Chester and Liverpool Costco queue around the block during the day! Southport today saw a new build Sainsbury with a ev hub when the store opens with about 10 chargers.
i did that a local Asda with a polar charger and paod £11 per month. I did about 20000 miles charging froma supermarket in Exeter, sainsbury and this was 22kw for my 40kwh zoe. also used to charge at eden project for free when visited most Saturdays, happy days!!
Modern batteries have good battery management systems with battery conditioning. If you only charge your battery to 80-85% regularly, that will extend battery longevity markedly. Also the grid will use electricity from your battery far gentler than any driving.
V2G sounds good, but my understanding is that the best measure of how long a battery will last is based on the number of cycles a battery goes through. I don't imagine the V2G would take the battery to 100% and down to 0%, but it is still discharging and re-charging, perhaps twice a day. Looks like you might need a spreadsheet to do a cost-benefit analysis. Now, if you had a spare battery then it should all be good. Every year as battery technology improves the benefit will be higher, but you might imagine that energy companies will acquire batteries for themselves when it becomes a no brainer. I suppose land needed to store the battery has a cost so it might still be beneficial to use cars.
Ultimately I think this is why LFP battery architecture is a better buy. Ability to discharge to 0%, recharge to 100%, cheaper, and 33% or more cycles.
I wondered about this. A charge cycle doesn't have to be 100% to 0%. Even small charges and discharges all add up to one complete charge cycle. So if your car battery is doing double the amount of cycles it would normally do with your daily use, does this mean you half the effective life of the battery?
@@mbak7801No it is V2L, not the same at all,so are all the others mentioned, including my MG4. V2G needs an expensive grid tie inverter installation at your home. 👍
As someone who walk to work and keeps a car primarily for weekend trips, V2G would git my lifestyle perfectly as, during the week, the car is literally just sitting there in my garage all day, plugged in after charging is long complete. Unfortunately, it does not yet make sense for me, due to the fact that my utility doesn't offer it and, even if they did, I would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new car to take advantage of it. But, 10-15 years into the future, when the technology has advanced, prices have gone down, and I'll need another car anyway, this is something I can definitely see myself doing.
I'd advise against buying a Nissan Leaf to get free charging. I bought my Nissan Leaf as a mobile home battery, after seeing numerous UK trials on RUclips. Unfortunately a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! I already knew that the Wallbox Quasar that supported V2H/V2G cost a fortune (4,500 Euros plus installation) but after buying the Leaf I discovered that the Quasar had been discontinued, to be replaced by the CCS based Quasar 2. In the end I didn't buy the Wallbox, as it was way too expensive for a charger that was discontinued and wouldn't be compatible with any EV that I'd buy in the future.
You are probably right, but Octopus Energy Power Pack is only a beta. There will be the early adopters out there who want to make use of v2g and happen to have a nissan leaf and the spare cash to buy the 2 way charger. I guess this is how things start, Octopus are obviously not expecting too many takers, but that's fine as it's a way to build up knowledge and experience for them for the future. Ultimately it's just the first move in what is bound to have many iterations of learning and development.
It's a start, not a non-starter. You have to start somewhere. It will only get cheaper and more cars will have it. Why the pessimiism and blinkered short-term outlook?
@@jlcTTT no, every manufacturer abandoned Chademo in Europe. Only older cars have it. In Japan will still have a future. CCS can technically do bi-directional energy transfer, but it's not defined in the standard. So likely there will not be sny v2g charger anytime soon
@@AdrianNelson1507 Yes. Chademo which shows how much of a half assed car that is. It's proof that Toyota didn't apply themselves, not that Chademo has a future in Europe
Dave, are you planning to do a video on the newly opened Gridserve EV charging food court at Gatwick airport? Especially an in-depth video on it. Or have you already done it? I can't remember it or find it searching your video list.
I do believe that the future will show far more FREE Electricity as the competition gets bigger and EV uptake expands. The FREE shopping Mall and Supermarket chargers could well return as a pull for more customers.
I have had free charging since i got my EV I'M on Octopus intelligent and use dishwasher and washing machine on cheap rate my electric bill was £94 a month without EV now about £89 a month!
At the moment the big barrier for most people to do this is the cost of the V2G charger (nominally £5k) and you need a chademo car most people would do better to get home batteries and they can trade electricity without the worry of having to have the car plugged in I do it now and spend very little on electricity for both the house and car but at least it shows you where we are going with this
Correct, most people don't understand the theory, to feed into the grid a grid tied inverter is required (similar to solar Installations)to match the voltage and frequency of the ac mains⚡.@terrymackenzie6784
Wonder if a slight fiddle could be had here with V2G. Buy cheap Leaf AT sub 3K, Actually cheaper than buying a battery pack, but then connect a 2nd car that you would use.
I was reading up on that octopus power pack bolt on, but it wont support tesla or my hypervolt, but my car can be connected for 12 hours most days. Do i want to be part of the grid storage system where i am not in control of whats in my car is an entirely different question.
So you just drive up to a restaurant, plug in and away you go. Where we are they have free chargers, and when you drive up there is always a huge queue. Or someone plugs in and goes away for a full day. Then if you can't connect you need to drive round the town looking for a charging point.
