Is there any way I can see or here this discussion. I have listened to the listening society on Audible since watching this video and I'd like to hear Jared's analysis.
I don’t remember where I first heard the term “thought-terminating cliche” (might have been a wisecrack video), but it seems to cover the most egregious versions of these memes. If it’s meant to terminate thought/discussion rather than to convince someone to rethink a position or expand understanding, its probably not a good argument. I think we all fall prey to it now and again, I know I do, especially in a TL/DR internet.
Hey Jared, I just want you to know I look forward to your videos all the time and that when I see you've posted I watch it right away. Your viewership may be lower than some of these bigger channels, but I would rather see your content before anyone else. please keep it up, you're a brilliant mind and I appreciate your insight on these topics!
This is a really great video, Jared. I think this concept of reviewing cultural political/ideological memes is not only fascinating but is really enlightening, too. I hope you turn this into a regular event!
Jared, i found you again yesterday. What a breath of fresh air man. Everytime I put on wisecrack I remember what was lost and drew me in first. Anyway, glad you’re doing better
Meme review! Meme review! Meme review!!! *claps hands*... Maybe this shouldn't be a series. Instead, let's just have a looped video with Jared's head in his hands for 10+ hours asking 'why???"
A Chinese sci-fi book got me to see this stuff a different way. Like.. I think the majority of these memes are made just to fuck with people. To distill it down to something dumb and basic, it keeps people fighting each other. And it keeps people fighting each other how these memes tell people to do it. And it works. I notice this in a big way for the first time with how Boyega's character was treated by Disney. It was clear racism where everyone who is black saw it, Boyega spoke up.... but the memes told people to ONLY care about hypothetical racist fans. Never to look ing Disneys direction. And it worked. These do the same thing. They keep the fights happening in disengenuious ways in one way that can not reach a resolution because both sides see the dumb down illusion memes say exist. And I don't see a way of undoing this. The book series is called, Three Body Problem.
I saw someone bringing up the Three Body Problem and Star Wars and was like 'Huh' this sounds oddly like a dude I know. And behold, it was that same dude. The Internet is a small place.
Hey Jared just wanted to clarify something about gender ideology : Yes you're right in saying that any movement in politics will be ideological, so simply calling it an "ideology" in itself is not an argument against it, however when it comes to the entire transgenderism debate, one ideology in based on false premises and lies (the idea that men and women are interchangeable, thanks to a constant juggling with the terminology and definitions of what a "man" or "woman" actually is). You've said that acknowledging a difference between sex and gender doesn't refute gender ideology, however almost every person who claims to be a part of this movement says "trans-women are women". The problem is with their definition of man and woman, they refuse to link it with "male" and "female" because that would mean your gender identity is only a self-perceived notion of identity and not a part of reality, which would deny them the "rights" they're desperate to have such as using the toilets they want or competing in their preferred sports categories. So I would say the meme with the electrician works because of course we know people aren't complaining about plugs, but their reasoning is similar : they refuse to acknowledge that reality is observed, not assigned. You don't "decide" which plug is male or female, that's just how electrical currents work.
I absolutely LOVE that you don't pick sides on this issue. You clearly are a man of principles and will criticize literally ANYBODY for over-sensationalizing an opposing viewpoint or being blatantly misinformed.
Growing up I liked Superman but never thought he was real. I would be a danger if I expected others to believe that he was and insisted you live by my expectations of that fictional character.
Fourth meme is just calling out the large portion of radical left people who unironically call for political revolution (a necessarily violent act) yet stump for gun control, the very things that they would need to carry out such a revolution.
9:32 the aim of progress is to debunk ideologies in pursuit of discerning the reality that was obscured by ideological narratives beforehand. that's how science made us discern that humans share genes with other living beings and thus are all related. whereas prior ideologies portrayed humans as superior to other living beings through having been created by a divine being
7:20 none of it is consistent, on either side. From Parade magazine : "ASK MARILYN - Is It Inappropriate to Refer to Electrical Cords and Sockets as 'Male' and 'Female'? ""
I think Patton Oswald's tweet was more about those people who cite the bible in every f*cking argument. If I was talking about how capitalism sucks and someone quoted star wars it would be ridiculous but for some reason quoting the bible, like that shit really happened, is supposed to be based.
