The Neuroscience of Intelligence: Dr. Richard Haier
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- There is almost nothing more important to understand about people than intelligence. It can be measured more accurately than anything else in the social sciences. It differs tremendously and importantly between individuals. It is the single most important determinant of life success. It's very existence, however, remains subject to substantive debate, most of it highly politicized.
Dr. Richard Haier has recently written a major book on the topic, The Neuroscience of Intelligence (amzn.to/2em55A9), summarized in the following manner: "This book introduces new and provocative neuroscience research that advances our understanding of intelligence and the brain. Compelling evidence shows that genetics plays a more important role than environment as intelligence develops from childhood, and that intelligence test scores correspond strongly to specific features of the brain assessed with neuroimaging. In understandable language, Richard J. Haier explains cutting-edge techniques based on genetics, DNA, and imaging of brain connectivity and function. He dispels common misconceptions, such as the belief that IQ tests are biased or meaningless, and debunks simple interventions alleged to increase intelligence. "
We recently spent an hour and a half talking about such things.
For more information about Dr. Haier, see: www.richardhaier.com/
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Jordan… please let your guests finish their sentences… we love you and by now know what you think of things… we’d also love to hear these high quality guests’ views.
Absolutely agree with you
6:31
Jordan: "disgust sensitivity is higher if you've got a lower iq"
Me: *eats shit in display of raw genius".
😅😂
You’ve received a laugh from me frjend
Sounds to me exactly like a Jordan PP cultist
The real IQ test: Eat shit in public as usual but without the cûm & pizz while memorizing ALL the digits of Pi backwards & abstracting the numbers to healthy & good social norms, all this while also decoding the very reason to the existance of foul smell & very rare ant testicles
@@theangrycheeto I notice the left's tactic now is to call everyone who likes anyone on the right a cultist. In fact the general strategy is to label everyone who disagrees with them as the most extreme caricature of evil and ignorance, that way you can dismiss them as a whole person and not have to contend with their ideas rationally.
7 years later. Still amazed that these conversations are FREE to listen too
I am pretty sure if I took an IQ test I'd be disappointed with the results
DEVUNK88 I did although I'm not really knowledgeable on IQ and how it plays out in people's life besides the broad idea that it determines success. My question is HOW and WHY. I got a 120. Not quite amazing. But screw it.
@@triplec7713 Assuming you took a legit test, 120 is the 90.9th percentile which means higher than 90.9% of the entire population. What do you mean not quite amazing? Not a genius but very bright.
Actually, according to the Dunning Kruger effect if you think this you're likely above average.
@@carters1209 Or he could be insecure or maybe just knows his limits and he's right, me personally I'm pretty convinced I have an average IQ that's why I'll never take one, because if i don't, I still have the benefit of doubt, I could be below average or who knows, maybe above average, who cares anyway, it's something you can't change, what's the point of knowing your intelligence limit
@@vernie7882 and TripleC Thank you. Did four tests now. First for german army as every boy back in the days. No result given. Where is that data? Then I did one on my own: 120 also. To the next two decades later I was forced by our governmental job agencies. Again I got no result except having no longer problems with them. - I also consider myself as pretty dumb but I get along quite ok.
7:43: Let Dr. Richard Haier continue to talk about the G-factor/IQ/Intelligence. He is clearly engaged.
JP asserting his dominance throughout. Interesting conversation nonetheless.
He obviously dodged the subject cause he didn't express himself clearly enough. Later he exposes his understanding of the G factor better though and then
Dr. Haier formulates it better yet again. :)
Nah, big deal. Peterson is a beast.
"△△△△ DOMINANCE HIERARCHY △△△△" LMAO! so good
Agree. JBP expressed himself poorly about the G-factor/IQ. Then he draws the explanation of autism which is of low significance at this level of genius. My motivation for watching this conversation was to learn about Neuroscience. Not old empirical facts and research.
Until next time: JBP Should function as a coordinator for words and sentences to make the individual flourish.
Yes, great comment, I was so appreciative of where he was going,,, then pop, all the air gone from my balloon.
When you are interviewing someone or you are interviewed with someone, like on the last Joe Rogan podcast, please give them space to say what they have to say. You said it best: "If dominant rat doesn't lose at least 1/3 of plays, subordinate rat will not play with him again."
Darko S - Well said. JBP needs to listen a bit more.
i agree,sometimes he interrupts when people are responding,this is my only criticism i hasten to add.
Darko S I was just about to comment this, I wanted to hear about the broader sense of intelligence at the start
Honestly I found this not to be interview formatted but a mutual conversation of intellectual fluidity. Both spoke eloquently and brought various research in relation to IQ genetics to the table. They seemed to both enjoy each others dialogue and I extremely enjoyed being an observer!
Almost as bad as an Alex Jones interview. Just kidding, nothings that bad.
"What ended up happening with the Head Start Research basically was the conclusion that it produced no cognitive improvements whatsoever, although more kids who went through Head Start graduated from high school, fewer of them were delinquent and fewer of them became pregnant in the teenage years and more of them went to colleges but that seems to be because they were better socialized, not because they were in any way had been made smarter."
If you ask me, that's reason enough to keep Head Start.
How much per student is the taxpayer paying for such modest benefits? Is the berry worth the squeeze?
I don't see how the government/taxpayer should be responsible for properly socializing children, and the treatment failed to produce the results they'd hoped. Goal was to close the gap in cognitive capacity, not to prevent your kids from getting pregnant at 16. I'm sure parents can provide redeeming qualities associated with Head Start independently
It's called building a healthy society.