@@John-FourteenSix That would reduce your liability to the amount you paid for the battery and installation but, I have no idea how difficult it would be to get the local utility and city to approve that installation for grid hookup. I just added solar and Tesla power wall and that took about 2 months for Tesla to get the installation approved.
Would only do it on a leased one We don't need a mileometer on electric, we need a battery cycle counter really Might look at a used EV but it had cycled thousands of times
I reckon there is a place for charging cooperatives, find sites in the community, local council car parks etc and fit cheap ac chargers accesible to coop members, could be bookable by app at a much lower cost per kwh than the commercial outfits, would help those that cant charge at home and therefore ev uptake
it will be great when V2G does start to become widespread. People will realise that an ICE car has no chance of doing this and having an EV with V2G when you have 60+kWh in the car, the home using even 10-20kWh still leaves a lot of range. If this means the home use is then free it will be an absolute winner.
I read an article pre-pandemic, about motorists in Norway who were signed up to V2G schemes. Many of them were earning the equivalent of £20 to £30 per week, selling electricity back to the grid for more than they paid for it at the time they charged up. The V2G system can "learn" your regular range requirements, and so does not leave you stranded. You can of course override the system and set your own low "waterline"if you wish.....
I’ve just gone into to free charging at hotels ,where my daughter lives up north the hotels advertising free charging we’re about £30 more expensive per night than the ones where you paid for charging and they were more expensive than a premier inn , so really you are paying also where I live after 11pm there is a 15 minute time limit in the car park
i applaud your enthusiasm, I have EV and ICE car. But it doesn't take 4 hours to fill your petrol tank or 30mins at 95p kwh. even the the cheapest chargers at 35p kwh slow make petrol cars cheaper to run and easier. Remember most EVs can only ac charge @7.2kwh = 9hrs to charge so public AC charge points are pointless. As far as free charging is concerned and hotels. 4 EVs arrivve and how many charge points? I suppose they could use ac charge points for more? to get overnight charge. 10 evs arrive? Unfortunately as fuel prices come down and EV garages now rip off EV drivers - my first service was 190 readies! Oh you need a special technician, hence cost for a 15 min check. So petrol companies win again with push back and lobbying for hybrid cars. Also EV prices drop to 1/2 price after a year for 2nd hand. Again good effort but realistically EV charging in public needs to be around 25p kwh on DC chargers to get people to change.
Hi @davetakesiton thanks for another useful video :) a couple of videos ago you showed a map of current new EV chargers being built out. Can you share a link to this please would love to have a good look
I still get free charging at Tesco whilst waiting for my wife shopping - what happens is when you plug in your charge starts but they give you 5 mins to confirm your charge on the app. After 5 mins without the confirmation the charge stops. So I get out unplug it, then plug it back in again. I look like an idiot as I'll do this every 5 mins but I don't mind! You'd be surprised how much charge I can get after an hour and a half of this!
Hi Dave, With the Vehicle to grid option, is there a problem of battery usage? Batteries have a lifespan generally (often) expressed in terms of how many charge/discharge cycles they will perform, am I missing something here?
Most batteries are managed very smartly, and have battery conditioning. If you mostly only charge to 80/85% the life time of the battery increases markedly. It’s that last 20-15% that reduces battery life more than the cycles
We are about to buy and move into a new build house with an ev charger in the garage. Hence, is it time I switched to an ev!? I'll be following your channel more closely now Dave! 🫶
Free charging, no thanks, its too expensive. I'm on octopus intelligent go and have solar. I could charge on solar for free, or pay octopus 7.5p kwh for and overnight charge. Its cheaper to do that and sell the solar to octopus for 15p kwh. So my EV charging is effectively -7.5p kwh.
You also need a vehicle with the obsolete chademo standard (essentially a Leaf or a gen one Soul or some old Lexus i forget the name of) AND a £4k bi directional home charger. A smart charger would be needed but immaterial to this bigger picture, (and I've no idea why some get bent out of shape about those but thats a side issue even if you dislike them) So, fuggedaboudit. Maybe some day CCS will support it but don't hold your breath because it also needs the manufacturer to support the frequent battery cycling. Some will, some won't. It also suffers from the main issue that if the car driver needs to go out the whole thing falls apart as a concept.
The electricity retailer gets very unhappy and will sue anybody who makes an analog electricity meter run backwards without their knowledge and consent. I have stories. Just for fun when I first got my solar panels installed I shut down my house and went on holiday for a week. I got a letter from the electricity retailer noting that my electricity bill would show zero consumption but they were still going to charge me a connection fee for the time the meter ran backwards. It was 500Kwh in 21 days. About $120 of electricity they took then sold for 100% profit. My feed in tarrif was $40. I still got a bill for the connection fee. They knew what they were doing
I cant say anything about the V2G offers but what about hotels how many chargers will they have for free and how many customers will want this do you have to book the charging with your room booking and the same goes for ab&b don't you think that the price will have been calculated to include the electricity you use into your nightly stay rate so not free. I have seen many you tube videos of people queuing to use public chargers so it's not going to be as easy as you portray I'm sure especially as the use of EV's grows.
