote that under what appears to be your real name. They will dig out your comment in the future and fire you. So, maybe consider deleting it.
I worked in a group home for mentally disabled adults, from 1998 to 2004. The men that I took care of were full grown adults ranging from 25 to 60 in age, but their emotional and mental development was that of a toddler to preteen. The bureaucracy that ran our state funded agency was very keen on terms like diversity and inclusion even back then. The reality is that the people I took care of were only capable of so much, and normal opportunities did not apply. These people were never going to grow up and become adults that could take care of themselves. Some of the people that manage the homes we’re really concerned that we make it look like these people had opportunities like the rest of us, even though persuing those opportunities caused a lot of trouble, pain and confusion. Being retarded is hard enough without people placing false expectations on your potential to participate in society as “normal” people. It was all in the name of inclusion, but that was not the result at all. Policy makers need to be prepared to drop their lofty ideals when reality provides ample evidence that things aren’t going as planned.
Interesting inclusion can be abuse also.
curious perspective, thanks for sharing. would you mind giving an example of the kind of 'program' or 'activity' etc. offered to those clients that cause concern?
What an intelligent simply-stated comment. There's plenty these folks can do and bring to the world and the word 'special' should be emphasized because they can be wonderful people. I heard of a café run entirely by down syndrome folks and they share in the profit. Some very smart people helped make it happen. This is rare instead of everyday life.
You make sense. Bureaucratic political ideals are prioritized ahead of practical solutions to meet these peoples real needs and ffs help them to become functional, fulfilled contributors to their OWN 'special' society and thus functionally contribute to society at large
The overarching goal to make these mentally challenged adults be productive is a consequence of our lives being commodified by the free market The DEI bullshit isn't really woke, rather its just an avenue through which exploitative capitalism legitimizes itself.
I am an educational kinesiologist. And there's been so much progress helping lower intelligence. Like living skills. I'm not saying everyone will get a job etc. But definetly improvement. But not many group homes use them. Body movements. Thank you for your service to these people. Caring is so important Like seeing a person tying their shoes. Or writing their name. I wrote this to share the information. Certainly not to beat you up. Thanks for posting.
I remember in Grade 9, I had a friend who was just smarter than me, full stop. I'd always been a "gifted kid" and picked up concepts faster than my peers, but this girl was able to logic things out just a hair faster than me. I always thought that intelligence was just about paying attention and "using your brain", but it was the first time I viscerally felt that someone's brain was just plain better than mine, as if she was running on better software.
I don't know if IQ or grades really capture this, though. But it's very apparent if you pay attention to people when they're challenged intellectually.
Can relate. I've always been in the middling top 25% where I'm in classes w the smart kids but don't really excel. All my friends are smart. Most of us have at least one graduate degree, though specific aptitudes vary. I do have some friends who I affectionately refer to as freaks of nature, who can absorb and process information with staggering speed even when they're high, drunk or both. You know the ones. They come to class slightly hungover on an hour's sleep and get an A (or better!) on the goddamn econometrics exam. Plus they tend to be so blasé about their intelligence. How I envy them.
I wouldn’t call her brain better. Academics is one thing. Did she have bad habits, did she have common sense in every day life, was she a good or bad person, was she more artistic? I think there’s a lot more to overall smarts than only doing good in school and being able to memorize a book or solve a math problem.
I had that exact same feeling when I saw Lex talking to Joscha Bach. That dude's brain is so fantastic I feel like a paramecium look at the moon :')
She almost certainly had a higher IQ than you, that's what that looks like. Her brain computer has a faster processor and more memory, if you like.
@@satyricon451 Yeah that intelligence doesn't come free.
He/she is just hiding things from you.
You should also stop to consider that people lie, and sometimes, people may seem smart to you., but are surprisingly dumb when trying to explain themselves.
It's also possible you're undermining yourself, which makes others look smarter.
I've learned one HARD truth throughout my years:
No "one" person is worth more in his weight than others.
Basically, a single person cannot sustainably achieve more work than 2 other persons. This has been true around me for 100% of the time. We are all around the same spectrum. The "successful" just tend to be big ole' liars.
My oldest son, then about 12, made a computer game of number sequences that the player had to replicate. Turned out my youngest daughter, then about 3, was super at this. She blew the rest of us away. Yeah, now middle aged, she designs, manages huge, complicated data bases for a very large company including complex images, blue prints, etc.
Not only her, but if your son was programming well enough to make a working game at 12 he's not too unintelligent himself.
Ive actually listened to this one twice now. Pure gold
Believing biology isn’t a big part of intelligence is like saying anyone can be a pro NBA player with enough training.
🧬 🧠
,... well,... how do we go from here then ,... cancel NBA or start-up a selection method.
and blaming the height of short players on the biased thoughts of tall players
I often wonder why our education system is teaching something other than and the only true reason to deny biology is transhumanism... sounds crazy but the only conclusion that "fits"
@@jasonrichard7560 I can offer an evolutionary explanation.
When you look at this narrative and the most prominent figures who have been driving it (S.J.Gould for example) you will notice an over representation of the ruling tribe.
There is an obvious tribal interest in them convincing their biological competitors that their tribal identity doesn't exist and it is evil. If their are no biological differences then the ruled people cannot object when the rulers want of import millions of other competing tribes who just happen to also also vote with tribal loyalties of their own. But immigration is only one example of how it undermines the tribal strength of the ruled. It works at every level to weaken tribal loyalty of the ruled and makes them easier to control.