Re: the Patton Oswald thing, his post wasn’t saying to not turn to the Bible for moral guidance or inspiration. He specifically said creating laws based on it. Surprised you missed that important distinction, Jared.
The point of almost every single one of Patton Oswalt's tweets is "I watch Rick and Morty". Jared said it himself... "slam dunk-ification". I don't really have a problem with internet banter, it's pretty fun, but I honestly believe someone should tie Patton Oswalt to a chair and force him to watch his own stand up until his ears bleed lmao
In other words youre upset that he he crticized a meme you liked , since you didnt have an issue with him dunking on right wing memes. Me personally, I think meme reviews themselves are stupid because they tend to be "analyzed" , they are about visceral humor and emotion due to ideas and events embodied in images. Not neccesarliy always factual
You've done a decent job of exposing some inconsistencies here, but this analysis lacks a class perspective. These kind of bad faith divisions are important to expose, but you should also make the point that this divisiveness is pushed in order to divide the working class. Memes like these get people to bicker among themselves over misunderstandings and nonsense. When we expose memes like these for lacking perspective, we should give the perspective that is missing. We should point out that we need to overcome the misunderstandings and nonsense to unite around class politics.
I think you've missed the point or the context on the Patton thing: he's not saying you can't pull morality or ethics from fiction. He's saying you can't use it to make laws in a 21st century developed country. It's a reason for a position, not the entire justification, and the people he's talking to that disagree with that sentiment are numerous, real, and in positions of power.
I think this criticism misses the point of his criticism. Jared operates on the assumption that the bible is fictitious, and so the fantastical elements of the bible are of no consequence insofar as they imbue moral sentiment. If moral sentiment is the chief concern, then its age is also of no consequence as A) age neither equates to truth nor untruth and B) the philosophical, moral, and cultural canons include extremely old and sometimes antiquated works that still are viewed as holding universal value despite sometimes having egregious scientific inaccuracies and regressive social views. Therefore it misses the point of trying to dismantle religiously held moral maxims of the absurdity of the historical claims of its source. And this is even outright ignoring the role of history and philosophy in the construction of modern religions (i.e. religious moral convictions are often about way more than the sacred text).
3:30 Forgive me if I'm wrong, but deliberately excluding black vets sounds like a institutional system problem, so is it not CRT? It sounds like a law problem, which is CRT, is it not?
One thing, about at least a few of those memes: 1 - About the Jesus was born of a virgin so abstinence can't be 100% effective. I don't think that actually qualifies as an anti-christian meme, I've seen it passed around Christian groups many times. It's more of a nodding wink at scripture than a take down. 2 - The good things make you alt-right isn't specifically trying to posit that all alt-right people are super educated and healthy. The point is more of a lampooning of the left-wing tendancy to call things "gateways to the alt-right", it's been said about exercise, classical literature, etc. Etc. But it is also true that the meme maker probably doesn't know what modernism (or likely post-modernism) means.
I think the m/f plug one actually does somewhat stand, as 'proponents of "gender theory" ' routinely switch the gendered man/woman to the sex male/female. So unless they are going to be diligent and consistent, that meme is fair enough.
Former head of a humor outfit misunderstands the idea of jokes and conflates them with arguments. Same former head of a 'philosophy-minded' outfit then goes on to create falls equivalency about both the ways these ideas are expressed and the means by which they're expressed between two sides of a narrowly defined, dichomatic culture war. He does this while deriding cheap reductionism and cynicism. Am I doing this right?
I’ll take the criticism but I don’t think these memes are shared hundreds/thousands of times because they’re humorous. It’s an attempt to “own” the opposition by making them look like clowns. The “comedy” is, at best, clapter.
@@JaredBauer the gamification of political discourse has made real discussions nearly impossible. It just makes people angry and angry people are easily manipulated. That's what made Ben Shapiro so successful.