@@lask7100 And very likely selection of children from parents who cared enough to not only apply for Headstart for their children but to GET them there, ie have them ready to be picked up, awakened, dressed, etc, keep them there , and possibly give a darn how it was going for them affected later pregnancy rate etc. socialization of children may be predicted by the quantity of socialization of the parents....Mom passed out from drugs in the am would highly correlate with later low socialization of the child....
Thank you Dr. Haier for all your work in neuroscience and cognitive research. It’s greatly appreciated and I hope there will be even more insights into neurological and intelligence research that will open the window to how human consciousness functions.
I feel the need to say that in order to keep this interview in its best perspective, is to remember that " Intelligence is the ability to Adapt".
I'm not even 30 minutes into this but I feel the need to comment. I wish Peterson wouldn't interrupt his guests so much. Sometimes he does it to relay stuff his audience (I include myself in that) have heard him say multiple times over the past year.
Yeah I think it got better as it went on but it was kind of rough by the 23 minute mark.
I was impressed at Dr. Haier's ability pin his train of thought each time Dr. Peterson interrupted and successfully finish his point at his next opportunity to speak. I personally lack that skill, and when I see someone do so well, I take notice.
To be fair, this was labeled as a dialogue and not an interview.
He must have paid attention because he did much better with Paglia.
It's a characteristic of academic lecturers. Understandably so.
Welp, my insecurity about IQ just went through the roof
if an inverse rule is true, then you're probably intelligent than the rest of your peers.
In other words, stupid people don't know that they're stupid. It takes a smart person to realise their stupidity
@Not Robot rember:;::;;Im smaht,not like they say,like dumb : (*((((((
@@statistics2143 well it can do both at least my theory like say tremors are caused by medicine and permanent and they have medicine to counter it now I'm not sure to what degree but also some neurology basically certain places in the brain even say medicine that treat pain for example I know the bad things can happen but it has showed to increase functions in some and especially some with mental health issues but lots of this is very complex like other medications has an effect on neurology and things say I'm me I can explain when I was a kid I could read something over and over and couldn't remember but whatever happened now I can remember things at a very fast rate but that medicine that causes tremors really shocked me bc even when you stop it the tremors are permanent and I've seen people with it so it's like wow and yes I watch what I take bc I didn't think a medication would change the brain bc it has to be motor function or central nervous system or even the frontal lobe
This is truly excellent content Mr Peterson. I am a geologist by education and trade, though this field of research interests me greatly, the implications of the things discussed here affect everybody.
I have a very good memory, which has benefited me throughout life , giving me an advantage in most academic situations. I feel that part of consciousness and personality come from how we learn to use our brains in early life. When I need to remember something, I have noticed that I tend to strip things down in a way that other people I know do not, I seem to be able to get to the root of the thing I am trying to remember, which makes the task of remembering it that much simpler. Most people seem to remember lots of noise that surrounds an issue, perhaps they are more socially aware than I am, so they are paying attention to things that I am simply not concerned with.
Very interesting. I got curious about intelligence after I was diagnosed with adhd a few years ago. Always thought I was somewhat intelligent, but not much above average. Barely graduated high school and struggled with education afterwards. Then I got the diagnosis and received therapy and medication. I couldn't believe the effect that had! It's been a wild couple of years for me, and I'm now almost done with my master's degree in IT-law! :D
Good for you dude. I also suffer from adhd and I'm looking for a resolution
Congrats! Glad therapy/medication helped!
Like the scientist said, and this is important, probabilities are not determanistic. And a lot of these kinds of scientific projections are probability based. Good for you.
We live in a time where you just gotta take the medication. For me it’s the same, I felt like I was really intelligent as a kid, I did weird stuff like program, listened to Beethoven and idolized him, found the idea of a Christian god stupendous the day I first heard of him, and then once I got erections that all went away, then I went on medication, problem solved, but also social life completely ruined, I’ve got zero social skills now because I fail to put up the goofy exterior I used to. If our food wasn’t poisonous and our culture not envious toward intelligence, we would live in an environment where we didn’t require medication. But unfortunately, in this atmosphere we absolutely do. Nowadays, people are frightened of a solitary 24 hours, their frightened of the solution, so they create an environment where you are manipulated into believing you have a mental disorder if you psychologically react to it
@@lawsonbill1255 Frankly in an environment where anything and everything is constantly seeking not only your immediate attention but to dance around your thoughts incessantly as many hours of the day as possible - medications allowing you to focus seem to be the best course of action.
It'd take an inhuman will to resist it these days, especially since kids are now raised from birth immersed in it.
By far my favourite discussion so far. I listened to it twice. I could have easily listened to the discussion on this subject for another few hours. There is just so much on this to discuss, and it's one of my personal interests.
My professor covered the genetic components of intelligence in my human evolution class. Unfortunately he was fired and the class was changed to flora & fauna evolution, due to "Racism and sexism" Even though as a woman I found nothing remotely opinion based or sexist about his lectures. However, it lit a fire in me for the subject.
Even though my degree is in genetics, I was unable to find work and ended up in computer engineering instead, but I still like to keep up to date with the research. it's nice to listen to discussions like this rather than the one dimensional written dialogue of research papers.
Thank you again for having Dr. Hier on, please do ask him to come on again.
did your professor get fired because he covered the genetic components of intelligence? If that's the case, we are living in a scary world.
@@msprokofiev8716 Maybe he touched on the bell curv or pointed out the differences between men and women relating to intelligence.