Just look up the early life of prominent academics involved in the narrative biological denialism and you will see what I mean. These people understand that it is in their tribal interests to detribalse everybody else.
One of my favorite qualities Lex brings to discussions is his calmness/patience. I feel like less things are dismissed and overlooked because he gives thoughts their time rather than slamming ideas back and forth for sport.
The combative approach to discussion that filters for the quality of thoughts produces some great results, but I imagine it also kills ideas that would have been interesting to let live a moment longer too.
again its becuase Lex has both of the best, both high IQ and very very important high EQ. That separates eg. high IQ racist to a high IQ Guy with high EQ ;) hehe
@@wallenbergphoto "wise" is more accurate
That's why the left censoring any opinion different than theirs is a danger for democracy.
What I love about Lex and his interviews is that he takes the time with each guest. In todays world we never take the time for deep conversations.
This is today's world.
There are deep conversation videos all over the internet. For some reason youtube just pushes Lex onto everybody who has auto play up with no playlist. Really annoying actually.
Lex' style is very compassionate, deep, and respectful though. It's unique
Entering the general work place shook me to my core as an American. It was my first exposure to people much older than me, trying to get ahead, but not having the mental capacity to do so. Worse than that is that they were nice people but didn't have to capability to see their limits either. It destroyed the American dream for me and made me seriously consider my own limitations. One of the handful of times in my life that I've been terrified.
many things I thought when I was younger, usually ideas that were optimistic and idealized, were swiftly disproven upon entering the workforce
How strange. Did you never observe nice people whose mental capacities were limited in school?
How does this destroy "The American Dream"? Wouldn't economic realities (such as declining productivity per capita) be more damaging?
@@goodtoGoNow1956 Absolutely cannot stand pseudo intellectuals like yourself.
@@goodtoGoNow1956
My 8 year old Nephew wanted to build a car park next to the airport, he thought it would be a great money making venture.
I didn't have the heart to tell him the reality of it all.
We all have to go through it 😢
@@Ln-cq8zu Your nephew is correct!
Above and beyond all other hosts, Lex brings us the absolute most interesting conversations. This is my tribe.
He's one of the best interviewers I've ever seen. He asks brilliant questions that lead to incredible conversations, and his guests feel so open with Lex and they are so true and raw, and I think Lex brings that out in them. Truly one of the best of the best
@@forthehomies7043 he’s not egoistic in nature, and he’s genuinely curious about the the topic, so it reflects!
Happy to find my tribe too!
No, it isn't. You are a gentile and thus to them you are not "thy fellow". You are not one of them and never will be.
It's remarkable that the key element within that atmosphere most inducive to the continuation of this "vibe" of fascinating exchange (in the face of frustration or misunderstanding) is his curiosity. It seems to compel him to patience when the weeds get thick. His self control is brilliant. I strive so ardently to replicate this for myself and it seems second nature in him.
As usual Lex, you have stimulated my G factor
Lol
@@resiliencewithin slow reader
I got 69th like on that comment heh
Giggty!
Upon reading this, the following thought emerged: are dreams and psychedelics G factor orgasms? 👀
This was mind blowing. Only Lex can have conversations with the world’s most brilliant minds in such depth and at such level of understanding, engagement and curiosity. The intellectual intimacy between the two is palpable. Charles Murray is a must to listen to, too.
I love some of the interviews where we go on tangents but I really loved how he kept saying he didn't want to get to far off base lol
Lex: I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea that general intelligence is genetically inherited.
Also Lex: My father is an award-winning plasma physicist, and I got a PhD from MIT and became a machine learning researcher.
When confronted with the truth, it's often uncomfortable.
@@msscott22 Yes, I think that's exactly why Lex is so defensive on this point. He always celebrates personal effort and drive, but he has definitely been gifted with much more raw capability than the average person.
@@andrewzadel3527 a lot of it could be the families people come from
Some of the dumbest, most dishonest SOBs I've met are college educated professionals. I'm a retired M.D., and my countries response to Covid proves my point.
This is not an example of genetic inheritance. Lex's upbringing was conditioned by his father's circumstances, and that's what made him lean toward science. Most of the world's prodigies are offsprings of academics and scientists. I would argue that they do not become that way because of some inherited intelligence, but simply because of a favorable environment.
If the group differences in intelligence are kept hidden it will continue to exacerbate the belief that the disparities in outcomes are due to racism. Teachers are condemned unfairly.
Exactly. Knowledge can only make it better for all.
This is an unsolvable problem….. trying to make unequal groups equal…… it will never happen and because it will never happen… whites will be blamed for being racist because blacks will never achieve in a equivalent manner……. Hence we have gone from equality to equity……….. Now US Medical Schools are dropping the MCAT because not enough blacks can make adequate scores for entrance…….
I started with the clip of the "Bell Curve" and felt I had to watch the complete podcast. I found the interplay between Dr. Fridman and Dr. Haier to be absolutely fascinating. Lex, I am focused mainly on Science and specifically Physics, yet I found this Podcast is one of the most interesting and in my opinion, one of your best.