I'm in the market for a new used car and have been playing around with the figures and as it stands an ev doesn't stack up mainly down to paying 10 to 15k more to buy, yes it will be 750 to 1200 a year cheaper to run but the extra cost over a deasil won't pay, my volvo has 150k miles and it gives me 48 to 60 mpg so it's cheap to run. So how can I convince myself to opt for an ev that if I keep it till 100k + miles it still has the range as when brought just like my ice car. I won't be able to charge at home so will have to rely on work and at the moment it will cot me 65p per kW because of the electric business contract we are in ( next year we get new deal 32p per kW) or I will have to use car park chargers, if I change my euro5 car for a euro6 car I can fill up anywhere.
All I know Dave is that the UK government screws the motorist at every opportunity and I cannot see that changing whatever version of political party we get HMRC will advise ministers as the EV fleet builds. Currently subsidies through BIK and salary sacrifice are in effect this will be withdrawn over time as it is a subsidy for the better off. V2G will be great for a small number of motorists who make it work theveffrct on the vehicle battery cycle life will need to be factored in. Personally I like the idea of a second vehicle in the household being all electric but up front costs are a big disincentive by that I mean the high purchase price of new EVs and the purchase and installation of a charger (this is where government subsidies should be aimed). Every technology has its day and there are signs that EV tech is getting there just waiting for some battery technology and for Chinese manufacturers to frighten the life out of the traditional auto makers.
That's a very pessimistic view. In the real world battery prices are falling all the time, so the shortening of battery cycle argument will become less important. Also it will be very difficult for governments to increase taxing EV charging without taxing home consumption. If they try, people will simply charge either from a 32 amp plug at 3kw (same as an immersion heater) or people will get solar panels and charge from their surplus, or a combination of the two. Also the potential grid balancing potential of v2g is so positive, governments would be very foolish to disincentivise it.
@jlcTTT Trouble is HMRC is hooked on motoring taxes like a drug and will look to replace fuel duty revenue through "carbon taxes" Battery tech will get there but takes longer than needed just like Fusion. My point is the current tax subsidies BIK salary sacrifice will not survive very long as EV become more commonplace and price parity nears and the only car makers likely left standing for mass market are likely to be Chinese and that I do not want.
On the flip side, I ensure I avoid venues / places / businesses that advocate favouritism and discrimination on their customer base, depending on their vehicle type, and letting some have free fuel. If most apply this logic it will ensure that free-loading EV owners are the ones actually paying for their charging, because their 'free' charging will actually be included in a higher charge for the service being provided. Just like Santa and tooth fairies, there is no magic money tree. Some are just more easily manipulated in certain directions, by greedy people and businesses, by their illusions.
Is free charging such a good deal? I suppose it partly depends on how many miles you drive per day. I haven't done the maths, but I'd guess that you could earn more by charging your car from solar or at cheap rate, and powering your house from your car. You could then sell excess energy back to the grid at peak rate. And don't some UK energy companies have schemes in which they pay pounds per kWh during periods of exceptional demand? Has anyone done the maths on this, or have experience themselves?
From what I understand, whether you have Octopus Power Pack (the free EV charging deal) or not, this will not effect any surplus generation you are exporting and getting an export tariff for. They have an info page on their website. And it's peak times morning and evening when you will be giving v2g, when you are much less likely to have surplus solar power to export, whilst charging your EV will be at night, so I think solar will be perfectly compatible.
Local Hotels that do free Charging = The best place to stay for EV Drivers I love them. Air BNB Ev Charging Filter has never worked well for me. The people who Advertise they have an EV Charger is not really always true.
I can't have a home charger. The cheapest charger near me is 79p kWh. Lets just say I fully charge a 64kWh car. It's going to cost me £50.56. For that I should get around 280 miles. The cost of petrol near me at the moment is £1.40lt. I would get over 70lts. In fact I can't get 70lts in my car. But a full tank I can get over 400 miles. Go on say it You never charge the car to full. And I very rarely fill my car. So how car running an electric car work out cheaper. Don't forget from next April you've got road tax to pay. That's not including the extra you have to pay on insurance.
'Theres a snag' - Yeh, do you fancy buying a crap old car and a four thousand pound charger for "free" charging? FWIW i spent £250 on home charging to do 10k miles last year. So just the charger alone would be a 16 year payback. Of course you might do 20k or 30k miles a year but then you won't be using an old Leaf ! As for V2G from Kia, Hyundai etc are you sure? Or are you referring to the 2kW to 3kW AC output they can produce? Which isn't V2G.
The newer kias/hyhundais going forward such as the Kia ev9 have v2g. Personally I wouldn't touch v2g with a bargepole even if you paid me, nevermind 'free'.
Would everyone who can take advantage of this offer please put their hands up....., lots of "free" advertising for Octopus is probably a better way of looking at the reason behind launching this scheme.