Speaking as a self-proclaimed intelligent and creative person, I can say that there is an actual struggle - not from a victim perspective, mind you, but from in terms of lack of purpose and direction. I am 29 years old and currently working full-time at a minimum wage job. I was 10 credits away from a B.A.S. degree in 3D Animation and Visual Effects, but as I had 0 financial support from my family in the beginning of my higher education experience, I could not maintain my loan payments (which I had to begin paying back while in school) and was kicked out. I tell people that I have that degree still because it seems like such a small distinction to me. How can 1 course on how to properly sign business contracts make so much of a difference in people's opinion of you as a person, especially when I had actually taken an even more comprehensive course on my own and paid for it myself already. Now this is a very specific incident and does little to show evidence of a true "struggle," but I felt like it was important enough to note because it set the tone for the rest of my 20's.
I set out at 21 with 4 years worth of knowledge and an IQ of 136, but no degree in the Bay Area and after a series of unfortunate events I ended up homeless in Oakland, again with no option for support from my family financial or otherwise. Well, now this was pretty much as bad as it could get, I thought. No food, no job, no money, no home, no car, no degree... just a high level of intelligence and creativity and nowhere to apply it. For those of you reading this now and thinking "get a job bum" or something along those lines, I am onboard with you 100%, but I couldn't get a job. I applied at minimum wage positions and listed my experience as a computer programmer who speaks 5 languages and has leadership qualities. I was overqualified and couldn't even get an interview. I applied for entry level animator jobs but I was under experienced. I applied to job placement centers and sent my CV to every opportunity they sent me. What I got back was"We regret to inform you that..." you're going to be homeless for a while longer.
I suppose it doesn't even need to be mentioned that this lifestyle had led me to have virtually no social relationships now and I can't seem to get back into social media. I certainly haven't had anything like a sexual relationship or a close personal relationship in over 8 years now, and if you'll take my word for it - I am an objectively good-looking caucasian male with good hygiene, so please don't consider that a major factor. My ties to my family could be described as loose to non-existent. The social media aspect of this is an interesting phenomenon in itself, really. I took a break from social media because - as I stated earlier, I don't enjoy victimology despite how this accounting is beginning to sound now, and I couldn't think of what else to do but yell for help from anyone who would listen. I got a few likes and some hotlines for homeless services and job placement centers from my 500 "friends" and I decided that I didn't even need 1 friend if they couldn't help me out when it really mattered. Now as an artist I am attempting to make headway back into the social media arena to share my work and get feedback, but it is so difficult to come to terms with these paradigm shifting life changes and I feel a strong desire to stay away still. Partly because I don't know anyone of those "friends" and acquaintances anymore. Most of them I haven't talked to for nearly 10 years already and our lives have gone in such different paths that I can hardly relate to them.
It's as if when I see my facebook news stream, it's a fictional movie of the world playing out that everyone is supposed to call reality, and if you disagree then it doesn't matter what your political leanings are for the most part - you're just anti-social. I stated before, I'm 29 years old, and now I am seriously wondering if I am going to be alone for the rest of my life. That is the most terrifying thing I can think of really, well, it's up there when it comes to tough conditions of life you may have to really accept. In my mind, I'm not anti-social. I'm just anti-most-of-the-people-composing-society-at-the-moment. There are a lot of people I really enjoy spending time with and I have a great sense of humor too, so I do actually like some people and I can always find a reason to laugh. When things were at their worst for me, sometimes I would actually just bust out laughing in the middle of the night to the point of tears at how ridiculous my situation was.
I have a very strong work ethic from growing up working with my mom at a flea market/auction almost every weekend as a kid, and I have no apprehension about breaking a sweat. All I could do was keep looking for jobs and try to survive until something came together, so I turned to government welfare in the meantime. Even with assistance programs, I was living under a bridge and not able to get inside of the men's shelters because the homeless population in some major cities is so massive that there are nowhere near enough facilities for them to sleep indoors at night legally. SO now I am looking for a job, any job... applying everywhere, holding signs, saving up my food stamps and avoiding mentally diseased people who walk around at night into homeless population looking for someone to stab or shoot. So, I was stabbed on a couple occasions and the government allowed me to get stitched back up without adding to my nearly $90,000 of debt I still had to contend with at some point. And I thought to myself again... "ok, surely this is as bad as it can get."
I finally got enough money by doing odd jobs and some website design at the public library among other things to get a room for a couple months in someone's house and I made it my mission to get a job no matter what to keep that room. I have glossed over a lot of major points that influenced my life obviously, but my point is that I have a room now and I have maintained a job for 1 year, but it's a minimum wage job and over 50% of that is going to taxes and my wage garnishment to repay student loans that automatically applies any time I get a job now. All I want to do is make things more efficient and beautiful. I know that if I had the right opportunity I would change the world, not in a self-aggrandising way I hope, but more in the sense that I have spent over a decade studying and gaining knowledge from a variety of sources, that, when combined with a high intelligence factor could lead to nothing other than truly unique results. For instance, I am constantly noting policies and procedures effectiveness and the way that my coworkers react to changes and 1,000,000 other things. My brain is racing like a jackrabbit and just spewing ideas out so fast that I can't write them down or do anything about them. I have no idea where to go from here, and just constantly discard gold into the intellectual black hole of apathy. I can't even talk about this stuff with anyone because I'm instantly called narcissistic, and I admit up front that I think very highly of myself and my skill set, but that is because I have worked hard to create this personal toolbox, not because I think I am better than anyone in a general sense! All I can say is thank God that I found Dr. Jordan Peterson because even though I already have had to do a hell of a lot of room cleaning before this learning about him, I am starting to believe that there is some hope for the future, possibly. Still not sure what that looks like though because I eventually want to be great at many things at once, and I don't like being told that something is impossible when it comes to human potential.