I was an erratic student, at best, growing in the 1950's; irascible, impatient and outspoken. I figured out I was smarter than my fellows and the system in grade school and had little to no respect for the system, authority and people I felt were dumb. My folks didn't value education much and my grades didn't matter to them at all, so that and my home environment impacted my failure to be a star student except when I was in the mood to be. There was no incentive or money for college back then so I went to secretarial school for a couple of years before heading to the big city. Years later, circa 1970's, I was working for an educational service district and discovered information on giftedness that was a popular trend at the time. I was so excited learning about giftedness, and how much of it described me as a learner. I felt exonerated and glad that the system was finally starting to understand kids like I had been growing up. But the idea of giftedness fell into disfavor because apparently it made other kids seem less valued so the gifted programs and all that was thought about gifted individuals went away. Special needs kids were given priority with the gifted, pretty much ignored. When I studied hypnotherapy in the 80's we were told about the brain differences in men and women which was also intriguing. In the 90's I went to college (finally!) for an undergrad degree and there were courses on feminism and women's ways of knowing that also discussed how women's brains and minds function compared and contrasted to those of men's. But of course that was all discredited and tossed out because - well sexism, stereotypes, etc. Later, when in graduate school we studied were exposed to the idea of learning styles and how there are a variety of ways that people learn and that intelligence is measured. Nobody uses that information, it seems but I think that knowing one's learning style is a great tool but one that's ignored mostly when it could be extremely helpful in lots of spheres. Now, of course, we're all about neurodiversity which is headed into directions all its own; but I digress... I've taken IQ tests a few times on line with scores in the low to middle 130's which surprised me because I'm effectively dim-witted when it comes to math, so whatever. All of that aside, I'm 78, I have my own private practice and love learning about new "stuff" all the time. I love my brain and I love that I'm so interested in so many things and that my mind still works as well as it does (but don't ask me to remember names!). I love thoughts about the mind, intelligence and giftedness - such fascinating stuff. It's just too bad that the fear of the potential of "betterness" of so many seems to drive an education system developed by what must be a lot of people with IQ's too low to incorporate a broader vision than what we apparently have now in the K-12 system. By the way, I think that most systems unconsciously (at least) lean towards avoiding people who are too smart because we ask too many questions. So the Peter Principle applies virtually everywhere. Anyhow - this was a fun listen.
47:50, why I love Lex. He's a high status intellectual with empathy. I forget who said it, but there's a quote/core principal that goes: "In every path I discover someone who is better than me in some way, and from whom I can learn."
It's pretty clear he has ideological problems accepting the biological facts of intelligence and the socio-economic consequences of accepting or denying IQ (and similar measurements). He seems to be honest and slowly accepts new data and is willing to challenge his thinking and values.
I am two months late but maybe you were thinking of this quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson: “In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him”. Grande abraço!
He is the quintessential INFJ
I agree, as a person who administers IQ tests, that there is a sweet spot.
His egalitarianism is a little out of balance. He has a hard time accepting the paradoxes we live in regarding equality. It’s “uncomfortable”
You should interview Robert Sapolsky. He is a Stanford professor of neurology and has a lecture on human behavioral biology with millions of views that helps people understand what science can say about nature, nurture, and chance in shaping human behaviors
He has, check it out
@@merkisruiz3120 I just checked. Lex hasn’t but Andrew Huberman has. Unless I’m missing it
Linda Gottfredson would be better
As always Lex, thank you. This was a great conversion and a joy to listen to.
Absolutely fascinating! The science speaks volumes. (Also, never underestimate desire, drive, will, and mental toughness when determining who succeeds and who doesn't.)
The science is thoroughly corrupted. Think of the past 4 years.
of course, social aspects matter a lot
Many who fail in the begging end up way better than those who succeed early on.
Massive respect to Lex, who showed deep compassion towards all humanity.
And to the guest, for his scientific rigor and courage.
He didn’t challenge his guest quite enough. What about neuroplasticity? Richard claimed that the US army has a threshold for entry, below which people cannot learn effectively. Does this mean that the ability to learn, to improve one’s reasoning skills, can be achieved by some subset of individuals? And does this mean that the evidence showing the ineffectiveness of brain training should be revisited?
he's trying so hard not to get cancelled
@@henrirapson1403 did you not liste to the whole podcast? To answer your question, yes. It is impossible/ much more difficult for some people to learn or problem solve certain things. This may be some what alleviated by time. As in with more time some can learn.
I apologize but all your questions were easily answered in the podcast. I suggest you rewatch it or listen to it again to help with the time constraints of learning.
@@SliPsHoTiFc I did and Lex didn’t challenge him on this point, as far as I heard. Effectively Richard is drawing from a sample of intellectually impaired people and then claiming that the remainder of the population shares traits with them. This is flawed, and those who have re-run the correlation between IQ and real world success have shown that low IQ predicts failure, but above a certain threshold, the correlation doesn’t hold. If you’re intellectually normal, you can improve your intelligence over time.
@@winstonacousticstudio445 why do you think that? In my opinion he was openly talking about quite some "cancel-worthy" topics, which I found refreshing and interesting.
Kudos for having the curiosity and courage to host an in-depth exploration of such a politically radioactive area of research.
What politically radioactive area is that? I won't be able to finish it for a bit, but I've started watching the interview.
@@paulreadsthebible6584 the study of intelligence levels in different racial groups and how they compare
@@GauravK_ In my country at least it is not political or radioactive. In english speaking countries its an issue because english speaking countries mixing science and politics.
Me personally have no problem that on avarage jewish people are smarter than others. We shouldnt be upset because some people are smarter than others who happen to be a certain race.