They’re installing 350kW chargers yet nobody can charge at this speed. It’s called future proofing. We will see many more EVs this year and some of them will have V2G.
the V2G vehicles don't exist. Ant that's because the protocol itself hasn't been defined. The British Gases of the world will do all they can to prevent that. Technically one could come up with an adapter that uses the current V2Load and modulate the power to maket it into a power exchanging system. But let's just say that I wouldn't do it on my own 20k vehicle. I would happily experiment on someone else's 😂
We are constantly being told there is already plenty of availability on the National Grid to charge all the cars in the country when they are electric, so why would we need V2G when we have smart charging? Apart from the very very limited choice of vehicles compatible, and the up front cost of installing the necessary hardware at a multiple thousands cost for each unit (payback for which could take years) what effect would this have on battery longevity. 356 V2G cycles at (guessing) 5 hours per day equates to an additional equivalent battery usage of 48,000 miles per year. All concealed from an unwary buyer when the car next comes to market as this would be the petrol equivalent to winding back the mileometer. I personally wouldn’t go near a car that had been used for V2G if it were to be adopted but I doubt it will, as anyone who does any sort of risk/benefit analysis can see how unattractive this really is to the EV owner.
Did it not occur that Tesco withdrew FREE charging due to the abuse by selfish drivers 'camped' for the day with picnics, flasks and TV apps to hog the chargers all day. I got sick to the back teeth of arriving at a charger at 10am to find all chargers taken, only to return 5 hours later with the same cars parked. It was taking the P and unsustainable. Abused and withdrawn, what other option did they have? To see 6x DPD vans parked overnight taking free charging where no one else could get near. I wrote to the CEO of DPD as Leyland Tesco, you could forget charging due to two everynight DPD drivers, a Tesla and one of two expensive Mercs or BMW. Many a night I pulled a vehicle off a charger and stretched a cable to mine parked behind. Selfish abuse of a good thing a few ruined!!!
Let's get real. To charge a 60 kWh battery with a 7 kW charging station will take 8.5 hours to fully charge. Try taking you eV on vacation, say about 400 miles away and the agony starts. Yes, if there are no hills, you don't turn the air conditioner or heater on. Don't run out of charge anywhere or the real fun starts. My car, a KIA Forte will travel 460 mile on a fill, and I can use the A/C, heater and lights at night. The fill up takes 5 minutes and I am on my way. Oh yes, those hills and motorway driving is not problem. eV enthusiasts are delusional, and very bad evangelists for folk who drive gas or diesel cars. Those multi-thousand dollar batteries are the weakness of the whole system. Conclusion: don't listen to this guy and keep you sanity!
And the chinese or the Russians will find it so easy to destroy our Electric grid. It's scary how they be able to cyber attack using the EVs and Smart metering. Already some Chinese chargers have been found to be lacking in security and would be vulnerable to attack.
So we shell out £30+k to save a bit driving around to find a free charger or we book a table at a restaurant and book into a hotel shelling out a few hundred quid to get a free top up. Maybe you’re just to smug, bragging about your lifestyle to realise there’s a cost of living crisis for most. Most but not you!
Love your optimism, Dave.:)
Chester and Liverpool Costco queue around the block during the day! Southport today saw a new build Sainsbury with a ev hub when the store opens with about 10 chargers.
Great information thanks for sharing. Im literally new to EV public charging . As cannot have home charging. Your videos are extremely helpful.
Thanks Dave keep your videos and great information coming much appreciated thank you
i did that a local Asda with a polar charger and paod £11 per month. I did about 20000 miles charging froma supermarket in Exeter, sainsbury and this was 22kw for my 40kwh zoe. also used to charge at eden project for free when visited most Saturdays, happy days!!
I've had to queue at Tesco before for petrol and diesel.
Modern batteries have good battery management systems with battery conditioning. If you only charge your battery to 80-85% regularly, that will extend battery longevity markedly. Also the grid will use electricity from your battery far gentler than any driving.
V2G sounds good, but my understanding is that the best measure of how long a battery will last is based on the number of cycles a battery goes through. I don't imagine the V2G would take the battery to 100% and down to 0%, but it is still discharging and re-charging, perhaps twice a day. Looks like you might need a spreadsheet to do a cost-benefit analysis.
Now, if you had a spare battery then it should all be good. Every year as battery technology improves the benefit will be higher, but you might imagine that energy companies will acquire batteries for themselves when it becomes a no brainer. I suppose land needed to store the battery has a cost so it might still be beneficial to use cars.
Ultimately I think this is why LFP battery architecture is a better buy. Ability to discharge to 0%, recharge to 100%, cheaper, and 33% or more cycles.
I wondered about this. A charge cycle doesn't have to be 100% to 0%. Even small charges and discharges all add up to one complete charge cycle. So if your car battery is doing double the amount of cycles it would normally do with your daily use, does this mean you half the effective life of the battery?
@@Smith_Tech_70 That's my thinking, but I'm only guessing.
Currently only available to cars with the (disappearing?) Chademo connectors.
No. Any connector type. The new Dacia does V2G.
@@mbak7801 according to octopus website must be chademo compatible currently Nissan leaf, env200 and Mitsubishi phev only.