Hi thanks for the great content you make. I have an idea for new contents. Can you review other people lectures and ideas. For example jordan b Peterson or others i believe this reviews help us to have a better view on things and have a better thinking process
Hey man, don't you think it's incredibly stupid to focus on the way a person misrepresents CRT by suggesting it's a straw argument when that person is only defining it in the same terms it is being conveniently "misunderstood" by the people attacking it? Like, isn't there _enough_ evidence that trying to erase the sins of the past is the right-wing goal by now? You're telling me you don't think it was from the very beginning?
Is Jared taking memes too seriously ? Is he making deadpan meta-humor by pretending to take them too seriously ? Is he pretending to to make humor while actually trying to educate and inform ? I'm getting confused
Dang, it totally DOES sound satirical to do a deep-dive logical analysis of memes… Problem is, there ARE people who DO take these memes seriously. I’m pretty sure Jared is being genuine here. He’s showing examples of bad, logically unsound talking points that have been making the rounds lately, SPECIFICALLY because these are what people have been compelled to share. I think it’s a necessary endeavor, in a world where more folks are exposed to bite-sized political memes than any substantial reading.
Also jared - one of the biggest wings of the post-altrite are what could be called Reactionaries (capital R - denotes some ideological particularity, not just being reactive as the term is used by many in progressive and liberal spheres) and Traditionalists, and yes, they do oppose Modernism and Enlightenment Liberalism especially (and they are fully aware of the implications re constitutionalism, republicanism, etc) and Materialism (why they see liberal capitalism and marxism as both rival camps)
People wanting to cancel pepe le pew never acknowledge the full arc of his story always being unwanted affection/harassment coming back at him in karmic fashion
I watched a lot of looney toons as a kid. Pepe rarely, if ever, got comeuppance. There is no "full arc" of his story, it's not like the various episodes were serialized content. Most of the time the punchline was simply the discomfort of the cat, full stop.
@@keisukekun86 ya rhats part of it. He's so full of himself he thinks he's God's gift but he reeks, then something happens and the Cat chases him and he flees likewise how is that not full circle?
Jared is doing a BOOK CLUB on twitch live, right now, also on discord. Come ask him anything!
www.twitch.tv/kalsarikannit87
Also, welcome to the discord community discord.gg/y5HaqzUWVX
Is there any way I can see or here this discussion. I have listened to the listening society on Audible since watching this video and I'd like to hear Jared's analysis.
This should be a series.
Absolutely!
Nay, it should be a cinematic universe
Definitely. Would like to see more of this.
Yes please!
I don’t remember where I first heard the term “thought-terminating cliche” (might have been a wisecrack video), but it seems to cover the most egregious versions of these memes. If it’s meant to terminate thought/discussion rather than to convince someone to rethink a position or expand understanding, its probably not a good argument. I think we all fall prey to it now and again, I know I do, especially in a TL/DR internet.
Ian Danskin perhaps?
Robert Jay Lifton in his 1961 book "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism"
Hey Jared, I just want you to know I look forward to your videos all the time and that when I see you've posted I watch it right away. Your viewership may be lower than some of these bigger channels, but I would rather see your content before anyone else. please keep it up, you're a brilliant mind and I appreciate your insight on these topics!
As someone who watches most things in the background-if this makes becomes a series, I would appreciate a brief audio description of each meme.
This is a really great video, Jared. I think this concept of reviewing cultural political/ideological memes is not only fascinating but is really enlightening, too. I hope you turn this into a regular event!
Really excellent. Thank you Jared
Jared, i found you again yesterday. What a breath of fresh air man. Everytime I put on wisecrack I remember what was lost and drew me in first.
Anyway, glad you’re doing better
Jared, you must love the "When keeping it Real goes wrong" sketch on The Chappelle show.
Ive never wanted more for someone to keep explaining the joke to me this is so great
Meme review! Meme review! Meme review!!! *claps hands*...
Maybe this shouldn't be a series.