The only issue we as a society have as to aknowledge the
@@DrumL3000 And which country would this be that you're talking about? Israel, by chance?
@@Johnny-rj9on I believe the reason he's saying he doesn't mind is because he's not Jewish.
This is one for the records!!
I'll be listening to this one many more times!!
What a treat for a layman in psychology such as myself! i only wish I had such professors in University!
I almost never comment on videos but I have now watched a couple of Lex' interviews and I want to congratulate him. He has incredible guests and asks thoughtful, intelligent questions that are not one sided. The long form of the interviews really lends itself to a full discussion of the issues and Lex does a great job of seeing multiple sides of an issue and asking questions from/exploring those perspectives. Too often, even 30 or 60 minute interviews are superficial, agenda driven presentations searching for sound bites rather than acknowledging the complexity/tradeoffs in various topics. So, kudos to Lex. Whether you agree or disagree with his guests, Lex is doing a fantastic job interviewing them. Let's have more of this.
You can tell how good the interview is by the number of times Lex uses "oh boy"
And Lex is a smart guy so it makes me feel like despairing
You can tell how necessary it is for people to hear, every time Lex says "oh boy". There is no reason to stigmatize open conversations about this stuff... it is necessary for any society that wants to do better. No free country would discourage these lines of inquiry.
Thank you Lex for a masterful and fascinating interview of a deeply interesting and relevant topic.
Thanks a lot Lex. Thank you for the Podcast. Thanks to both of you. It was so pure and honest conversation. Really enjoyed it.
Watching lex talk about the anxiety he gets from testing, and the fact he didn’t know what regatta meant, made me love him that much more. He’s human. And a wonderful human at that
It's an outdoor clothing brand
@@Disastrous_Macaron It's also a yachting or rowboat race ie Henley Regatta very posh
Now I could have sworn Haier was mispronouncing "ricotta", and Lex does come across a turophile, so I was doubly ~~cooked~~ confused.
Have you ever interviewed Sapolsky? I’d love to hear you discuss the same subjects with him as well. You’re amazing!
Thirded, that would be great
Again, it's a briliant podcast. Thank you for the amazing time.
There needs too be a study on childhood trauma/stress/neuroplasticity/intelligence. When your brain is hardened due to being in survival mode at such a young age, there has to be developmental issues/intellect genes untapped. Someone link a study haha
Lex Fridman - thanks for taking up this topic. This is an elephant in the room very few people dare to touch. In my opinion, no topic should be taboo, at least not in this day and age in a free world, as long as the evidence presented is solid. If people do not agree with the outcome, then present an alternative view with evidence rather than banning or discrediting the discussion.
They dare touch it, yet when they do, they are only able to repeat the same stupid topics Jordan Peterson has said 1000 times. These people know nothing.
Intelligence is obviously different amongst the major races given the unique histories of each…but this is a truth that the world as a group is unable to handle given the implications.
So we all have to pretend that it doesn’t exist while living our lives knowing that it is very important…
@@guslevy3506 so why can’t whites dance, have rhythm or improvise in music? Whites generally lack self awareness and didn’t understand that genocide is wrong. Funny how white society only prioritizes one skill set.
"Pfft The bell curve is not academic, it's racist" - Person who never read the book.
"James Watson may have discovered DNA, but his views are RACIST!!!!" -
The illiterate mob
@@guslevy3506 but I find it all so much more complicated. I think there needs to be more discussion on the different types of intelligence. What about creative intelligence or ecological empathetic intelligence, spiritual intelligence, body intelligence. I've seen some really smart people who couldn't move their feet to a beat. Also is it fair to say that anyone who is a racist or bigot must surely have low intelligence. Maybe not in the measure of G. But perhaps low intelligence in the measure of empathy.
What I’ve learned in my years is that intelligence, or ability, is only a part of what makes up a person’s potential. Ideally you want someone who’s able and willing to complete a task or achieve a goal; otherwise, ask anyone who leads a team of people and they’ll tell you a person who’s unable but willing is preferable to someone that’s able but unwilling.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Ernest_Wilkins_Jr.
That's conscientiousness
Of course, absolute zero!
@@BriteRory what a fascinating turn of events
@@steveoh9025 What is Tungsten, or Wolfram. "What is Tungsten, or Wolfram" Is this a repeat? No, no just lately I've been thinking a lot clearer. Like this afternoon.. "What is chicken Kiev", I really enjoyed watching a documentary with Louise.
I am a physics and math teacher in high school. I am very interested in the topics of learning and intelligence both personally and for my work, but I am not a psychologist nor an expert on intelligence, so I like to hear those who are experts talk about it. I often show my students a TED talk by psychologist Angela Duckworth, where she says that her research shows that IQ is not the greatest predictor of success, and this has shown to be true in school, university, work, and other settings. In this interview I listen to another expert, who says that research shows the exact opposite. Maybe not everyone agrees on the fact that IQ is a good measure of what intelligence is, but if experts cannot agree if it is or it is not the biggest predictor of success in school or work, then things get even more confusing for someone out of the field trying to make sense of it.
So sad to see, even in this discussion, how extremely intelligent and educated minds get impaired by the rules and values of far less capable people, called society.
Great conversation. As usual. I am so glad you decided to do a podcast. With so many of them out there, you have beaten the odds and created something truly special and unique.
Can not thank you enough for the lack of advertising.. keep up the awesome work.