@@mbak7801No it is V2L, not the same at all,so are all the others mentioned, including my MG4.
V2G needs an expensive grid tie inverter installation at your home. 👍
As someone who walk to work and keeps a car primarily for weekend trips, V2G would git my lifestyle perfectly as, during the week, the car is literally just sitting there in my garage all day, plugged in after charging is long complete.
Unfortunately, it does not yet make sense for me, due to the fact that my utility doesn't offer it and, even if they did, I would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new car to take advantage of it. But, 10-15 years into the future, when the technology has advanced, prices have gone down, and I'll need another car anyway, this is something I can definitely see myself doing.
I'm guessing you are in the states. Can you not switch to a different utility provider? I gather you now have Octopus Energy over there too.
I'd advise against buying a Nissan Leaf to get free charging.
I bought my Nissan Leaf as a mobile home battery, after seeing numerous UK trials on RUclips.
Unfortunately a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!
I already knew that the Wallbox Quasar that supported V2H/V2G cost a fortune (4,500 Euros plus installation) but after buying the Leaf I discovered that the Quasar had been discontinued, to be replaced by the CCS based Quasar 2.
In the end I didn't buy the Wallbox, as it was way too expensive for a charger that was discontinued and wouldn't be compatible with any EV that I'd buy in the future.
You are probably right, but Octopus Energy Power Pack is only a beta. There will be the early adopters out there who want to make use of v2g and happen to have a nissan leaf and the spare cash to buy the 2 way charger. I guess this is how things start, Octopus are obviously not expecting too many takers, but that's fine as it's a way to build up knowledge and experience for them for the future. Ultimately it's just the first move in what is bound to have many iterations of learning and development.
The octopus scheme is a non starter. It's only available for Chademo plus V2G charger. The charger alone costs 7k
It's a start, not a non-starter. You have to start somewhere. It will only get cheaper and more cars will have it. Why the pessimiism and blinkered short-term outlook?
@@jlcTTT no, every manufacturer abandoned Chademo in Europe. Only older cars have it. In Japan will still have a future.
CCS can technically do bi-directional energy transfer, but it's not defined in the standard. So likely there will not be sny v2g charger anytime soon
@@BGS_123 Lexus UX entered the chat. Actually isn't the new Lexus chademo too?
@@AdrianNelson1507 Yes. Chademo which shows how much of a half assed car that is. It's proof that Toyota didn't apply themselves, not that Chademo has a future in Europe
Dave, are you planning to do a video on the newly opened Gridserve EV charging food court at Gatwick airport? Especially an in-depth video on it. Or have you already done it? I can't remember it or find it searching your video list.
I do believe that the future will show far more FREE Electricity as the competition gets bigger and EV uptake expands. The FREE shopping Mall and Supermarket chargers could well return as a pull for more customers.
I have had free charging since i got my EV I'M on Octopus intelligent and use dishwasher and washing machine on cheap rate my electric bill was £94 a month without EV now about £89 a month!
At the moment the big barrier for most people to do this is the cost of the V2G charger (nominally £5k) and you need a chademo car most people would do better to get home batteries and they can trade electricity without the worry of having to have the car plugged in I do it now and spend very little on electricity for both the house and car but at least it shows you where we are going with this
There is no restriction on connector type for V2G.
Correct, most people don't understand the theory, to feed into the grid a grid tied inverter is required (similar to solar Installations)to match the voltage and frequency of the ac mains⚡.@terrymackenzie6784
Wonder if a slight fiddle could be had here with V2G. Buy cheap Leaf AT sub 3K, Actually cheaper than buying a battery pack, but then connect a 2nd car that you would use.
Yeah but the v2g charger costs about £1k. Its a start tho..
Does 1st gen leaf do v2g? I thought it was only the newer ones.
@@jlcTTT they certainly do V2L, they were used in Japan back in the days of the Fukishawa nuclear disaster. In that way they are superior to CCS.
I was reading up on that octopus power pack bolt on, but it wont support tesla or my hypervolt, but my car can be connected for 12 hours most days. Do i want to be part of the grid storage system where i am not in control of whats in my car is an entirely different question.
So you just drive up to a restaurant, plug in and away you go. Where we are they have free chargers, and when you drive up there is always a huge queue. Or someone plugs in and goes away for a full day. Then if you can't connect you need to drive round the town looking for a charging point.
Everything has a cost and the downside of V2G is the reduction in lifetime of the battery for the owner.
Literally took the words from my mouth ... Was about to type the same. Especially if you have a ev9.
How about having an old EV battery in the first place and using that?
@@John-FourteenSix That would reduce your liability to the amount you paid for the battery and installation but, I have no idea how difficult it would be to get the local utility and city to approve that installation for grid hookup.
I just added solar and Tesla power wall and that took about 2 months for Tesla to get the installation approved.
interesting
Would only do it on a leased one
We don't need a mileometer on electric, we need a battery cycle counter really
Might look at a used EV but it had cycled thousands of times
What about when everyone is at work during the day and can’t be plugged in at home to make use of that offer?