Instead, let's just have a looped video with Jared's head in his hands for 10+ hours asking 'why???"
Some of those strike me more as jokes than arguments for a position, but then again, I have underestimated how seriously people treat stuff before :)
A Chinese sci-fi book got me to see this stuff a different way. Like.. I think the majority of these memes are made just to fuck with people. To distill it down to something dumb and basic, it keeps people fighting each other.
And it keeps people fighting each other how these memes tell people to do it.
And it works.
I notice this in a big way for the first time with how Boyega's character was treated by Disney. It was clear racism where everyone who is black saw it, Boyega spoke up.... but the memes told people to ONLY care about hypothetical racist fans.
Never to look ing Disneys direction.
And it worked.
These do the same thing. They keep the fights happening in disengenuious ways in one way that can not reach a resolution because both sides see the dumb down illusion memes say exist.
And I don't see a way of undoing this.
The book series is called, Three Body Problem.
I saw someone bringing up the Three Body Problem and Star Wars and was like 'Huh' this sounds oddly like a dude I know.
And behold, it was that same dude. The Internet is a small place.
@@TSDT Do you have a similar name on Facebook? :D
.. You know this is basic marxism right? Like that's a very basic concept of marxism...
I guessed the name as soon as you said Chinese Sci-fi book.
Yup, the internet is a terrible place.
Hey Jared just wanted to clarify something about gender ideology : Yes you're right in saying that any movement in politics will be ideological, so simply calling it an "ideology" in itself is not an argument against it, however when it comes to the entire transgenderism debate, one ideology in based on false premises and lies (the idea that men and women are interchangeable, thanks to a constant juggling with the terminology and definitions of what a "man" or "woman" actually is). You've said that acknowledging a difference between sex and gender doesn't refute gender ideology, however almost every person who claims to be a part of this movement says "trans-women are women". The problem is with their definition of man and woman, they refuse to link it with "male" and "female" because that would mean your gender identity is only a self-perceived notion of identity and not a part of reality, which would deny them the "rights" they're desperate to have such as using the toilets they want or competing in their preferred sports categories. So I would say the meme with the electrician works because of course we know people aren't complaining about plugs, but their reasoning is similar : they refuse to acknowledge that reality is observed, not assigned. You don't "decide" which plug is male or female, that's just how electrical currents work.
I absolutely LOVE that you don't pick sides on this issue. You clearly are a man of principles and will criticize literally ANYBODY for over-sensationalizing an opposing viewpoint or being blatantly misinformed.
Love the connentary stuff Jared
Your explanation on CRT is why it frustrated me so much watching Wisecrack's take on it. 😅
Yeah I can’t even watch them anymore. Happily unsubscribed.
Same. I unsubscribed.
nice thoughtful video Jared!
Would love to see your review and hear your views on Matt Walsh's documentary "What is a Woman?" !
If he simply reviews it, or acknowledges it, that might be enough to trigger the PC Brigade. Might not be the best idea. But you never know.
@@DJTS1991 Unfortunately, at this point, anything can.
Hey Jared, great video as always!
Growing up I liked Superman but never thought he was real. I would be a danger if I expected others to believe that he was and insisted you live by my expectations of that fictional character.
You should do a sequel to this
This is my new favorite series on the internet!!!!!
You're a monster, love your video
Fourth meme is just calling out the large portion of radical left people who unironically call for political revolution (a necessarily violent act) yet stump for gun control, the very things that they would need to carry out such a revolution.
9:32
the aim of progress is to debunk ideologies in pursuit of discerning the reality that was obscured by ideological narratives beforehand. that's how science made us discern that humans share genes with other living beings and thus are all related. whereas prior ideologies portrayed humans as superior to other living beings through having been created by a divine being
so we should attempt to rid ourselves of all ideology
and our societies as well
7:20 none of it is consistent, on either side.
From Parade magazine :
"ASK MARILYN - Is It Inappropriate to Refer to Electrical Cords and Sockets as 'Male' and 'Female'? ""
loving this video! cheers
I think Patton Oswald's tweet was more about those people who cite the bible in every f*cking argument. If I was talking about how capitalism sucks and someone quoted star wars it would be ridiculous but for some reason quoting the bible, like that shit really happened, is supposed to be based.