P.S. I apologize for the length of this comment but it felt as good as any a place to vent. I also apologize for any poor grammar or phrasing - I don't consider myself a good writer yet and I am just trying to make sure I get all my words out for now.
How are you holding on now? Hope you're feeling better.
I can relate to much of what you wrote too. Practically threw my youth away by making wrong turns while having big potential. I'm 29 now and really lonely.
Well, I am 36 but I also can relate with almost all that you have laid out including with your family and then discovering Jordan Peterson. However, in the last three (3) years -- my discovery of and participation in the Quora platform has certainly benefited me more than anything else.
Albert Einstein once said:
“Physical concept (theories) are free creation of human mind, and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined by the external world (the Law of Nature). In our endeavor to understand reality we are somewhat like a man trying to understand the mechanism of a closed watch. He see the face and the moving hands, even hears its ticking, but he has no way of opening the case. If he is ingenious he may form some picture of a mechanism which could be responsible for all the things he observes, but he may never be quite sure his picture is the only one which could explain his observations (Hypotheses). He will never be able to compare his picture with the real mechanism and he cannot even imagine the possibility of the meaning of such comparison.”
Only if his Hypothesis through times corresponds to the reality he observed then it can be accepted as theory.
I didn’t get to finish the rest of the paragraph man but if you are in the bay are and overqualified for some jobs just make separate resume with less details about yourself so you can come off as less qualified. Especially in Bay Area you may not like this but quick money you should work as a server just to help you get by find a very nice restaurant with a lot of reviews and strive to become a server making a lot cash tips and also working on socializing. If your customer service is great you will be essentially networking indirectly which can lead into more jobs.
Point is, I would just grab a job to make type of money while you figure out your loan and degree situation. Maybe you could find people to room with to offset rent payments. Once you establish a base you can go off from there
My friend is a teacher and he pretty much puts all the trouble makers into one group all the super smart into another and then teaches the rest of the class. The smart ones can be given just about any task and get it done. The trouble makers cause nothing but problems no matter how easy a task they are given.
IIRC this was something Kant did with his students as well. Smart practice!
I used to mix the two general types, which seemed to help the less conscientious but often frustrated the more conscientious. My hope was that they'd benefit from at least learning compassion by helping others along.
@Mike Fuller The thing is: most disruptive minds aren't brilliant; let's not fall into that trap
Are you for real!! Is this school at the gates of hell?
Frist thank god you are not a teacher.. and hope the school & teacher you are referring to are a figment of you're vile mind/imagination. I don't see that happening in any schools as it would promote segregation and also be disruptive..
Good strategy
Dr. Peterson, you barely let this man get a word in edge wise. We know your ideas, and they're great but we want to hear the guest.
Trauma and IQ. It'd be nice to hear a deep discussion about those correlates. Specifically emotional trauma. Not focused on blunt force trauma except as a comparison.
Here's what I don't understand. It is repeatedly said that conscientiousness has 0 correlation with IQ but on the other hand they say that disgust sensitivity is correlated with IQ. But isn't disgust sensitivity also correlated with orderliness? Wouldn't this mean that orderliness has a negative correlation with IQ?
Dr. Pederson has really helped me out the past few months. I've gotten myself out of the deli department at Vons and into a personal trainers job at 24 Hour Fitness. Thank you for you mind and intellect sir.
awesome man, keep thriving!
I'm at the 14:12 mark & Dr. Peterson has done 75% of the talking. Based on the comments I'm reading, this continues for the entire conversation/interview. Don't get me wrong... I can't listen to JBP lectures all day! However, when you're interviewing or even just bantering with a guest, it's typically more productive to let them speak more than 25% of the time. -I still love ya JDP!
This channel is one of the most valuable sources of information. Keep up the great work! A huge thank you from Germany.
Jordan Peterson, thanks for the content but let the guests finish their thoughts.
Individuals who are high on trait openness can't help it. Sure enough somebody already pointed out he "talks too much", but I'm not sure there's anything one can do about it.
Such individuals tend to conduct poor interviews, but also awesome lectures!
Of course there is. That are just tendencies nothing is fixed
he talks too much about nothing at all - a speculative waffle machine for the most part. (@@zero0The )
@@zero0The Unsure if this is a trait openness thing, wouldn't interrupting be more an disagreeableness thing?
@@gavincohen4506 Really? Could you be more specific? Occasionally I hear folks such as yourself level this type of criticism at Peterson, however I have yet to hear actual details to substantiate the childish condescension- or weakly constituted dismissive generalizations meant to invalidate his theories and thus silence him.
I'm really glad to have finished watching the whole video and get it summarized! It was a harsh high g demanding work for me lol.
So far, the truth about IQ(g factor, consciousness, or whatever we call it precisely) seems to be consistent on what Prof. Peterson held in his lectures and this video. But the major problem is on analyzing the cause/consequence relationships according to scientific data. Dr.Richard have been studying on this subject for decades and wrote down "what we know about intelligence till now" in his latest book.
In some sense, he is sincerely looking for ways to increase human cognitive abilities using neuroscientific ways just like the way pills affect our biological system. Assuming that many problems in today's society are happening due to people lack of intelligence, the intelligence is highly based on biological and genetic components than the environment, and that it is the responsibility of society to handle this seriously, he is hoping his research to be helpful to the society.