No one wants to advertise on an episode about race, gender and intelligence, lol
It's selfish of you to expect a content creator to make free videos for you without ads. How is he supposed to feed himself and why are you entitled to his time. You self bast?+$
Has Lex ever . . . and I mean EVER . . .posted a weak conversation on his podcast? He asks such interesting and insightful questions, exhibiting a genuine curiosity and intelligence that cannot be faked.
Sarcasm?
Congratulations to Lex for a wonderful interview. Richard Haier is a treasure of our species.
Why because he’s saying something you agree with?
@@mosijahi3096 Facts stand beyond agreement or disagreement
@@WheresPoochie facts, what’s your definition of fact?
@@mosijahi3096 Facts are measured and peer-reviewed findings.
If anyone wants to know more about Factor Analysis..
FA is used to explain the variation among many measurements of many things. So, if you measure intelligence with 50 different types of tests on 10K people, you may look for 3 factors that explain most of the variation. Those factors aren’t observed, but inferred. When you’re done, you can say something like “I can explain 80% of the variation among the 50 tests using 3 artificially constructed factors.. so those 3 factors must mean something important”. And typically if you inspect them, you find they are correlated with things that make sense. You can also group people based on those factors.
Richard discusses a powerful factor - the g-factor. When you find something like that, FA really shines. They say, FA has discovered that the "intrinsic dimensionality is low". In other words, something complicated is actually much simpler from a different perspective.
@@outofahat9363 lol yea it's the gay factor. Mysterious solved
You should replace "explain" with "predict"
Pretty sure the G-factor is as old as psychometrics and not something Richard found.
@@marcanton5357 oh that’s my mistake. I’ve edited my comment to be more accurate. Thank you
When you say artificially constructed factors, that would mean, for example, some algebraic formula involving age and number of carrots you eat per month?
As a member of that pool of 51M I want to thank you for taking a complicated topic and making it easier to understand. If I recall the Bell Curve talked about an American society being split into two groups, the university educated higher IQ and the lower educated blue collar workers which over time would associate less and less as they live in two totally separate enclaves. And that that would have serious repercussions for American society.
What I also found funny was this discussion mentioned both Nazi intellectuals and Californa intellectuals in regards to the politizing of intelligence. How ironical. Great interview thanks Lex.
You can’t be part of the 51M because of this comment you’ve just typed. Your IQ must at least be average
Flowers for Algernon is a must read! Thanks for mentioning it :)
Very brave to put this out, rock on!
Lex thank you for helping us with this! Outstanding production
the clerks analogy was genuinely hilarious, you've almost won me over
Lex, while i sometimes disagree with certain guests, your deep, compassionate, thoughtful, intentional style is so refreshing 😊
This discussion has pointed out to me that the individual's level of personal success is greatly increased if he/she accepts their own intelligence.
An individual should avoid being convinced of their ability by parties with ulterior motives, rather harness natural gifts as a path to life success.
An additional question that is always on my mind when we are talking about IQ is this:
I am a Mathematician and in my mind a very important skill is to be able to change your mindset and not be stuck in your first thought or intuition. And this is a beatiful thing about a hard problem that you should be flexible and open not just a computing machine. This happens with time, effort and a structured thougth (plans and heuristics).
Now in my mind IQ is tested with small problems that see computing power and small level pattern recognision. But all important problem are not small and may require something like what I mentioned above, even attention and focus are more important. Is there a difference bettwenn those. Of course there is some corelation but I dont know I have seen many slow careful people make magic. Are there studies that try to see distinctions bettween small and large problems.
IQ tests also assess one’s ability to see patterns of varying obviousness. I think this may bridge the gap between simple and complex problem solving in a score. Complex problems require multiple angles of attack which are often informed by analogous observations (patterns), sometimes in other domains. Finding a pattern in a problem is a key step towards a solution.
I did a full scale psych evaluation once, MMPI and WAIS + interview, I enjoyed it and I got custody of my Daughter, so I will never knock the "Science". Great interview!
This is a very difficult topic. Thank you for contributing to my curiosity!
What a well spoken gentleman. Great convo
This is great great conversation in human intelligence and consciousness. I really love it. Thank you lex.
What it, and Murray/Hernstein's referenced chapter, don't statistically account f/, are the high standardized U.S. test scores by students whose parents are either West Indian or West Africa (or f/ the matter of it, Somali or Ethiopian). Are they not "Black" by U.S. standards? Why do they outperform U.S. academic averages? Why do West Africans avg. the highest U.S. salaries? Why are they overrepresented in medicine and IT? Why is their mean college admission % so high?
@@bijanbayne3259 Nigerians and South Africans were the most highly educated, with 61 percent and 58 percent holding at least a bachelor’s degree. In East Africa it's the Kenyans with 50 percent with at least a bachelor's degree. But it's not a surprise that African immigrants such Elon Musk outperform native whites and others. It's mostly culture and the value of education.
@@bijanbayne3259 All of that yet the homelands of everyone you mentioned is a violent, $hithole. Why does all of Africa rely on the kindness of white men for virtually everything necessary to sustain modern life?
@@timowayne6993 But who's "education". When you say education, what you mean is the white man's knowledge correct?
@@bradjohnson1229 Victim mentality again 🙄
Lex love all your doing at the minute. Hope your safe brother, keep up the work.
Wow! This Podcast always reminds me, I've heard of things but not necessarily about things. The more you know the more you know you don't!! Anyone volunteering to be put under? LoL. Thank you to Dr. Haier and Dr. Fridman for sharing your time and knowledge.