I'd argue that a book that has influenced society's improvement and progression for hundreds of years is based.
Jared dunks on the dunkers
Hey! It's "billboard Chris!"
Make this a little more stylised, add a couple side cuts to quotes or other philosophers, and this format has ctazy potential
Re: the Patton Oswald thing, his post wasn’t saying to not turn to the Bible for moral guidance or inspiration. He specifically said creating laws based on it. Surprised you missed that important distinction, Jared.
Jared's Enlightened centrism is the most cringe inducing part of this video
I'm surprised Jared missed the entire point of Patton's tweet.
Same. The tweet seemed very specific to legislation, not discussing morals in mythology.
The point of almost every single one of Patton Oswalt's tweets is "I watch Rick and Morty".
Jared said it himself... "slam dunk-ification". I don't really have a problem with internet banter, it's pretty fun, but I honestly believe someone should tie Patton Oswalt to a chair and force him to watch his own stand up until his ears bleed lmao
I am surprised that people still defend Patton as if he still relevant or funny
In other words youre upset that he he crticized a meme you liked , since you didnt have an issue with him dunking on right wing memes. Me personally, I think meme reviews themselves are stupid because they tend to be "analyzed" , they are about visceral humor and emotion due to ideas and events embodied in images. Not neccesarliy always factual
You've done a decent job of exposing some inconsistencies here, but this analysis lacks a class perspective. These kind of bad faith divisions are important to expose, but you should also make the point that this divisiveness is pushed in order to divide the working class. Memes like these get people to bicker among themselves over misunderstandings and nonsense. When we expose memes like these for lacking perspective, we should give the perspective that is missing. We should point out that we need to overcome the misunderstandings and nonsense to unite around class politics.
Is this satire?
Great video ;)
Read the memes aloud. Hard to keep up without the context when I am listening!
I think you've missed the point or the context on the Patton thing: he's not saying you can't pull morality or ethics from fiction. He's saying you can't use it to make laws in a 21st century developed country. It's a reason for a position, not the entire justification, and the people he's talking to that disagree with that sentiment are numerous, real, and in positions of power.
I think this criticism misses the point of his criticism. Jared operates on the assumption that the bible is fictitious, and so the fantastical elements of the bible are of no consequence insofar as they imbue moral sentiment. If moral sentiment is the chief concern, then its age is also of no consequence as A) age neither equates to truth nor untruth and B) the philosophical, moral, and cultural canons include extremely old and sometimes antiquated works that still are viewed as holding universal value despite sometimes having egregious scientific inaccuracies and regressive social views. Therefore it misses the point of trying to dismantle religiously held moral maxims of the absurdity of the historical claims of its source. And this is even outright ignoring the role of history and philosophy in the construction of modern religions (i.e. religious moral convictions are often about way more than the sacred text).
I like the way you think about things
Awesome stuff
3:30 Forgive me if I'm wrong, but deliberately excluding black vets sounds like a institutional system problem, so is it not CRT? It sounds like a law problem, which is CRT, is it not?
fortune favors the real
Like watching a man on a wire.
One thing, about at least a few of those memes:
1 - About the Jesus was born of a virgin so abstinence can't be 100% effective. I don't think that actually qualifies as an anti-christian meme, I've seen it passed around Christian groups many times. It's more of a nodding wink at scripture than a take down.
2 - The good things make you alt-right isn't specifically trying to posit that all alt-right people are super educated and healthy. The point is more of a lampooning of the left-wing tendancy to call things "gateways to the alt-right", it's been said about exercise, classical literature, etc. Etc.
But it is also true that the meme maker probably doesn't know what modernism (or likely post-modernism) means.
Hey Jared, Shivang here. Big fan. That's all I had to say. Thank you.