Fantastic talk! Thank you very much. I'd love to hear more from Dr. Richard Haier in the future.
Two supreme minds in a deligtfull discussion. Would like to see more of Richard Haier in RUclips space as well.
There is so much I don't know about Neuroscience but this is still really good to hear. It gives me ideas for questions to ask.
I remember reading some papers years ago that demonstrated a considerable effect of speaking multiple languages on resisting the functional deficits of Alzheimer's disease, despite no apparent diminution of the physical disease processes. I've had some similar personal experience with compensating for cognitive impairments by remapping the impaired functions through different schemes of symbolism. The most striking example followed from my almost total loss of the use of numbers following a fever in 1999. After a few years living with the impairment, it came upon me to consider other numerical systems, and I found impairments to be much less severe in other systems, and I was able to use numbers again, provided I used alphabetical, additive numbers system rather than a purely numerical, positional system. With practice in additive, alphabetical systems, I found the impairments in usage of modern non-alphabetical, positional numbers systems were attenuated considerably. There was an initial burst of improvement, but in the years since then impairment has continued to attenuate at a lesser but still demonstrable rate.
This is very high level conversation, a peak into your academic world. Please continue to share these interchanges despite most of it going over my head (so to speak).
What what parts over your head?
No it is actually pretty shallow.
'Peek'
Dr. Peterson, please let your guests talk more. You are a wonderful lecturer and a joy to listen to. A lot of us have watched and re-watched all your lectures.
New discussion about the research into intelligence, on the internet today.
This is my favorite one so far.
NICE JOB TEAM.
It's so good to listen to people talk about things they really know a lot about
We need to start listing all the books he mentions throughout the videos in the comments.
This is a very interesting discussion between a man who is doing theoretical and experimental studies on the brain itself and the other who works on the practical application of self knowledge and enhancement of life style by utilizing good cognitive standards - they both compliment one another during their conversation - I really enjoyed this.
Great discussion! Dr P was a little excited to get his knowledge of Neuroscience in the beginning. Once he let Dr. H speak then the conversation became very useful and enjoyable.
Fascinating conversation with ideal and yet practical solutions. An optimistic outlook for our future, and one that needs more audiences tuning in!
Another fascinating discussion, thank you both!
The discussion on attention as one of the three foundational components of intelligence or 'G' factor, I found extremely interesting. While I'm in no manner a psychological student, as a higher level IQ electrical engineer working on systems, having moved into upper level management of large numbers of high level technical organizations--I found in personal observations, trials, and reasoning that the basis of IQ (as a general term describing the abilities to reason through and derive workable solutions to complex situations lacking significant quality and qualities of known introductory factors) really depended on the ability to, what I termed, 'focus' at the time or 'attention' as Peterson and Haier discuss. Not what is often commonly thought of as excluding external 'noise', but more to intensely envision a situation and sense, or 'see' interconnections temporally and spatially and then to 'see' external factors to a point that a workable solution became apparent and also revealed or pointed to other non-connected (or not apparently connected) situations for which a very similar solution often could be applied. If that describes my term of 'focus' or attention as Peterson and Haier discuss, it seemed obvious to me in the 80's, but I found it very difficult to describe to others whether in writing or verbally. So I guess not so obvious--regardless of others comprehension, I found the concept highly successful in determining the makeup of problem solving sectors of such an organization and in finding individuals in which mentoring and increasing levels of challenge could provide significant returns.
So very interesting and thanks for the interview and post.
What other factors would you consider important when trying to find the right person to mentor?
Thank you both for this important and engaging conversation. I wish it was a bit longer but I look forward to the follow up on consciousness.
Great interview! Many thanks Jordan for providing a nice, in depth coverage of this topic!
Hey, these guest discussions/lectures are great. The discussion aspect of this video helps to in a sense 'dumb down' the information presented into a more conversational tone, which is great for the intrigued non-experts. So thanks, and keep up the good work.
Why use the word dumb down
Add another book to my shelf. Thank you for this. I've been researching this area of intelligence as it relates to leadership associated with predictive models of capability. It's pretty obvious to me why leaders should be the smartest but I wonder why some of the least intelligent hold the highest power.
I've also been trying to find relationships between evolutionary psychology and intelligence. I need more of this.
Dr. Haier is the true progressive, a believer in the possibilities of science and knowledge in general to improve the human condition.
i disagree with all the comments about JBP interrupting.
I see this kind of thing is more of a conversation than a interview, and I find it very helpful to be able to connect the dots between JP`s stuff (that I`m more familiar with) and the guest work and terminology.
Then again, I`m just a nerd lawyer that doesn`t even work on the field.
It's interesting. I've encountered ppl who have amazing processing skills, an ability to learn systems, math, etc and yet they seem so utterly dull, blinkered, and myopic in how they perceive life, in how they express themselves and their ability for abstraction, ideas, concepts etc. And I've met ppl with such sharp wit and comedy, wisdom, amazing use of metaphor and analogy and yet they failed ordinary maths paper, cant learn a new language to save their life, etc. I dont say this to counter what's been said in the discussion but just out of mere interest.
Michael Shannon Absolutely agreed, that's because there are different types of intelligence, and you can be considered "intelligent" even if they are mutually exclusive for you. Linguistic, spatial, existential, logical-mathematical, etc. all are an indicator of intelligence, yet some are difficult to quantify.
There is a so called emotional intelligence, which I think is wrongly labeled. People who can read social cues and develop negotiation skills are more likely to succeed, but general intelligence is a big plus. I also think it is not accurate to say that someone has ability to "learn systems, math, etc.", and not able to think abstract ideas and concepts. Math means to think abstract.