I reckon there is a place for charging cooperatives, find sites in the community, local council car parks etc and fit cheap ac chargers accesible to coop members, could be bookable by app at a much lower cost per kwh than the commercial outfits, would help those that cant charge at home and therefore ev uptake
Costco should get on it
it will be great when V2G does start to become widespread. People will realise that an ICE car has no chance of doing this and having an EV with V2G when you have 60+kWh in the car, the home using even 10-20kWh still leaves a lot of range. If this means the home use is then free it will be an absolute winner.
I read an article pre-pandemic, about motorists in Norway who were signed up to V2G schemes. Many of them were earning the equivalent of £20 to £30 per week, selling electricity back to the grid for more than they paid for it at the time they charged up. The V2G system can "learn" your regular range requirements, and so does not leave you stranded. You can of course override the system and set your own low "waterline"if you wish.....
But you have to consider extra battery degradation.
I’ve just gone into to free charging at hotels ,where my daughter lives up north the hotels advertising free charging we’re about £30 more expensive per night than the ones where you paid for charging and they were more expensive than a premier inn , so really you are paying also where I live after 11pm there is a 15 minute time limit in the car park
i applaud your enthusiasm, I have EV and ICE car. But it doesn't take 4 hours to fill your petrol tank or 30mins at 95p kwh. even the the cheapest chargers at 35p kwh slow make petrol cars cheaper to run and easier. Remember most EVs can only ac charge @7.2kwh = 9hrs to charge so public AC charge points are pointless. As far as free charging is concerned and hotels. 4 EVs arrivve and how many charge points? I suppose they could use ac charge points for more? to get overnight charge. 10 evs arrive? Unfortunately as fuel prices come down and EV garages now rip off EV drivers - my first service was 190 readies! Oh you need a special technician, hence cost for a 15 min check. So petrol companies win again with push back and lobbying for hybrid cars. Also EV prices drop to 1/2 price after a year for 2nd hand. Again good effort but realistically EV charging in public needs to be around 25p kwh on DC chargers to get people to change.
If I had to pay for an expensive meal of hotel I'm not sure I'd say the car charging was free - '"included" would be more appropriate
Do they trickle petrol in whilst you eat?
@aussie405 no but they might provide "free" parking and use of their toilets! 🤣
Hi @davetakesiton thanks for another useful video :) a couple of videos ago you showed a map of current new EV chargers being built out. Can you share a link to this please would love to have a good look
I still get free charging at Tesco whilst waiting for my wife shopping - what happens is when you plug in your charge starts but they give you 5 mins to confirm your charge on the app. After 5 mins without the confirmation the charge stops. So I get out unplug it, then plug it back in again. I look like an idiot as I'll do this every 5 mins but I don't mind! You'd be surprised how much charge I can get after an hour and a half of this!
we are going away next weekend to a hotel bedruthan steps in newquay and has free charger, 11kw.
Hi Dave,
With the Vehicle to grid option, is there a problem of battery usage?
Batteries have a lifespan generally (often) expressed in terms of how many charge/discharge cycles they will perform, am I missing something here?
I was thinking the same.
Most batteries are managed very smartly, and have battery conditioning. If you mostly only charge to 80/85% the life time of the battery increases markedly. It’s that last 20-15% that reduces battery life more than the cycles
Love your videos thank you
We are about to buy and move into a new build house with an ev charger in the garage. Hence, is it time I switched to an ev!? I'll be following your channel more closely now Dave! 🫶
Hilarious, I assume you only got to restaurants with free charges to get your 33 miles, the words skinflint comes to mind. 😂
Octopus energy do not 0pperate in Northern Ireland so we miss out again having only one Tesla charging station and very very few of any other chargers
Free charging, no thanks, its too expensive.
I'm on octopus intelligent go and have solar. I could charge on solar for free, or pay octopus 7.5p kwh for and overnight charge. Its cheaper to do that and sell the solar to octopus for 15p kwh. So my EV charging is effectively -7.5p kwh.
Do you need a smart meter for vehicle to grid?
You also need a vehicle with the obsolete chademo standard (essentially a Leaf or a gen one Soul or some old Lexus i forget the name of) AND a £4k bi directional home charger. A smart charger would be needed but immaterial to this bigger picture, (and I've no idea why some get bent out of shape about those but thats a side issue even if you dislike them)
So, fuggedaboudit.
Maybe some day CCS will support it but don't hold your breath because it also needs the manufacturer to support the frequent battery cycling. Some will, some won't.
It also suffers from the main issue that if the car driver needs to go out the whole thing falls apart as a concept.
The electricity retailer gets very unhappy and will sue anybody who makes an analog electricity meter run backwards without their knowledge and consent. I have stories.
Just for fun when I first got my solar panels installed I shut down my house and went on holiday for a week. I got a letter from the electricity retailer noting that my electricity bill would show zero consumption but they were still going to charge me a connection fee for the time the meter ran backwards.
It was 500Kwh in 21 days. About $120 of electricity they took then sold for 100% profit. My feed in tarrif was $40. I still got a bill for the connection fee. They knew what they were doing
I cant say anything about the V2G offers but what about hotels how many chargers will they have for free and how many customers will want this do you have to book the charging with your room booking and the same goes for ab&b don't you think that the price will have been calculated to include the electricity you use into your nightly stay rate so not free. I have seen many you tube videos of people queuing to use public chargers so it's not going to be as easy as you portray I'm sure especially as the use of EV's grows.