What an amazing podcast! Lex you are definitely my favorite podcast. You ask the best questions. I do psychometric testing in the general education system everyday. I have to tell you, this was so controversial that I consider this podcast to be gold. Richard is amazing, Lex you are amazing. Go Humans!!!!
Lex, thanks a lot for your empathy, I really appreciate it because my adolescence was pretty rough because of this topic. I was seriously interested in physics during my teenage years and i wanted to be a theoratical physics. Then i had a friend from high school that pretty smart can grasp concepts faster than me. At a certain point I began to be unable to understand the theoretical physics concepts but he understood it very easily. I got depressed and spent my adolescence with severe depressions and anxiety because of my biological limits. It may sound simple from the outside but it's hurtful for a teenager who dreams big. Intelligence is real privelege that nobody talks about.
That same kid from your story probably couldn't do some of the things that you are capable of excelling at...He may be able to theorize about physics better, but that alone does not determine a person.
I hope you eventually learnt to play the cards you were dealt. That is how I plan on guiding my son
That's highly questionably a biological difference of intelligence that you observed there. There can be many hidden factors that you are unaware of. That's a terrible way of making an assumption about a serious topic like that.
You probably just learn differently, feel insecure about your intelligence, or weren’t exposed to the same things. If you’ve seen rain before, then someone explaining a shower doesn’t seem inconceivable. Focus on figure out how you learn. What’s enjoyable? Under what conditions? Some people need a lot of breaks. Some people are more efficient at night vs daytime. How much sleep do you need? I personally need complete silence and retain information best in the evening when I’m calm.
More importantly, some people learn by looking at the big picture then zooming in. However, most schools teach by showing you the particle, then zooming out. This can be difficult as you go through the edu system, but has little do with your actual intelligence. Pro tip: In education, figure out what you’ll be required to learn *beforehand* and study over break until you know it. My parents had me do this with math, so i made A’s the following semester although math didn’t come natural to me.
LMAO. If not having a propensity to easily become a theoretical physicist put you into a cycle of depression and anxiety that ruined you, what did you end up as? (except a burden to others). You do realize that probably 2% of the population could be theoretical physicists. 90% of the population could never pass a single college physics course without grade inflation. Have you looked into basket weaving?
This is a really high quality interview. Keep up the good work!!
I like the pop ups from the various books, films, shows, etc that are referenced in the intreview.
One of the largest prejudices we have in society is against low intelligence people. We happily use the words 'stupid' and 'dumb'. This topic would only become incendiary base on the premise that being prejudice based on intelligence is justifiable. Otherwise, why would it be an issue that intelligence was related to genes? We don't stigmatise Irish peopel for being more likely to have Coeliac. I imagine that one of the reasons that we think that low intelligence is a property worthy of sitgmatising is that we think that is based on individual choice. This notion radically disadvantages people with lower intelligence and advantages people with higher intelligence. We have at least acknowledged that people with dyslexia aren't 'stupid', because we admit that it isn't justifiable to be prejudice against them, as it isn't their choice to have dyslexia. However, without this compassion, just based on measurable performance, they would be considered to be 'stupid' in the areas that the dyslexia affects them (dyscalculia, dyspraxia etc.).
It might be the case that we also shouldn't be prejudiced against low intelligence people for the same reason. Removing this prejudice would allow for much more compassion in society. Of course, you still need to do the best with what you have, but we can understand that people have very different starting points and so should have very different expectations about our ending points. Just to be clear, I don't particularly care about the gene and race aspect of this, but I'm more highlighting how deeply ingrained prejudices based on intelligence are. I've known a couple of extremely wonderful human beings with low intelligence. The terrible struggle they had academically is truly heart breaking. Having the whole of society judge you as being unworthy because low intelligence is a justifiable prejudice is soul destroying. We treat it is a fundamental character flaw rather than a difference in mental faculty. They tried so much harder than everybody else to be valued based on their intelligence, but everyone else powered ahead anyway and they were left feeling worthless and marginalised. If you have a good base level of intelligence, then good for you, it's a gift and do the best for society with it that you can. But don't think you are better human being, or that you got to where you are because you tried harder than other people.
Such an interesting episode, thank you so much!❤
So thankful to hear you are safe Lex. Now to watch the video which I'm sure if amazing!
For me, the people that I consider 'super intelligent' all have this trait of extreme curiosity, often manifested by their Googleing what I'm talking about as we are having the conversation. They never let anything that they don't understand go unexplored.
well then. I am something of an "intelligent person" myself.
on a serious note. I think thats just one part of the whole that determines and adds to human intelligence. The way I see it for "high iq" to be successful(financially academically) you need a mix of
factors.
Nature+Nurture(there are exceptions but two parent households with a healthy family environment+Character(a propensity to persevere under duress, willingness to sacrifice, value productivity)+Behavioural traits(low risk behaviour/lifestyle), location(preferably raised in a first world/second world country or a port city/national/economic capital/ regions with eminent research/educational institutions in any country, again there are exceptions)
Being born smart doesnt guarentee success(however you may define it) in life there are innumerable examples in our history, but it is an undeniably valuable leg up(kinda like starting the race ahead)
This just my opinion.