Numbers are a low level abstraction. "How / how many / for what purpose" is still very concrete compared to "what/why / for what reason"
I didn't refer to first grade level math.
@@criss5405 Yes exactly. There's literally a field of math called ABSTRACT algebra. I think @Smol Waev probably didn't make it very far in math. Advanced math is abstraction in its purest form.
I was one of those subjects in the study of mathematically precocious youth decades ago. Interesting.
So many people complaining about peterson's interview style, however I actually quite like it.
When you're talking about complex concepts, you often need to set the seen for the audience, also it seems that for peterson to learn and sense check the interviewee's ideas, there needs to be more of a back and forth.
Everyone has their own style.
I can't believe I spent the last hour and half watch this episode. Very entertaining and informative.
This has been very educational. Thank you.
My IQ is 119 - I have studied law at a masters level and economics and psychology at a bachelor level. I often felt rather dumb at uni and worked twice as hard as most people to get the same grades. I didn’t really fit in, it takes me so long to keep up.
Outside of uni, when people talk I always find I’m questioning - does this person have a point I don’t get or are they talking stupid? Often when people say and do things, Ill spend time giving them credit and I’ll look for the deeper meaning and have to stop and tell myself often it is likely there actually isn’t any.
It's a discussion. I think he is so immersed in the convo, he just immediately responds. I understand the criticism though. It is nice to hear others' views and introspection from their field.
I think an interesting thing that's pretty tragic for me personally, is that PTSD can significantly affect IQ.
I was a high IQ individual, never tested but I excelled in all the measurable criteria. And I did very very well in the world. I quickly rose through the corporate ranks into upper management.
But then a host of things happened to me, death, loss, health issues, divorce caused by grief from those issues.
I lost my marriage, lost my job, lost access to my kids, developed severe anxiety and depression.
After two years of trying to get back on my feet I found that my mind just couldn't do what it used to. Things that used to be simple were so so difficult.
I felt so stupid. Why was I forgetting simple things? Why was my work taking me so long? I ended up getting let go.
I have found that my mind after diagnosed complex trauma has been significantly impacted.
I'm currently trying to resolve that trauma so my cognitive functions can recover.
But until then my resume shows that I'm overqualified for positions I don't currently feel cognitively qualified for.
The professors make a very good point about separating intelligence and virtue. There's no correlation there. Some extremely brilliant people have turned out to be some very malevolent people indeed. Very stupid people also tend to be very honest people, and when they're not honest they tend to be poor liars. We shouldn't be contemptuous of people lacking in intellect; we should give them a break.
Well, those who studies giftedness point that a common characteristic of gifted people is having a higher level of empathy and ethics than neurotypical people. Giftedness is not necessarily connected to high IQ, but most gifted people have high IQ.
But what about all the low IQ that end up in prison? The average IQ of a violent criminal isn’t high.
@@martinlutherkingjr.5582 Hmmm...maybe the smart criminals don't get caught? Just a thought.
@@martinlutherkingjr.5582 There’s a lot of corruption within systems,corporation, government, they’re smarter, well connected, protected, and know how to use deception, manipulation and influence to achieve their goals. Higher functioning criminals if you will, or at least narcissistic egomaniacs. Yes, the typical low iq violent criminals typically get caught along with those of lower socioeconomic backgrounds.
@@martinlutherkingjr.5582 This guy is not talking about low iq, he is talking about retarded level iq like sub 80. Otherwise, you are correct low iq like 80-90, a lot of them will resort to crime to make money or out of frustration of not having any.
Jordan Peterson should invest in some podcast equipment like Joe Rogan. Multiple cameras, microphones, lights, etc.
He does get a lot of money from his viewers through Patreon and donations, so that would be the least we could expect of him to be frank
He needs a Jamie.
purity, because the message will then reach MORE people. That seems simple enough.
Part of the reason for the particularly low audio quality was that Dr. Haier wasn't using headphones, so there was a bit of feedback. It actually wasn't bad considering, they must have had a fairly low latency connection, or Dr. Peterson's recording software did a good job of removing it. However it would be nice if he got a decent microphone and an analog to digital converter along with a better camera for recording on his end. Unless he's doing the podcasts in person like Rogan, it wouldn't do much good to have multiple mics cameras and a Jamie to operate them.
I also have to point out that because of where he lives it would be less convenient for JBP to do podcasts in person than it is for Rogan. Rogan tries to schedule podcasts around when people are going to be in LA. As a last resort, he will fly people out if he really wants to get them on. Flying someone out drastically reduces the long term viability of podcasting though. People, especially entertainers frequently live and travel to LA because it's a sort of mecca for that business. Toronto, although it is a mecca for entertainment in Canada pales in comparison to LA.
Powerful JBP
Another interesting conversation, what really pisses me off is the lack of this on national television!
Wonderful discussion. Thank you Doctors!
I agree that the correlation between poverty and (low) IQ is pretty self evident. As you say, though, there are interesting outliers to this.
One outlier that comes to mind is the pulp fiction writer H.P. Lovecraft. Read the footnotes to his stories, and you quickly come to grips with what a scholar the man was. He makes clever references to ideas and themes from so many sources, ranging from Einstein to Nietzsche to Baudelaire. Lovecraft was clearly an _extremely_ smart man in many respects. He led an extremely sheltered life, however, and appeared to find life something of a struggle when his mother died. He himself died in abject poverty, showing that a big brain isn't always any guarantee of affluence, any more than a low IQ ensures poverty.