I'm in the market for a new used car and have been playing around with the figures and as it stands an ev doesn't stack up mainly down to paying 10 to 15k more to buy, yes it will be 750 to 1200 a year cheaper to run but the extra cost over a deasil won't pay, my volvo has 150k miles and it gives me 48 to 60 mpg so it's cheap to run. So how can I convince myself to opt for an ev that if I keep it till 100k + miles it still has the range as when brought just like my ice car. I won't be able to charge at home so will have to rely on work and at the moment it will cot me 65p per kW because of the electric business contract we are in ( next year we get new deal 32p per kW) or I will have to use car park chargers, if I change my euro5 car for a euro6 car I can fill up anywhere.
Stick with the car you have now as it makes sound economic sense ...
The future is LESS PUMPS-MORE CHARGERS.
Cheers Dave
This is fantastic you need to get urself a referral link and make some affiliate commissions thank me later 😊
All I know Dave is that the UK government screws the motorist at every opportunity and I cannot see that changing whatever version of political party we get HMRC will advise ministers as the EV fleet builds.
Currently subsidies through BIK and salary sacrifice are in effect this will be withdrawn over time as it is a subsidy for the better off. V2G will be great for a small number of motorists who make it work theveffrct on the vehicle battery cycle life will need to be factored in.
Personally I like the idea of a second vehicle in the household being all electric but up front costs are a big disincentive by that I mean the high purchase price of new EVs and the purchase and installation of a charger (this is where government subsidies should be aimed).
Every technology has its day and there are signs that EV tech is getting there just waiting for some battery technology and for Chinese manufacturers to frighten the life out of the traditional auto makers.
That's a very pessimistic view. In the real world battery prices are falling all the time, so the shortening of battery cycle argument will become less important. Also it will be very difficult for governments to increase taxing EV charging without taxing home consumption. If they try, people will simply charge either from a 32 amp plug at 3kw (same as an immersion heater) or people will get solar panels and charge from their surplus, or a combination of the two. Also the potential grid balancing potential of v2g is so positive, governments would be very foolish to disincentivise it.
@jlcTTT Trouble is HMRC is hooked on motoring taxes like a drug and will look to replace fuel duty revenue through "carbon taxes" Battery tech will get there but takes longer than needed just like Fusion.
My point is the current tax subsidies BIK salary sacrifice will not survive very long as EV become more commonplace and price parity nears and the only car makers likely left standing for mass market are likely to be Chinese and that I do not want.
On the flip side, I ensure I avoid venues / places / businesses that advocate favouritism and discrimination on their customer base, depending on their vehicle type, and letting some have free fuel.
If most apply this logic it will ensure that free-loading EV owners are the ones actually paying for their charging, because their 'free' charging will actually be included in a higher charge for the service being provided.
Just like Santa and tooth fairies, there is no magic money tree. Some are just more easily manipulated in certain directions, by greedy people and businesses, by their illusions.
Supply and demand mate. Sorry.
Is free charging such a good deal? I suppose it partly depends on how many miles you drive per day.
I haven't done the maths, but I'd guess that you could earn more by charging your car from solar or at cheap rate, and powering your house from your car. You could then sell excess energy back to the grid at peak rate.
And don't some UK energy companies have schemes in which they pay pounds per kWh during periods of exceptional demand?
Has anyone done the maths on this, or have experience themselves?
From what I understand, whether you have Octopus Power Pack (the free EV charging deal) or not, this will not effect any surplus generation you are exporting and getting an export tariff for. They have an info page on their website. And it's peak times morning and evening when you will be giving v2g, when you are much less likely to have surplus solar power to export, whilst charging your EV will be at night, so I think solar will be perfectly compatible.
Local Hotels that do free Charging = The best place to stay for EV Drivers I love them.
Air BNB Ev Charging Filter has never worked well for me.
The people who Advertise they have an EV Charger is not really always true.
I can't have a home charger.
The cheapest charger near me is 79p kWh. Lets just say I fully charge a 64kWh car. It's going to cost me £50.56. For that I should get around 280 miles.
The cost of petrol near me at the moment is £1.40lt. I would get over 70lts. In fact I can't get 70lts in my car. But a full tank I can get over 400 miles.
Go on say it You never charge the car to full. And I very rarely fill my car.
So how car running an electric car work out cheaper. Don't forget from next April you've got road tax to pay. That's not including the extra you have to pay on insurance.
'Theres a snag' - Yeh, do you fancy buying a crap old car and a four thousand pound charger for "free" charging? FWIW i spent £250 on home charging to do 10k miles last year. So just the charger alone would be a 16 year payback. Of course you might do 20k or 30k miles a year but then you won't be using an old Leaf ! As for V2G from Kia, Hyundai etc are you sure? Or are you referring to the 2kW to 3kW AC output they can produce? Which isn't V2G.