Is it fair that most of these commit the fallacy of equivocation? Note that this doesn't exclude other, concurrent fallacies
For the modernism one, I'm thinking they mean high-modernism like Le Corbusier
No, they mean the Enlightenment.
7:20 is so dumb it's funny
Jared you look like soldier boy from the boys
I think the m/f plug one actually does somewhat stand, as 'proponents of "gender theory" ' routinely switch the gendered man/woman to the sex male/female. So unless they are going to be diligent and consistent, that meme is fair enough.
Lovely!
Former head of a humor outfit misunderstands the idea of jokes and conflates them with arguments. Same former head of a 'philosophy-minded' outfit then goes on to create falls equivalency about both the ways these ideas are expressed and the means by which they're expressed between two sides of a narrowly defined, dichomatic culture war. He does this while deriding cheap reductionism and cynicism. Am I doing this right?
(btw. I'm a fan. I just think this video is lazy, cynical BS)
I’ll take the criticism but I don’t think these memes are shared hundreds/thousands of times because they’re humorous. It’s an attempt to “own” the opposition by making them look like clowns. The “comedy” is, at best, clapter.
@@JaredBauer the gamification of political discourse has made real discussions nearly impossible. It just makes people angry and angry people are easily manipulated. That's what made Ben Shapiro so successful.
Yeah everything is an Ideology because Humans invented the things we believe in, they don't exist outside of us.
Hi thanks for the great content you make. I have an idea for new contents. Can you review other people lectures and ideas. For example jordan b Peterson or others i believe this reviews help us to have a better view on things and have a better thinking process
I dunno man, several of those don't really seem to be trying to make a deep political or philosophical point, as much as just having a bit of fun.
Commenting.
what i got from all of this is that Jared doesnt get memes. I mean he is taking this stuff wayyyy too literally. That is not the point
Internet discourse has severely from the days when it was just nerds talking amongst themselves on heavily modded forums.
A lot of these are just jokes that you didn't seem to get. Lighten up dude.
Hey man, don't you think it's incredibly stupid to focus on the way a person misrepresents CRT by suggesting it's a straw argument when that person is only defining it in the same terms it is being conveniently "misunderstood" by the people attacking it? Like, isn't there _enough_ evidence that trying to erase the sins of the past is the right-wing goal by now? You're telling me you don't think it was from the very beginning?
This
Is Jared taking memes too seriously ? Is he making deadpan meta-humor by pretending to take them too seriously ? Is he pretending to to make humor while actually trying to educate and inform ?
I'm getting confused
Dang, it totally DOES sound satirical to do a deep-dive logical analysis of memes… Problem is, there ARE people who DO take these memes seriously.
I’m pretty sure Jared is being genuine here. He’s showing examples of bad, logically unsound talking points that have been making the rounds lately, SPECIFICALLY because these are what people have been compelled to share. I think it’s a necessary endeavor, in a world where more folks are exposed to bite-sized political memes than any substantial reading.
yep, he doesnt get memes. Its really that simple.
A friend of mine who has a transgender parent often gets confused about which end of cables are male and which are female. Coincidence?
Also jared - one of the biggest wings of the post-altrite are what could be called Reactionaries (capital R - denotes some ideological particularity, not just being reactive as the term is used by many in progressive and liberal spheres) and Traditionalists, and yes, they do oppose Modernism and Enlightenment Liberalism especially (and they are fully aware of the implications re constitutionalism, republicanism, etc) and Materialism (why they see liberal capitalism and marxism as both rival camps)
People wanting to cancel pepe le pew never acknowledge the full arc of his story always being unwanted affection/harassment coming back at him in karmic fashion
I watched a lot of looney toons as a kid. Pepe rarely, if ever, got comeuppance. There is no "full arc" of his story, it's not like the various episodes were serialized content. Most of the time the punchline was simply the discomfort of the cat, full stop.
@@keisukekun86 Lol Pepe's arc? Wtf? 🤣🤣
@@keisukekun86 ya rhats part of it. He's so full of himself he thinks he's God's gift but he reeks, then something happens and the Cat chases him and he flees likewise how is that not full circle?