I know people in my own life who strike me as being staggeringly intelligent, much smarter than I am, but who appear to have no motivation to do anything, or they're afraid of their own shadow, and spend listless lives of idleness. You could offer them a job that, intellectually speaking, they could do in their sleep. What they'd actually spend that intellect on is finding clever ways to tell you why they can't accept that job.
I grew up in poverty with an IQ of 158 lmao
Yes exactly, very relatable
Like they said in this video, you have to pay for what you get, so the struggle you go through to realize your potential can actually be ten times bigger than for many other people.
That fancy intro though
The image was actually inspired by the music :D
Tymprasta different piece.
Johann Sebastian Bach.
Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 in G major, BWV 1048. Allegro.
ruclips.net/video/QLj_gMBqHX8/видео.htmlm55s
I like that piece more than the other intro. That's my jam!
Hey Dr. Peterson, first I hope your lecture with Saad, etc. went well tonight at Ryerson. I wanted to say that this is among my favorites of all your videos. It is really interesting (they all are, but I just really was on the edge of my seat on this one). Thank you!
I think we can view these as more of a conversation than an interview. In an interview, the interviewer seeks to enlighten the listener. In a conversation, the participants enlighten each other. I believe this is more in the second category, with JBP bouncing ideas off of an expert to further his own understanding, and to improve ours in the meantime. Good because it keeps the topics centered on ideas relative to the channels focus, while gathering information from a variety of non conventional and diverse sources.
Interesting, although I think Jordan talks a bit too much in this specific interview, should´ve left more space for Dr Haier.
He has a tendency to do that in any interview. ^^;
Benjamin Andersson He thinks he's the man, that is quite clear. He's a narc
I thought of it as more of a conversation rather than an interview.
Really?
Is it an interview though?
It was a very fascinating interview. I would love to see more such discussions. You focused a lot on the challenges people on the lower spectrum of IQ are facing, but what about people on the higher end? They are not automatically more successful because they are more intelligent. I find that they are often even treated with hostility by the general public and the education system. Sometimes they "dumb" themselves down in order to fit in and as a result do not develop their potentials or worse. I think that more mature discussion on intelligence would help them as well. Could you cover that sometime? Thank you.
I love your musical and visual introduction. GOOD JOB!
This is an excellent talk. It does leave me optimistic. Thank you both
Let him Talk!
A potential problem with vocational IQ testing is that lopsided psychometric profiles are actually very common in certain populations. A person with a lopsided psychometric profile may take your fluid IQ test and get an overall IQ of "113." You tell him to go be a great plumber. Turns out that he has poor spatial intelligence and 95th percentile verbal intelligence and he could be a great lawyer. Or it turns out he has high spatial intelligence and mediocre verbal intelligence. Perhaps he could be a great surgeon. You'd need to have enough resolution on the IQ test to identify if the person is outstanding in any particular domain because, if so, it may pay for them to try to specialize in that domain rather than go for an occupation that matches their overall IQ. You don't want to be telling an Ashkenazi Jew with a verbal IQ of 125 that he's not fit for grad school.
ok you are talking about vocational testing which might be different. watch Haier's 18 part video series on Intelligence to get answers. Quick answer is the 13 tests on WAIS correlate. Meaning they seem to be referring to a more general thing "G" general intelligence. Or to put it another way, most people that do well are good on all tests. You wouldn't be good on 12 things and fail the thirteenth. Of course with stats there are individual exceptions.
@@georgeh8937
Can you link to it?
Great talk and very intellectually stimulating. I would like to see Dr. Haier on the channel again as soon as possible to elaborate on his points. Dr. Peterson was on point as always but may have cut him off a few times here or there.
what an amazing topics. Thank You Very Much! For sharing your knowledge an Intellect
Thank you once again, Dr. Peterson for continuing to enlighten the masses and be a beacon of hope in rather perilous times.
I want a BLT now, thanks fam.
Nothing much hopeful about this lecture, a short reading of which could be "IQ is a fixed genetic trait you are born with that will be a bigger determinant of your lifetime success than anything else. Oh, and you can't raise it, so if you're low-low/average, you're especially fucked, seeing as society is only becoming more cognitively demanding. Good luck."
I identify as a genius.
Spook Flytalker I identify as a fish taco
Spook Flytalker I identify as a dead person so I should not be taxed by the state.
Geralt de Riv Clever girl!
"Gemanious" (masculinum), "Gefeminious" (femininum) aaaand "GEHENEFOE AIFNEAPFNEAFAFOAPFINASLNLJASD" (Non-binary gender)
Spook Flytalker
You need a pretty high IQ to do that around here.
Thank you, guys, for so many thoughtful insights concerning intelligence.
I really enjoyed this. Please return for a discussion about consciousness, that would be fantastic.
And here I thought Daenerys Targaryen had a drawn out intro.
Tetris! I used to consistently drop 120 pieces per minute on Tetrinet without ever failing. The only way I would ever lose is by other players bombing me with lines and blocks etc... I used to play everyday after work for a couple hours. It is rather amazing how you could fascinate yourself by your own ability. I used to find it fascinated how fast I could play the game. Same thing with first person shooters like counter strike. You get so good and so fast that you surprise yourself how consistent and fast you can be.
Extremely interesting talk. It would fantastic if we could discover a way to increase IQ...and of course, promote, expand and facilitate education and the cultivation of wisdom and virtue to make that advancement truly beneficial to our species and the world in general.
I really hope you bring Dr. Haier back to discuss consciousness!