My charger was £350. And same price for 10000 miles as you. Petrol car cost was £1300 for same mileage. And servicing- which the ev didn’t need much.
@@powdamunki this special bidirectional charger is £3,800. And that may not include fitting.
Here’s an idea. Buy an old battery and use that to trade energy trade!
The newer kias/hyhundais going forward such as the Kia ev9 have v2g. Personally I wouldn't touch v2g with a bargepole even if you paid me, nevermind 'free'.
Ford lightning pickup has V2G charging. It may be worth the price just to get free charging.
Hotels are missing a trick by not offering EV charging, especially Tesla destination chargers.
Would everyone who can take advantage of this offer please put their hands up....., lots of "free" advertising for Octopus is probably a better way of looking at the reason behind launching this scheme.
They’re installing 350kW chargers yet nobody can charge at this speed. It’s called future proofing. We will see many more EVs this year and some of them will have V2G.
Businesses will catch on: free charging brings in customers. And the cost for the company is Frunkin’ marginal. Progress: Slow. But Shirley ❤️
BTIYISH gas gives 2290 kw free, not whole year
If you can get electricity for free......why can't we get petrol or diesel for FREE ??
It's there.....underground....
Hello mate
I bet nobody realises that electricity doesnt actually weigh anything 😮
the V2G vehicles don't exist. Ant that's because the protocol itself hasn't been defined. The British Gases of the world will do all they can to prevent that.
Technically one could come up with an adapter that uses the current V2Load and modulate the power to maket it into a power exchanging system. But let's just say that I wouldn't do it on my own 20k vehicle. I would happily experiment on someone else's 😂
V2G. Give it 2 years and it will be everywhere. Too costly till then.
😂😂😂😂😂. You don’t queue for 45 minutes though!
Is it true that EV sales are tanking.
No. You have been eagerly lapping up fossil fuel company propaganda. EVs are now 20% of the new market in the UK and rapidly increasing.
This is only for three cars that use Chadamo 😂
We have had 9.5 yrs free
We are constantly being told there is already plenty of availability on the National Grid to charge all the cars in the country when they are electric, so why would we need V2G when we have smart charging? Apart from the very very limited choice of vehicles compatible, and the up front cost of installing the necessary hardware at a multiple thousands cost for each unit (payback for which could take years) what effect would this have on battery longevity. 356 V2G cycles at (guessing) 5 hours per day equates to an additional equivalent battery usage of 48,000 miles per year. All concealed from an unwary buyer when the car next comes to market as this would be the petrol equivalent to winding back the mileometer. I personally wouldn’t go near a car that had been used for V2G if it were to be adopted but I doubt it will, as anyone who does any sort of risk/benefit analysis can see how unattractive this really is to the EV owner.
Not multiple thousands. Solar panel inverters are panel to grid and are not very expensive nowadays.
It has capacity, but this is a chance to iron out the peaks
Look at grid watch or similar... Peaks cost the big £££££ to service
Did it not occur that Tesco withdrew FREE charging due to the abuse by selfish drivers 'camped' for the day with picnics, flasks and TV apps to hog the chargers all day.
I got sick to the back teeth of arriving at a charger at 10am to find all chargers taken, only to return 5 hours later with the same cars parked.
It was taking the P and unsustainable. Abused and withdrawn, what other option did they have?
To see 6x DPD vans parked overnight taking free charging where no one else could get near. I wrote to the CEO of DPD as Leyland Tesco, you could forget charging due to two everynight DPD drivers, a Tesla and one of two expensive Mercs or BMW.
Many a night I pulled a vehicle off a charger and stretched a cable to mine parked behind.
Selfish abuse of a good thing a few ruined!!!
Let's get real. To charge a 60 kWh battery with a 7 kW charging station will take 8.5 hours to fully charge. Try taking you eV on vacation, say about 400 miles away and the agony starts. Yes, if there are no hills, you don't turn the air conditioner or heater on. Don't run out of charge anywhere or the real fun starts. My car, a KIA Forte will travel 460 mile on a fill, and I can use the A/C, heater and lights at night. The fill up takes 5 minutes and I am on my way. Oh yes, those hills and motorway driving is not problem. eV enthusiasts are delusional, and very bad evangelists for folk who drive gas or diesel cars. Those multi-thousand dollar batteries are the weakness of the whole system. Conclusion: don't listen to this guy and keep you sanity!
And the chinese or the Russians will find it so easy to destroy our Electric grid. It's scary how they be able to cyber attack using the EVs and Smart metering. Already some Chinese chargers have been found to be lacking in security and would be vulnerable to attack.
Don't be daft. You have zero idea what you are on about.
This dude looks entirely trustworthy and not at all sone kind of shill.
Maybe if you need free charging you cant afford to buy a BMW EV
I would rather pay £100 per tank full of diesell than have free electric
Sounds you would rather have a hole in the head than not.
So we shell out £30+k to save a bit driving around to find a free charger or we book a table at a restaurant and book into a hotel shelling out a few hundred quid to get a free top up. Maybe you’re just to smug, bragging about your lifestyle to realise there’s a cost of living crisis for most. Most but not you!