@@alexanderphilip1809 Right, so at a certain point, higher intelligence has negative feedback with those other factors. If you're a very bright kid, you don't study. You don't need to, so there's no incentive to. You can intuit anything that your school is going to throw at you. So you don't build learn to manage your time. You don't learn to maintain focus on unexciting tasks. Those are things that you get from studying and like any skill, you get better at them the more you practice them. By the time there's anything challenging for you, your brain plasticity is already on the decline and assimilating new patterns is more difficult.
What do you actually need to be successful in life, if you weren't born with money and connections? You need self-discipline, you need persistence, you need to be able to comfortably accept failures and setbacks. None of these are skills that a child with very high intelligence needs for their environment until at LEAST high school (depending on what kinds of classes you're taking). You'd be much better off (if you got to pick) being a little more intelligent than average with good drive and self-discipline.
Sounds more like ADHD. Perhaps if they were all that intelligent they would have to be googling everything you say.
I’ve been listening to the episode off and on over the course of a few days, and I can say this conversation has definitely inspired me to work on my cognitive abilities and got me excited about school/learning
Theres nothing to work on; Intelligence, you either have it or you don't.
Excellent discussion. Note: on what to do about the group difference issues. In most individual interactions with other humans, group differences are totally irrelevant. Even groups that are one standard deviation from each other have a within-group variation that is much wider than one standard variation and that individual could be three standard deviations on the high size relative to your group and would just be 4 relative to his group, but if you are very smart at 2 standard deviations up, that individual would be smarter than you.
If you are hiring people, you only care about the individual, and group statistics are irrelevant when you are maximizing the performance of your group.
The association of high G with socioeconomic conditions is a fairly recent phenomenon relative to genetic time scales. Back in the 30's you had "blacksmiths" and "mechanics" with very high G but lower socioeconomic class. In the 60s I met a man in the interior of Brazil who created a modern precision machine shop from the sales literature of machine tool companies starting from nothing in a very poor small town in the interior. He was illiterate and clearly on the lower end of the social scale, but hands down a full genius. He impressed all of us grad. students (engineers doing economic development work) and he noted our value on education and learned to read the following year when we returned.
With all animals when you have a genetically determined factor you have to have a beneficial environment to get a full expression. However, once you get the environment like nutrition close to optimal focus on getting a little closer does little good. "Good enough" obtains full genetic expression, but super genes are irrelevant if you screw up the environment. The environment is often a downside-biased non-linear variable.
Environmental factors can screw things up giving results that are below the genetic potential. Bad teachers, parents, nutrition, etc. can do massive damage but the difference between good and super can't really increase the genetic potential. This is true in animal husbandry and is probably true with humans which is why head starts type programs are only marginal, but perhaps focusing on firing the bottom 10% of teachers, the worst parents, fixing nutrition issues, etc. may at least allow someone with a genetic IQ of 100 express that level and not end up at 86.
Indeed an Intellectually stimulating conversation between 2 brilliant thinkers - giving insights on the types of variables involved in intelligence mapping and studies
Love your work, Lex. Always thought-provoking and inspiring. You have my gratitude.
same here !!
Striving for More happiness or being content where you are is stable and satisfying
I dont know who this interviewer is; but his energy, charisma, & enthusiasm are just *off the charts!!*
"Some of the things we see as bugs might be, actually features, maybe crucial to our overall happiness...as our limitations might lead to More happiness than less",. Awesome as usual Lex. I would have put the preview on 2:17 - "are some people more conscious than others?" ....... the interviews keep getting better. Keep it up!
"are some people more conscious than others?"
And that is the big question!!! LMAO!!
Check out the zip and zap test related to integrated information theory. Some people are probably more conscious than others.
Happyness is overrated in my opinion. Would I give up about 30-40 IQ points to be as happy as a human being is capable of being? Nope. Wouldn't even relinquish 10.
There are levels of consciousness.
Ability to observe, comprehend, and predict the most likely possibilities.
Devising ways to navigate through a previously unknown situation.. Projecting into the future.
Can a mentally handicapped person (less then 70 IQ) negotiate such problems as well as a person of average intelligence? Is there an upper limit where G doesn't matter?
Maybe , but it seems a genius would, in most cases, be more capable then an average person.
Is there an upper limit when height doesn't matter on the BB court? Maybe, but the 7 ft guy has an advantage over the 6ft guy in most cases.
"G" Wilikers! Your quick wit and humor have surpassed your brilliant interview questions and style. Your line of questioning with mild respectful "push-back" is brilliant and successful at obtaining further insight, clarification.
Love that love is always core to all topics.
I bet only 2% of the population experienced what your talking about
I recently read about Billy Milligan and his multiple personality disorder. What intrigued me about his story is that between his personalities there was a lot of variance in iq scores. Is it fair to infer that personality influences your g factor? Or is it the other way around? Does your g factor influence your personality? Or is just a correlation- and not a causation relationship?
Multiple personalities are demons. Many people carry one or more of them. Secularism and witchcraft are much more popular than Christianity, so demons are running rampant in society, producing violence and mental illness. Democrats for example.
2:22:26 Lex, that question/hypothesis may be an answer to many problems. Genius!
Thank you Richard and Lex for the brilliant inciteful conversation. Lex, I have looked into your soul, vicariously through many interviews and you shine like no other.
Insightful
@@stephenmcloughlin9894 didn’t hear? riots broke out
Awww thats so cute. He is indeed beautiful in many ways…
Stay safe brother. Keep being your incredible self and thank you so much for these top shelf interviews :-)
lex fridmans questions are awful from my analysis which means hes useless to me and undesirable i wont be returning for another podacast : ).