These guys are very respectable. This comment is a placeholder. I will edit this when I have questions
Dr. Haier is clearly the expert here and I wished he were given the opportunity to elaborate more on some of the points he tried to make, but was continually interrupted by Dr. Peterson.
As much as I admire Dr. Peterson, I wished he were not so hard-set on his belief that IQ tests correlate 100% to a person’s intelligence level. I know some highly intelligent people who did not have the advantage of university education, yet are very successful in their careers. One particular example is a friend of mine who was thrown in a special Ed in class in elementary school, because the instructor mistook his extreme shyness as stupid or slow to learn, yet today he is an engineer with a top company. Dr. Peterson should not be so enthusiastic about putting people in categories and boxes. People learn in different ways, and obviously not everyone is great at the same things...otherwise, Mozart would have also been an Einstein.
Dear Professor Peterson,
I have been listening to your lectures on Maps of Meaning and reading the accompanying textbook for a while now. In both, I believe you mention your resolution to only speak that which you believe to be true, or at least to speak in such a way that might lead to the truth. My question is this: have you found some way to be both tactful/polite while also maintaining this doctrine of truth? I understand that, soon after adopting this rule, your ability to engage with others in dialogue was distinctly lessened, and your insight would be much appreciated in my attempt to undertake this same rule for speech.
I understand that this is likely not the optimal way to reach you, but I have found no suitable alternatives.
Sincerely, an admirer and student of yours.
P.S. To the Commentors - It would be very helpful if this comment were liked enough times to drive it towards the top, to (hopefully) better ensure that Dr. Peterson can read this and reply, preferably in video format so that others who have the same question might receive an answer.
Great video thanks to all who helped make it happen
Thank you so much for this video. Extremely interesting.
I thought the ability to delay gratification was the more significant predictor of an individual's success and overall happiness.
Courtesy of Molynuex.
That ability is basically a part of conscientiousness which is strongly correlated to long term success
Bearly Legal
And it's highly corrolated with intelligence
It is... nofap
looking good JP
I found his really interesting and it makes sense to me on how the mind works. When you first learn a skill you are thinking about it but after you get good with that skill it goes into the back of your mind and now you do it without really thinking about it. I've seen it happen with me and how I play games or work.
The research on The Endocannabinoid System and Ketosis are the links to increased IQ due to their ability to decrease Alzheimer's Disease and other neurodegenerative diseases which ultimately stem from metabolic dysfunction. As I'm watching this I'm getting goosebumps to the parallels I've found between Cannabis & Ketosis, which inspired a theory of my own, that I can now include IQ into the mix - thanks for the inspiration!
ayyyy fam that new intro music lit af
Translation to English: "ayyyy fam that new intro music lit af"
Translation to English: "Well hey my beloved friends (or family), the melodic music presented at the intro of this video is highly pleasurable to listen to."
we need to find jobs for people like ben sayre
Hahahaha
Get to folding that paper into thirds, Ben. Mind the pictures.
Update: They've actually discovered the genes for schizophrenia. I spoke with the doctor behind it (during a wedding like 6 months ago). They are preparing the research result for publication, but apparently they found them. From what I could gather from our conversation it was a combination of 4 or 5 gen sets. The research is from the central hospital in Oslo, Norway. So if the professor is interested he might want to contact them (I can probably find the doctor's name as well, if needed, though they should make all of it public soon enough).
@Luis Silva I would too. Authors or title of the paper?
Same. Keep me in the loop
I think it was a good back and forth conversation JP didn't interrupt in any rude way in my opinion. Great video.
Thank you for uploading your discussion
Gosh, let him talk
Fantastic discussion! Thank you or the upload.
Very interesting and deep talk. Many thanks. Really appreciate it.
So I'm just going to say this real quick. It is interesting to me how attached people will get to the way a person discusses a topic with another person to the point where they feel the need to expand upon it in the comment section instead of focusing on the topic of the discussion with complete focus. They are talking about some of the most intriguing and in my opinion important topics ever and people are stuck on the socially correct way to interview someone. This is not Late Night with Blah blah, it is two extremely intelligent scholars having a discussion on intelligence and the possibility of it originating from genes and or environment. Listen and learn instead of trying to boost your ego by trying to feel like you could be relevant in some way to the discussion by correcting trivial things. Our ability to listen, learn and share are more important than we can possible comprehend. (And before you say I'm doing the same thing here, I'm not. But I damn sure that JP will see your comment and I don't want you all to cause him to speak less in these discussions because that defeats the purpose of discussion.)
Speak less, no. Let the interviewee finish a sentence or a point, yes.
Love the new intro. Sort me sort me please!
You have to do the sorting yourself, bucko.
Fascinating discussion.
Amazing talk, thank you Dr's
Jordan, I'm a huge fan of yours. These videos are a real treat because unlike most interviewers, you are yourself a knowledgeable academic which means you can ask more relevant questions and contribute intelligently to what your guest is saying. But with that being said, I would recommend that you ask questions and allow your guests time to speak. The Joe Rogan podcast is a good example, where Rogan asked you questions and then let you expound on your ideas. I would like to see you do the same with your guests. Regardless, you are one of the greatest intellectuals of our era, and thank you for the work you do.
It's a discussion not an interview
LogicalRobot
Not an argument.
And It's Not even an interview, ffs.
JP is too confident and intimidating! We know you're smart bro, but let the specialist talk for a bit! He's smart too ;)
I suck meself
@@robertimmanuel577 wow
Haha 😂
Fascinating discussion. Thank you
Very interesting interview. Well worth the time listening.