Thank you for this podcast as this answers some if not a lot of my questions. Thank you to the both of you and the team behind it!
As I got to know Lex through his podcast I was kind of thinking his naivitate was calculated. I am now revisiting that assumption.
Great conversation! Mr Haier communicates his ideas very clearly without a lot of ambiguous language. I find this so interesting because I have worked hard most of my life. Even so I never felt like I achieved any kind of success. Now that I'm in my fifties I say I've accepted who I am, but in a way I've accepted my limitations because a lifetime of hitting those ceilings has taught me what I can and can't do. It's comforting to think that I did the best I could with what I had. Maybe I just had a limited amount of personal resources I could draw from.
I don't know you but I have an immense amount of respect for you, and I think you're probably a lot more successful than you think, just in ways we don't measure as a society but probably should. Kudos.
Yes ... your Correct !
I like how every video comment section is just a big thank you card to Lex. Amazing community of people following these conversations.
I think it's the new RUclips algorithm for the comments. I'm reading through also and it's absolutely impossible that there seems to be 0 controversy in the comments on such a hot topic!
Question: how does relearning a skill relate to G factor? I use OpenOffice-Draw infrequently: usually years apart. Everytime, I must relearn how to use Draw but I usually relearn the skills quickly. David Butler
Awesome podcast, I loved every minute.
Hi Lex, thank you very much for the EPISODE LINKS. This is a real added value.
Lex; I'm so glad you said what you did about tests vs. homework. I was the same way I could not stop thinking about the time, it's the artist in me. Thanks.
Great discussion. Your guest is amazing!
Brilliant discussion Lex...! And what stands out for me is not only your own intelligence, but the fact that you're a deeply decent human being.
Absolutely amazing conversation, Lex, as always. Thank you for continuing to demonstrate not only the vital importance of listening to what other people have to say, but also the profound beauty that emerges when we are able to do so with an attitude of honesty, respect, humility, curiosity and courage.
It's interesting that despite getting a poor ACT verbal score, Lex is most famous for his conversations.
Lex - one of your strengths as an interviewer is that you are very precise in your descriptions. I think that's a key component of verbal IQ testing - choosing the right 'tool' for the job (ie. the right phrase to best describe your idea). Secondly, you are very good at translating what someone technical says into plain English. That must be another tested skill - manipulating 'text-based' ideas. The last skill I see is that you identify interesting questions within the conversation - questions that target useful / relevant / interesting information.
Lucky for us that there is not a verbal IQ threshold for podcasting.
This talk made it easy to identify 98 percentile I'd like to see more of this guy
Nice work; great conversation and guest. I especially liked Richard's suggestion for research examining if there are interactions between intelligence and consciousness. I'm a school psychologist and administer IQ tests as part of my role, but would like to further the research in the field at some point.
Their is zero relationship between IQ and Conscientiousness. The singular focus on IQ as a performance predictor is concerning to me. I have seen far to many talented people amount to nothing in there life because they fail to work hard, and conversely, many idiots be relatively successful in life because they are structured and hard working in their approach to achieving there goals. IQ is a lot, but its not everything. As an education phycologists, I would employ you to read up on consciousness and its staggering ability to predict good life and educational outcomes. Look up what you can do to improve the conscientiousness of your students.
@@seanwiddowson I know all about conscientiousness, and that's not what I typed. Consciousness and IQ was the suggested study. Two very different things, spelled similar. I could make a joke here but I won't.
So THIS is the silver-lining to my $#!+ week. Thank you Lex! Much Love from Kentucky.
Also from Kentucky, sending double Love to Lex!
31:55 - so the button test doesn't account for people with strong memories about pressing buttons, maybe that specific kind of button.
The delay in button pressing speed is effected, the existence of 'fear' in the situation may also prevent the button press.
I went to Project Headstart in 1965, the first year of its existence. I am white and was lower middle class, not low income. I was in a very small town in the middle of Missouri that did not have public kindergarten and only a couple of rather exclusive private kindergarten schools. It was a summer program that my mom enrolled me in before my 1st-grade year. I loved it and as I recall it was completely integrated in contrast to my school until 3rd grade. Our schools were finally threatened to lose funding if we did not integrate. We really have come a long way.
glad you are doing well!! keep up the good work my friend and stay in touch!
This conversation has broadened my way of thinking, grasping ideas. The scope of understanding human mind is one of the feat mankind must achieve to realize the actual meaning of life.
Until we understand our own self, explore our own deepest mysteries exploring the fundamentals of life would remain challenging.
Richard is a charismatic and brilliant man!
Im not sure we will ever fully understand the complexity of the brain or the reason we are here, maybe not until we die. ❤ there is some reasearch on death and dying, that might be a fascinating podcast.
Richard is a technician. Beyonf the application of technique, which he doies quite well, he is bull shit'ting to people on whom he has used hiis mastery of seductive techniques to go ga-ga over everything he says even when he does not know what he's talking about. At the CIA, he was a Operative, not an Intelligence Analyst. He's faking it when he talks about intelligence and strategy. He has said that the CIA likes to recruit people like him, smart but not that smart. As Operatives, not Analysts. . The CIA does recruit really smart people as Intelligence Analysts bet even there their strategizing based on intelligence analysis is often faulty due to a lack of understanding local cultures and religions.
Thank you for talking about this.